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@RoderickSpode
Your post ~10 is of the personal nature and what you believe about me personally. It has nothing to do with this thread. I won't bother addressing a single part of it.
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@RoderickSpode
Again, you try to rewrite the scriptures. Youattempt this every single time that your gods vile nature is exposed for whatit actually is."the LORD had hardened Pharaoh'sheart and hewould not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said toMoses." Exodus 9:12.
Your comment is similar to claiming that theEnglish language translators of the KJV rewrote the Bible. Or that the writersof the NKJV, NASB, NIV rewrote the KJV. Is this what you believe?
Not at all. You have been shown many BIBLICALexamples of god and the bible stating clearly that the hardening of theheart of Pharaoh was all gods doing and with intent. If you can find a extra biblical scripture that contradicts the bible, any bible, then I will gladly take itinto consideration. But this will leave you with a MASSIVE problem if you wereto discover such a scripture.
But the bible CLEARLY states that "God hadhardened Pharaoh's heart"!! do you not see that ,LOOK>>>>"the LORD had hardened Pharaoh'sheart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD hadsaid to Moses." Exodus 9:12Your piss poor attempts at rewriting thesescriptures every time the vile nature of your god ( who you also claim is Jesus)is exposed only serves to show how biblical uneducated you actually are. Youmust keep missing what it is the BIBLE ACTUALLY states LOOK>>>> "theLORD had hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listento Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses." Exodus9:12
Indeed, and all caused by god. By hisown admission and prediction. OR are you saying the bible is wrong and thatyour examples contradict what THE BIBLE and GOD himself says here below:
“But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the peopleof Israel go.” (Exodus 10:20)
“But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.”(Exodus 10:27)
“And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh king ofEgypt, and hepursued the people of Israel while the people of Israel were going outdefiantly.” (Exodus 14:8)
“And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will pursue them, and Iwill get glory over Pharaoh and all his host, and the Egyptians shall know thatI am the Lord.” And they did so.” (Exodus 14:4)
“But the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he did not listen to them,as the Lord had spoken to Moses. (Exodus 9:12)
“But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my signsand wonders in the land of Egypt,” (Exodus 7:3)
“And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back toEgypt, see that you do before Pharaoh all the miracles that I have put in yourpower. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let thepeople go.” (Exodus 4:21)
I'm anxiously awaiting your interpretation of theverses I just gave you.
Why? They simply confirm what the lord god himself says he will do and did do. Or are you saying your verses contradict those verses where we can read clearly for ourselves, of GOD himself saying “And I will harden Pharaoh's heart,” at (Exodus 14:4) AND (Exodus 9:12) AND (Exodus 7:3) AND (Exodus 4:21)?
That is a yes or no question .
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@Barney
You two should probably have a debate about Pharaoh's heart.
That is not helpful, but that said, I am discussing it, as is the Brother. Don't think for a second that I hold the same religious beliefs as the Brother, because you wouldn't be more wrong. I have no religious beliefs. The Brother just happens to believe what the bible ACTUALLY says without room for misinterpretation or misunderstanding. He is honest about his god and scriptures yet he is forever being mocked for his honesty and how he presents the scripture. At least he doesn't BARE FACE LIE about what the scripture actually states.
The conversation has now turned to the predicted re-writing of the scripture and the denials by apologist such as RoderickSpode , who, in the face of all the BIBLICAL evidence still tries, in vain, to tell tell us that the bible doesn't actually say what it indeed actually says.
How many times does the lord god himself admit his intentions to "hardening the heart" of Pharaoh?
“And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will pursue them, and I will get glory over Pharaoh and all his host, and the Egyptians shall know that I am the Lord.” And they did so.” (Exodus 14:4)
“But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in the land of Egypt,” (Exodus 7:3)
“And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do before Pharaoh all the miracles that I have put in your power. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.” (Exodus 4:21)
How many times does the bible say that the lord god actually did "hardened the heart of Pharoah"?
“But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the people of Israel go.” (Exodus 10:20)
“But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.” (Exodus 10:27)
“And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued the people of Israel while the people of Israel were going out defiantly.” (Exodus 14:8)
“But the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he did not listen to them, as the Lord had spoken to Moses. (Exodus 9:12)
So for all the repeated verses claiming what god will do and did do to Pharaoh's heart, I am told that I am wrong. How can these verses be "mis-read" or "misinterpreted" and "misunderstood"? as I am continually accused of doing by apologist who do not know these scriptures themselves.
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@Tyran_Ohrex
the difference is that god of the Koran HIMSELF DIRECTLY instructs his followers.....So lets stop going in circles. the only way that you can stop your nonsense or mine, is for you to simply put up the evidence that I have requested from you above. Why don't you simply put up anything from the Christian New Testament showing the Christ to be directly instructing his followers to go out into the world to kill and maim and rape anyone who does not believe in him as does the god of the KoranI did supply the evidence as per post #17 and further illustrated the point in another post.
No, what you have done is quote certain biblical verses that in no way confirm or show the Christ giving direct orders to his followers to murder any who is not Christian or to murder any who does not believe in him, or to murder anyone that refuses to convert to Christianity.
Your first attempt was this irrelevant verse:
Luke 12:45-47 " But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.
47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows.
NOPE nothing there describing direct orders from the Christ to any of his followers to murder anyone who is not Christian or to murder any who does not believe in him, or to murder anyone that refuses to convert to Christianity.
Your second irrelevant attempt was 1 Corinthians 4:21 simply states " What do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a rod of discipline, or shall I come in love and with a gentle spirit"?
So Nope again, there is nothing in that verse either that describes or shows direct orders from the Christ to any of his followers murder anyone who is not Christian or to murder any who does not believe in him, or to murder anyone that refuses to convert to Christianity.
Maybe your third irrelevant attempt may prove your point? Lets see;
Galatians 5:12 "As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves"!
Nope again!. There are no direct instructions from Jesus to his followers to go out and kill anyone not Christian or to murder anyone who does not believe in him, or to murder anyone that refuses to convert to Christianity.
Now let us have a look at your beloved Koran.
Quran 8:39
"And fight them until there is no fitnah and until the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed,Allah is Seeing of what they do".
"Untill ALL religion is for Allah" . There is no mistaking it. This is perpetual jihad.
Quran 51 - You, who have believed, do not take the Jews andthe Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoeveris an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allahguides not the wrongdoing people.
Allah just hates anyone not Muslim doesn't he.
