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Did you miss my post where I quoted what God said in Genesis? In case you didn't see it the first time...Genesis 3:17-19“Cursed is the ground because of you;through painful toil you will eat food from itall the days of your life.18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,and you will eat the plants of the field.19 By the sweat of your browyou will eat your fooduntil you return to the ground,since from it you were taken;for dust you areand to dust you will return.”While this is spoken directly to Adam, this curse applies to the whole human race. How do I know this? It's simple, really. I know this because everyone dies, not just Adam.
Nope. I ignored it and told you to learn your bible or did you miss that? Here you are #38
You are either stupid or blind or you cannot understand the question.
How many times do I have to pose it? 'In case you didn't see it the first time or the second or the third '...
Where in the OT does god condemn all children to death for sin? Your Genesis quote does not answer that simple question as much as you want it to. You can keep trying to ram that square peg into a round hole but it is not evidence.
There is nothing there about all mankind or all children for that matter. Yes we all die. whoopee do, clever you? Nature dictates who dies and when, it does not discriminate, unless ones life is taken deliberately as the god of the OT had a habit of doing for no apparent reason.
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@SirAnonymous
I showed you from Scripture where God said that everyone is evil from childhood and the the punishment for evil is death
Nope. You showed me a few psalms supposedly written by a man with something on his conscience i.e the outpourings of King David. This does not amount to evidence that god condemned all children to death for sin as much as you wish it to be so.
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@Dynasty
He try to use the "Is Jesus God of the old testsament" excuse. And, if you say yes to him, he would on around in cricles, and still cite Numbers 31 again.
That is because when it suits them, Jesus is god " The first and the Last, the alpha & Omega , the Beginning and the End, Now and Always", according to Christians..
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@SirAnonymous
I showed you from Scripture where God said that everyone is evil from childhood
I asked you to show me where god almighty himself condemned all children to death for sin. You haven't done so.
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@RoderickSpode
Their seems to be a number if people who make issue of the bible being written by fallible men.
Yes, men. Who tell us it was all the word of god or gods word, who isn't supposed to be fallible. Or are you disagreeing with the many here who are adamant that the bible is the word of god?
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@BrotherDThomas
Him murdering innocent zygotes, fetus' and babies......
innocent children as well! ......even murdering innocent babies......many innocent fetus'......
Well you appear to have lucked out biblically there brother. There are no innocent babies or innocent fetuses or innocent children according to
SirAnonymous at post #21 saying : You keep saying that these were "innocent" people or "innocent" children. However, according to the Bible, no one is innocent. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) Furthermore, the Bible also says, "For the wages of sin is death." (Romans 6:23) If we put 2 and 2 together, this means that everyone deserves death because everyone is a sinner. So if the Bible is true, then God is justified when he kills people.
I have asked for evidence showing that god himself condemned the innocent to death for sin. But is all I have had so far is filibustering and biblical claptrap and some very dodgy maths in response.
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@MisterChris
If you're going to cite a Wikipedia definition, don't cherry-pick.Discussions in incel forums are often characterized by resentment, misogyny, misanthropy, self-pity and self-loathing, racism, a sense of entitlement to sex, and the endorsement of violence against sexually active peopleBrotherD hits a lot of those boxes believe it or not.
So you pile on the personal attacks. And you, a moderator. Like I have said, I have been banned for far less.
you seem to care far more than he does.
I care about YOU being a moderator and able to break rules concerning personal attacks that you have set for others. But that of course has gone clean over your head.
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@SirAnonymous
Do you have any response to my post that contained that evidence?
Yes. It wasn't evidence.
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Sorry Stephen, I don't take your explanation as gospel.
What's new.
I never said God made the world in six days.
But your bible does? And according to you >>
The bible is God's word.
I assume you mean 24 hours days
And this is where you rewrite the bible and tell us that the bible doesn't mean days when it says "days", without providing the evidence that you proudly brag to "always produce" , when you never do
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@Tradesecret
The verse above is evidence for the proposition.
