Total posts: 8,861
-->
@ethang5
You are saying that MoPac is not a literal sheep
No that is the way you want to and are interpret the word and out of context.
Could not the bible be using different meanings of the words love and hate also?
They are different words. and they do mean TWO DIFFERENT things. FFS try reading this contradictory crap for yourself and keep up.
Created:
-->
@EtrnlVw
they can be compatible
No they cannot and they are not.
Two different authors one speaking for himself and one quoting the Christ verbatim.
I have shown you why you were wrong would you like for me to show you again?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@disgusted
Who Killed The "giant" Goliath ?Nobody. The story is a fantasy.
Well it is beginning to look that way. There are three biblical contenders, Elhanan, the "boy David" and Adeodatus.
But Ethang5 in trying to explain away this MASSIVE contradiction and is now trying to convince us that there were FOUR giants all named Goliath. His math looks a bit off to me and this is not to mention that someone must have killed two of these giants named Goliath OR one of newly invented giants was not killed.
Who cares now anyway? No one has been able to explain the contradiction in the same bible and nowhere does the scripture talk of three other giants that all happen to be named Goliath that were killed by anyone else..
--> @ethang5 at post #9 above wrote;
Here is what the NASB says…1st Samuel 17:50 – Thus David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in David’s hand.
And from the same bible quoted above:
2 Samuel 21:19 New American Standard Bible (NASB)19 There was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.
It is a clear contradiction. End of!
Created:
Posted in:
--> @ethang5 at post #9 above wrote;
Here is what the NASB says…1st Samuel 17:50 – Thus David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in David’s hand.
And from the same bible quoted above:
2 Samuel 21:19 New American Standard Bible (NASB)19 There was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.
It is a clear contradiction. End of!
Created:
-->
@EtrnlVw
Lol I was hoping you'd be back to keep Stevie on his toes.
Yes you just keep putting in the bullets and he will surely fire them . He's fell for it every other time and there is no reason to believe he won't be gullible enough again. I suppose you would rather me make someone else look silly rather than yourself. This is what happened to him the last time he took the bait and was silly enough to be goaded and egged on by the likes of you.
Date: 12/23/2019Moderator: Joint-moderator decisionethang5 has been banned for 14-days for a continuous pattern of violations of the personal attacks section of the COC, with hate speech serving as an aggravating factor.https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3024/public-moderation-log
At least Mopac speaks for himself although I do question that at times.
He bores me too much to bother with em.
You was not dragged to this thread. You came, you made a absolutely stupid and baseless statement, I showed you to be wrong and now you say you are bored. LOL
Created:
-->
@ethang5
How can a question about a comment you made be harassment?
Already answered on the correct and appropriate thread. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3524/how-much-more-of-this-nonsense-are-we-supposed-to-take?page=1&post_number=19
Stop intentional cross threading to create an argument. it is totally against the rules.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
I don't care what you believe about our scriptures.
Then stop getting so upset, if you " DON'T CARE"
What do you really believe?
Make your mind up. You have just told me " I don't care what you believe about our scriptures". You appear to losing it Mopac. You should take a volunteer break like Ehang5 did. He seems to have came back all invigorated and ready to defend the ambiguous half stories in the scriptures. Although, he has not started off to well. he seems to be spending his time defending you and taking offence on your behalf.
Would you not say that are proud to be one of the lord flock, Mopac? Is the lord your shepherd or are your leaders and teachers your shepherd?
Created:
You cannot possibly expect anyone to take you seriously if you also "expect" farm animals to be posting to this forum.Can you clear that up?
No I do think "farm animals" are posting on this forum. Although there are no doubt some pig ignorant posters here .
But are you suggesting that the Christ then didn't ever called himself a "shepherd" and his people his "sheep? Are you suggesting that the Christ only considered his followers and his people to be mere lowly farm animals? That is very silly isn't it.
No, surely not! I believe he was talking about his followers and his people/ Israel being led like sheep and referring to himself as a shepherd.... a good shepherd.
Mopac is one of these sheep in the religious sense of the word as are you and anyone else that purports to follow in the ways of Jesus... the good shepherd.
Now. especially for you;
Why does all this mean? Why does Luke here contradiction John?
Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
1 John 4:20
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.
I really do wish these scribes would make up their minds. Are we to "love" our brothers and sisters or are we to "hate" our brothers and sisters?
Created:
-->
@ethang5
You will disagree about that too shortly.
That is always a possibility. Now pick up the thread or simply leave it. I can do without your unnecessary harassment.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ethang5
There were 4 goliaths actually,
LOL what absolute nonsense! And I find it odd that even not 1 of the five other posters on this thread, including Mopac , couldn't or didn't come up with that absolute crap of an excuse! "4 other Goliaths" my arse!!! lol
You chose a bible and it showed you to be talking absolute bollocks!
Here it is again, from the bible of your own choice. Why don't you just admit that 1st Samuel 17:50 contradicts 1st Samuel 17:50
--> @ethang5 at post #9 above wrote;
Here is what the NASB says…1st Samuel 17:50 – Thus David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in David’s hand.
And from the same bible quoted above:
2 Samuel 21:19 New American Standard Bible (NASB)19 There was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.
It is a clear contradiction. End of!