Quran 3:56 - "Asto those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this worldand in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
In this world and the next, simply for not believing in him. All very , very tolerant isn't it.
The rest of your post is simply you repeating your opinions. I don't care about your opinions. Start your own thread on Islam and what you believe about it and why you are attempting to defend the indefensible with utter lies and BS.
Now go and find someone else to try out your Islam apologetic nonsense on and see if they put up with you as long as I have.
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@Barney
So I'm hoping to have a discussion on the topic of hypothetical women priests.
1 Timothy 2:12 New International Version (NIV)
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man, she must be quiet.
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man, she must be quiet.
1 Corinthians 14:34 New International Version (NIV)
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.
It appears your up against it, doesn't it? That said, Apollos believed himself to be " competent in the Scriptures" found himself lacking when Priscilla and Aquila (both women) had to put him right on a few things scriptural .Acts 18:24-26
There are quite a few here that remind me of Apollos.
Then of course we have god himself talking of daughters [women] being prophets:
" And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,Acts 2:17
But then Timothy has to go and spoil the dream saying "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness." 1 Timothy 2:11
But then Philip the evangelist had four unmarried daughters, that prophesied. Acts 21:8-9
I can only gather that the bible gives out mixed messages when it comes to women priests.
The Gnostic gospels has Mary Magdalene pleading with the Christ to have a word with Peter telling him she was extremely scared of Peter - real name Simon - and that he hated her.
I even got repeatedly called a "heretic."
Excuse me for laughing. I get called that all the time.
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@RoderickSpode
whatever the accusation of barbarity is, our society actually practices the same.
That may have much to do with being created in their image : "Let US make mankind in our image, in our likeness," Gen I;26
Eternal Punishment [..........................................] involves fire, endless black darkness,[...............]
Didn't Jesus die to save us from the hell fire and blackness of eternal death? Didn't god send his only begotten son to suffer a vile and vicious beating and to be hung on a cross by nails driven through his hands and feet to save us from these fires that you mention Yes, here we are: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life". But of course I have to believe in god to get this reward.
Christians are haughty people. They believe that they have the monopoly on morals and integrity and social values simply because they believe in a god. They wouldn't entertain the idea that an atheist can posses any of these things.
Should anyone deserve to be punished eternally?
See above.
Genocide/InfanticideOne of the common statements made in the various God is evil franchise threads is that God did something aweful for no reason at all (fill in the blank with accusation). And fauxlaw often points out that there was a reason. Which is true. No matter the allegation, there was always a reason. And a valid reason at that.
There can never be a "valid reason" for killing innocent people, no matter how much you scrape the biblical barrel for one. And the whole of your post simply reeks of apologetics and this is even before one might want scrutinise the contradictions in your post. I won't bother.
And while you are banging on about executions and life imprisonment for murderers et al, keep in mind that the first murderer was given the whole of the planet to wonder and find a new life as his punishment. <<< yet another biblical story that contradicts itself.
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@BrotherDThomas
Stephen,Unfortunately you are opening up the flood gates once again for the truly Bible ignorant pseudo-christians like Doc Frank, Tradesecret, FAUXLAW, the MIA EtrnlVw, et al, to try their best to Satanically spin doctor away yet another of Jesus' murdering sprees towards innocent babies, this time, in the land of Egypt.This treatise of yours just shows me why I still have a hard time worshiping and believing in a murdering serial killer Jesus in the 21st Century. :(
And It didn't take too long to prove you to be absolutely correct Brother. The accusations of MY inability to understand "with a bent to constantly misinterpret scripture" wrong, came almost instantly. The, typical response from RoderickSpode, I suppose, has become the norm for those apologist who simply cannot get out of the corner they painted themselves in by adopting this vile ancient intolerant being - of which they have absolutely no understanding of - as their god.
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@RoderickSpode
The Pharoah hardened his own heart. It was already hardened.
Again, you try to rewrite the scriptures. You attempt this every single time that your gods vile nature is exposed for what it actually is.
"the LORD had hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses." Exodus 9:12
God didn't cast a spell on Pharaoh forcing him to harden his heart.
But the bible CLEARLY states that "God had hardened Pharaoh's heart"!! do you not see that , LOOK>>>>"the LORD had hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses." Exodus 9:12
God simply knew that by showing Pharaoh his faithfulness to the Israelites the effect would be him hardening his heart.
Your piss poor attempts at rewriting these scriptures every time the vile nature of your god ( who you also claim is Jesus) is exposed only serves to show how biblical uneducated you actually are. You must keep missing what it is the BIBLE ACTUALLY states LOOK>>>> "the LORD had hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses." Exodus 9:12
It's very simple. Even for someone with a bent to constantly misinterpret scripture.
There is no other way to interpret what it is that the BIBLE actually states LOOK>>>> "the LORD had hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses." Exodus 9:12
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For all the amount of absolute nonsense concerning Moses and Egypt the silliest (although cruelest & deadliest) part has to be the murder by god, of all Egypt's first born.
"At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well".Exodus 12:29
God by all accounts, murdered these innocents because Pharaoh had refused to let the Israelites go. Why had Pharaoh refused to let them go? Because:
"the LORD had hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses." Exodus 9:12
Is it any wonder then how and why "the lord" was able to predict to Moses that Pharaoh wouldn't comply!?
So this savage brutal lord had made sure that Pharaoh wouldn't comply and then murdered all the first born of that land as a punishment for Pharaoh not complying.
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@fauxlaw
I had to re-post this as I didn't address the original above # 18 fauxlaw, in response to you personally.
fauxlaw, wrote: You, claiming "Christ taught of the Qumran community with his various "code" messages:"
Stephen wrote: you would know that for the best part of the New Testament Jesus often speaks in code for those with ears - and references to "the meek", "the poor" and "the peacemakers" and others are all references to the members and ranks of the Qumran community: example, "the poor" were the Celibates of the Qumran community who usually handled the funds
For all of your claims of understanding languages, you cannot even grasp basic English. SIMPLY SHOW ME WHERE IT IS IN THAT QUOTE OF MINE ABOVE that you have re quoted as evidence that I say Jesus taught at Qumran,THAT I STATE JESUS WAS ADDRESSING OR TEACHING OR EVEN PREACHING TO THE QUMRAN COMMUNITY AT QUMRAN !!!!!! ???? And hurry up about it!!!!!
