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@3RU7AL
If I told you I knew the secret to the meaning of life and ultimate truth, but I refused to tell you exactly what it was, WOULD YOU BELIEVE ME?
No. And neither would a devout Christian. The devout Christian would probably accuse you of being a godless pagan without morals but without any single shred of evidence to support their accusation and ask you to prove your ungodly outrageous claim.
But they will, without question, believe in god and the bible being the word of god without a single shred of evidence to support their own outrageous beliefs.
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@ethang5
Was it common knowledge to his audience.Of course. But that is not what you started out saying is it?
And your evidence that it was common knowledge as to his audience comes from where? And if this be the case, why is it that you are just filibustering for the sake of saying something instead of just simply answering my question?
If the bible did not exist when Jesus said that, why are you searching the bible for it? Does that not strike you as stupid?This is like searching a history book written in 1720 looking for a country that came into existence in 1960. Dumb.
You must have missed these .
I actually state very clearly at post ONE!!!!
"What scripture says this? Is it from the Old Testament scripture? or from earlier in the New Testament by another one of the gospel writers"?
And again at post #21 I clearly state :
"The words "out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." are certainly not from OT and I have not found this verse in any extra biblical material that I have read in over 40 years".
Maybe you missed that first time around or just ignored it, Popoff.
Pretend he doesn't see the answer, post the verse in bold again, and repeat his silly conclusion.
And with good reason, Popoff. If anyone pretends not to see replies it is you. You pretend not to even see my replies often and especially when they have backed you into a corner. You are simply incapable of debate yet accuse others of being incapable of debate. You accuse others of telling lies, when it is you who often makes things up once you have painted yourself into a corner with lies of your own. This is why I repeat in bold, underlined and CAPITALS.
But still you continue to pretend not to have seen my replies and answers and further questions that have arisen from your pure unadulterated BULLSHITE. As I have proven above.
Now answer the question/s Popoff or leave the thread.
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@ethang5
I only have one question.When Jesus says in John 7:38, "scripture", what is He referring to?You tell me Popoff.Again, you can't answer a question about your own post. Is it ignorance or deception?
I have indicated to you that I do not know. If you want it in plain English , I will clearly state that I do not know, popoff. The WHOLE REASON for this thread is - BECAUSE I DO NOT KNOW -.
That is why I asked you to tell me. LOOK>>>>
Post # 21 above
When Jesus says in John 7:38, "scripture", what is He referring to?You tell me Popoff.When Jesus said these words did those he was directing them towards understand which " scripture" he was referring to? Was it common knowledge to his audience.The words "out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." are certainly not from OT and I have not found this verse in any extra biblical material that I have read in over 40 years.So, off you pop, Popoff.
So Popoff, are you going to answer my questions instead of posting your own in reply . Or is it a case that yet again you have no possible answer.
Was it common knowledge to his audience.Of course. But that is not what you started out saying is it?
And your evidence for this is what exactly. And why can you not answer the question then? , Popoff?
Do you wish to move the goal posts again?
I am not moving anything. My question still stands clear, there at post ONE (1) above; UNANSWERED!!!!!. It is only your evasive and pathetic replies that raises more questions.
And please stop your deceitful habit of laying quotes at my door that I haven't said, Popoff, this is clear doctoring of posts and I am sure it is against the rules.
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@ethang5
I only have one question.When Jesus says in John 7:38, "scripture", what is He referring to?
You tell me Popoff.
When Jesus said these words did those he was directing them towards understand which " scripture" he was referring to? Was it common knowledge to his audience.
The words "out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." are certainly not from OT and I have not found this verse in any extra biblical material that I have read in over 40 years.
So, off you pop, Popoff.
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@EtrnlVw
If it does then no one should be reading it just to find contradictions and absurdities like Steve.
I read the scriptures/bible just as I would any other ancient history. I believe all the characters existed and I believe all the events including the so called miracles. I just don't believe it in the fawning sycophantic manner in which you do. Because thankfully, I am not religious.
I have said here many times that I believe that there is an underlying story in the scriptures that the gospellers are desperately trying to hide.
These gospel writers, in trying to hide so much , reveal much more than they hide. And this is why that there are hundreds of contradictions in these works. And I will keep highlighting them even if its just to watch you wave them away as not important or struggle to explain them.
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@ludofl3x
I'm not saying there's not good moral lessons in the bible.
I agree. But the thing about the religious is that they believe they have the monopoly on morals and that the irreligious cannot be moral, possess morals or are capable of being of good, living clean or even sinless lives simply because they do not believe in god, Jesus or the words bible.
I'm saying the bible is far from the only source for moral lessons. I'd rather Aesop's Fables, they're more direct and feature less mass beheadings and daughters fucking their dads. And no one beats each other up over believing they're true, we all agree they're false but worthy.
10/10
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@EtrnlVw
Actually, anyone arguing for or against the perfection or imperfection of the Bible are silly, and then missing the things that matter in the meantime,
And what would they - "the things that matter" be?
There are things that make sense and there are also imperfections and things that may not make much sense because it was put together over a long period of time by imperfect humans.