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
--> @StephenYou are the first person I have ever heard in my life insinuate that Jesus murdered John the baptist.
That's because you have lived in the shadow of your domineering elders Mopac. Who have never pointed out to you that Jesus was a rival to his cousin, "the greatest prophet" John the Baptist.
you're a troll .......
More Name calling does not answer the question does it? Or did you miss my question?
Here ya go, take your time.
Why didn't Jesus raise his cousin, the `greatest prophet of all` John the Baptist from the dead as it is believed he did so for Lazarus the "disciple he loved" ?
He doesn't believe a thing he says.
Oh but I do, religiously.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ethang5
There were 4 goliaths actually,
LOL what absolute nonsense! And I find it odd that even not 1 of the five other posters on this thread, including Mopac , couldn't or didn't come up with that absolute crap of an excuse! "4 other Goliaths" my arse!!! lol
You chose a bible and it showed you to be talking absolute bollocks!
Here it is again, from the bible of your own choice. Why don't you just admit that 1st Samuel 17:50 contradicts 1st Samuel 17:50
--> @ethang5 at post #9 above wrote;
Here is what the NASB says…1st Samuel 17:50 – Thus David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in David’s hand.
And from the same bible quoted above:
2 Samuel 21:19 New American Standard Bible (NASB)19 There was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.
It is a clear contradiction. End of!
Created:
-->
@ethang5
Can you clear that up?
Nothing to clear up, its your opinion and you are welcome to it. This is not to mention how many times Jesus calls himself a shepherd and the many times others call him a "shepherd" and his "flock" sheep.
This is my favorite:
So, not surprisingly, you have failed again and are already attempting to create an argument from nothing.
So now either address the blazing contradiction concerning love and hate, or simply leave the thread.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
you're a crank.
More name calling. You are doing this more often by the day now aren't you. Smacks of desperation to me.
Jesus had motive and opportunity to have the Baptist murdered and by all accounts he was killed , wasn't he?
Here's one just for you Mopac. Why didn't Jesus raise his cousin, the `greatest prophet of all` John the Baptist from the dead as it is believed he did so for Lazarus the "disciple he loved" ?
Take your time sunshine.
Created:
-->
@EtrnlVw
Lol I was hoping you'd be back to keep Stevie on his toes. He bores me too much to bother with em.
You forgot to read and address this clanger you well and truly dropped.
EtrnlVw wrote: "If you take all the teachings of Jesus into consideration it's obvious what he is stating in both verses,"
WRONG... AGAIN!!!! These are not the words of the Christ. These are the words of the author. Not Jesus.
1John:1 -20 Read it ALL for yourself.
Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 9 "He sent his one and only Son that we might live through him"? NO! - he would say - ' he sent me'.
Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 10 " but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins". ? NO! - he would say - 'he sent me'.
Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 14 "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world ? NO! - he would say - 'he sent me'.
And would Jesus say 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God"? NO! - he would say - 'If anyone acknowledges that I AM the son of god'.
And would Jesus say>>>1 John:1 - 17 " In this world we are like Jesus"?
And Luke 14:1-26 makes it perfectly clear who is talking!!!
The Cost of Being a Disciple
25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.
It appears I have shown you to be wrong again.... which isn't too hard to do.
Created:
-->
@ethang5
The new mod team is up to snuff. Give it time. As thedead-weights leave, higher quality posters will come in.
Indeed. And let us all hope they continue to be vigilant in acknowledging harassment, doctoring of posts, hate speech and unnecessary personal attacks , and argument just for the hell of it. Eh Ethang,what do you say.
Created:
Posted in:
There were 4 goliaths actually,
LOL what absolute nonsense! And I find it odd that even not 1 of the five other posters on this thread, including Mopac , couldn't or didn't come up with that absolute crap of an excuse! "4 other Goliaths" my arse!!! lol
You chose a bible and it showed you to be talking absolute bollocks!
Here it is again, from the bible of your own choice. Why don't you just admit that 1st Samuel 17:50 contradicts 1st Samuel 17:50
--> @ethang5 at post #9 above wrote;
Here is what the NASB says…1st Samuel 17:50 – Thus David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in David’s hand.
And from the same bible quoted above:
2 Samuel 21:19 New American Standard Bible (NASB)19 There was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.
It is a clear contradiction. End of!
Created:
-->
@ethang5
Post 16 above ;
The new mod team is up to snuff. Give it time. As the dead-weights leave, higher quality posters will come in.We just need to get past our bad reputation, and posters like you and PGA2.0 help greatly.-> @EtrnlVw wrote ...thank God you're here to deal with the trolls.Just doing my job Sir. ; )
I can agree with you about the mods being well "up to snuff", Ethnag5, but not much else.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
You are both here to be clowns. To call you two clowns is a great deal more respect than either of you give to this subject matter or those who debate you.
More name calling. And you can mock away until your heart is content, but please just for once, support your opinions and you mocking with reason and factual explanation.
this subject matter
The subject matter is there to be scrutinized, probed and questioned and I say John the Baptist and his Johnanites were rivals to Jesus and his breakaway sect. John continued to have his own disciples after Jesus' baptism, after his arrest and many remained faithful to his memory and his teachings after his murder.
