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@Mopac
You have a very uncharitable attitude towards the apostles and the church.
They were all rich. Jesus had surrounded himself with RICH influential people with business' and high positions. You can deny this fact as much as you like but your scripture makes it quite clear.
You accuse the apostles because you are unable to fsce your own hypocrisy.
I am getting a bit fed up with you calling me a liar and hypocrite. Its about time you told us all what it is I have lied about and where have I shown hypocrisy. With a nice dollop of evidence to prove your claim. You never know, you might even be correct about me and I will apologies to you profusely and wholeheartedly.
So, when your ready.
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@Mopac
You of all people should know that the word angle simply means messenger and has no supernatural or miraculous connotations what - so - everYou may notice that some icons of St John the forerunner and baptist have him depicted with "angel wings".
So what? It proves nothing and simply debunks "make no graven images" , does it not. Exodus 20:4 But you Christians adorn all of your places of worship with thousands of these taboo icons and images paid for by the " poor". Marvelous how you bend the rules when it suits you.
Yet, John was a human being.
And? So what! Moses is depicted with horns, does this make him a devil or a Satan? Although we know he too was only human.
That said, we certainly believe in bodiless powers,
Yes and so does anyone with the slightest bit of commonsense. Electric, gas, steam and,dynamite for instance are all "bodyless" and all can move mountains. But the ones that you are trying to conflate these powers with do not even exist, only in the mind of the believer.
Did you miss post 6 above.
In this age of wifi, there is no good reason to deny the existence of bodiless powers.
Stop being so silly. The two have nothing in common.
After all, modern science has lifted the veil on some of these forces.
It has and non of them have anything to do with the supernatural. or the hand of god.
IT'S A FKN MOTH!!!!!!! FFS!!!!!!
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I can't profess to know a lot about U.S. politics. But if it wasn't enough with all the hypocrisy during the impeachment there is now a U.S. Senator Chris Murphy CT;
complains that Trump carried out this "assassination"
"without any congressional authorization, of the second most powerful person in Iran, knowingly setting off a potential massive regional war"? Jan 2 2020
I don't know if Trump needed "congressional authorization" but this has to be the quickest 180° ever because only 2 days before this twat had this to say about the "impotent" state of America under Trump
6:36 AM - 31 Dec 2019. @ChrisMurphyCT "The attack on our embassy in Baghdad is horrifying but predictable.Trump has rendered America impotent in the Middle East. No one fears us, no one listens to us.America has been reduced to huddling in safe rooms, hoping the bad guys will go away.What a disgrace".
I have said before, in the eyes of Democrats, Trump will never ever do right. They are a bunch of self serving twats who know not their arse's from their fkn elbows.
God Bless America and God bless The Donald.
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@zedvictor4
I wonder if anyone will ever, ever believe that a monster moth , three quarters the size on a pickup truck, would have ever been captured on camera?
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@zedvictor4
So where is the original untranslated text?
I am not sure that "Assembly of the Lord" has ever been explained. Certainly not by Christians as this was a dictate to the Hebrews of Moses' age.
This may be it? Deuteronomy 23:1
No one who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assembly of the LORD.
“If a man’s testicles are crushed or his penis is cut off, he may not be admitted to the assembly of the LORD.
“No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the LORD.
No man with crushed or severed genitals may enter the assembly of the LORD.
"No one who is emasculated or has his male organ cut off shall enter the assembly of the LORD.
“He who is emasculated by crushing or mutilation shall not enter the assembly of the LORD.
He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
"No man whose testicles have been crushed or whose penis has been cut off may enter the LORD's assembly.
If a man's private parts have been crushed or cut off, he cannot fully belong to the LORD's people.
"No man who has been castrated or whose penis has been cut off may be included among the LORD's people.
No man whose testicles have been crushed or whose penis has been cut off may enter the LORD's assembly.
"No man whose testicles have been crushed or whose penis has been cut off may participate in the assembly of the LORD.
A man with crushed or severed genitals may not enter the assembly of the LORD.
No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off may enter the assembly of the LORD.
A man whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off may never join the assembly of the LORD.
He that is crushed or maimed in his privy parts shall not enter into the assembly of the LORD.
“No one who is emasculated, or has his male organ cut off, shall enter the assembly of the LORD.
He that is wounded in the stones or is castrated shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
He that is a eunuch by crushing or mutilation shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
He that is wounded in the stones, or has his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the assembly of Jehovah.
He that is fractured or mutilated in his private parts shall not enter into the assembly of the Lord.
An eunuch, whose testicles are broken or cut away, or yard cut off, shall not enter into the church of the Lord.
He that is a eunuch, whether he have been crushed or cut, shall not come into the congregation of Jehovah.
He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the assembly of the LORD.
He that is wounded or mutilated in his secrets, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
He who is wounded in the stones, or has his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the assembly of Yahweh.
'One wounded, bruised, or cut in the member doth not enter into the assembly of Jehovah;
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@n8nrgmi
if your dick or balls are too fucked up, you can't enter the assembly of the lord
Did this also apply I wonder to those who had there "dick or balls too fucked up" due wars commanded by the Lord himself?
And it is also odd that again, on the command of the Lord infants have their foreskins ripped from them for no medical reason what-so ever. Maybe the "assembly of the Lord" was getting overcrowded, "no room at the inn" , so to speak?
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@Mopac
Speaking in tongues, as it is often idiomized, refers to the speaking of other languages.
I agree. it is not a biblical miracle or a biblical or religious phenomena, or a curse from god..... for once. It is a simple case that some of Jesus' disciples were able to speak another language including Arabic, Greek and Aramaic. Most if not all of Jesus' "12" were rich traders with businesses ( so much for rich men & eye of a needle crap and give to the poor bs), and would have had to know at least Greek asides Aramaic.
What does appear to be some kind of explainable phenomena is people who wake from comas speaking another language.
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@Swagnarok
If the Iraqis want you to withdraw troops and ambassadorial presence then just do it. It's their loss in the long run. Don't turn the entire world against us. America is not Russia or China.
