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@keithprosser
Which is extremely unfortunate for muslims who actually do want to actaully live in a peaceful integrated western society.You mean the 'moderates' you've been denying exist for months?
IF I MEANT "MODERATES",I WOULD HAVE SAID SO.
And again you are purposefully misquoting what it is I have said about "moderate ISLAM " not moderate muslims. And you have also ignored the FACT, there are many muslims MORE QUALIFIED THAN YOU, to say if or not there is such a thing as moderate ISLAM. So fk you again prosser.
I have asked you many times to explain what you believe "moderate islam" is and what other "types" of islam there are, and or what a "moderate muslim" actually is. But you have ignored those requests as you have my requests for you to show Islam in a good light.
But seeing that YOU ARE moving the conversation away from the one that you are losing and onto what is or is not what you call a "moderate muslim", watch this clip and tell me if these are "moderate muslims".
Moderate Muslims try to defend the death penalty for apostasy, adultery, homosexuality,
I hope you stick around long enough for Omar 2345 to explain to you why it is that I " should be disliking Islam"., It should be interesting to hear his reasoning behind this.
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@zedvictor4
And the U.K is a secular society.
this means that the state's governing cannot be the result of the policies and beliefs of any organized religion and that no religious leader has automatic political authority.
Not where Islam is concerned. Which is extremely unfortunate for muslims who actually do want to actaully live in a peaceful integrated western society.
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@TheRealNihilist
Your very first comment on this was about Muslims sending hate mail:
yes so?
CONTEXT you buffon.
This thread, created by keith prosser is about "no go areas". He started this thread with a quote,:my quote, go and see for yourself then you will get the CONTEXT,
My first post was in context to prossers comments AFTER he had quoted me.
I mention muslims in CONTEXT of the thread created by prosser. I have said when muslims become great in number, they start demanding change to their own way of living. The mail is one of a few example of muslims, YES MUSLIM demanding change once they become large in population until they claim an whole area as "their own" and make it clear to all non muslims that they are not welcome in "THEIR AREA". It is true and it is fact.
Are you suggesting that the "hate mail" asking/ordering a owner of a food outlet to remove the word "pig" from the name of her outlet wasn't sent by anyone of the 90% muslim community? It appears that the woman had no problems over the last year and a half since she started her business. Are you suggesting that this mail came from what appears to be the remaining 10% of the population. Listen, you buffon, there are hundreds of food outlets including restaurants and pubs in the uk that have all kinds of animal names and this is the first time to my knowledge that one has been asked/ ordered to change part,parts or all of its name with or without a cavete attached.
Muslims are protesting in Birmingham demanding that lessons in homsexualtiy not be taught to their children " because one cannot be homsexual and muslim". These teachers have had death threats and threats of rape made against them by MUSLIMS!!!!! these teachers are not turning up for work for fear of being assaulted and or killed by these MUSLIM protesters. i.e. they are demanding another was of living. On this issue I happen to agree with the MUSLIMS, but not because it has anything to do with their religion, but because I am totally against these homosexual lessons being taught to very young primary school children. Will you be calling me a "homophobe" ?
I also mention Muslims in context with the "no go areas" claim. And the simple reason I have done this is because IT IS FKN MUSLIMS WHO ARE MAKING THE CLAIM THAT CERTAIN AREAS ARE "THEIR OWN".
It very quite simple really even for someone with the caliber of your own buffoonery.
I could hardly NOT say who are making claims of places being "their area" without saying who is making the FKN claim could I, you dozy BUFFOON!!!
And that is why I have mentioned muslims. No go away unless you have some other crackpot accusation of racism, "islamophobia" or bigotry to put to me.
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@TheRealNihilist
He dislike Muslims when he should be disliking Islam.
Look at that. You are right and wrong all at the same time. I have made my position very clear many times, omar, and as recent as post 29 above. That is only two post above your post 31. It is Islam I have a problem with and not muslims per se. Or all muslims. I don't doubt for a second that there are lovely , peaceful law abiding muslims who do want to integrate into a western society. I have never argued different.
No my friend. It is with the islamic ideology where my problems lay.
Would you be so kind to explain to prosser and anyone interested, why it is that I " should be disliking Islam".
Your very first comment on this was about Muslims sending hate mail:
Yes. You should read the whole context, but I have seen from past experience that your inability to keep up with a thread is diablocal, including your own. Are you saying it wasn't from the 90% muslim community asking for the word "pig" to be removed from a food outlets name. It hasn't been proven yet I agree. But will we ever get the results of the police investigation? I doubt it, unless of course it was sent by a white far right supporter and then it will be all over ever fkn media outlet in the world, won't it.
Listen, there hundreds of food outlets including restaurants and pubs that have quirky animal names including pigs.This is first time TO MY KNOWLEDGE that a food outlet has been asked or ordered to remove part or parts or all of it's name by "community" that is 90% muslim. AND, with sly and veiled caveat.
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@3RU7AL
We also have pretty reliable data about the religious beliefs of the ancient Sumerians and Romans and from early Shinto and Taoism (which are highly animistic).
Sumerians & Romans......etc etc.
and they are classed as "very primitive humans", are they? https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/2059?
And they "had invented god just after climbing down from the trees", did they? https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/2059?page=2
I wonder , when these "primitive" Romans and "primitive" Sumerians "climbed down from the trees" did they know that they were Roman and Sumerian. Did the Sumerians ask , where the fk did that massive Sunmmarian ziggurat come from? Did the Romans ask who the fk put that Colosseum there!?
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@disgusted
Deleting one post and replacing it with another without notice is just a lie. But as we've seen that's all you have.
No it is called E_D_I_T_I_N_G . One has only a matter of minutes to delete, correct and or completely edit a post. I made a typo and I corrected it.
There are at least millions of Gods.
Can you name them,sea worm?
And how can you say that when you have made it clear to us that you don't believe gods even exist. You say god was invented by "very primitive humans", but haven't proved it yet.
You are determined to derail someone else's thread and have no intention of addressing the op . How you get away with such vile disruptive behaviour is scandalous. How come the mods do not see you for what you are and ban you permanently.