But you wouldn't know this because it has never been pointed out to you or for you. You are simply far too incapable to think for yourself as are all sheep.
You are obviously some troll's caricature of a TOTAL ASSHOLE.
Very Christian that and in CAPITOLS too". I must be hitting nerve Mopac to have you raise your saintly voice in anger instead of addressing the topic in hand in a calm, collected fashion.
Definitely not a Christian by any true sense of what that means.
Correct. But that is irrelevant to the topic .
I bet you just cannot wait for John the Baptist part two and three can you.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@BrotherDThomas
Expect the likes of Tradesecret and ethang5 to bring forth more of their wishful thinking and smoke screens in the name of Satan regarding your topic at hand!
Hello Brother D. T. Nice to hear from you.
As for the expectation you quite rightly have every reason to predict, I welcome them both.
As to this particular subject concerning this obvious rivalry between Jesus and the Baptist I actually expect them both to either put up false claims, put words into the mouths of the gospel writers and or characters, rewrite biblical verses, tell me I am reading it all wrong and that I do not understand the scriptures, to defend against what I have to say. Or simply steer clear of the subject altogether. The latter is more likely.
What I don't expect to see is clear and factual proof as to why my opinion about both Jesus and his rivalry with the Baptist is completely wrong. I believe the evidence is there in the scripture to prove me right.
I also have reason to believe that there is good scriptural and extra biblical evidence that Jesus may have had a hand in the Baptists demise. I mean, if what I have say is right, then surely, "thou shalt have no other god but me" would clearly come into play. Would God/Jesus put up with someone attempting to usurp him as supreme over all his creation?
Created:
Posted in:
We are introduced to the Baptist the so called forerunner to Jesus and now as a fully grown man by the gospeller Matthew like so:
Matthew 3: (NIV).
3 In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+3%3A1-6&version=NIV
The bible doesn’t say if indeed the Baptist was a priest or not, but the reader should not be surprised that in John’s gospel at . John 1:28.NIV we can read
1:28 “This all happened at Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing” https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1%3A28&version=NIV
And one shouldn't be surprised at all at this `coincidence` because this just happened to be the very place where Jesus was anointed, met a leper, ate supper, lived off women "of their substance" and of course brought a " dead " man back to life.
So at 1:28 it is here then at Bethany that John routinely baptized at or near his place of residence and here it was that Jesus came to be baptized in the nearby river Jordan. John is depicted as a lone voice crying in the wilderness, but this couldn't be further from the truth as we read clearly from the scriptures themselves;
John 1:35 The next day John was there again with two of his disciples. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1%3A35+&version=NIV
And
John 3:25 And again at we read; “Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying”.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3%3A25+&version=NIV
So John , quite apart from being a hermit "coming out of the wideness" as the gospels will have us all believe, John was, it appears, to be the leader of his own band of disciples.
John, sometime later tells us
John 1:33 “I did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘On whomever you see the Spirit come down and remain, he is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’” https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1%3A33&version=NIV
This has to be a complete lie. The mother of Jesus was said to be cousin to Elizabeth the mother of the Baptist:
There was Mary the mother of Jesus, daughter of Heli (Luke 3:23), cousin of Elizabeth the mother of John the Baptizer (Luke 1:36).
And John the Baptist recognised Jesus when it is said that John "leaped in the womb" when Jesus' Mother Mary went to visit Elizabeth her cousin . Luke 1:40...... but he did not know him? .
Jesus then also appears seemingly out of nowhere also a fully grown man when we read this:
Matthew 3:13-17 (KJV)
The Baptism of Jesus
13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
This is supposed to convince the reader that John, a leader in his own right was being subservient to Jesus, the younger of the two.
But I urge the reader to read it carefully. This gospel states very clearly that Jesus went to the river for one reason only, "to be baptized by John."
John's clear response was to forbid Jesus from being baptized.
This is nothing short of a confrontation concerning whom should be anointing whom. In plain English Jesus is demanding that John anoint him, where as John is telling Jesus it is the other way around and that it is Jesus who should be anointing him. He finished this by practically saying ' and you have the nerve and audacity to come to me'! They were rivals from the start and from before Jesus was even born if we are expected to believe the gymnastic in the womb story.Luke 1:40
Anyway, for reasons unexplained, John it appears to cave in to Jesus' demand.
15 "And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him".<<<< caved in.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
We have to remember that John was supposed to have been the forerunner to the Christ according to Christians , bringing the good news and foretelling the coming of the Messiah. But John didn't even recognize Jesus when he did appear even though he has told any that would listen, that:
27 He is the one who comes after me, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.”
Created:
-->
@EtrnlVw
it's obvious...... is obviously
You say that fat too often, without explaining anything at all.
That's my take on it of course,
And here is mine:
EtrnlVw wrote: "If you take all the teachings of Jesus into consideration it's obvious what he is stating in both verses,"
1John:1 -20
These are not the words of the Christ.
1John:1 -20 are clearly the words of the author he is not quoting the Christ. Read it ALL for yourself.
Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 9 "He sent his one and only Son that we might live through him"? NO! - he would say - ' he sent me'.
Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 10 " but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins". ? NO! - he would say - 'he sent me'.
Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 14 "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world ? NO! - he would say - 'he sent me'.
