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@Mopac
. as many people Iknow profess they are, they come unstuck when trying to explain what and whythey find the scriptures "inspiring"?
I personally find theepistles to be very edifying and inspirational.
This does not explain what and why you find the scriptures "inspiring". Address the question above, you clown.
The saints are prettyinspiring if you ask me.
This does not explain what and why you find the scriptures "inspiring". Address the question above, you clown.
You obviously don't understand the question so tell me : What is it that following biblical verse inspires you to do? or think? of act? and behave? and why?
"When a man sells hisdaughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the menare. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to bebought back again."
Exodus 21: 7-8
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@Castin
When are you gonna pick a profile picture, man.
I did try but mine keeps failing for some reason.
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Who can blame the church from wanting to distance itself from BIBLE verses such as these that they have been preaching for millennia?
"When a man sells hisdaughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the menare. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to bebought back again."
Exodus 21: 7-8
Exodus 21: 7-8
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@Mopac
"There emerged in the Orthodox Tradition the position that the Bible is the record of truth, not the truth itself.. According to the Church Fathers, the truth itself is God alone." ~Father Theodore Stylianopoulos, Professor of New Testament at Holy Cross School of Theology
This should come as no surprise to anyone with a brain cell.
Indeed. This is clearly the church back peddling simply because of all the flaws 21st century man can point out in the bible. This is a pure case of distancing the works of HUMANS and what the church has been preaching over the centuries, from what they call god and what they NOW wish "god" to be.
They and the bible have been exposed and they know it.
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@Mopac
This was not a song written by God, it was a song written to God by someone who was VERY HUMAN.
“ VERY HUMAN” INDEED! I agree, I have said so above it is the work of men. VERY HUMAN men. Did you miss that above? you Clown. But somehow it has ended up in “god's good book”.
Do you think that this extremely violent verse about "smashing children's heads against rocks" Psalm 137:9 KJV, should be redacted?
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@Mopac
The church is the proper interpreter of scripture not you.
Men you mean. Men didall of the “interpreting, from Mesopotamian Cuneiform to Syriac to Aramaic to Greek to Latin And finally English and ALL DONE BY MEN/ HUMANS
Imagine all the mistakes, all the misunderstood words, the misspellings and all the bias over the millennia that have crept into what you call the “interpretation” by the church. You really are a clown.
Really, you don't even have the right to appeal to scripture, because it doesn't belong to you.
I have every right to read and comment on these extremely unreliable scriptures.
This was not a song written by God, it was a song written to God by someone who was VERY HUMAN.
“ VERY HUMAN” INDEED! I agree, I have said so above it is the work of men. Did you miss that above? you Clown. But somehow it has ended up in “god's good book”. Do you think that this extremely violent verse about "smashing children's heads against rocks" Psalm 137:9 KJV, should be redacted?
Yet the Church teaches to bless those who curse you and repay not evil with evil.
Is calling you a fawning clown a evil curse? And Should a woman standby and defend her husband who is being attacked?
You are like the ancient Romans who accused Christians of cannibalism because they didn't understand the mystery of the Eucharist.
More personal attacks.You just cannot help yourself can you clown. try addressing the op.
I forgive you. It Would be better for you in the end if you repented and turned away from your wickedness.
For the 4th time, Address the thread or leave it. Tell me what has inspired you about the bible? How does it inspire you? What does it inspire you to do. I didn’t ask your you forgivenessand I won’t be repenting for anything anytime soon.
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@BrutalTruth
From your post 32 above - this leapt from the page:.
Most Christians are brainwashed from their early childhood to see the bible as "the good book," and therefore read it with bias instead of objectively.
I have always insisted he that church /preachers will only ever steer the reader - children in particular away - from these inconvenient contradictory vile and violent biblical verses and always steer them towards the verses that appear to be more compatible with the loving "father" Jesus seems to be talking about. I agree, this is “brainwashing”.
Anyone who isn't already a Christian who reads the Christian bible, and has any sense of morality, would be utterly disgusted with the notion of worshiping the monster depicted within.
I agree. The Old Testament starts almost immediately with conflict between two gods; it escalates very quickly into violence and warfare and doesn’t stop until the end with mankind taking sides with one god or another and dying by their millions for their misguided loyalty and blind faith.
