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@Mopac
What did Lazarus die of?What was he doing in the tomb when it was, apparently, common knowledge that Jesus could "raise the dead"?How stupid were these Chief Priests not to realise that If Jesus had "raised a dead man" to life once before that he would simply do it again if they succeeded in their mission of murdering Lazarus "whom he lovest" ?Why do YOU think the chief priests wanted Lazarus Dead?Why would these priests want Lazarus dead?Tell me how can the dead bury the dead?How did Jesus know that Lazarus was dead?Why would Jesus allow these apparently young sane healthy men to die?Did we hear any protestations from the life giving Jesus concerning the ridiculousness and pitiful waste of life that Thomas was proposing!?Did they die?Did Jesus "raise Thomas and the pother disciples from the dead"?What was they worried about? If the chief priests who sought to kill Lazarus had succeeded in putting Lazarus to a real and physical and mortaldeath wouldn't Jesus have simply "raised him from the dead" again? He was after all, the only disciple that it is mentioned that "Jesus loved".John 11:3.Why is it that Lazarus at first was said to be only "sick" and then "sleeping" and then finally pronounced "dead" by Jesus?Jesus himself said that Lazarus was only sleeping and that the "This sickness is not unto death"!!!? But according to the scripture and your own belief Lazarus did "die" didn't he? How can Lord god almighty, god in three persons get it so wrong?You are splitting hairs.
You have missed the questions.
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I don't think that the books of Samuel (or 1st and 2nd Kingdoms as they are titled in the septuigant) are texts that have been preserved too well.
Which makes them unreliable .
I have heard an argument that an early copyist error produced this anomaly,
Which brings the bible into the realms of unreliability.
It would have to be an early copyist error,
Which brings the bible into the realms of unreliability.
And no one has explained away this seemingly new heroic interloper:
2 Samuel 21:19 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
19 And there was a third battle in Gob against the Philistines, in which Adeodatus the son of the Forrest an embroiderer of Bethlehem slew Goliath the Gethite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
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However what interested me most was your quote "It is impossible for you to accept that underneath these scriptures that there is a massive power struggle going on with no miracles happening ." That was quite revealing of your position.
You say that as if I have been hiding my beliefs. I haven't. I have been very open on many occasions about my stance on these scriptures concerning their ambiguous half stories, And there is a massive power struggle going on that the gospellers and or the editors seem to want to play down.
The story reads at odds with your underlying desire for rationalisation. It is difficult for you to take at face value "miracles".
It is not difficult for me at all not to take these stories at face value. I don't and never could. I believe that there is something more going on in these scriptures that the writers or editors don't want us to know. That is my belief. I have covered the "raising of Lazarus" already in a thread all of its own, here https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/416/lazarus-the-raising? But this thread is about why, seemingly healthy people wanted to "die" when Christianity to my mind is all about life, giving life, sparing life, love of life, life everlasting and life after death . Jesus himself speaks only of life and living:
John 11: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. And indeed the very idea and purpose of Jesus "raising" the dead Lazarus, was to bring him back to life.
There is absolutely no reaction from Jesus when Thomas makes this wildly unreasonable and illogical suggestion.
Although why that is the case when you clearly believe in some kind of deity is intriguing.
Assumption.
He was "living" proof of Jesus' authority over death.
No. I don't agree and you are falling back on miracles to explain this story away. Those priests wanted Lazarus dead because Jesus had "raised him" to the priesthood where they believed he had no authority to do so. And they were afraid of losing control and power the temple (and its lucrative funds) and the population over to Jesus. the scripture appears to confirm this
John 12:10-15 King James Version (KJV)
10 But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death;
11 Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.
And the "belief" mentioned here is the "belief" that he was king of the Jews and nothing to do with bringing "dead" corpses to life.
The people of Israel could hardly refute his miracle raising from the dead.
Why couldn't they? did all " the people o Israel" witness stinking dead corpse of Lazarus being "raised from the dead" They could refute it and they did. for a start the Sadducee did not believe in resurrection of the dead. Were they not included as being "people of Israel"?
After all - he was dead for four days and every one knew it.
So you say. I don't know it and many in 1st century Palestine didn't know it either
Still let us get back to your ritualistic raising of the dead -
No. I have done that had had no answers to my questions in return. THE PURPOSE OF THIS PARTICULAR THREAD IS-
from post one and the original UNANSWERED question is
"SO, The question of course has to be why would two fit and healthy people wish to "die" along with the supposedly very dead Lazarus!? Who it is said, had been dead, for "four days"!!!! (yes I know)" .https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3347/one-of-the-most-enigmatic-verse-in-all-christianity?
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@Mopac
Thomas is refering to the fact that they are going to Judea, where they want to kill Jesus. Lazarus is in Judea.
John 11 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany...
Which is said to be over 2 miles from Jerusalem the east of Jerusalem.
John 11; 17 So when Jesus came, He found that he had already been in the tomb four days. 18 Now Bethany was near Jerusalem...
Yet it was. In fact it is said to be over 2 miles from Jerusalem the east of Jerusalem.
18 Now Bethany was nigh unto Jerusalem, about fifteen furlongs off:
So actually, yes, context does clear this up.
No it does not.
What did Lazarus die of?
What was he doing in the tomb when it was, apparently, common knowledge that Jesus could "raise the dead"?
How stupid were these Chief Priests not to realise that If Jesus had "raised a dead man" to life once before that he would simply do it again if they succeeded in their mission of murdering Lazarus "whom he lovest" ?
Why do YOU think the chief priests wanted Lazarus Dead?
Why would these priests want Lazarus dead?
Tell me how can the dead bury the dead?
How did Jesus know that Lazarus was dead?
Why would Jesus allow these apparently young sane healthy men to die?
Did we hear any protestations from the life giving Jesus concerning the ridiculousness and pitiful waste of life that Thomas was proposing!?
Did they die?
Did Jesus "raise Thomas and the pother disciples from the dead"?
What was they worried about? If the chief priests who sought to kill Lazarus had succeeded in putting Lazarus to a real and physical and mortal
death wouldn't Jesus have simply "raised him from the dead" again? He was after all, the only disciple that it is mentioned that "Jesus loved".John 11:3.
Why is it that Lazarus at first was said to be only "sick" and then "sleeping" and then finally pronounced "dead" by Jesus?
Jesus himself said that Lazarus was only sleeping and that the "This sickness is not unto death"!!!? But according to the scripture and your own belief Lazarus did "die" didn't he? How can Lord god almighty, god in three persons get it so wrong?
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Yes, So what? YOURS totally relies on faith without question and not fact. On miracles without proof. And the belief in something that has never been proven or repeated.Once again, your belief is irrelevant.
I have said that already:
Stephen wrote: I don't need you to accept anything . You don't have to accept what I have wrote OR what I believe for you to answer questions concerning the scriptures, do you?
Your questions are tantamount to "having me prove you wrong"
No it's not. Because as you say above and , what I "believe is irrelevant", especial to any and all theists. You are all very good at that. Those questions are genuine questions that you simply cannot answer. That now is clearly evident. Those unanswered questions concerning this whole of the enigmatic and ambiguous tale prove me right, even if you don't answer them. And again, you don't have to believe what I believe do you.
So I'm not going to do you any favors .......rather than your providing proof and/or substance to the affirmation of your claim.
I find it amazing that you are asking me to provide proof and substance to for what I believe whilst totally ignoring that your whole religious belief system is totally faith based without evidence or facts or substance. I have asked you some simple question concerning the scripture - I have not asked you about your faith in them. I have said above already that, I don't care. If I had simply started another thread before and independent of this one, with these very questions, you still wouldn't answer them. You cannot answer them and I can accept that.
And I'm not "ducking" reasonable questions concerning [my] own scriptures." I'm "ducking" your attempt to defer your onus and place it on me.
Ducking is exactly what you are doing. Your'e problem here is that while your struggling to respond my questions with filibustering and protests of why you won't be answering my questions, you have became so fixated on "raising " the dead. My question is all about "dying".