And would Jesus say 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God"? NO! - he would say - 'If anyone acknowledges that I AM the son of god'.
And would Jesus say>>>1 John:1 - 17 " In this world we are like Jesus"?
And Luke 14:1-26 makes it perfectly clear who is talking!!!
The Cost of Being a Disciple
25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.
Created:
-->
@Mopac
I for the most part would say the same thing EtrnlVw did.
Of course you would. And I wouldn't expect anything else from a sheep.
EtrnlVw wrote: "If you take all the teachings of Jesus into consideration it's obvious what he is stating in both verses,"
1John:1 -20
These are not the words of the Christ.
1John:1 -20 are clearly the words of the author he is not quoting the Christ. Read it ALL for yourself.
Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 9 "He sent his one and only Son that we might live through him"? NO! - he would say - ' he sent me'.
Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 10 " but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins". ? NO! - he would say - 'he sent me'.
Would Jesus say 1 John:1: 14 "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world ? NO! - he would say - 'he sent me'.
And would Jesus say 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God"? NO! - he would say - 'If anyone acknowledges that I AM the son of god'.
And would Jesus say>>>1 John:1 - 17 " In this world we are like Jesus". NO! - he would say - "In this world YOU are like ME!!!!!!
And Luke 14:1-26 makes it perfectly clear who is talking!!!
The Cost of Being a Disciple
25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.
You people are absolutely full of it. You make shite up on the hoof and pray no one will actuality research and check your answers and responses.
It is a clear biblical contradiction that you are not explaining, but attempting to explain away!!! They are verses that are a complete embarrassment to you.
What matters is what the church teaches,
That is my whole problem with these scriptures and how they are taught by the church and its fawning, sycophantic minions. The spin. and unsubstantiated stories and lies you invent to explain embarrassing statements and verses away such as those I have highlighted above is absolutely eye watering.......... all the time.
Created:
They just keep outdoing one another, don't they.
Why does all this mean? Why does Luke here contradiction John?
Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
1 John 4:20
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.
I really do wish these scribes would make up their minds. Are we to "love" our brothers and sisters or are we to "hate" our brothers and sisters?
Created:
-->
@Mopac
4 pages of denial. Lol.
You forgot to answer the fkn question. You have denied throughout this thread that Jesus and these disciples were going to Bethany when it his and their destination all along. You have tried to get around the question by telling us all that the story is about concern for Jesus life . When all the time the story has everything to do with Lazarus, a supposed "dead" man being brought back to life and nothing at all to do with Jesus' safety. You have done this simply to avoid the question I posed in the OP.
So this now has come full circle hasn't it. Now just answer the question and forget the name calling. Is all that remains for you to explain to us is;
why in the whole world would Thomas suggest this:
John 11:16 Let us also go, that we may die with him. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+11%3A1-+16&version=KJV
You're an idiot. I'm not feeding you anymore.
That is name calling
Try answering the question.
Created:
-->
@Mopac
So now you don't even know what your own topic is about.
FROM POST ONE TITLED:
This elusive verse has baffled me for a long time. Why can I not find it ?
John 7:38 King James Version has Jesus saying:
38 "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."
" as the scripture has said"
Where do the scripture actually say " out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."?
THAT ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ IS WHAT THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD IS ABOUT.
AND You nor anyone else has been able to answer this genuine question. instead I have had to put up with unnecessary babel and bullshit from both you and others. Why can you not simply say if or not you know which scripture is from or simply say that you do not know.
It took Ethang - Popoff - 5 TWENTY posts!!!!!! of garbage of utter bilge and bullshit before he could admit to not knowing the answer to the question but then foolishly appended that to add :
"it was in a scripture now lost to history". Has if he would know!
When you call me names
What names have I called you?
and make pretense of having any understanding about these things
I detect that your are calling me a liar in a veiled tone. I am not pretending. I know the bible inside out the New Testament in particular, and more than you will ever live to know them. That is not calling you names.
when it is plain even to skeptics that you are incapable of admitting you are wrong,
I am more that capable of admitting my mistakes. Which is something your religion doesn't afford you. You have a script and have to stick to it through thick and this even when clearly proven to be wrong.
LISTEN!
You show me with FACTUAL evidence where I am wrong and I will gladly throw my hands up to my mistakes and of being wrong. I have asked you to do this many times now, but you keep failing to produce.
Stop calling me a liar. Stop telling me I am wrong and Stop telling me I do not know these scriptures. If you want to keep up and insist with those accusations START by producing some clear, factual EVIDENCE!!!
you are immature and haughty.
That ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^sound like name calling to me.
Created:
-->
@Mopac
why are "they" all going to Bethany to see Lazarus.?They are going there so that Jesus can raise Lazarus from the dead.
So after almost four pages of denial, you now accept that this story is about going to BETHANY and not into Judea/Jerusalem as you have been insisting. Thomas and others, at the BEHEST/orders of Jesus are also going along with Jesus to BETHANY to the raising of a "DEAD" man named LAZARUS back to life again. the only "DEAD" person in the whole story is Lazarus. And that the whole story is not about dying along with with Jesus in Jerusalem at all but about bringing back a "dead" man to life.
