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@Mopac
Hey, aren't you that guy who ignores everyrhing that is said to them while pretending nobody ever tells you anything? I remember you.
Bad memory then.
I am the guy who knows the New Testament scriptures better than you. And whose questions that you have always failed to answer. Aren't you the tard who has one default answer for everything? I remember you. You believe by simply repeatedly writing the words - truth & ultimate reality - over and over that everything is truth & real except me and anyone else who believes you only write complete and utter bollocks.
I can only guess that the truth - in reality - is as Ser Bronn of the Blackwater , says:
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@ludofl3x
whatever the actual condition is called for getting into heaven.
I have raised the question of 'heaven' many times here. Not a single Christian has been able to tell me where it is or what it is. In fact when asked some serious and meaningful questions about the New Testament, Christians seems to shrink away after one has debunked their initial cretinous, silly and childish explanations.
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@disgusted
When you read young virgins understand prepubescent children and then sing praise to your god and look at your own daughters and weep, if you are a human.
Indeed it is a filthy practice that is still carried out among the muslim community today. They are even gang rapeing white foreigners and white western children as "a punishment" for not not being muslim.
Nazir Afzal OBE the Chief Crown Prosecutor had this to sayabout the Pakistani “rape culture”. He called it “imported cultural baggage”and added that: “it had played a role in thecrimes”, and that Muslim Pakistani men “think that [white] women are some lesser being”.
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Donald Trump is the greatest president the U.K. ever had. Thank you America.
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@WisdomofAges
Angels ?
Simply means messenger.
The greatest scam humans invented is the "GOD" garbage.
I think the scam lies in religion and not so called "gods".
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@WisdomofAges
the same construct is used for the JESUS HOAX
Can you actually prove and explain this "JESUS HOAX".
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@keithprosser
I seriously doubt you know much more about Islam and Muslims that I do.
I know more than enough to know it is not religion of peace but a ideology of conversion and conquest. I don't care what you doubt.
I am disappointed you can't accept the reality of Islamophobia. it is human nature to distrust strangers - so of course there are anti-Muslim bigots in the world - certainly in the UK.
And you just cannot help yourself can you. My problem is with Islam. You know this but just cannot help yourself throwing the word " muslim" into the mix EXACTLY as you have done above.
Islamophobia
It is not IRRATIONAL to fear islam. 1400 years of war and conquest proves that point perfectly, and above all this, no matter what you have wrote at post 263 above non of it goes anywhere to proving is a Peaceful religion as you seem so desperate to convince people otherwise.
So you claim to have had a wife who happened to be a non practicing muslim. SO!!!! This doesn't prove islam is a religion of peace does It? And If I cared and was interested, the first question you should be pressed on is why was she a non practicing muslim? Did she actually see islam for what it was?
I personally do not believe you were ever married to a muslim. Ex muslim maybe.
Asma Lamrabet has been involved for many years in the reflection on the issue of women in Islam, and she gives numerous lectures on this subject throughout the world.Essayist and engaged in the reformist reading of Islam in general and the question of women in particular.
"It goes without saying that the marriage of a Muslim woman to a non-Muslim man is one of the main taboo issues in debates on Islam".
"According to a broad consensus religiously sterile, a Muslim woman is formally forbidden to marry a non-Muslim man regardless of his religion, while a Muslim man is allowed to get married to a non Muslim woman, mainly a Christian or a Jew, considered by the Islamic schools as “People of the Book”
What does the Qur’an say about this issue and how does it deal with the marriage of Muslim men and women to non-Muslims?
In the Qur’an, there is only one verse that clearly tackles this issue. It is absolutely the main verse that states a provision on marriage with a category of non-Muslims.
Allah says: “Do not marry idolatresses (al mushrikāt) till they believe; and certainly a believing maid is better than an idolatress even though she would please you; and do not marry idolaters (al Mushrikīn) till they believe (hata yūminū), and certainly a believing slave is better than an idolater, even though he would please you. These invite to the Fire, and Allah invites to the Garden and to forgiveness by His grace, and makes clear His revelations to mankind so that they may remember.”Qur’an 2:221.
In the Qur’an, there is only one verse that clearly tackles this issue. It is absolutely the main verse that states a provision on marriage with a category of non-Muslims.
Allah says: “Do not marry idolatresses (al mushrikāt) till they believe; and certainly a believing maid is better than an idolatress even though she would please you; and do not marry idolaters (al Mushrikīn) till they believe (hata yūminū), and certainly a believing slave is better than an idolater, even though he would please you. These invite to the Fire, and Allah invites to the Garden and to forgiveness by His grace, and makes clear His revelations to mankind so that they may remember.”Qur’an 2:221.
NOW< go into ignore mode and take up your usual position of plunging your head in the sand and tell us all how and why this centuries old ISLAMIC Taboo did not apply to you and your Muslim wife.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you believe I am only showing the bad side of Islam, please feel free to show me the good side.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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@disgusted
Supply the post number for this
At 230 I wrote: .
And I asked you AT POST 188 above for moreinformation of the Israeli sniper deliberately targeted 4 year old Palestinianchild. Could you post that story up for me please. You have fellvery silent on this issue. Is there a reason you won't back up this story?