Jesus was REFERENCING, i.e making reference to; members of the Qumran community when he was ADDRESSING the multitude at the sermon on the mount. STOP TRYING TO pervert my words and meanings.
Jesus often spoke in parables when he addressed crowds so much so that this confused even his own followers at times. when he was asked about it he simply said words to the effect " Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has NOT been given .
So in clear English, if there were members of the Qumran community among the multitude then they would understand that they were being addressed BECAUSE THEY HAD " EARS" but people such as the Romans and ordinary Jewish citizens who did not know about or understand the Qumran community and its ranking system, its customs and its rituals would not.
Matthew 11:15
Also, Jesus CLEARLY used code names for certain New Testament characters who were among his followers, and with good reason. He changed the names of some of followers too also with good reason. And you would know why IF you understood the time and place that these characters are said to have existed. Some of his disciples only met him in secret under the cover of darkness, again, for obvious reasons.
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@fauxlaw
@Stephen wrote; Oh yes, I am sure that these innocent illiterate daughters of mere humans freely went with these gods sons.That is a quote from your #10. Not what I said; it's all yours.
That's correct. I wrote that. I didn't say you said that, have I ?
Yes, what YOU said. Get it? Innocent, illiterate daughrers?
Yes I said that too. I should have also added - corrupted and defiled by the son's of god who had broken a serious heavenly taboo by copulating with these female human children.
But non of this squares these two verses concerning your gods contradictory behavior, which happens to be the actual theme of this thread.
Here have a go. I would be interested to see how you make these one and the same being.
" For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life". John 3:16
"So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” Genesis 6:7 So then the god of this verse went on to destroy all of the earth and its inhabitants.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
This Matthew bloke, Can we trust him?
None of the gosple authors can be "trusted".
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@Tyran_Owreck
Talking to those Republicans and they will all tell you that what they do is in the name of Jesus Christ.Lets us all see your documented evidence for that actually being the case.I'm sorry but I did not write the event in my notebook at the time.
So you don't have any evidence for your original claim then.
In fact, most people would say that Christianity has the most vile and violent ideology of any religion.
Why don't you simply put up anything from the Christian New Testament showing the Christ to be directly instructing his followers to go out into the world to kill and maim and rape anyone who does not believe in him as does the god of the Koran And anything, that shows the Christ directly instructing his followers to convert the whole world to Christianity by force, as does the Koran.
followers will interpret passages the way they see fit to fit in with their own ideologies.
They will. But like I have said, the difference is that god of the Koran HIMSELF DIRECTLY instructs his followers to convert the whole world to Islam and by force and kill anyone who does not believe in him:
Quran 8:39
And fight them until there is no fitnah and until the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed,Allah is Seeing of what they do.
You will not find any such instructions from the Christ in the NT.
Moderate followers will see goodness and peace; extremists will see violence and self-centered promotion of their own nefarious causes.
Again I say to you, there is nothing in the NT that encourages or promotes violence. You are desperate to attach something , anything, violent to the New Testament and its Christ god that promotes violence and intolerance, there is nothing there, at all.
So lets stop going in circles. the only way that you can stop your nonsense or mine, is for you to simply put up the evidence that I have requested from you above.
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You, claiming "Christ taught of the Qumran community with his various "code" messages:"
Stephen wrote: you would know that for the best part of the New Testament Jesus often speaks in code for those with ears - and references to "the meek", "the poor" and "the peacemakers" and others are all references to the members and ranks of the Qumran community: example, "the poor" were the Celibates of the Qumran community who usually handled the funds
For all of your claims of understanding languages, you cannot even grasp basic English. SIMPLY SHOW ME WHERE IT IS IN THAT QUOTE OF MINE ABOVE that you have re quoted as evidence that I say Jesus taught at Qumran,THAT I STATE JESUS WAS ADDRESSING OR TEACHING OR EVEN PREACHING TO THE QUMRAN COMMUNITY AT QUMRAN !!!!!! ???? And hurry up about it!!!!!
Jesus was REFERENCING, i.e making reference to; members of the Qumran community when he was ADDRESSING the multitude at the sermon on the mount. STOP TRYING TO pervert my words and meanings.
Jesus often spoke in parables when he addressed crowds so much so that this confused even his own followers at times. when he was asked about it he simply said words to the effect " Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has NOT been given .
So in clear English, if there were members of the Qumran community among the multitude then they would understand that they were being addressed BECAUSE THEY HAD " EARS" but people such as the Romans and ordinary Jewish citizens who did not know about or understand the Qumran community and its ranking system, its customs and its rituals would not.
Matthew 11:15
Also, Jesus CLEARLY used code names for certain New Testament characters who were among his followers, and with good reason. He changed the names of some of followers too also with good reason. And you would know why IF you understood the time and place that these characters are said to have existed. Some of his disciples only met him in secret under the cover of darkness, again, for obvious reasons.
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@Tyrone_Rexx
Therefore we are really looking at one God who, like the best of us, loves and hates.
The Christian will have us all believe that they are indeed one and the same god.
But the biblical evidence seems to show the contrary:
" For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life". John 3:16
"So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” Genesis 6:7
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@fauxlaw
I'm interested in the truth,
Presenting your opinions or even a theory as fact is not truth seeking.
Know more than your mother tongue;
You certainly make a lot of assumptions about people you don't even know, don't you? You should take your own advice on that score. You claim to be familiar with ancient languages yet cannot grasp even basic English. You say I say things that I haven't even said and then attempt to wrap an ARGUMENT around a false premise of your making. You are a deceitful.
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@fauxlaw
I see a lot of pontification from you;
No, that is clearly your forte. I don't present theory or my opinions as fact.
You claim the Christ taught of the Qumran community with his various “code” messages
Where do I claim that ? I have said nothing of the sort. This is you AGAIN!!! inventing a strawman, AGAIN!!!!!!
I haven't said anywhere that Jesus taught at Qumran. But now you want to build an argument around something I haven't said. This is sheer deceptive behavior from a clown on the back foot.
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@fauxlaw
Verse 2 says the sons of God married the daughters of men. Rape is not mentioned but by your interpretation. Dense.
Oh yes, I am sure that these innocent illiterate daughters of mere humans freely went with these gods sons. It was taboo for the sons of god to lay with humans; they defiled themselves. They were forced to marry these daughters because they had defiled themselves, The union/marriage was their punishment.
AND I didn't quote a biblical verse as you so densely assumed. Try reading the book of Enoch or any other extra biblical literature concerning these sons of god and stop pretending that you are well read on these matters when you are clearly not.