This is my first and initial question at post one (1)
"SO, The question of course has to be why would two fit and healthy people wish to "die" along with the supposedly very dead Lazarus!? Who it is said, had been dead, for "four days"!!!! (yes I know)" .https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3347/one-of-the-most-enigmatic-verse-in-all-christianity?
You will notice that there isn't a single reference in that question to being "raised" from the dead. The question was all to do with why they seemingly wanting to "die"? Remember what I said about the "dead". Remember which biblical stories I quoted that explains what the "dead are". And if not for me, try to work out and answer for yourself why it was that Lazarus at first was said to be only "sick" and then "sleeping" and then finally pronounced "dead" by Jesus himself.
You asked this earlier:
Thomas was an apostle. So by your description, he was already "raised from the dead." Why would he then suggest that they "die" only to be "raised"again?
It was a good and fare question, you ignored my reply.
What did Lazarus die of?
What was he doing in the tomb when it was, apparently, common knowledge that Jesus could "raise the dead"?
I asked you:
How stupid were these Chief Priests not to realise that If Jesus had "raised a dead man" to life once before that he would simply do it again if they succeeded in their mission of murdering Lazarus "whom he lovest" ? You avoided it.
You haven't haven't told me why YOU think the chief priests wanted Lazarus Dead? You avoided it.
I asked you:
Why would these priests want Lazarus dead? You avoided it.
I asked you:
Tell me how can the dead bury the dead? You avoided it.
I asked you:
How did Jesus know that Lazarus was dead? You avoided it.
I asked you:
Why would Jesus allow these apparently young sane healthy men to die? You avoided it.
I asked you:
Did we hear any protestations from the life giving Jesus concerning the ridiculousness and pitiful waste of life that Thomas was proposing!????You avoided it.
I asked you:
Did they die? You avoided it.
I asked you:
Did Jesus "raise Thomas and the pother disciples from the dead"? You avoided it.
I asked you:
What was they worried about? If the chief priests who sought to kill Lazarus had succeeded in putting Lazarus to a real and physical and mortal
death wouldn't Jesus have simply "raised him from the dead" again? He was after all, the only disciple that it is mentioned that "Jesus loved".John 11:3. You avoided it.
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@Alec
I flip on religion a lot,
But still it appears, that you haven't caught on to what is causing you to "flip alot".
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@Alec
This doesn't belong in the religious section.
I was wondering about that myself. But then again, Islamic law is made up of the of the Quran, Sunnah and Hadith.
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@Athias
The headgear they wear is known as "the Mitre" which is by no coincidence shaped like a fish's mouth.
I can in part agree with that. It may not be "coincidence".
The Fish/ Pisces was the sign of Christians but not necessarily the Christ himself. This is probably why we have references to the fish, as in the belief that some his disciples were "fishermen" and Jesus spoke of making them "fishers of men". loaves and " two fish". The age before the Fish/ Pisces, was the Ram/ Aries. Where, in the OT there are many references to sheep and rams and rams horns and of Pharaoh hating shepherds.
I believe that this is maybe why that there is 10 years approx discrepancy concerning the biblical birth of Jesus. It appears, whether by accident or design, that at least one of the of these gospels were attempting to make Jesus of the house of the Ram/Aries and related to the age Moses & Joshua and the one was attempting make him a Fish of the house of Pisces. The thing about these celestial houses that the ancients lived by, was that those connected to the outgoing house/age didn't want to give up authority, ruler ship or dominion to the new incoming age/house. It usually ended in devastating war, slaughter bloodshed and carnage.
And in Jesus' time those that occupied the throne and the temple, as far as Jesus was concerned, were impostors. And this probably explains the hate that the 'impostors' had for Jesus and his followers, and would also explain why they would want this, believed mild mannered meek pacifist, turn the other cheek , dead.
I have mentioned before here somewhere that according to some astrologers we are entering or are now in the age of Water/ Aquarius. This shouldn't surprise anyone who actually understand how these Houses are supposed to work in relation to mankind.
Has the the Roman church handed authority over to another house? I don't know, but it should be observed that as a rule, when a Pope died his "fisherman's ring" was destroyed and a new ring was forged for the new Pope. This didn't happen the last time a new Pope was elected. Indeed , the ring of Pope Benedict XVI was kept and placed in the Vatican history museum, where it can be viewed to this day. And another coincidence was that this Pope retired, from a job that was supposed to be for life until death. And I don't believe either that at the same time that the Pope "retired", withing a few days here in the UK the - then - Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams "stood down" and also retired his post to rank outsider Justin Welby.
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I am not avoiding your questions; I have yet to accept your premise because you have not substantiated it.
I don't need you to accept anything . You don't have to accept what I have wrote OR what I believe for you to answer questions concerning the scriptures, do you? They are simple genuine questions that you are still avoiding without reason/ There is no excuse for you not to address them at all.
Your premise completely relies on the rejection of the possibility of resurrection.
Yes, So what? YOURS totally relies on faith without question and not fact. On miracles without proof. And the belief in something that has never been proven or repeated. Have you for instance "raised anyone from dead"? Have you witnessed anyone being "raised from the dead" ?. I think I have made my observations very clear. But this should give you absolutely no reason to avoid my questions.
and the assumption that raising the dead is a symbolic gesture of granting "priesthood."
Or to some other rank in the movement. You are now just repeating what I have stated whilst still avoiding my questions. Why?
To be a part of Jesus's inner circle one had to be " raised from the dead" into the circle of the living.Thomas was an apostle. So by your description, he was already "raised from the dead."
Thomas was of a lower ranking status in the movement. He was just an disciple among other disciples. Why is it that Lazarus at first was said to be only "sick" and then "sleeping" and then finally pronounced "dead" by Jesus, if we are to believe what you want us to believe. And remember, this was the SAME "doubting" Thomas, which is called Didymus, wasn't it. It was wasn't it?
Your conjecture, and that's all it is, makes no sense.
Remember Jesus himself said that Lazarus was only sleeping and that the "This sickness is not unto death"!!!? But according to the scripture and your own belief Lazarus did "die" didn't he? How can Lord god almighty, god in three persons get it so wrong???!!!!! And he not only got it completely wrong, the scriptures states that he could have saved him from "dying" had he not "tarried" a further two days done by the river. <<<<, Again it is these scriptures and your belief in them that " makes no sense".
I will entertain your questions once you substantiate your premise.
Then I will assume you have absolutely no intention of affording me the same time and courtesy that I have afforded you.
You have no answers to my questions. And I am not surprised, my questions on this particular enigmatic biblical point have never been answered.
Your conjecture, even with the use of this premise, makes no sense.
It is clearly your own belief that makes no sense, Athias. and this is why you are ducking reasonable questions concerning your own scriptures.
I asked you:
How stupid were these Chief Priests not to realise that If Jesus had "raised a dead man" to life once before that he would simply do it again if they succeeded in their mission of murdering Lazarus "whom he lovest" ? You avoided it.
You haven't haven't told me why YOU think the chief priests wanted Lazarus Dead? You avoided it.
I asked you:
Why would these priests want Lazarus dead? You avoided it.
I asked you:
Tell me how can the dead bury the dead? You avoided it.
I asked you:
How did Jesus know that Lazarus was dead? You avoided it.
I asked you:
Why would Jesus allow these apparently young sane healthy men to die? You avoided it.
I asked you:
Did we hear any protestations from the life giving Jesus concerning the ridiculousness and pitiful waste of life that Thomas was proposing!????You avoided it.
I asked you:
Did they die? You avoided it.
I asked you:
Did Jesus "raise Thomas and the pother disciples from the dead"? You avoided it.
I asked you:
What was they worried about? If the chief priests who sought to kill Lazarus had succeeded in putting Lazarus to a real and physical and mortal
death wouldn't Jesus have simply "raised him from the dead" again? He was after all, the only disciple that it is mentioned that "Jesus loved".John 11:3. You avoided it.