So this now has come full circle hasn't it. is all that remains for you to explain to us is why in the whole world would Thomas suggest this:
John 11:16 Let us also go, that we may die with him. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+11%3A1-+16&version=KJV
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
Your argument doesn't address what I said.
My argument and the point of this whole thread - my thread - categorically challenges who the bible/s states was the giant killer of Goliath. . There are THREE candidates. You tell us it was the shepherd boy David. I am simply telling you that there are two other contenders that contradict YOU and the bibles that state otherwise.
You are attempting to tell us that even in the face of all the evidence that contradicts you that it was the boy David that killed Goliath.
So simply tell me, if or not, that ALL those bibles I have presented as evidence to the contrary are wrong, and explain why you believe them to be wrong and your version right?
Now that is not too complicated for you is it?
Created:
-->
@Athias
It is indeed. And after your comment that "So as of yet, it has not been demonstrated that anyone on the planet has a mental "illness." I am asking you a question concerning Jesus the Christ's mental state. Was Jesus mad? His family seemed to believe he was?And I'm declining a response to your questions.
Well that will do. I can only take the words of those who knew him better than you then. can't I.
Because I have no inclination to argue about Bible quotes with you especially on a subject where they are irrelevant.
It is very relevant. You just don't like the question. In fact you don't like question that puts your back against the wall do you.
I won't engage you in a discussion over quotes, and that's the last time I'm going to inform you.
OK. Maybe someone else can ask you. you may want to"engage" them.
Was Jesus mad? His family seemed to believe he was?Mark 3:21 https://biblehub.com/mark/3-21.htm
Created:
You don't know how scripture has been taught for 2,000 years, because you don't really respect the subject matter.
Itsa fkn moth. ffs!!it is not an "angel" sent from god.
You don't know how scripture has been taught for 2,000 years,
Behave yourself. I know these scriptures have been expunged and edited and taught wrong. There are no miracles or any pacifist leaders. just chaos and turmoil and race for power. Grow up an get over it. Dead is dead and it is final.
Created:
-->
@Mopac
Now you tell me -
why are "they" all going to Bethany to see Lazarus.?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
So let me get this straight...Your argument is to pick translations of the same source text?
Are you just playing dumb?
My argument is the contradiction of who was the giant slayer. the bible contradicts itself. It matters not which bible, it still contradicts itself on the matter. You have said above that>>>
Every other reference to this event says it is David who killed Goliath. .........
and I have given you 16 fkn examples that says you are wrong.
Created:
Proverbs 4:23"Keep your heart with all vigilance,for from it flow the springs of life."There it is.That is the scripture he is referencing.
But it is NOT as you say at post 88 above, the topic of this fkn thread , IS IT???? FFS!!!
Is it any wonder you know not these scriptures?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
It is a matter of you accepting an explanation you are given. Every other reference to this event says it is David who killed Goliath. .........It is a copyist error.
But that simply is not true is it!!? LOOK!!!!!>>>>>
Once again there was a battle with the Philistines at Gob,and Elhanan son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath of Gath. The shaft of his spear was like a weaver's beam.
There was still another battle with the Philistines at Gob. Asoldier named Elhanan killed Goliath from Gath, whose spear shaft was like a weaver's beam. Elhanan's father was Jari from Bethlehem.
There was another battle with the Philistines at Gob, and Elhanan son of Jair from Bethlehem killed Goliath from Gath,whose spear had a shaft as thick as the bar on a weaver's loom.
Once again there was a battle with the Philistines at Gob,and Elhanan son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killedGoliath the Gittite. The shaft of his spear was like a weaver's beam.
In yet another battle at Gob, Jaare-oregim theBethlehemite'sson Elhanan killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear resembled that of a weaver's beam.
When more fighting broke out with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan, son of Jaare Oregim from Bethlehem, killed Goliath of Gath. (The shaft ofGoliath's spear was like a beam used by weavers.)
And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob; and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Beth-lehemite slew Goliath theGittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
And there was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.
And there was another war in Gob with the Philistines where Elhanan, the son of Jaareoregim of Bethlehem, slew Goliath,the Gittite,the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob; and Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim the Beth-lehemite slew Goliath the Gittite,the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
And there was a battle in Rom with thePhilistines; and Eleanan son of Ariorgim the Bethleemite slew Goliath theGittite; and the staff of his spear was as a weaver's beam.
And there was a third battle in Gob against the Philistines,in which Adeodatus the son of the Forrest an embroiderer of Bethlehem slewGoliath the Gethite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
And there was again a battle at Gob with thePhilistines; and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, a Bethlehemite, smoteGoliaththe Gittite; now the shaft of his spear was like a weaver's beam.
And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob; and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Beth-lehemite slew Goliath the Gittite,the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
There was again war with the Philistines at Gob;and Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite's brother, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
Do you see that Popoff.
And you tell me I am confused. I should think anyone but complete and utter cretinous moron would be confused , especially if he hadn't even bothered to actually compare verse and bibles.
And what about the person? Adeodatus!
2 Samuel 21:19 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
19 And there was a third battle in Gob against the Philistines, in which Adeodatus the son of the Forrest an embroiderer of Bethlehem slew Goliath the Gethite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
EXPLAIN!!!!!!!
Ethang- popoff - 5 seems to have disappeared as he usually does when he has painted himself tightly into a corner.