I agree they should be left now then to the ravages of the Muslim fanatics ISIS, who are supported Islamic State Of Iran with arms and money and who with the help of American drove out of the country just a matter a month ago. I agree, it will be" their loss"
It has to be recognised though that the Sunni and Kurd members of Parliament didn't vote on the expulsion of US troops and this "non binding" resolution was only supported by Shiite parties (no surprises there then). Indeed it has been said that the Sunni and Kurd members of Parliament were "concerned and worried" about the proposed expulsion.
It also has to be seriously understood that 'General' Qassem Soleimani was head of the terrorist wing of the Islamic State of Iran's Revolutionary Guard.
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@Vader
I mean there is no way of knowing for sure what it [ reasons for the killing] was
I have said words to that effect.
We killed a terrorist
I said that also.
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@Vader
War takes various aggressions by different countries to start up.
Not when one is speaking of an Islamic State, it doesn't.. One only has to write a novel or even draw a cartoon and most Islamic nations want to kill all westerners.
Qassem Suleimani was a terrorist and all administrations before knew he was. He was clever and ruthless and behind and involved in many terrorist operations in the Middle East and Africa.
I personally don't know if this was a preemptive strike to save the lives of Americans. I believe going by recent events that Trump has been pretty tolerant and has shown restraint and has not been the warmongering trigger happy racist sex mad tyrant the left are desperate to have him to be.
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The sheer amount of schlock that one finds in evangelical/protestant bookstores in no small way contributed to me becoming orthodox.
Yes , we know the "schlock" that contributed to your becoming orthodox. It is a world best selling book that tells of rotten stinking corpses coming to life after just three spoken words. John 11:43
The same "schlock" that tells of 4,000 people being fed with only 7 loaves and "a few small fish". Matthew 15: 34.
That same "schlock" was repeated but this time to feed more with less! 5,000 with only 5 loaves and 2 fish!! Matthew 14:17. Why the difference?
The same "schlock" that tells of finding money inside the mouth of a fish. One has to wonder that having already four coins in its mouth how did the fish manage take the baited hook too? Matthew 17:26-27
Then there is spitting to make a blind man see John 9. One has to ask, why not just simply cure blindness instead of just curing one blind single man? There must have been others around.
Curing a leper.Mark 1:40-45. Again one has to ask, Why cure only one man of this deadly disease? Why not simply eradicate this deadly plague altogether from the face of the earth!?
Yes Mopac, this is the "schlock" that "contributed to you becoming orthodox" isn't it?
You of all people should know that the word angle simply means messenger and has no supernatural or miraculous connotations what - so - ever. My post lady is a fkn angle she never fails to deliver my messages and always before 12.00 noon.
If this event draws those involved closer to God through repentance, it is a good thing.
Tell lies and deceive is what you mean. Yes any bullishite will do as long as it draws one into the moment. All kinds of promises and tricks can work.
From - Splinters of wood from the "true cross", Rusty nails used to crucify Jesus "found"! - to the bones of John the Baptist being found. And who ever can forget the biggest and most famous "relic" of all time, the blessed burial shroud of the Christ himself held in Turin. Yes this commission by the Italian Medici family has held the imaginations of millions of Christians captive since the day Leonardo created it. Christians (and the curious) from around the world pay a fortune to see it, revere it.
Current admission is €6 for adults and €3 for children 6-12. Kids 5 and under are free.
I find it odd that this holy relic of holy relics is not held anywhere near Rome but over 689 Km = 428 miles away in Turin. Didn't the Medici originate in Florence and Turin.Or was it both? who cares? it still costs €6 for adults and €3 for children 6-12 on the gate.
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@Mopac
I don't get the impression you are open to being corrected.
Of course I am, but only as long as those "corrections" come with factual evidence and not belief presented as fact. Not theory presented as fact. Not unfounded guesses or assumptions or simply what it is you may think. It will take only factual evidence for me to be wrong and stood corrected.
And this seem to be slipping your eyesight quite regular>>
Matthew 27: 46 Eli, Eli,..... My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? !!!!
Jesus said these word of doubt right after promising the two executed each side of his that they would "TRULY" be with him in paradise? Luke 23:43 NIV. .
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@Mopac
They are going to see Lazarus in Bethany.
So when you say, "they" , you mean the "us" mentioned at verse 15 below. Which means Jesus is addressing Thomas at verse 15 below and any others that are with him.
So Ok. You have finally accepted that Jesus along with Thomas are all heading for Bethany where Lazarus, is said to be laying in a tomb and "dead".
Now you tell me - why are "they" all are going to Bethany to see Lazarus.? There is a clue at verse 11 below.
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples,Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.
16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto hisfellowdisciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+11%3A1-+16&version=KJV
I perceive you are alluding at something more mystigogical, which is fair considering John's is the mystagogical gospel.
We are coming to that Mopac.
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Has this camera captured a miracle of spiritual proportions?
Michigan Fire Chief Glen Thorman says "his home security camera captured an angel floating over a truck".
And his pastor who is an "expert" on such things, confirms it. Ya don't saaayyyy.
Pastor Don Piper tells us that he once "died ", went to heaven and came back!!! " . and he has a book to sell.
This is his best quote : "it means we're absent from this body and present with the Lord. I wasn't planning to die that day, but I was ready". It appears then one can change their minds if they don't like heaven.
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Continued from POST 1
Matthew 27: 46 Eli, Eli,..... My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? !!!!
Jesus said these word of doubt right after promising the two executed each side of his that they would "TRUELY" be with him in paradise?Luke 23:43 NIV. It is never explained to us by these gospel writers where "heaven" is or what happened when they get there.
Still;
this wasn't the first time Jesus had lost not only his faith, but he had also lost his nerve in an earlier episode when this dangerous plot was nearing.
It appears he was backing out of something that was prearranged when we read the words;
Luke 22:41-42
41 And He was withdrawn from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and prayed, 42 saying, “Father, if it is Your Will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.”
And here Mathew tells us it wasn't Jesus' wish or idea that he should "sacrifice" himself and he begs his "father" twice to be relieved of this burden.