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@zedvictor4
You advice turned out not to be so good.Some people hey!
Some people indeed, zedvictor4:
Date: 12/23/2019
Moderator: Joint-moderator decision
ethang5 has been banned for 14-days for a continuous pattern of violations of the personal attacks section of the COC, with hate speech serving as an aggravating factor.
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@Dr.Franklin
sharia law is bad
'Queen is the enemy of Islam and must die': Ex-inmate reveals Islamist extremists preside over Sharia trials, ISIS pledges of allegiance and punishment beatings inside UK jails.
I never did get my answer for the questions at post 5 above
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@Athias
why would Thomas then state that they should go there and die with [Lazarus]?
You have asked this twice now and I believe I have addressed it twice already above . So I will make it more clear for you,
both with another answer and another question to you, questions of mine that you keep failing to address.
Thomas suggests going along to the "raising" of Lazarus and to "die" along with him in the hope that they too may be "raised" to a higher status in the priesthood if not the movement in general. It was all to do with being "raised" i.e. promoted in the ranks of the movement.
Now your turn. try not to avoid them>
Why would Jesus allow these apparently young sane healthy men to die?
Did we hear any protestations from the life giving Jesus concerning the ridiculousness and pitiful waste of life that Thomas was proposing!????
Did they die?
Did Jesus "raise them from the dead"?
What was they worried about? If the chief priests who sought to kill Lazarus had succeeded in putting Lazarus to a real and physical and mortal
death wouldn't Jesus have simply "raised him from the dead" again? He was after all, the only disciple that it is mentioned that "Jesus loved".John 11:3
Your conjecture, even with the use of this premise, makes no sense.
I mean, how stupid were these Chief Priests not to realise that If Jesus had "raised a dead man" to life once before that he would
simply do it again if they succeeded in their mission of murdering Lazarus "whom he lovest" ."? <<<<< It is clearly your own belief that makes no sense, Athias.
You haven't haven't told me why YOU think the chief priests wanted Lazarus Dead?
I asked you:
Why would these priests want Lazarus dead? You avoided it.
I asked you:
Tell me how can the dead bury the dead? You avoided it.
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@Athias
You're grasping.
I have no reason to grasp at anything. You are wrong. They didn't go to Judea did they, and the Judea conversation was apart from the sick, then sleeping and then dead Lazarus, wasn't it? And it is there for those interested to read.
Your not happy with my observations and not happy that I have highlighted this enigma. I don't care . There is no way on this earth that another man brought back to life a stinking rotten corpse of a man who was supposedly "dead" for four days, THAT IS GRASPING. This was a ritualistic "raising" and nothing more.
And therefore, making references to Acts and Matthew hold no significance without context.
Opinion without supporting substance counts for nothing. But I will come back to this in a minute.
.
I notice you didn't answer my question. so I will answer it for you;
They wanted Lazarus dead because Jesus had "raised him" into the priest hood. The priests believed Jesus to have no authority to do so. This is why they wanted him AND Jesus dead. They were afraid of losing the nation over to its rightful king, Jesus, and newly anointed priest Lazarus.
10 But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death;
11 Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.
You are just another bible puncher who believes himself to be some great authority on these scriptures. It is impossible for you to accept that underneath these scriptures that there is a massive power struggle going on with no miracles happening . On the surface, apart from a few agitators one would believe that everyone was getting on swimmingly, they wasn't!.
Why would Thomas then state that they should go there to die with [Lazarus] if Lazarus was already dead?
I will put this simply for anyone who may be interested.
Anyone outside of Jesus's circle were known as "the dead".
To be a part of Jesus's inner circle one had to be " raised from the dead" into the circle of the living.
When one starts to understand this, it is no problem to understand those other enigmatic verses such the sudden falling down dead of Ananias with Sapphira his wife, Acts 5. Or " let the dead bury the dead" Matthew 8:22
Tell me how can the dead bury the dead? They can't can they!!!!?
But the scripture has it that a disciple wanted to have some time off to bury his own father; but look at what Jesus 's reply is to the sorrowful request, at 22 below :
Matthew 8:20-22 King James Version (KJV)
20 "And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
The above makes absolutely no sense unless you understand who "the dead" actually are. The disciple in mourning was among the living and a part of Jesus' circle, the disciples DEAD father was already among the dead. Hence the words "let the dead bury THEIR dead".
I understand that these simply truths are hard for you to swallow after all of your years of Christian indoctrination.
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And I still don't know and neither do you what scripture Jesus was referring to, Popoff.But now you know that not all scripture is in the bible,
I have always known that, Popoff. I have read hundreds if not thousand of extra biblical material. I didn't need a deceitful lying person like you to tell me. You don't even know or understand your own bible. You have even quoted a bible that contradicts itself from verse to verse hoping that somehow it will win you an argument. This shows your complete and utter lack of theological knowledge concerning your own beliefs and subject matter.
You are a fraud and fake and a utter disgrace to your religion , your church and your god.
you are correct.Thank you. Welcome amoung those who know
Lets have the above in context shall we. This above ^^^^^ is a version edited by Popoff from post 62
Post 62
You only posted the question.That is correct. The WHOLE FKN purpose of this thread was to ask a question. And you couldn't answer it. You finally said " it was from a scripture lost to history". Yeh, as if you'd fkn know, Popoff. You are full of shite that no one is really interested in only another fawning religious sycophant like yourself.
I have told you more than once Popoff, you are far from clever.
I'll burn you.and I'll burn you.And I can keep burning
You couldn't burn a barn with a blow torch, Popoff
Peter Popoff Exposed as a Evangelical Fraud
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@Athias
why would Thomas state that they should go there with Jesus to die with Lazarus?
Because it is a ritualistic "raising".
Unless you know and understand the meaning of the phrase "raising the dead", you will never understand this enigmatic verse no more than you will understand the sudden falling down dead of Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, Acts 5. Or " let the dead bury the dead" Matthew 8:22
Read this verse and answer my question below it.
John 12:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
9 Much people of the Jews therefore knew that he was there: and they came not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might see Lazarus also, whom he had raised from the dead.
10 But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death;
11 Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.
Why would these priests want Lazarus dead?
But then if you understand the meaning behind the words "raising the dead" you would understand immediately all of the enigmatic verses where "raising from the dead", "let the dead bury the dead" falling down dead" without explanation, and especially the verse in question , "Let us also go, that we may die with him".
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Ok so going by the bible of YOUR choice and have quoted above lets start with this one
--> @ethang5 at post #9 above wrote;
Here is what the NASB says…1st Samuel 17:50 – Thus David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in David’s hand.
And from the same bible that YOU have quoted above:
2 Samuel 21:19 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
So above there are two different challengers from the same bible that YOU chose.
And here we have a new challenger going by the name of Adeodatus
19 And there was a third battle in Gob against the Philistines, in which Adeodatus the son of the Forrest an embroiderer of Bethlehem slew Goliath the Gethite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
So above then we have from your own choice of bible 2 Samuel clearly contradicting 1 Samuel. And to be perfectly clear
"NASB 1st Samuel 17:50 states it was "David" .
And the same bible NASB, the bible that you chose, at 2 Samuel 21;19, states that is was "Elhanan" that killed Goliath.
And this bible, DRA states it was neither of the above two but a man called Adeodatus!
2 Samuel 21:19 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
19 And there was a third battle in Gob against the Philistines, in which Adeodatus the son of the Forrest an embroiderer of Bethlehem slew Goliath the Gethite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
19 And there was a third battle in Gob against the Philistines, in which Adeodatus the son of the Forrest an embroiderer of Bethlehem slew Goliath the Gethite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
So you chew on those for a while Popoff and get back to me when you can explain why the same bible (the bible you chose to support your bullshit) has two different killers of the giant Goliath?
And there is also the third contender who claims to have killed Goliath you could have missed it he is called Adeodatus at 2 Samuel 21:19 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
Don't let this spoil your Christmas Popoff.