At 239 you posted;
I'm not going back tofind it but what you cited said the EU claimed there ere 25,000 Muslims in theUK who may pose a threat.
In your ignorance you would not understand the difference.
So And I ask you again, doyou have a single piece of evidence that this Israeli sniper deliberatelytargeted 4 year old Palestinian child for purely religious reasons? Do youin fact have a single piece of evidence that proves this particular Israeli sniperwas a Jew? He could have been Christian.
Neither you nor anyone else knows what the camel fucker said.
By that I take it, you mean Allah's messenger and perfect role model prophet Muhammad. Well muslims believe they do know what their perfect prophet said., so why don't YOU just tell them how wrong they are for a change instead of "singling out " christians and the bible? You seem you have absolutely no problem with attacking Christians and christianity, You have been doing that almost every single post you make.
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Wikipedia says:Safiyya bint Huyayy was a noblewoman,[70] the daughter of Huyayy ibn Akhtab, chief of the Jewish tribe Banu Nadir, who was killed at the Battle of the Trench.[71][72]She had been married first to the poet Sallam ibn Mishkam, who had divorced her,[70][73] and second to Kenana ibn al-Rabi, a commander. In 628, at the Battle of Khaybar,[74] Banu Nadir was defeated, her husband was executed and she was taken as a prisoner. Muhammad freed her from her captor Dihya and proposed marriage, which Safiyya accepted.[75] According to Martin Lings, Muhammad had given Safiyyah the choice of returning to the defeated Banu Nadir, or becoming Muslim and marrying him, and Safiyyah opted for the latter choice.[76]According to a hadith, Muhammad's contemporaries believed that due to Safiyya's high status, it was only befitting that she be manumitted and married to Muhammad.[77] Modern scholars believe that Muhammad married Safiyya as part of reconciliation with the Jewish tribe and as a gesture of goodwill.[78][79] John L. Esposito states that the marriage may have been political or to cement alliances.
Conveniently skipping the child bride he raped aged 9, was it?He married his second wife when she was six years old.
How about a link to those sources 70-79 instead of inserting links into my quotes and doctoring my post. There's a good chap.
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@keithprosser
Muslims are peaceful generally as are ChristiansI agree. It is their scriptures that I disagree with. WOW! we seem to have made some ground.
In that case it's hard to see what we are arguing about!
Who is arguing only you and disgusted. You are both apologist for this barbaric ideology. I have never argued any other way than to say ISLAM is not a religion of peace. You and disgusted have made it about muslims simply because you have no argument to support Islam being a religion of peace.
Put another way, you contend the presence of verses such as 8:39 means Islam is not 'a religion of peace'. In support you point to the many acts of terror, violence, war and conquest by Muslims.
You forgot that in support of my claim and the claim of many others. I ALSO offer in support many statements from ISLAMIC sources.
But you seem unwilling to go any deeper.What is the context of 8:39? how is it interpreted by scholars and understood by ordinary Muslims?
I have given my opinion on what this verse means. It means exactly what it says, " until ALL religion is for Allah".
Quran 8:39
And fight them until there is no fitnah and[until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed,Allah is Seeing of what they do.
And fight them until there is no fitnah and[until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed,Allah is Seeing of what they do.
You seem to recoil at this verse that you couldn't even post it in full. Is it because it explains ISLAM in a nutshell? Bring home a bit of truth does it? You still haven't given us you interpretation of this verse even after many requests to do so.
But you seem unwilling to go any deeper.
I am forced to go deeper simply because you don't understand a thing about this ideology and simply try to defend it with left wing rhetoric and accusations of Racism, bigotry and that good ole favourite of yours, the non word "islamophobia". I also go "deeper" because I can go deeper. I have reda much on Islam since 9/11 I suggest you before you go bandying those accusations around as if you are and expert on me and on Islam
It's a shame forums degenerate into soap boxes.
Offering up factual evidence from learned scholars and teaches of the ideology is soap boxing now is it? You have not offered a single solitary piece of evidence that shows Islam to be a religion of peace. Not a single piece. I on the other hand have offered support for my claim from those who do know and have "A DEEPER" understanding of what this Islamic ideology stands for.
It is you who has taken to the "soap box" and have "degenerated the forum" crying on behalf of muslims and Islam apologising for it at every opportunity while not offering a single iota of evidence to support the FALSE claim that Islam is a religion of peace. I keep offering you the chance to state your case. YOU haven't because you can't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you believe I am only showing the bad side of Islam, please feel free to show me the good side.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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A Sex Slave as a Gift for you from Abu Bakr al Baghdadi
"Captives are captives, do as you please with them".
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You seem confused, the orders in the bible are for Christians,
I would guess Hebrews, Christians didn't come along until hundreds of years later . maybe thousands.
not very peaceful and your argument is all about what's written in the book
CORRECT It is , well spotted. It is these very scriptures/ books you see that caused <,, past tense. these people to act the way they did and still do in the case of Islam<<< present tense. GOOG BOY!
You seem confused
Not at all. You wrote:
When you read young virgins understand prepubescent children and then sing praise to your god and look at your own daughters and weep, if you are a human.
And I responded>
Of course rape in religious stories is not confined to Judaism. Islam has it own rape stories and commited by non other than the perfect prophet himself Muhammad who, by all accounts is the role model for all muslims to emulate.