And to persistently refer to me as "dense" will not win you an argument.
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@Dr.Franklin
..................if we wasted it
Oh stop with your contradictory nonsense.
The sons of god came down and raped the daughters of men and then he punished mankind for the sinful and taboo deed committed my his own offspring.. This is no different to Muslims who stone a rape VICTIM to death.
One minute this god is telling us that he has had his fill of HIS creation and so murders everything alive and the next they are telling us how much he loves us and wants to have "everlasting life". There is not a single mention or thought given to the millions of innocents that were slaughtered. Humans were ten a penny to this psychopathic clown and you just want to pretend everything was ok.
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@Dr.Franklin
But "he so loved us and the world". give me a break!
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@Singularity
The pandemic is a lie
I can't stop thinking that this is all some kind of a social experiment, with the intent of a compulsory worldwide vaccination program in mind and we not knowing what will be pumped into us. I am not any kind of conspiracy theorist. These figures are simply not adding up at all.
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@Willows
Do Christians Hallucinate?
I don't know about Christians but I have often wondered this about some of the biblical characters, Jesus and John the Baptist in particular and both Jews not Christians. John swore he heard the voice of god telling him that Jesus was his son and swore that he seen doves come from the heaves as the clouds parted, but just a few short verses later he denies even knowing Jesus and then doubts if Jesus is the messiah.
Jesus seems convinced that he is speaking to someone - his father - in the garden of Gethsemane. I don't know about you but this is another story that can only be explained as an hallucinatory experience. Jesus wasn't spared of this absolute barbaric execution by "his father" or anyone else. In fact his "father" total ignored his own and only son's plea for relief and reprieve and didn't say a word to him. Not even a single word of comfort. It makes absolutely no sense at all does it.
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@n8nrgmi
if you take the bible at face value, i dont know how a sane person wouldn't be uncomfortable by the bible.
I agree. But this will not stop the apologists scrapping together irrelevant biblical verses to concoct excuses for this maniac, I can assure you.
it looks like God tortures people in fire for eternity if they aren't good enough or christian. isnt this disturbing?
It is disturbing considering we are forever being told " your father loves you">
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16
God relentlessly killing children and relatively innocent people in the old testament. ie noah's flood, the spirit that killed the first born if you didn't smear blood etc.only brainwashed people can find these things not troublesome.
Of course they are troublesome and embarrassing for the apologist. But you'd never know. When apologist are confronted with such biblical barbarity concerning their god don't expect them to agree with you in the slightest that god is a violent being prone to extremely violent outbursts fit of a schizophrenic egotist
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@Deb-8-a-bull
' I will wipe from the face of the earth all the humans and all the animals.
But then we are told - " " For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life". John 3:16
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@fauxlaw
are you this dense????????????. [...................]I've defined pure in heart for you three times
No what you have done is made up three different versions of what you believe "pure in heart " to mean. Go back and read your own crap. I am sick of having to repeatedly show YOU what YOU have actually written And like I said, You are presenting your opinions as fact.
So let me give you my version of what " the pure in heart" means. The pure in heart are a reference to the devote members of the monastery at Qumran. These particular members of the Qumran community are devoted to nothing and no one but god. They were known as The Pure in Heart.
You really need to take more notice when reading these scriptures . The verse does not say blessed are those that ARE pure in heart for they shall see God, does it????????? No, that's because it is a ranking title and who are addressed as THE Pure In Heart.
And you tell me you study ancient languages. If you actually did study the ancient biblical languages as you claim at post # 4 above, you would know that for the best part of the New Testament Jesus often speaks in code for those with ears - and references to "the meek", "the poor" and "the peacemakers" and others are all references to the members and ranks of the Qumran community: example, "the poor" were the Celibates of the Qumran community who usually handled the funds...................... that Judas was forever robbing. I could list all of those mentioned in the sermon and there status or ranks as they are all references to members of the Qumran community.
AND NO< I AM NOT DENSE!
Ancient languages, my arse!.
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@RoderickSpode
Good for you. The so called Lords Prayer is an Egyptian prayer. Parallels in the Lord's Prayer and The Coming Into Day can be found in the Egyptian Book of the Dead.Interesting. I actually read the Egyptian Book Of The Dead. I don't recall that.
This from the man who tells us the bible doesn't reveal any "info" about if or not John the Baptist was himself baptised , when the Christ himself makes it clear that Is it any wonder he doesn't "recall anything".
I don't care if you believe me or not. But for the record, I read it on-line a couple of years ago.
Good, Then you won't have too much trouble finding it and reading it again will you.
My prediction:Your next comment will be another self-promo suggesting how much you know (while providing no evidence for the question at hand).
Wrong again.
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@fauxlaw
You’ve “read” all of E.A. Wallis Budge,
Yes. The thread is not about Budge. I reference Budge only in response to your claim of being able to read Egyptian Hieroglyphs.
and you claim to not understand what “pure in heart” means? “I know myself, I know myself, I am One with God.” “May thou be at peace with me, may I see thy beauties, may I advance upon the earth, may I smite the ass, may I crush the evil one…”
The above does not explain what it means to be pure in heart" and why the pure in heart will see god yet not "the meek" or the peacekeepers" or "the merciful"?
Why would the Christ even divide and categorize individuals with certain qualities and appear to judge one quality over another?
Not to mention that the Sermon on the Mount is simply a collection of sayings from many philosophies from around the world and from before and after Jesus is said to have existed. In other words, they are not exclusive to Jesus as the New Testament author will have us believe.
Also not to mention how flawed the whole sermon is. It all seems very well to say "pure in heart" "the merciful" "the meek" and "the peacemakers" will see god, be called children of god and inherit the heavens. But to be offering compensation for these things, rather than telling that true morality only takes place when you want to do what you are doing, is educationally and developmentally debilitating. It teaches followers to do good things to get into Heaven and see god , not to do good things simply because it is the right thing to do.
Your word salad isn't working. You have absolutely no answers so simply rearrange words you have already wrote.
Start by justifying some of the points raised above rather than causing me to repeat my self.
I refer you to my prediction at post #3 above;>>>
"Am I going to have to continually repeat what I wrote and hope you read what I actually wrote and not what you want me to have written? This is how straw man arguments are created".
You may enjoy circular arguments , But I have absolutely no time for them.
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@RoderickSpode
I actually read the Egyptian Book Of The Dead. I don't recall that.