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@ethang5
The Old Testament was the first place I looked simply because the bible is also "scripture" . Are you saying that I shouldn't have even looked to the Old Testament scripture for something that was said by the Christ in the New Testament scripture.?I'm saying you were ignorant and didn't know it was not in the OT.
I don't care what you are saying, it is irrelevant, Popoff. I looked in the OT because it was the first and obvious starting point. The reason I didn't know if or not is was in the Old Testament was because I looked and found it not to be there. it is called FUCKING RESEARCH!!!!!!!
If that is all you have then WHOOOPI FKN DOOO!!!! you are correct. The scripture referred to by Jesus is not the OT. How do I know this? BECAUSE I FKN LOOKED !!!!!! Popoff
The Old Testament was the first place I looked simply because the bible is also "scripture" . Are you saying that I shouldn't have even looked to the Old Testament scripture for something that was said by the Christ in the New Testament scripture.? Are you saying I was silly to even have look there in the OT? You are clutching at straws, Popoff. Anyone with an ounce of sense would have also looked to the Old Testament for the reference Christ makes in the New Testament .
If you believe I was "stupid" to even look there then you keep knocking yourself out over a non starter. The fact remains you didn't fkn know the answer to my question but instead preferred argument and conflict and are now simply posting even more unnecessary and irrelevant bullshite.
You keep going Popoff. it matters not to me.
The fact remains you didn't fkn know the answer to my question but instead preferred argument and conflict and are now simply posting even more unnecessary and irrelevant bullshiteI knew the answer shemp.
No you didn't know anything, you have answered nothing either, stop telling more fkn lies. You simply told us at post #54 that
"Jesus is referencing scripture that has been lost to history.", which is only your fkn opinion Popoff and you have not a single shred of evidence to support that at all.
That's how you now know the answer. I told you.
No you didn't know anything, you have answered nothing either. is all you have added to this thread is nothing but lies, bullshit and gobshite so stop telling more fkn lies, Popoff
And I still don't know and neither do you what scripture Jesus was referring to, Popoff.
I'll burn you.I'll burn you.And I can keep burning
You couldn't burn a rag doused in petrol. So you burn yourself out trying. Popoff
Peter Popoff Exposed as a Evangelical Fraud
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@ethang5
So all four bible versions agree that David killedGoliath with a slingshot. That is the answer to your question.
And there are those bibles that do not. You haven't explained why some say one thing and others say different, have you Popoff ?For instance why do so many bibles leave out the words - ""the brother of" as I have shown above.
You may now start pretending you don't see it.
Oh I see it, silly. It was me after all who posted what the KJV says wasn't it? Here in case you didn't see it at post one. It agrees with those bibles you have posted. LOOK POST ONE ABOVE>>>
1 Samuel 17:50 King James Version (KJV)
50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him;but there was no sword in the hand of David.
So is all you have done is repeat and quoted what I and a 4 other bibles agree on, that David Killed Goliath. Well done Popoff,
Now look at this Popoff, you say:
Here is what the NASB says…1st Samuel 17:50 – Thus David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and killed him; but there was no sword in David’s hand.
But I can tell you that particular bible also says
Sam 2
NASB: "There was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam."
You have also quoted;
Here is what the NIV says...1st Samuel 17:50 - So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone; without a sword in his hand he struck down the Philistine and killed him.
But again, the same FKN bible that you quote above also says:
Sam 2
NIV : "In another battle with the Philistine sat Gob, Elhanan son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver's rod."
So get you act together Popoff, you have some serious explaining to do.
Now get these down your neck.
Once again there was a battle with the Philistines at Gob,and Elhanan son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath of Gath. The shaft of his spear was like a weaver's beam.
There was still another battle with the Philistines at Gob. Asoldier named Elhanan killed Goliath from Gath, whose spear shaft was like a weaver's beam. Elhanan's father was Jari from Bethlehem.
There was another battle with the Philistines at Gob, and Elhanan son of Jair from Bethlehem killed Goliath from Gath,whose spear had a shaft as thick as the bar on a weaver's loom.
Once again there was a battle with the Philistines at Gob,and Elhanan son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killedGoliath the Gittite. The shaft of his spear was like a weaver's beam.
In yet another battle at Gob, Jaare-oregim theBethlehemite'sson Elhanan killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear resembled that of a weaver's beam.
When more fighting broke out with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan, son of Jaare Oregim from Bethlehem, killed Goliath of Gath. (The shaft ofGoliath's spear was like a beam used by weavers.)
And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob; and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Beth-lehemite slew Goliath theGittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
And there was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.
And there was another war in Gob with the Philistines where Elhanan, the son of Jaareoregim of Bethlehem, slew Goliath,the Gittite,the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob; and Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim the Beth-lehemite slew Goliath the Gittite,the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
And there was a battle in Rom with thePhilistines; and Eleanan son of Ariorgim the Bethleemite slew Goliath theGittite; and the staff of his spear was as a weaver's beam.
And there was a third battle in Gob against the Philistines,in which Adeodatus the son of the Forrest an embroiderer of Bethlehem slewGoliath the Gethite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
And there was again a battle at Gob with thePhilistines; and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, a Bethlehemite, smoteGoliaththe Gittite; now the shaft of his spear was like a weaver's beam.
And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob; and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Beth-lehemite slew Goliath the Gittite,the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
There was again war with the Philistines at Gob;and Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite's brother, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
Do you see that Popoff.
And you tell me I am confused. I should think anyone but complete and utter cretinous moron would be confused , especially if he hadn't even bothered to actually compare verse and bibles.
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@ethang5
That is why you searched the bible, ......You meant, which scripture in the bible.
I have already said that I had searched in many scriptures including the bible.
Post 1 What scripture says this? Is it from the Old Testament scripture or from earlier in the New Testament by another one of the gospel writers?
Post 21 "The words "out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." are certainly not from OT and I have not found this verse in any extra biblical material that I have read in over 40 years".
The Old Testament was the first place I looked simply because the bible is also "scripture" . Are you saying that I shouldn't have even looked to the Old Testament scripture for something that was said by the Christ in the New Testament scripture.? Are you saying I was silly to even have look there in the OT? You are clutching at straws, Popoff. Anyone with an ounce of sense would have also looked to the Old Testament for the reference Christ makes in the New Testament .
If you believe I was "stupid" to even look there then you keep knocking yourself out over a non starter. The fact remains you didn't fkn know the answer to my question but instead preferred argument and conflict and are now simply posting even more unnecessary and irrelevant bullshite.
You keep going Popoff. it matters not to me.
I'll burn you.You lie, and I'll burn you.And I can keep burning
You couldn't burn a rag doused in petrol. So you burn yourself out trying. Popoff
Peter Popoff Exposed as a Evangelical Fraud
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That is why you searched the bible, ......You meant, which scripture in the bible.
I have already said that I had searched in many scriptures including the bible.
Post 1 What scripture says this? Is it from the Old Testament scripture or from earlier in the New Testament by another one of the gospel writers?
Post 21 "The words "out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." are certainly not from OT and I have not found this verse in any extra biblical material that I have read in over 40 years".
The Old Testament was the first place I looked simply because the bible is also "scripture" . Are you saying that I shouldn't have even looked to the Old Testament scripture for something that was said by the Christ in the New Testament scripture.? Are you saying I was silly to even have look there in the OT? You are clutching at straws, Popoff. Anyone with an ounce of sense would have also looked to the Old Testament for the reference Christ makes in the New Testament .
If you believe I was "stupid" to even look there then you keep knocking yourself out over a non starter. The fact remains you didn't fkn know the answer to my question but instead preferred argument and conflict and are now simply posting even more unnecessary and irrelevant bullshite.
You keep going Popoff. it matters not to me.
I'll burn you.You lie, and I'll burn you.And I can keep burning
You couldn't burn a rag doused in petrol. So you burn yourself out trying. Popoff
Peter Popoff Exposed as a Evangelical Fraud
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@SirAnonymous
Actually, if you had read the whole chapter, you would have noticed that David was anything but a "mummies boy."