Yours was an excellent post, BT, And one I entirely agree with. 10/10
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There are more than just Christian theists.
Yes there are, poly. Whats ya point?
And you said the gods left.
Yes I did say the GOD'S plural.
Poly, your opening comment on this thread was at post 4 which read:
And in response to your comment, at post 4, I wrote:
I believe gods plural existed, at one time. But left here thousands of years ago after some great catastrophe.
Notice that ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Poly? I said, the>>>>>>>>>>>>> GODS<<<<<<<<<<<<< left. NOT HUMANS as you have begun to insist I said.
So you think Earthling few away?
Idiot.
How you first get "aliens" and then "humans" confused with the word " gods" poly, I too find idiotic.
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@Polytheist-Witch
So the Earthlings didn't fly away and they aren't aliens. Sound theory.
I didn't say they did and I didn't say they are. You asked if they were aliens, not me. poly. Go back and read my post 34
This is what I wrote:
I believe gods plural existed, at one time. But left here thousands of years ago after some great catastrophe.For the gods have abandoned uslike migrating birds they have gone.Ur is destroyed, bitter is its lamentThe country's blood now fills its holes like hot bronze in a mould.Bodies dissolve like fat in the sun. Our temple is destroyed.Smoke lies on our city like a shroud.Blood flows as the river doesthe lamenting of men and womensadness abounds.From M Wood TV Documentary Legacy - The Origins of Civilization 1991Interesting that they say "like birds", don't you think?
So. it is the pole left on earth in UR mesopotamia who talk of the gods leaving/ flying away.
The fact you think all theists have some stake in the Bible or should is beyond me.
I suppose it would be "beyond you" poly. You don't have anything to do with it do you? you haven't read it have you?
Theist do have a massive stake in the bible, It is their holy book, they swear by it and on it. Simply start a thread and ask them yourself, but don't forget to ask them why they have a stake in the bible.
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@Mopac
I am not a Roman Catholic.
I didn't say you are but I see AGAIN that you have completely missed the title of this thread and continued on your glorious path of fawning christian sycophantic propaganda without a single thought for the op.
You just cannot help yourself can you.
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@Polytheist-Witch
So you think Earthling few away?
I haven't said that have I. do you actually read a post before you respond to it poly?
LOL yet theists are stupid.
Some are absolute fawning clowns, yes
I don't care about the Bible.
Yes , you have made that clear. i suppose it is a get out for you, as you cannot be questioned on something you haven't read or not interested in can you? That would be unfair, wouldn't it?.
Your constant filling every post with it is stupid.
With what. The thread is about atheists, This thread is in a Religion subforum. What else would you expect to be posted and discussed in a Religion subforumum ,poly?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Non profits get tax breaks. All non profits.
They do. I think a lot of charities get tax breaks. So. What is your point..
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The Red Cross hasn't been religious in a long time. Do some research.
I didn't say it had. I said :
"Governments of the western world give billions too from the taxes of people's hard earned take home pay. The Red Cross springs to mind". In other words The red cross depends on GOVERNMENT MONEY RAISED BY TAXES of the people. Get it now, poly?
The Red Cross is paid for by taxes. Not church charities. That was my point. Church/ christian charities are nothing extra special just because donations come from the church to aid and assist the needy.
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Not had a single warning.
Yet I have had two
Unless they are secret and you have been made privy to them.
I asked you if you had because I have HAD TWO and you called me "stupid".
And you did say aliens
No, you said aliens first, You introduced "aliens" into this thread poly, not me.. SEE YOUR POST 35 ABOVE
Added: 11.20.18 12:06PM
The Bible is not for non Christians.
It is for anyone who decides to read it. They either believe it or they don't. I happen to believe it to be a book of ancient gods, a book of the wars of those gods fought by men duped into fighting wars of gods who couldn't live in peace amongst themselves because of the continued struggle for power. In other words a book of ancient history of gods and men and war. Try reading it. Once you get past the creation story, the wars do not stop AT ALL! from beginning to end of the OT.
Any idiot knows that.
See above poly. No need to keep referring to me as an "idiot". I am not. I just don't believe the bible as it has come down to us is a complete work.
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@Mopac
That's a shame, because by in large, Christian charities are actually the ones who are going out and feeding people.