Created:
It's the scripture Jesus referenced from the old testament. It is from proverbs.You know, the topic of this thread.
No my friend. The topic of this particular thread - my thread - as post 1 clearly states is a question >>>>> Does "the scripture" actually say this at all,.... anywhere?
John 7:38 King James Version has Jesus saying:38 "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."
and it is from the NEW Testament.
Created:
-->
@Alec
Trump was good on pulling out of Kurdistan, but not out of Iraq and Iran.
I don't believe "Trump" i.e America, is in Iran Alec. Let me just have a quick check on that, Alec. No. America is not in Iran.
So that, at least, is a country he doesn't have to pull out of.
You have to remember Trump didn't put the USA there in the first place. He inherited this fkn mess and now is obligated to deal with it. And good luck to him and god bless him.
Created:
-->
@Athias
Well, you have stated at post 30:it has not been demonstrated that anyone on the planet has a mental "illnessIf you're going to quote me, quote me verbatim:
Like this you mean?
Added: 01.07.20 08:47AM --> @Athias at post 28 wrote this: So as of yet, it has not been demonstrated that anyone on the planet has a mental "illness." https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3481/should-churches-give-free-psychological-evaluations?page=4
Never made that statement. Read my response again.
I am more that sure that it was you, it has your name and the time that you added it LOOK>>>> Added: 01.01.20 06:25PM in a response to Singularity. -- It is simple enough for you to go back and look at your own comment. >>>>
Added: 01.01.20 06:25PM --> @Athias at post 28 Would you like to provide premises for why you think there are zero people on the planet with mental illnessBecause "abnormality" is not the same as illness. Illness is a pathological condition which produces symptoms. There has yet to be a mental "illness" that either fits the aforestated description or produces a biochemical basis. This is the reason the APA rarely includes--if at all--the term "illness" when publishing the DSM (currently DSM-5.) The APA has instead opted to use the term "disorder," which is not the same as illness. The inclusion of "illness" in psychiatric lexicon is merely the residul of Jean-Martin Charcot's failed attempt to prove that hysteria had a neuropathological basis."So as of yet, it has not been demonstrated that anyone on the planet has a mental "illness."
The topic of this thread is "Should churches give free psychological evaluations?"
It is indeed. And after your comment that "So as of yet, it has not been demonstrated that anyone on the planet has a mental "illness." I am asking you a question concerning Jesus the Christ's mental state. Was Jesus mad? His family seemed to believe he was?
Once again, I do not "avoid" questions which I have no obligation to answer.
That is true, you are not obliged.. But you did attempt a response of sorts thereby you acknowledged the question, but then avoided actually answering it. see post 54 Added: 01.06.20 05:47PM
And I'm not going to engage you in a discussion over Bible quotes
Why ever not!!!?? This is a religious sub forum. It is to do with matters of religion and the Christ is a religious icon who has a lot to say and so do his followers on his behalf.
you have demonstrated the incapacity and/or unwillingness to support your claims
Opinion. But you have only attempted to support your claims with superstitions and miracles which, in the 21st century, do not count for anything... at all. Was Jesus mad? His own family, that is, those closest to him and knew him better than anyone else on this planet, seemed to believe he was.
I will not indulge intellectual regress by engaging you in redundancy. So enjoy your day, Stephen.
So while you are willing to lecture others on the matter of mental illness, you are not willing to comment on what the scriptures themselves have to say regarding the mental state of Jesus the Christ and Savior. ? Well I can only hope that some else here has the commonsense to ask you the same question as I.
Created:
Posted in:
Anyone persistently calling someone a liar and insisting someone is a liar should provide evidence that supports the accusation or withdraw it. Or moderation action taken against the accuser.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
We learn from these writings,
We certainly do , Mopac. I have learned from them that they are full of ambiguous statements and half told stories. Not to mention the contradictions every other page.
A good example of this comes from ethang - popoff - 5 above where he uses a bible of his own choice that clearly shows a clear and blatant contradiction.
Here,
--> @ethang5 at post #9 above wrote;
Here is what the NASB says…1st Samuel 17:50 – Thus David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in David’s hand.
And from the same bible quoted above:
2 Samuel 21:19 New American Standard Bible (NASB)19 There was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.
So above there are two different giant slayers from the same bible of his own choice.
Terrible it must be to have to face these biblical contradictory facts, I know, but biblical contradictory facts they are.
It is still unclear to me why he hasn't attempt to explain this blatant biblical contradiction... away.
Created:
-->
@Athias
Was Jesus "mad"? Anyone knows that to call someone "mad" is simply a cheap form of abuse. But what is it when the bible uses the word? What's more, what is it when Jesus' own family say of him having "lost his mind" - thought he was "crazy" - said "he's gone mad" - and to be "out of his mind" - and " he has become mad" ? Mark 3:21What does any of this have to do with my response?
Well, you have stated at post 30:
it has not been demonstrated that anyone on the planet has a mental "illness.