Matthew tells us of Jesus making his request of the Father twice: "Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, 'My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken away from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will'"(Matthew 26:39) and "He went away a second time and prayed, 'My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done'" Matt. 26:42.
This man was obviously absolutely terrified of what he was about to face we have to ask, did he bargained for this, did he not understand the scripture or the script. Did he not know that all of this mission was leading up to a sacrifice, his own sacrifice?
We can only conclude that he didn’t have a clue that this was how it was all supposed to end.
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@Mopac
We don't have anything more to discuss, you don't have an argument.
No answers is what you mean.
Who is it that Jesus is talking to when he says " let us go unto him." ?
And where about is it that Jesus means they should go to?
11 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, [...............]
14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead, 15 and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”
16 Then Thomas (also known as Didymus said to the rest of the disciples, “Let us also go, that we may die with him.”
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@Mopac
If these things weren't difficult to believe, they wouldn't be called miracles.
These so called "miracles" are very easy to believe and understand, once you take the time to study them. You just haven't taken the time to do so. instead, you have relied totally on explanations from your leaders and accepted them at face value instead of studying what they have said to you. You have been steered towards passages and verses that can be reasonably explained and steered away completely from those for which they simply have no explanation without relying on the supernatural and superstitious.
Jesus spoke in code on many accusations for fear of the Romans. He used code names for people and actions too, such as " thunder" "lightening" and "rock". To understand what is going on in these scriptures you need to understand the Palestine of Jesus' time. It was in utter turmoil. There were many factions vying for positions of power and all under the noses of Roman rule.
There is a deeper meaning behind all of it though,
There is . I have said so many times. These scriptures are not just about so called "spiritual" matters. They are about power and whose time it was to rule legitimately.
because as I said, it communicates something much more profound than what is seen on the surface.
Yes I know. Under the surface you will find treachery, turmoil, treason and chaos. Threats, murder, bribery and rebellion; These are all the things that you won't find on the fluffy "love your neighbor" give to the "poor" surface.
Jesus was no pacifist by any measure. He was building a fkn army to take the throne by force if it came to it. Jesus was more than willing to let the Romans have the ultimate power, he just wanted to his rightful duel position as King of the JEWS (not Christians) and rightful position as High Priest. The Romans didn't give two fks who was on the throne or who was high priest as long as they kept peace and the zealots from Galilee in order. Those illegitimate rulers of the temple and the throne were puppets put there by the grace of Rome.
The church understands this. The church knows the proper use of scripture.
They probably do , but they are keeping the truth away from you I can promise you that sunshine. You are just a foot soldier, gofer, in the army of your movement. jesu had thousands of followers and many more disciples than just the 12 you like to misrepresent and misquote.
So really, if you are trying to do this apart from the church, you aren't respecting the subject matter. You are simply acting as a recruiter for those who would slay us.
No. I am here only to her your answers and explanations to my questions. I have spoken up for Christians many times on the complete right to practice their religion. AND like I have to keep you; it is the scriptures that I have a problem with, not necessary Christians.
you are too prideful to ever admit when you are caught in an obvious falsehood,
Yes you keep calling me a liar in various forms but as of yet you haven't produced a single piece of evidence to support that accusation or have you done so to prove a single one of your own claims, have you.
and always choose to double down. Not only does this make you ignorant, but weak as well.
Opinion And is all you have to do is prove me and my claims wrong, don't you? Just telling me I am wrong is not evidence of me being wrong.
You aren't here for honest debate.
You are the one not answering the questions. And what is it that you believe that I haven't been honest about.
You are here to practice rhetoric and other sleazy debate tactics.
Highlighting chapters and verses that you have no response or answers to, is what you mean. No, it must be terrible to know and realise that you know absolutely nothing about what it is that YOU and your church have actually been spouting all these years. And you still haven't explained to me the definition of and "expert" in biblical matters, is, have you?
You will certainly respond to this post with gaslighting, projecting, more ambush rhetoric, and the tone of an unreasonable frothing lunatic.
Name calling does not win you an argument, Mopac. I have to keep reminding you Christians that ONLY EVIDENCE will win you an argument, and not beliefs presented as fact.
I would love more than anything for you to defy my expectations!
What are they? I am amazed that you would have any expectations at all only those allowed to you by your church elders.
I have said already. I can, have and will admit when I am wrong, but your church and your faith will not afford you the same privilege. You have to stick to the rules of sticking to the story and when cornered - first; denial, then lies to support your claims of miracles and men bringing back to life other dead men.
I am scrutinizing and questioning what it is you believe in, Mopac. I don't care about your faith. I have no interest in it.
If not, I will quickly grow board of you, as I have in the past.
Hahahahhahahhahah My ribs hurt!!!! I don't believe there is a more boring, nauseating person on the forum than you.
And you STILL haven't explained this ,
Matthew 27: 46 Eli, Eli,..... My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? !!!!
Yes, astonishingly here we have the son of god himself, doubting own his father, and his own god. It is as if he didn't have a clue as to what was happening yet he clearly spoke these words of doubt. Why? Hadn't he read all the script? Hadn't he just promised two robbers that they would "TRUELY" be with him in paradise?Luke 23:43 NIV
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@Mopac
The thing is, Jesus didn't just teach in parables with words.
This is not addressing the points I have raised at post (1) of this thread. You are avoiding them. YOUR reluctance alone would arouse curiosity in anyone considering to study the bible.
Since you don't know what it is that is being communicated, you don't see why it does no good to dispute these things.
Opinion. And I don't care what you believe.
And really, the bible is our book.
The bible belongs to anyone who wants to read it. Stop being arrogant and stop putting yourself on a pedestal that you keep falling off with every failure to address questions on your own belief system
It was written by the church, it is the witness of the church,
No and No. Jesus was a Jew. He was king of the Jews and not king of the Christians. And that is one fact you Christians refuse to recognize. Jesus would have been appalled that a whole new and different religion had sprung up in his name.
That being the case, it is ours to interpret, and any understanding that contradicts the church is invalid.
BULLSHIT!!!!