I don't believe you. Tell me, what is the first line on page 115 of the Papyrus of Ani. I have a 1st edition of Budges Transliteration and Translation. So I suggest you read it again if you have read it at all. Or a little simple research should suffice these days. You do have a search engine don't you?
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" For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life". John 3:16
"So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” Genesis 6:7 So then the god of this verse went on to destroy all of the earth and its inhabitants.
How do the apologist square these two contradictory biblical verses? Even to the atheist reading these text as ancient mythology, it would not go unnoticed that these two verses speak of two different gods. Yet the Christians will have it that these beings are one and the same.
I suppose if one was to look hard enough we could say, at a push, that sending your only son to die an unnecessary death on behalf of others would qualify as a barbaric act and therefor equal the callous barbarity of the Genesis verse. But that would really be pushing it. As one appears to be an act of some kind of warped and twisted benevolence and the other a straightforward case of violence murdering millions of innocent men women and children.
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@fauxlaw
Poor in spirit. You misread me. I said poor is spirit is not a complete lack of spirituality, but lacking more than one wants to have.
No, what you said was " "poor in spirit >>>>is not<<<<<a reference to someone who lacks spirituality". Then you said " it's an admission of insufficiency",
Insufficient where I come from means to be lacking in something. i.e. not enough; inadequate.
so why parse them according to which attitude earns what reward?
That would be Jesus who has done that. You seem to be ignorant of that fact. Why would the Christ even divide and categorize individuals with certain qualities and appear to judge one quality over another?
Reading a passage and really studying it for what it says is two different activities altogether.
How patronising.
I have studied the SoM, in three languages, as it happens,
So? Heaven still means heaven in any language does it not? And god also means god in any language does it not?
and have realized that the attitudes described are listed in order of increasing difficulty to fulfill;
I think that is your opinion. And even your education of languages doesn't qualify you to say what is hard or easy for the individual. This is not to mention that the Sermon on the Mount is simply a collection of sayings from many philosophies from around the world and from before and after Jesus is said to have existed. In other words, they are not exclusive to Jesus as the New Testament author will have us believe.
are not a random list.
They are and this is why they make no sense at all . Like I have said, why are not the "pure in heart" or "the merciful" or "the meek" called the children of god?
Yet you ask why, again,
I do. Because you are not supporting what you say. You are simply presenting your opinions as fact. Stop taking me for a dummy.
the rewards are specific to each attitude.
Why? and you haven't explained what it actually means to be "pure in heart" either
And It also may have escaped your attention that in the NT beatitudes there is absolutely no value given to our current lives, the only lives we can sure of.
This is not to mention how flawed the whole sermon is. It all seems very well to say "pure in heart" "the merciful" "the meek" and "the peacemakers" will see god, be called children of god and inherit the heavens. But to be offering compensation for these things, rather than telling that true morality only takes place when you want to do what you are doing, is educationally and developmentally debilitating. It teaches followers to do good things to get into Heaven and see god , not to do good things simply because it is the right thing to do.
I also am fluent in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs,
Good for you. The so called Lords Prayer is an Egyptian prayer. Parallels in the Lord's Prayer and The Coming Into Day can be found in the Egyptian Book of the Dead.
As are Moses' Ten Commandments. These too are Egyptian adapted from the Papyrus to Ani also from the Book Of The Dead. Moses simply turned pleas of innocence - I have not - into dictates of - thou shalt not . But we can leave that for another thread.
Have you read anything By E.A. Wallace Budge. I read all of his work over 30 years ago.
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@fauxlaw
Why do I feel like this forum is directed against me?
I don't know. Such is the nature of internet forums. People will think themselves to be the victim or play the victim simply because someone apposes their views, opinions or beliefs. Heat & kitchen springs to mind.
"Poor in spirit" is not a reference to someone who lacks spirituality.
I see and how do you know what it means. Did you learn the meaning of "poor in spirit" from scripture?
It's not an accusation; it's an admission of insufficiency,
Then that would mean to be lacking in something then. But above you have clearly stated to be "poor in spirit is not a reference to someone who lacks spirituality".
Meek is not the equivalent of weak.
I know what meek means. You didn't answer the question concerning the "meek".
Mercy. An interesting take on the idea that if God were truly omnipotent, He would end all suffering. Now you've brought God into a discussion in which you claim it takes a belief in God to have merit.
Have I? Where have I spoke of ending suffering? I have said it doesn't take a belief in god to be "meek". And I didn't mention gods omnipotence either. This is what I actually wrote >>>" And If mercy is such a great virtue then why wouldn't god show mercy to the merciless"?
Am I going to have to continually repeat what i wrote and hope you read what I actually wrote and not what you want me to have written? This is how straw man arguments are created. You interpret what I say wrong and then carry on the argument from your own interpretation and not my own. This is a " so what you mean is" or a "so what your saying is" situation. It is a devious practice that comes about when some feels they have to respond with something anything to a awkward and sometimes embarrassing question.
It is more difficult to be a peacemaker than it is to be poor in spirit.
Your evidence for that is what exactly?
I did read all of your post and frankly speaking for the best part had nothing to with my questions and was just your own opinions than they where answers to what I had actually asked..
who cares how they are given out. All are given.
I do. So let us try this simply question again:
Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Why? Why are not the "pure in heart" called the children of god? Or "the merciful"? Or "the meek"?
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The sermon On The Mount is by all accounts about rewards in heaven and seeing god .
So lets look at a random few of these beatitudes said to have been spoken by The Christ himself.
Matthew 5:3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.".
I have been accused of being extremely poor in spirit by a few people here where they have politely added that I would "burn in hell". But those same people never have they been able to (1) tell me where heaven is, (2)what it is (3) and what happens when I get there. And you can imagine the giant swerves, stumbles and stuttering for words when I point out what Jesus says about the likes of me and my lack of spirit?
Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
I believe we can all be meek at times depending on the situation. It doesn't take a belief in god. Besides, why will the meek only inherit the earth and not share in the kingdom of heaven with the much less poor inspirit? It makes no sense.
Matthew 5:7
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Is this a threat? What about those who have shown no mercy? And If mercy is such a great virtue then why wouldn't god show mercy to the merciless?
Matthew 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
What does it even mean to be pure in heart? And aren't we all born sinners anyway? and what about the peacemakers and the merciful and meek? will they not see god?
Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Why? Why are not the "pure in heart" called the children of god? Or "the merciful"? Or "the meek"?
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@BrotherDThomas
EtrnlVw where he actually had the audacity to call Jesus a LIAR,
Well he has just condemned all of Christianity to the flames, hasn't he? : with this anti Christian gobbledygook
EtrnlVw wrote post #32The Noah's Ark tale is just a story, not an application. The only things in scripture that are important are things that are actually applicable, stories are nice and may contain valuable lessons but they aren't a requirement for anything that's silly. Noah's Ark is no more relevant than Moby Dick in terms of a persons spiritual condition and progress. Things that are applicable are the things a person can actually DO.
I am still waiting for a response to my questions on what other biblical stories from these scriptures we can regard a being "silly" and that are not "applicable" to Christians or Christianity.
Are Christians now to simply regard the story of the Christ's death and resurrection, the very foundation of Christianity, as "just silly story" ?
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@EtrnlVw
Ok. Not to mention you being so wrong about every word in your post above as perfectly demonstrated by the Brother at post #23No, nothing was demonstrated by that lunatic lol, and he's probably an atheist not a Christian.
He demonstrated how wrong you was and still are, perfectly. And your own embarrassment won't be cloaked just because you deny it. And If he is an atheist then he has more than proven that he knows these scriptures much better than you , doesn't he. Which is another reason for you to feel embarrassed.
No, nothing was demonstrated by that lunatic lol, [.................]He's just pretending to be one to make believers look like wackos.
Calling someone "lunatic" and a "wacko" will not win you an argument.
tell me, so what else is there in the scriptures that does not have to be believed by a Christian?The Noah's Ark tale is just a story, not an application.
Opinion
The only things in scripture that are important are things that are actually applicable,
More opinion
stories are nice and may contain valuable lessons but they aren't a requirement for anything that's silly.
So is the story of a rotting and stinking four day old corpse coming to life just a "silly story"?
What about a man dying, nailed to a cross after being beaten almost to death then coming back to life three days later? is that just a "silly story"?
Keeping in mind that the resurrection is the very foundation on which Christianity is built on.
"And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.1 Corinthians 15:14"
You really aught to learn your own scriptures.
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@RoderickSpode
It may be hard to believe, but when I started this thread, I wasn't thinking about Stephen's top 10 scriptures on what allegedly makes Christians uncomfortable.
I am clearly aware of what the thread is about. The title, your title, that you seem to have forgotten is a question which I have addressed and answered. You don't seem to like that at all yet would be the first to complain that I hadn't even addresses it, if I hadn't done so. What's the matter with you man.
Why do you think I have to list everything you think makes Christians uncomfortable?
I don't. But I presented my own reasons why Christians should "uncomfortable with THE BIBLE. But YOU keep forgetting it was THE BIBLE that YOU have brought into question and have concentrated on one aspect of. I am simply saying that there is more than one aspect of THE BIBLE that Christians have to feel uncomfortable and embarrassed an ashamed about.
For the record, I actually do like to start out on these types of atheist concerns with examples that might be considered less dramatic.
You are discussing the BIBLE. Do you not understand your own title? You asked a question>>>> "is THE BIBLE uncomfortable for Christians"? I have said yes and stated why.
You seem to like to drown a topic by going all over the map with multiple allegations.
No. I answered your question and pointed out that Christians have much more to feel uncomfortable about than the laws of god which you have already highlighted.
If they're copied and pasted from a website,
There is nothing copied and pasted in my first post #12, I gave my take and nothing more, IE, I addressed your question.. It wasn't until my second post #14 that I felt that I had to give an example of what and why Christians have to be more uncomfortable with. I haven't Copied and pasted a single thing with this exception. >>>>>"Blessed is he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks".Psalm 137:9. Yes I copied that little violent verse from the bible hub as just one single example why Christians should not only feel "uncomfortable" but also downright ashamed and embarrassed, and for the simple reason that is was quicker to do so than to type it out.https://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm
"Blessed is he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks".Psalm 137:9.That's in the book of Psalms. That's not a quotation from God.
Yes and tell me, is the book of Psalms IN THE BIBLE!!!!!!? The very book that you ask "is uncomfortable for Christians"? The very book we are supposed to be discussing? What the hell is the matter with you you man!
If you wanted to discuss what GOD has to say and why Christians should be "uncomfortable with what GOD has to say then you have titled you thread wrong , haven't you?
Well your not going to take control of this thread.
I didn't come onto this thread to take over it. I came on to answer YOUR question that YOU posed to the whole forum, and I have done so. It is up to you if you take what I have had to say any further, but don't think I will not respond to anything you say in response to my own or anyone else's comments. I remind you again. This is a religion discussion forum, not a religious pulpit.
I specifically provided one example, that actually is considered a major evil allegation against God by atheist drama queens.
OK. So what? And I have simply addressed your question and give my reasons why. Stop whining
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@RoderickSpode
I don't think anyone's initial intention was to see you trapped in a corner,
I am not trapped anywhere. It is your own biblical scriptures that contradicts you and have caused you to paint yourself into a tight corner as shown throughout this thread.
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@EtrnlVw
Well you know you aren't required to believe it, it won't change your relation or belief sin God. So, it doesn't really matter whether it happened or not. That doesn't mean there is no useful information in the Bible either, but you aren't required to believe in the Noah's Ark account as a literal account.
Ok. Not to mention you being so wrong about every word in your post above as perfectly demonstrated by the Brother at post #23, tell me, so what else is there in the scriptures that does not have to be believed by a Christian?
How about the parting of sea that measures 438,000 km² with a wave of a stick?
Or The killing of thousand + people only armed with a jawbone of an animal?
Or
Walking on water?
Or
Feeding 9,000 people with just a few loaves and even less fish?
Or
Making a four day old stinking and rotting corpse comeback to life?
Or
What about a man dying, nailed to a cross after being beaten almost to death then coming back to life three days later?
Does not a Christian have to believe in any of the above?
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@RoderickSpode
I have read the above three times now looking for the words - actions of . Look at your title again.Why were you looking for the words actions of?
Because there is more for Christians to feel "unconfortable" about in the Bible than just " biblical laws" that you seem to be addressing as some great uncomfortable concern for Christians.. I have shown my points above, but you must have missed them.
from my post #12 above
"The vile, indiscriminate and murderous actions of your "loving god". This is not to mention all of the double standards and contradictions shown in THE BIBLE. There's also the ambiguous half stories and the secrecy and lies. <<<< These are what I believe should make Christians uncomfortable when highlighted.