And if you had read the whole of my post you would see that I agree with you. Here it is again for the ignorant and the blind>>>
FROM POST 1 above.
""For instance, one the one hand we are led to believe that a lowly shepherd boy the youngest of 7 killed a "giant". The "boy" it is said, while watching over his flock, whiled away his time playing sweet, beautiful soft music on a lyre, i.e. a bit of a mummies boy pansie,
when in reality, he was already a warrior if the scriptures are to be believed"".
Do you see that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. I have read that "the boy" David was already “amighty valiant man” and “a man of war” who was “prudent in matters” and had already "slain a bear and a lion" himself . my point is, - this is what we are led to believe UNLESS WE READ the scriptures FOR OURSELVES.
Yes I have read much about this god chosen King who sent a man away to war so he could slip into the mans wife. Horrid little fkr really, wasn't he?
14 In the morning David wrote a letter to Joab and sent it with Uriah. 15 In it he wrote, “Put Uriah out in front where the fighting is fiercest. Then withdraw from him so he will be struck down and die.”2 Samuel 11:14-15
Like father like chosen, I suppose.
He died of some kind of ancient STD, didn't he?
5 My wounds stink and are corrupt because of my foolishness.
6 I am troubled; I am bowed down greatly; I go mourning all the day long.
7 For my loins are filled with a loathsome disease: and there is no soundness in my flesh.
That'll teach the fkr , won't it.
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@ethang5
This isn't the only shortfall in this story.You showed no shortfall goober. ....David killed Goliath and Elhanan killed the brother of Goliath. Where's the shortfall?
2 Samuel 21:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
Ok. so your happy that the verse above ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is correct? The verse above is the exact same verse that I have posted in post one above, 2 Samuel 21:19 King James Version
Ok. I thought you would jump on that Popoff and I am so glad you did. So now you can explain this to those reading here>>
2 Samuel 21:19 English Standard Version (ESV)
19 And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite, struck down Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
In the above there isn't even a mention of a "brother of Goliath" . The exact verse - minus "the brother of" - can be found in other text which appear to agree on the above text for instance:
NIV 1984: "In another battle with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver’s rod."
and
NASB: "There was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam."
I suppose now that you are going to tell us all that it was simply a biblical error by the gospel writer ( without any evidence) or an error on behalf of the translator (without evidence). Or are you going to plumb for the - ' there were two giants named Goliath ' bullshit also without evidence.
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No. You just disagreed, you did not explain why the "him" refers to Lazarus.
Then if you cannot see it after even after it has been pointed out to you then I can now understand how easy it must have been for those preachers and teachers to indoctrinate you , Popoff.
Here for you Popoff, is the complete story. With highlights.
John 11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.
2 (It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.)
3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.
4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
5 Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus.
6 When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was.
7 Then after that saith he to his disciples, Let us go into Judaea again.
8 His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again?
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, >>>>>>Lazarus is dead.<<<<<<
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless>>>>>> let us go unto him.<<<<<
16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellow disciples,>>>>>> Let us also go, that we may die with him.<<<<<
17 Then when Jesus came, he found that he found that had lain in the grave four days.
18 Now Bethany was nigh unto Jerusalem, about fifteen furlongs off:
19 And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.
20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house.
21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23 Jesus saith unto her,Thy brother shall rise again.24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
28 And when she had so said, she went her way, and called Mary her sister secretly, saying, The Master is come, and calleth for thee.
29 As soon as she heard that, she arose quickly, and came unto him.
30 Now Jesus was not yet come into the town, but was in that place where Martha met him.
31 The Jews then which were with her in the house, and comforted her, when they saw Mary, that she rose up hastily and went out, followed her, saying, She goeth unto the grave to weep there.
32 Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled.
34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.
35 Jesus wept.
36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!
37 And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?
38 Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.
39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.
46 But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done.
47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.
54 Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews; but went thence unto a country near to the wilderness, into a city called Ephraim, and there continued with his disciples.
55 And the Jews' passover was nigh at hand: and many went out of the country up to Jerusalem before the passover, to purify themselves.
56 Then sought they for Jesus, and spake among themselves, as they stood in the temple, What think ye, that he will not come to the feast?
57 Now both the chief priests and the Pharisees had given a commandment, that, if any man knew where he were, he should shew it, that they might take him.
King James Version (KJV)
You keep denying it and disagreeing , and I will simply keep posting the facts. Popoff, You are not only making your self look ridiculous, but also in dire need or English reading education.
Peter Popoff Exposed as a Evangelical Fraud
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That is because you stupidly think "scripture" means bible.
No. And that is why I clearly separated the two by asking " which scripture". I knew, and have said that it wasn't in the bible. Your just too slow to keep up.
But non of this matters now Popoff. You failed. You didn't know the answer and instead of just saying 'I don't know' , you stretched this thread out with your pages of unnecessary and irrelevant bullshit just for the hell of it.
This thread is becoming nothing short of harrasment from you, now. YOU FAILED, get over it Popoff.
Peter Popoff Exposed as a Evangelical Fraud
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Who Killed The "giant" Goliath ?
1 Samuel 17:50 King James Version (KJV)
50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David.
2 Samuel 21:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.
I ask those interested to check these verses so to witness that I haven't made them up (as I am often accused by one fawning religious sycophant ) and that they are from the scripture.
This isn't the only shortfall in this story. For instance, one the one hand we are led to believe that a lowly shepherd boy the youngest of 7 killed a "giant". The "boy" it is said, while watching over his flock, whiled away his time playing sweet, beautiful soft music on a lyre, i.e. a bit of a mummies boy pansie, when in reality, he was already a warrior if the scriptures are to be believed.
Anyway, this story is slightly confusing and no doubt our biblical theist scholars will attempt to explain the question away by rewriting the pertinent verses if not the whole saga, and telling us all we got it all wrong and don't understand what we have been reading.
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@ethang5
That is correct.Then you lied when you claimed that I said nothing else.
Your getting more sillier by the post, Popoff.
You have proven to not know the answer to my honest and genuine question. But instead chose argument and conflict by posting pages of unnecessary and irrelevant bullshit..
It all boils down to one thing , Popoff, YOU COULDN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION.,. You eventually said that it was a scripture "lost to history" , as if you'd fkn know!!!!! You have no evidence for what you say, it is only an opinion, YOUR OPINION, which amounts to absolutely nothing even on your bullshit scale.
Your'e a fraud who knows absolute ZERO about the scriptures that you have been indoctrinated with when you was just a little Popoff.
You were so dumb, you thought Jesus had made a "false" claim.
I have seen no proof that says otherwise, especially from YOU Popoff. I had a warning for calling you stupid but you can refer to me as dumb, I have to wonder why that is, are you a secret mod?. But you keep going with your little unnecessary spat that you are continuing when there is absolutely no need for you to do so.. It won't change the fact that you have no answer to my question and the opinion you offered is nothing more than opinion, YOUR OWN baseless, unsubstantiated OPINION..
Peter Popoff Exposed as a Evangelical Fraud
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@EtrnlVw
Once again I fail to understand what point you are making...
I am not surprised. you are slow at recognizing your own contradictions.
and even if you have one at all,
I do have one. read slowly above . I have pointed out that in one sentence you say you have no church or pastor ""telling you how to live and what to do", I have shown above that this not to be the case, because in your next sentence you contradict yourself openly by telling us all that you "I got it all from Jesus and the Gospels". I have pointed out very clearly to you, that Jesus was in fact a Rabbi i.e. a pastor which means shepherd. You are just pretending its not there.
and now I'm wondering if you understood what I wrote.
Perfectly, thanks. . You say one one hand you have no pastor or church " telling me what to do or how to live". But contradict this by adding, "I got it all from Jesus and the Gospels". I have said and explained very clearly above that Jesus was a rabbi, a teacher, a pastor and a shepherd. The very same kind of person that YOU say that you don't have teaching you these things about how to live your life.