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@disgusted
There are at least millions of Gods.
Can you name them,sea worm?
And how can you say that when you have made it clear to us that you don't believe gods even exist. You say god was invented by "very primitive humans", but haven't proved it yet.
You are determined to derail someone else's thread and have no intention of addressing the op . How you get away with such vile disruptive behaviour is scandalous. How come the mods do not see you for what you are.
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@disgusted
Stevie Wonder, do humans invent gods?
Nope. That doesn't prove your claim that "VERY primitive humans invented god"
You have absolutely no interest in addressing prossers op have you, is that because it is far too much of an intelligent subject for you to take part in , sea slug.
Now, where is your evidence that "VERY primitive humans invented god".
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You don't get to use yourself as standard
that is you who is doing that but you cannot see it. I wouldn't expect anything else from you though. I can tell by prossers reponses, questions and indeed some of his more intelligent threads that you could never live long enough to be of equal intelligence to prosser.
As far as I am concerned, you don't have the intelligence of a embryonic sea worm and you never will have.
You have absolutely no interest in addressing prossers op have you, is that because it is far too much of an intelligent subject for you to take part, sea slug.
Now, where is your evidence that "VERY primitive humans invented god"
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@disgusted
If they hadn't invented them they would've had nothing to believe in.
But you haven't proven that they "invented them" have you? let alone believed in them.
Where is your fkn evidence?
And I didn't bring belief or believes or believe into the thread, that was prosser.
But you have absolutely no intention of addressing his op have you. Again you are using someone else's thread to try to intimidate and attack me, please knock yourself out. It bothers me not one iota, sea slug. Why cannot these mods see you for the absolute vile bastard that you are.
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@disgusted
Now, where is your evidence that "VERY primitive humans invented god"Where did you dream that up?
I didn't dream it up. . You are obviously extremely embarrassed by what you have claimed and been called out on. when it is there clear as day for all to see. But we are used to you denying to have said something.
post 17.
Now, where is your evidence that "VERY primitive humans invented god"?
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@keithprosser
Can we agree a definition of 'very primitive man'?
Well haven't you already defined that when you said:
I think it's pretty safe to assume that humans have believed in gods (of some sort) for a very long time - maybe since we came down from the trees.
And he says "invented god, " not just believed.
I have said : Homo erectus,that had "came down", first appeared at around 1.9 million years ago. Did he invent god?
Sometimes I think he doesn't like you or me very much.
Wrong again prosser. I don't mind you or your buffoonery..... most of the time.
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@disgusted
You don't get to use yourself as standard
that is you who is doing that but you cannot see it. I wouldn't expect anything else from you though. I can tell by prossers reponses, questions and indeed some of his more intelligent threads that you could never live long enough to be of equal intelligence to prosser.
As far as I am concerned, you don't have the intelligence of a embryonic sea worm and you never will have.
You have absolutely no interest in addressing prossers op have you, It that because it is far too much of an intelligent subject for you to take part, sea slug.
Now, where is your evidence that "VERY primitive humans invented god"
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@TheRealNihilist
From what I am gathering is that he doesn't like Muslims
Islam. I don't like Islam.
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I was correct as you posted the muslim takeover of Savile Town.'Takeover' is a loaded term, don't you think?
No I don't. If there are 90% muslims in a town of a christian country then it is no exaggeration to say that the town had been overtaken by Islam and muslims. Or would you prefer me to use the term ' ethnically cleansed ' of non muslims and replaced by muslims.
Savile Town is clearly a hot-spot in a demographic map, but it's not very big.
It is not the only "hot spot" and its size has no bearing on the matter. It has been overtaken by muslims. Muslims have replaced the indigenous non muslims.
I have no idea of the numbers but there must be hundreds of similar sized hot spots that are 90%+ 'white british'!
I hope so. This is country did start off a white british country after all. And don't you fkn dare call me a white supremist
it is more like they are being forced by circumstances into run down and dead-end ghettos.
forced by whom? How are they being forced. Did anyone force the muslim Home secretaries father to buy property in a dead -end ghetto in Bristol
Demonising or telling the truth?You can't claim your aim is to present in a fair or rounded picture of Islam and Muslims when you post.
Aside from the fact that YOU started this thread, let me tell you; you have every chance to present islam in a good light. I have asked you many times to do this, but you haven't. You side step all of my points simply because you cannot argue against them.
You're unlikely to link to this video!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPJnj345j2U
I don't see your point. It is two cricketers playing an electronic game and having fun. What are you trying to prove. If this thread was about the brilliant England Cricket Teams performance against India the other day I may well have posted that link. But it isn't is you buffoon.
And I have to remind you that YOU started this thread as a direct attack on me as a result of what I have said on another thread. And now you don't seem to be able to cope.
There is absolutely nothing in this thread that you have posted that shows Islam in a good light. You have countered nothing I have said, in fact you have supported exactly what I have said.
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"for years this has been our area, it is a no go area for black people white people, we are Paki and you are not coming into Birchills man. You come here and you're dead"That sounds racial, not religious. Normally you are careful to distinguish them!
You didn't listen to the vid did you. It is about "everything that has gone wrong with Islam" and the " paki" goes on to say ,
"they" (black and white people) don't respect our religion" so they hadn't better come into our area "
But you don't want to hear that at all do you. Why don't you want listen to what muslims themselves are saying. Like I have said I wouldn't call you complacent, because you do know what is going on here but won't/can't admit it to yourself because you have invested a far too much time defending this barbaric death cult that is cloaked in religion, that you cannot change your mind at this late stage... I would call you a man in total denial and of being purposefully ignorant of the facts, among a few other things.
so let us have a few examples of government/politicians setting up muslims as scapegoats? And can you name any of these muslims that have been set up as scapegoats/?That isn't how it works and you know it.
So that is no examples then, beside the fact that muslims hold some of the highest offices in the FKN country.
The constant diet of anti-Muslim propaganda has had an profound effect.
many of those videos concerning places you wouldn't take your daughter are made and posted by MUSLIMS you absolute clown!!! I didn't make them. I don't use threatening words and behaviour towards black and whites. No, that was muslims.
