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@3RU7AL
Being a Muslim does not in-and-of-itself make you a terrorist.
And you won't find anywhere on this forum where I have even suggested that never mind said it. So I think it best you just fk off this thread - my thread- where you have contributed absolutely nothing but ask irrelevant questions such as:
If I polled christians around the planet and said, "do homos deserve to burn in hell for all eternity", how many do you think would say "yes"?
Where I have responded :
I don't have a clue and neither do you. But burning "IN HELL" is not the same as being strung up , stoned or burned here on earth in this life by men,now is it. stop being so ignorant. Or do I need to explain that to you .
I ask you again, do you need me to explain that to you?
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@keithprosser
Sounds a lot like shut me up or cover something up you don't want exposed.Sounds a lot like you want a free hand and to be unchallenged!
NOT AT ALL If i didn't want to be challenged I doubt I would still be here.
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@keithprosser
I have given my opinion on that score [i.e. what to do] many times to you and you simply ignored it.I confess to not recalling what you recommended. But even if I did, there might be someone following this thread who doesn't know what you think should be done so you might care to repeat it.
No, lets have yours for a fkn change and stop bottling everything I put to you.
This is what you have said above:
Given there is a social issue to be addressed, the important thing is what to do about it.
So, off you go, what do you suggest should be done about it. Start by telling us what the "IT" is and why you believe something should be done about it, if anything?
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Would a so called "moderate muslim" call for the death penatlty for anyone performing homosexual acts? YES or NO?The problem is your insistence that the answer is yes or no. Sometimes things just aren't that simple, are they?
I ask YOU because you are insisting that there are "types" of muslims. in this case we talking about those muslims you often refer to as " moderate muslims". I have asked you to explain to me what a "moderate muslims" is. You haven't done so. Are you now saying that there are different "types" of "moderate muslims"?
and yes it is that simple and it is either yes or no.
Are most Muslims in the UK calling for the death penalty for homosexual acts?
These British so called "moderate muslims" are.
3 Years ago this poll shows that 52% of these British muslims want homosexuality criminalised . I can only imagine what the percentage is today. But if islamic Shariah does take over what then? Will these "moderate muslims" be happy with simply criminalising homosexuality? And what would be the penalty. what does islam say the penalty is for such "crimes"?
.
For different reasons, Stephen and I don't like the word 'moderate'.
Hang on just a minute. You have been banging on about "moderate muslims" for ever, and I have pressed you often on many occasions to explain to me what a "moderate muslim" is. And you have always avoided that question. AND NOW you are saying you don't even like or have "gone off" the word "moderate"?
I've gone off it recently because it doesn't have a clear meaning.
No you have gone off the phrase simply because the evidence that I have shown you indicates if not proves there isn't any such thing as "moderate Islam" or a "moderate muslim" to my knowledge.
You simply couldn't say yes or no to a simple question of whether or not the muslims in this 5 minute video were moderate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiiGkB6wp4A&t=3s ...
.....is it any wonder then that you have " gone off the word". It gets you out of very sticky situations . You can no longer say there are "moderate muslims" anymore can you. Like Yassine has clearly asked you, "why not just muslim"?
When I asked you would a "moderate muslims" demand death for homosexuals, you bulked on that too. And now, just like a little child, you are saying " i don't like this game, because you keep winning". I would expect that from a amoebic sea sponge but never from you.
I think Stephen doesn't like it because it implies there could be an 'acceptable face of islam' different from the demonised bogeyman he promotes.
No I don't believe there will ever be an "acceptable face of Islam" under any circumstances. There isn't one now, and there never can be one , so there will not be one. The quran is the last, perfect, unalterable word of god/ Allah. You have to get that into your head, because there is no getting away from this fact.
You are simply refusing to see this from the muslims standpoint because it goes against what YOU want ISLAM to be. Devout muslims believe that the Quran is the perfect word of god , so if it "perfect" it don't need altering or reforming or dragging into the 21st century.
You keep trying don't you, but it doesn't work no matter how many times you try to contextualise ancient 7th century Islam with 21st century ChristianityMy intent was to illustrate the difference between cultures.
As if anyone in the west didn't know there was a difference? A BIG fkn differences. And It doesn't stop at just cultural differences does it. No prosser, there differences in civilisations too.
I think that if people try to imagine the US being run by insane fundamentalist evangelicals they will get a good idea of how different the Islamic world is from what we are familiar with.
HOW FKN POMPOUS !!!! Are you saying that you are trying to educate the rest of the western world into releasing "how different the islamic world is" because they simply do not have a clue about the world outside their own homes ????They only have to look at the women dressed head to toe in a roll of black cloth in temperatures over 100 degrees fahrenheit to maybe realise that "this is different and not for me".FFS!!
People do not have to "imagine" any such thing when the "islamic world" is on their doorstep and not yours.
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@keithprosser
Whether you are a racist and whether I am a 'libtard' is neither here nor there.
Oh please. You would love nothing than me being a PROVEN racist "islamophobe". It would make your life so much easier not to mention your argument where you could put everything I say down to _ ' my racist islamophobic opinion '. without you having to debunk and dispel anything I have to say on the problem of islam. And the reason for this is that you simply have no argument and no answers. Is all you have unsupported opinions and you fail any challenges to those too when asked to.
Given there is a social issue to be addressed, the important thing is what to do about it.
I agree, so let's hear it. I have given my opinion on that score many times to you and you simply ignored it. So go ahead . Your turn.I have asked you this many times now but you have failed to respond. The issue is Islam and "what to do about it", So let's hear it.