Dr Wafa Sultan one of many leading and influential commentator and authors of Islam has this to say:
"In order to understand Islam you have to read the biography of Muhammad. It is very traumatising. It is very shocking. He married his second wife when she was six years old. He was over fifty. His third wife was Sophia. She was a Jewish Woman. It was well documented, well written in our school books that he attacked her tribe. He killed her father, her brother, and her husband, the same day, he slept with her. In order to understand Islam you have to read the biography of Muhammad. It is very traumatising. It is very shocking".
Yes, on this level Judaism and Islam and the taking of sex slaves to rape, are equals, although, Judaism appears to have dragged itself into the 21st century and there doesn't seem to be anything in Judaism that sanctions any such behaviour today as does Islam.
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@disgusted
You failed to address your blatant lie. You combined two unrelated posts in a blatant lie.
Stop being silly , it wasn't a lie. No I have posted what I have said, figures may be a bit off in that link, but the fact remains the same, there are MUSLIM jihadis on British soil.
It doesn't matter what the figures are. The figures nor you have proven Islam to be a religion of peace.
Want to try pathetically to defend yourself?
From what? I stated figures, you stated figures, none of which go to prove that Islam is a religion of peace. And there was me thinking you had finally grasped it all.
Now why don't you start attacking Islam with the same venom that you have no problem attacking christians with?
Neither you nor anyone else knows what the camel fucker said.
By that I take it, you mean Allah's messenger and perfect role model prophet Muhammad. Well muslims believe they do know what their perfect prophet said., so why don't YOU just tell them how wrong they are for a change instead of "singling out " christians and the bible? You seem you have absolutely no problem with attacking Christians and christianity, You have been doing that almost every single post you make.
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@disgusted
Neither you nor anyone else knows what the camel fucker said.
By that I take it, you mean Allah's messenger and perfect role model prophet Muhammad. Well muslims believe they do know what their perfect prophet said., so why don't YOU just tell them how wrong they are for a change instead of "singling out " christians and the bible? You seem you have absolutely no problem with attacking Christians and christianity, You have been doing that almost every single post you make.
Muslims are peaceful generally as are Christians
I agree. It is their scriptures that I disagree with. WOW! we seem to have made some ground.
The quran and the bible are disgusting books of evil,
I agree and but different reasons.
so fucking what.
Well the Quran is the perfect word of allah you see and the very foundation of Islam. ISLAM and the Hadith is Islam.
I just knew you would get there in the end. GOOD BOY!
You're right for a change, it doesn't prove a fuckin' thing.
Correct!!! WELL DONE!!!!!!!. You are getting good at seeing the facts for what they really are , GOOD BOY!
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@disgusted
Just look at this BLATANT LIE.
UK home to upto 25,000 Islamist extremists who could pose threat, EU official warns
Mrde Kerchove said the UK was home to the highest known number of Islamistradicals in Europe – between 20,000 and 25,000 people – with 3,000considered a direct threat by MI5 and 500 under constant surveillance.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/islamist-extremists-uk-highest-number-europe-25000-terror-threat-eu-official-isis-islam-britain-a7923966.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/islamist-extremists-uk-highest-number-europe-25000-terror-threat-eu-official-isis-islam-britain-a7923966.html
And non of above goes to prove Islam is a religion of peace.
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@disgusted
Why? A maths teacher will probably agree with you on the figures, figures that I myself have not disputed. But as far as proving Islam is a religion of peace it has no bearing whatsoever. It just means that a large proportion of muslims living in the U.K are peaceful, it doesn't mean ISLAM is peaceful.
And the 1billion Muslims living peacefully in the world is proof that they are peaceful.
"THEY" people you mean. This is where you keep getting confused. It doesn't matter how many or how peaceful muslims<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<HERE you are talking people, not ISLAM
The Islamic "faith" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< is not people or a race and never will be. IT, Islam, is an ideology and a bad one at that.
So again, it doesn't matter what numbers you throw at me, it will never ever mean that ISLAM is a religion of peace. .
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@disgusted
And I asked you AT POST 188 above for moreinformation of the Israeli sniper deliberately targeted 4 year oldpalestinian child. Could you post that story up for me please. Youhave fell very silent on this issue. Is there a reason you won't back upthis story?I'm not going back to find it but what
So we only have your very trustworthy word for the story you have told us about an Israeli sniper purposely targeting a 4 year old child . and you have the nerve to continually press people for "citations".
AND none of this does not go anywhere in proving Islam is a religion of peace , I'm afraid,
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@keithprosser
I am perfectly aware the literal meaning of 'islamopobia' is not 'anti-muslim bigotry' but it's the word that has stuck in English - unfortuntely.
Indeed it has " has stuck in English" and apologist like yourself have seen to it that it has.
But however imperfect th available vocaulary is, we have to do our best with it!
Indeed, this means drop the word "islamophobia" out at the first sign of anyone criticizing Islam, as you do, at every opportunity and at every given chance, but oddly have never been able to tell us what is good about islam.
Islam is not ultra-pacifist as quakerism is.
Ya don't say. What is it then, "kind of passive" ?