The only thing you do by attacking these things of our faith is encourage people in their lack of effort to understand us and what we teach.
How many fkn times!!!! Asking question concerning what it is that you have faith in is not attacking anything. Or "subverting" anything.
Don't you think Christians are treated poorly enough as it is in Muslim countries?
I know they are. I have said so many times. This has nothing to do with this thread. stay on topic.
Why are you spreading lies that conform to the proclamations of their so called prophet?
Where have I done that. it is not a lie that Muslims believe Jesus was not crucified. Or are you saying different?
If these things weren't difficult to believe, they wouldn't be called miracles.
Stop it. silly man.
There is a deeper meaning behind all of it though,
There is. I have said so many times. There is another story under the surface of the gospel story that you are far too afraid to face.
and you missed this AGAIN!!
Matthew 27: 46 Eli, Eli,..... My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? !!!!
Yes, astonishingly here we have the son of god himself, doubting own his father, and his own god. It is as if he didn't have a clue as to what was happening yet he clearly spoke these words of doubt. Why? Hadn't he read all the script? Hadn't he just promised two robbers that they would "TRUELY" be with him in paradise?Luke 23:43 NIV
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But join the conversation if you actually have something to contribute.
I would have contributed, (or chose not to) had you made clear that you don't actually believe in souls yourself in the first place, instead of posing questions as if you did have some knowledge of their existence but were not sure about "where they go"..
They don't exist except in the imaginations of godists but in those imaginations souls exist and go to heaven or hell at death.
Now that is a bit more clear on your actual stance not to mention your knowledge concerning souls and those that do believe in them.
My question to a godist is totally valid,
It is. I don't believe anyone is disputing that. Although, it is naive considering that you already (1) know that "godist" believe in the existence of the soul and (2) you already know the answer you can expect from "godists" i.e. you have answered your own question haven't you? Here look>>
"They don't exist except in the imaginations of godists but in those imaginations souls exist and go to heaven or hell at death",
or are you expecting something else from the "godists"?
Or didn't you even write that above?
if you don't believe that souls go to either heaven or hell post abortion then you have no need to be here.
(A) Well you didn't actually specify that the question was exclusively for "godist" , to be fair, did you? And you did give the impression that you knew about the existence of the soul but wasn't to sure "where the aborted ones go". And one doesn't have to be a "godist" to believe that one has a soul and believes in the afterlife, or a spirit.
But join the conversation if you actually have something to contribute.
I believe I have done just that at (A) above in bold underlined. I hope you always remember......to take your now advice.
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@Alec
I would hate to be on death row for a crime I didn't commit. How about you?
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@Alec
I would hate to be on death row for a crime I didn't commit. How about you?
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@Mopac
You are ignoring the fact that functionally, Bethany is in Jerusalem.
"ignoraning" !!!???
But it was to Bethany that they were returning to wasn't it? Lazarus was "sick" then "asleep and then "dead" in Bethany wasn't he? the message came from Bethany. Stop ignoring this very clear stone cold BIBLICAL fact.
And you keep avoiding this, WHY????
Who is it that Jesus is talking to when he says " let us go unto him." ?
And where about is it that Jesus means they should go to?
11 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, [...............]
14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead, 15 and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”
16 Then Thomas (also known as Didymus said to the rest of the disciples, “Let us also go, that we may die with him.”
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@disgusted
Where do the Souls of the Aborted go?What is a soul? Where do they come from? Where do they exist? And how do you know about them?Ask a godist
I am asking you. Because this is your thread. Started by you.. Surely if you don't actually know what a soul actually is then your first question should have been, -what is a soul? And " where do the Souls of the Aborted go"?
So, What is a soul? Where do they come from? Where do they exist? And how do you know about them?
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@Singularity
I never diagnosed you, but you have all the symptoms and should seek a psychologist. Best case scenario they say you are perfect like jesus and you can walk [ on water] . Worst case they recognize the early signs of a psychological illness and you can fix it before it starts to take a toll on your quality of life.
I hope you don't mind. but i fixed that for you.
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@Mopac
I wouldn't call you a cynic. I'd sooner call you an uncharitable and opinionated know-it-all dipshit than that.
Who still knows these scriptures inside out and much better that you will ever live to know them.
And again, you have ignored this>>
So as of yet, it has not been demonstrated that anyone on the planet has a mental "illness."
Was Jesus "mad"? Anyone knows that to call someone "mad" is simply a cheap form of abuse. But what is it when the bible uses the word? What's more, what is it when Jesus' own family say of him having "lost his mind" - thought he was "crazy" - said "he's gone mad" - and to be "out of his mind" - and " he has become mad" ? Mark 3:21
madness
the state of having a serious mental illness.
out of one's mind
- having lost control of one's mental faculties. having lost control of one's mental faculties.
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@Mopac
so the only thing you do by trying to undermine us is make yourself into a fool
Asking questions about the scriptures that you hold faith in, is not "undermining" anything.
And you didn't explain this claim either
You are disputing facts that are atteted to in documents that survive since the earliest days of the church.
And which facts are those then? And I assume you mean "attested to"? if that is the case, whom are they "attested" by? When were they attested? What are these documents called?
And you missed this too.
and you are not an expert.
I admitted to that when I asked you to define what is an "expert" in religious matters? You haven't responded. I am of the impression that according to you, one only has to believe and have faith to become an expert. So, lets have that definition, please.
You don't know what we teach or believe,
That is not my point really. What I do know is that you have faith in these extremely unreliable and highly questionable scriptures. So much so that you have to invent stories and tell lies to defend them.
discouraging the ignorant from learning.
I think that is your fear isn't it? You don't like the idea that I am be shining a light on these extremely unreliable, ambiguous scriptures that are filled with extremely questionable half stories, lies and innuendo.
I actually marvel at the fact that you say I AM, "discouraging the ignorant from learning".
Could you explain " the ignorant"? Who are the "Ignorant"? Who are the people you don't even know are "ignorant".
You haven't even attempted explain or challenge a single thing that I have wrote in the opening post of this thread. That is not only ignorant, it could possible cause others to question these unreliable scriptures for themselves . The very thing that you are trying to discourage and avoid, isn't it.