Why would I have to look at my title again?
Because your only concern about THE BIBLE is to do with the laws laid down by god and you have failed to address the bible as whole. You title does ask
So yes the bible is or should be uncomfortable for Christians and for the reasons I have pointed out to you above. And I have shown why Christians should not only feel uncomfortable with THE BIBLE but should also be down right embarrassed by it! Example :
"Blessed is he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks".Psalm 137:9.
That vile verse above - one of hundreds - embarrasses me as a human being never mind if I was a member of any religious ideology. But Christians wouldn't think twice about adding to their own embarrassment by trying to defend this barbarity. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< that is something else they should feel uncomfortable about.
One thing at a time is the best way to approach it. [...................] , why not address the example I gave?
What more do you want? I addressed and answered your question and gave my reasons why. I don't need to address what you say or think about god and his laws. I have addressed "THE BIBLE" and why it should be "uncomfortable for Christians".
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@Alec
Noah's ark doesn't make sense
Of course it doesn't and never will if taken as written. Its a lie a bare faced lie and if there was to found any truth to it, it would be as it is written in the bible.
You have picked a good subject that could go on for pages or die withing ten posts. Start by asking the apologist how did wombats and kangaroos, Emu, eastern brown snake, tiger snake,wolf spider,wedge-tailed eagle, banjo frog and Blue-tongued skink, Koala, Echidna, Wombat and MILLIONS more get onto the Ark. Then there is the logistics of the food. the koala mainly eats eucalyptus leaves. You should be able to see already how stupid this story is as it is conveyed to us in the unreliable scriptures.
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@RoderickSpode
I think most of the suggestions of the God of the Bible being a tyrant revolves around laws. And since there are numerous laws presented in the Bible, it would stand for reason that many people would take this view since man-made laws produce conflict all of the time.The misconception would be an assumption that Christians are uncomfortable with biblical laws (or whatever else) due to embarrassment. This however is not the case. For instance, even if I agree with every American law in principle, it doesn't mean I won't face a certain amount of discomfort. For instance, I want to make a U-Turn at a stop light, but the sign reads "No U-Turn", so I have to drive further down the road until I can make a U-Turn, or make a left turn into the shopping center to make a turn around in there. I know I have enough room to make the U-Turn, but unless I break that law, I'm going to lose time. I'm faced with an uncomfortable, or certainly inconvenient situation. But.....I'm not embarrassed by the law. I trust that there's a good reason for not allowing U-Turns at that stop light, and know that it's not placed there to aggravate me.
I have read the above three times now looking for the words - actions of . Look at your title again.
Is the Bible uncomfortable for Christians?
You for some reason have concentrated only on gods laws in the bible and pointed to only this as to what you believe may make some Christians uncomfortable.
Not once have you mentioned that the bible makes Christians uncomfortable because of the vile, indiscriminate and murderous actions of your "loving god". This is not to mention all of the double standards and contradictions shown in THE BIBLE. There's also the ambiguous half stories and the secrecy and lies. <<<< These are what I believe should make Christians uncomfortable when highlighted.
All of the above are problematic not to mention embarrassing for Christians, and when these prickly sticky awkward points are raised and highlighted , as I often do , I can see how uncomfortable Christians become. this is not to mention how dismissive of the facts they are, even biblical ones.
I find it quite strange that you have only concentrated on one tiny aspect of THE BIBLE and not mentioned any its dire faults that are most definitely an uncomfortable embarrassment to Christians.
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@Tyrant_Rex
Not on the clear instructions of The Christ they haven't.And that can be construed in many ways just as Muslims can say the same thing about Muhammed.
Nope. You couldn't be more wrong. But no one is surprised by that, especially me.
I am fully conversant with the Bible and in particular the New Testament:
No you are not. The Koran has specific instructions from god to his followers to kill anyone who refuses to bend the knee and submit to him and his ideology, Islam. It promotes intolerance and tells it adherents to fight until ALL religion is for Allah. . So stop lying , you know nothing of either of these ideologies.
And fight them until there is no fitnah and[until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed,Allah is Seeing of what they do.
Surah 9:5 - "Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush".
Quran 51 - You, who have believed, do not take the Jews andthe Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoeveris an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allahguides not the wrongdoing people.
Jesus did pretty much threaten doom and gloom upon his return
This does not amount to clear instruction to his followers to go out into the world and rape, murder and maim in his name, as does the barbaric koran. You are struggling for a comparison where there isn't one.
My point is that both religions are good and bad.
That is an opinion. If you believe that submitting to god is good and following all of his laws and dictates to rape, take slaves, rape and murder anyone who doesn't believe in him is " good" then there is something the matter with you . You will find no such instructions coming from The Christ in the New Testament.
Muslims and Christians are peace-loving
I am not discussing individual followers am I. So stop with you snide and deceitful BS. Your beginning to act and sound like that other deceitful member here Kieth Prosser who, when discussing matters of ISLAM,. he would always turn these arguments towards the followers to steer away from the vile and disgusting facts when he found himself on the back foot. You know perfectly well I am talking of the IDEOLOGIES and not individual followers of either faith. It is ISLAM that is the problem for Muslims because of its vile and violent ideology and beliefs and instruction to its adherents. You will be telling me next that Islam is a race, just like all of those other apologist who find themselves on the back foot when trying to defend against such barbaric practices and intolerance that is ISLAM.
Oh, and for years I had to personally dodge the brutal killing and violence of the IRA virtually on my doorstep. Talking to those Republicans and they will all tell you that what they do is in the name of Jesus Christ.
More diversion and BS . "The Troubles" were about creating a untied Ireland by force and against the will of the majority, and only sectarian in part. But I won't expect you to know the difference.The IRA in the end simply all turned out to be gangsters running all kinds of criminal rackets. And still are for the best part. And like I have already stated a billion times for you now, they were not doing what they did on the instructions of The Christ and trying to convert the world to a Christianity ideology. If you know different, then simply put up your evidence for your and outrageous claim . You seem confident enough, so lets see it,
Talking to those Republicans and they will all tell you that what they do is in the name of Jesus Christ.
Lets us all see your documented evidence for that actually being the case.
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@Tyran_Orex
You are correct but there is a slight difference. One will attempt to convert the world to its way of thinking using violence given the chance and the other does not.They both do and have continued to do so over the centuries.