Almost all muslim scholars agree that it is a duty to defend the faith and the faithful,
The faith you are talking about is ISLAM, And mulsims are also instructed to convert others to it and by the sword if necessary>>>
Quran 8:39And fight them until there is no fitnah and[until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed,Allah is Seeing of what they do.
It teaches hate and division towards anyone not muslim>>
"Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush"."You, who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact]allies of one another".
but holy war must b defensive, not aggressive.
Just not being Muslim is an offence to muslims. Those two white scandinavian girls were beheaded very recently because "they were an offence to allah".
Is islam a religion of peace or not? Yes and no.
That is the most ignorant statement on this issue I have ever heard in my life. And you have the absolute nerve to call others "ignorant of Islam".
You really need to do some homework if you want to discuss something you know absolutely NOTHING ABOUT!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you believe I am only showing the bad side of Islam, please feel free to show me the good side.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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@keithprosser
It's still not clear what 'religion of peace' means. If we clear that up it will be easier to say if Islam is one or not.
Well why don't YOU start a discussion on this barbaric ideology that our world leader insist on telling us is a "religion of peace"?
Meantime If you believe I am only showing the bad side of Islam, please feel free to show me the good side.
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@Grugore
--> @Stephen@Steven: "The Home Office claims that there are between 26 and 30 THOUSAND!!!!!!! muslim jihadis roaming the streets of Britain."And most of the remaining rag heads support them.
Unfortunately this is absolutely true.
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@disgusted
When you read young virgins understand prepubescent children and then sing praise to your god and look at your own daughters and weep, if you are a human.
Of course rape in religious stories is not confined to Judaism. Islam has it own rape stories and commited by non other than the perfect prophet himself Muhammad who, by all accounts is the role model for all muslims to emulate.
Dr Wafa Sultan one of many leading and influential commentator and authors of Islam has this to say:
"In order tounderstand Islam you have to read the biography of Muhammad. It is verytraumatising. It is very shocking. He married his second wife when she was sixyears old. He was over fifty. His third wife was Sophia. She was a Jewishwoman. It was well documented, well written in our school books that heattacked her tribe. He killed her father, her brother, and her husband, thesame day, he slept with her. In order to understand Islam you have toread the biography of Muhammad. It is very traumatising. It is very shocking".
Yes, on this level Judaism and Islam and the taking of sex slaves to rape, are equals, although, Judaism appears to have dragged itself into the 21st century and there doesn't seem to be anything in Judaism that sanctions any such behaviour today as does Islam.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Considering creationist tend to be evangelical Christians you are again a lying pig.
Pigs that tell lies. Interesting that is ,Which. And do these pigs have a god? What is its name and where does this pig god reside? Or are you just spouting lies yourself by calling others liars without evidence again?
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You continue to claim 93% of British Muslims are peaceful and that is a lie, according to your statistics it's 99.993%.
Ok. Forgive me. I won't dispute that figure either. So FKN WHAT??? This still doesn't prove that Islam is a religion of peace. As I have already stated this simply means that a percentage of the worlds population of muslims are living peacefully in the U.K.
What religion do those 99.993% belong to?
This percentage you are are quoting is the UK percentage isn't iT ? and you say muslims. yes here we are:
disgusted post # 211 There are currently 3.3 million Muslims living in the UK, 0.007% are supposedly not nice, that must prove the religion unpeaceful.
So that will be 99.993% of UK Muslims that belong to Islam. So a small percentage of the worlds population of muslims are living peacefully here in the UK. Ok, so? WHAT'S YA POINT? do you actually believe that by posting some percentages that you have proven Islam is a religion of peace? YOU HAVEN'T. The Home Office claims that there are between 26 and 30 THOUSAND!!!!!!! muslim jihadis roaming the streets of Britain.
You sound like the Black Knight, it's only a scratch.
Which still doesn't and won't prove anything and certainly does not prove that Islam is a religion of peace. All Circular. You are like one of those puppies who don't realise that it is it's own tail that it is chasing.
And I asked you AT POST 188 above for more information of the Israeli sniper deliberately targeted 4 year old palestinian child. Could you post that story up for me please. You have fell very silent on this issue. Is there a reason you won't back up this story?
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Grow up, religion is poison, religion is dangerous. Not just the one someone has told you about.
I agree. I have never denied it.
Neither you nor anyone else knows what the camel fucker said.
By that I take it, you mean Allah's messenger and perfect role model prophet Muhammad. Well muslims believe they do know what their perfect prophet said., so why don't YOU just tell them how wrong they are for a change instead of "singling out " christians and the bible? You seem you have absolutely no problem with attacking Christians and christianity, You have been doing that almost every single post you make.
I have grown up and you childishly (not very grown up that. is it) insulting the muslims perfect prophet and role model that way doesn't help the "religion of peace " get any more peaceful does it? People have lost their lives just for creating cartoons of the Prophet PBUH!!
Not a single thing you have said goes to prove ISlAM is a religion of peace. I said, you will keep going around in circles and you have.
That's 99.993% 0f the Muslims in the UK are peaceful,
Yes and? This simply means, as I have already stated that, "93% of muslims in the UK are living in peace because they want and prefer peace ".
What is your point? It goes absolutely nowhere in proving anything, least of all the Islam is a religion of peace.
you not only need to visit reality but a maths teacher could help.