You are part of a network sharing stories, videos and links that are useful for demonising Islam and Muslims
Posting the truth.you mean. Are you saying I should shut up and go away? I posted those links and videos as evidence of my claim, YOU added to that by letting the world (or at least 3 or 4 other people) that I was correct as you posted the muslim takeover of Savile Town AND You don't fkn like it BECAUSE IT IS ALL fkn TRUE.
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@disgusted
Poor little Stevie wants so much to convince himself that he's smart even though he has never learned anything.
That doesn't prove your claim either , you vile sea slug. And you will never live long enough to even become a dunce never mind "smart".
At least prosser does actually possess intelligence. Now , where is your evidence that proves " VERY primitive humans invented god"?
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@keithprosser
I think it's pretty safe to assume that humans have believed in gods (of some sort) for a very long time -
Yes, something that even sea sponges understand.
maybe since we came down from the trees.
Stop being silly FFS. Are you trying to tell me that chimpanzees believed in or invented god. These apes that share 96 percent of our DNA spend a considerable amount of their time on the ground. They have managed to use crude tools. There is no evidence that the Neanderthals invented god either or the first homosapien, i.e. "VERY primitive humans" and Homo erectus,that had climbed down, first appeared at around 1.9 million years ago. Did he invent god?
But I don't think it's possible to know for sure what people believed before writing was invented and we have some text to study.
Are you being contrary and disingenuous simply for the sake of it. I have asked the amoeba to support his silly claim and he has failed to do so. You have failed to support his claim too. Guessing and betting the farm account for nothing as evidence. Let the amoeba prove his claim or simply retract it
because as you say it is impossible to know and what you imagine and guess mean nothing and fail to support his claim.
I'd bet the farm we believed in gods 10,000 years ago
More than likely, but 10,000 years ago is not " VERY primitive man " by any standards, is it . It isn't 1.9 million years ago either is it.
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@disgusted
So that is a yet another of your stupid claims gone unqualified and unproven.
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@disgusted
Even very primitive humans invented gods,And do you have any examples of "primitives" - that would be man in his very early stages - inventing gods?Cave paintings, ritual burial, read some books you'll be amazed how much information is available.
Cave painting and "ritual" burials are not examples of man - " VERY primitive man" inventing god. No these are just paintings of everyday things the primitives seen around them and are no indication at all that these were signs of " VERY primitives" inventing god.
As for your offering of "ritual burial" (1) it, doesn't prove anything other than someone died and was buried (2) does not offer a single piece of evidence that proves " VERY primitive men" are inventing god. No, this is proof that these are just a holes in the ground where the - usually - dead are placed and covered over. and "read some books" doesn't offer anything that supports you ridiculous claim, either.
Would you like another try, sea slug?
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But you have said yourself : "I don't fear Britain becoming an Islamic state, but I do fear it becoming an un-liberal and intolerant one". So tell me do you actually believe that an liberal and tolerant islam exists?Of course not. What I fear - I thought this was clear but you might have the wrong end of the stick - is that British society will become illiberal and intolerant as an over-reaction to a threat that is more preceived than real.
That's right, there is not a "type of islam" that is liberal and tolerant, is there? Yet you insist even in the face of your own example of Dewsbury which as suffered a 90% muslim takeover and along with it demands that the remaining 10% change their ways, and in the face of the respected Pew Research Groups findings, you say, that there is no reason to fear an islamic takeover. Now who's being " a one". Your that much of "one" that you will soon be a two.
Now you will be dieing to charge me with complacency! I am not complacent about the threat posed by radicl Islam
These are not radicals in this video..... are they? These are what you usually call "moderate muslims".
here watch it listen for yourself what they have to say. Listen to the person doing the voiceover, it is 10 minutes long.
"for years this has been our area, it is a no go area for black people white people, we are Paki and you are not coming into Birchills man. You come here and you're dead"
This is just one of many videos were MUSLIMS are claiming areas of the UK as "their own". I wouldn't call you complacent, because you do know what is going on here but won't/can't admit it to yourself because you have spent to long defending this barbaric death cult that is cloaked in religion, that you cannot change your mind at this late stage... I would call you a man in total denial and of being purposefully ignorant of the facts.
but it's not my priority at this time nor in this place - that seems to be your job!
So you won't be having a day out with the family in Birchills , then. Why ever not?
you will be dieing to charge me with complacency!
"A fervent minority will displace a complacent majority". I forget who said those words but whoever it was knew exactly what they were talking about.
Populist politicians and demgagogues thrive on creating scapegoats,and the Muslims are being set up for it.
so let us have a few examples of government/politicians setting up muslims as scapegoats? And can you name any of these muslims that have been set up as scapegoats/?
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@disgusted
Even very primitive humans invented gods,
And do you have any examples of "primitives" - that would be man in his very early stages - inventing gods?
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@Athias
Mopac says :
The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is God.
It is all downhill from there on as far a Mopac's contribution to this thread is concerned. Don't say you didn't ask for it !
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You are a one! I don't know how many times you have to be told that I am not going to submit to islam nor do I - nor will I - give it assistance.
But you have said yourself : "I don't fear Britain becoming an Islamic state, but I do fear it becoming an un-liberal and intolerant one". So tell me do you actually believe that an liberal and tolerant islam exists? is islam being "liberal & tolerant at Parkside school and other schools.
I am a committed secularist and the prospect of an Islamicised Britain is abhorrent to me.
Stop telling lies. You know the so called religion of Islam is not separate from state. You come out all guns blazing and firing from the hip whenever islam is questioned , scrutinized and criticized.Yet you call it "backward", because it is! https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/1707
However IMO there is no realistic scenario that produces an Islamicised UK for generations.
So you will simply ignore and reject the findings of the well respected Pew Research Group Europe’s Growing Muslim Population
Muslims are projected to increase as a share of Europe’s population – even with no future migration
Muslims are projected to increase as a share of Europe’s population – even with no future migration
https://www.pewforum.org/2017/11/29/europes-growing-muslim-population/ ? But no one should be supprised by your attitude, should they. You may well be dead and buried when shariah comes to your town. So you don't care do you, it won't affect you will it.