My question has everything to do with your own statement that - "no one on the planet has a mental illness"- and the topic of this thread. So it would be nice if you could answer the question instead of avoiding it by posing your own question.
here it is again>>
Was Jesus "mad"? Anyone knows that to call someone "mad" is simply a cheap form of abuse. But what is it when the bible uses the word? What's more, what is it when Jesus' own family say of him having "lost his mind" - thought he was "crazy" - said "he's gone mad" - and to be "out of his mind" - and " he has become mad" ? Mark 3:21
SO, was Jesus mad?
madness
the state of having a serious mental illness.
out of one's mind
- having lost control of one's mental faculties. having lost control of one's mental faculties.
Created:
-->
@Mopac
Why don't you tell us the explanation you invented to justify your current beliefs, and spare us all the rhetoric.
You are avoiding again, Mopac. You know my stance and the purpose of this thread. I haven't hidden it.
So after your instance that these verses were all about Jesus' safety and where they were going, you have now finally admitted that Jesus along with Thomas are all heading for Bethany where Lazarus, is said to be laying in a tomb and "dead".
Now you tell me - why are "they" all going to Bethany to see Lazarus.? There is a clue at verse 11 below.
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples,Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.
16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto hisfellowdisciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+11%3A1-+16&version=KJV
Created:
-->
@Mopac
Proverbs 4:23"Keep your heart with all vigilance,for from it flow the springs of life."
You should take that on board yourself ,Mopac. And start reading for yourself.
Created:
-->
@Vader
What do you expect out of liberals and especially millennial liberals. Logic and reasoning? Phhffftttt
Instead of pig ignorance and continuous denial, common sense and a bit of honesty would be a good start.
Created:
-->
@Mopac
So what? It proves nothing and simply debunks "make no graven images" , does it not. Exodus 20:4 But you Christians adorn all of your places of worship with thousands of these taboo icons and images paid for by the " poor". Marvelous how you bend the rules when it suits you.You, being blinded by your hatred missed the point.
Hatred!!!? What hatred. I don't hate you, or Christians per sey. My problem is with the scriptures and how it has been taught for over 2,000 years.
If your iconoclastic interpretation is correct, how do you explain the seprent Moses lifted up in the wilderness?
I made a thread on this very subject sometime ago. And that above is a above clear contradiction is it not. One minute the lord is banning all graven images and then telling Moses to create a graven image. YOU COULDN'T MAKE IT UP!!!!!
Here have a look, you were among this first to reply, saying at post 3 "I myself have always found this very puzzling. I must admit," https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/475/you-shall-not-make-for-yourself-an-image%C2%A0in-the-form-of-anything
How do you explain the ark of the covenant and the statues of cherubim on it?
Exactly my point as mentioned in the link above. it is not for me to explain these biblical contradictions. I simply point them out and you should explain them. That is to say, NOT explain them away.
How do you explain Solomon's temple being adorned with images?
I don't have to, but you do.
These questions are rhetorical, be ause the true answer is that your iconoclastic interpretation does not stand up to the scrutiny of scripture.
IT'S A FKN MOTH!!!!
And? So what! Moses is depicted with horns, does this make him a devil or a Satan? Although we know he too was only human.Orthodox icons of Moses do not have horns.
But with horns he is depicted all the same. And it does not make him Satan or the devil, does it. And it is housed in a church isn't it?
Created:
-->
@HistoryBuff
You have absolutely no way of knowing that.Of knowing what?
If or not the Iraqis may have been in on it.
That they didn't use to get along? Iraq and Iran have been historical enemies,
That's correct Einstein. They fought a ten years war with each other costing the lives of estimates 2,000,000. And have a guess who was helping the Iraqis with intelligence, saving the lives of hundreds of thousands?
But America is doing a great job pushing them together.
(A) But isn't that what you want; world peace and harmony in the Middle East and everyone getting along swimmingly without Western interference?
America has spent trillions of dollars and countless lives destroying Iraq.
Yes and Obama king of the Untied States tried to bribe Iran with a $$$$$$$150 billion payoff not to build a nuclear bomb to blow us all up. In the Islamic world that is known as non - Muslims paying Jizya to Muslims in order for them not to kill you.
But what america is doing to pushing Iraq further and further into the arms of Iran
See (A) above.
as the US treats the Iraqi government like shit in their own country.
Lets see your evidence for that. Trump, I believe, would rather not be there. The Kurd and the Sunni want America to stay until the commitments are complete-if not longer. I would like to see the shitholes of that part of the world look after themselves , but they never have been able to without effecting other parts of the world, and of course Western monetary aid and assistance, You still haven't told me if we should stop this charity?
I believe Britain at least, should stop all overseas aid. and invest all of our charity in the ever growing number of homelessness and the ever growing number of food banks that we have here, at home.. What about you HistoryBuff? Should Trump demand that it return the $$$ 150 billion given to Iran as protection( not to build a bomb to kill us with) some of which was given over to Iranian General Qasim Soleimani to spend on terrorism around the world ?
That would make the entire Iraq war a 100% failure.
It will if the Americans are expelled. I would like Trump to take this opportunity and use it to his advantage. The non binding expulsion order could be a blessing in disguise. who knows.
Created:
-->
@HistoryBuff
So? The Iraqis may have bene in on it. They are no friends of Iran , I can tell you that for fk all.They weren't.
You have absolutely no way of knowing that.
But america is doing a great job in pushing them closer to Iran.