Try this:
Matthew 27: 46 Eli, Eli,..... My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? !!!!
Yes, astonishingly here we have the son of god himself, doubting own his father, and his own god. It is as if he didn't have a clue as to what was happening yet he clearly spoke these words of doubt. Why? Hadn't he read all the script? Hadn't he just promised two robbers that they would "TRUELY" be with him in paradise?Luke 23:43 NIV
I can see clean through you Mopac. And your fake movement .
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@Mopac
You are disputing facts that are atteted to in documents that survive since the earliest days of the church.
Am I? And which facts are those then? And I assume you mean "attested to"? if that is the case, whom are they "attested" by? When were they attested? What are these documents called? Do you see Mopac? just one throw away comment of yours has thrown up 6 more questions, of which some you cannot answer. Its called digging a BIG FKN HOLE.
Your education is trash,
Opinion. I know these scriptures better than you ever live to know.
and you are not an expert.
I admitted to that when I asked you to define what is an "expert" in religious matters? You haven't responded. I am of the impression that according to you, one only has to believe and have faith to become an expert. So, lets have that definition, please.
You are as much an expert as any 12 year old with a youtube education.
Which unfortunately for you is still more of an expert than you will ever live to be.
Just as arrogant too.
You and your creed are the ones who believe they have the monopoly on moral standards and good behavior, YOU DON'T!!!
You should be educated through the church,
I am. I read and study the scriptures and other extra biblical literature and have done so for well over 40 fkn years now.!!!
because it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about the things that pertain to us.
Then stop with the childish opinions of me and start answering some serious questions concerning your own belief system.
Here would be a good a start https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3347/one-of-the-most-enigmatic-verse-in-all-christianity?page=3&post_number=73
They are unenlightened.
Opinion.
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@disgusted
Where do the Souls of the Aborted go?
What is a soul? Where do they come from? Where do they exist? And how do you know about them?
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@zedvictor4
What will people do? .........In fully automated societies.
That is an excellent question. Imagine, for instance when the people of the whole world are fully dependent on computers for say; education and then those in power decide it is time to switch them off? Leaving only the highly educated elite with all the know-how and knowledge and thereby leaving the rest of mankind totally dependent on them for everything. Just like the ignorant masses depended on the ancient priests of old for all their information about everything.
Money is another thing that is already being digitalised to credits on a screen with cashless societies on the horizon. This, I don't doubt, will lead to those who believe they are owed credits (tax man) will simply be paid out by those who are holding your credits (bank) without you having the least say in the matter, while you battle through the courts trying to prove you didn't owe anyone anything in the first place, but tax man still had first bite of your credit cherry.
Imagine different coloured credits for payments for different things.
Red for gas.
Blue for food.
Green for rent.
What if I don't have enough Green credits to pay my rent so they that hold your credits (bank) simply deduct from your food or gas credit allowance to make up for the shortfall? without you having a say in the matter, leaving you starving and cold. but Landlord/Council had first bite of your credit cherry. How are we to earn these credits in the first place if the whole world has become automated? Will we be totally dependent on the new priests called corporations?
This is all very frightening when looked at without your rose tinted spectacles. The worst thing about this is that ideas - such as a cashless society- are always sold to us "for our benefit". Yet they are sold to us with veiled threats and scaremongering while pretending to be putting your fears to rest. Fears you never had until these fkn snakes introduced them to you.
It is religion on a massive scale , a scale so big it cannot be seen by the human eye until it is scrutinized under a microscope in detail. This is where automated societies and cashless societies are leading, " but it is all for our benefit" don'cha know.
It is about time the dozy liberal fkn left woke up properly to where Governments around the world are leading us to instead of arguing about if or not (XY) can also be (XX) "if it chooses" and simply by saying it is.
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@Mopac
Who is it that Jesus is talking to when he says " let us go unto him." ?
And where about is it that Jesus means they should go to?
11 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, [...............]
16 Then Thomas (also known as Didymus said to the rest of the disciples, “Let us also go, that we may die with him.”
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@Mopac
I believe that places me thoroughly in the category of being on topic.
As you know, the thread is not about Muhammad.
NO. The crux of the thread - that being the decisive or most important point at issue- is the about the very real possibility of a faked and staged Crucifixion played out by Jesus, and his two secret disciples.
And you have no comment (ignored) on this concerning your obvious lies concerning Jesus' mothers' after care.
St. John the theologian was not just an apostle, but was even entrusted with taking care of Jesus' mother Mary.
The identity of the disciple allocated to the after care for Jesus' mother is never ever revealed. So you are wrong on that score and so is the not very observant bible bashing teacher who taught you this. But I will take an educated stab and say that it was the once believed to be "dead - now risen - Lazarus" who Jesus was talking to from the cross and giving instructions to.
And my reason for this comes from the scriptures.
Please read carefully>>>>When Lazarus is first reported to be only "sick" , these are the words used by the messenger:
John 11 King James Version (KJV)11 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.2 (It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.) 3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.
Now read >>>>John 19:26-27 King James Version (KJV)26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
So I am guessing he was instructing the once supposedly "dead" Lazarus. One has to wonder yet again, why this duty of after care was allocated to "dead" Lazarus, when Jesus had quite a large family of brothers and sisters. The Gospel of Mark (6:3) and the Gospel of Matthew (13:55-56) mention James, Joseph/Joses, Judas/Jude and Simon as brothers of Jesus, the son of Mary. The same verses also mention unnamed sisters of Jesus.One also has to wonder why the son of god Jesus couldn't look after his own mother once he came back from the "dead". I mean, he was only gone three days wasn't he?
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@Athias
So as of yet, it has not been demonstrated that anyone on the planet has a mental "illness."
Was Jesus "mad"? Anyone knows that to call someone "mad" is simply a cheap form of abuse. But what is it when the bible uses the word? What's more, what is it when Jesus' own family say of him having "lost his mind" - thought he was "crazy" - said "he's gone mad" - and to be "out of his mind" - and " he has become mad" ? Mark 3:21
madness
the state of having a serious mental illness.
out of one's mind
- having lost control of one's mental faculties. having lost control of one's mental faculties.