Well as much you want it to be evidence it isn't. I have explained that psalm 51 is simply the outpouring of man feeling guilt. What it isn't, is the evidence I asked for showing the lord god almighty himself condemning all children to death for sin.
So without your boring windbag filibustering, let us see the factual evidence that you brag often about producing.
And you still haven't come up with the evidence that your lord god almighty created the whole universe in only six days.
The bible is God's word.
Prove it
Tick tock, Tick tock, Tick tock, Tick tock
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@Tradesecret
5 Surely I was sinful at birth,sinful from the time my mother conceived me.So please explain how the baby is sinful in the womb if it is not inherited?
That's your job. You are claiming something I haven't claimed. Psalm 51 is traditionally claimed to have been composed by David as a confession to his god after he sinned with Bathsheba?
So this is Davids opinion and belief.
I haven't seen a verse yet from the almighty himself. So get to it.
Or will you just ignore this verse and pretend it is fake?
No. The verse is real, written by David human a very human being by all accounts. Yes this is David writing his own beliefs and feelings. this is not evidence that god condemned all children to death and btw, there is no evidence what-so- ever that king David wrote anything.
You are simply avoiding what I have asked for. show me where the OT god condemns all children to death for sin. I don't want the opinions or beliefs of biblical characters. I want factual evidence that god himself condemned all children to death.
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@Tradesecret
You continue on every occasion, EVERY OCCASION, to excuse the sinfulness of the humans .
That's simply not true. Where have done that? You just want me to agree that "sin" is inherited and all mankind is guilty of sin. But there is no evidence for that as much as you like to pretend that there is. Humans commit crimes and are punished without gods interference and double standards.
God is the biggest criminal in the whole of the bible.
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@SirAnonymous
What absolute claptrap. You need to learn how to read your bible.
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@zedvictor4
And most people want a quite life, but prophets and their disciples have a tendency to want to f**k things up.
10/10
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@SirAnonymous
You keep saying that these were "innocent" people or "innocent" children.
Where in the OT is it that god condemns all babies to death for sin.
However, according to the Bible, no one is innocent.
Indeed and we all know how contradictory the bible is, don't we?
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)
There are over 30 verses in the bible claiming people to be "innocent" and or "blameless".
blameless
adjective
Innocent of wrongdoing.
Were not Zechariah and Elizabeth said to have been blameless in the eyes of god? Or are you going to tell me that to be blameless in ancient times meant that Zechariah and Elizabeth were fond of threesomes and hard core porn?
Furthermore, the Bible also says, "For the wages of sin is death." (Romans 6:23)
What are the sins committed by first born children/babies?
If we put 2 and 2 together, this means that everyone deserves death because everyone is a sinner.
Try reading the psalms of David for instance and tell me who "the innocent" are that are being refereed to? And what about the Philippians?
"Prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach ".
How can anyone then, according to your maths, ever hope to " prove themselves innocent" when you and your maths say "everyone is a sinner."
So if the Bible is true,
Are you asking me or telling me?
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@Tradesecret
So you don't think any human has any personal responsibility for anything?
Of course I do you silly little man.
But what you don't want to understand or accept is that I wouldn't butcher your innocent children for something you may or may not have been responsible for. You are also ignoring the fact that the bible is clear as to why Pharaoh acted the way he did.
A wager is hardly a fitting description of what is going on here.
It was nothing short of a bet. Stop trying to play down and make this dreadful violent biblical episode anything less than what it was. It was sheer wanton violence for the sake of your gods ego and reputation.
I can back everything I say with evidence.
Not without lies and reinterpretation and putting words into the mouths of the authors and characters of the bible. You lot are all the fkn same. You like to talk and discuss what it is the bible never says.
I can back everything I say with evidence.
lets see you evidence for the existence of god. Lets us see your evidence of how god is supposed to have created the whole world and universe and all that is in it in only six days.
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Why did God kill all the firstborn of Egypt? Because Pharaoh, the ruler of Egypt would not obey God and let God's people go.
I see. So god himself, who admits to "hardening Pharaohs heart" so he couldn't think any other way, then takes Pharaohs refusal to "let the people go" out on innocent first born. What an absolute bastard!
Our God is the hero of the story. [of job]
At the cost of pain, misery and loss to Job, What an absolute bastard! Job 1:13-19
And all for a wager with Satan, who it was - by all accounts - god had sentenced to crawl on his belly eating dirt for the rest of his days for the crime of tempting Eve, Genesis 3:14 , but here he is , just "roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it" at will. Job 1:7. And able to converse with god even with his mouth full of dirt.
So you have watched many Christians paint themselves into corners? Wow! I have seen you do it frequently.
No you haven't. You seem to forgetting that - through all of your own holier than thou haughtiness, that I have nothing to defend. I simply pose people like you questions about what it is you have faith in. I then sit back and watch you attempt to defend the indefensible actions of the god that you have faith in. You also seem to forget that just because you have a strong faith in something, no matter how strong, doesn't make what you have faith in true. I will be honest, I sometimes envy those who have a genuine faith in a god and in particular an afterlife. But then I pull myself together.
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@Tradesecret
The Bible to help me love God better .............................So when a non-Christian throws what they think is a nasty mean part of the Bible at me, it actually allows me to reflect upon that passage to learn more about God and his Holy Character.
That would be go into full denial mode. Yes I have watched many Christians paint themselves into very tight corners trying to defend the indefensible, when it comes to unjust and willful and wanton acts of torture & murder by the god they say they "love"..
Why did god kill all the first born children of Egypt, including the first born of animals. What had those innocents done?
The Bible is a book that reflects life in all of its glory. It does not hide the messiness of life
It is a book of war and conflict from beginning to end, the killing simply does not stop!. So stop trying to play down this very cold fact, where a god forced his own dupes to do his dirty work for him most of the time.
It does not hide the messiness of life.
It doesn't hide the meanness or the unbalanced mental state of your god either, does it.
It is a very real book and sometimes hard book.
Yes indeed it is. And all the comes from your god. And for unprovoked reasons. What had Job - "gods most loyal servant " done to have all that pain and misery piled onto him ?
Anyone who can support such a monster is a monster themselves.
I think that adds to its character and integrity.
Yes it shows god in his true colours and as the mean spirited, murdering jealous god of war that the bible and god himself admits him to being.
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Turkey's President Erdogan turns another ancient Istanbul church into a mosque just a month after converting the city's famed Hagia Sophia into a place of Muslim worship.
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Well, I will choose to listen to Paul rather than you.
Then read Paul ffs! Your a fan of injecting what the bible doesn't mention into your arguments so try this: Paul doesn’t even mention the "miraculous" ascending into heaven event , no empty tombs, no disappearance from the grave of the physical body, no physical resurrection, no physical appearances of a Christ who would eat, or that Jesus was elevated physically into heaven after a given time. To Paul the body of Jesus who died was degradable, weak, and physical. IE Jesus was a man. Except to those who , like you want to believe those that made him a god.
And try reading what Mark doesn't say too.
“Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen; he is not here. See the place where they laid him. But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going before you to Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.” And they went out and fled from the tomb, for trembling and astonishment had seized them, and they said nothing (Mark 16:6-8)
Mark gives no accounts of anyone seeing Jesus . He has no account of the virgin birth of Jesus–or for that matter, any birth of Jesus at all. In fact, Joseph, husband of Mary, is never named in Mark’s Gospel at all–and Jesus is called a “son of Mary,”
This is not to mention the fact that Marks accounts were added to or should that be the church forged a new ending to Marks gospel.
And this is the stuff that you base your faith on? Don't make me laugh.
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@Tradesecret
Yes I thought you would come up with some sort of convoluted bullshit.Of course you would think that. You despise anyone who thinks differently to you.
No . I simply disagree with you. I don't "despise" you, you silly little small minded man. It is jut that you seem to choose when Jesus is a god and when Jesus isn't a god but simply a very human man. . You are full of it tradesecret.
Paul gave much evidence for it
Paul knew no more about Jesus the man or god than you or I do., you fool. Paul, by his own admission was a nineteen faced bastard who would say anything to make himself feel important and authoritative. . A bit like yourself. I have always thought that you fancy yourself as a (st) Paul.
Pauldoesn’t even mention the "miraculous" ascending into heaven event either, no empty tombs, no disappearance from the grave of the physical body,no physical resurrection, no physical appearances of a Christ whowould eat, or that the Jesus was elevated physically into heavenafter a given time. To Paul the body of Jesus who died wasdegradable, weak, and physical. IE Jesus was a man. Except to those who , like you want to believe those that made him a god.
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@Tradesecret
Christians teach that Jesus is man as well as God, which explains why you used this verse. In this verse Paul, not Timothy Paul wrote to Timothy) is specifically talking about the "man Christ Jesus"
Yes I thought you would come up with some sort of convoluted bullshit.
So tell me how was Jesus the man able to for instance "walk on water". Does the man flip between being a god and a human at will or just when it suits you.
And Christians may well teach that the very human Jesus was a "ALSO" a god but never ever provide the evidence to support that stupid and ridiculous claim. Jesus was a very human Jew, that taught and preached to Jews not Christians. He was king of the JEWS not king of the Christians. There were no Christians at the time of Jesus King of the Jews. Get over it princess.
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@Tradesecret
. You forgot that Christians teach not only that Jesus is God, but also man.
Have I? So simply explain to me, is Timothy speaking here of Jesus the man or Jesus as god?
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5
And tell me how Timothy et al knew which was the "mediator" and which was the god?
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@Lemming
'a chair leg is 'one of the bases for the chair standing up, even if there are other legs.
And you liken a dead piece of wood to the human mind that can be tricked, manipulated and coerced.
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@Tradesecret
Timothy wrote:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5[A] Tradesecret wrote: DO you want me to explain it [Timothy 1 Timothy 2:5] or do you simply want me to read it as it reads, which by the say is perfectly in accord with my theology and Christian theology. One thing this passage is NOT saying is that Jesus is not a god or God. It however is saying there is ONE GOD. Christians take the view that GOD here is the Trinity. Christians also by the way and I know you know this because I have said it many times, Jesus is Fully man. This is one reason why I would never say that Jesus is the Trinity or even the OT God per se.
Just as I predicted above #261
Stephen wrote: "But no doubt Tradesecret will now attempt to rewrite the scripture, redefine words and put words into the mouth of Timothy ............and James....... and John.
Tradesecrete has now at [A] above in quotes- injected into scripture and put words into the mouth of Timothy something that simple isn't there i.e. what the bible doesn't say at all. He wants to discuss what the bible is not saying but wants it to say. This is a perfect example of Tradesecret rewriting scripture.
Christ Jesus was and is a Man. And as a Man he was and is the only one capable of being the mediator between God and Man. Christians do not take the view that Christ as fully God was the mediator. That would be to bring God down. It would be absurd. God cannot die - but man can. Jesus is both fully God and fully Man. This is Christian teaching and what the bible clearly indicates.
Jesus! , you really are in muddle aren't you. Even the wind doesn't change its direction as much as you do.
So Jesus here is not a god according to Timothy, but simply a messenger/mediator. But no doubt Tradesecret will now attempt to rewrite the scripture, redefine words and put words into the mouth of Timothy .........No, I just responded in accordance to the teaching I had - about Jesus - not wanting to put him into boxes like you............and JamesJames 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.Another great verse. I believe in ONE GOD. And this verse confirms that belief is not restricted to believers.and JohnJohn 17:3 — And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.Another great verse-
You are all over the place man. You are even now denying what the gospels themselves make perfectly clear. The gospel writers make no mention of Jesus ever being god, NONE AT ALL! as much as you WANT them to. They simply tell of Jesus being a mediator , just as I have been saying all along. All kings of Jerusalem were called "sons of god" because they were the "MEDIATORS" between god an man , it didn't make them gods themselves.
I'll say it again. Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian. He was King of the Jews not King of the Christians. He was a Jewish Rabbi not a Christian Priest. Jesus was a very human rightful heir to the throne of JERUSALEM he was not a god.
I know you are asking a yes or no question and I am refusing to give one.
And we all know why don't we.
Grow up! Facts don't care about your beliefs, your opinions or your feelings.
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@Tradesecret
@BrotherDThomas
Tradesecret wrote: Jesus is God. The OT God is God. The Father is God. The Holy Spirit is God. The Son is God. Yet, the Father is not the Son is not the Spirit. I have also made the claim that the OT GOD is a good and holy God.
Anything you can do the Brother can do better!
BrotherDThomas wrote: So, what you are saying relative to the Trinity Doctrine is simply, there are three divine persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Yet these three divine persons are distinct from one another: the Father is not the Son, the Father is not the Holy Spirit, and the Son is not the Holy Spirit. However, there is exactly one God (1 Timothy 2:5), therefore Christ is His own Father and His own Son. The Holy Ghost is neither Father nor Son, but both in spirit. The Son was begotten by the Father, but existed before He was begotten. Christ is just as old as his Father, and the Father is just as young as his Son. The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but He is of the same age as the other two!To further the Godly Triune premise in your way of thinking, then the Father is Almighty, the Son is Almighty, and the Holy Ghost is Almighty, but yet there are not three Almighty's but one Almighty. It is plainly seen that we have three Almighty's, and at the same time, one Almighty. You inform us that obviously the three persons in the Trinity are co-eternal together and coequal. The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, and the Holy Ghost is eternal, and yet there are not three eternally, but one eternal. The plain English is, that the three entities in the Trinity are three eternally, and individually considered, and yet they are not three eternally, but one eternal!
1 Timothy wrote:
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5
So Jesus here is not a god according to Timothy, but simply a messenger/mediator. But no doubt Tradesecret will now attempt to rewrite the scripture, redefine words and put words into the mouth of Timothy .........
...........and James
James 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
and John
John 17:3 — And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
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@Tradesecret
Jesus is God. The OT God is God.
So Jesus is the god of the Old Testament, known to many theist as Jehovah/Yahweh? That is a yes or no question.
[the OT ]God is more complex than you want him to be.
He is very complex isn't he? As are all paranoid, narcissistic, schizophrenic megalomaniacs, that kill for the hell of it. Quite the contrast to the turn the other cheek, meek as a lamb "saviour" known to us and the Romans as Jesus the Jew , King of the Jews.
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@Tradesecret
I do make mistakes
Telling lies by mistake. I see. You are full of it Tradesecret and have been exposed to be bible ignorant so much so that you, like that other dolt ethang5, have to resort to rewriting scripture, rewriting history and redefining words and, as you have done on many threads, put words into the mouths of the biblical authors and characters once you have painted yourself into a corner.
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@Tradesecret
Jesus is God. God is a Trinity. The Father is God. The Holy Spirit is God. Yet Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are together the Trinity not any one of them individually. Jesus is also fully man. Yet the Father, who is God is not man. And the Spirit who is God is not man. "in the whole" conveys the OT God as the Triune God.
My word. You just make clap trap up on the hoof, don't you.
So you want me to draw a conclusion without thinking?
You just cannot go there and we all know why. Jesus as Jehovah/ Yahweh is the serial killer that the Brother has been saying he is all along. The Brother has been shown to be correct . And you are now desperately trying to defend the indefensible with blinding bullshite clap trap above..
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@Tradesecret
Oh Stephen, get over yourself - two lines ago you were DIRECTLY asking me what I think. You were asking me is Jesus Jehovah.
You really are a sly one. I am not asking you what you "think". I have asked is Jesus Jehovah.? The truth is that you dare not directly identify Jesus as also being the OT god Jehovah from the beginning because that god -Jehovah aka YHWH, was a murdering psychopath that has murdered and distinguished life for something as simple as a wager and in doing so, this makes the Brothers claim that Jesus as god Jehovah aka YHWH, was a serial murderer and a killer of innocent children.
should I care what you think?
That is down to you sunshine. But none of your bullshit changes the fact that is all that you have done is prove the Brother to be correct.
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@Tradesecret
This is just more filibustering . Not to mention back peddling on your lies.
I have read all the works of Josephus by William Whiston. Something that you Christians depend on atheists not reading. You believers are way behind when it comes to your own scriptures too.
Among religious ‘nones,’ atheists and agnostics know the most about religion.
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@Tradesecret
Looking for what they think are signs that will reveal his near coming.Well didn't Jesus make it clear what those signs were in Mathew?On the contrary Jesus made it very clear - and the Christians at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 used his words in order to save their lives. Josephus provides quite clear evidence of this in his book.
You really are full of crap aren't you. They weren't "Chrsitians" at the fall of Jerusalem or the temple. It was a Jewish rebellion among themselves and against the Romans.
It is one thing that you attempt to rewrite the biblical scriptures to suit your own narrative but now you are attempting to rewrite those works of Joseph son of Matthias, better known as Flavius Josephus a JEWISH Pharisee priest and and JEWISH general, who himself did battle with the Romans.
You are not even ashamed are you?
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@RoderickSpode
Christians don't read their Bible
Does that include you?
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@Tradesecret
Stephen, why are you so obnoxious? I actually don't tell lies.
And now you are not only lying but you have avoided this direct question altogether. And we all know why. You are a fraud who wants it both ways.
You asked whether Jesus was Jehovah.
Yes I have haven't I ? But you have skirted this question and now avoided it like a plague altogether.
I think the name Jehovah is an incorrect understanding of the real name of the Lord in the OT.
I am not interested in what you think. You are a coward that is simply trying to get out of a very tight spot.
I think it is not correct to identify Jesus with Jehovah or YHWH in a simple yes or not response.
Either Jesus is or is not Jehovah of the OT . Again, you are just skirting the issue and offering excuses why you cannot answer the question. But you will say that Jesus is god from the beginning, the Alpha & Omega the beginning and the end, now and always. And to add to that, you are telling us that Jesus is and was the ONLY god to have existed!
The truth is that you dare not directly identify Jesus with the OT god Jehovah because that god -Jehovah aka YHWH, was a murdering psychopath that has murdered and distinguished life for something as simple as a wager and in doing so, this makes the Brothers claim that Jesus as god Jehovah aka YHWH, was a serial murderer and a killer of innocent children.
IMO Jesus would be appalled that a whole new religion has sprung up in his name. He would have called it blasphemy, I'm sure.
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@Tradesecret
Let's try that again. Is Jesus also the God Jehovah?I thought I had already answered you.You haven't. Is all you have done is circle the question. And we all know why? Your god is a killer of innocents no matter in what guise you prefer to address him as. Unless of course, Jesus is a different god to Jehovah. Which the bible states that there are indeed many other gods.Again, this is what you get when you adopt a god of who you know nothing and from a time and place you know absolutely nothing at all about.No I have answered the question. Jesus is God.
No you haven't stop telling lies. I have asked you is Jesus Jehovah? You are avoiding answering this question direct and honest because you know that it would put Jesus in the frame for millions of innocent deaths! As I keep telling you, this is what you get when you adopt a god of who you know nothing and from a time and place you know absolutely nothing at all about.
Jesus was not a god. Jesus was a rightful heir to the throne of Jerusalem. He was a very human King of the Jews NOT Christians. All kings of Jerusalem were called `sons of god'.
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@Tradesecret
Is Jesus God Jehovah or not?Yes, Jesus is God.Let's try that again. Is Jesus also the God Jehovah?I thought I had already answered you.
You haven't. Is all you have done is circle the question. And we all know why? Your god is a killer of innocents no matter in what guise you prefer to address him as. Unless of course, Jesus is a different god to Jehovah. Which the bible states that there are indeed many other gods.
Again, this is what you get when you adopt a god of who you know nothing and from a time and place you know absolutely nothing at all about.
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@Tradesecret
Is Jesus God Jehovah or not?Yes, Jesus is God.
Let's try that again. Is Jesus also the God Jehovah?
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@Tradesecret
and that children should honor their parents.
And the punishment for children not honouring their parents is what?
The Brother accused Jesus of being a killer in his human form.
No I believe the Brother is suggesting that Jesus as Jehovah from the beginning killed innocent people including children. You just want to ignore this fact.
Is Jesus God Jehovah or not?
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@Tradesecret
If you are going to criticise my arguments at look at what I am saying.
I did.
The challenge was for the Brother to demonstrate from the gospels that Jesus while he was in his bodily form in his ministry as a human - killed people.
And Jesus is god from the beginning and god/Jesus from the beginning slaughtered thousands of innocents. You can't have it both ways. Either Jesus is god from the beginning or a different god to that of the god of Hebrew and Israelite. Or is not a god at all.
It was specifically not about the invisible non-human form. The Brother had stated such a lie and I called him out on it and asked him to prove it.
The brother has not lied. He has stuck to the Christian doctrine that Jesus is God from the beginning. You just cannot face it .
He could not produce even one verse that Jesus killed anyone.
The god of the Old Testament is Jesus who was from the beginning of time, the 1st and the last. The Alpha & Omega. This is your own dogma. And the OT is riddled with unjust death caused and committed by Jesus /Jehovah. This is what happens when you adopt a deity from a time and place that you know absolutely nothing about . The Brother has you bang to rights , snookered and cornered.
But the Brother attempting to pull the wool over our eyes by a switch and bait trick is more silly.
How has he done that? He has adhered strictly to Christian dogma. Or are you now saying that the god Jehovah of the Old Testament IS NOT Jesus the god of the Christians.
I suggest he look up the term intellectual honesty.
And I suggest that you start facing a few cold facts.
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@Username
What was the point of this thread?
Deary me.
I so hate Emoji's but it is at times like this that I do wish that the forum had one of those - head dropping hard on a desk with a loud thud - Emojis.
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@Tradesecret
I do not deny that the words quoted above were mine.
Which promotes the killing of children.
I can only note that it was not my intention to incite violence against parents or children
But you have done so .
and in fact believed that I was suggesting that the family unit is a good thing which is why Jesus was making such a point.
1st degree back peddling.
If the learned moderator however forms the view that the words I wrote breach the TOC then I am at his / her mercy.
For gods sake man , put your tong back in your head!
I can only reiterate there was no intention of inciting violence
But you did and I have been banned for far less.
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@Tradesecret
Yet, none of them demonstrate Jesus killing anyone.
Is not Jesus also Jehovah the god of the Hebrews and the Israelite? That was also this first the last, the Alpha & Omega from the beginning of time?
We might as well call Tolkien a bloodthirsty murderer for all the people killed in the Lord of the Rings.
Stop being silly, there is no comparison, And we all know Tolkien was simply a brilliant writer of fiction. Well most of us do.
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@Tradesecret
Yes, I do believe Jesus is GOD. And as such he has existed from eternity - that is what the bible teaches. No problems with that position.
So then the Brother is correct.. There is no need for all of your filibustering word salad , flapping and clap trap.
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@Tradesecret
Well that is a good reason. LOL! And again without a shred of evidence for such a blatant lie.
Christians believe Jesus to be god. The one and only god that existed from the beginning. So unless you want to admit that there were, are and is, more than one god as per scripture , then Jesus is the god that the Brother describes perfectly.
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@BrotherDThomas
Brother. In reference to you post #172 and calling out the hypocrisy of many here and in particular Tradesecret
"Within the scriptures, Jesus is a blatant serial killer as Yahweh God incarnate, He is greedy, jealous, selfish, self-centered, petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capricious, and malevolent. Also, our Jesus was an abortionist which leaves a lot of embarrassment if we picket Family Planning Clinics, do you get our hypocrisy if we do?"
All the above is correct.
And the reason for Jesus being all the above , as I have said many many times before, is that Christians have adopted a god from a time they neither knew or understood anything about and of who they knew nothing about and this is their burden. It leads them then to have to defend the indefensible and the only way they can do this is to use double standards, tell lies, rewrite the scriptures, deny biblical facts, and become hypocrites in the process and hope that no one notices.
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@Tradesecret
what I had to say was helpful
To whom?
the Bible itself states that no one knows the hour or the day
It does, yet it hasn't stopped the above mentioned Christians making predictions that they should know that no one knows. Which can only mean that they too haven't read their own scriptures, including Sextus Julius Africanus who I have mentioned was a Christian historian as was Irenaeus who was brought up in a Christian. I also mentioned St Beatus of Liébana he was a christian , theologian and geographer. Hippolytus of Rome was one of the most important second-third century Christian theologians.
Not to mention people such as Pope Sylvester II predicted Jan 1000, John Wesley predicted 1836, Catholic Apostolic Church predicted 1901 and the very famous Jehovah's Witnesses who predicted 1914. ALL ARE Christians . They too must have , just like , failed to read and understand the bible too.
Looking for what they think are signs that will reveal his near coming.
Well didn't Jesus make it clear what those signs were in Mathew?
there are many parts of the church who do not think we are in the end of the world
I don't think Jesus ever spoke about "the end of the world" but he certainly spoke of the "end of the age. The bible is riddled with astronomy and astrology. In fact the whole bible story is wrapped in both. The Jesus story starts with a reference to the sky and it continues right up until the crucifixion.
“Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.” Mat 2:1
And isn't there some kind of solar eclipse at the end?
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@Tradesecret
I too could just move on.
Then do and stop re-posting your usual "old and boring" word salad. .
there is no particular need for me to post here
I agree. But post you do.
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@MisterChris
if you look at the definition of an incel, the criticism is fair game. If he openly advocates for women going straight to hell, I can definitely call him an incel.
Opinion
Incel: "involuntary celibates", who define themselves as unable to find a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one". .
Applying this unfounded tag to the Brother is a personal attack. Or do you as a mod retain the right to move the goal posts at will?
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@MisterChris
BrotherDThomas is an incel
Personal attacks? And from a moderator too. I have been banned for less.
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@HistoryBuff
Then why did you even mention that this man was likened to an animal AFTER he had called these police officers "animals", if it is "irrelevant"?
Your question was whether I think the police were animals, that is irrelevant.
No it isn't "irrelevant". This man called the police animals. Do you agree with him?
christopher and I were having a discussion that included other things.Yes and you sprang on the opportunity to bring race into the conversation. Why?
because we were discussing events relating to police, but not precisely relating to this one case.
OK. And do you believe this was a racist incident? If not - OR - you don't know then why even mention racism in this instance?
No, what you said was : " But calling someone an animal is dehumanizing behavior, which is common in racist people." These officers were also called "animals" was that dehumanising?sure, but there is a massive discrepancy in circumstance.
You'd like there to be. One party called another party "animals" and vice versa. So did this man dehumanise the police when he called them animals.
But police are supposed to be trained on how to handle this stuff.No. What the police are trained to do is uphold the law. Here in the UK is all the police have to do is up hold the Queens peace. They do not have to be lawyers , care workers, social workers or medical mediators.
I'm almost certain that UK police officers are trained to defuse tension and resolve issues without violence as much as possible.
Maybe but its not compulsory. They are not in the force for another reason but to uphold the queens peace, that is their job!
I too believe it maybe could have been handled a little more delicately than the abrupt manner in which it was managed. But this wasn't a racial issue as much as you are begging it to be.you either misunderstanding me or misrepresenting what I have said.
I have simply asked you questions. You have made claims or statements and I have questioned you on them.
I have never claimed that I know racism played a role here.
But you didn't hesitate to attempt to inject racism into this thread. post#7
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