Like the death rooms of calcutta once run by a greedy nun. Governments of the western world give billions too from the taxes of people's hard earned take home pay. The Red Cross springs to mind. The church is nothing special when it comes to "charity".
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Here is one for you, since you have issues with suspension of disbelief and reading scripture...
The bible asks us to suspend reality and the laws of nature quite often to my knowledge. Virgin birth, parting waves, water into wine, talking snakes, wooden poles turning into serpents, walking on water, a few loaves and fishes feeding multiple thousands of people, and etc etc
"Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
Yes historian Eusebius said something similar when the awkward question of Jesus' lineage was brought into question. As you well know that right away at the "virgin birth" there is a contradiction between Matthew and Luke concerning the genealogies of Jesus. Matthew and Luke give two contradictory genealogies for Joseph (Matthew 1:2-17 and Luke 3:23-38).
Indeed apologist fanatic Eusebius has this to say when confronted with this Jesus genealogical dilema;
"each believer has been only too eager to dilate at length on these passages”. Eusebius, The History of the Church.
This translates : Stop looking too hard with your eyes wide open and ignore them altogether as they raise far too many questions. Eusebius understood perfectly the big problem this would cause the church.
Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
One does not have to take on a religion or be part of a church to meet the command above.
From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm."
And still you haven't told me why any these verse in particular inspire you. Inspire you to do what? to be what, and how do they inspire you.
And how do those few fluffy lines about "pure heart" "faith" and "love" square with a god who of the bible says:
Exodus 15: 3 The Lord is a man of war: the Lord is his name.
Or what about this vile verse from Psalms of the bible:
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. Psalm 137:9 KJV
Why would god or anyone who talks about "pure heart" "faith" and "love" one one hand and the next spew violent and sickening such as those highlighted above.
Why would god or anyone who talks about "pure heart" "faith" and "love" one one hand and the next spew violent and sickening such as those highlighted above.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I give to a food bank run and organised by volunteers. I wouldn't give to a religious charity if my life depended upon it.
They just love their observatories and telescopes costing ££££ billions all donated by parishioners who are in fear of going to hell.
The vatican's latest new baby is called
L.U.C.I.F.E.R.
“L.U.C.I.F.E.R., which stands for “Large Binocular Telescope Near-infrared Utility with Camera and Integral Field Unit for Extragalactic Research,” is a chilled instrument attached to a telescope in Arizona. And yes, it’s named for the Devil, whose name itself means “morning star” [and which] happens to be right next to the Vatican Observatory on Mt. Graham in Tucson”.
Built on sacred Indian Burial ground the LBT observing instruments split into single beam instruments receiving light from one primary mirror only, and instruments combining the beams of the two mirrors while conserving their phase relation (interferometers). Each of the two telescopes is equipped with three single beam instruments: a prime focus camera, an optical spectrograph (MODS), and a near-infrared instrument (LUCI, formerly LUCIFER).
The 1.8 meter Alice P. Lennon Telescope and its Thomas J. Bannan Astrophysics Facility, known together as the Vatican Advanced Technology Telescope (VATT), is a Gregorian telescope observing in the optical and infrared which achieved ‘first light’, the first starlight to pass through the telescope onto a detector, in 1993.
VATT is part of the Mount Graham International Observatory situated on Mount Graham in southeast Arizona, and is operated by the Vatican Observatory, one of the oldest astronomical research institutions in the world, in partnership with The University of Arizona.
“L.U.C.I.F.E.R., which stands for “Large Binocular Telescope Near-infrared Utility with Camera and Integral Field Unit for Extragalactic Research,” is a chilled instrument attached to a telescope in Arizona. And yes, it’s named for the Devil, whose name itself means “morning star” [and which] happens to be right next to the Vatican Observatory on Mt. Graham in Tucson”.
VATT is part of the Mount Graham International Observatory situated on Mount Graham in southeast Arizona, and is operated by the Vatican Observatory, one of the oldest astronomical research institutions in the world, in partnership with The University of Arizona.
One has to wonder, that considering everything is supposed in gods hands and all going to his plan, what is it they believe they are doing peering into god's own living room. Still I suppose it went some way to pardoning Galileo eventually in 1992!!! took them long enough didn't it?