Similar:
mad
insane
deranged
demented
not in one's right mind
non compos mentis
unbalanced
mad as a hatter
mad as a March hare
away with the fairies
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@Athias
You have conveyed to me that you have either the unwillingness
And from the beginning of this thread you have ignored all my uncomfortable and awkward questions. Questions that you had no intention of answering, ever.
Your original reference, the one that was subject to dispute, was the King James Version; this most recent reference is from the New International Version.
So!? Is not a bible a bible? Is not a Christian bible a bible? Are you now going to claim that not all bibles are correct and that only the bible that suits your own narrative is the correct bible?
I will say it again;
YOU and ethnag - popoff - 5 have BOTH made the silly argument that Lazarus was already dead "so how could they die with him if he was already dead". Posts 19 & 21
I ask you this , how then can a dead man walk if he is "dead"
43 When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!” 44 The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face. ^^^^^^^^^^
So by your own standards of deduction, tell me, How can he walk anywhere if he is physically "dead".!!??
Your argument now is that I have posted a verse from another bible, SO WHAT!!? There are many bibles that have this EXACT same verse""" LOOK>>>
John 11:44
The dead man came out,
And the dead man came out,
The dead man came
The dead man came
The dead man came out.
And the dead came forth,
The dead man came out,
before you put out this sophistry
And let me add; that silly argument that they "couldn't die with Lazarus because he was already dead" is pure SOPHISTRY from both of you.
My father, was always saying to us kinds, that "sometimes he wished he could have died with his best friend" after seeing him shot through the head in the trenches. So away with your bullshit "sophistry"
The bible , any bible, simply doesn't agree with how you are reading it, especial in the case of this "miracle" of making a - stinking rotten corpse of a "dead men" alive again.
You are simply regurgitating what it is you have been taught. You haven't thought this ancient garbled classical mess out for yourself. You have been steered to the easily 'explainable' verses while being steered completely away from the very problematic and completely UN-explainable verses.
As I have said above
If Lazarus suffered a sickness from anything it was the fact that he was "sick to death" of the whole movement. Lazarus lost his faith, not in his god or maybe not even Jesus. He lost his faith in the movement. They were all wanted men with prices on their heads especially Lazarus and Jesus and Lazarus no longer wanted any part of it, this is why he "died" and preferred to return to where " the dead bury the dead".
Luke 9:60 King James Version (KJV)
60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
I will entertain this no more.
Oh I am sad.
Good luck in your future debates, Stephen.
I will always have the bible to fall back on won't I.
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@Alec
My approach is if your a peaceful immigrant you can amongst us
Indeed, ' when in Rome' etc etc, and you are LEGAL
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@Alec
Illegal Immigration.UK
Pakistani Muslim rape gang epidemic of white female children and young teenage girls. UK
Government too soft on deportation of foreign criminals. UK
Muslim Jihads that want to destroy western culture and civilization. World Wide/UK
Main Stream Media not calling it what is . Example; dropping the word illegal and simply addressing illegals as "migrants" making a perilous journey." UK
You would have done better asking to list 10 most important issues . I would have listed;
Overseas Aid. UK
Growing Food Banks. UK
Scar stories concerning the cyclical and natural phenomenon of climate change. MSM UK
Persecution of the genuine sick and unemployed. UK
Social Housing; the lack of. UK
Not necessarily in that order.
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@Alec
Tells me all I need to know about you. You speak from a pit of extreme ignorance.What a puritan; getting angry at someone because they didn't know the term for a male prostitute.
I am sure you can be excused for some of the things you ask, at only 17 years of age Alec. Of course there are those who know all about the world from the embryonic stage of development.
"There are naive questions, tedious questions, ill-phrased questions, questions put after inadequate self-criticism. But every question is a cry to understand the world. There is no such thing as a dumb question".
Carl Sagan, one of the greatest minds of my life time.
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@Greyparrot
Is Pelosi's son involved?
'Any answers Nancy?' Donald Trump tries to get a reaction from Speaker Pelosi over a report alleging her son may have been involved in a Ukrainian corruption scandal
"referencing the report alleging that Pelosi and her son, Paul Pelosi Jr., were involved in a similar Ukrainian corruption scandal as former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter are accused of".
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@Mopac
You don't get it.
It is always someone else who " doesn't get it", isn't it, Mopac. It never YOU or your church, is it?
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@Mopac
The catechuman phase lasts a year or more.
Calm me a cynic, but that would be a simple 'probationary' period of initiation. One of five. This is a simple bullshit ritual to convince the new disciple that he is on the way to being accepted by god (and the movement) This of course will also depend on how much money the new disciple can offer to the movement. The more you have , the more you give, the higher you get. Just like any other freeloading organisation.
This is what happens when one doesn't give to the movement;
5 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. [...............................]
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. [...............................]
10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
Yes this poor man and his wife were excommunicated (died) from the "church" for not giving all they had earned from a sale of some land. But Jesus (and the movement in particular) loves you, If you have enough fkn Dough.
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@ludofl3x
For pete's sake the Catholic church believes in actual ghosts.
Among many other supernatural things, if the scriptures are to be taken at face value.
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@Alec
The 1 requirement for it is the prostitute must have their tubes tied.
I would have thought that contraception would be part of any sensible prostitutes tool kit.
-> @Deb-8-a-bull wrote. What about gigolos ?-> @Alec What are those?
I know I have asked before but seriously Alec, how old are you , really?
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@Mopac
You are talking nonsense. You are just making things up.
What nonsense? What have I made up?
You have made up the story of John and your church being given the job of looking after the mother of Jesus. I have simply provided biblical evidence that suggests that Lazarus was given the guardianship. I didn't make up the verses, Mopac, but you have made up and unsubstantiated story
You don't care about what is true.
That is your opinion. And not a surprising one coming from a devout christian.
Debating with you is not profitable,
That will be because my beliefs concerning these scriptures, do not agree with yours.
because your intention is only to be subversive.