Why? A maths teacher will probably agree with you on the figures, figures that I myself have not disputed. But as far as proving Islam is a religion of peace it has no bearing whatsoever. It just means that a large proportion of muslims living in the U.K are peaceful, it doesn't mean ISLAM is peaceful.
You keep going around in circles as if YOU have proved something, You haven't.
You just carry on knocking yourself out because doing so won't prove Islam is a religion of peace , either.
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@keithprosser
Ah, I see this is the religion forum, not science! I don't think I want to say much about the theology of sex.
It is, as the title suggests - Mini arguments for God's existence - and you mentioned "reproduction and offspring" which amounts to sex, theological or not.
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@keithprosser
That said, it's not settled why sex exists.
Well the Sumerians have spoke of this and so does the bible. Without trawling through old papers and volumes of other material , it was to do with the first human " pairs" being incompatible. But once they had "mixed the essence of the gods" with THE AdamA, they became compatible and able to reproduce on their own at [free] will and much quicker and stronger than the "gods" could produce them for themselves.
Maybe I should save that for a thread of its own.
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@disgusted
"There are currently 3.3 million Muslims living in the UK, 0.007% are supposedly not nice, that must prove the religion unpeaceful".
If what you state above is correct, then I agree with you, it proves the "religion" to be "unpeaceful". But I don't think you meant to say that , did you.
The 93% that you are suggesting are peaceful, simply means that 93% of muslims in the UK are living in peace because they want and prefer peace CONTRARY to their so called religion.., It doesn't mean ISLAM is a peaceful religion.
Islam doesn't teach peace, it is as simple and clear as that. The slightest hint of "peace" in the quran is the command that MUSLIMS treat ONE ANOTHER peacefully and with kindness. UNLESS of course they decide they have had enough of the submission then:
the Prophet Muhammad said: Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then killhim."
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@keithprosser
So, in your opinion, it has nothing to do with Islam.Is it your opinion it is only Islam?
It is Only Islam. What else can it be? And It's not just my opinion as you have been made well aware of. But in the face of all the evidence from ISLAMIC muslim sources, you have absolutely no intention of finding out for yourself.
Listen, those muslims who murdered those two white western girls may well have been brainwashed, but you have to admit what they are brainwashed by. They say so themselves that these girls are killed for being " an offence to allah". This does not make Islam a religion of peace. does it?
And you really are struggling with this one, aren't you Keith? Surely with all the knowledge you admit to not having on this subject, you can explain a few things that are good about islam.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you believe I am only showing the bad side of Islam, please feel free to show me the good side.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
So show us all the good side!!
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Unless reproduction is occurring there are no offspring for natural selection to operate on.
This is obviously true. I asked because when one speaks of "reproduction" or the "act of", one automatically thinks intercourse and or copulation to cause "reproduction" and in turn this may cause a variant in selection.
Your statement caused Parthenogenesis to spring to mind. This, you may be aware means development of an embryo from an unfertilized egg. Species that develop this way include fish, amphibians, reptiles and some birds, I believe.
Interesting then that fish gave rise to amphibians that gave rise to reptiles that gave rise to birds, from what may have been an unfertilized egg, don't you think.?
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@keithprosser
Darwinism is great, but natural selection can't kick in until you have already established reproduction
Are you stating a fact there? And what do you actually mean in this case by "reproduction" ?
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@keithprosser
merely some wingeing by a few dog lovers?
Who it seems, have been vociferous enough to get as far as the legislator and the Prime Minister's desk and her ear.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Race and Species. Yes I can see your obviously confusion. Witch.
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If this is proof of Islam being unpeaceful, as you say:“But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those(who say this) are witless.”Then this is proof that christians are blood thirsty savages.Added: 12.21.18 12:48AM--> @StephenSeveral times, Palestinians have used children as suicide bombers. And what was a child doing there in the first place? I would have shot him too.1.4billion peaceful people and you can't see it.
(1) the Palestinian quote is not mine, so please correct that. . Though there is a point i.e tit for tat strikes between Jews and Arabs. (2) non of what you have quoted goes to prove that ISLAM is a religion of peace. Like I have said, you will keep saying the same thing while not proving islam is a religion of peace.
And I asked you AT POST 188 above for more information of the Israeli sniper deliberately targeted 4 year old palestinian child. Could you post that story up for me please.
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Tell me, what is it makes these ISLAMIC extremist carry out these atrocities such as the beheadings of two Scandinavian girls very recently?ISIS/islamist propaganda?
So, in your opinion, it has nothing to do with Islam.
I read your link. It only appears to be telling any recruits how great a caliphate will be. More or less promising paradise here on earth and the hereafter. This does not prove Islam is a religion of peace. So what is you point.
Tell me, what is it makes these ISLAMIC extremist carry out these atrocities such as the beheadings of two Scandinavian girls very recently? The Muslims who actually committed this atrocious murder say they did it because " they [the girls] were enemies of god" :Tell me, what is it makes most muslims not carry out any atrocities such as the beheadings of two Scandinavian girls very recently?
Attempting to answer a question with questions of your own (1) is not answering the question and (2) lt does not make islam a religion of peace. (3) The only reason those muslims gave for killing those two white western girls was because " they were offence to Allah".