My point was that you don't need a version of Christianity
And I have said to you on other threads and now here that one doesn't need Christianity at all to live a clean , upstanding moralistic life. I have argued that Christianity and Christians, - as much as they like to believe they do, - do not have the monopoly on how one can live a life of values and morals, and live clean sinless lives.
you can go straight to the Gospels.
yes you have said this or similar three times now in various forms but failed to produce. Or have you forgotten this
@EtrnlVw wrote Post # 18 Actually, anyone arguing for or against the perfection or imperfection of the Bible are silly, and then missing the things that matter in the meantime, https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3384/does-the-scripture-actually-say-this-at-all-anywhere?And what would they - "the things that matter" be?
I am still waiting for a reply.
if you want to consider Jesus as my pastor that's perfect
It is you that considers Jesus as your pastor although you have stated that "you have no pastor". You told us this yourself when you said:
"I got it all from Jesus and the Gospels".
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You are now trying to tell us all here that this story is about those disciples wishing to "die" along with Jesus and not Lazarus . This is nothing short of complete denial and out right lies.Then show us how instead of simply shouting like a retard.
I already did. You are again pretending not to have seen it although I have posted the FKN story. here it is again
Here for you Popoff, is the complete story. With highlights.
John 11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.
2 (It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.)
3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.
4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
5 Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus.
6 When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was.
7 Then after that saith he to his disciples, Let us go into Judaea again.
8 His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again?
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.
16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellow disciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him.
17 Then when Jesus came, he found that he found that had lain in the grave four days.
18 Now Bethany was nigh unto Jerusalem, about fifteen furlongs off:
19 And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.
20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house.
21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23 Jesus saith unto her,Thy brother shall rise again.24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
28 And when she had so said, she went her way, and called Mary her sister secretly, saying, The Master is come, and calleth for thee.
29 As soon as she heard that, she arose quickly, and came unto him.
30 Now Jesus was not yet come into the town, but was in that place where Martha met him.
31 The Jews then which were with her in the house, and comforted her, when they saw Mary, that she rose up hastily and went out, followed her, saying, She goeth unto the grave to weep there.
32 Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled.
34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.
35 Jesus wept.
36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!
37 And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?
38 Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.
39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.
46 But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done.
47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.
54 Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews; but went thence unto a country near to the wilderness, into a city called Ephraim, and there continued with his disciples.
55 And the Jews' passover was nigh at hand: and many went out of the country up to Jerusalem before the passover, to purify themselves.
56 Then sought they for Jesus, and spake among themselves, as they stood in the temple, What think ye, that he will not come to the feast?
57 Now both the chief priests and the Pharisees had given a commandment, that, if any man knew where he were, he should shew it, that they might take him.
King James Version (KJV)
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@ethang5
You only posted the question.
That is correct. The WHOLE FKN purpose of this thread was to ask a question. And you couldn't answer it. You finally said " it was from a scripture lost to history". Yeh, as if you'd fkn know, Popoff. You are full of shite that no one is really interested in only another fawning religious sycophant like yourself.
I posted much more.
You did. Pages of unnecessary and irrelevant bullshit.
I wanted one answer , but you preferred confrontation and argument, one you didn't win because you couldn't tell me where I could find what I was looking for.
Stop lying.
No. That will be you, Popoff. It is all there for anyone who may be interested to see for themselves. I have nothing to lie about and nothing to lose simply by asking questions about religious matters, ones that I know that - especially YOU - cannot answer.
You are the fraud. my old sunshine as you have proven yourself to be time end time again.
Peter Popoff Exposed as a Evangelical Fraud
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@EtrnlVw
I didn't have a pastor or church telling me what to do or how to live I got it all from Jesus and the Gospels.
That will be Jesus then, who was rabbi and a Jew and the New Testament is supposedly full of HIS instructions and HIS sayings, on how to live.
The actual word pastor is derived from a Latin word meaning shepherd. Jesus then was also a Pastor as in - The lord is my shepherd etc etc. , but you don't have a shepherd or a pastor "telling you how to live and what to do", do you? You just listen to Jesus who is was a pastor / shepherd.
Crack on!
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You told me nothing at all but thought you'd TRY and be clever.My first post in this thread. Post #16
Yes I know. here it is again;
Post #16 YOUR FIRST POST "I only have one question. When Jesus says in John 7:38, "scripture", what is He referring to?"
^^^^^^^^^^ above that was your first post. You wasn't "telling me" anything. It was a question. So stop with your bullshite.
That is what I had to point out to you above at Post 57, when you carried on with your lies for absolutely no reason, FFS! Keep up Popoff.
We all now know you don't know . In fact it is highly debatable whether you have a clue as to what is going on in any of those biblical scriptures, never mind anything extra biblical. Oh well, deary me, there, there,never mind, eh , Popoff
Peter Popoff Exposed as a Evangelical Fraud
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I told you in my first post to you
Why are you now continuing to tell lies when there is no reason for you to do so?
THIS WAS YOU FIRST FKN POST, POPOFF >>>>>> POST 16
"I only have one question. When Jesus says in John 7:38, "scripture", what is He referring to?"
You told me nothing at all but thought you'd TRY and be clever. You are not clever, you are far from clever.
So you don't know was all you had to say. And now we know you don't.
I did say so. You stupidly claimed I was "lying" and putting words "in the mouth of Jesus."
You are only half right here Popoff. I have accused you of lying on this thread - as you do on all of the threads that you post on.
But I have not accused you of putting any words into anyone's mouth on this thread as you are prone to do on many threads when you have painted yourself into a corner.
Peter Popoff Exposed as a Evangelical Fraud
You are now simply posting to bury your own embarrassment, as you do on all your threads when caught out in hypocrisy, lying and contradiction.
Any way. Like I have said. You don't know.
PLEASE RED THIS CAREFULLY AND SLOWLY popoff!!!
It was absolutely delightful to have you admit that everything religiously "scriptural" is not necessarily in the bible.
It will be something I can use against you when - as you often do - deny anything introduced into an argument BY ME that is not in the bible, such as The Gospel of Thomas that clearly states that LAZARUS was alive and not dead when Jesus "raised" him.
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@3RU7AL
(A) I do believe that some, non-specific space-aliens (gods) MIGHT be discovered at some point in the future.I am convinced, by EVIDENCE, that there is likely some sort of (NON-SPECIFIC) "life" on other planets and or in other galaxies.I choose to say this.
Then you have made a choice, haven't you. And above you admit that you have chosen.
But you have also categorically stated in your first post >>>>>> "Belief is simply NOT a "choice".
...........................................................................................................................................................................................................
Now how about answering my questions
You can't simply "choose" to believe or disbelieve in anything.
Why can't you?
.
Belief is simply NOT a "choice".
Why do you say that.?
For example,I can't "choose" to believe in space-aliens.
Why can't you?
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Do you see those words in quotes Popoff? Those are quotes from Jesus himself. He is referencing some scripture. I want you to tell me WHAT FKN "scripture" is Jesus referencing .One that is not in our current Bible.
So you do not know what scripture that Jesus is referencing. Well done Popoff. You got there in the end after all your denials and blatant lies.
Jesus is referencing scripture that has been lost to history.
And that is all you needed to say in your first reply at your first post then wasn't it? But instead you thought turning the thread into 3 pages of lies, deceit and bullishit was the better option . The question is still there at post one, unedited and in its original state . You could have given your answer ( which is a fair point) way back then. But argument always seems to be your preferred and first response. And you have the fkn brass neck to say others here don't know how to debate.
...that is my original question as posed at post one of this thread.And I've told you over and over, not all scripture is in the Bible.
And I said AS FAR BACK AS POST # 21 it wasn't in the Old Or New Testaments and WELL BEFORE YOU have told me. But it hasn't stopped you making a fkn argument out of nothing has it, Popoff?
Peter Popoff Exposed as a Evangelical Fraud
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@3RU7AL
I have been pretty clear. Just read my responses and see how they and yourself contradict what you say.