Getting at the truth is not subversive. I don't care to change your beliefs. My intention is to listen to your explanations for what are the most garbled, ambiguous, half stories and falsehoods that these scriptures throw up on a regular basis. Because you cannot answer my questions does not mean I set out to "subvert, you or anyone else. I just want your explanations ; not your - made up as you go - excuses when challenged with a prickly question from your own fkn scriptures!!!
If you make yourself beyond reproach,
Not at all. Stop being ridiculous. I am not perfect by any means. And I am not always right. but I can and admit that, when I am.. You on the other hand cannot. Your religion doesn't afford you that comfort, does it. You can always correct me if ever you believe I am wrong but please do it with factual evidence and not what you only believe presented as fact.
what is the point in debating?
You are the one refusing to answer questions concerning your own faith. here for instance >> post 63 https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3347/one-of-the-most-enigmatic-verse-in-all-christianity?page=3
.
I am not interested in arguing with someone who is uneducated and takes themselves as an expert.
First part is wrong and the second part is also wrong. But I do know these scriptures inside out. I just have a different, wide eyed take on them that is apposed to your take on them. But can define for me an expert in religious matters? You seem to think that one only has to believe to be an "expert"
I'm sorry Stephen, I don't respect your viewpoint,
don't be sorry, I don't care!!!! I don't respect the lies and bullshite that you call the Gospel "truth"!. And I certainly do not like the way it has been presented, preached, interpreted and dictated by people such as you over the millennia.
nor do I respect your approach to these subjects.
No one is asking you to. but my approach it is
You have the tact and integrity of an ambush journalist.
That will be asking questions that are extremely uncomfortable for you. Particularly those you simply cannot answer without telling lies and making up stories.
Happy New Year.
Which won't be much different to the happy one I have just had. Thank you.
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@Mopac
They want to kill Jesus in Jerusalem. Visiting Lazarus is dangerous.
Yes they wanted to kill everyone connected to Jesus. But they were going to Bethany. The safest place for him.
Visiting Lazarus is dangerous.
Stop it!!!!!
Jesus lived in Bethany . He lived off the women there who gave to him "of their substance". He ate in the in the house of Simon "the leper", in Bethany .He was anointed there in Bethany. And his entry into Jerusalem started in Bethany.
And he went to raise his sick, sleeping "dead" best friend Lazarus in BETHANY!! The village of Bethany is referenced in relation to five incidents in the New Testament, in which the word Bethany appears 11 times.
Who is it that Jesus is talking to when he says "" let us go unto him." ?
And where about is it that Jesus means they should go to?
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@Athias
I've entertained this long enough
What!!!!? Are you not even going to explain this before you go?
You and ethnag - popoff - 5 have BOTH made the silly argument that Lazarus was already dead asking "so how could they die with him if he was already dead". Posts 19 & 21
I ask you this , how then can a dead man walk if he is "dead"
43 When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!” 44 The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face. ^^^^^^^^^^
So going by your own understanding and reasoning, the scripture states "The man" that is "dead", but was walking out of the tomb. How can he walk anywhere if he is physically "dead".!!??
Enjoy the rest of your day, sir.
I nearly always do, Athias
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@Tradesecret
Did Jesus "raise Thomas and the pother disciples from the dead"?No, but why should he do that? This was a specific resurrection - and for a specific purpose.
It certainly was wasn't it. Now why don't you explain to me and those that care, what was special and "specific" about this particular "resurrection" of the "dead" man Lazarus?
And what was the special "specific" purpose of the "raising"?
What was they worried about? If the chief priests who sought to kill Lazarus had succeeded in putting Lazarus to a real and physical and mortal death wouldn't Jesus have simply "raised him from the dead" again? He was after all, the only disciple that it is mentioned that "Jesus loved".John 11:3.Tis true Jesus could have raised him from the dead again if he wanted to. So perhaps this was more than just about raising one man from the dead.but why would Jesus need to do it again? [.........]Or it really means is that you and I don't have an answer to that question.
Why did he do it in the first place? Why didn't he go immediately on hearing about "the one he loved" being sick in the first place? He tells of even being "glad" that he wasn't there!!!!
And why would he not re- resurrect the disciple "he loved". You are clutching at straws and stating nothing factual. You are attempting to interpret scripture and force an opinion as fact to cover your own ignorance and create a new narrative. You have done this before as do all devout Christians when actually challenged on what it is you believe.
Or it really means is that you and I don't have an answer to that question.
You speak for yourself. My belief in what was going on is no more fanciful than your blind faith in the resurrection of a "dead" man.
Why is it that Lazarus at first was said to be only "sick" and then "sleeping" and then finally pronounced "dead" by Jesus?He had his reasons - v. 4. He is the resurrection and the life.
That doesn't answer the question does it. Why first only "sick", then just sleeping and then, with no explanation, stone cold "dead"? , is what I asked you.
Jesus himself said that Lazarus was only sleeping and that the "This sickness is not unto death"!!!? But according to the scripture and your own belief Lazarus did "die" didn't he? How can Lord god almighty, god in three persons get it so wrong?He did not get it wrong. This did not end in death -
This from you is blatant denial. The scripture clearly states the sequence leading to Lazarus' supposed "death".
it ended in resurrection.
His life ended in "death" , if the scriptures are to be believed. Stop trying to rewrite the narrative.
How can you with all of your learning get it so wrong?
I didn't and I haven't. If Lazarus suffered a sickness from anything it was the fact that he was "sick to death" of the whole movement. Lazarus lost his faith, not in his god or maybe not even Jesus. He lost his faith in the movement. They were all wanted men especially Lazarus and Jesus and Lazarus no longer wanted any part of it, this is why he "died" and preferred to return to where " the dead bury the dead".
Luke 9:60 King James Version (KJV)
60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
Matthew 8:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
It was the same place that Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, were returned to when they held back funds to the movement; they too were simply thrown back to the land where the "dead bury the dead" Acts 5.
Indeed you will have it that these poor folk just simply dropped down dead: struck down by the lord. But that is not true is it?