I think the content and tone of your posts exaggerates, exacerbates and misreprents the issues.
As a rule I only post in support of my claims which are usually from Islamic sources including the quran. I spend most of my time here debunking your fkn claims again WITH ISLAMIC SOURCES!!!!!. You don't like this and I can't help that you don't like it. Tell me, when someone -YOU - tells me that there are "kinds" "forms" and types of islam" and MUSLIM, am I simply to take YOUR fkn word for it?
I'm sure even you would not claim that you strive for balance in you posts on Islam!
Listen, When you make a claim about Islam and don't agree with it or YOU, then the idea is for me to debunk it, not accept it and go away. Debunking your claim is all about one side OUTWEIGHING the other side, i.e to tip the BALANCE in favour of MY argument, not YOURS!!!!, didn't you know that?
so I try to put some sand on top!
Sounds a lot like shut me up or cover something up you don't want exposed.
That's not because I love Islam or don't see the problem it's because I think you are -in a very small way because your audience here is tiny and not very receptive - making things worse using a 'tabloid' approach to a 'broadsheet' problem!
Like I have said many times. If you make a claim that I do not agree with, then I will set out to debunk that claim.
Tell me, would a so called "moderate muslim" call for the death penatlty for anyone performing homsexual acts? Yes or NO?
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@keithprosser
Presumably many Christians know the verse"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." (Lev 20:13) is in the bible but they don't call for the death penalty for gays. But perhaps if Christian fundamentalists gain power that will be the law.
You keep trying don't you, but it doesn't work no matter how many times you try to contextualise ancient 7th century Islam with 21st century Christianity
The problem is that in much of the Muslim world fundamentalists do have political power.
I think you meant to say ' Islamic world " didn't you? Or are you saying that "the MUSLIM world" and the ISLAMIC world are one and the same?
Oh and you missed this question AGAIN!
Would a so called "moderate muslim" call for the death penatlty for anyone performing homosexual acts? YES or NO?
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@3RU7AL
Would a so called "moderate muslim" call for the death penatlty for anyone performing homsexual acts? YES or NO?Your question is clearly deceptive.
So you, like just like that other apologist prosser, won't answer that simple question but instead choose to attack the questioner and ask questions of your own in response. This is not addressing the question. This is typical of apologists for Islam because you know the second you answer that question your argument goes flying out of the fkn window.
These muslims call themselves "moderate" and they may well be IN THE EYES OF ISLAM!!!! because they all agree that homsexuals and adulterers should be killed.
If I polled christians around the planet and said, "do homos deserve to burn in hell for all eternity", how many do you think would say "yes"?
I don't have a clue and neither do you. But burning "IN HELL" is not the same as being strung up , stoned or burned here on earth in this life by men,now is it. stop being so ignorant. Or do I need to explain that to you .
Please present the data you are obviously so eager to present and let's discuss that.
What data you fool? I have presented evidence that supports MY fkn argument not one that YOU believe you have!!!!. And the theme of this thread - MY thread, is dispelling the "only a tiny minority myth".
So try again or leave the thread.
Repeatedly quoted and requoted, the phrase "only a tiny minority" is often used by apologists when radical Islam bubbles to the surface.
In this 6 minute video that myth is finally put to rest. Interesting is the fact that this person quotes the well respected Pew Research Centre as his source.
The Myth of the Tiny Radical Muslim Minority https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg&t=114s
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Irrelevant to this thread. If you cannot defend your own claims or debunk mine, leave the fkn thread.You're the one who brought up Saudi Arabian laws
Yes I did and in response to a very silly person who simply doesn't seem to know or even believe that in ISLAM the penalty for Adultery and Homosexuality is death. I Just gave him a few examples.
Are you proposing that we treat Saudi Arabia the same as you propose we treat Iran?It's a simple "yes" or "no" question.
It has nothing to do with this thread. and who are "we"? I am English. and this still has absolutely no bearing on this thread concerning " only tiny minority". If you want to start a thread on the subject go to the politics forum.
You haven't even attempted my question. Would a so called "moderate muslim" call for the death penatlty for anyone performing homsexual acts? YES or NO? You have avoided this question 5 times now!!!!!!
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@3RU7AL
Are you in favor of sanctioning Saudi Arabia?
Irrelevant to this thread. If you cannot defend your own claims or debunk mine, leave the fkn thread.
Who would have thought you were such a big pro-homosexual human rights advocate!
What I am is neither here nor there.
And I am not entirely sure what your point actually is. But Islam is barbaric and I do not agree with killing people because they are different.
The usual attitude in the free liberal and democratic west is that whatever people do behind their own doors is entirely their affair. And I happen to agree. Islam doesn't agree with either Liberalism or Democracy or Freedom either.
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I call this a distinction without a difference. Both hold the same fundamentals but reach that goal in different ways.
You can call it what the hell you like. Christianity like judaism has dragged itself into the 21st century ISLAM has not and cannot. You attempting to contextualise Christianity of the 21st century with 7th century.ISLAM is a poor attempt at justifying a barbaric death cult not to mention laughable and pointless. But you knock yourself out, my response won't change no matter how many times you try this bullshiite.
Go away you clown. Islam is very clear that the penalties for both Homosexuality and adultery is death. Are you denying this fact?Why are you changing what you said earlier? You had a problem with Muslims stoning adulterers and homosexuals.
Are you telling me that the sentence for homosexuality and adultery in ISLAM is NOT death?
Here you go, mind how you choke>>.
Rajm is an Arabic word that means "stoning".[2][3] It is commonly used to refer to the Hudud punishment wherein an organized group throws stones at a convicted individual until that person dies. Under some versions of Islamic law (Sharia), it is the prescribed punishment in cases of adultery committed by a married man or married woman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajm.
Afghanistan. The Afghanistan Penal Code does not refer to homosexuality explicitly, but provides for prosecuting it under the sharia [islamic law] category of zina (illicit sexual intercourse), which according to some traditional Islamic legal schools may entail the hadd (sharia-prescribed) punishment of stoning.
Saudi Arabia, which does not have codified criminal laws.[4] According to the country's interpretation of sharia, a married man who commits sodomy, or a non-Muslim who engages in sodomy with a Muslim, can be stoned to death.[7]
In other islamic countries it could be hanging ----- from a crane. Others it can be thrown from a very tall building.. But you can deny this if you like. it matters not the method, because the result is exactly the same : DEATH!!!!
You sure you can register in your thick skull that you can be wrong?
No, I am not wrong and I can register that. I ask you again. are you trying to tell me that the penalty for Homosexuality and Adultery IN ISLAM is not death?
Brunei implements stoning to death under anti-LGBT laws
I believe the Sultan may have backpedaled on this decision though. After a civilised Queen from the West had a word with him.
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Polytheist-Witch wrote: Can you report your own posts?
I doubt it but wouldn't put it past him to have mistakenly tried to report abuse not realising it was his own post. He does have a habit of denying saying /writing things at times as shown above. Who knows? Maybe he has psychological issues and really doesn't realise and simply forgets what he writes or cannot identify himself with the vile abusive bully that he is.
It would be a lot better if the ignore/block button worked like many other forums where you don't see any of the posts at all of the person you have blocked.
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@3RU7AL
Listen to this lady. I think she sums it all up pretty well, including " wahhabism".
Islam Explained In Under 5 Minutes
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Cherry picking to suit your narrative.
You asked for the difference. I showed you the difference, How would you expect me to show you the difference you buffoon.
Evidence that the Qur'an says to stone homosexuals.Evidence that the Qur'an says to stone adulterers.
Go away you clown. Islam is very clear that the penalties for both Homosexuality and adultery is death. Are you denying this fact?
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@3RU7AL
It may be time to hang up your BROAAD BRUUSH.
Nope. It is all Islam. It is still 7th century Islam. NOTE from your link; " believing in a strict literal interpretation of the Quran". The Quran; this would be the same book all those other "islams" go by wouldn't it?
Listen to this lady. I think she sums it all up pretty well, including " wahhabism".
Islam Explained In Under 5 Minutes
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@TheRealNihilist
So what is the difference between Islam and Christianity again?
here is a clue;
ISLAM - Quran 51 - " You, who have believed, do not take the Jews andthe Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoeveris an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allahguides not the wrongdoing people".
ISLAM - Quran 8:39 "And fight them until there is no fitnah and[until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah......"
Christianity - Matthew 22:39 "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself".
Christianity - Matthew 5:38-40 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.
I will add:
Christians do not stone homosexuals to death, they do not stone adulterers to death and they do not stone victims or rape to death either. islam does all three.
THAT IS THE FKN DIFFERENCE!!!!!!
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@3RU7AL
Tell me, would a so called "moderate muslim" call for the death penatlty for anyone performing homsexual acts? Yes or NOIn Leviticus 20:13 "The Bible" says, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.”Are you suggesting that Judaism/Christianity is "incompatible with the west"?
You can keep banging your head against a lightbulb. It has no relevance at all what the ancient biblical texts have to say . Go back to post 43 and read what I responded to there:
Stephen wrote>>> ; Christianity has reformed we are now in the 21st century islam unfortunately is still stuck in the 7th century. The west has taken power away from the priests - for good or ill, depending on one's belief; but it seems to be running along quite nicely without the interference and influence they and the church once had.
And to borrow a quote from the pompous prosser himself who had this to say on this particular matter;
-> @keithprosser post 41"The difference is that in Christian societies is that the bible is not the ultimate authority. That is to say laws don't have to be justified by reference to scripture, and laws can (and do) contradict scripture. But the Islamic system is theocratic which means law must conform to and never contradict scripture.note I say 'law' not belief. What is in the quran does not only affect how an inividual Muslim feels about eating shellfish. In a theocratic system scripture dictates social policy, education policy, health policy, gender policy etc. In the west we can debate, for example, the death penalty. In a theocracy there is no debate - there are just religious scholars poring over ancient tomes imposing their learned opinions.In the west we are so used to democracy and secularism its hard to imagine theocracy. The real contrast is not between Christianity and Islam but between secularism and theocracy. There are theocratically-minded Christians in the west, and they have a small political effect. But if you imagine a US ruled by fundamentalist evangelicals with no oppostion you get some idea of theocracy.
It is of no consequence at all that you repeatedly refer to the Old Testament as if it has relevance to Christianity today in the 21st century, IT DOESN'T!!! And it doesn't offer balance of who was is the baddest or the worst. Islam is STILL Islam, unchanged, unaltered and still adhered to by millions of muslims to the letter.
Your attempts to contextualise Christianity and Judaism of the 21st century with what is still 7th century islam in the 21st century is pointless if not laughable. IT SIMPLY DOES NOT WORK!!
Prosser, and now you, have not answered the question:
Would a so called "moderate muslim" call for the death penatlty for anyone performing homsexual acts? YES or NO?
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@TheRealNihilist
What about you are going to hell because you are not a Christian for eternity?
I hope so. I believe that there would be a better class of people in hell, should hell actually exist.
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@TheRealNihilist
Using fear to drive people to do irrational things where we need a more rational response to problems.
What about the promise of paradise and seventy virgins and wine that doesn't get you drunk? Does that drive people to do "irrational things".
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Whether you are a racist and whether I am a 'libtard' is neither here nor there.
Oh please. You would love nothing than me being a PROVEN racist "islamophobe". It would make your life so much easier not to mention your argument where you could put everything I say down to _ ' my racist islamophobic opinion '. without you having to debunk and dispel anything I have to say on the problem of islam. And the reason for this is that you simply have no argument and no answers. Is all you have unsupported opinions and you fail any challenges to those too when asked to.
Given there is a social issue to be addressed, the important thing is what to do about it.
I agree, so let's hear it. I have given my opinion on that score many times to you and you simply ignored it. So go ahead . Your turn.I have asked you this many times now but you have failed to respond. The issue is Islam and "what to do about it", So lets hear it.
I think the content and tone of your posts exaggerates, exacerbates and misreprents the issues.
As a rule I only post in support of my claims which are usually from Islamic sources including the quran. I spend most of my time here debunking your fkn claims again WITH ISLAMIC SOURCES!!!!!. You don't like this and I can't help that you don't like it. Tell me, when someone -YOU - tells me that there are "kinds" "forms" and types of islam" and MUSLIM, am I simply to take YOUR fkn word for it?
I'm sure even you would not claim that you strive for balance in you posts on Islam!
Listen, When you make a claim about Islam and don't agree with it or YOU, then the idea is for me to debunk it, no accept it and go away. Debunking your claim is all about one side OUTWEIGHING the other side, i.e to tip the BALANCE in favour of MY argument, not YOURS!!!!, didn't you know that?
so I try to put some sand on top!
Sounds a lot like shut me up or cover something up you don't want exposed.
That's not because I love Islam or don't see the problem it's because I think you are -in a very small way because your audience here is tiny and not very receptive - making things worse using a 'tabloid' approach to a 'broadsheet' problem!
Like I have said many times. If you make a claim that I do not agree with, then I will set out to debunk that claim.
Tell me, would a so called "moderate muslim" call for the death penatlty for anyone performing homsexual acts? Yes or NO
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@3RU7AL
You would also be hard pushed to find anything from me that could be called " anti-muslim"".I'm perfectly willing to accept this might be the case, but you'll have to clarify your position.
I don't care what you will or will not accept. I have made my position clear on many occasions. It is the likes of you and prosser and the sea sponge - now banned- simply WISHING me to be racist and WISHING me to be bigoted, because then you just may have an argument. It didn't take prosser too long to imply I was racist. His very first post on this thread to be precise when he made this disgusting bigoted statement :
--> @keithprosser I think he [Stephen] sees this as an opprtunity to get rid of brown people!
But because you cannot wish either into existence, apologist like prosser attempt all kinds of ways to alter the playing field, move the goal posts and simply attempt to re define the fkn english language and invent new words in the hope that it will force people like me to be silent and make me look bad. This is why that out of sheer desperation to justify Islam and apologise for it people such as prosser desperately attempts to define islam/ muslims as a race. It is ISLAM I have a problem with.
As it stands, you definitely sound like you're standing in the middle of the street screeching "anti-muslim" over and over again.
Then you are either purposefully ignoring what I say, or don't understand what I have said or wrote. Give me an example of me "screeching "anti-muslim" over and over again.".
now IF you had said:
' As it stands, you definitely sound like you're standing in the middle of the street screeching "anti- ISLAM" over and over again' ,
you would be correct.
I perfectly understand that the biggest sufferers of this barbaric ideology ISLAM are muslims themselves. It is ISLAM that I have a problem with.
No w, you won't forget to give me an example of me screeching something "anti-muslim" over and over again, will you.
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@Alec
How long is disgusted banned for?
I believe this is his 3rd ban. But I do not know if there is a limit concerning being banned so many times or as many times as he has? But in essence, I don't really care because he wouldn't be missed by me. I have to agree with Dr Franklin in that he disrupts every thread and contributes very little to a discussion in the way of facts or simple general knowledge. His opinions and statements and questions are childishly repetitive, He doesn't just ask question that 4 year old children have been asking for centuries, but he insults directly people simply for having a belief and faith in something. He calls all muslims stupid, he says all muslims are in urgent need of psychiatric treatment. I have implored him at times not to attack and bully the believer so vilely but to attack what the believer believes in . His normal response was to start a thread as silly and backward such as this titled :
When did Mother Goose Land on Planet Expandor
He persistently demands "proof, citations and evidence" from everyone but fails miserably to do so when he is asked to do the same. He calls people liars without a single shred of evidence and what I find worse about him is that he actually denies saying or writing something when the evidence is put in front of him.
Example; he started a thread titled: Ignorant, primitive, superstitious savages
Added: 06.04.19 01:10PM
--> @Stephen
You said that these so called gods are " Ignorant, primitive, superstitious savages... " I have simply said "Not to the the faithful "god believers" they are not, or can you prove otherwise? Can't you read!?? And you haven't shown me otherwise. Because it is an impossibility for you to show me a faithful follower of Christ who believes he or his god to be any of those thing you have proposed.
"Your level of reading comprehension is somewhat below that of a brain damaged garden slug"
You said that these so called gods are " Ignorant, primitive, superstitious savages... "
"Citation needed. You don't have a citation because I didn't say it, you did. Leave your conical hat on".
I posted this and still he denied it was his thread:>
You said that these so called gods are " Ignorant, primitive, superstitious savages...Citation needed.
Ignorant, primitive, superstitious savages
Author: disgusted, 2 days ago
How long is anyone supposed to endure his bullying, demanding of evidence, and outright lying. I am not surprised he is banned again, and I have absolutely no sympathy for the guy. He must be terribly lonely now though.
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@>>>>disgusted You don't attack Islam you attack Muslims and then you lie about it.
Nope and you cannot show me or anyone where I have "attacked muslims". Unlike yourself who states often that;
" MUSLIMS have serious mental health issues and , are in urgent need of psychiatric treatment" and Muhammad the prophet and Allah the god of islam all have " mental health issues"
And I repeat that - according to a tenet of Islam - babies born of muslim parents are born MUSLIM.
"The Prophet Muhammad said, "No babe is born but upon Fitra - as a Muslim -. It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist." (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426)
So take that up with a 'real' muslim before you start calling them "Insane, stupid , have serious mental issues, and in need of urgent psychiatric attention", I am sure they will explain this muslim birth phenomenon much better that I.
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@keithprosser
The present situation shows that xenophobia can exist in other forms. It should have been realised long ago - we had plenty of examples of xenophobia that were not racial - ant-semitism, sectarian violence between RCs an protestants, Shia v Sunni, Tutsis anf Hutus, Serbs and Croats...
"ant-semitism", <<<<< RELIGION
"sectarian violence between RCs an protestants," <<<<< RELIGION
"Shia v Sunni", <<<<< RELIGION
"Tutsis anf Hutus", <<<<< RELIGION
Serbs and Croats...<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< RACE
Now it has been broken down can anyone see what this sly and deceitful apologist prosser has attempted to do once more. This is a attempt by a left wing liberal apologist for ISLAM to redefine a word. let's look at the meaning of "Xenophobia"
xenophobia
- dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries.
My parents were from other countries. My mother was Italian and my father Welsh. I love peoples from both these countries and many others countries. I have relations in the Yemen (Aden. my sister married an Arab), as well as Italy (Naples) and Wales (Prestatyn).
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@3RU7AL
--> @keithprosserI am not saying every muslim is a terrorist or a potential terrorist, but the bulk of Muslims are less liberal and less progresive than the bulk of westerners.Why I am opposed to Stephen is what to do about it. I think he sees this as an opprtunity to get rid of brown people! I see it as requiring finding a way to change the mindset of British muslims - and ideally, muslims everywhere.Well stated.
I have responded to that with the above at post 11 when I stated
"Calling me racist is not going to cure the problem of there being more radicals than the "tiny few" apologist like you want to admit. There are millions of muslim radicals that support the muslim extreme terrorist.
I would like you to point out to the forum where I have stated anything racist keeping in mind islam is not a race, as much as you try to tell the world that it is. You would also be hard pushed to find anything from me that could be called " anti-muslim"".
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@TheRealNihilist
Why do you think Islam is like how they are?
ISLAM is like how THEY are!!!!???
CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG; but
I am going to assume you meant to say, "why do you think - 'Muslims' - are the way they are"? .
If so, my answer would be it may have something to do with teachings in the quran. Barring the "tiny minority". What do you think?
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@keithprosser
I've @'ed yassine in the hope of getting his perspective.
No you have added a muslim because you need a fkn ally. He has already responded to this on this thread:
When you asked for an alternative "suggestion"
--> @keithprosser Post 71I'm more than happy to not use the word 'moderate' if you suggest an alternative. There are Muslims who want to establish a world Caliphate and are prepared to use violence and force to achieve it. There are "muslims who actually do want to actually live in a peaceful integrated western society." - at least in theory!We need labels to discuss the issue. In the west non-muslims have adopted 'Islamist' and 'Moderate' for that purpose. Many Muslims do not like those terms, for reasons I gave earlier.So please do uggest term for the different sorts of Islam and their followers - they may catch on! But I don't expect many Muslims to read my posts, so I will stick with 'islamist/ihdist/fanatical' etc for one sort and 'moderate' for the other.- Or just, Muslims. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/2062?page=3
What do you think I am prosser , some kind of embryonic amoeba?
You ask something similar on this thread too:
why Islam is "backward" can be read here: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/1707
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@disgusted
I've been restricted from reporting abusive postsAuthor: disgusted, 17 hours ago
Oh plllleeeeease. Don't tell me the worst abuser and bully on the forum has had his feeling hurt. Or have you been trying to mistakenly report your own posts. That wouldn't surprise me at all.
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@disgusted
Added: 07.13.19 09:03PMThat's the question I am posing in the Religion forum for the sake of accuracy. Please provide evidence of your claim
That is just about the limit of your amoebic brain isn't it.
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@TheRealNihilist
No.
Christianity is against the rules yet Christian propaganda is still allowed on the site.
And it is allowed to be scrutinised and questioned and criticised, I do so all the time and go unmolested. Where as Islam, you are commiting a fk crime if you dare do the same.
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@dustryder
Of course they are if the want Shariah. Because you may not have noticed but along with Islamic "family & property disputes" shariah law aslo has the death penalty for homesexuals, adulterers and and apostates. If you believe that in Islam you can pick and choose which laws you agree with and those you do not, and which ones you will accept and which ones you will not accept,then you have no understanding of Sharia .Different parts of rules are not all evenly applied and interpreted in the same way
So? They are still there embedded in Islamic law called Shariah, along with the death penalty for homesexuals, adulterers and and apostates. I won't argue that maybe some islamic countries are not a strict as others, but it doesn't alter the fact that those rules/islamic laws are still there, still practiced and still enforced.
If I were to ask a christian should the followings and tenets laid out in the bible be obeyed, the answer would probably yes.
Irrelevant. The fact that you keep bringing the bible and christians into this thread is irrelevant. And I don't agree with you anyway. As I have said , Christianity has reformed and moved on into the 21st century as has Judaism. islam unfortunately has not and cannot and you know why don' t you?
There are many passages in the bible considered to be archaic.
Yes there are and they are for the best part void, obsolete and also irrelevant. Your clutching at straws sunshine. You'll need a better argument than bible bashing. Christianity has reformed we are now in the 21st century islam unfortunately from my point of view is still stuck in the 7th century. The west has taken power away from the priests - for good or ill, depending on one's belief; but it seems to be running along quite nicely without the interference and influence they and the church once had.
Does the christian mean that shellfish should not be eaten,mixed fabrics should etc etc etc
Your like a moth clambering about in the dark until it sees a light, then simply cannot stop banging its head against it.
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@keithprosser
I think a good way to understand it is that Muslims interpret 'moderate' as 'half-hearted'. Many Muslims take their religion seriously and don't like being called 'half-hearted Muslims' just because they don't blow up buses.I imagine Stephen wouldn't like me calling him a 'half-hearted Englishman'!
Anyone reading here can see what an absolute sly fkr the apologist keith prosser is. He has tried this stunt before hoping no one will notice. This is prosser in full self righteous pompous sly and devious apologetic mode.
He starts of with this line: "I think a good way to understand it is that Muslims interpret 'moderate' as 'half-hearted'.". Note the word Muslims. He uses it three times in two very short sentences above. Now keeping in mind that to be a muslim is not the same as being part of a race , prosser himself actually does then bring race into the mix adding : "I imagine Stephen wouldn't like me calling him a 'half-hearted Englishman'!"
He says this as if being a member of an actual race and being a follower of what he calls a "backward religion" are one and the same thing.
This is prosser the pompous apologist DESPERATELY trying to make being a member of a "backward religion" the same as being a part of a racial group, which of course is an impossibility , unless one decides that all of those following what he deems to be a "backward religion" are actually all part of the same race, which they are not. There are Arab muslims, Pakistani Muslims, Indian muslims and yes even English muslims.!!!!
Prosser's thread on why "Islam is "backward" can be read here: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/1707
Of course 'moderate' doesn't mean 'half-hearted' when a westerner uses the word 'moderate',
No it doesn't. and stop being so fkn sly. Trying to separate the word moderate from the word muslim when both are used to together when on the subject of Islam is just you, being devious to try to make or prove a point. It is only apologist such you who uses the phrase "moderate muslims" often but can never explain what it is to be a "moderate muslim" <<<<<<< see that!!!!!! two words!!
But this won't stop you desperately trying to tell us all that even when educated MUSLIM scholars and historians and a Muslim President use the word, that they actually mean something else. Muslims take the words "moderate muslim" as a direct insult, and not as the fluffy "half hearted" can't be arsed, not bothered either way' approach to their religion as you are proposing. They find it abusive, derogatory, insulting and critical of their religion and feel they are being accused of not being whole muslim and that the phrases " moderate Islam" and "moderate muslim" are nothing more than "a tool of the West to cause division".
"Drop the Moderate Muslism". https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/16/moderate-muslim-devout-liberal-religion
Erdogan rejects ‘moderate Islam’ as a Western tool to weaken Muslims. https://www.rt.com/news/409532-erdogan-rejects-moderate-islam/
but it does come over that way to Muslims, presumably for some obscure cultural or linguistic reason.
Not according to muslims. It actually comes over as insulting to their religion . See above.
That isn't 'aplogetics' - that is objective analysis of a misunderstanding.
Of course its "apologetics"! What you have proposed simply flies in the face of what muslims ACTUALLY believe about the " derogatory and insulting" term "moderate muslims" and this is nothing more than you, again, trying to tell us what Islam is and what muslims think and believe. So fk you again prosser.
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@disgusted
You're a liar
Wrong again sea slug. I have said that according to MUSLIM President Erdogan, "there is no such thing as "moderate ISLAM" . here again , see for yourself.
“The term ‘moderate Islam’ is being lathered up again. The patent of moderate Islam belongs to the West. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam; Islam is one. The aim of using such terms is to weaken Islam,” Erdogan said in Ankara.
The idea of ‘moderate Islam’ was invented by the West and is being used to weaken the ancient religion, Turkey’s President Recep Erdogan has said in reference to Saudi Arabia’s reforms, while also lashing out at the EU’s “discrimination” of Muslims.
OH and Muslims themselves do not like the term "moderate muslim". here see for yourself.
Can we drop the term ‘moderate Muslim’? It’s meaningless. “I see it as a criticism,” one woman in Luton told me. “You are giving me this label based on how I look and how I dress.” Her male friend said he found the word “offensive”, adding: “Are you saying I’m only 50% Muslim? When someone says to me ‘you’re moderate’ it suggests to me they’re saying ‘you’re not fully Muslim’.”
Your getting better than prosser of sticking your size nines in your mouth aren't you . hahahhahahahhahahahhahahhahah
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@dustryder
Are muslims who mainly favor the application of Sharia law towards family or property disputes radicalised? Where is the mention of this in Shapiro's video?
Of course they are if the want Shariah. Because you may not have noticed but along with Islamic "family & property disputes" shariah law aslo has the death penalty for homesexuals, adulterers and and apostates. If you believe that in Islam you can pick and choose which laws you agree with and those you do not, and which ones you will accept and which ones you will not accept,then you have no understanding of Sharia .
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@TheRealNihilist
If Stephen had any balls he would actually apologize for blatant Muslim bigotry in a form of false evidence
The evidence you claim to be fales comes from the well respected Pew Research Centre. So fk you, I won't be apologising for anything. You will have to debunk that research point by point.
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@disgusted
You claim that moderate Muslims don't exist
I have never made that claim,sea slug. I have asked what is a "moderate muslim" and are the people in this video moderate muslims. See for yourself if you can stay focused for 3 minutes.,
"Moderate" Muslims try to defend the death penalty for apostasy, adultery, homosexuality.
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@dustryder
Where is the mention of this in Shapiro's video?
Nothing stopping you showing that statistic. But it would only add to the point that "radicals" are not just a "tiny minority".
Shapiro's use of statistics is misleading and he is not to be trusted
Irrelevant. Attacking the man and not the ball doesn't win you an argument.
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@keithprosser
Do you seriously propose the writer of Job only wanted to tell a funny story about God and Satan having a bet one day?
There was nothing funny about it , what are you now, a fk clown.
what a good yhwhist should not give up their faith in God's greatness.
It was power,and nothing to do with faith.
It has to be borne in mind that the Hebrew god was not the 'god of love' of Christianity but a god of power.
FM! You just love stating the bleedin' obvious and repeating what has already been said, don't you?
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@keithprosser
I am not saying every muslim is a terrorist or a potential terrorist, but the bulk of Muslims are less liberal and less progresive than the bulk of westerners.
The point is that muslim "radicals" are more likely now to support the muslim extremist.
Why I am opposed to Stephen is what to do about it. I think he sees this as an opprtunity to get rid of brown people!
Calling me racist is not going to cure the problem of there being more radicals than the "tiny few" apologist like you want to admit. There are millions of muslim radicals that support the muslim extreme terrorist.
I would like you to point out to the forum where I have stated anything racist keeping in mind islam is not a race, as much as you try to tell the world that it is. You would also be hard pushed to find anything from me that could be called " anti-muslim". So go on, knock yourself out. I knew you would be the first apologist to make this thread personal. That's all you can do when slapped between the eyes with the truth of the matter. So again, fk you prosser.
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@dustryder
Supporting sharia law does not automatically make you a radical. Shapiro's use of statistics is misleading and he is not to be trusted
They are radical beliefs that are well supported and if you listened to it all you will have heard that these radicals support the extremist 99% in what they are trying to achieve ; a worldwide caliphate.
After the Tsunami in Indonesia more muslims turned radical because they believed that Allah had punished them for "straying" from his laws.
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@keithprosser
Satan in it and its plain that Satan is a loyal servant of God, albeit a high-status one and he and god are almost matey!As a mere servant, Satan can only act against Job because God grants him the power to do so, which God does seemingly for no reason other than the bragging rights.
Yes already pointed out. Your good at doing that. You either state the fkn obvious or repeat what someone has already said.
I suppose it's intended to show how a good yhwhistic Hebrew should behave in the face of ill-fortune.
No, it was simply to prove himself who was boss , who had more influence and power of the two. It was a fkn wager at the end of the day not a lesson in how to pick yourself up and brush yourself off after losing everything you own and all you children.
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@Dr.Franklin
The fall created suffering,
Have you read the story of Job or not? This was god's doing if you read it correctly. It was instigated by god, the fall isn't even mentioned and satan who had once been made a pariah and forced to crawl around on his belly was now sitting down after his leisurely sojourn chatting and having wagers with god.
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The Book of Job at its beginning, Job seems to be a book about human suffering. By its conclusion, the true subject of the book emerges: God’s sovereignty.
Oh yes , JOB! One of gods faithfuls treated like shite for a bet and to prove a point. House collapses killing all of Jobs children, no worries, he can have others. All his livestock killed, no problem , he can get more. His house is destroyed, no matter, he can build another. This god didn't let up did he. One would have thought the murder of all his children by this psychopathic jealous god would have sufficed.
Why wasn't the wager about converting a sinner to the path of righteousness.?
It doesn't go unnoticed either that satan has been walking around free as a bird doing his thing one minute and the next he's having a laugh and joke and good ole' chinwag and betting with god who is faithful or not to whom. Tell me, what is worse than losing a child? Never mind ALL of ones children
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@disgusted
I asked what point you were trying to make with that mumbojombo above . I can see you don't have one now though.
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Repeatedly quoted and requoted, the phrase is often used by apologists when radical Islam bubbles to the surface.
In this 6 minute video that myth is finally put to rest. Interesting is the fact that this person quotes the well respected Pew Research Centre as his source.
The Myth of the Tiny Radical Muslim Minority https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg&t=114s
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@disgusted
We "could have" had rabbit for lunch if the dog didn't stop for a crap.If my aunt had balls she "could have" been my uncle.If the volcanologist had found seawater in the pacific it "could" prove that the volcano never erupted.The word "could" is a one size fits all for anything you claim without supporting evidence.The moon "could" be a spy station for alien lizards.
What's your point, sea slug?
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@keithprosser
I don't know if that is what you had in mind.
Like I have said. The first I heard of the Thera eruption theory was over 30 years ago.
I have stretched myself and read your link dated 2002. It's not over 30 years old and I imaging it (the programm Moses, which is presented by Jeremy Bowen, the former Middle East correspondent, will be broadcast on BBC1 on Dec 1) was rehash of the earlier programm I mentioned using todays computer garphics for effect https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1412815/Biblical-plagues-and-parting-of-Red-Sea-caused-by-volcano.html Some 30+years earlier.
Fresh evidence that the Biblical plagues and the parting of the Red Sea were natural events rather than myths or miracles is to be presented in a new BBC documentary.
Moses, which will be broadcast next month, will suggest that much of the Bible story can be explained by a single natural disaster, a huge volcanic eruption on the Greek island of Santorini in the 16th century BC.
Using computer-generated imagery pioneered in Walking With Dinosaurs, the programme tells the story of how Moses led the Hebrews out of Egypt after a series of plagues had devastated the country. But it also uses new scientific research to argue that many of the events surrounding the exodus could have been triggered by the eruption, which would have been a thousand times more powerful than a nuclear bomb.
Dr Daniel Stanley, an oceanographer who has found volcanic shards in Egypt that he believes are linked to the explosion, tells the programme: "I think it would have been a frightening experience. It would have been heard. The blast ash would have been felt."
Computer simulations by Mike Rampino, a climate modeller from New York University, show that the resulting ash cloud could have plunged the area into darkness, as well as generating lightning and hail, two of the 10 plagues.
The cloud could have also reduced the rainfall, causing a drought. If the Nile had then been poisoned by the effects of the eruption, pollution could have turned it red, as happened in a recent environmental disaster in America.
The same pollution could have driven millions of frogs on to the land, the second plague. On land the frogs would die, removing the only obstacle to an explosion of flies and lice - the third and fourth plagues.
The flies could have transmitted fatal diseases to cattle (the fifth plague) and boils and blisters to humans (the sixth plague).
The hour-long documentary argues that even the story of the parting of the Red Sea, which allowed Moses to lead the Hebrews to safety while the pursuing Egyptian army was drowned, may have its origins in the eruption.
It repeats the theory that "Red Sea" is a mistranslation of the Sea of Reeds, a much shallower swamp.
Computer simulations show that the Santorini eruption could have triggered a 600ft-high tidal wave, travelling at about 400 miles an hour, which would have been 6ft high and a hundred miles long when it reached the Egyptian delta.
Such an event would have been remembered for generations, and may have provided the inspiration for the story.
Jean-Claude Bragard, the director, said: "Sifting through the latest historical research and utilising new archaeological tools, we have been able to find a surprising amount of circumstantial evidence for the Biblical tales."
The same pollution could have driven millions of frogs on to the land, the second plague. On land the frogs would die, removing the only obstacle to an explosion of flies and lice - the third and fourth plagues.
The flies could have transmitted fatal diseases to cattle (the fifth plague) and boils and blisters to humans (the sixth plague).
The hour-long documentary argues that even the story of the parting of the Red Sea, which allowed Moses to lead the Hebrews to safety while the pursuing Egyptian army was drowned, may have its origins in the eruption.
It repeats the theory that "Red Sea" is a mistranslation of the Sea of Reeds, a much shallower swamp.
Computer simulations show that the Santorini eruption could have triggered a 600ft-high tidal wave, travelling at about 400 miles an hour, which would have been 6ft high and a hundred miles long when it reached the Egyptian delta.
Such an event would have been remembered for generations, and may have provided the inspiration for the story.
Jean-Claude Bragard, the director, said: "Sifting through the latest historical research and utilising new archaeological tools, we have been able to find a surprising amount of circumstantial evidence for the Biblical tales."
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I don't think it's worth trying to explain how the plagues of Egypt could be natural phenomenon -
No because I have already said on this thread here>>. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/2135?page=1&post_number=3
Post 2
-> @Stephen wrote: It was more than likely that the Volcano that erupted on Thera island in Aegean- called today Santorini - caused all the other 9 "plagues".This very plausible theory was put forward over 30 years ago - I just forget by whom.
The theory goes that once the sky was darkened for months on end caused by the eruption of Thera this then led to all the other "plagues" .
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@keithprosser
However, while this evidence certainly adds weight to the historical accuracy of elements of the Biblical account, it can’t be used to “prove” that every detail of the Exodus story in the Bible is true.
WOW!!!! You are so fkn good at stating the bleedin' obvious. At least you are now moving your goal posts and appear to be in some agreement that there just maybe some "historical accuracy of elements of the biblical accounts", instead of your usual outright dismissal of anything biblical because "wiki" says so.
My theory is that the Egyptian episode was written (or re-written) during the babylonian exile to serve as a parallel to the Israelites current state, ie prisoners in a foreign land.
Then it would have been much easier and accurate and truthful to write about their curran state instead of inventing what you call a "parallel". And if it were "paralel" this goes even further to indicate a possibility that there were Israelites in Egypt slaves or not. i.e it had to be "parallel" with something. They did go to Egypt after all on the invite of Pharaoh at one point; as long as they were 'herdsmen' and not 'shepherds'.
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@Dr.Franklin
10. DarknessThe volcano caused darkness in the half of Egypt, But the Israelites didn't have to worry
It was more than likely that the Volcano that erupted on Thera island in Aegean- called today Santorini - caused all the other 9 "plagues".
This very plausible theory was put forward over 30 years ago - I just forget by whom.
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@3RU7AL
MY, MY MY, you do like to bury your embarrassment extremely quickly as possible don't you.
You are conflating opinion with fact. Opinion and fact are mutually exclusive categories.
That is your opinion and it won't hide you embarrassment. Your a clown that forced your extra large boots into your mouth and that has been hit with his own stick.
You could have put all your bull shi'ite in one post. Were the facts from a MUSLIM scholars and a MUSLIM king just to much for you to swallow. Oh dear, there there, and never mind. Islam was and still is a barbaric ideology that will never be compatible with the west.
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