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@Mopac
My God is The Ultimate Reality.
FFS!!!!! Change the FKN record!!!
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@Mopac
But truthfully, atheists are consistently arbitrary. They lack the discernment to make moral judgement calls. Morality for the atheist is what conforms to a personal sense of aesthetics.
JESUS!!!! Can you hear yourself, man?!
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You neglect it's a story, not a report of anything real
I prefer - actual - as opposed to real. Because I believe there are elements here that ring true. I think they "recognised him" (who ever he was and from whichever parentage he sprang) by what he was holding and not by his attire. But it is only my pet theory. And as I have said often about these biblical narratives they are nearly all half stories. The name Moses , according to many authors who have researched the etymology tell us it is derived from the Egyptian word - mose - (mosis in Greek) which relates to an offspring or heir to, as in Tuthmose ( Tuthmosis); born of Thoth and Amenmose (Amenmose) born of Amen.
So when we look at this then from the opinion of these learned and well studied authors we could conclude that this biblical "Moses" was probably of an Egyptian family and maybe even a blood royal half breed? I think he went in exile not because he killed an Egyptian slave driver, but because he murdered someone else, his half brother maybe?
I mean, would a Prince and successful General really have to flee because he killed a slave driver?
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@keithprosser
Most people would say the women mistook Moses to be an Egyptian,
Is that one of your questions that you are asking without asking directly, prosser. Don't think I haven't noticed you doing this.
Yes I am sure he looked just like the princely specimen that he was the day he left Egypt after traveling the parched desert for days or weeks. Midian was 285 miles away from Egypt. Quite a distance, especially in a time when most transportation was by foot.
probably because he didn't look like an enslaved Hebrew.
Yes no doubt he had on the Princely fashion of the times . Strange though that he could speak to one (or another) of his father - in - laws in Hebrew but had to have Aarron speak to the Israelites because he didn't know the language.
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@Goldtop
Enki and his servant Isimud come up with a pr-arranged cover story for if or when these (now pregnant) girls produce offspring, which they did. Isimud the servant tells Enki’s Wife Ninki and his brother Enlil; He“found them”!“among the bulrushes, in reed baskets have I them foundThat should call into question the heritage of Moses, who may have been Egyptian all along and not the son of a Hebrew slave.
Well when we read the scripture Moses is actually said to be Egyptian! I know, incredible.. LOOK>>
Exodus 2:18-19
18 And when they came to Reuel their father, he said, How is it that ye are come so soon to day?
19 And they said, An Egyptian delivered us out of the hand of the shepherds, and also drew water enough for us, and watered the flock.
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@PGA2.0
26 threads and one not included onIsalm (#27), the rest on Christianity.
Well if you’re so upset about all the attention Christianity is receiving then start your own thread on Islam. WHY HAVEN’T YOU DONE SO??? I will be happy to discuss that barbaric ideology with you.
I would say you have a focus, anagenda, which is fine, but the problem, whenever I read one of your threads, is that you take verses out of context or read your own interpretation into the verse.
Yes "out of context" seems to be your only argument without having to face the problem head on. it is ALLLLLWAYYYYS someone else who doesn't understand with you lot. It is never EVER you who are at fault is it???
You and others keep charging there is no evidence and when I present some for discussion and invite you to test it,you ignore it.
No, is all you do is quote other unreliable verses from the same unreliable source which counts for nothing I am afraid.
I SUGGEST, THAT YOU GO UP PAGE AND READ CAREFULLY MY RESPONSE TO YOU AT POST #10
BETTER STILL, HERE IT IS , READ IT YOU CLOWN>.
Since I have been censored and blocked from responding to Stephen's threads by Stephen I will establish my own thread in response to his allegations since he responds to my posts on these threads, then does not give me the courtesy to respond to his.
What are you doing now if not responding, you clown? Congratulations!!!! As you have eventually worked out for yourself, there is absolutely no way that I could stop you responding to me in any way. The block facility on this sight is laughable as you have proven. You can still respond on any given thread in question itself, there is nothing stopping you at all. It just won't show who you are quoting. I have been blocked by many here, but it hasn't stopped me posting on the thread I have been blocked. So stop crying and whining.
I am not interested in what you in particular have to stay for many reasons. (1) you never stay on track. (2) you post responses that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic. (3) you bombard and clutter up my threads with SO MUCH absolute nonsense that there should be a rule against it.
It is hard to complain about this sort of rude behaviour as one can only flag the post but not give a reason for flagging it. It leaves one with the single option of simply "blocking" you.
I could take this post of yours as a personal attack as it , like a few others now, have been directed at me personally, with my name in your title and two of those are authored by >>>>>> YOU<<<<<<<<. I don't mind. I can always ignore , you see, I have been created with a built in Ignore facility that I can switch on or off at any given time I choose to. Brilliant isn't it!!!!! ? I bet you wish were created with one , don't you?
But I won't whinge and whine and throw my rattle out of the pram. I have been given warnings twice simply for calling someone stupid, so the only thing that I will complain about is if someone calls me stupid, which is often and so I must be driving the mods up the wall for keeping them on overtime
He mocks Christianity
I may appear to be mocking Christianity. But highlighting biblical flaws and biblical contradictions is not mockery. I don't think you know or understand the difference. I will admit to highlighting some very silly and contradictory biblical verses, but this is , after all, a religion forum to discuss religion. I will also admit that some theist here do actually invite "mockery" AND ridicule, for statements not only the bible makes, but for statements they make but never ever back up. You are of the opinion that by you simply quoting unreliable verses in defence of a unreliable verse/s that I have highlighted from the same unreliable source, somehow proves your case and me wrong. it doesn't .
And he borrows from a worldview that can make sense of morality because it contains such a source when he refers to the Christian Scriptures.
Nonsense . It is very rare that I even have to quote any other "worldview" sources than the scriptures themselves. In many cases it takes only seconds to counter one biblical verse with another biblical verse from the same source bible, THAT IS HOW CONTRADICTORY the bible is. The flaws lie with you and the scriptures sunshine. It is not for me to explain away the anomalous, ambiguous, contradictory half stories. Is all I do is highlight what I believe are mistakes, contradiction, and downright lies. It is up to you to scrabble around searching desperately to find a response and or answer., which usually boils down to you and your kind simple changing the scripture and adding a new definition to what is actually written, for which,in my opinion, you would deserve to be "mocked".
Although Stephen understands the biblical requirements he fails to live up to them at all times as does every other human being of accountable/reasoning age.
Oh stop with your back porch preaching. "The lord" requires nothing of me that my parents required of me: to be as good and as honest that I can be.
why would Stephen's "good deeds" outweigh his bad deeds
How do you know that they don't ,you jumped up self serving bible punching narcissist?
or why would he not be guilty of punishment for his wrongs?
Guilty of punishment!!? Don't you mean - deserving of punishment?
Why would he get away without being judged for all the wrongful actions he has done in his life?
Who said I have?. This is where you do actually invite and deserve mockery. You are just like the other religious clowns here. Get over yourself, for god's sake!!!
I am responsible for my actions and no one else. And I take responsibility for my actions, I would not let someone else take my punishment for me when it it is I who deserves the punishment that I am sure you wish on me.
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@Tradesecret
The empty tomb.
An empty tomb is only evidence of an empty tomb not evidence that a dead man lived again.
The eyewitnesses.
Yes by all accounts they witnessed an empty tomb. An empty tomb is only evidence of an empty tomb not evidence that a dead man lived again.
grow up
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@Tradesecret
While I agree that much that is presented in the Christmas story has been embellished,
NEVER!!! You don’t say? It wasn't even in December was it?
this does not distract from the underlying meaning that goes to the core of it...
You hope it doesn’t because these lies- sorry -embellishments only serve to have the opposite effect, they attract attention of a sceptical keen eye.
The core you mentioned is that It is straightforward story about the birth of ”the king of the Jews” who was seen from the off as a threat to the reigning king. That is the core.
It has nothing to do about a child born to bring peace on earth because this birth ended with a barbaric crucifixion, the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple, the destruction of city of the Jerusalem and an end to Judaism as it was known, in 70AD.
this does not distract from the underlying meaning that goes to the core of it... and which most people see when they take thetime to read and understand it.
Which is what exactly.The floor is yours. Let's hear your explanation about what the real "core of the story is then.
Looking at side issues such as the stable and three wise men etc. cetera may well be the high point for some
The embellishments you mean, like “virgin” births and “immaculate conceptions”?
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@PGA2.0
Stephen wrote post 10 aboveI could take this post of yours as a personal attack as it , like a few others now, have been directed at me personally, with my name in your title and two of those are authored by >>>>>> YOU<<<<<<<<. I don't mind. I can always ignore , you see, I have been created with a built in Ignore facility that I can switch on or off at any given time I choose to. Brilliant isn't it!!!!! ? I bet you wish were created with one , don't you?
2. Direct Attack
A direct attack is when, outside the context of a discussion on the topic or of behavior in the course of that discussion, someone posts something negative about a specific member. Generalized complaints about generalized behaviors are not direct attacks. But, for example, a thread specifically calling out a member by name, and speaking negatively about them, is a direct attack. Attack threads will be deleted out of hand.
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@Mopac
If I answered your questions,
But you never do, you absolute clown.
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@Mopac
Yeah, I have plenty of good reason to believe you are dishonest.
I think his dishonesty is apparent to all,
For the Third time now Mopac; I would like you to show the members of this forum where it is that YOU believe I have been lying to the members here. I also now, want you to provide evidence that my alleged "dishonesty is apparent to all".
There should be a rule about people her telling blatant lies about other members and not showing a shred of evidence to support the accusation.
You keep doing this and getting away with it, Mopac.
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@Mopac
Never mind your bullshit explain this blatant lie of yours.
I think his dishonesty is apparent to all,
I have not been "dishonest about anything". And I would like you to show the members of this forum where it is that YOU believe I have been so.
Well, I hope you eventually have a change of heart.
Not while you keep refusing to address my questions, you clown.
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Your atheist thoughts are noted.
I have told you many times now, Witch, I believe these biblical gods existed. I am not sure about those ones you believe in as you don't know where they come from or where they reside? I have asked you many times now to explain this to me but you won't answer. why is that?
And which of your gods commands that you to cut off your nose to spite you Witch face? Is it any of the gods or goddesses that you mention here?>>
--> @Polytheist-Witch wrote: The god Wodan/Odin ... Yule is Mother's Night . Holle in the German tradition shares the lead of the Hunt and the Yule celebration.
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Moses & A Reed Basket, I Heard It All Before, Twice Before.
Well as per usual we come upon yet another story in the Old Testament that was lifted clean out of the Mesopotamian legends.
Yes, again we have yet another incomplete half story from our biblical scribes. It beginswith Exodus 2.1-10. A baby supposedly called Moses is hidden at the river’s edge among rushes and within a few verses he is a grown man and married to Zipporah.2:21. Is all that we are told that he slew an Egyptian between for smiting a Hebrew 2:11-12.
And the Mesopotamian Original:
My changeling mother conceived me: In secret she bare me. She set me in a basket of rushes and with pitch she sealed my lid. She cast me into the river, which rose not over me. The river bore me up and carried me to Akki, the drawer of the water.
Any who has studied ancient Mesopotamian tales will immediately recognise this story to be The Legend of Sharru - kin, who became Sargon the Great 2371- 2316BC.
There is also a similar legend that goes back further than this and also from the Mesopotamian Records.
The story goes that a Mesopotamian lord Ea/Enki, happened across two earthling females. Both these women were offspring of those that had been expelled hundreds of years before. The text tells us;
“And into her [their] womb she [they] took the holy semen by the semen of the lord Enki she was impregnated”.
But there seems to have been a taboo broken soEa/ Enki and his servant Isimud come up with a pr-arranged cover story for if or when these (now pregnant) girls produce offspring, which they did. Isimud the servant tells Enki’s Wife Ninki and his brother Enlil; He“found them”!
“among the bulrushes, in reed baskets have I them found. Ninki to the foundlings a likening took, as her own children he raised them. Adapa she called the foundling boy, the girl she called Titi”.
This earlier legend, one shouldn’t fail to notice, is also reminiscent of the awkward passage theist try to avoid when the can.
That the sons of God/s saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose..... There Were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.Genesis 6:2-4(KJV).
This also seems to have been a taboo as for some odd reason; the god of the bible punishes man for the sins of the sons, his sons. This story then leads us up to the story of Noah also a Mesopotamian rip off.
There seem to be many things wrong with this biblical story of Moses; such as , Why didn't anyone even query where on earth did this Princess obtain a child? No one questioned its parentage?
Moses' father - in - law we are told Exodus 2:18-21 is called Reuel and only five verses later his name changed to Jethro. This to anyone studying these scriptures will not have failed to notice that this is how the Old Testament compilers managed to skip some 400 years of history by leaping not too cleverly, from Reuel, the son of Esau Genesis 36:4 to his descendant Jethro, lord of midian, many generations later.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Your atheist opinion is noted.
Doesn't answer the question, Witch. How about you give it ago just for once. You good at throwing out wide and wild statements but extremely poor at responding when tested on them.
Try again, witch:
I will gladly get banned to get you both banned AGAIN.
Is that a pagan thing? Witch
Sound like cutting off your nose simply to spite your Witch face. Is this what those pagan gods that you praise actually teach you?
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@Polytheist-Witch
I will gladly get banned to get you both banned AGAIN.
Is that a pagan thing? Witch
Sound like cutting off your nose simply to spite your Witch face. Is this what those pagan gods that you prais actually teach you?
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@Tradesecret
Selective Teaching of this kind is and had been the problem. This applies not only to the nativity in Bethlehem but also to any number of incidents in Jesus’ recorded life.Wow! - this amazing and highly insightful statement from the king of "selective teaching".
I am not teaching anything though, am I?
I am simply highlighting the great hypocrisy and contradictions concerning these anomalous, problematic and ambiguous half stories contained in the scriptures. It is for you to do the teaching by answer the questions,if any, that may arise after. Or to debunk with supporting evidence and not just another contradictory verse from the same unreliable source.
So far you have failed to even reasonably answer questions; such as this ambiguous statement from disciples seemingly wanting to commit suicide;
“Let us also go,that we may die with him.” 11:16
I have given my interpretation of what this means, but you gave it a wide berth.
Did they "die" with him? No one knows what happened to these people and after such a profound statement. You see, another loose end to a half story that theist try to explain away with, of all things, another "miracle".
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@Tradesecret
they were writing to their particular audiences in their circumstances.
They were. The intent was to unite the Hellenists and Jews. But they had a big problem as the hierarchy of the Jewish temple and the Jewish population in general actually supported James’ claim to the throne and not Jesus’ after the crucifixion, enter the resurrection scene where the Hellenists in pure Hellenistic tradition invented a dying and rising god, something that seemed to appease the Hellenistic Jews and the Romans at the same time... Something else the gospels are stone cold silent about.
People generally trying to teach a subject are following a set plan and order.
Indeed which is what I have said in the op i.e. misdirection from passages and verses such as this:
Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)
I am sure that the preacher would rather shy away from the violence and torturous nature of " the father" which clearly exists and preach the lie about a different kind of god that loves them. It would surely conflict with what Moses says about "the father" :
The Lord is a man of war: the Lord is his name.Exodus 15:3
You yourself do it even on this site and do so frequently. The fact that others notice this and attract your ire is evidence of it
Don’t be silly. No one has attracted my “ire” as much as would like to believe that it has. I have said many times that I do not care what you think of me, it counts for nothing.. I have told you on more than one occasion, the scriptures are not for me to defend but for you to defend if you choose to. it is this that gets up your nose.
The hypocrisy of some here I find astounding and ridiculously funny at the same time. What you think of me is totally irrelevant.
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I think his dishonesty is apparent to all,
I have not been "dishonest about anything". And I would like you to show the members of this forum where it is that YOU believe I have been so.
he simply throws as much crap against the wall as he can in the hopes that something will stick.
Interesting you should say that seeing that the "so much crap " you speak of comes from the scriptures.
Like this:
1 – Psalm 137:9
“Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”
And this:
Judges 11:30-1, 34-5
“And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, ‘If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, then whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, to be offered up by me as a burnt-offering.’ Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and there was his daughter coming out to meet him with timbrels and with dancing. She was his only child; he had no son or daughter except her. When he saw her, he tore his clothes, and said, ‘Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low; you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.’”
What about this one?
1 Peter 2:18
“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.”
There are hundreds more where those come from.
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Yeeeeeeah, except you don't understand my beliefs or my faith.
I have not or ever have, tried to understand your beliefs. I don't care about your beliefs. That is not the reason I am here.
It is the scriptures that I discuss and my own beliefs as to why I believe they are unreliable, ambiguous, half stories that make no sense. It is up to you if you choose to debunk and contradict my beliefs, views and opinions WITH SUPPORTING EVIDENCE to the contrary, you clown.
No turning that around, you are the one being haughty.
Nothing haughty about my opinions , you clown. I have had to make my stance on these scriptures clear on many occasions , because clowns like you cannot even understand or accept the way I see and read these gospel stories.
You are welcome to debunk and disagree with me, but you never do, with supporting evidence. What you do is continually repeat your boring, nauseating and tedious mantra.
Sorry your pride doesn't allow you to be wrong.
I will always admit when I belive I am wrong but not simply because you say I am wrong. You are a fawning sycophant clown who is simply incapable of working anything out for yourself and are totally reliant on the words of your "elders" who have led you by the hooter from the day you were born. I won't say I feel sorry for you, because I don't. It is the generations to come that I feel sorry for. Those who are going to have there minds poisoned and taken over by religious and devious clowns such as yourself . You believe the church has all the answers- to everything. It doesn't. You are a hypocrite.
So once again:
I am reminded of Jesus to the false priests of the temple:
Matthew 16:3 And in the morning, ‘It will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and lowering.’ O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky, but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
You really are laughable , Mopac
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And yet all four Gospels declare that Jesus is the Son of God.
Indeed, these gospel writers say many things that are not true and are forever putting words into the mouth of Jesus.
That He died to save us from our sin,
I don't think Jesus said he had come to actually die for anyone's "sins".. I would like to see those verses verbatim.
and that He arose again on the third day.
He may have done so. I rose from my sick bed after being on my back for almost a week of influenza. I thought I had " died" too.
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@Polytheist-Witch
someone needs the wood.
Luv it.
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it's never the audience's fault if they don't 'get it' -
I don't agree but your comment is a fair comment.
Does this qualify my point and stance.
I am not religious. I believe these biblical characters existed. I don't accept the bible as it has come down to us - The New Testament in particular. The Old Testament is a book of the historical wars of "gods" and men. It is also about right to rule and bloodlines. Jesus didn't perform a single "miracle". he was building a movement to take on the Romans to deliver ISRAEL from the Roman yoke. The gospelers are hiding facts or they were simply ignorant of the facts i.e. there is a more complete story below the surface of the scriptures. Jesus was alive when they took him from the cross. he was revived in the tomb by his close and secret disciples/ handlers and his brother James also had a claim to the throne.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Considering he now preaches a whole new set of beliefs himself he barely gets his own faith. If he even has any.
Make your mind up Witch !!!!
You have just said this on another thread:; Post 27
At least you finally admit you are an atheist. Lying pig scum
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@Polytheist-Witch
At least you finally admit you are an atheist. Lying pig scum.
I don;t know how I would be pigeonhole, Witch. But I do believe these beings - "lords" / gods existed. So I would say that actually makes me a theist. What say you? and please answer my questions that sprang from your own statement>>
The god Wodan/Odin was the god of Yule
Where does "Wodan/Odin" exist ?
Holle in the German tradition shares the lead of the Hunt and the Yule celebration.
Who is "Holle" and where does Holle exist?
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@Polytheist-Witch
And yet you can't stop asking question you moron.
I think you mean " question___s plural? -Witch.
You are taking your time answering . Why is that? It seems to me that, like most silly theist, you have painted yourself into a corner. BUT, I may be wrong , so let us try again.
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--> @Polytheist-Witch
The god Wodan/Odin was the god of Yule
Where does "Wodan/Odin" exist ?
Holle in the German tradition shares the lead of the Hunt and the Yule celebration.
Who is "Holle" and where does Holle exist?
The floor is all yours me'lady.
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Pleased you did not draw that conclusion.
And I am pleased that you failed to put words into my mouth.
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@Tradesecret
How do you draw such a conclusion?
I haven't. You are saying I have. You should go up page and read what it is that I have actually wrote.
Particularly>>
According to some scholars the word - carpenter - didn't mean what we today take it to mean. This is covered by many biblical authors such as the Jewish scholar Geza Vermes who notes that later Talmudic texts use the word for "carpenter" or "craftsman" - naggar - as a synonym for "teacher, scholar, learned man".
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Since I have been censored and blocked from responding to Stephen's threads by Stephen I will establish my own thread in response to his allegations since he responds to my posts on these threads, then does not give me the courtesy to respond to his.
What are you doing now if not responding, you clown? Congratulations!!!! As you have eventually worked out for yourself, there is absolutely no way that I could stop you responding to me in any way. The block facility on this sight is laughable as you have proven. You can still respond on any given thread in question itself, there is nothing stopping you at all. It just won't show who you are quoting. I have been blocked by many here, but it hasn't stopped me posting on the thread I have been blocked. So stop crying and whining.
I am not interested in what you in particular have to stay for many reasons. (1) you never stay on track. (2) you post responses that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic. (3) you bombard and clutter up my threads with SO MUCH absolute nonsense that there should be a rule against it.
It is hard to complain about this sort of rude behaviour as one can only flag the post but not give a reason for flagging it. It leaves one with the single option of simply "blocking" you.
I could take this post of yours as a personal attack as it , like a few others now, have been directed at me personally, with my name in your title and two of those are authored by >>>>>> YOU<<<<<<<<. I don't mind. I can always ignore , you see, I have been created with a built in Ignore facility that I can switch on or off at any given time I choose to. Brilliant isn't it!!!!! ? I bet you wish were created with one , don't you?
But I won't whinge and whine and throw my rattle out of the pram. I have been given warnings twice simply for calling someone stupid, so the only thing that I will complain about is if someone calls me stupid, which is often and so I must be driving the mods up the wall for keeping them on overtime
He mocks Christianity
I may appear to be mocking Christianity. But highlighting biblical flaws and biblical contradictions is not mockery. I don't think you know or understand the difference. I will admit to highlighting some very silly and contradictory biblical verses, but this is , after all, a religion forum to discuss religion. I will also admit that some theist here do actually invite "mockery" AND ridicule, for statements not only the bible makes, but for statements they make but never ever back up. You are of the opinion that by you simply quoting unreliable verses in defence of a unreliable verse/s that I have highlighted from the same unreliable source, somehow proves your case and me wrong. it doesn't .
And he borrows from a worldview that can make sense of morality because it contains such a source when he refers to the Christian Scriptures.
Nonsense . It is very rare that I even have to quote any other "worldview" sources than the scriptures themselves. In many cases it takes only seconds to counter one biblical verse with another biblical verse from the same source bible, THAT IS HOW CONTRADICTORY the bible is. The flaws lie with you and the scriptures sunshine. It is not for me to explain away the anomalous, ambiguous, contradictory half stories. Is all I do is highlight what I believe are mistakes, contradiction, and downright lies. It is up to you to scrabble around searching desperately to find a response and or answer., which usually boils down to you and your kind simple changing the scripture and adding a new definition to what is actually written, for which,in my opinion, you would deserve to be "mocked".
Although Stephen understands the biblical requirements he fails to live up to them at all times as does every other human being of accountable/reasoning age.
Oh stop with your back porch preaching. "The lord" requires nothing of me that my parents required of me: to be as good and as honest that I can be.
why would Stephen's "good deeds" outweigh his bad deeds
How do you know that they don't ,you jumped up self serving bible punching narcissist?
or why would he not be guilty of punishment for his wrongs?
Guilty of punishment!!? Don't you mean - deserving of punishment?
Why would he get away without being judged for all the wrongful actions he has done in his life?
Who said I have?. This is where you do actually invite and deserve mockery. You are just like the other religious clowns here. Get over yourself, for god's sake!!!
I am responsible for my actions and no one else. And I take responsibility for my actions, I would not let someone else take my punishment for me when it it is I who deserves the punishment that I am sure you wish on me.
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@PGA2.0
And that is just it. You are a smart guy, but you are in a religious box, IMO.
Cough, splutter kettle cough, choke, black choke, cough splutter calling, splutter pot, choke splutter cough. Excuse me while I clean up my keyboard!
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@janesix
Some of us are interested in other's religions and their practices.
Indeed they are, me included. But I don't consider myself to "matter enough" to "effect the religious practice" of poly Witch.
I hope that has cleared that up.
This is what she wrote:
-> @Polytheist-Witch wrote: Why does anyone here think they would matter enough to effect my religious practice.
Do you understand my point now , jane?
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@Polytheist-Witch
My religion isn't about anyone's feeling but the gods.
Who are your "gods"? Where do they exist? Where do they originate from?
Why does anyone here think they would matter enough to effect my religious practice.
Why are you so convinced anyone wants to even consider or even be concerned about your "religious practice"?
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Islamists kill many more Muslims than they do Christians.
They kill many thousands of christians too. Syria's Christian community that goes back 2,000 years has been almost decimated. And thousands more have had to flee their homes. thousands more murdered in northern Iraq where they have been persecuted for years. Turkey too. Not to mention the Philippines and Indonesia where christians are still being beheaded and churches are being destroyed. So,don't start playing statistics, prosser. The only reason muslims kill many other muslims is sectarian. Islamic sectarianism is put to one side and they become brothers in arms against a "common enemy" the kuffar- non believer when some mad mullah decides he doesn't like book or a cartoon.
And by trying to categorie and pigeonhole muslims with language such as "islamist" and "moderates" is simply trying to cloak the barbarity of Islam and put it all down to just a "few muslims", it doesn't work. Many people have started to learn for themselves about Islam since the 9/11 atrocities and have found out for themselves that Islam contrary, to what our world leaders wish us to believe and almost order us to believe, is not a religion of peace.
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@PGA2.0
The Conservative Party In my country is made up largely of Christians. We, as Christians pray to raise concerns about Christian persecution around the world every day, not just there.
But you hadn’t even been aware of it until yesterday. And I am not convinced that you will "raise concerns" simply by praying to "raise concerns". Do you not realise how silly that sounds?
Christian communities also take actions like inform their members of parliament of these situations.
Good, then now you are aware of Bibi's plight then tell us what you have done and when you have done it. I understand that you have started to pray since yesterday, but do not rely on prayer alone, she could be dead before you even get to your next amen.<<<<<< that is not mocking, it is a fact.
We, as Christians also realize that we will be hated
You are not hated by me so keep that tar brush to yourself or save it for Muslims, who make no secret about what they think of Christians and Jews.
You assume the Christian community is not being vocal about it.
That right I do. Like I said, you hadn’t even heard about the plight of Bibi until yesterday. So let us know how vocal you and your brethren are going to be over the coming weeks. I mentioned myself that you’re Christian government are in “talks”. Any news about that by the way? What’s happening, Have you enquired about Bibi's welfare as I have done?
The whole system in Pakistan stinks of religious intolerance, not the kind of faith that is loving.
Yes, that will be Islam,the one Justin – “people-kind” Trudeau can’t help licking up to.
the world is evil and that God is ultimately in control. What happens does so for a purpose.
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is what I find offensive about religion and "god"!!!.
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Christmas& Why Bullshit has Become Christian Dogma.
Over century’s speculation, guesswork and downright lies about biblical content have now become church dogma. Certain doctrines have been integrated into western society as if they are positive facts.
Children,and dare I say it, some adults are rarely told or know that Matthew says Mary was a virgin but Mark does not; or that Luke mentions the manger in which Jesus is placed whereas none of the other gospels do not; or that not one gospel makes even the vaguest reference to the stable which has become such an integral part of popular tradition.
Mark, as mentioned, makes not a single reference to a “virgin birth”. The Gospels of Matthew and Luke mention it in varying degrees and John thinks it is so insignificant and unimportant that he ignores it altogether.
Selective Teaching of this kind is and had been the problem. This applies not only to the nativity in Bethlehem but also to any number of incidents in Jesus’ recorded life.
Christian Children have been taught a story that has been smoothed over, a tale that extracts the most entertaining features from each gospel and merges them into a single embellished tale that was never written by anyone..
Children and students alike are told to turn to such and such a chapter and read such and such a verse, they are directed to what “the bible says” and, by doing this whole pseudo gospel has been concocted. Indeed, while this sleight of hand is being performed right in front the eyes of the student he/she will never realise that this is a purposeful misdirection from the more awkward verses that are far more uncomfortable and complicated to explain than those of the fairy tail they have been led to believe since childhood.
This “miracle” is mentioned in only two of the four gospels and nowhere else in the New Testament And the student not knowing this because of the way he /she has been instructed to “read” the bible would never know, and therefore never have the chance to question why such a marvellous and "miraculous" event was not mentioned by these other men of god, Mark & John, it is after all, at the very heart of Christian tradition.
Merry Christmas.
Stephen
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Ali Salah Muhammad Muktada Al Bibi Putna Mitkah RekhalahSmith
isbecoming quite popular here good ole' blighty.
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@rosends
Sure there is a need to respond. You are ignoring what the LOR says.
I posted what it says here it is again. It is all to do with the MATERNAL and nothing to do with the PATERNAL/
HERE>>> "I think I remember reading once that one isn't a " real" Jew unless born of a Jewish thoroughbred mother." #39
The link I posted states ""Israel's Law of Return stipulates that a Jew is someone with a Jewish mother". #42
So its all to do with the MATERNAL and NOT the PATERNAL..LOOK>>>
The Israeli Chief Rabbinate requires documents proving the Jewishness of one’s mother, grandmother, great-grandmother and great-great-grandmother when applying for marriage.
So from memory, I wasn't far off. Now go and play your silly semantics on someone else.
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@rosends
Don't waste my time with semantics. it agrees with what I stated what " I thought I remembered".
HERE>>> "I think I remember reading once that one isn't a " real" Jew unless born of a Jewish thoroughbred mother." #39
The link I posted states ""Israel's Law of Return stipulates that a Jew is someone with a Jewish mother". #42
So its all to do with the MATERNAL and NOT the PATERNAL..LOOK>>>
The Israeli Chief Rabbinate requires documents proving the Jewishness of one’s mother, grandmother, great-grandmother and great-great-grandmother when applying for marriage.
So from memory that wasn't at off or even near off it was right on the money. There is no need to respond to this post.
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@rosends
I'm not sure where you read that (unless you happen to read Syrian). Under Jewish law, people can convert to Judaism and be as much a "real" Jew (whatever that is) as any other Jew.
looks like we both have a case. I just quickly searched this
"Israel's Law of Return stipulates that a Jew is someone with a Jewish mother or someone who has converted to Judaism and is not a member of another religion".The Israeli Chief Rabbinate requires documents proving the Jewishness of one’s mother, grandmother, great-grandmother and great-great-grandmother when applying for marriage. The Office of the Chief Rabbi (OCR) has underlined the basic principle that a child is not recognised by the OCR and other bodies as Jewish unless his or her mother is Jewish, or they underwent a conversion recognized by the body.
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@keithprosser
Well this thread is about Israel being a chosen people and it seems not just any gentile riff raff like me could be a part of IS- RA -EL.
I think I remember reading once that one isn't a " real" Jew unless born of a Jewish thoroughbred mother. Or it could have been a real Egyptian born in Egypt of an Egyptian mother?
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@keithprosser
I would look to this sort of thing as a less fanciful grounds for the cattle-keeping Egyptians
Yes you probably would and I believe that you have purposely missed the point prosser?
It wasn't that they were literal shepherds, (although they must have owned sheep) you clown. It was because they worshipped another god, The god whose sign in the sky was the Aries, the Ram. Whereas the god of gods in Egypt was Amen whose sign was the BULL , Taurus. This is not "fanciful" these are facts.
The ancients were obsessed with astronomy/astrology, everything was to do with the sky/the heavens and whose time it was to rule was one of them. Jesus knew the puppet priests didn't have a clue as to who's time it was to rule because they hadn't been taught the " secrets of the heavens" ASTRONOMY! The wars began when one house refused to relinquish power to the incoming house as was the rules dictated thousand of years ago when "the heavens" were first mapped out.. This is what split Israel eventually until David reunited the tribes for a war against the Hittites he knew he couldn't win alone and Just as Jesus was attempting to do.
Luke 12:56 Hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky. How is it that you don't know how to interpret this present time? The present AGE in other words.
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@keithprosser
I just thought you might want to accuse me of not having a view. :)
Why would I? You have made your " views" extremely plain. You don't believe in a Jesus that performed miracles - neither do I.
But you are not always as forthcoming on other matters where answers have to be prised out of you. You may get a high from that , but whatever peels your banana , I suppose.
Why should you have to keep repeating yourself, like you often cause me to have to do. Such as above. I made my position on Jesus and the scriptures very clear on many occasions from day one, but it doesn't seem to stop you or others continually asking my stance on these matters..
I am not religious. I believe these biblical characters existed. I don't accept the bible as it has come down to us - The New Testament in particular. The Old Testament is a book of the historical wars of "gods" and men. It is also about right to rule and bloodlines. Jesus didn't perform a single "miracle". he was building a movement to take on the Romans to deliver ISRAEL from the Roman yoke. The gospelers are hiding facts or they were simply ignorant of the facts i.e. there is a more complete story below the surface of the scriptures. Jesus was alive when they took him from the cross. he was revived in the tomb by his close and secret disciples/ handlers and his brother James also had a claim to the throne.
Maybe I should prefixe all my responses and replies with all the above bold? what do you think?
And Jesus believed it was his turn to rule because "it is written" by the signs in the sky which is exactly what happened hundreds of thousands of years before when a mesopotamian lord believed his sign had come around and it was his time to rule and that caused a massive war too.
AND it hasn't stopped since, keith, it continues to this very day.
Anyway. I am still wondering why someone would dedicate a thread to me personally? It is the second time this has happened - https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/399
And I am wondering if this is a direct personal attack on me and my opinions or they are simply curious as to where I actually stand ? God knows how many times I have made my position clear but it seems that people believe by asking the same questions they will somehow miraculously get a different answer.
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@keithprosser
my favourite theologian is marcion of sinope who gave up trying to reconcile the OT and NT and wrote that there are or were two gods,(ie not one)and threw out the OT entirely. Perhaps the most surprising thing is that he wasn't burned at the stake for it!
I agree, and even now, in this new age, christians, I believe are worshiping the wrong god.
It is all to do with "houses" and which "god" is the ruler of any given age. i.e Abraham,Moses = Ram = Aries who supported the god of that house and this is why that there are many references to the "ram", "rams horns" ect is mentioned many times during this period in the OT.. Before this period it was the age of Taurus, the Bull and the gods supported by the Pharaohs. You may recall, when the Hebrews were starving and wondering through the parched desert and fed up of Moses barking orders and going awol every other day, they decided it was time they went back to supporting the "old god" and made a calf/bull of gold.
There is also this verse that gives a clue to what was actually going on when Joseph - he of many colours - Genesis 46:33-34 tells is shepherd family to lie to Pharaoh, saying:
"And it shall come to pass, when Pharaoh shall call you, and shall say, What is your occupation?"
"That ye shall say, Thy servants' trade hath been about cattle from our youth even until now, both we, and also our fathers: that ye may dwell in the land of Goshen; for every shepherd is an abomination unto the Egyptians".
There of course is only one explanation for Pharaoh believing every shepherd to be an "abomination". It is because the shepherds supported the Ram god of the house of Aries.
When Jesus entered the picture that age was coming to an end and the house of the Fish,Pisces was on the horizon. this is why we have many references to fish and fishermen and people being made fishers of men etc.
Now by all accounts, the age of the fish has also passed. And an interesting clue to that maybe that when a pope dies normally his ring is destroyed and a new "fisherman's ring" is issued to the newly elected Pope. But not in the last case. The fisherman's ring of Pope Benedict XVI was kept and put into the vatican museum where it is on public view. Interesting also is that Benedict retired, when these posts are supposed to be until death. He was the first pope to retire in over 600 years. Those that "retired" before are suspicious as to whether they were pushed or they jumped.
AND
I don't believe that is was any coincidence that in the same timeframe that the Pope stood down that Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams decided to retire too.
AND
who can forget this little telling gem from jesus?
Luke 12:56 Hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky. How is it that you don't know how to interpret this present time?
What a giveaway!
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@keithprosser
How do you reconcile Matthew 28?
Not for me to "reconcile", is it. But of course, as per usual, nations meant something slightly different BC early AD than it does today. Over half the references to "nations" in the OT are negative, ex, Leviticus 18:28 it meant vomit. A "drop in a bucket" and "dust on the scales"Isaiah 40:15. "Slaves" in Leviticus 25:44.
But I think it can be safely said that in this instance it means tribes. It was a uniting mission,exactly as King David had done that Jesus was trying to achieve. He knew he couldn't take on the Romans with the nations/tribes divided. So " Therefore go and make disciples of all nations," could easily be interpreted as - 'go out to all the tribes of Israel and bring back the lost sheep into the sheepfold' - as it clearly states "I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel."
It is for the theist to reconcile this:
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
with this>>
Matthew 10:5-6
These Twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, [anyone NOT of Jacob /Israel from whom the 12 tribes came] and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
And we have a clue here when god is said to have told Abram renamed Abraham;>
Genesis 12:2 "I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing.
Well when we read that, we see the 12 tribes that sprang from him eventually created one great tribe/nation : ISRAEL.
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@PGA2.0
Having said all that, I do not doubt that God still performs miracles. His providence allows things to happen both good and bad to believers in this world.
You say this as if only those who believe in god and Jesus and miracles can do benevolent acts. This is what I just cannot stand about you lot. You believe that you have the monopoly on morals and ethics, believing only the " devout religious" can perform good deeds. I am not religious in the slightest. But I do and my family does perform "good deeds" on a daily basis, without having to be prompted to do so by Jesus or a god or a hypocrite preacher.
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@Mopac
You don't really understand my beliefs, nor do you understand the Orthodox faith is or what it teaches.
You lot just cannot help yourselves, can you. It is ALWAYS and without exception, the other person who "doesn't understand", not once in your haughty arrogance would you even consider that you and your teachers could just possibly be wrong, EVER!
I am reminded of Jesus to the false priests of the temple:
Matthew 16:3 And in the morning, ‘It will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and lowering.’ O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky, but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
You really are laughable , Mopac
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@keithprosser
So your position is, say, Jesus Appeared to walk on water but it was a conjurer's trick?
You said it right there – “appeared to”.
In your opinion, did he rise from the dead?
No. and he didn't raise the dead either. Not the literal dead, as I have explained here> Lazarus. The "raising".
in case your wondering, i prefer to consider them pure fictions.
I wasn't wondering. And I have never said otherwise and you suggesting I have is simply deceit on your part.
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@keithprosser
Can we discuss Islam? Of course we can,
So?
but could Muslims discuss Christianity to any great depth?
What is stopping them?
How much do people know about Shia/Sunni split, for instance.
I know. And it would take seconds for anyone interested to find out in this age of the internet, now would it. Besides there may well be a split but muslims are all under the umbrella of Islam. It is a case of - I can call my sister a whore- but if you do, I will have your head off.
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@keithprosser
Mixing truth with lies is the way forward for any organisation or movement to further the cause. In other words and in this case scriptural half truths and half stories to further the cause of christianity, as I have been saying since the day I joined this forum.We agree on that much! But I presume we differ in our interpretation of the mystical and miraculous elements.
There are no "mystical and miraculous elements" in the bible to my knowledge. I have ALSO said this many many many many many may times now, since the day I joined this forum..
I believe many of the so called "mystical and miraculous elements" can be explained, and I believe I have explained many of them. Most of these "miracles", water into wine , raising the dead etc, are simple rites and rituals that go back thousands of years before Jesus. And many are still practiced today in modern freemasonry.
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@RationalMadman
Stephen, ............strategised propaganda to make you happy to sit back and forgive tyrants as they pillage your family and friends and own you, replacing your flag and values
Your preaching to the converted. i know what the strategy behind these scriptures is.
. Islam is the inverse of this;
I know enough about Islam to understand it is the most vile barbaric ideology ever foisted onto humankind. Why don't you start a thread on islam. I would be happy to indulge you, but you already know my stance on the subject now don't you?
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