Acts 5: 1-10
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
And the next verse explains it all: 11 And great fear came upon all the church,[movement] and upon as many as heard these things. I bet it did. These poor folk were being threatened into handing over all their money to the "CHURCH" under the threat of excommunication. They actually feared for their lives once they heard about this.
You simply cannot face the fact that what I am saying explains all this supposed resurrection from the "dead".
with all of your learning
I don't need your patronage.
If the resurrection of a "dead" Lazarus was truly a miracle then it was Jesus's greatest of all his miracles wouldn't you agree?
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Who was it then that as you say "entrusted St. John the theologian with taking care of Jesus' mother Mary"?"Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home."
And I have already posted that verse that indicates that the "the disciple standing by, whom he loved," was Lazarus.
John 19:26-27 King James Version (KJV)26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
And I have affirmed this by posting the first time the scriptures mention " Lazarus the disciple whom he loved:
John 11 King James Version (KJV)11 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.2 (It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.) 3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.
The scriptures disagree with you. As I have already pointed out to you at post 15 above.
And before you say that it doesn't say John directly, the chue h has known since the beginning of John.
But where is your evidence? You have none do you? Just tellin me " the church has known from the beginning " is not evidence , is it? The scriptures point to the guardian as being Lazarus. There is absolutely no mention of, or reason to believe, that "John " whoever he - was the guardian of Jesus' mother.
What was transfered to John was received by the church,
But you have not a single shred of evidence that proves that.. You have created a strawman argument
and so now we Orthodox consider Mary our mother as well.
You can designate Rumpelstiltskin as your father if you wish, it makes no difference to me, no more than you have adopted t the "virgin" Mary as you mum .
If Mary had other children,
She did, have other children and the scriptures clearly say so. But you don't like that idea yet won't call the scriptures out for being wrong - in your opinion. Tell me. Are the scriptures wrong? Are you saying that the Virgin Mary didn't have other children of her own at all and that Jesus did not have brothers and sisters?
Jesus would not have entrusted his mother to John,
Exactly. He wouldn't have would he? And he wasn't . That is why this John - whoever he is- clearly is not even mentioned as being her guardian. But everything points to the once "dead" Lazarus, doesn't it?
You are full of absolute nonsense that you make up as you go.
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@Mopac
Bethany is literally........
It matters not! All of Jesus business was conducted and directed from the safe haven of Bethany. That is where they were going, that is where they went to see a "dead" Lazarus. That is where Lazarus was "raised". Do not try to play down the importance of Bethany to Jesus. You are denying BIBLICAL FACTS!!!
You have absolutely no argument, you are making a fool of yourself.
So you won't mind answering these harmless questions, for a harmless old fool, will you , Mopac. Or have you been ordered not to by cowards who also cannot answer these questions themselves?
Who is it that Jesus is talking to when he says "" let us go unto him." ?
And where about is it that Jesus means they should go to?
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We know it was John who watched Mary, it is a fact attested to since the beginning.
Who was it then that as you say "entrusted St. John the theologian with taking care of Jesus' mother Mary"?
Post 13 above
--> @Mopac wrote St. John the theologian was not just an apostle, but was even entrusted with taking care of Jesus' mother Mary.
And you skipped this , regardless of who it was trusted with the care of his mother
One has to wonder yet again, why this duty of after care was allocated to "dead" Lazarus, when Jesus had quite a large family of brothers and sisters?
The Gospel of Mark (6:3) and the Gospel of Matthew (13:55-56) mention James, Joseph/Joses, Judas/Jude and Simon as brothers of Jesus, the son of Mary. The same verses also mention unnamed sisters of Jesus.
One also has to wonder why the son of god Jesus couldn't look after his own mother once he came back from the "dead". I mean, he was only gone three days wasn't he?
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I believe that places me thoroughly in the category of being on topic.
As you know, the thread is not about Muhammad.
NO. The crux of the thread - that being the decisive or most important point at issue- is the about the very real possibility of a faked and staged Crucifixion played out by Jesus, and his two secret disciples.
And you have no comment (ignored) on this concerning your obvious lies concerning Jesus' mothers' after care.
St. John the theologian was not just an apostle, but was even entrusted with taking care of Jesus' mother Mary.
The identity of the disciple allocated to the after care for Jesus' mother is never ever revealed. So you are wrong on that score and so is the not very observant bible bashing teacher who taught you this. But I will take an educated stab and say that it was the once believed to be "dead - now risen - Lazarus" who Jesus was talking to from the cross and giving instructions to.
And my reason for this comes from the scriptures.
Please read carefully>>>>When Lazarus is first reported to be only "sick" , these are the words used by the messenger:
John 11 King James Version (KJV)11 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.2 (It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.) 3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.
Now read >>>>John 19:26-27 King James Version (KJV)26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
So I am guessing he was instructing the once supposedly "dead" Lazarus. One has to wonder yet again, why this duty of after care was allocated to "dead" Lazarus, when Jesus had quite a large family of brothers and sisters. The Gospel of Mark (6:3) and the Gospel of Matthew (13:55-56) mention James, Joseph/Joses, Judas/Jude and Simon as brothers of Jesus, the son of Mary. The same verses also mention unnamed sisters of Jesus.One also has to wonder why the son of god Jesus couldn't look after his own mother once he came back from the "dead". I mean, he was only gone three days wasn't he?
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@Mopac
They want to kill Jesus in Jerusalem. Visiting Lazarus is dangerous.
Yes they wanted to kill everyone connected to Jesus. But they were going to Bethany. The safest place for him.
Visiting Lazarus is dangerous.
Stop it!!!!!
Jesus lived in Bethany . He lived off the women there who gave to him "of their substance". He ate in the in the house of Simon "the leper", in Bethany .He was anointed there in Bethany. And his entry into Jerusalem started in Bethany.
And he went to raise his sick, sleeping "dead" best friend Lazarus in BETHANY!! The village of Bethany is referenced in relation to five incidents in the New Testament, in which the word Bethany appears 11 times.
Who is it that Jesus is talking to when he says "" let us go unto him." ?
And where about is it that Jesus means they should go to?
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