All I can do is try to ameliorate the effect of your inflamatory postings on DA,
"ameliorate" Now there's a word. You mean play down anything I say as not being as bad as it really is. You - are - a - joke.
inflammatory postings
Telling it like it is, is what you mean. Have I caused muslim parents to go onto the street to threaten and intimidate parents teachers at a schools in Birmingham that now these teachers and schools have exclusion zones and need round the clock police protection ? Don't make me laugh!
Have I threatened a woman with intimidation of herself and her customers she refuses refuses to change the name of her business? Don't make me laugh!
Have I made videos of muslims making threats specifically to people not to "come into our area" or they will be killed.
"for years this has been our area, it is a no go area for black people white people, we are Paki and you are not coming into Birchills [ Wolverhampton] man. You come here and your dead"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzNC4RY-3n4 . Don't make me laugh!
Yes prosser, I can just see you walking the streets of Birchills with your daughters and grandchildren at night!
Have I complained and caused the sacking of a disabled old man from his only job at Asda and FORCED!!! ( that's bend the fkn knee) him to apologise for simply re -tweeted a joke by Billy Connolly about- Islam AND christianity IN DEWSBURY!!! ?https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/why-was-a-disabled-grandad-sacked-by-asda-for-sharing-a-billy-connolly-clip/. Don't make me laugh!
Oh, and let clear this up, you say above:
Populist politicians and demgagogues thrive on creating scapegoats,and the Muslims are being set up for it.
so let us have a few examples of government/politicians setting up muslims as scapegoats? And can you name any of these muslims that have been set up as scapegoats/?
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And therein lies the sad and sorry problem with all appeasing apologist for Islam like yourselfThere you go again!
OH behave yourself. Telling us all this situation is government's fault and muslims being "scapegoats" is apologising for Islam. Whether you see it that way or not. Did the government train the Manchester bomber? Did they fund the London bus bombings. Did government force the population of Dewsbury to become 90% islamic!!!!? NO!! THEY FKN ALLOWED IT!!!! YOU APOLOGETIC BUFFOON!!!
The line between toleration and appeasement is a difficult one to navigate.
No it isn't. We have laws that should be abided by ALL who choose to live here. But we have muslims demanding a different way of life that conflict with western society. I have said it before, they love our milk and honey but as soon as they gain a foothold in large numbers they begin to demand another way of living. Or have you forgotten this already ?
Cafe in Bradford receives hate mail for calling itself Greedy Pigs
What about the Birmingham school where a Headmistress and her staff are being threatened with death and rape if they don't stop teaching homsexual subjects?
Of course you have forgotten them, you don't want to see and and neither do you believe it.You are an apologetic coward.
I want peace, but not peace at any price.
NIce to hear that. But I don't believe you. You will sign away all rights and privileges hard fought for and hard earned by previous indigenous generations as long as Islam doesn't come anywhere near where you live and it doesn't affect you. I believe you are a coward who would sell your granny to the zoo if it meant that you didn't have to live in an Islamifide area of YOUR OWN country. You have practically admitted above that you wouldn't mind Britain becoming Islamic. I can only assume that you mean you don't mind it becoming one of the "types of islam" that you mention on this now abandoned thread of yours. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/1707 A "type" that you didn't stick around to explain, and a "type" that doesn't really exist. You are joke prosser.
I worry that you want a war now, while 'we' are strong and 'the enemy' weak.
Oh stop . I don't want any war . That will be Islam that calls for war against the non believer, you absolute fool. I haven't asked anyone to fly a plane into a building.
Whatever problems there are in Savile Town or Bradford,
Which starts with you already trying to play down the fact that the 90% take over by muslims doesn't contribute nothing in any way to "Whatever problems there are in Savile Town or Bradford".
Britain is not Kosovo or Rwanda - yet. i hope it stays that way.
As you so rightly have driven into me on a few occasions now " islam is here and it isn't going anywhere". What you didn't mention was that this same Islam destroys societies wherever it sets its foot and gains hold, that it poisons the minds of children, it threatens the freedom of expression and free speech and other freedoms too. That it is the religion that exhibits intolerance to ALL and any who are not muslim. That is stupefies and stultifies the young in its madrassas, trains its adherents in violence, continually calls for jihad making it a cult of death and suicide and murder and does this world wide. *And causes the indigenous population to cower and submit and bend the knee.....
.....forgive me if I have left anything out, *but that is YOU prosser.
i hope it stays that way.
Hope? That too will be taken away from you sooner rather than later, and with your assistance and willingness to submit to this abhorrent ideology. You are a joke prosser, you really are.
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@keithprosser
I don't see it happening in the foreseeable future.
And therein lies the sad and sorry problem with all appeasing apologist for Islam like yourself. They refuse to see it and don't care as long as it is not affecting them directly and only care about themselves.
Be assured that if I did think Islam was becoming over-influential I would do whatever I could to roll it back.
No you wouldn't, What are you doing to roll back the takeover of Savile Town now known colloquially as the Islamic State of Dewsbury. Oh I forgot, this isn't happening to you in your neck of the woods is it.
However I think the prospect of major social strife is far greater and more immediate.
Typical liberal left wing approach to a problem where it is believed can be solved by throwing money at it, is what I believe you are getting at here. You mentioned the 70's earlier. Do you remember the Handsworth riots? Do you remember the excuses that were being given , it was the usual bollocks about poverty and lack of education and there being nowhere for the yooooof to go after school and at night. government threw millions at this problem and fkall changed. Government are giving billions to islam causes here in the UK , what are the results,more fk rights and demands from islam are the results.
So you suggesting that it is the fault government's that large communities of muslims prefer to live amongst their own kind; other non English speaking muslims and prefer to vote in their own muslim representatives.