Islam is not passive, pacifist religion in the way Christianity is.
It was only a post or so ago that you believed christianity would be the same as Islam under a theocracy. here>
keithprosser Wrote:I don't think a Christian theocracy would be any better than an Islamic one.
Islam does not teach 'turn the other cheek' - Muslims should fight in defence of their faith.
And muslims are taught to spread Islam by the sword, which they have done and are still doing. They are taught to hate all non believers and the evidence for this is insurmountable.
Radical Islamists - and Stephen - prefer to interpret it as mandating unlimited war against the infide.
Correct, This is what the quran actually teached, you know. And I am still waiting for you to give your interpretation of the vile and telling verse that teaches IMO, perpetual was (jihad) until the whole world is converted to Islam. you keep avoiding this . why?
Quran 8:39
And fight them until there is no fitnah and[until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed,Allah is Seeing of what they do.
I haven't spent months researching this -
I would never have guessed. this is probably the reason you defend it so fervently. But my guess is that your simply being contrary for the sake of it. You have no intentions of listening to or reading the words of Islamic scholars and historians; those who DO actually know what islam is about.
Such as Ayatollah Khomeini who had devoted his entire life to the study of Islamic doctrine who said:
“But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those(who say this) are witless.”
That ^^^^^^ will be you by admission, Keith.
but I can tell I need to
You do. Try reading The Biography of Muhammad for starters as I have recommended you do as does Dr Wafa Sultan: who says
"Islam has never been misunderstood. Islam is the problem. But no one is stating the truth. No one is taking a hard look at the root of terrorism which is the brain washing machine called Islam. Islam is not up to me, is not up to any Muslim – man or woman. Islam is exactly what the prophet Muhammad did and said. In order to understand Islam you have to read the biography of Muhammad. It is very traumatising. It is very shocking".
A God Who Hates: The Courageous Woman Who Inflamed the Muslim World Speaks Out Against the Evils of Radical Islam Hardcover – 2 Dec 2009
I suppose this Dr, in your opinion put her life on the line simply "to collect a medal from the president". Maybe a Pulitzer Prize?
and what Grugore, Stephen et al offer up is superficial and - one suspects - agenda-driven.
Attacking the person again. Are all these Muslim scholars of ISLAM "offering up superficial works" when they have studied Islam for much longer than you. Some have made it a life's work?
You have admitted above and shown yourself to be "ignorant of Islam" while calling others ignorant of Islam. This is typical of an apologists such as yourself, to judge others by your own lack of research and understanding of this Barbaric ideology.
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If you believe I am only showing the bad side of Islam, please feel free to show me the good sideI Did in post #211
#211 "There are currently 3.3 million Muslims living in the UK, 0.007% are supposedly not nice, that must prove the religion unpeaceful".
It doesn't prove it is peaceful does it. You can keep going around in circles all you wish but you quoting percentages will not prove that Islam is a religion of peace. Many muslim scholars,researchers and authors simply disagree with you. this one considers you "witless".
Ayatollah Khomeini who had devoted his entire life to the study of Islamic doctrine and became the spiritual and religious leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran and the foremost religious authority, who said:
“But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those(who say this) are witless.”
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"What about Asians who are about to have their right to eat dog criminalised."
Yes , so . Theresa May is being pushed to legislate on this and criminalise eating dog. What are you struggling with.
The law was, is and remains that eating dog per se is not criminal but the buying and selling of dogmeat
for the time being.
Call for a ban on people eating dog meat in the UK
Theresa May's official spokesman said: "The commercial trade in dog meat in the UK is illegal, but we will look closely at the decision taken in the US.
Dr Cameron is the chair of the All-party Parliamentary Dog Advisory Welfare Group.She told Newsbeat she wants a law banning eating dog meat to be passed quickly, adding: "I don't imagine that there will be any party in parliament which would stand against that."
A ban is also backed by Foreign Office minister and Conservative MP Sir Alan Duncan said it is "absolutely right".Dr Cameron says there has been a rise in the consumption of dog meat in the UK, but two animal welfare organisations that Newsbeat spoke to say that they don't have evidence for this.The World Dog Alliance says it doesn't know if there are people in the UK who eat dog meat - but still wants it to be made illegal.
Proposals for a law banning eating dog meat in America is currently working its way through US Congress.
i'm sure there are genuine cases of appeasement out there, but you picked a dud.
It is pandering to an ideology over the customs and traditions of a whole race of Asians.I am not interested in your apologetic opinions keith.
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Yet in the op I see:
“We also believe legislation against dog meat in UK would provide us with strength to continue our work in Asia, as the UK could influence other countries to stop dog meat consumption.It's a "religion" thing
You missed the point, probably on purpose,
The following goes on to say All very one sided. I.e one is allowed because " It's a "religion" thing"
THE OP
It's a "religion" thingAll very one sided when many councils allow the slaughter of live animals by a slit to the throat and are then left to bleed to death. The practice is known as Halal. Halal is Arabic for permissible. Halal food is that which adheres to Islamic law, as defined in the Koran. The Islamic form of slaughtering animals or poultry, dhabiha, involves killing through a cut to the jugular vein, carotid artery and windpipe.This type of slaughter is outlawed in the U.K .
So you see, when I mentioned " a religion thing" I clearly and separately was talking about Halal being a "religion thing" AND NOT THE EATING OF DOG as you are trying to make out I said.
Stop trying to be clever, You are not clever, Your just a contrary clown simply for the sake of being contrary
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I am opposed to theocracy.
And millions of muslims are not. Are you going to deny them their right to live in a theocracy if they choose. You don't seem to want to deny them of anything else.
I don't think a Christian theocracy would be any better than an Islamic one.
And are we a "Christian theocracy"?
What islam shows us is what happens when religion - any religion - breaches the division between church and state.
And you have the nerve to call myself and others "ignorant of Islam"?
I do not believe in appeasing extremists
That would be ISLAMIC extremist. Tell me, what is it makes these ISLAMIC extremist carry out these atrocities such as the beheadings of two Scandinavian girls very recently? The Muslims who actually committed this atrocious murder say they did it because " they [the girls] were enemies of god" : that would be the Allah of the Quran .. So what is it, do you think makes these ISLAMIC extremist carry atrocities such as these?
neither do i believe in riding rough shod over people's religious sensitivities.
Whereas Islam makes no bones about and has no problem with "riding roughshod over other "people's religious sensitivities" that are not Islamic.
Britain is a small crowded island.
It is. I have said many times now, that there are only so many places around a table, but this hasn't stopped you calling me a racist bigot and "islamophobe, has it?
Of course some people don't want to share.
We have already shared everything we have and know with the world and more! Britain has more charities that serve overseas countries than any other nation. If I had my way I wouldn't send any Islamic country a penny until they got their house in order.... but they can't, can they, keith? because they already believe their house is in order don't they?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you believe I am only showing the bad side of Islam, please feel free to show me the good side.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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I didn't accuse you of anything
Post # 73
Added: 12.19.18 12:00PM--> @StephenYou sent me some messages. I deleted them unread as I always do whoever they are from. I don't do 'friends' or debates either. i just read and write posts.
I denied sending you anything. You seem to have me confused with all the other members here who also haven't sent you anything either. FOR THE RECORD I wouldn't send you the steam off my shit, Keith
But you have been consistently 'economical with the truth' in this thread. Contrary to what you stated, eating dog meat is not a religious issue,
I didn't say it was, at all, anywhere on this thread. Now who is being "economical with the truth". Government are being racist by criminalising against Asians and their custom and tradition of eating dog meat while bowing and ALLOWING halal meant that is outlawed to everyone else. GET IT NOW????.
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@keithprosser
I really, really don't want to see Britain Islamicised.
Why not? What is wrong with Islam? What is so, so wrong with the "religion of peace" that you don't want it to take over Britain?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you believe I am only showing the bad side of Islam, please feel free to show me the good side.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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@keithprosser
actually you said
kp: i deleted them somehow!MY ARSE!
So what?
Post 78 above. I have not sent you a single message since the day I arrived on the forum. They certainly were not from ME!!!!! You are either lying or mistaken. It is a shame you didn't keep them, you would have had proof of what you are accusing me of. And I will state here and now: I have never sent anyone a friends request. I too have turned them down and ignored them.
So. You accused me of sending you mails. I didn't and you haven't proved that . Are you going to apologise?
I won't be apologising.
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@keithprosser
But you could be gracious and retract calling me a liar.
I said you were either lying or mistaken. There is no way of knowing now, is there.
i never had a message before
So in all the confusion you got me mixed with all those other private mails that you didn't receive from all the other members who haven't ever sent you a PM.
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@keithprosser
I will - at some point - get annoyed that you think I am in the business of defending Islam.
Frustrated , I'll take that to mean. Frustrated simply because you simply have no answers.
I really, really don't want to see Britain Islamicised.
Why not? What is wrong with Islam? What is so, so wrong with the "religion of peace" that you don't want it to take over Britain?
I'm more worried that ethnic divisions will worsen to a point little short of civil war.
There has ALWAYS been ethnic divisions, in this country and all countries. But many countries still can and do live in relative peace within these divisions. The Islamic ideology - Muhammad - teaches division from the "Pagan" the "Christian" the "Jew" and the "Kuffar".
"Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush".
"You, who havebelieved, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact]allies of one another".
but you just cannot accept this evidence and neither will you accept the evidence of the ISLAMIC academics and scholars who actually do know what a barbaric ideology is taught in ISLAM
Imagine Northern Ireland of the '70s in every British city.
YES. I JUST KNEW YOU WOULD HAVE TO GO THERE . So let me tell you:
It wasn't religious it was political. The IRA didn't make public statements telling us they were at war with us because it was their religious duty and done in the name of god. and they didn't shout "god is great" before or after every atrocity they committed. IN OTHER WORDS, IT WASN'T A RELIGIOUS WAR
i think it is good to discuss Islam but an awful lot of so called 'discussion' is presenting islam purely as the religion of a bunch of murderers and rapists.
It is a "religion of a bunch of murderers and rapists". .
i think it is good to discuss Islam
But you don't discuss it, do you!
You have put nothing to this discussion but apologetics. You have ignored the experts in this field, You have dished out all the usual rhetoric and called me an islamophobe and suggested in a veiled fashion that I am racist bigot, for which you have not a single piece of evidence.You have said of those that criticize Islam " are ignorant of Islam", You have called authors of Islam " hostile witness who wants to inflame and spread anti-islamic feelings" and you suggest I have " semi-informed prejudices" AND, you have offered absolutely nothing to show the ' good side' this barbaric ideology. This is NOT "discussing" Islam. It is simply an attempt at defending the indefensible with insults towards anyone who have good reasons not to agree with you .
Almost every post in reply to you I have asked you:
If you believe I am only showing the bad side of Islam, please feel free to show me the good side.
You have even bothered to try to show us all the good side of Islam. Why? Because there isn't a bloody good side?
If I want to that sort of stuff I can read the Daily Mail.
Scraping the barrel keith. You have no defence or excuses for this violent barbaric ideology , so you resort again to suggesting I am racist bigot.
I read a extremely wide range of things Keith, including the Biography of Muhammad, the Quran the Bible and the FKN Daily Mail
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you believe I am only showing the bad side of Islam, please feel free to show me the good side.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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@disgusted
Several times, Palestinians have used children as suicide bombers. And what was a child doing there in the first place? I would have shot him too. Don't want your kids shot? Leave them with the babysitter...duhHere is the exact same proof as Stephen is using to dehumanise Muslims
That is an extremely lopsided comment, if ever I heard one. Could you point out where I have actually "dehumanised muslims"?
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@Polytheist-Witch
the belief that gods are distinct, separate, real divine beings, rather than archetypes or personifications of natural forces.
Ok, but you have called them "beings". A being is the nature or essence of a person. You then make it clear that they are NOT personifications of nature/natural forces.
So, where do these "beings" that you have called "gods" exist?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Doesn't negate the gods that exist now.
What "gods" are those, and where do they exist?
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@keithprosser
'Islam' is too broad to be called 'the problem'.
So just as I predicted you don't believe the experts in this field either, those such as Dr Wafa Sultan who says" "Islam has never been misunderstood. Islam is the problem. ". She too says " In order to understand Islam you have to read the biography of Muhammad. " and that "no one is stating the truth" about Islam. I too recommended that you read the biography of Muhammad at post # 47 above when you were quick to call everyone "ignorant of Islam". do you remember this?
woefully ignorant of Islam
I said then:
You should read up on it yourself. Can I suggest you start here : The Biography of the Islamic Prophet Muhammad, by Muḥammad ibn Isḥāq ibn Yasār ibn Khiyār was an Arab Muslim historian and hagiographer.
ibn Isḥāq who studied islam all his professional life didn't have clue what he was on about did he keith? No. But you do don't you.
What about Ayatollah Khomeini who had devoted his entire life to the study of Islamic doctrine and became the spiritual and religious leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran and the foremost religious authority, who said:
“But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those(who say this) are witless.”
Was he talking out of his arse too Keith?
Cat Stevens' hasn't hijacked any airliners.
If he is the yardstick to which YOU measure Islam by then it is you who is "ignorant of islam"
You haven't explained what this verse means to you, yet keith.
Quran 8:39
And fight them until there is no fitnah and[until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed,Allah is Seeing of what they do.
And fight them until there is no fitnah and[until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed,Allah is Seeing of what they do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you believe I am only showing the bad side of Islam, please feel free to show me the good side.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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Well now, low and behold, verily I say unto you, there appeared as if by miracle on the religion forum, a delete icon that will from this day on, allow all parishioners to delete ones unwanted private mail.
Coincidence or what. You wouldn't happen to be ghosting as bsh1 would you? or some other mod?
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I think you better check with the developers that a delete facility hasn't been implemented recenty.
I have had from moderation that said to me:
09.26.2018 04:08PMThat said, itis not, to my knowledge, possible to delete messages like these.
So you need to tell him he is wrong and that you managed "somehow" to delete you private mail "but you don't know how".
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I don't see the pitfall at all.
I didn't think you would.
For example, pointing out that the members of a grooming gang are Muslims is not a critique of Islamic theology - it is racism.
RAPE! gangs you mean. And pointing out that the members of the RAPE! gangs were 99.999% muslim is not racist. You see, what they all have in common is NOT RACE, Keith, NO, it happens to be ISLAM.
And here is why it is not just race based but ISLAMIC faith based
There have been Afghani RAPE gangs. Somali RAPE gangs, Iraqi RAPE gangs and there have been what YOU call "PAKI" rape gangs in the UK alone . You see Keith,? All different races with one thing in common: ISLAM.
Get real just for once in your apologetic life.
Read again what Dr Wafa Sultan has to say. Read her quotes, or what you would call "rhetorical indignation! "
"Islam has never been misunderstood. Islam is the problem. But no one is stating the truth. No one is taking a hard look at the root of terrorism which is the brain washing machine called Islam. Islam is not up to me, is not up to any Muslim – man or woman. Islam is exactly what the prophet Muhammad did and said. In order to understand Islam you have to read the biography of Muhammad. It is very traumatising. It is very shocking".
"You need to understand that Islam is the problem. I am sick and tired of people here in the West asking me to soften my message. I am sick and tired of people asking me, "Are you trying to change 1.3 billion people?" Yes, I am trying!"
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