Example, you say here;
(A) I do believe that some, non-specific space-aliens (gods) MIGHT be discovered at some point in the future.
and here you say:
(B) I don't believe in any particular space-aliens (gods).
yet here you say;
[C] Belief is simply NOT a "choice".
but you clearly show above at (A) that YOU are choosing to believe something and at (B) YOU are also choosing NOT to believe something. i.e. YOU have made a "choice" in both cases but at [C] you clearly state that belief is simply NOT a choice.
What you seem to not be understanding is that anyone can choose to believe anything they dam well like. But, do not get upset when your beliefs to go unchallenged.
Now how about you answering my questions above at post #11.
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@Vader
A recent Netflix series has mocked Jesus and made him about be a sinner, (gay, drug dealer, etc). This is absolutely horrendous ideology and depiction of Jesus Christ, yet if I made fun of Allah or Mohhamad, I would be attacked and banned for. The hypocrisy behind Liberals is maddening. All religions should be treated with respect or appropriated to same amount of mockery and Jesus is
You sound surprised. But you shouldn't be.
The left wing libtards belive it is open season when it comes to Christianity and Christians.. You will never be called an " christianophobe" when questioning and scrutinizing Christianity. Just look at the religion forum here.
I question and scrutinize Christianity more often than I do Islam at a rate of at least 5 to 1 and am called all kinds of names and have had all kinds of accusations leveled against me on all of the threads I have started concerning Islam. But Christianity doesn't seem a problem.
See this thread:
There are many here who are quick to label anyone criticizing Islam, the quran and muslims as islamophobic and racists bigots. But I have yet to be labeled an Christianophobic racist bigot with an irrational and uncontrollable fear or dread (which is the correct definition of a phobic person) when I criticise Christianity / Christians for believing much of the superstitious nonsense that they have been taught. And no mention of me spreading fear and \hatred.Or when I have criticised The New Testament for its half truths, false stories, its enigmatic and ambiguous verses and for calling it extremely flawed.I haven't been called a Christianophobia racist bigot when I have criticised the Old Testament when calling it a war book where mankind is controlled by a warmongering psychotic and schizophrenic jealous god and his human cohorts and also for its superstitious nonsense. Or have I been accused of spreading hatred and fear although I have been accused of some kind of being on some kind of "radicalisation" mission.
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@3RU7AL
You can't simply "choose" to believe or disbelieve in anything.
Why can't you?
I can't stop believing in air.
You can, but you would look pretty silly not to.
I can't stop believing in water.
You can, but you would look pretty silly not to.
I can't "choose" to believe in Santa Claus.
You can, but you would look pretty silly .
I can't "choose" to believe in unicorns.
You can, but you would look pretty silly .
Belief is simply NOT a "choice".
Why do you say that.?
For example,I can't "choose" to believe in space-aliens.
Why can't you?
I don't believe in any particular space-aliens (gods).
That is a choice.
I do believe that some, non-specific space-aliens (gods) MIGHT be discovered at some point in the future.
That too is a choice.
Do you not see how you have contradicted yourself multiple times ?
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@EtrnlVw
You come across as a very frustrated person, that could happen when you try and tango with material you can't handle.
You have been taking lessons in pretending not to see the question/s from ethang - Peter Popoff - 5, haven't you?
Here you go. Just in case you really did miss them.
At post one (1) above I asked:
...... did she bears really tear " forty two (42) children to pieces for simple boisterous behaviour? And because someone willed it with a curse and " in the name of the lord" to boot !!!!
How can anyone excuse this behaviour from a god that is supposed to love them? They were little children.
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@zedvictor4
It's what's loosely known as Chinese whispers.Or lost in translation.
So then it could have been people and not bears per sey who ripped these children apart?
For instance It could mean that it was Simone and Esther, Also Known As she "bears" (sows) because of their size and weight that tore apart the children?
Yes its all making sense now.
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Does "the scripture" actually say this at all,.... anywhere?No.
Do you see those words in quotes Popoff? Those are quotes from Jesus himself. He is referencing some scripture. I want you to tell me WHAT FKN "scripture" is Jesus referencing . You keep failing to do so. You have avoided the question again haven't you. LOOK >>>>>What scripture says this? Tell me what scripture states "out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.? that is my original question as posed at post one of this thread.
This elusive verse has baffled me for a long time.It cannot be a verse.
MORE FKN DENIAL AND LIES!!!! What the FK is this if it NOT a verse? POPOFF!!!!!!
John 7:38 King James Version has Jesus saying:
38 "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."
MY QUESTION IS >>>>>What scripture says this? >>>>>>"out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."
if you don't know then simply say so instead of making up things and telling lie after lie and pretending you haven't even seen my question.
Peter Popoff Exposed as a Evangelical Fraud
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You dodged. Post #6
Nope. WRONG AGAIN Popoff !!!!!!!!!
You are now trying to tell us all here that this story is about those disciples wishing to "die" along with Jesus and not Lazarus . This is nothing short of complete denial and out right lies. You do your church, religion and your god a massive disservice.
This is a pathetic lie that is easily debunked. Jesus is very much alive when when he decides eventually that Lazarus is "dead". The only "Dead" man that is mentioned in the WHOLE FKN story is Lazarus. The whole story is about Lazarus supposedly "dying" and Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead.
And YOU still haven't explained why these pathetic disciples would want to "die" in the first place, have you Popoff!!!?
Peter Popoff Exposed as a Evangelical Fraud
Here for you Popoff, is the complete story. With highlights.
John 11 King James Version (KJV)
3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.
4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
5 Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus.
6 When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was.
7 Then after that saith he to his disciples, Let us go into Judaea again.
8 His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again?
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.
16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellow disciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him.
17 Then when Jesus came, he found that he found that had lain in the grave four days.
18 Now Bethany was nigh unto Jerusalem, about fifteen furlongs off:
19 And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.
20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house.
21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23 Jesus saith unto her,Thy brother shall rise again.24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
28 And when she had so said, she went her way, and called Mary her sister secretly, saying, The Master is come, and calleth for thee.
29 As soon as she heard that, she arose quickly, and came unto him.
30 Now Jesus was not yet come into the town, but was in that place where Martha met him.
31 The Jews then which were with her in the house, and comforted her, when they saw Mary, that she rose up hastily and went out, followed her, saying, She goeth unto the grave to weep there.
32 Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled.
34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.
35 Jesus wept.
36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!
37 And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?
38 Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.
39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.
46 But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done.
47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.
54 Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews; but went thence unto a country near to the wilderness, into a city called Ephraim, and there continued with his disciples.
55 And the Jews' passover was nigh at hand: and many went out of the country up to Jerusalem before the passover, to purify themselves.
56 Then sought they for Jesus, and spake among themselves, as they stood in the temple, What think ye, that he will not come to the feast?
57 Now both the chief priests and the Pharisees had given a commandment, that, if any man knew where he were, he should shew it, that they might take him.
11 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.
2 (It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.)3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.
4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
5 Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus.
6 When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was.
7 Then after that saith he to his disciples, Let us go into Judaea again.
8 His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again?
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.
16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellow disciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him.
17 Then when Jesus came, he found that he found that had lain in the grave four days.
18 Now Bethany was nigh unto Jerusalem, about fifteen furlongs off:
19 And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.
20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house.
21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23 Jesus saith unto her,Thy brother shall rise again.24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
28 And when she had so said, she went her way, and called Mary her sister secretly, saying, The Master is come, and calleth for thee.
29 As soon as she heard that, she arose quickly, and came unto him.
30 Now Jesus was not yet come into the town, but was in that place where Martha met him.
31 The Jews then which were with her in the house, and comforted her, when they saw Mary, that she rose up hastily and went out, followed her, saying, She goeth unto the grave to weep there.
32 Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled.
34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.
35 Jesus wept.
36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!
37 And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?
38 Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.
39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.
46 But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done.
47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.
54 Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews; but went thence unto a country near to the wilderness, into a city called Ephraim, and there continued with his disciples.
55 And the Jews' passover was nigh at hand: and many went out of the country up to Jerusalem before the passover, to purify themselves.