At least two 'homegrown' MUSLIM terrorists came from the town you mentioned Savile Town yes these lovely pleasant "normal Yorkshire lads” Talha Asmal and his muslim friend Hassan Munshi were being openly mourned in Dewsbury after blowing themselves up in suicide attacks. Do you believe that it was the last remaining 10% white English that were mourning these animals doing their Islamic duty?
Populist politicians and demagogues thrive on creating scapegoats,and the Muslims are being set up for it.
Oh ffs stop it! that is a perfect example of you apologising for fkn islam AGAIN. it was all governments since Blair that invited these people to come here to out breed the indigenous population by billions to 1, and now we, the working and middle class are reaping what these elite bastards and apologists have sown.
That is why I do fear Britain becoming un-liberal and intolerant.
Which is exactly what you are going to get.
Europe’s Growing Muslim Population
Muslims are projected to increase as a share of Europe’s population – even with no future migration
Muslims are projected to increase as a share of Europe’s population – even with no future migration
I can see you abandoning this thread that you have started before long. Along with these two threads your started and deserted.
So much for "bridge building " and "fitting in" eh prosser.
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@keithprosser
Does this letter seem to you to have been written by a Muslim?
I will tell you what this letter seems to me prosser. It seems to me that this 'letter' has been dictated by some illiterate Bangladeshi or Pakistani who cannot speak a word of English but is no doubt a prominent member of the muslim community and it has been translated verbatim into English. What's your point?
I wonder what this 'community' means by - customers will be discouraged from buying and consuming even the fish & chips" ? I wonder how they will be "discouraged" considering that this lady has been trading for 16 months without any problems?
The late great atheist himself- Christopher Hitchens - had this to say many years ago now;
" I beseech you. Resist it while you still can and before the right to complain is taken away from you, which will be the next thing. You will be told you can't complain, because you are " islamophobic". The term is already being introduced in the culture as if it were an example of race hatred or bigotry. Watch out for these symptoms,they are symptoms of surrender" He goes on to say words to the effect that the ones who will open the gates for these "barbarians" will be your own. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EYg8Tgrh0o
And here we have you, apologizing for Islam at every fkn chance you get.
4minutes in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGDeWdGoCVc
The last thing I want is an Islamic Republic of Britain.
I don't fear Britain becoming an Islamic state, but I do fear it becoming an un-liberal and intolerant one.
You mean like the Islamic State of Iran?
Make your fkn mind up you apologetic clown. You do realise that Islam doesn't do democracy and liberalism is right out of the window.
Oh and listen to these lovely, well integrated and peaceful "moderate muslims" chasing police out of 'their area".
Your an absolute joke prosser. I hope you never wake up until this nightmare is literally on your own doorstep and it is all far too late for you to do something about it.
Author warns against 'No Go' Zones
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I don't fear Britain becoming an Islamic state, but I do fear it becoming an un-liberal and intolerant one.
Coming to a town near you.
Cafe in Bradford receives hate mail for calling itself Greedy Pigs
I have told you many times now prosser , once muslims become a large community, it is then they start demanding that YOU change YOUR ways. I noticed this letter is signed of "the community" and not the Islamic Community, I wonder why that is?
But no one seems to know where these no-go areas are,
And if you had read what I wrote properly, you would have seen that I wrote: >>>>>maybe they should be called - Zones or areas where white non muslims prefer not to go for a day out with their daughters.<<<<< So fk you again prosser.
How Sharia Law is Coming to a Neighborhood Near You
"They are not just physical localities in the suburbs of major…cities. They’re also a mindset.” The consequences for blasphemy in Islam are severe, as the victims of the Charlie Hebdo massacre tragically learned. But the use of Islamophobia as a cudgel to beat the rest of society into compliance takes on less fatal yet still disturbing guises".
An image full of claims about Muslims in the UK has gone viral on social media. A lot of them are incorrect, and we’ve looked at the facts.
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@keithprosser
If you hadn't before, you have really gone off topic now!
That's right. I hadn't before you decided to put your size nines into your mouth you pompous penis. IT WAS YOU who couldn't resist to go on the attack. IT WAS YOU that brought "ethnicity"into the thread. IT WAS YOU that brought "religious identity" and IT WASN'T ME who brought the subject of genetics into the fkn thread! so like I have said , fk you prosser.
you have really gone off topic now!
That's right again, my you do catch on fkn fast. After your unprovoked tirade rant against me, where you have yet again called me a racist Islamophobe elbeit veiled in the disguise as "70' xenophobia", I felt I had to defend my post and myself. There are one or two thick fkrs on this forum prosser : don't kid yourself that I am one of them. I seen where you were heading with this shite>>
Would you agree that 'Jewish' is not a religious identity nor an ethnic identity but something of both (or neither?).
It was nice to see that you got the answer you didn't' want.
Oh and please forgive me. At post50 I wrote:
Even the homosexual community is licking the arse of Islam when they know for a fact that Islam calls for their death.This is why there has been no face to face counter protest at Parkfield community school in Saltley, Birmingham where a teacher, doing her job of teaching homosexual lessons has had death threats and rape threats. No, these homosexual cowards haven't gone to the school in support of this teacher and her staff who are now living in fear are are failing to turn up for work. A few homosexuals though thought they could turn up in the dead of night to tie a few homsexual colours to the school railing, they were discovered and bombarded with eggs and told 'never to return'.If this had been a Christian mob protesting against lessons of homsexuality these little homosexual pansies would have been there spitting in there faces and the Christians would have ended up in court on charges of "homophobia". AND YOU CANNOT DENY THAT Fkn FACT. or have you forgotten about the Christian couple who wouldn't bake a cake for homosexual same sex marriage? I have heard recently that Christians have joined in the protest alongside muslims . They wouldn't have ever done this if the muslims had not taken up the issue nearly 8 weeks before. I happen to agree with the muslims on this issue, but not because it is against Islam to be homosexual and muslim, but because these babies are far too young to be taught this crap at that age.
I have to correct that above.
It turns out it was one single solitary christian lay preacher and one Jew turned up on one single occasion. The homosexual community ( yes they have their own community keith, how's that for causing division) reported that it was "Christians and Jews" too. But I think that this may be false simply so the homosexual ' community 'didn't want to appear to be singling out muslims only. The truth is they are shit scared of muslims, and who wouldn't be in their situation? This protest was started by muslims because they say "one cannot be homosexual AND muslim". Isalm finds homsexuality abhorrrant.
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Stephen is usually very against thread hijacking, but I guess he could't resist it!
I didn't hijack the thread. You have done that with you attack on me. You should actually read what I was responding to. I didn't bring "genetics"into this thread or mention them in the same sentence as religion. I didn't even mention the fact that it was you who actaully brought "ethnicity" and "religious identity" and mentioned them in the same sentence.
It was you who wrote this below wasn't it? You must think I was too stupid to see where you was heading with this snide sleight of hand: post 30.
Would you agree that 'Jewish' is not a religious identity nor an ethnic identity but something of both (or neither?).
See prosser, fkd again by your own big foot in mouth.
But its not the 70s or 80s any more and recently xenophobia has re-appeared in a different for
Your right. This is not skinheads and Jamaicans and West Indians battling it out in Erdington High Street or Soho Road Handsworth or the roller rink in Hockley. Those places have now fell to muslims as have many towns have and even the blacks have moved out for the best part. this is about a muslim takeover as seems to be happening everywhere except china where they are having none of it. The time you are referring to was unadulterated racism from BOTH FKN sides, with very few deaths and IT WAS to do with skin colour. What's your point? You are desperate for muslims to be classed as a race because then there can be no questioning, scrutinizing and more importantly for YOU, no criticizing of Islam, it will be a crime to do so and you will be there as always licking the arse that wants you dead. Even the homosexual community is licking the arse of Islam when they know for a fact that Islam calls for their death.
This is why there has been no face to face counter protest at Parkfield community school in Saltley, Birmingham where a teacher, doing her job of teaching homosexual lessons has had death threats and rape threats. No, these homosexual cowards haven't gone to the school in support of this teacher and her staff who are now living in fear are are failing to turn up for work. A few homsexuals though thoughtthey could turn up in the dead of night to tie a few homsexual colours to the school railing, they were discovered and bombarded with eggs and told 'never to return'. If this had been a christian mob protesting against lessons of homsexuality these littl homsexual panseies would have been ther spitting in there faces ands the christian would have ended up in court on charges of "homophobia". AND YOU CANNOT DENY THAT FUN FACT. or have you forgotten about the christian couple who wouldn't back a cake for homosexual same sex marriage. I have heard recently that christians have joined in the protest alongside muslims . They wouldn't have ever done this if the muslims had not taken up the issue nearly 8 weeks before. I happen to agree with the muslims on this issue, but not because it is against Islam to be homosexual and muslim, but because these babies are far too young to be taught this crap at that age.
There are great swaths of the UK that have been taken over by Muslims. You of course want to deny this take over. You don't care as long as it isn't you left as the only white family left in the street being intimidated.
And just to remind you; on the subject of "genetics" and "religious identity" it is Muslims who believe that their children ARE BORN FKN MUSLIM!
And NO! I didn't resist because my points were , are and still, valid and relevant to the thread. I didn't hijack the thread. You have done that with your attack on me, so fk you prosser.
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@Mopac
I know a clergyman in the church who was sent to seminary in the middle east(The Antiochan Church is actually based in Damascus right now).He was talking to a Muslim Imam over there, and it was brought up that there were good Muslims in The United States, and a town was mentioned that was all Muslim.
I wonder how they managed to become the majority? Mention that to a apologist for Islam and they will argue that you are exaggerating, call you racist and an "islamophobe" some will even call you a xenophobe of old. There are what people are calling no go zones here in the UK, but mention this to an apologist for islam and they will call you an outright liar. Maybe they should simply call them zones where non muslims would not prefer to go for a day out with there daughters.
The Imam responded that they were not good Muslims, because if they were good Muslims they would have already militarily taken over the state.
Indeed , That is exactly what the quran dictates and Islam promotes.
Needless to say, this was a shocking response.
You shouldn't be surprised. We are not even allowed to be angry about it.
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@disgusted
Your posts make no allowance for other's beliefs and yet you demand others show you charity and make allowances for your beliefs, that is hypocritical.
No that is bigotry. Look it up. It is something you should know all about even someone with the mental capacity of a sea sponge knows the difference between what is "hypocritical" & bigotry.
Here you go, I found this in the library for Amoebas
bigotry
/ˈbɪɡətri/
noun
- intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself.
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@TheRealNihilist
What yhwh demanded most was obedience and what made him angry was worshipping any of the other gods.
Yes "gods" PLURAL which is more than one. At last this god can admit to there being other gods whereas theists believe in there being only one . You have to wonder why that is.
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@rosends
(one can't convert into a gene pool).
Try telling that to apologist for Islam. They seem to be totally convinced that Islam is a race. And to criticize, scrutinise and question, or even mock Islam is a racist hate crime against muslims, who are not a race either.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
The first time he ate some , i thought he would melt
LOL Fkn hilarious!! I can't stop laughing.
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@David
For example, Jewish law says to welcome the stranger and give refugees a home,
Even Syrian , or Iranian refugees. Listen. it was probably all very well when populations were small and you would be talking of maybe just a few hundred. NOW we are talking HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of supposed and so called refugees.
So again; Will you accept so called refugees from Saudi Arabia? Syrian? or Iran, in today's climate of world wide Islamic terror?
Jewish law says that debts should be forgiven,
israel is owed debt from countries around the world including African nations. Are you the going to "forgive these countries their debts. The last time I looked it was a Record $158.3 billion in worldwide debts owed to Israel.
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@RoderickSpode
1. God is formed in the image of man.The funny part of this statement is that it's at times suggested that if there is a god, he wouldn't have human traits, or bother with communicating with a mere human on an individual basis.
Not if you look at it from the standpoint of the theist. The gist is that we are made in the image of a god, which wouldn't necessarily include all of his traits and genetic make up and bad habits such as his despot tendencies.
Pt 2
1. God is formed in the image of man.The problem with this of course is that it's a preconceived notion of how a god would be. It's still a very human idea that may have it's roots in the idea that people in power or are famous generally don't associate with the common man.