Which may not be too bad with this terrorist out of the way and the dust has settled. Wishful thinking I know. But one can only hope. But they are both countries with majority shiite if I remembered correctly, yet are the worst of enemies.
A General, a Diplomat, an Ambassador and a fkn peace talking Terrorist. busy little c*** wasn't he.Oh yes, i forgot. To republicans non-white people are only allowed to be 1 thing ever.
Whoever told you that? I bet it was either Maxine Waters or was it Ilhan Omar ?
Created:
complains that Trump carried out this "assassination" So i'm not sure why you put it in quotes. it is just an objective fact.
Yes, ok it was an assassination. I don't think many can dispute that. If you don't understand why people use "quotes " then I can only suggest you take a crash course in English grammar.
"without any congressional authorization...", "...the "impotent" state of America under Trump"I'm not sure if you are trying to disingenuous or not. Basically he said that violence required some sort of response.
No what he actually said _ and I will put it in "quotes" - because it is what HE said and not me, " Trump has rendered America impotent in the Middle East. No one fears us, no one listens to us.America has been reduced to huddling in safe rooms, hoping the bad guys will go away.What a disgrace"<<<<< That is exactly what he said. It is easy enough to research, why don't you fkn try doing just that.
I read that as this Senator Chris Murphy calling Trump a powerless non entity who had rendered America spineless and defenseless in the Middle East for not responding to all the offences Iran and Qassem Soleimani's Al Quds, - the terrorist wing of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard- had been committing against Americans and American interests in Iraq. . it appears that this twat senator Murphy wanted America to be "feared" not "impotent" not cowering and huddled and hiding from these terrorists.
Trump then went and murdered an Iranian national hero.
It is your opinion that it was murder. I believe it was a preemptive attack on an enemy terrorist . I don't care what you believe.
He was a national hero, to the Iranians and the terrorists groups such as Hezbollah. He was a terrorist to me and most of level headed America. Even some on the left.
There is a huge gap between "do something" and "do something that will definitely get Americans killed".
What should they have done? Tell his mummy that her son was a very naughty boy and to send him to bed without supper!?
It's like if I said someone definitely needs to punish a kid because he is doing bad things.
Oh FFS!!! behave yourself. This was no naughty schoolboy.
The right seems to be massively underplaying how bad this decision was.
I don't think so. They understand the seriousness of this action and they have left the ball in the court of the Iranians. It might even give the Americans a chance to leave Iraq with honour instead of leaving Iraq after promises to stay and help them form a government and train personnel. Trump is all for bringing them home and this would present the perfect excuse, especially after the vote of expulsion.
To the Iranians, sulimani was a national hero.
So you keep saying. But I don't care what he was to the Islamic State of Iranians or to the Muslim terrorist groups such as Hezbollah
He is the man who defeated ISIS (in their opinion).
Yes and all on his own, eh. Not an American in sight, eh. I suppose now if the Americans do leave Iraq at the behest of Iran, leaving Iraqis to the mercy of ISIS once more then they will have to defeat ISIS all over again but without the assistance of the USA.. And you will be calling Americans cowards and traitors for not staying to finish their commitments to the Iraqi people.
Killing him will unify the country behind the hard liners and make it that much easier for the regime to stay in power and continue their attacks.
Maybe. We will have to see. But from what I am beginning to learn and understand many Iranians were pleased this terrorist was killed by the USA..
Killing sulimani was a stupid, stupid thing to do.
Opinion, and you are entitled to it.
And the cherry on top of the stupidity is that he was there on a diplomatic mission to meet the Iraqi PM to discuss defusing tensions between Iran and Saudi Arabia.
Was he? so? Wouldn't he have been better off going to Saudi Arabia as a "diplomat" to "defuse tensions"? Iraq has problems of its own that it cannot sort its out on its own without the USA to help and guide them. and let me tell you, the early celebrations after this killing was Iraqis dancing in the street at reports of his death. You see this terrorist had murdered thousands of Iraqis, too.
I used quotations " " because they are words you wrote, and not what I have said. Are you getting the hang of them now.
He was literally meeting with the PM on the afternoon of the day the US murdered him.
So? The Iraqis may have been in on it. They are no friends of Iran , I can tell you that for fk all.
They killed an ambassador on his way to discussing peace.
A General, a Diplomat, an Ambassador and a fkn peace talking Terrorist. busy little c*** wasn't he.
Created:
-->
@Mopac
Well, you should just come out and say what you are thinking.
I will. besides, you know what I think. I told you my beliefs all through this thread. You have tried to counter my belief with excuses and and false explanations.. I am slowly showing you that you and others on this thread that you are wrong.
So lets carry on .
So Ok. after your instance that these verses were all about Jesus' safety and where they were going, you have now finally admitted that Jesus along with Thomas are all heading for Bethany where Lazarus, is said to be laying in a tomb and "dead".
Now you tell me - why are "they" all going to Bethany to see Lazarus.? There is a clue at verse 11 below.
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples,Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.
16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto hisfellowdisciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+11%3A1-+16&version=KJV
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Mopac
The Orthodox Church does not recognize Mohammed as a prophet.
You have had a good run at derailing this thread that is about a fake and Convenient Crucifixion. This thread is not about Muhammad.! Please stop it and address the points I have raised or simply leave the thread.
Created: