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@EtrnlVw
I corrected myself it was a mistype. Try again.
I agree it was obviously a schoolboy mistake for you to make. But it was clearly your attention span that I had brought into question. And your silly school boy mistake clearly proved my point that you didn't posses an attention span of any duration.
After I had criticized your attention span, this is what followed:
how does that show your attention span to be Stevie??
Much better than yours. it is alert, functioning and sharper too.
I have had to point out to you many, many times , that your own attention span is not too strong and you have proven me to be correct on many many occasions, such as here - AGAIN below you have produced for me yet another example of your own child-like attention span;
Since Jesus WAS baptized by Jesus, my answer is still "Why would they expect others to perform something they had not underwent themselves?"It doesn't matter that John was not baptized, he wanted to be baptized, so my answers are the same.
Jesus by all accounts was baptised by John the Baptiser (you even say so yourself). Jesus did not baptise himself now did he? It was John the baptiser - clues in the title.
Yes, EtrnlVw John the baptizer actually baptized people, thousands of them INCLUDING JESUS. PAY ATTENTION!!!!!
So now I appear to have your attention. I will take advantage and ask you to tackle these little posers. Plaes take your time I wouldn't want you to have to keep correcting yourself AGAIN it only clutters up my thread.
QUESTIONS GONE UNANSWERED BY THE RESIDENT DEVOUT.
What had caused John the Baptist, the greatest prophet and "more than a prophet" to doubt Jesus in the first place?
Why would John “need” to be baptised twice.
Who baptised John in the first place
What was the reason behind this particular baptism of Jesus?
And why did Jesus come to John for this anointing?
What authority did John have to perform such a ritual?
Where, as was asked in the scripture, did John get such authority?
What qualified John to perform this ritual?
Why didn’t Jesus baptise John the Baptiser after John had said “I need to be baptized by you”? Matthew 3:14
Why did the Baptist say “I NEED to be” Baptised by Jesus?
Why was “the greatest prophet that ever lived” so mistaken and confused as to whom should be baptising whom?
What caused John to believe that Jesus should be baptizing him in the first place?Matthew 3:13
Why John had forbid Jesus to be baptized in the first place?
Why did John ... the baptizer,eventually agree to baptize Jesus after he had “forbade him” to be, - that is to say John the Baptist refused to allow, Jesus to be baptized. So whatever could have caused John to change of mind? Matthew 3:14 King James Version (KJV)
How did John the Baptist recognise Jesus as “the one to come after him”? John’s gospel at first says:
John1 : 29 “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith,Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world”.
But he doesn’t tell us how he knew it to be him?
John’s gospel later adds this: John 1 : 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
And at John 1 : 33 John, for some unfathomable reason tells us that he didn’t even know Jesus. This; after pointing him out as the Lamb of God just three verses earlier at verse 29!?
And then at 34 The Baptist spouts this: “I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One. How did he know”?
What caused John the Baptist to lose his faith and doubt concerning if or not Jesus was indeed the “Chosen one to come”? John was after all, the “greatest prophet to have ever lived”.
Matthew 11:1-3
“Art thou he that should come,or do we look for another”?
They may as well have started looking for another messiah as this particular “Chosen one” was to go on to fail in his mission whatever one chooses believe that mission was. Besides, there were plenty of Messiahs around in Palestine at the time and all vying for a piece of the action, the choice must have been overwhelming for the illiterate gullible masses.
It also appears that "ALL" believed or at least questioned if or not the baptist himself was the Messiah!!!
Luke 3:15 King JamesVersion (KJV)
15 And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not
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@BrotherDThomas
YOU WERE ENLIGHTENED BY THE BROTHER D. IN YOUR POST #20 BY ESSENTIALLY ADMITTING THTA YOU WERE BLATANTLY BIBLE IGNORANT TO BAPTISM:Because of your newly founded enlightenment that baptism does wash away your sins, whereas before you were embarrassingly oblivious to this biblical axiom, you now saw your biblical errors. To try and save face again, you use a smoke screen to hide your bible ignorance and state that “repentance” has to be included within the baptism verses that I enlightened you with. Whereas before, you stated overall that baptism did not wash away sins in the first place! LOL! Oh my, how embarrassing can you get within this forum?
Yes straw clutching and goalpost moving at it best Brother.
Maybe you need a rest from DEBATEART, because why take this continued Bible Slapping from me and others because you just don’t know the bible as well as you think you do. You are excused to go lick your wounds once again. :(
He has just returned from a well earned rest Brother, but it appears it didn't do him any good at all. Not long before his rest he was having his praises sung from the highest of temple. .
Post 15 & 16 https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3347/one-of-the-most-enigmatic-verse-in-all-christianity?
Only to be knocked down by his own arrogance ego and compulsive lies. Post 18 https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3024/public-moderation-log
Date: 12/23/2019
Moderator: Joint-moderator decision
ethang5 has been banned for 14-days for a continuous pattern of violations of the personal attacks section of the COC, with hate speech serving as an aggravating factor.
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And what about Job. A man that was blameless and upright; He feared God and shunned evil.
After the lord tore down his house slaughtered his family and livestock and his servants, god rewarded him with thousand of sheep and oxen and camels . He must have made his one of the richest people around.
Did Job "enter the kingdom of god"?
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@Mopac
My argument is that if you don't believe God exists,
That is a big assumption. I believe that there were many "gods" here a very long time ago and that they "left like migrating birds".
it is because you don't understand what is being discussed.
I do. It is to discuss "your" favorite argument concerning the "existence of god". So lets here your argument that god exists. And it has to be your favorite argument.
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@Mopac
Stop talking to me please, I don't care what you have to say.
You come back to this topic 10 days later not to contribute to it, but to save face?Real classy
You have said that I have to "save face". Whatever for? You cannot make those types of claims and not expect anyone to ask you what it is I have to "save face" for of from.
You didn't need to respond at all come to that. But you came back with a ridiculous comment. So please explain or simply retract it. Its not to hard is it?
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@ethang5
But you seemed to be implying that you'd only be an observer in the new thread.
Wrong. You start any thread you like sunshine. I have no power to stop you and wouldn't if I could. So you just go ahead princess, it will be nice to read your own take on these ambiguous biblical half stories.
Is all I ever had personally from you is lies trying to defend them. So you just lay it right on out there and let us all know the full extent of your biblical and theological knowledge and beliefs.. I honestly cannot wait to read your inspiring take and thoughts on biblical matters that you spend all your time lying about .
So when you are ready you just fire away. And Please, do remember to let me know when you have created a thread of your own.
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I could make 5 separate threads on the questions of mine you've dodged.
Please, Please, then do it. I would be very interested.
Meantime try answering these awkward and embarrassing questions.
QUESTIONS GONE UNANSWERED BY THE RESIDENT DEVOUT.
What had caused John the Baptist, the greatest prophet and "more than a prophet" to doubt Jesus in the first place?
Why would John “need” to be baptised twice.
Who baptised John in the first place
What was the reason behind this particular baptism of Jesus?
And why did Jesus come to John for this anointing?
What authority did John have to perform such a ritual?
Where, as was asked in the scripture, did John get such authority?
What qualified John to perform this ritual?
Why didn’t Jesus baptise John the Baptiser after John had said “I need to be baptized by you”? Matthew 3:14
Why did the Baptist say “I NEED to be” Baptised by Jesus?
Why was “the greatest prophet that ever lived” so mistaken and confused as to whom should be baptising whom?
What caused John to believe that Jesus should be baptizing him in the first place?Matthew 3:13
Why John had forbid Jesus to be baptized in the first place?
Why did John ... the baptizer,eventually agree to baptize Jesus after he had “forbade him” to be, - that is to say John the Baptist refused to allow, Jesus to be baptized. So whatever could have caused John to change of mind? Matthew 3:14 King James Version (KJV)
How did John the Baptist recognise Jesus as “the one to come after him”? John’s gospel at first says:
John1 : 29 “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith,Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world”.
But he doesn’t tell us how he knew it to be him?
John’s gospel later adds this: John 1 : 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
And at John 1 : 33 John, for some unfathomable reason tells us that he didn’t even know Jesus. This; after pointing him out as the Lamb of God just three verses earlier at verse 29!?
And then at 34 The Baptist spouts this: “I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One. How did he know”?
What caused John the Baptist to lose his faith and doubt concerning if or not Jesus was indeed the “Chosen one to come”? John was after all, the “greatest prophet to have ever lived”.
Matthew 11:1-3
“Art thou he that should come,or do we look for another”?
They may as well have started looking for another messiah as this particular “Chosen one” was to go on to fail in his mission whatever one chooses believe that mission was. Besides, there were plenty of Messiahs around in Palestine at the time and all vying for a piece of the action, the choice must have been overwhelming for the illiterate gullible masses.
It also appears that "ALL" believed or at least questioned if or not the baptist himself was the Messiah!!!
Luke 3:15 King JamesVersion (KJV)
15 And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not
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@Mopac
What we mean by "God" with a capital "G" is The Ultimate Reality.
You must have missed the question , Mopac. Here it is again, read it slowly;
What is your favorite argument for the existence of God?
So what is it? How best and in which way is your "favorite argument" for gods existence? And a dollop of supporting evidence will be nice too.
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@Mopac
You come back to this topic 10 days later not to contribute to it, but to save face?Real classy
Save face? For what!? And I didn't know that there was a rule concerning a time limit on when one can post a comment. Could you show me that rule and can you show us all where it is you think that I have "condemned rich people" like Jesus appears to do?
No I didn't think you could. You about as empty and redundant and spent as are all other devout Christians here when it comes to serious probing questions raised by these unreliable and ambiguous scriptures.
You are motivated by hatred, it's obvious.
No I am motivated by these anomalous ambiguous biblical half stories. And your total inability to defend them
You don't know what we believe,
Of course I do, silly billy. You believe in God, and Jesus and that the bible is the word of both them and the biblical writers. You believe in all of its purported miracles. You believe people were raised from the dead, but can never explain how this and many other miracles were actually achieved without invoking the supernatural.
and you are wasting your time with your crusade,
Opinion. And I am on no crusade, I don't have to defend a single thing and I am not preaching ; that will be your job, as all sheep of the flock of the shepherd Christ instructs you to do. It is called - The Great Commission, if my ever so old memory serves me correctly.
because you will never fool someone who is enlightened.
You are not understanding something here Mopac. Asking questions is not attempting to fool anyone. Such as this,
(A) Why did Jesus cure just a man of Leprosy and not cure all leprosy and banish it from the face of the earth altogether?
(B) Show me how I am fooling or attempting to fool anyone with this question?
You only need to answer question (B) because I understand that you have absolutely no chance of answering question (A), you are not "enlightened" enough.
So, when you are ready.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Your question is partially answered by verse 21 of the chapter
21 "Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me".
Yes I thought someone would mention this but your reply is not taking into account what I wrote: >>>" when we consider that he had surrounded himself with very rich and influential disciples".
Just to mention two. The Pharisee Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. I don't think his position on a ruling council of the Sanhedrin would qualify him as poor. This was a truly a loyal and devout servant of the Christ too, if we are to believe these scriptures So much so that he would have been killed had his fellow Jews knew he was visiting Jesus "in secret".
And of course there was Joseph of Aramathea also rich and influential also a member of the council . He along with Nicodemus took charge of the anointing and burial of Christ. They were extremely trusted and loyal to Jesus anointing Jesus with the most expensive of oils. Who also feared the Jews and was a secret disciple.
And this council wasn't your local busy bodies simply issuing rules and regulations on a local level telling people what kind of waste to put in what coloured trash bin.. No These were high ranking priests of Sanhedrin and presented as a political and judicial council headed by the high priest - they were judges. And that is just to name two. Hardly poor are they?
So with that said, I don't remember reading where Jesus takes these two loyal disciples to task about their wealth.
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"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God." Matthew 19:24
This seem a very bias and hypocritical statement coming from the Christ when we consider that he had surrounded himself with very rich and influential disciples.
What was wrong with pious rich men entering the kingdom of god?
Why would it be less easier for a rich man than it would for a less well off man to enter the kingdom of god?
And what is actually meant by "the kingdom of God"?
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@Mopac
They were all rich. Jesus had surrounded himself with RICH influential people with business' and high positions. You can deny this fact as much as you like but your scripture makes it quite clear.I don't need to deny anything, you are the one condemning rich people.
No. I think that if there was any condemnation concerning rich people, that it comes from the Lord Jesus himself:
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."Matthew 19:24
I have no reason to "condemn" anyone, rich or poor, as long as they have not done me or mine any harm. You nee to polish up on your bible studies mopac.
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@ethang5
But you, and most other atheists never give us a chance to present our argument.
BOO fkn HOO. Stop lying, again. You and every other theist here have every opportunity to present and defend any single theological argument of your choice. No one can stop you. Stop playing victim just for once. ffs.
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@ethang5
I could make 5 separate threads on the questions of mine you've dodged.
Please, Please, then do it. I would be very interested.
Look at who that post is addressed to genius.
I did and surprisingly!!!! I seen that you lied, AGAIN"""" . And regardless of who the post was to, this didn't stop you hounding me concerning a post I directed towards Mopac, now did it, you hypocritical LIAR!!!!.? You even followed me onto another thread because you had taken offence on mopacs behalf. So away with your double standards, your hypocrisy AND ALL of your fkn lies. And start answering some questions.
I did not deny any verses have the word "baptism in them poor reader.
And now you are lying AGAIN, about the same thing, AGAIN after it has been pointed outta you FIVE FKN TIMES !!!!!!!!! that you are lying.
This is you at post 28 >>
"Not a single verse you offered mentioned baptism,
And here are the verses
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.” (Acts 22:16)“Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. “(Acts 2:38)“John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.” (Mark 1:4-5)“And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.” (Luke 3:3)
I count four time the mention of the word baptism. I also can see the words " FOR forgivness of sins". Which something else you insist on denying.
QUESTIONS GONE UNANSWERED BY THE RESIDENT DEVOUT.
What had caused John the Baptist, the greatest prophet and "more than a prophet" to doubt Jesus in the first place?
Why would John “need” to be baptised twice.
Who baptised John in the first place
What was the reason behind this particular baptism of Jesus?
And why did Jesus come to Johnfor this anointing?
What authority did John have to perform such a ritual?
Where, as was asked in the scripture, did John get such authority?
What qualified John to perform this ritual?
Why didn’t Jesus baptise John the Baptiser after John had said “I need to be baptized by you”? Matthew3:14
Why did the Baptist say “I NEED to be” Baptised by Jesus?
Why was “the greatest prophet that ever lived” so mistaken and confused as to whom should be baptising whom?
What caused John to believe that Jesus should be baptizing him in the first place?Matthew 3:13
Why John had forbid Jesus to be baptized in the first place?
Why did John ... the baptizer,eventually agree to baptize Jesus after he had “forbade him” to be, - that is to say John the Baptist refused to allow, Jesus to be baptized. So whatever could have caused John to change of mind? Matthew 3:14 King James Version (KJV)
How did John the Baptist recognise Jesus as “the one to come after him”? John’s gospel at first says:
John1 : 29 “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith,Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world”.
But he doesn’t tell us how he knew it to be him?
John’s gospel later adds this: John 1 : 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
And at John 1 : 33 John, for some unfathomable reason tells us that he didn’t even know Jesus. This; after pointing him out as the Lamb of God just three verses earlier at verse 29!?
And then at 34 The Baptist spouts this: “I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One. How did he know”?
What caused John the Baptist to lose his faith and doubt concerning if or not Jesus was indeed the “Chosen one to come”? John was after all, the “greatest prophet to have ever lived”.
Matthew 11:1-3
“Art thou he that should come,or do we look for another”?
They may as well have started looking for another messiah as this particular “Chosen one” was to go on to fail in his mission whatever one chooses believe that mission was. Besides, there were plenty of Messiahs around in Palestine at the time and all vying for a piece of the action, the choice must have been overwhelming for the illiterate gullible masses.
It also appears that "ALL" believed or at least questioned if or not the baptist himself was the Messiah!!!
Luke 3:15 King JamesVersion (KJV)
15 And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I'm a Pieces btw hahaha, love coidences like that.
Well, your time is up my friend. We are now almost in the another age and Jesus' (the fish) time has passed or about to. the earth is closer to the sun and the backdrop to the rising sun on the spring equinox is showing Aquarius the water carrier. The church won't like you knowing these facts, but ask yourself, why do the church spend £ millions on building their own telescopes around the globe and has its own school of astrologers as does Queen of England? Remember the wise men seeing a "star"? Not just any star, but "his star".
For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”Matthew 2:2
Coincidental; facts.
It may interest you to know that the pope's ring is called the "fisherman ring". This ring adorning the finger of a Pope in usually destroyed when a Pope dies and a new ring is forged for the new incoming elected Pope.
Pope Benedict XVI the last Popes ring wasn't destroyed. Indeed it is now housed in the Vatican museum where it can be viewed at certain times of the year.
Pope Benedict XVI retired from his post. this is supposed to be a position for life until death.
Across the water here in England the Archbishop of Canterbury C of E retired from a job that is supposed to be for life until death.
Both Pope Benedict and Archbishop Rowan Williams both stood down from their posts almost within days of one another. It had everything to do with the Calendar and what was going on above in the heavens.
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@Mopac
No one is calling anyone stupid except you,
I haven't called anyone stupid since my warning for calling someone (correctly) - stupid. nearly a year ago.
No. Most of the name calling of late has all come from you Mopac. So wind your neck in sunshine before I decide to list all the shite that you have thrown my way out of frustration in not being able to answer anything I have put to you, There's a good lad.
It should be obvious that the bible isn't in its proper context removed from the church.
Stop it!! FFS!! You mean not have it read and explained to me by someone who believes himself to be qualified. List, I have taken on many of those who believe themselves to be highly qualified in biblical matters yet buckle at one simple question, just like you do. that is because they were taught in exactly the same way as you have been taught. Get over it, I have questions aplenty. And I will keep asking them.
It isn't even simply a matter of interpretation.
It is exactly a matter of interpretation and who happens to have, or be, interpreting it. I just don't believe it the way you do. You do not have to engage me at all, do you?
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@ethang5
"Not a single verse you offered mentioned baptism",You are LYING AGAIN!!! those verses are there and you are simply LYING AGAIN to disrupt the thread MY THREAD... AGAIN.Look at who that post is addressed to genius. It isn't you,
IRRELEVANT!!!!!!!. It is on this thread. It concerns the subject matter of this thread - MY FKN thread, - that you are simply seem hell bent on disrupting and derailing simply for the hell of it and that you have no answers. Just leave thread. I have shown you FOUR FKN times now that you are WRONG.... AGAIN!!!!
I did not deny any verses have the word "baptism in them poor reader
MORE FKN LIES AND DENIAL This is you at post 28 >>
"Not a single verse you offered mentioned baptism,"
So ffs stop with your persistent lies and denials just for the fkn sake of it. You have been shown to be wrong again and then lying about it AGAIN!!!
I URGE anyone reading here to go to post 17 and read these verses for themselves that ethang 5 denies have the word "baptism" in them.
Post 17 page 1 where you will read in very clear writing the words concerning baptism
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.” (Acts 22:16)“Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. “(Acts 2:38)“John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.” (Mark 1:4-5)“And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.” (Luke 3:3)
I couldn't care less about your opinion.
GOOD then leave the fkn thread .It is that simple!!
QUESTIONS GONE UNANSWERED BY THE RESIDENT DEVOUT.
What had caused John the Baptist, the greatest prophet and "more than a prophet" to doubt Jesus in the first place?
Why would John “need” to be baptised twice.
Who baptised John in the first place
What was the reason behind this particular baptism of Jesus?
And why did Jesus come to Johnfor this anointing?
What authority did John have to perform such a ritual?
Where, as was asked in the scripture, did John get such authority?
What qualified John to perform this ritual?
Why didn’t Jesus baptise John the Baptiser after John had said “I need to be baptized by you”? Matthew3:14
Why did the Baptist say “I NEED to be” Baptised by Jesus?
Why was “the greatest prophet that ever lived” so mistaken and confused as to whom should be baptising whom?
What caused John to believe that Jesus should be baptizing him in the first place?Matthew 3:13
Why John had forbid Jesus to be baptized in the first place?
Why did John ... the baptizer,eventually agree to baptize Jesus after he had “forbade him” to be, - that is to say John the Baptist refused to allow, Jesus to be baptized. So whatever could have caused John to change of mind? Matthew 3:14 King James Version (KJV)
How did John the Baptist recognise Jesus as “the one to come after him”? John’s gospel at first says:
John1 : 29 “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith,Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world”.
But he doesn’t tell us how he knew it to be him?
John’s gospel later adds this: John 1 : 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
And at John 1 : 33 John, for some unfathomable reason tells us that he didn’t even know Jesus. This; after pointing him out as the Lamb of God just three verses earlier at verse 29!?
And then at 34 The Baptist spouts this: “I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One. How did he know”?
What caused John the Baptist to lose his faith and doubt concerning if or not Jesus was indeed the “Chosen one to come”? John was after all, the “greatest prophet to have ever lived”.
Matthew 11:1-3
“Art thou he that should come,or do we look for another”?
They may as well have started looking for another messiah as this particular “Chosen one” was to go on to fail in his mission whatever one chooses believe that mission was. Besides, there were plenty of Messiahs around in Palestine at the time and all vying for a piece of the action, the choice must have been overwhelming for the illiterate gullible masses.
It also appears that "ALL" believed or at least questioned if or not the baptist himself was the Messiah!!!
Luke 3:15 King JamesVersion (KJV)
15 And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not
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@ethang5
Not a single verse you offered mentioned baptism,Now that is just outright lies for the sake of fkn lying.I don't know if you're coming unhinged, but that post you answered was addressed to Dee Dee, not you.
It was on this thread and it was MORE BLATANT LYING!!!!!.
Here are the verses he offered.
You are LYING AGAIN!!! those verses are there and you are simply LYING AGAIN to disrupt the thread MY THREAD... AGAIN. You claimed falsely that
"Not a single verse you offered mentioned baptism",
I have shown you TWICE now that your are simply lying for the sake of LYING and argument and disruption. You have been shown to be wrong AGAIN!!!
Here are those verses that you keep denying have the word "baptism in them"...... AGAIN!!!
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.” (Acts 22:16)“Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. “(Acts 2:38)“John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.” (Mark 1:4-5)“And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.” (Luke 3:3)
Steven are you a JW or former JW?
Neither, and it is Stephen, PH,
Nothing you have posted here has gone anywhere in rebutting my opinion that John and Jesus were rivals. You are even too scared to attempt the questions, Your tag partner has made himself look a penis and left you all stranded on your lonesome. Never mind eh. Maybe he will be back when you have buried his glaring fk up. But it won't stay buried for long.
Now stop your unnecessary argumentative behavior and start answering those questions or simply leave the fkn thread . It is not a hard choice.
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@EtrnlVw
Alec wrote; Sadly, this is accurate bible. I think for now I’ll have to give God a passEtrnlVw responded: There's much more to God than a few twisted scriptures
" a few" !!? That is a play down of the facts of the many hundreds of cruel and vile "twisted" actions of "god".
and someone who is obviously provoking people.
"provoking people"?. Upsetting you and your beliefs I think is more truthful. You are offended, so what. Stating facts sometimes does upset and offend people. How fkn old are you. grow up.
(A)
your belief and trust in God should never hinge on any distorted or corrupted ideas even if they are found in scripture.
You see here above. This is what comes about when Christians AD adopted a Jewish god and Jewish beliefs BC. They didn't stop to consider all the baggage that comes with hijacking another belief system. So now they have to play down and attempt to excuse every vile and wicked action of the god that they adopted.
They believe they achieve this simply by attempting to rewrite scripture. Putting words into the mouths of the authors and or characters, ignoring the existence of vile passages and verses or simply by lying. And a example of this is perfectly demonstrated by EtrnlVw above where he shows a classic case of wanting the reader to ignore what is actually written in the scriptures dictated - by all accounts - by non other than god himself.
Try handling some questions concerning his own statement:
EtrnlVw wrote: belief and trust in God should never hinge on any distorted or corrupted ideas even if they are found in scripture.
So are you saying then that although these vile and barbaric actions are the actions your "god", that you and we, should just ignore them as if they didn't happen? What is the lesson here? What was the point of killing all those babies born and unborn? What had they done so bad as to be butchered and killed in such vile and barbaric manner? LOOK>>And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children. (Hosea 9:11-16)
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Anyway. Are we to "love" our brothers and sisters or are we to "hate" our brothers and sisters?
Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
1 John 4:20
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.
I really do wish these scribes would make up their minds. Are we to "love" our brothers and sisters or are we to "hate" our brothers and sisters?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
your assuming god again.yes, we must do so to have this conversation otherwise it would just be another argument about the existence of God.
I meant the assumption that A god created everything. Discussing a god as a creator and a god as just another type of being to me are two different things.
I happen to believe that these beings, so called "gods" existed here once and now they are gone. I don't believe they or one of them created the universe but I do believe they had a big hand in our evolution and development. I believe they were beings with superior intelligence and knowledge compared to ancient human beings. And what they did and how they appeared must have been ' miraculous' to early ancient man. I don't have any evidence for my beliefs I only have what some would call ` logical fallacies'. But I believe the evidence for my beliefs is slowly being discovered and revealed, by modern science and new clinical archaeology and, believe it or not - the bible
There is without doubt a lot of facts to be gleaned from the biblical scriptures - minus the miracles. I have said many times on this forum I believe much of what is going on in the bible, it is history. I am not religious in the slightest.
so we are stuck in a loop?
Yes by all accounts , the big astrological clock keeps turning. There are many references to the zodiac and the "signs" throughout the bible.
I have shown you above that Jesus tells his followers; " Matthew 28:20 , And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
He is talking about the age of the fish, Pieces. This is why I believe, that there are references to fish, fishermen in scripture, he also states things such "I am the alpha and the omega" and "the beginning and the end".
It is relatively easy for anyone to understand the meaning here once one realises that he is talking about what goes on in the "heavens" above our heads and the movement of the "heavenly" bodies and I don't mean angels.
I think now I may have hijacked your thread unintentionally. I apologise.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
If it's all done, then what?
I asked similar about heaven/paradise. I asked when if I go to heaven then what.https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/1495/paradise-then-what
Once you assemble a puzzle there's really not much else to do with it.
That would depend on if you have all the pieces in front of you. It depends if there are more pieces to be added.
has everything been created
That word again; created, your assuming god again.
or is there something more? If it's all done, then what?
This may interest you, TheDredPriateRoberts. It may even answer your question/s
What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.
Going by that it looks like it all starts all over again.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
so you wish to hi-jack my thread then?
No. I have simply asked for evidence that supports what someone has claimed on your thread.
#8 fit as a response which is fine,.............. it would seem God was more interactive then, then suddenly not, so what does God occupy himself with now and how?
Now that is a terrific question!!!
We have new gods now, TheDredPriateRoberts. They are called Corporations. They have all the money, the power and the glory. They dictate to governments who are the new priests. The media is their bible that tells us what it is they need us to know. They tell the governments to tell us what we can buy, how much we can spend and where we an spend it. they tell governments how much or how little we can earn. Nothing has changed, its just a little more 21st century. This is what the gods do to occupy themselves for fun today,TheDredPriateRoberts . They are called the gods of the new millenia. ... or new age as Jesus would say.
And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
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I don't care what they support,
Neither do I as long as they can back up their claims
it was meant to be an adult conversation about what they think and what they know that is all.
And that is exactly what you got. But without support for what it is they claim to know. I ask for support of their extraordinary claims. let me tell you, extraordinary claims requires extraordinary supporting evidence. which is never forth coming. it was a good question you posed, but certainly not one to challenge their extraordinary beliefs.
there is/was absolutely no reason to challenge them or divide to the nasty levels some chose to do.
I am hard pressed to see the hate and and divide you mention coming from me at least. I have stated facts. I have given you an example of what god likes to do in his spare time and for fun. It wasn't presenting it with sarcasm, I was showing you a sound solid biblical fact which was just one of many hundreds. It appears you are not understanding too much here. The hate in the bible comes from god. The divide also comes from god. There is nothing nice about god. God divided people into tribes and nations; he had his own special and "chosen" people. He intentional caused one peoples to hate another. There is nothing fluffy and sweet about god
I asked some very simple questions, simple to me in my mind actually. How or why someone interpreted them as an invitation for a heated debate I don't understand.
Its a forum. A religious forum. Religion is a tough subject.
you and EtrnlVw actually invited those responses.you may wish to go back and self reflect, your hostile responses are not warranted.
That is a matter of opinion . I have gone over post nine and I cannot see anything wrong with it or my responses.
if you thought post #10 included you, then maybe you are the problem.
Wasn't it then? I was pretty convinced it was; maybe you'd like to clear that up.
They can never , ever support their claims.did I ask them to?
But I do, and they don't
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
the thread ended up as I thought it would,
Sorry ,TheDredPriateRoberts but if that comment above was intended with my posts in mind I have to say, that you and EtrnlVw actually invited those responses.
EtrnlVw above indicates to you of how serious all of this subject is and he is right " it is no joke" and is no fun ride for the squeamish, I can promise you.
Seriously, what kind of response was you expecting from a theist ? And what kind of response were you hoping for from someone who doesn't agree with how the scriptures and priests have presented god and Jesus over the millennia?
They can never , ever support their claims.
If you are sincere about wanting to know about god then accept it from the scriptures themselves, god was not a nice being by any standards. He was a bully, a tyrant , self serving hypocrite and dictator who ordered the deaths of hundreds of thousands of men women and children - but he loves us. Give me a fkn break!
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@Mopac
Since a lot of your questions pertain to John's authority and such...Who was St. John the forerunner's father?
I did a whole thread on the subject of the parentage of the Baptist over a year ago. So stop wasting mine and your fkn time. ESPECIALLY MINE!!!!
Now you can either start answering questions here or simply leave the thread. It is not a fkn difficult choice.
What had caused John the Baptist, the greatest prophet and "more than a prophet" to doubt Jesus in the first place?
Why would John “need” to be baptised twice.
Who baptised John in the first place
What was the reason behind this particular baptism of Jesus?
And why did Jesus come to Johnfor this anointing?
What authority did John have to perform such a ritual?
Where, as was asked in the scripture, did John get such authority?
What qualified John to perform this ritual?
Why didn’t Jesus baptise John the Baptiser after John had said “I need to be baptized by you”? Matthew3:14
Why did the Baptist say “I NEED to be” Baptised by Jesus?
Why was “the greatest prophet that ever lived” so mistaken and confused as to whom should be baptising whom?
What caused John to believe that Jesus should be baptizing him in the first place?Matthew 3:13
Why John had forbid Jesus to be baptized in the first place?
Why did John ... the baptizer,eventually agree to baptize Jesus after he had “forbade him” to be, - that is to say John the Baptist refused to allow, Jesus to be baptized. So whatever could have caused John to change of mind? Matthew 3:14 King James Version (KJV)
How did John the Baptist recognise Jesus as “the one to come after him”? John’s gospel at first says:
John1 : 29 “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith,Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world”.
But he doesn’t tell us how he knew it to be him?
John’s gospel later adds this: John 1 : 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
And at John 1 : 33 John, for some unfathomable reason tells usthat he didn’t even know Jesus. This; after pointing him out as the Lamb of God just three verses earlier at verse 29!?
And then at 34 The Baptist spouts this: “I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One. How did he know”?
What caused John the Baptist to lose his faith and doubt concerning if or not Jesus was indeed the “Chosen one to come”? John was after all, the “greatest prophet to have ever lived”.
Matthew 11:1-3
“Art thou he that should come,or do we look for another”?
They may as well have started looking for another messiah as this particular “Chosen one” was to go on to fail in his mission whatever one chooses believe that mission was. Besides, there were plenty of Messiahs around in Palestine at the time and all vying for a piece of the action, the choice must have been overwhelming for the illiterate gullible masses.
It also appears that "ALL" believed or at least questioned if or not the baptist himself was the Messiah!!!
Luke 3:15 King JamesVersion (KJV)
15 And as the peoplewere in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he werethe Christ, or not
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@EtrnlVw
Good guess, you could say that God is the Ultimate Observer.
You CAN also say the he is an egotistical, self indulgent psychopathic schizophrenic, too
Since God exists within a singular reality
Lets have some factual based evidence that god exists outside of your own mind, just for fkn once.
there's not much to do other than to create stuff
How fkn childish. So all of creation was done because this god was fkn bored? Let me tell you. I am fkn bored silly that people like you spew and present all of your biblical and religious beliefs as fact and never ever present evidence, ever, at all.
so maybe you could say that God is the ultimate Creator.
and then you could say nature is.
That's pretty much the only thing God CAN do,
Your joking surely? What about all those wars he and his dictates have created since time began?
but creation is no joke God is a genius in that arena.
FFS!!
God can observe through every single channel of awareness,
FFS!
the comparison would be like not only watching an endless array of movies but also being the actor within them.
FFS!
So there ya have it,
yes and not a single shred of evidence to back up a single word that has come spewing out of your wide bible-bashing mouth. FFS!!
God is a movie maker and an actor in It's own movies.
And an egotistical, self indulgent psychopathic warmongering schizophrenic, too
BTW this is the best topic and question I've seen in a long time, good job.
Stop lying. There ere plenty of good questions about your religion, your bible, your god and your beliefs that you persistently avoid. This thread has simply enabled you to talk fluffy about your god. It doesn't challenge your theological beliefs or knowledge in the slightest.
Try these>>>> Post 21
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
What does God do for fun?
Well it appears that his favorite pass-time is war and ordering human dupes to die in his fkn name.
The Old Testament, once the creation story is told, it continues onto war and murder and rape and slavery and slaughter and butchery and incest and it just doesn't stop until the end. And then after some 500-600 historical gap the New Testament pick up the violence and war and conflict.
There is an example of god seemingly enjoying a bit of gamble... with his buddy Satan who had been just lolling around on earth with nothing much to do, bored to tears as was our Lord so they decided to torment poor old job for a bet .
In the story of Job where the god who loves us all not just ("his own people - Israel") watches Job his "most loyal servant" lose his home, his livestock, his house, his servants and his children! yes all dead!!
Job 1
Try reading it,ya know. Just to cheer yourself up.
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@EtrnlVw
how does that show your attention span to be Stevie??
Much better than yours. it is alert, functioning and sharper too.
I have had to point out to you many, many times , that your own attention span is not too strong and you have proven me to be correct on many many occasions, such as here - AGAIN below you have produced for me yet another example of your own child-like attention span;
Since Jesus WAS baptized by Jesus, my answer is still "Why would they expect others to perform something they had not underwent themselves?"It doesn't matter that John was not baptized, he wanted to be baptized, so my answers are the same.
Jesus by all accounts was baptised by John the Baptiser (you even say so yourself). Jesus did not baptise himself now did he? It was John the baptiser - clues in the title.
Yes, EtrnlVw John the baptizer actually baptized people, thousands of them INCLUDING JESUS. PAY ATTENTION!!!!!
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@ethang5
Not a single verse you offered mentioned baptism,
Now that is just outright lies for the sake of fkn lying.
And you have the fkn nerve! to tell people here that I am not here for serious debate. How can one expect a serious and real debate when is all YOU ever ever do or can do , when your back is against the wall and you have YET AGAIN painted yourself into a very tight theological corner - is TELL FKN LIES!!! j
Every single one of those verses mentions baptism and its reasons. Why are you blatantly lying!?? Here try reading them again and then make an appointment with fkn Specsavers, here>>https://www.specsavers.co.uk/?gclsrc=aw.ds&
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.” (Acts 22:16)“Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. “(Acts 2:38)“John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.” (Mark 1:4-5)“And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.” (Luke 3:3)
You are attempting to bury your own fkn mistakes under a pile of argumentative bullshite in the belief that just because the page is turned no one will go back and look and read your shite and complete and utter fk ups.
You haven't even attempted to answer a single question which is the norm for you when totally stumped on a subject you proclaim to revere and hold faith in. You know absolutely fk all about these scriptures. You should be ashamed at yourself for not being able to answer simple questions on your own fkn subject.
It is fkn laughable that you attempt to project yourself as some kind of authority on theological matters when in truth I have shown you to be totally lost for words, answers or even good explanations when I pose you a question.
It seems to me that you have had it easy on this forum where no one has actually challenged you or taxed your ` brain ` on what knowledge you pretend to have on matters of religion.
I have asked you some questions that have simply left you nothing but impotent and redundant.
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@Mopac
Instead of insults get some of these answered. They should be easy for the faithful.
There are many questions (a few listed below) that all Christians should be asking themselves concerning this saga and one of the those questions should be:
what had caused John the Baptist, the greatest prophet and "more than a prophet" to doubt Jesus in the first place?
Why would John “need” to be baptised twice.
Who baptised John in the first place
What was the reason behind this particular baptism of Jesus?
And why did Jesus come to Johnfor this anointing?
What authority did John have to perform such a ritual?
Where, as was asked in the scripture, did John get such authority?
What qualified John to perform this ritual?
Why didn’t Jesus baptise John the Baptiser after John had said “I need to be baptized by you”? Matthew3:14
Why did the Baptist say “I NEED to be” Baptised by Jesus?
Why was “the greatest prophet that ever lived” so mistaken and confused as to whom should be baptising whom?
What caused John to believe that Jesus should be baptizing him in the first place?Matthew 3:13
Why John had forbid Jesus to be baptized in the first place?
Why did John ... the baptizer,eventually agree to baptize Jesus after he had “forbade him” to be, - that is to say John the Baptist refused to allow, Jesus to be baptized. So whatever could have caused John to change of mind? Matthew 3:14 King James Version (KJV)
How did John the Baptist recognise Jesus as “the one to come after him”? John’s gospel at first says:
John1 : 29 “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith,Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world”.
But he doesn’t tell us how he knew it to be him?
John’s gospel later adds this: John 1 : 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
And at John 1 : 33 John, for some unfathomable reason tells usthat he didn’t even know Jesus. This; after pointing him out as the Lamb of God just three verses earlier at verse 29!?
And then at 34 The Baptist spouts this: “I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One. How did he know”?
What caused John the Baptist to lose his faith and doubt concerning if or not Jesus was indeed the “Chosen one to come”? John was after all, the “greatest prophet to have ever lived”.
Matthew 11:1-3
“Art thou he that should come,or do we look for another”?
They may as well have started looking for another messiah as this particular “Chosen one” was to go on to fail in his mission whatever one chooses believe that mission was. Besides, there were plenty of Messiahs around in Palestine at the time and all vying for a piece of the action, the choice must have been overwhelming for the illiterate gullible masses.
It also appears that "ALL" believed or at least questioned if or not the baptist himself was the Messiah!!!
Luke 3:15 King JamesVersion (KJV)
15 And as the peoplewere in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he werethe Christ, or not
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@BrotherDThomas
they should be paying us hard cash for this service!
Common sense and a bit of honesty would be a good start. Instead of pig ignorance and continuous denial. As is being clearly shown to you in post 20 above.
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@Mopac
Sure, but I think it is worth noting that removed from the church, the bible isn't being studied in the proper context.
And there you all have it. See my post 21 above; "we have had - over 2,000 years of what the church and their priests only want us to know".
According to Mopac, we are so fkn dumb in the 21st century that - ` We need the fkn church to interpret and ex[plain this bullshit otherwise we will never understand it for ourselves'.
The fkn patronising audacity of these fkrs astounds me at times.
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@Dynasty
Can scholarship explain the Bible for us?
It shouldn't need explaining at all, should it? God should have made it simple and intelligible and comprehensible to all who are interested. But it's not, is it? But it can be once one has learned to think for themselves, which those who have blind faith are simply incapable of doing.
And any amount of education goes some way to explain some things. The bible needs to be explained only to those far too idle to research for themselves. Instead we have had - over 2,000 years of what the church and their priests only want us to know. They will steer the child, the gullible and slow witted towards all fluffy and easily explainable verses concerning god and his creation and how he loves us. And of Jesus healing lepers and dying for our sins; but they can't explain why Jesus didn't cure leprosy altogether and eradicate this agonising and deadly disease from the face of the earth. Why didn't Jesus, son of God relive ALL of those from suffering this slow, painful and agonising torture, untill death?
They won't be able to tell us why "god" even bothered created anything at all first place. WHY? Because they are full of shit and want you on your fkn knees begging for life and sustenance.
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When John, who was in prison, he'd heard about the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his disciples to ask him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”.Matthew 11:1-3
So there it is. As clear crystal,
John the Baptist, "the greatest prophet that ever lived" and in the light of all his groveling claims about `hearing the voice of god` , witnessing a `spirit from heaven descending like a dove`, of `not being fit to lick Jesus' boots` and instantly recognizing Jesus as `the Lamb of god` and `the one to come`, now denying what it was he himself had witnessed and doubting all the things he had spouting to - himself apparently- after all the years meandering and wondering all ". alone in the wilderness". Really!?
And of all the doubt and denying above, it should leap from the page here for Christians that John the Baptist is not only expressing doubt about Jesus; John, the greatest prophet and "more than a prophet" is expressing unbelief concerning Jesus' identity as the expected messiah that he had spent years in the wilderness promoting and "preparing the way" for.
John is no more a witness here, is he? He is more of a questioning skeptic whose own expectations were not matching the events or the prophecy.
There are many questions (a few listed below) that all Christians should be asking themselves concerning this saga and one of the those questions should be:
what had caused John the Baptist, the greatest prophet and "more than a prophet" to doubt Jesus in the first place.
What had John been doing while in the custody of the Arab puppet King Herod Antipas of Galilee? What's more, what had he been telling Herod while in his custody?
Why would John “need” to be baptised twice.
Who baptised John in the first place
What was the reason behind this particular baptism of Jesus?
And why did Jesus come to Johnfor this anointing?
What authority did John have to perform such a ritual?
Where, as was asked in the scripture, did John get such authority?
What qualified John to perform this ritual?
Why didn’t Jesus baptise John the Baptiser after John had said “I need to be baptized by you”? Matthew3:14
Why did the Baptist say “I NEED to be” Baptised by Jesus?
Why was “the greatest prophet that ever lived” so mistaken and confused as to whom should be baptising whom?
What caused John to believe that Jesus should be baptizing him in the first place?Matthew 3:13
Why John had forbid Jesus to be baptized in the first place?
Why did John ... the baptizer,eventually agree to baptize Jesus after he had “forbade him” to be, - that is to say John the Baptist refused to allow, Jesus to be baptized. So whatever could have caused John to change of mind? Matthew 3:14 King James Version (KJV)
How did John the Baptist recognise Jesus as “the one to come after him”? John’s gospel at first says:
John1 : 29 “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith,Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world”.
But he doesn’t tell us how he knew it to be him?
John’s gospel later adds this: John 1 : 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
And at John 1 : 33 John, for some unfathomable reason tells usthat he didn’t even know Jesus. This; after pointing him out as the Lamb of God just three verses earlier at verse 29!?
And then at 34 The Baptist spouts this: “I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One. How did he know”?
What caused John the Baptist to lose his faith and doubt concerning if or not Jesus was indeed the “Chosen one to come”? John was after all, the “greatest prophet to have ever lived”.
Matthew 11:1-3
“Art thou he that should come,or do we look for another”?
They may as well have started looking for another messiah as this particular “Chosen one” was to go on to fail in his mission whatever one chooses believe that mission was. Besides, there were plenty of Messiahs around in Palestine at the time and all vying for a piece of the action, the choice must have been overwhelming for the illiterate gullible masses.
It also appears that "ALL" believed or at least questioned if or not the baptist himself was the Messiah!!!
Luke 3:15 King JamesVersion (KJV)
15 And as the peoplewere in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he werethe Christ, or not
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@Dynasty
Evolution is a fact.
It is theory. That is, right up until we come to humans. Something happens at this juncture that is not explainable by evolution alone..Even Darwin and Wallace had problems when it came to humans.
My own opinion tells me that we humans don't belong on this planet. That is not to say we have no right to be here. I think that we are the most ill equipped species to ever exist here in our natural state. Every other animal can cope without artificial heat for one thing. Evolution cannot explain for instance, why was is that humans would shed all our heat retaining bodily hair to then have to go kill another hairy creature to keep warm in our natural existence. Why ever did we need the external heat source of fire in the first place? This list is long. We truly are a species apart from all of the rest of the animal kingdom.
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@Vader
What are you being saved from?Hell
Who goes to "hell" and why?
And would those put to death in the verse the Brother quoted have gone to hell?
--> @BrotherDThomas wrote; Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. Because they have cursed their father or mother, their blood will be on their own head." (Leviticus 20:9)
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@EtrnlVw
Do you view the universe as a living and active phenomenon, or a dry mechanical thing?Define "living".Alive, aware, animate..
So you mean "Do you view the universe to be [alive]"?
(A) I have no reason to believe that the universe is breathing which appears to be one of the requirements of being ' alive'. I have seen no evidence that shows the universe to be "aware" either as I am sure that for something to be "aware", has to also be alive. As for "animate", that definition means to "bring to life". Now considering I have no reason to believe that the universe is breathing etc, see (A) above, then I have absolutely no reason to believe that the universe is "animate" as this means to be alive and breathing and aware, also.
I hope that isn't too confusing for you.
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@EtrnlVw
Do you view the universe as a living and active phenomenon, or a dry mechanical thing?
Define "living".
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@ethang5
Just clean out of answers and explanations and totally redundant aren't you.Why in the world would you think I give a flying fig about your questions?
Who said I did think that, princess? I don't care at all what you don't give about my questions.
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why did John the Baptist want Jesus to baptize him?Out of respect and honor?
Then why didn't Jesus return the " honour and respect" and show some respect and honor to John ; his flesh and blood the one he called "the greatest prophet that ever lived" with a baptism? It would have only taken a matter of seconds. What made John think he was deserved of such "respect and honour" in the first place? Why did then - according to you and only you - did john believe Jesus deserved his respect and honour?
And what is it that distinguishes Jesus' baptism from all the other baptisms John had performed and continued to perform?
Jesus obviously didn't think so did he? This "respect and honor" shite is something you have invented and are attempting to do Johns thinking for him. Your excuse is bullshit and you know it. I just love it when you try to convince me with this shite, you open up far more questions than you can ever hope to answer.
My answer is that John WANTED to be baptized out of respect and honor of Jesus,that's why he WANTED to be baptized...that is what you asked....
And did Jesus perform the baptism on John that John wanted ? NO, HE DIDN'T DID HE, the disrespectful fkr!
It doesn't matter that John was not baptized
It obviously mattered to John, that is why he asked Jesus to baptize him in the first place, wasn't it, that is of course, if we are to believe this ambiguous half told story.
how does that show your attention span to be Stevie?? do you even know what you ask others to answer?
It shows my attention span is clear, alert and functioning much much better than yours, sunshine. But I STILL cannot say the same for you. Read what you wrote below very slowly. I have emboldened and underlined for you the relative opening part for you, so you can't miss it.
Since Jesus WAS baptized by Jesus, my answer is still "Why would they expect others to perform something they had not underwent themselves?"It doesn't matter that John was not baptized, he wanted to be baptized, so my answers are the same.
Jesus by all accounts was baptized by John the Baptizer - Jesus did not baptize himself now did he? That what John didn't you know, he baptize people, thousands of them. And there is absolutely no evidence that Jesus didn't baptize anyone, and certainly not himself.
You are among one of the worst people to communicate with
Then why bother? I didn't drag you here sunshine. And "communication" cuts both ways sunshine. You simply do not like these embarrassing questions that I keep highlighting that you cannot answer. I don't accept your explanations , simply because they are not answers, they are just responses and replies and you really need to learn to distinguish between the two.
Must try harder.
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@ethang5
I'm just waiting to see where your disjointed rant ends.
Just clean out of answers and explanations and totally redundant aren't you.
And you missed this.
So why don't you explain what the ritualistic meaning and propose of baptism is to those that give a fk.
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@ethang5
You are saying that MoPac is not a literal sheep
No that is the way you want to and are interpret the word and out of context.
Could not the bible be using different meanings of the words love and hate also?
They are different words. and they do mean TWO DIFFERENT things. FFS try reading this contradictory crap for yourself and keep up.
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@ethang5
Our genius thinks baptism is for remission of sins.
I hope he has his obtuse glasses on.
Put your glasses on sunshine. Try reading what I wrote and not what you want me to have wrote. I always have to embolden and underline everything for you don't I, Ethang5? Just like a teacher has to do to emphasis something to a child that he persistently misses through lack of concentration and focus, or in your case deliberately.
From post one above.
"In Christianity it is said baptism is an initiation of sorts into the Christian faith and family. Some say it also washes away our sins".
Acts seems to think so too;
Acts 22:16 New International Version (NIV)
16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’
The Life Bridge Church happens to agree. https://thelifebridgechurch.com/baptism-wash-away-sins/
Our genius thinks baptism is for remission of sins.
I personally don't see how that by being pushed under-water that animals and such have pissed and shit in can somehow wash away anything at all never mind a persons "sins".
So No Ethang5, this fkn "genius" doesn't think that being half drowned in pissy shitty water "is for remission of sins.".
So why don't you explain what the ritualistic meaning and propose of baptism is to those that give a fk.
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@EtrnlVw
why did John the Baptist want Jesus to baptize him?Out of respect and honor?
But he didn't baptize him did he? So where was the fkn respect and honor you mention shown there? There isn't any such reason and no such mention of "respect and honor". Indeed there is absolutely no mention of Jesus and john ever meeting again and not a single mention of Jesus ever baptizing anyone either.
John is a respected leader of his own sect and in his own right and well before Jesus came one the scene . John was the leader of a massive movement of his own .john's following was large so much so that Herod feared him.
Try reading what I have wrote and not what you want me to write and stop making crap up.
What sins had John the Baptist committed to have his sins washed away? Or what sins had Jesus committed to have his sins washed away?Out of respect and honor towards one another?
One another??? See above sunshine, only one of them was baptized. And giving the same answer to a different question shows your attention span to be nil.
2 When John, who was in prison, heard about the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his disciples 3 to ask him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”. Matthew 11:1-3This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ from the greatest prophet that ever lived.We have to look at this closely. John The baptist prophesies of Jesus coming , he then witnesses a spirit landing on Jesus like “a dove” and also hears the voice of god,but then has serious doubts about Jesus being “the one”?Is this supposed to actually mean something of significance?
Yes, it means that the greatest prophet that ever lived had fkd up ... religiously.
If your answer is that John doubted my reply is then who cares?
I care.You seem to want to ignore that fact that a man, said by Jesus god himself to be the "greatest prophet to have ever existed" could doubt that he had got it so fkn wrong after hearing the voice of god himself and after witnessing the spirit dove descend through the opening skies.
I care because it shows the weakness of the whole fkn story. Jesus didn't shed a single tear on hearing of his blood relatives death, not a one.
There was no weeping as he had done for his best buddy Lazarus. No mention of Jesus mourning no mention of Jesus attending his funeral or burial. No. what Jesus did next was perform another so called " miracle " in an attempt to cause all of John's followers to go over to him, which many did.
And best of all , there is no response from john when Jesus returned the message.
So far you have said nothing to convince me that these two blood relatives where not rivals. There is no respect or honor and no fkn love lost either.
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@ethang5
How can a question about a comment you made be harassment?
Already answered on the correct and appropriate thread. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3524/how-much-more-of-this-nonsense-are-we-supposed-to-take?page=1&post_number=19
Stop intentional cross threading to create an argument. it is totally against the rules.
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@ethang5
*You didn't know*You didn't know
The fact remains the same , unchanged and unaltered. You didn't know the answer to my question. I admitted right from the start that I didn't know. What you still cannot get over is that you didn't fkn know either.
I know the bible inside out the New Testament in particular, and more than you will ever live to know them.
Yes that was something I said to Mopac and I stick by it. I will also add that I know these scriptures better than you too.
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Continued from part 1 here https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3526/john-the-baptist-part-1-confrontation?page=1&post_number=1
Of the many questions we have to ask ourselves is, if we are to take this story at face value and true then why did John the Baptist want Jesus to baptize him?
In Christianity it is said baptism is an initiation of sorts into the Christian faith and family. Some say it also washes away our sins. So then this raises two more problems and two more questions. (1) This was no Christian ceremony as both Jesus and John were Jews. So what was the reason for baptism of any one of these Jews. (2) What sins had John the Baptist committed to have his sins washed away? Or what sins had Jesus committed to have his sins washed away?
John the Baptist on the one hand tells us he didn’t know Jesus,but if this indeed be the case, then how did he recognize Jesus as “the one to come”.
No one has disputed that john the Baptist had his own disciples before Jesus came on the scene which is just as well as the evidence is overwhelming. And John continued to have disciples after his arrest, which raises one of the biggest questions of all concerning this whole bullshit story. John eventually baptized Jesus, he then, so the gospel tells us that those present seen “a spirit like a dove from heaven”, not only does he tell us what he seen, he also tells what he heard and somehow this confirmed everything for him.
So then, John is totally convinced that he got the right man but then this happens.
John gets himself arrested by all accounts and so begins to wonder and have serious doubt if he had actually baptized and anointed the right person??!!!! YOU JUST COULDN’T MAKE IT UP!!!
YES!!! The greatest prophet who had “ever lived” was now, even after seeing the spirit descend like a dove, and after hearing the voice of GOD HIMSELF!!!! “saying,this is my son and I love him” he sends some of his disciples to Jesus to ask:
2 When John, who was in prison, heard about the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his disciples 3 to ask him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”. Matthew 11:1-3
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ from the greatest prophet that ever lived.
We have to look at this closely. John The baptist prophesies of Jesus coming , he then witnesses a spirit landing on Jesus like “a dove” and also hears the voice of god,but then has serious doubts about Jesus being “the one”?
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@ethang5
Your own figures, like your own biblical preferences, do not add up sunshine. Nice try, but you have not provided a single piece of evidence for your crack pot excuse for there being more than one Goliath. You have not explained who killed these other Goliath's. either.
FAIL!!! AGAIN!!!!
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