Well you have something there in that the larger the population then one cannot talk to everyone at one time and more importantly one cannot listen to all of them at the same time. Look at it as a small firm that has just a handful of employees. I can speak to these people on a one to one basis individually or all in one assembled collective group in a extremely short amount of time giving my instructions of what is to be done and listening to their responses etc etc. 20 years down the line and my little firm is now a company, and I cannot and do not have the time to talk to all of my now thousands of employees all at once so I simply select a charge hand and or a foreman as a go between. I think you get the message. In the case of the so called "gods" they selected rulers as go betweens ; kings . Do not get these go betweens confused with priests. The function of the priests was to only be there to serve the gods everyday wants and needs and whims, they were nothing more than goffers and had no power outside of the "sacred perimeters of the "gods", there was no such thing and as "religion". But eventually the priest usurped the Kings & Pharaohs and took full control of almost everything in ancient times, though some power was regained and the duality of King and priest came into being. As we have here in the UK today. Our Queen serves the dual role of Head of the church of England and Head of the Monarchy.
Another way to look at it would be, perhaps man being made in God's image is why we possess some of God's traits that actually originate from him.
And that would all boil down to evidence that a "god" was the creator of mankind.
2. Christians are afraid of death.
I can only assume that this would not be just a trait of Christians. And you have said "some are and some not" and it is a silly point. I am an atheist. and at my age I think about dying more than I did just 10 years ago. I believe one accepts the inevitable the longer one lives and now I am not so bothered. I was frightened of dying when I was younger with a growing family but wasn't when I was a teenager, I actually ' lived for the moment'.
3. If God existed he would make everything crystal clear to where there would be no need for a Bible, or the Bible would be completely understood the same by everyone.[............]We value the ability to learn from experience and personal research,
Indeed we do or at least some of us do. But anything that comes along to free up our time is only an advantage.
and the right to think for ourselves.
Which sadly enough is now being slowly and stealthily being eroded & wiped from the human brain. Thought crime is now more prevalent in modern times and society now than it was when "god" was telling us what we can't think.
Why would this be any different concerning the Bible and the study thereof?
What make you believe it is any different? The bible is a book, I personally believe it to be a book of ancient history and I have studied it as such.
This is not a victimhood thing from you, is it?
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@keithprosser
I'm more than a little suspicious of characters who award themselves knighthoods!
FFS! Is it any wonder you are as ignorant and contrary as you are dismissive,
Ok then let's "speculate". I will take these a few at a time as I have a lot to do today.
Ex 4:18 I read that simply as Moses being polite to the aged father of his wife. They had known each other a long time and appear to have had a good relationship. It's not clear what Jethro's status in the community was,but he wasn't a nobody. However, I doubt Jethro's permission was actually required.
It could have been that it had to do with Jethro being a high priest of Midian and probably a royal and had a different god to that of Moses. Moses, being 'out of Egypt' would have been of Taurus = bull and a 'foreigner' and his god would have been any one of the pantheon of Egyptian , whereas Jethro was of the Aries Ram. The conflict between these two houses - shepherds and bulls/ Aries & Taurus - seems to go back hundreds if not thousands of years.
The writers wanted to present Moses as showing respect, not that Moses was subordinate to Jethro.
Keeping in mind that you have recently said " You have to acknowledge that we can't interrogate the authors" I do think it was that not only was Jethro was of high status but also a different house as mentioned above. Moses seems to have been caught between the two during his 'exile'. I don't believe exile is a coincidence either as this is a recurring theme throughout the biblical scriptures particularly in the Old Testament i.e. a man (usually a half brother) returning from exile to free his people or to do battle with his half sibling in a power struggle. It happens many times in the OT and I believe, only once in the NT. Was it a simple slave driver that Moses was said to have murdered or his half brother?
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@TheRealNihilist
Do you want to try saying this again or what?
No. You can not only understand what you yourself have wrote , you cannot keep up with what you wrote and the responses to it.
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@keithprosser
God tells Moses to go free his people but then has to get permission from his father-in law to do so. Why?God knows that Pharaoh will not let them go because God admit to purposely hardening the heart of Pharaoh. Why?God wants Moses dead all over a foreskin. Why ?If you like I can speculate why the priestly scribes who wrote Exodus wrote those details, but it wouldn't be from a believer's perspective.
Now your getting it. And I will have to prefix everything from now on with " would non believers also like to speculate without simply saying it is all bullshit". FFS you can be seriously contrary for the fkn sake of it at times. And you forgot - why cannot the bible make up its mind who moses' father-in-law is? I believe I have an idea what is going on but it would have been nice to get the perspective of a literalist theist.
It would have ended,
I doubt it. But I will have a chance to prove that sooner or later , I am sure.
You really should invest in the works of someone like Sir Laurence Gardener. Genesis of the Grail Kings or Bloodline of the Holy Grail. They are a fascinating modern read that you may find interesting if not believable.
A few short video lectures of Gardener I didn't know existed until a few years ago.
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@TheRealNihilist
Wrong in what sense?
I that "god " is not good. as per the assumption that he is good.FFS can you not read your own fkn writing.
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@keithprosser
I get that you want a believer to tell you what they think the text means.
Good. Then don't waste your time filling up the thread with something you don't believe happened or people and places you don't believe existed as you did with your first post on this thread at post 7, Doing what you did simply diverts from the op and its intention and causes sea sponges and amoebas to start putting up all kninds of shite that simply have nothing to do with the op. Because as I have said, putting up a link or simply saying it's all bullshit doesn't answer those questions. I am glad that finally sunk in.
I can't help you with that, unfortunately!
Yes, I know because you said the first 6 books are not true historically, your input to this thread should have started and ended there. Do I have to prefix all of my threads with - 'for the personal attention of the believers only'? Of course I don't, all threads are open to anyone to attempt an explanation but not believe they are explaining and answering questions simply by saying none of it is true and a fkn link proves it!. I am not a believer but I believe I have better explanations for most of the ambiguous, enigmatic half stories that make up the NT scripture than those that claim to be faithful followers of The Christ and the scriptures.
Discussing biblical archaeological discoveries and or what one deems to be biblical ' evidence' is entirely a different matter than to discussing the actual narrative of the actual biblical scriptures themselves. Only sea sponge fetus' and amoebas fail to recognise this simple fact.
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You didn't respond to post 18
Your post 18 was responded to and it is exactly the same post as your pointless and irrelevant post 63 above which has also been responded to. But never mind, I can't fkn stand you.
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You haven't commented on my #62 post.
I didn't realize that it was compulsory to do so since you have ignored many of my replies, statements and questions on threads of your own.
You have to acknowledge that we can't interrogate the authors so a degree of speculation is unavoidable.
AND you have to acknowledge that there are millions who do believe in these very real and existing scriptures who can be "interrogated". That is my point why do you keep missing it. It is irrelevant to this thread that we cannot "interrogate" the authors. I have posed questions to those that can be "interrogated",b-e-c-a-u-s-e they believe in these ancient scriptures and to date they have failed miserably to respond.
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@disgusted
I know you've run away from this but it stands as refutation that I dismiss the claims out of hand.
I can only suggest (1) That you read your link yourself thoroughly. (2) That you realize your link has nothing to do with the questions posed. (3) If you consider my response to be " "running away", then I can only say that you are more than entitled to that assumption. but you or your link doesn't answer the questions I have asked. (4) That I don't give two fucks about the content of your link , my little sea sponge foetus.
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@keithprosser
I'm trying to fit in!
And commenting on things you have already dismissed with a wave of the hand helps you "fit in" does it? whatever it is you mean by fitting in?
I will have to work on that one.
You simply did not come across to me as someone of a sea sponge - like mentality, who believes that simply by saying "it didn't happen or none of it is true", is an answer to the questions posed. Like I have said, these statements are there in the scriptures, they do exist and they were written by someone and it is not a case of one believing or disbelieving them, it is the fact that they are there and millions around the world DO believe them.
Someone has written about Jesus, you don't have to believe or disbelieve what has been wrote about him to question and scrutinize what has been wrote about him or the scriptures.
You remind me of the people whose first assumption to the subject of religion being brought into a conversation is automatically assume that the speaker is himself religious without bothering to even entertain for a minute, what it is the speaker has to say., that is absolute ignorance.
You have to accept that people have been studying "religion" for hundreds of years and before we were even born, are you going to dismiss all of them and their discoveries simply because the subject is about religion and the religious!?
I question and scrutinize what it is the "religious" actually are religious about. Their personal faith doesn't concern me. it is what they have faith in that I am interested in.
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@keithprosser
--> @Stephen, @disgusted, @Dr.FranklinThis was meant to be a response to PW, who has unaccountably 'blocked' me hence I have @'ed you lot instead........ etc etc etc
All very interesting keith but unfortunately those questions posed in the OP still stand whether you choose not to believe the first six books or not.
Not believing in THE exodus does not out rule the existence of characters , places and events in THE BOOK of Exodus You see those six books are there, in the Old Testament; someone wrote them, and I am baffled as to why you seem to be failing to understand that the bible actually exists, so needs explaining.
When one makes a statement to a solicitor or barrister or the police, it is scrutinised of its content for its validity and witnesses are interviewed. It is then either accepted or dismissed. And sometimes years after the event in cold cases.
When one doesn't believe in something one usually has a good reason and support behind that reasoning. If one chooses - as you and the resident amoeba have done - simply to dismiss it all - which you are entitled to do, then you simply, with a wave of the hand, have disqualified yourself from commenting on the matter as your initial and first response is one of TOTAL dismissal. You will be saying next that I should not be questioning something because YOU don't believe it.
Those verses that I have questioned are in the Old Testament scripture, they exist and they are statements written by someone albeit thousands of years ago,. They are statements that are believed by MILLIONS of people and at least ONE of those millions should be able to adress my questions. They can be questioned and they should be questioned BEFORE being dismissed.
So you see, I don't care if you don't believe in the first six books, it is totally irrelevant to this thread.
I can understand that anyone with the brain of a sea sponge or an amoeba not getting the points I have made above, but I feel somewhat let down by someone who talks and comes across as half intelligent such as yourself. It is quite absurd realy.
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@TheRealNihilist
I said it is an assumption since theists believe God exist.
Yes. I know. You have also said it is an assumption that god is good. I have suggested that the book of the theist itself proves them to be wrong when I stated :
And a lie. The bible/OT makes it more than clear that god is a ' jealous god of war ' who won't hesitate to murder anyone, including children who (1) doesn't believe in him. (2) doesn't love him. (3) doesn't obey him and all his laws and dictates.
Believers on the other hand , will make up all kinds of excuses to justify why the god of the Old Testament acts they way he does, or simply, they will simply say that all the above are false claims and attempt to rewrite the bible to prove anyone who agrees with all the above wrong. So tell us something new.
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@disgusted
I didn't accuse you of forgetting your thread I informed you that you ran away from my post
I stand corrected.
this is what you actually wrote.
post 105 I hopeyour not running away from this one
On this thread here. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/1971?page=5
If you didn't understand what I wrote in reply to that nonsense then I shouldn't' be surprised. But no. I could never mistake a complete and utter buffoon such as yourself for a very intelligent person such as keith prosser. and I didn't run away and I didn't call you prosser.
READ .... IT .... SLOWLEY
"I said I am not your best new and only friend, prosser". i.e. prosser may be you new and only friend but I am not like him who would "run away" and abandon one of my own thread as he has done a few times now. You keep banging your head sunshine, I love watching you do it.
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@Dr.Franklin
Or you going to rebuttal anything, asshole.Or just spam like a fucktrad
10/10. Nice to notice that someone else sees this repugnant vile bigot for what he is. It a crying shame the mods here don't.
There is not a single thread he doesn't disrupt simply for the sake of it. It was nice to see keith prossers thread flow while he was banned only for him to be allowed to return and instantly disrupt and derail it. He has not a single ounce of respect for other members.
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