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@MisterChris
Keep thy serpentine tongue behind thy teeth, thou puny bat-fowling fustilarian! Hon'r'bly have I treated thee, yet thou hast spewed forth a bitt'r torrent of vitriol and calumny. Thy language shalt surely wither thy mother, anger thy father, and smite thy grandmother with its cruel venom. Nary a curse have I spit at thee, but thou dost spit them with beastly ferocity. Verily, thou beest a mere idol of idiot-worshippers. The virtuous look upon your curs's and mock thy utter folly. Begone, ere I draw my sword and usher thee hence!
With a little help from the Shakespearean Insulter.
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@Barney
My mind went to mafia roles, which normally block people at night, not during the day (it'd be really weird to have Lunatic try using a day power, only for Drafter to have likewise used a day block...). Hence, a moment of confusion.
That would be funny if that actually happened in a game.
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@Barney
That's an interesting idea. You might be right. I don't block people, so I wouldn't know.
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@Barney
The moderator didn't realize what blocking was? What's this site coming to?
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@Barney
@Intelligence_06
Are you two planning on voting this DP?
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@Speedrace
MisterChris is on both VTNL and drafter! A doublevoter!
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@drafterman
First you tell me I should lynch my scum read, then you tell me I should no lynch because my only scum read was you. Picky, picky, picky.
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@drafterman
You could, but it would require a better option. If you've got one, I'd be glad to hear it.
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@drafterman
I agree. I think Speed learned his lesson about balancing games. I'm sure that we'll have at least one mislynch available.
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@drafterman
The only exception to your post was the MCU Civil War mafia. I highly doubt Speed was that careless this time.
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@MisterChris
It would bring us to MYLO immediately, yes. However, drafter's right. No lynching here won't give us any more mislynches. We will end up using the mislynch this round or next round, unless we hit scum. We don't necessarily have to use the mislynch this DP. It will still be available next DP. However, it won't be available after that unless scum doesn't shoot the lovers.
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@Intelligence_06
That's a good idea! Now why didn't anyone think of that before?
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@MisterChris
Yea, verily, and just so.
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@MisterChris
The only situation in which I would recommend not using a mislynch is if you lynch scum every time.
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@MisterChris
Verily, thou art art wise. Her Majesty's English is a noble tongue. 'Tis truly a pity th't the common folk have forsaken it.
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@drafterman
Also, mathematically, "saving" mislynches doesn't really work because you lose available mislynches as the game progresses.Consider a vanilla scenario where town has two mislynches before reaching MYLO. Ex: 6 town, 2 mafia. If town no lynches, maf kills making it 5 town, 2 mafia. You now have two lynches until LYLO. Another NL and you lose that ML forever.So if you think we have one available mislynch, now is the time to use it
+1
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@MisterChris
The only reason we can't mislynch is because the lovers have been exposed.
If scum shoots the lovers, that still leaves us one mislynch, so it isn't true that we can't mislynch. It's just that we can only afford to do it once.
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@drafterman
If I'm your scum lead then I'm your scum lead. Why NOT push for my lynch?
I'm a lot less of decisive player than you are. But as you pointed out earlier, time's running out. I only have a slight scum read on you, but that's more than I have on anyone else.
Though, tbh, if my actions don't match any particular meta that should be a null read but you read how you read I suppose.
That depends on how the actions in question differ from your usual meta. In this case, jumping from lynch to lynch like a rubber ball seems suspicious to me.
But if you're unwilling to lynch your top scum read, how do you suppose the game ends in a success for town?
Good point. Well, you've convinced me. VTL drafterman. You're probably town, but there's a higher chance that you're scum than anyone else in my opinion.
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@drafterman
You're actually my main suspect right now, but that says more about my lack of scum reads than anything else. As I mentioned above, you seem to be uncharacteristically desperate for a lynch - any lynch. It doesn't match your town meta, at least not that I remember. It also doesn't match your scum meta, which has me puzzled.
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@Lunatic
Except his reasons for thinking those people were scumming were trash and it would have been preferable to NL in those cases. His poor play is in continuing to push for bad lynches rather than not lynching at all. - Town drafterman, from the office mafia endgameSo if town drafter agrees that no lynching was preferable to bad lynches yet this drafter wants to lynch whoever, on basically whatever justification, am I safe to assume this drafter is not the same affiliation as that drafter? Keep in mind he basically agrees with me earlier that the miller wagon was ridiculous because of how frequently millers are included in the game. He added reasons to lynch skittlez much later but at that point skittlez seemed several peoples ideal mislynch.
That's interesting. I've been getting suspicious about drafter ever since he switched his vote to oromagi just minutes after you suggested that oro might be scum only to switch it back when it was obvious that wagon wasn't going anywhere. Drafter seems really desperate for any lynch that isn't himself. It's odd, and it's making me suspicious. I think a mafia drafter would be more careful, though.
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@Barney
At this point I am trying to think of this as a second DP1.
What's that supposed to mean?
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@drafterman
Lynching even a miss Lynch doesn't really hurt town in terms of numbers cuz it actually makes it easier to find the remaining scum by increasing the base probability that any given player is scum. Combined with results and analysis you are more likely to find scum when there is more scum to find. The only time it hurts town is when we lose a power roll. This is why lynching the Miller is the ideal lynch. We don't lose a power roll, instead we are losing an anti-town roll. If anything this improves the situation for town.
This is true to a certain extent. It is easier to catch scum with fewer people in the game. It is also true that lynching a miller doesn't substantially hurt town. If skittlez gets lynched, it's probably not a big deal. However, I'm not convinced that those are good reasons to lynch someone I think is town.
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To lynch or not to lynch, that is the question. If we lynch, then mafia could shoot the lovers, and DP2 would be MYLO. If we don't lynch, then we have no chance of killing scum this DP, but it wouldn't be MYLO next DP. Either way, scum is in the driver's seat thanks to the lovers. If they want to set us on the course for MYLO, they can do it whatever we do.
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@MisterChris
Yeah, but he is, so we'll have to put up with it.
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@MisterChris
oh LOL. I totally forgot Intel was lover with Supa *facepalm*Yeah you're right. On second thought we shouldn't.
I just went through the same thought process. Intel has been so inactive that I forgot he was playing.
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@drafterman
That's not strictly true. Bullish was able to start, push, and achieve my lynch in DP1 of the MCU Civil War game in less than 24 hours, although it ultimately didn't go through thanks to inaccurate vote counts along the way. I do see your point, however. Time is running out, so if I want a lynch I need to start soon. But I just don't have the time to do that right now.
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@drafterman
Quick question: As of the time of the posting of this post right here, how much time do you think you have available to decide?
25 hours and 5 minutes, although I'm hoping to reach a decision before then.
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@drafterman
Read it in context.
oro said: I don't mind lynching but none of the three claims seem like viable targets for the reasons I've given. We need someone else to target for some reason not yet offered.I agree with this. Regardless, there are two days left in the DP. No need to rush to a decision.
My objection to lynching at that moment was not based on time, but rather on that I agreed with oro that the three claimed players weren't good targets. When I said that we didn't need to rush to a decision, I wasn't making an objection to lynching. I was simply stating the obvious fact that we had more time to find someone who was a good target.
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@drafterman
I think you're getting a bit defensive there. Chris questioned your read on Lunatic, and you spent most of your post defending yourself.
My primary issue with Sir (and later Lunatic's) stance is that the only reason they've presented for not lynching is that there exists more time....If you can't decide on a lynch yet. Fine. But Sir didn't say that. In fact, Sir explicitly agreed with lynching someone. The only objection to lynching provided at that point was: the day phase still has time left.
Incorrect. My stance was never that we shouldn't lynch because there is more time. My stance was that I didn't scum read anyone so I couldn't decide on who to lynch.
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@drafterman
Lunatic's advocated for DP1 vtnl's in the past when he doesn't have any strong scum reads. I get your point, but I don't find it very convincing in the light of his past behavior.
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@n8nrgmi
May I humbly suggest that calling people nuts, telling them that they're denying the obvious and ignoring the science, telling them that you already know their answers will be nonsense, talking down to them, and making it clear that you are unquestionably right and that they are unquestionably wrong is only going to entrench people in their positions and shut down productive dialogue before it even has a chance to start? I'm not trying to be rude in any way, but if you're trying to change minds, the tone of your OP ensures that you will fail.
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@Barney
One accomplishment I am happy for, is getting him to put himself in the top of town, instead of the graveyard.
That's pretty funny.
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@Vader
His analysis hasn't been lacking any information
That compliment almost makes me uncomfortable. How can my analysis not lack information? There's too much info to include it all.
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@Vader
Your read list says so.
While Ragnar does add on some info, I'm pretty sure he just C/Ps those from oro. I could be wrong, though.
1) Drafterman's play is becoming more and more subpar and bandwagony. He keeps justifying wagons and tries to hop on wagons. He's also posting some fluff (which isn't a scum read), but it clogs up the DP to the point where it makes townie disinterested2) Oromagi's use of hypothetical is oromagi town play, but this time I read him at fishing for a lynch on either Intel or I. Maybe to get himself an advantage. The notion is out there, but it seems to be such a high risk, low reward payout, that it makes no sense to do such thing.
I've noticed those as well. It isn't enough to make me scum read them yet, but I'm keeping an eye on them.
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@Lunatic
That's true. Now that I think about it, an inactive Supa is a little concerning. It's only been 1.5 days, though.
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@Lunatic
It would be nice if there was more activity
Someone hasn't looked at the page number in a few hours.
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@drafterman
@Barney
Town, but I don't believe for a second that that actually happened.
No, but it was such a desperately long shot that it deserved to work.
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@Intelligence_06
How about be active and participate rather than wait and see?
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@MisterChris
Enjoy. There may even be something slightly relevant.
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@Lunatic
@drafterman
At this point I kinda feel like laughing at you two from the peanut gallery. You're both good players and you don't dislike each other, but every time you're in a game together, you start arguing and accusing each other of misrepresentation.
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@drafterman
That was actually kinda funny, although I doubt you meant it to be. Why your personal opinions of how good you are at mafia has any bearing on who's right is beyond me. To be clear, I respect both of you as competent mafia players. But frankly put, I fail to see why I should pick a side. Both of your ideas work in some situations and not others. There doesn't need to be a black and white answer to this debate.
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@Lunatic
Maybe if I play for twenty years and work hard on improving. The level of behavioral analysis required to do that is well beyond me.
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@Lunatic
Heh. I don't think I'm ever going to be in a list like that.
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