Not on the clear instructions of The Christ they haven't. You need to get some reading done. Take just a quick flip through the Koran and you won't fail (well you might) to see who is demanding death for those who refuse to convert to Islam and accept Allah as their god and the Prophet Muhammad as his messenger.
I will agree that the ancient god of the Old Testament is a vile and vicious megalomaniac that the Christians have somehow, and quite stupidly amalgamated with a gentle - turn the other cheeks - love your neighbor and give him all your belongings - kind of god. This is why they are forever running into problems in explaining away the vile vindictive cruelty of Yahweh / Jesus, their very own anointed one.
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@Tyran_Orex
Anyone who didn't come down in the last shower would know that Muslims and Christians each claim their respective religion to be the sole pathway to God.
You are correct but there is a slight difference. One will attempt to convert the world to its way of thinking using violence given the chance and the other does not.
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@Melcharaz
YOUR OPINION ON GREEK WORDS MEANS BEANS.
As does yours on ancient Hebrew and Aramaic. But it doesn't stop you trying to force foreign and ancient meanings and definitions to biblical words written in English.
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@EtrnlVw
The biblical evidence for the origins of evil keeps mountingLol no it doesn't,
It does and you have been shown it repeatedly. You just want to rewrite and redefine words to fit your narrative. You are stuck in the past. You have lumbered yourselves with an ancient god with wild, intolerant psychotic nature. This is why you have so much trouble with the scriptures . You are forever on the back foot trying to justify the callous and vile actions of a god that you have adopted without knowing anything at all about the time and place in which this maniac arose. And this is why teachers of my time and now are reluctant to teach about the Old Testament god but prefer to preach about Jesus and his fluffy god " who loves us". When the reality is that, just an hour or two reading of the OT proves that god was a warmongering jealous god or war and we were ten a penny to be disposed of and discarded on a whim.
God sanctioned the murder of all of Jobs children, but that was ok, wasn't it? Because god simply replaced them with more. This is the mind of a really sick being, But you will continue to attempt to justify this maniac with all sorts of lame and ridiculous excuses.
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@RoderickSpode
Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol
Yes . I have found you do quite a lot of "lol"- ing once you have been shown just how incredibly bible ignorant you actually are. Is you're "lol-ing" out of sheer embarrassment. It looks like it is to me. Now you have chosen that well worn path that ALL Christian apologists here take and have decided to rudely and ignorantly create a false argument on someone else's thread and turned everything personal. <<<<<<<<<<<< this does not win arguments Roderick!!
Your own scriptures have PROVEN you to be completely wrong. And all your attempts to rewrite biblical verses and redefine the words therein will not change that fact. So you keep lol - ling like school girl and I will simply enjoy watching you stutter and stumble over every single awkward, embarrassing and ambiguous biblical chapter and verse that I highlight .
Brother D knows he's in a corner.
No that'll be you. He isn't in any corner and it would take more than you to put the Brother on the ropes where bible matters are concerned. Your problem is, is that he knows these scriptures inside out and is honest about them and you don't and aren't.
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@zedvictor4
Though I think that I am correct in saying that Lucifer is an Old English word derived from the Latin Lux, meaning light + fer, meaning bearing. referring particularly to the morning star, which is in fact the Planet Venus.
Yes I have read that.
Isaiah 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
I am sure that this will be vehemently denied by Christians as referring to Satan aka Lucifer. And for one simple reason. Jesus (their god) also calls himself;
" the rootand offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.” (Revelation 22:16)…In otherwords, Lucifer– Satan!
This verse from revelation must be one of the most controversial verses in the entire Bible.
It appears too that St Jerome is in full agreement with you.
On Isaiah, it is said St. Jerome, translated the Hebrew “morningstar” into the Latin term “Lucifer” (light bearer), a name commonly ascribed toSatan by Christians, and represents the fallen star, an ancient symbol for thefallen or evil one.
So I think I can see why that on my other thread not a single theist would offer up the name Lucifer as another name for Satan the ancient serpent, while forever equating the two as one.
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I opened a thread asking by what other names or titles Satan went by. From among the few came the name Lucifer.
A search on the name has many theological and biblical web sites claiming to know who Lucifer is and where about in the bible we can reference him. I will pick just two of the hundreds that make the same or similar claims. ; "20 bible verses about Lucifer". Of course, when we read these verses Lucifer isn't mentioned once never mind 20!?
Bible Verses about Lucifer
Compiled and Edited by Bible Study Tools Staff on 4/11/2018
And to this site https://www.christianity.com/theology/theological-faq/how-did-lucifer-fall-and-become-satan-11557519.html it attempts to explain who Lucifer is by asking a question ;
"How Did Lucifer Fall and Become Satan"? and goes on to make this bold statement; "The story of Lucifer’s fall is described in two key Old Testament chapters—Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14. Let’s briefly look at both of these. ". At least this site makes the claim that Satan and Lucifer are one and the same, as someone did on the thread mentioned above. But with no evidence that this is in fact the case.
Yet when we do, surprise, surprise , we find not single mention of Lucifer in either Isaiah or Ezekiel. Why do they do this. why do they have to continually lie and make things up as they go. It appears that Christians are all for ' we'll answer that question if and when it arises ' . but it must have arisen some time ago and the excuses and answers for such a character existing are so weak and worn out that they can all be dismissed with ease.
Lucifer simply isn't mentioned in the bible at all, anywhere. Yet Christians will speak of this being as if he was a regular character who is accused of many heinous crimes.
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@fauxlaw
Who's at fault for religion, anyway?
Man. And Priests in particular. hundreds of thousands of years ago, there was no such thing as religion or worship until the priests - who were only employed to do the gofer-ring for the lords decided to usurp the kings and work direct with (dominate) the people. They cut out the middle man: the Lugal, Pharaoh or King.
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@BrotherDThomas
Besides, Amos in this following passage denotes that Yahweh/Jesus is the cause of evil again: “Shall there be EVIL in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6)
Indeed Brother. The biblical evidence for the origins of evil keeps mounting yet the apologist will deny what it is that the scripture actually states and means. They will continuously rewrite and redefine words to suite their narrative to make is appear that the ancient god of the Hebrews - that they adopted without even understanding anything about him - is a fluffy nice god who loves us all and who wouldn't harm a insect let a lone his greatest creation of all: we human beings.
I may not agree with much of what you believe Brother , but I do appreciate you at least can admit that your god is psychopath , prone to murdering just about anything that can fly, walk, talk, swim or crawl on a whim.
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