56 Then sought they for Jesus, and spake among themselves, as they stood in the temple, What think ye, that he will not come to the feast?
57 Now both the chief priests and the Pharisees had given a commandment, that, if any man knew where he were, he should shew it, that they might take him.
King James Version (KJV)
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@zedvictor4
No children were harmed in the writing of this tale.
What about bears? It mentions nothing of the villagers arming themselves with spears and clubs and attempting to the rescue of their little children .
Matthew 19:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
It appears a lot changed between the Old covenant and the new covenant
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You posted your question Jethro.
Correct!!!! you are finally catching up!!! GOOD BOY!!!!! Peter Popoff. I did post a question didn't I? And I have had to post it quite a few time now haven't I, because you keep pretending not to have seen it, don't you? Popoff.
I keep answering you, but you keep trying to change your question.
You even now keep on insisting that you have answered the question/s but that is just a lie AGAIN .
Would you like it again just for good measure?
Here you are again. Lets us see if you can do any better the billionth time around NOW WE KNOW YOU CAN SEE THE QUESTION. I have highlighted in bold and underlined the questions so that they STAND OUT from the rest of the text., You cannot miss them.
from post #1 in this thread that is titled - Does "the scripture" actually say this at all,.... anywhere?
This elusive verse has baffled me for a long time. Why can I not find it ?
John 7:38 King James Version has Jesus saying:
38 "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."
" as the scripture has said"
Where do the scripture actually say " out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."?
[1]What scripture says this? [2] Is it from the Old Testament scripture or [3] from earlier in the New Testament by another one of the gospel writers?https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3384/does-the-scripture-actually-say-this-at-all-anywhere?
Do you see that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Popoff. There are three clear and distinct questions above that you have - up to now - been pretending you haven't seen and you have certainly not answered.
You don't have to answer question two (2) or Three(3) because that was the first place I looked and I can tell you that ; unless I have missed it, I can categorically say it won't be found in either of the books mentioned questions 1 or 2.
So Popoff ,that only leaves my initial question, doesn't it >>>>>> [1]What scripture says this? <<<<<<<
So off you pop, Popoff, let us have you address this puzzler once and for all.
Peter Popoff Exposed as a Evangelical Fraud
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@ethang5
That verse cannot be found anywhere. And you cannot find it either.Wasn't your question where in the bible could the verse be found?
No it wasn't and why didn't you bother to check before asking me what my question actually was and still is. You are pretending yet again not to have seen it. It is at post one (#1) as you well know. Is all you are doing is causing me to re-post my question because you pretending to not have seen it , but will complain that I have re-posted the question that you pretend not to have seen.
But being slow on the uptake, as you are obviously appearing to be, you are over looking the fact that while you pretend not to have seen the question, you some how know I have re posted it. How did you know it was a re post if you hadn't seen it before, Popoff?
POST # ONE that will be the first post of this thread that can be found here >>>> https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3384/does-the-scripture-actually-say-this-at-all-anywhere?
This is what I have actually asked.... and what you have continually pretended not to have seen and failed to answer , Popoff
"Where do the scripture actually say " out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."?
What scripture says this" ? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Do you see that Popoff?
Stop being stupid.
I had a warning about referring to you as stupid.
I keep answering you, but you keep trying to change your question.
Nope the question is there and hasn't gone anywhere and is still the same fkn question- that you haven't answered.https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3384/does-the-scripture-actually-say-this-at-all-anywhere?
And it must appear strange to anyone reading here that you say that considering above you have just to asked me what the question is at post 40 above;
--> @ethang5 Wasn't your question where in the bible could the verse be found?
Peter Popoff Exposed as a Evangelical Fraud
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Yes or no will be fine.
No.
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@n8nrgmi
For the purposes of this discussion, we will define a miracle as an event which occurs outside of the natural order and cannot be repeated or explained by the scientific process.
Most of the so called "miracles" in the New Testament can be explained very simply. It is just that the devout Christians cannot accept them for what they are.
"Water into Wine" for instance is easily explained once it is pointed out that this was simply a raising to a higher degree in a movement or cult. In Jesus' case it was an initiation to a higher degree in the movement of Essenes. As was " raising the dead". Simply put, anyone outside of Jesus' circle were referred to as dead or "The Dead". Being initiated - or raised - into his circle or movement one becomes among "The living". When one understands these things it then explains those enigmatic and ambiguous verses such as " let the dead bury the dead" Mat 8:22. And " Let us also go, that we may die with him" John 11:16.
But the fawning sycophantic believer cannot accept this reasoning and will invent all kinds of extreme convoluted shite to explain away what is easily explainable, as shown above. I mean, how the fk can a dead person bury a dead person? Why would these men or at least one suggest that they all die voluntarily? These are the truths that the fawning sycophantic believers simply cannot face. Jesus was a man, not a god and not a worker of miracles
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....did she bears really tear " forty two (42) children to pieces for simple boisterous behaviour? And because someone willed it with a curse and " in the name of the lord" to boot !!!!
2 Kings 2:23-24 King James Version (KJV)
23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
How can anyone excuse this behaviour from a god that is supposed to love them? They were little children.
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Was it common knowledge to his audience.Of course. But that is not what you started out saying is it?
And your evidence that it was common knowledge to his audience comes from where? And if this be the case, why is it that you are just filibustering for the sake of saying something instead of just simply answering my question?
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I just don't believe it in the fawning sycophantic manner in which you do. Because thankfully, I am not religious.Again here we go, assertions. Which is why I told you to ask!!
Yes, here we do go again. And I have said twice now, that the thread - my thread - is about my question, not you or yours.
I have said here many times that I believe that there is an underlying story in the scriptures that the gospellers are desperately trying to hide.What are they hiding, I remember your claim but you never said what they are hiding lol....
AGAIN! Are you fkn blind!!!? The thread - my thread - is about my question and not your question or your beliefs . FFS learn to read. Also learn to use the search engine. I have made threads on what I believe is going on in these scriptures. Now then,, off you trot, you have a lot to cover and catch up on if you are really interested in what I believe. Mean while either answer the question at post one or leave the thread.
how can you believe someone is hiding something when you can't say what they are hiding?
AGAIN! This thread is not about your questions or your beliefs and opinions. And you call me nuts.? FFS get a grip lad.
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I have indicated to you that I do not know.I know you don't know. You're ignorant, remember?
So why ask me to answer a question that I have asked. that I do not know. If you want it in plain English , I will clearly state that I do not know, popoff. The WHOLE REASON for this thread is - BECAUSE I DO NOT KNOW -..
This is why I repeat in bold, underlined and CAPITALS.
You repeat because your argument is fakery ...
No. And I have already explained why to you but you must have missed that too again. So here you are again.
If anyone pretends not to see replies it is you. You pretend not to even see my replies often and especially when they have backed you into a corner. You are simply incapable of debate yet accuse others of being incapable of debate. You accuse others of telling lies, when it is you who often makes things up once you have painted yourself into a corner with lies of your own. This is why I repeat in bold, underlined and CAPITALS.
But still you continue to pretend not to have seen my replies and answers and further questions that have arisen from your pure unadulterated BULLSHITE. As I have proven above.
Now answer the question...
I've answered it twice now.
No you haven't stop lying. That verse cannot be found anywhere . And you cannot find it either. This is why YOU have failed to answer the question unless you missed it AGAIN.
I told you, the bible doesn't contain all the scripture there is.
So which scripture was Jesus referring to when he says:
John 7:38 "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."
You haven't answered that question. BECAUSE YOU SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW. So FFS stop with your bullshit lies.
I have asked you FOUR times now and have asked ""What scripture says this?"" but you keep ignoring it and saying you have answered. Stop lying
Maybe you should ask Mike if he can make font color an option. Bolding, caps, and underlining isn't working for you. Wouldn't your lying spam be spectacular in say, red or orange?
it wouldn't be a bad idea. I could just copy and paste your shite in red to indicate your lies.
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