Well I have recently been informed that these gospels are the inspired work of god himself. At least we appear to agree that they certainly are not.
.....but who cares
Another wave of the hand and away the problem goes. Forever trying to play down these "imperfections" aren't you .
To me yet again, this imperfection or error simply is irrelevant......
Yes, I have noticed on many occasions when Christians are stumped and flummoxed for an answer to an enigmatic biblical verse, they will simply wave it away as minutia, irrelevant and not even important to the Christian story.
Jesus obviously got living water from the OT and equated his mission to that analogy.Jer 2:13"For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters"
And it obviously don't read or sound like Jesus's actual saying:
John 7:38 King James Version has Jesus saying:
38 "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."
It appears to me that you are desperately trying to make the "analogy" on behalf of the Christ. Putting words into the mouths of biblical characters is yet another ploy the Christian will often use when desperate for a answer.
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@ethang5
I have had a warning for doing this over a year ago.I remember. You and a few others tried to manipulate the mods into banning others.
Glad you do. But it had nothing to do with "manipulating mods". It had everything to do with those who were deliberately derailing threads just for the hell of it.
If you don't want negative consequences, don't do negative things.
Like asking questions you simply cannot answer. Yes I can see why YOU would believe that to be "negative".
Stalking is a bad, unreasonable thing to do.
Stalking? I can go to any thread I believe I have some input or where I see blatant hypocrisy. Such as you complaining and ridiculing someone for not answering SOMEONE ELSE's QUESTION!!!! a fault which you yourself fail to do more often than not. SEE POST 11 above
You can keep lying until you're blue in the face
(A) Yes, yet another poor excuse of yours that you accuse others once you have painted yourself into a theological corner and cannot come up with a answer to a question you simply are not capable of explaining away with facts. But you are not the first to accuse me of doing exactly what you do when in desperation.
I don't care what you say, I only care that up on the board, in clear black and white, your own posts call you a liar, and my posts show you as a fake.
See (A) above.
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It appears that the claim by Jesus appears to be false.
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@ethang5
I just got rid of a 2nd stalker, let's hope I don't have to work on you too.
Stop threatening me. It is against the rules to threaten anyone with reporting to moderators. I have had a warning for doing this over a year ago.
You fail at every turn to answer questions that you are not ready for. Don't blame me sunshine. Blame your preachers and teachers. It is they who have let you down, boy.
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@EtrnlVw
P.S you may actually want to ask me about my beliefs before you assume what they are.
I responded to what yo wrote and it appears to me that you appear to believe that there are somethings "useful and worthwhile" to be gleaned. I have asked you to point them out but you have come up the an excuse not to do that.
P.S you may actually want to ask me about my beliefs before you assume what they are.
Why should I ask you about your beliefs? The topic of this thread - my thread- is about a question that all Christians should be asking. What you believe is irrelevant to the question or this thread. You could always start your own thread telling us all about your beliefs and why you believe what it is you believe. I would gladly engage you.
Post 27 More importantly, who the heck reads a book to not only ignore anything useful and worthwhile but to make up supposed contradictions lol?? now that is something else. When I realized he's just reading the book only to find mistakes his topics became meaningless. I would be more impressed if people were to overlook imperfection to find the underlying objective of the accounts, then deal with them or ask questions. The shallowness of religious forum atheists is something to scratch the noggin about.
from the same post:
Post 27 I would be more impressed if people were to overlook imperfection......
But I do acknowledge that you do appear to believe that there are what you describe as "imperfections" in these scriptures.
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@ethang5
How will you give money to Jesus?Notice, our genius didn't answer you.
Says he who has perfected the art of the non answer.
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@Imabench
Should Ireland and Scotland have votes to secede from the UK?
The sooner the better. These two countries have been sponging off the English for centuries.
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Strange that a part of Jesus' message is to give to the poor when on the other hand the gospels talk of armageddon , the end of the world and the end times. I mean, what is the point of giving everything away to the "poor" when there will be nowhere for the poor to spend what you have given them.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Jehovah witnesses are Christians.
And yet they "witnessed" nothing at all.
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This elusive verse has baffled me for a long time. Why can I not find it ?
John 7:38 King James Version has Jesus saying:
" as the scripture has said"
Where do the scripture actually say " out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."?
What scripture says this? Is it from the Old Testament scripture or from earlier in the New Testament by another one of the gospel writers?
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You have been answered.
Nope. Stop telling fkn lies, Hydrick!!
You don't have an answer. And well understandable too. I haven't yet met a theologian or a full blown devout Christian who has ever been able to answer this question .
START A THREAD showing your proof of how YOU KNOW the scriptures were inspired by god? It should be a walk in the park for you seeing your so good at making shite up as you go.
James Randi exposes Hydrick
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All of a sudden, you aren't interested in your lame contradiction lies anymore?
What contradiction!!!!??
The theme of this particular topic is the question as to why not a single one of the disciples didn't cast out Satan when he had "entered Judas". although they had been gifted with the powers to cast out demons? You first reply was to tell us that "no one could see Satan had entered Judas" which raised yet another embarrassing question of, HOW the fk didn't anyone know he was even the room never mind lodging in the body of a fellow disciple?
You then try to wave this away by telling us that "the gospels are god inspired" which doesn't go anywhere near answering the question.
I can only assume that you either didn't understand the question or you missed it altogether. So I will simplify the question for you.
We know from these scripture that Jesus had given his disciples the gift of casting out demons.
Luke 9 New Living Translation (NLT)https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+9&version=NLTJesus Sends Out the Twelve Disciples
9 When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases,
So this begs the most important question all Christians should ask:
Why didn't any single one of these newly gift disciples cast out Satan from the the traitorous Judas when they had sitting next to him all night?
Right, lets us see how you get on with that now that I have simplyfide it for you, Hydrick!!
START A THREAD showing your proof of how YOU KNOW the scriptures were inspired by god? It should be a walk in the park for you seeing your so good at making shite up as you go.
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@ethang5
HERE>>>>>>>>> Why didn't any single one of these newly gift disciples cast out Satan from the the traitorous Judas when they had sitting next to him all night?The bible is inspired by God.
And that is your answer is it? I am amazed at how just five words can amount to biggest mound of steaming bull shite that I have ever read..
"Inspired by god", Prove it. Prove it with FACTUAL EVIDENCE, THEN, Hydrick !!!!!
The bible is inspired by God.
Stop telling lies, Hydrick!! You paint yourself into a tight corner and then try to escape by making things up on the hoof,... i.e. TELLING LIES!!!!
That the bible is the inspired word of God
You are attempting to answer this embarrassing question by inventing more stories and telling more lies.
Re-asking a dumb question that has already been answered......
More lies!!!!Hydrick You have not answered this very difficult and embarrassing question because you lack the intelligence to do so. Maybe if you had scrutinsed these scriptures a little closer when you were being groomed and indoctrinated into Christianity you may now have a plausible - but doubtful - response. As it is, you are just talking crap and digging a bigger hole for yourself and your religion. You have no evidence to support your replies.
START A THREAD showing your proof of how YOU KNOW the scriptures were inspired by god? It should be a walk in the park for you seeing your so good at making shite up as you go.
you are a fake. Smoke and mirrors is all you have. Go lick your wounds,
Your insistence in accusing me of doing EXACTLY what it is that YOU are doing is pointless,Hydrick I have no wounds to lick, Hydrick. I have absolutely nothing to lose by posing questions that you repeatedly fail to answer . And every time you fail, you prove my case that these scriptures are a ancient classical mess of jumbled half stories, ambiguous statements, enigmatic verses and out right lies.
James Randi exposes Hydrick
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@ethang5
Satan is not visible in the people he possesses or oppresses
Then how the fk did anyone know that Satan had had possessed Judas in the first place?
And how were the gospel writers able to write about the possession of Judas if Satan wasn't even visible and showed no signs at all that he had possessed Judas?
This is what happens all the time with you devout Christians. You paint yourself into a tight corner and then try to escape by making things up on the hoof, inventing excuses and telling out right lies and then expect your listener or reader to accept the first piece of shite that comes spewing from you lying mouth in so digging your holy hole even deeper You are a disgrace to your religion and your god!
In the main time, come up with another clunker I can debunk so you can do your obtuse song and dance again.
You haven't debunked anything. You must keep missing the main question of the whole thread, Hydrick.
James Randi exposes Hydrick
HERE>>>>>>>>> Why didn't any single one of these newly gift disciples cast out Satan from the the traitorous Judas when they had sitting next to him all night?
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@ethang5
You really are fool of excuses and outright crap. You haven't explained this explainable enigma because you are incapable. You do not posses the theological mental capacity to deal with is so accuse me of posting verses that are not even in the bible when any reader here - other than you - can prove for themselves that they are.
You consistently come across as one of those Psychic cringe failures that James Randi used to debunk with no effort. You are nothing but a snake oil sales man who lies and cheats and plays the numbers game in the belief & knowledge that there has to be one sucker in the audience of a few hundred who will believe your lies and re writing of these scriptures.
James Randi exposes Hydrick
Just like Hydrick, You have been shown to be pathetic and desperate. So much so that you have to lie, re write and put words into the mouths of these biblical characters that they didn't say.
So again. Why didn't any single one of these newly gift disciples cast out Satan from the the traitorous Judas when sitting next to him all fkn night.
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@3RU7AL
What practical, "objective" and universal, non-context-sensitive lesson can I glean from this STORY?That the god of Israel, by his own admission, is a jealous, vengeful god of war that will not tolerate any disobedience or lip, under any circumstances.Can't god do its own killing? Why would Moses need to command people to kill their neighbors?
Well by all accounts he can and has done. But for some reason when it comes to full scale war he gets his minions to do the slaughter and get killed themselves on his behalf. A minion, doncha know is a follower or underling of a powerful person, especially a servile or unimportant one. Yes, these insignificant underlings were expendable, that is to say of relatively little significance, and therefore able to be abandoned or destroyed. But he loved them, doncha know.
Also, what practical, "objective" and universal, non-context-sensitive lesson can I glean from this STORY?
Already answered above. But here you are again: you can glean, that, the god of Israel, by his own admission, is a jealous, vengeful god of war that will not tolerate any disobedience or lip, under any circumstances. The "objective" of the god of the OT in question was slavery and servitude. Nothing more nothing less.
Can we just throw out the entire "Old Testament" and even most of the "New Testament" and just write, "love your neighbor" on the back of a napkin?
Many have and probably millions have discarded the OT and simply don't believe the NT so have discarded that too.. The thing is with the bible is that it is nothing more than a jumbled up book of ancient history. The Old Testament - after the creation story, is simply book of war, violence, carnage, laws and dictates. The New Testament's over - all message appears, on the surface to be about loving your neighbor and turning the other cheek, give away your possessions etc, yet there are clear verses in these scripture that indicate quite the opposite. The underlying story is about, and to do with politics and whose turn in was to reign, rightfully, over the Jews and become king of the Jews and Jerusalem .<<<<, Notice King of the Jews NOT Christians.
and just write, "love your neighbor" on the back of a napkin?
We could, but does it have to be written at all, on anything , anywhere? Christians seem to believe that they have the monopoly on morals, orderly conduct and all round good and sinless behavior and for some reason they believe that anyone who doesn't believe in god, Jesus or the bible simply cannot posses morals and are incapable of conducting themselves in a orderly and sinless peaceful manner. Yes, 3RU7AL some Christians can be very high and mighty bastards when it comes to who has the moral high ground.
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@3RU7AL
It sounds a lot like, SHOOT THE PROTESTERS.
Indeed. Those who didn't conform to the new rules were cut down and slaughtered, but god loved them, doncha know.
But notice; they didn't even know what the new rules /laws were until Moses had came down the fkn mountain. Yes, these poor fkrs were supposed to be psychic too.
What practical, "objective" and universal, non-context-sensitive lesson can I glean from this STORY?
That the god of Israel, by his own admission, is a jealous, vengeful god of war that will not tolerate any disobedience or lip, under any circumstances.
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@3RU7AL
Exodus 32:27And he said unto them, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
Yes this was because they didn't like the god of Israel. They were afraid of him, and with good reason, if you ask me, he was a vicious jealous bastard narcissistic psychopath.
No, these guys wanted to go back to Egypt and continue to worship the Egyptian pantheon of Gods. They were sick of Moses laying down the fkn law and starving them in the desert. You will notice, it was a bull that they made of gold representing the Apis the divine bull of the Egyptians a manifestation of the god Ptah.
2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.
3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.
4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the Lord.
6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.
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Here is a book that has changed human history.
I agree. What's you point.
It is the most printed, the most studied, the most quoted, and the most cherished.
Except by you and your cretinous preachers and teachers. It is a shame you don't try studying it a bit closer.
But Zed the great wizard [Stephen] says it makes no sense.
And that is true , on the face of it it makes no sense at all on many levels, proven by the fact that people just like you have to lie your way out of tight corners and re write whole verses when confronted with the insurmountable contradictions and anomalies that the bible contains and as thousands of biblical scholars profess. Do not blame me for the failure of your cretinous preachers and teachers.
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Your stupidity is clear.You say Thomas is referring to Lazarus but can't say why. You just want it accepted though your interpretation makes no sense.
NO.
I am saying the story is about the death and resurrection of Lazarus by Jesus .Learn to fkn read, stupid
Thomas, for reasons known only to himself, decides it would be a good idea to go back to Bethany with Jesus and where Lazarus supposedly lays dead in a tomb and had been so for four days.
And he says this:
16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellowdisciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+11%3A1-+16&version=KJV
It goes on to say;-
18 Now Bethany was nigh unto Jerusalem, about fifteen furlongs off:
19 And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.
20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house.
So as much as you attempt to rewrite this bullshite story of a dead man being "risen" from the dead via a supposed "miracle", YOU still do not explain what the words "Let us also go, that we may die with him. " spoken by Thomas actual mean..
And the reason you cannot do this is because you do not understand the story at all. Your biblical teachers didn't know either and if they did , they kept it from you sunshine.
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.for example, the passage of the last supper says clearly why no one questioned why Judas left,No it doesn't...Jhn 13:26 - Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the sonof Simon.
It also says - contradictory - 28 Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him.
BUT AGAIN!! this does not explain why Judas wasn't stopped. Why didn't these disciples not stop Judas betraying Jesus and why did they not simply cast out this Satan.
Again your argument fails.
The disciples didn't understand a thing as to what was going on, you idiot.Of course not genius, that's why they didn't stop Judas.
But you have said they did know above that they did know, silly little billy.
LOOK by your own fkn hand>>>>> John 13:24-27 King James Version (KJV)
24 Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake.
25 He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?
>>>>>>>> 26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. <<<<<<<<<
27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
So at least one person apart from Jesus did know, why wasn't he stopped and why didn't the gifted disciples cast out the Satan that had - by all accounts - " entered Judas"? They had been sitting right next to him all fkn night sharing supper and wine and bread.
Why post fake verses?
Yes you keep saying this simply because you have nowhere to go with this argument. You simply cannot explain why the disciples FAILED to notice a Satan when it was sitting next to them and also FAILED to cast Satan out considering that they had been endowed with the gift to do so.
Here are those verses AGAIN , anyone can read them for themselves.
Luke 9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+9&version=KJV
9 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+9&version=KJV
Luke 10:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+10%3A17&version=KJV
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+10%3A17&version=KJV
Luke 22:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+22%3A3&version=KJV
John 13:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+13%3A27&version=KJV
They are not fake verses, that is, unless you are now saying that the verses above are not the words in the bible. Are you saying that those verses above are not in the bible/ yes or no will do, Jethro.
I was trained for trolls like you.
Well if that is the case you are as badly trained in biblical studies as you are anything else. Asking questions is not trolling. It just pisses YOU off because you cannot explain my questions away and YOU, like others here, do not like these anomalies, contradictions and half stories being highlighted for others to read.
You consistently come across as one of those Psychic cringe failures that James Randi used to debunk with no effort. You are nothing but a snake oil sales man who lies and cheats and plays the numbers game in the belief & knowledge that there has to be one sucker in the audience of a few hundred who will believe your lies and re writing of these scriptures.
James Randi exposes Hydrick
Just like Hydrick, You have been shown to be pathetic and desperate. So much so that you have to lie, re write and put words into the mouths of these biblical characters that they didn't say.
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@bmdrocks21
Are you saying that the religion of peace has struck.... again again?
No. I am saying that a white house official is saying. I have no reason at this time to doubt him/her
"White House official says......".
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@dustryder
Jesus is the god of Christians. Allah is the god of Muslims. this is a plain fact.Jesus is the son of god no?
According to Christian believers, he is. But there are many biblical characters that are called "son or sons of god". It is more of a title than it is a fact. To me Jesus was just another - very human - contender for the Jewish throne Jerusalem.
Or is this that idea that jesus is both the son of god and is god himself?
I wouldn't know. But it is probably more an idea than it will ever be a fact. What's your point?
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@ethang5
Thomas is referring to Jesus, Jethro, not Lazarus
More lies. And even more attempts to rewrite the scripture and put words into the mouths of the players in the weird story. The whole story is about the "death" of LAZARUS, and the "raising" of Lazarus as any scholar and infant school child can tell you.
The whole CHAPTER is there and it is made clear. The message came that Lazarus " is sick", while Jesus was lolling around the Jordan. Jesus seems to be in no hurry to go to the aid of his sick friend and "stayed where he was two more days".. YET! Jesus for some reason says that Lazarus is "only sleeping" but then changes his mind:
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Like you ethang, Jesus cannot seem to make up his fkn mind up, as to whether or not LAZARUS is asleep or dead.
The NIV version of this problematic story makes it more that clear as to who and what this story is about. They even title it;
John 11 New International Version (NIV)
The Death of Lazarus
So away with your bullshite excuses just for once and explain why these two disciples wanted to die.
16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellow disciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him.
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Investigation shows Pensacola shooting 'appears to be a terrorist attack,' White House official says.
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.for example, the passage of the last supper says clearly why no one questioned why Judas left,
No it doesn't, if anything it proves my point because they didn't understand a thing as tong on, you idiot. I am asking WHY no one stopped him, and why no one drove out the Satan that had "entered him".
"why didn't any of the disciples question Judas leaving?"
But still no one questioned where or why he was leaving on such an important occasion. WHY?? Why didn't they question him. They didn't know the meaning behind what Jesus had said when he said ; "That thou doest, do quickly".
READ HERE>>>>> 28 Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him.
And no man at the table recognised Satan either , did they you buffoon.
And AGAIN, you have failed to explain why the disciples , after being granted the powers to cast out demons, did they not cast out Satan. Satan had entered Judas well before the last supper and they had been sitting at the same fk table as him fk knows how long.
Why post fake verses?
I haven't. But you keep insisting this while ignoring the fact that I have posted those easily proven verses that you now are saying are fake, but they are from your bible and you deny this. SO, here they are AGAIN for anyone to check and confirm with links
Luke 9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+9&version=KJV
9 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+9&version=KJV
Luke 10:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+10%3A17&version=KJV
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+10%3A17&version=KJV
Luke 22:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+22%3A3&version=KJV
John 13:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+13%3A27&version=KJV
Your a fool and a failure of the first caliber. I keep telling you. I have nothing to lie about. Is all I have are questions that you cannot fkn answer.
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Thomas is referring to Jesus, Jethro, not Lazarus
More lies. And even more attempts to rewrite the scripture and put words into the mouths of the players in the weird story. The whole story is about the "death" of LAZARUS, and the "raising" of Lazarus as any scholar and infant school child can tell you.
The whole CHAPTER is there and it is made clear. The message came that Lazarus " is sick", while Jesus was lolling around the Jordan. Jesus seems to be in no hurry to go to the aid of his sick friend and "stayed where he was two more days".. YET! Jesus for some reason says that Lazarus is "only sleeping" but then changes his mind:
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Like you ethang, Jesus cannot seem to make up his fkn mind up, as to whether or not LAZARUS is asleep or dead.
The NIV version of this problematic story makes it more that clear as to who and what this story is about. They even title it;
John 11 New International Version (NIV)
The Death of Lazarus
So away with your bullshite excuses just for once and explain why these two disciples wanted to die.
16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellow disciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him.
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@ethang5
Hey Jethro, my answer is in post #10. Dodge it till you're blue in the face, it will remain there calling you a fake.
So you keep saying. And I haven't dodged anything, what is there for me to dodge?
This is your post ten :
@ethang5 wrote Right now there are 4 threads you abandoned when your fakery was challenged.Your idea of "contradiction" seems to be that people or God didn't do what you wanted them to do.You aren't above lying and posting fake verses. And you never address rebuttals, instead, you simply keep posting the verses you think are problematic as if simply posting them proves you correct.Finally, you are ignorant of scripture. You do not know even obvious things like, for example, the passage of the last supper says clearly why no one questioned why Judas left, either you have never read the passage, or you are a blatant liar, thinking no one will read the passage and see you're lying.You are a fake. A fraud. No one needs to waste much time on you.
Now tell me stupid, what is there for me to dodge. I have asked questions, you haven't answered them. Calling me fake and falsely accusing me of posting fake verses does not solve this extremely problematic story of Judas and the failure of the disciples to cast out the satan. does it you fool?
Addressing you is not a waste of time
Make you mind up you contradictory buffoon!!!!!: You always fail to defend your corner ALWAYS!!!
At post #10 where you tell me.
No one needs to waste much time on you.
at post # 20 you tell me again:
I won't waste time with you.
You are nothing less than a joke.
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Of the many strange and anomalous verses and statements written in the New Testament scriptures, John 11:16 has to belong in the top 10 of mysterious verses.
John 11:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellow disciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him.
The "him" which "Thomas, which is called Didymus" is referring to is a supposedly very "dead" Lazarus.
And before the usual protests and false accusations of "writing out of context"; here is the full text containing that enigmatic verse.
John 11:1-16 King James Version (KJV)
11 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.
2 (It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.)
3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.
4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
5 Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus.
6 When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was.
7 Then after that saith he to his disciples, Let us go into Judaea again.
8 His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again?
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.
16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellowdisciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+11%3A1-+16&version=KJV
The story then continues with the "raising" of Lazarus. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+11%3A1-+45&version=KJV
Christianity to my mind is all about life, giving life, sparing life, love of life, life everlasting and life after death . Jesus himself speaks only of life and living:
John 11: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. And indeed the very idea and purpose of Jesus "raising" the dead Lazarus, was to bring him back to life.
SO, The question of course has to be why would two fit and healthy people wish to "die" along with the supposedly very dead Lazarus!? Who it is said, had been dead, for "four days"!!!! (yes I know) .
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@ethang5
But when he claims to quote the bible, double check the quote. Stephen's typing fingers have been known to be a little oily.
So now then, you are even now denying that these verses below that I have also quoted at post one, my opening post of this thread which I have also re posted for you at post #34 above because you keep missing it, are even from the bible? How incredulous of you.
Luke 9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+9&version=KJV
Luke 10:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+10%3A17&version=KJV
9 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+9&version=KJV
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+10%3A17&version=KJV
Luke 22:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+22%3A3&version=KJVJohn 13:27 King James Version (KJV)
27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+13%3A27&version=KJVMy word, you really are desperate, aren't you? You are forgetting ONE simple fact. I have no reason to, tell lies. I simply highlight a biblical contradiction, an anomalous statement, an ambiguous statement or a biblical half story and then leave it up to you so called experts to explain them away... Which you never do and cannot do. I am still waiting - over a year now - for you to explain away this little problem that is the topic of this thread. and you have done everything to avoid it.
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@EtrnlVw
More importantly, who the heck reads a book to not only ignore anything useful and worthwhilePoint me to something in the New Testament that you believe is useful and worthwhile to me as a questioning and criticizing atheist. Who knows; it could lead me to create another interesting thread showing the benefits of taking the New Testament at face value without question.I'll address your inquiries when you leave out the assertions, til then I have no interest in dealing with an endless array of strawmen. How we avoid that, is by approaching me without preconceived ideas and assumptions. Thanks.
So that will be a ' no I cannot do that because there is nothing in the New Testament that a Christian benefits from that an atheist might also benefit from without having to go down on his knees, prey to the sky, or an terrible image of a man suffering a violent death on a cross or take the bible at face value without question'.
I see , just as I thought. One doesn't have to be religious to see that there might be fk plenty of benefits ie " useful and worthwhile" in the scriptures, but it is odd that you are reluctant to point them out, why is that ?
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@ethang5
Yes post #10 where you tell me.
No one needs to waste much time on you.
But here you still are.
And again at post #12 you respond to me
Then do not waste your time, silly billy.No one does anymore.
But here you still are
At post #15 you seem to have a change of heart or simply cannot get enough of me;
I will be here for you.
Which was so nice and reassuring to know .
But then again at post # 20 you change your mind again and tell me again:
I won't waste time with you.
But here you still are.
And then at post # 26 you tell me :
I never waste my time
But here you still are wasting your time on me after telling me many times that you won’t waste your time on me. . You just cannot get yourself together can you? And you certainly cannot wait to waste your time on me can you?
Is it ANY wonder you cannot understand these complicated, ambiguous, anomalous, enigmatic biblical half stories and contradictions in the scripture. Just look yourself man, you’re all over the place. You are attacking the man and not the ball and showing your desperation. Listen fool, you haven't once attempted to explain this very odd story and your berating of me and lying does not explain this silly story about ghosts, spirits, devils and Satan and why the disciples didn’t do anything about the treacherous Judas, when they had been granted all the powers to do so AND even bragged about having and using them to-boot.
But I understand why you can’t explain it. You haven't been given the mental theological tools one needs to cope with the inevitable push back from persons such as myself. And the reason for that is because your teachers and preachers knew the congregation wouldn't dare question them or their authority on anything they said and because the congregation was far too fk dumb to think and deduce for themselves, which in turn gave them the false belief that they didn't need practice or rehearse and prepare an answer to this problem, until, that is, someone like me comes along and points out the bleedin' obvious. This is why you are stumped to explain away this ambiguous anomaly with credible, factual evidence, THEY hadn't prepared YOU for this eventuality.
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@EtrnlVw
who the heck reads a book to not only ignore anything useful and worthwhile
Point me to something in the New Testament that you believe is useful and worthwhile to me as a questioning and criticizing atheist. Who knows; it could lead me to create another interesting thread showing the benefits of taking the New Testament at face value without question.
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@ethang5
You have said that a few times now but here you are STILL, wasting your timeI never waste my time Jed.
Good. Then you can crack on with this little problem that you keep avoiding>>
In Luke's gospel we can read about the “joy” of the disciples because Jesus had endowed them with great powers by all accounts:
One day Jesus called together his twelve disciples and gave them power and authority to cast out all demons and to heal all diseases. Luke 9.
In fact there are 18 verses where authority to cast out and of casting out devils are mentioned. I won’t list them all unless asked to do so. But we can safely say that beyond doubt that the disciples were granted and did use this power of casting out devils/demons.
And the seventy [disciples]returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. Luke 10:17.
We than get to the betrayal and The Last Supper where we read;
The deal to betray Jesus.
“Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot how he might betray Him” Luke 22:3.
The Last Supper
“And after the sop (dipped bread)Satan entered into him”.John 13:27.
And the story goes Judas popped out to betray his lord giving away the location where he can be found and arrested ect ect.
I think the question by know should be glaring. But for those who do not want to face this, yet another anomaly as glaring as it is, one has to ask;
Why didn’t they cast out the devil that had entered Judas? And strangely, nowhere in the bible does anyone pray for Judas or the devil come to that. The devil, by all counts, was still one of god's creations too, after all.?
The reader should keep in mind here that the deal to betray Jesus was struck before the last supper.
So ethang. Read slowly and carefully. Take your time and get back to me when you have something solid, and more importantly, FACTUAL to offer instead of your usual rewriting of the scripture.
OFF YOU GO.
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@ethang5
I won't waste time with you.
Yes, so you keep saying. You have said that a few times now but here you are STILL, wasting your time and mine and STILL unable to answer yet ANOTHER ambiguous anomaly.
Your responses really are laughable.
Those disciples should have known a demon when they seen one shouldn't they? They had been casting them out since these powers were endowed on them by Jesus, yet couldn't recognise one when it was sitting at the same dining table. Don't make me laugh. You simply have no explanation for this extremity strange story and the reason for that is because your teachers and preachers knew the congregation wouldn't dare question them or their authority on anything they said and because the congregation was far too fk dumb to think and deduce for themselves, which in turn gave them the false belief that they didn't need practice or rehearse and prepare an answer to this problem, until, that is, someone like me comes along and points out the bleedin' obvious. This is why you are stumped to explain away this ambiguous anomaly with credible, factual evidence, THEY hadn't prepared YOU for this eventuality.
Any Gentle Reader who is interested, can see the rebuttal in the posts above.
There is no rebuttal above. And neither is there any sort of answer to this ambiguous biblical anomaly. The verses are from the bible, are you saying they are not biblical verses? I have simply asked a question and raised an issue. it is YOUR job to explain it. AND you haven't. because you can't.
Never mind eh. Mind how you pray.
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@zedvictor4
the most important question Christians should ask.Is, why do I bother with all this nonsense?
Or better. If I am going to believe this shite, why do I not at least try and attempt to make some sense of this jumbled mass of half stories, anomalies, contradictions and out right lies instead of just taking the words of my elders and teachers who have simply interpreted their own version this classical mess and fed it to me from childhood.
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@ethang5
will be here for you. Every time you post fakery, I will call you on it."No one needs to waste much time on you".
Then don't. But make your mind up FFS either you won't waste your time or you will be here for me.
But I will keep asking questions concerning what is clearly the unreliability of the Christian scriptures. And you are more than welcome to attempt to explain my questions and highlighted biblical contradictions away in your usual fashion of re writing the bible and putting words into the mouths the characters of the New Testament.
So why don' you start by addressing the content of this thread seeing that it was you that resurrected it from the dead of over a year ago where I hadn't "run away" and was the last to post on it.
Here you go. lets start again.......
In Luke's gospel we can read about the “joy” of the disciples because Jesus had endowed them with great powers by all accounts:
One day Jesus called together his twelve disciples and gave them power and authority to cast out all demons and to heal all diseases. Luke 9.
In fact there are 18 verses where authority to cast out and of casting out devils are mentioned. I won’t list them all unless asked to do so. But we can safely say that beyond doubt that the disciples were granted and did use this power of casting out devils/demons.
And the seventy [disciples]returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. Luke 10:17.
We than get to the betrayal and The Last Supper where we read;
The deal to betray Jesus.
“Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot how he might betray Him” Luke 22:3.
The Last Supper
“And after the sop (dipped bread)Satan entered into him”.John 13:27.
And the story goes Judas popped out to betray his lord giving away the location where he can be found and arrested ect ect.
I think the question by know should be glaring. But for those who do not want to face this, yet another anomaly as glaring as it is, one has to ask;
Why didn’t they cast out the devil that had entered Judas? And strangely, nowhere in the bible does anyone pray for Judas or the devil come to that. The devil, by all counts, was still one of god's creations too, after all.?
The reader should keep in mind here that the deal to betray Jesus was struck before the last supper.
So ethang. Read slowly and carefully. Take your time and get back to me when you have something solid, and more importantly, FACTUAL to offer instead of your usual rewriting of the scripture.
OFF YOU GO.
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@TheRealNihilist
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNN
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But you run away from debating it.
"But but but but" . Listen, until today - December 8th when you posted on this thread, I was the last person to have wrote on this thread on 09.25.18 07:28AM . That is over a YEAR ago!!!!!. I hadn't "run" anywhere, you silly silly little billy.
Now A YEAR after my last post on this thread, my thread, you come on to the thread and accuse me of "running away" and then in the your immediate next breath you tell me:
--> @ethang5 "No one needs to waste much time on you".
So, again. THEN STOP!!! wasting your time . I am not interested in your opinions so you really are wasting your own time and mine.
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@ethang5
You aren't above lying and posting fake verses. And you never address rebuttals, instead, you simply keep posting the verses you think are problematic as if simply posting them proves you correct.
Opinion. Any other opinions you may as well keep to yourself. Opinions are not facts and I have absolutely no interest in them.
It is only your opinion that there are no contradictions in the Bible. I don't agree. As do many biblical scholars. But you would simply deny them also and claim that they are wrong too, but you forget to add that it is only your opinion that they are wrong. You also keep forgetting that I don't care what you believe or think about me. It is irrelevant.
Finally, you are ignorant of scripture.
Opinion AGAIN: See above.
You are a fake.
Wrong and again that is your opinion not a fact.
A fraud.
I have nothing to be fraudulent about. And again, that is only your opinion.
No one needs to waste much time on you.
Then do not waste your time, silly billy. You only lose every time anyway and make yourself look silly in trying to explain away these biblical anomalies ambiguous statements and clear contradictions.
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@Greyparrot
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@TheRealNihilist
Instead of clicking the orange button you could've realized. on your way to clicking that. there is a "platform development" section. You have done this more than once and I believe that you have been on this site long enough to know what that section is.
You really are a boring, nauseating, tit aren't you. It appears - to you- that I posted in the wrong thread. SO FKing WHAT!!!!! Get over it. I have had a answer to my SUGGESTION way back at posts two (2) & four (4) FROM -DebateArt.com AND in the thread I posted it in and I needn't go no further. So wind you neck in FFS! I don't want, OR NEED anything from you.
Well why not add it to this thread?
BECAUSE DO NOT NEED TO!!!!!! MY SUGGESTION HAS ALREADY BEEN ADDRESSED BY DebateArt.com AT POST TWO AND FOUR!!!!!!!!!!!
Now go away, you are becoming as irritating as a fly around a horses arse.
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@TheRealNihilist
You said only demands and requests go in the platform development thread.
Not true show me where. I didn't say any such thing.
You said this thread was warranted because it is a suggestion.
I haven't said any such thing, Show me where I have said that.
I argue that even suggestions can be placed under platform development thread.
Ok, and I have admitted that I may posted my SUGGESTION in the wrong thread AFTER YOU had pointed it out. SO FKN WHAT!!!!. Why the song and dance FFS!
I make no demand to DA. I simple suggest a thing or ask things. He has no obligation to accept or even answer back.
I made no demand either, I made a fkn suggestion, so again what the FK are you banging on about!!!???
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@TheRealNihilist
There is already a thread dedicated to your platform development needs.
It was a suggestion, I didn't even suggest it was a "need" or request it was a need of mine.. What the hell are you going on about.
I'll take your excuse as a bad one.
Take it as you like. I made a suggestion. I didn't make any excuses, at all. What are you actually talking about?
You can suggest things on the platform development section
OK I suggested something in the wrong thread. Why are you making a fk song and dance about it!?
so the distinction isn't actually a distinction.
OK, i'll bite, you got me again, what distinction are you banging on about?
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