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@Polytheist-Witch
I think you shouldn't make fun of theists
I don't make fun of them although in watching some of them trying to explain what someone meant or was thinking over 2,000-6,000 years ago is comical at times and I do believe some of the theist here act like clowns.
with your silly story.
What silly story ,poly? It was you that brought "aliens" into the mix.
You asked me a question, I batted it back with biblical text and asked you to explain what you think is meant by those biblical verses concerning heaven.
And the Bible means nothing to my religion.
Well that is handy for you then, isn't it.
Idiot.
I have had two official warnings about calling someone and "idiot", have you?
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@Polytheist-Witch
So the aliens did it.
You tell me. I have been taught that anything coming down /descending to our planet Earth from outside our atmosphere would be called "alien". I am sure you agree.
Some texts speak of "god's coming down" or "descending" and ascending. This is sometimes, to some. simply means coming from a high place such as a mountain. Some believe it to mean the North or the Northern hemisphere. Some say the high place is "heaven" or "the heavens" such as all of those many biblical verses.
So instead of your sarcasm why not open your mind a little bit further and see if you can work out from the biblical verses where these gods are coming from and let us all know.
The LORDcame down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.
Genesis 11:7
"Come,let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will notunderstand one another's speech."
Exodus 19:11
and letthem be ready for the third day, for on the third day the LORD will come downon Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people.
Exodus 19:20
The LORDcame down on Mount Sinai, to the top of the mountain; and the LORD called Mosesto the top of the mountain, and Moses went up.
Exodus 34:5
The LORDdescended in the cloud and stood there with him as he called upon the name ofthe LORD.
Exodus 19:18Now MountSinai was all in smoke because the LORD descended upon it in fire; and itssmoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quakedviolently.
2 Samuel 22:10
"Hebowed the heavens also, and came down With thick darkness under His feet.
Psalm 18:9
He bowedthe heavens also, and came down With thick darkness under His feet.
Isaiah 64:3
Psalm 144:5
Bow Yourheavens, O LORD, and come down; Touch the mountains, that they may smoke.
Isaiah 64:1
Verse Concepts
Oh, thatYou would rend the heavens and come down, That the mountains might quake atYour presence--
Proverbs 30:4
Who hasascended into heaven and descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Whohas wrapped the waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of theearth? What is His name or His son's name? Surely you know!
1 Thessalonians 4:16
For theLord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of thearchangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
Hosea 11:4
Forbehold, the LORD is coming forth from His place He will come down and tread onthe high places of the earth.
Psalm 113:6
Whohumbles Himself to behold The things that are in heaven and in the earth?
Mark 1:10
Immediatelycoming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like adove descending upon Him;
John 1:32
No one has ever gone into heaven except theone who came from heaven--the Son of Man.
For I came down from heaven, notto do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Atheist definitely don't think gods exist.
I believe gods plural existed, at one time. But left here thousands of years ago after some great catastrophe.
For the gods have abandoned uslike migrating birds they have gone.Ur is destroyed, bitter is its lamentThe country's blood now fills its holes like hot bronze in a mould.Bodies dissolve like fat in the sun. Our temple is destroyed.Smoke lies on our city like a shroud.Blood flows as the river doesthe lamenting of men and womensadness abounds.From M Wood TV Documentary Legacy - The Origins of Civilization 1991
Interesting that they say "like birds", don't you think? The area itself, is strewn to this day, with crushed, burnt, and blackened rocks: they contain highly unusual ration of isotope uranium-235, indicating in expert opinions exposure to “sudden immense heat of nuclear origin"
They may have left some mixed race/half god progeny in the form of 'royals' . But I have no evidence for that, Poly
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Jesus is speaking of two different temples with the two passages. In this one, He is speaking of His death (i.e., destruction) and resurrection. That is given in the passage.
Yes I know. I have explained and made that clear that myself you clown. And on that occasion the disciples don't bat an eyelid at the thought of the holiest place on earth to them at the time was going to be destroyed.
The gospel writer tells us He (Jesus) was SPEAKING of the temple of His body, then the writer tells us He said this. What does this refer to?
Yes I know, and you keep telling me I have changed it. I haven't. You say yourself above that;
The gospel writer tells us
How does the gospel writer know what he was talking about, he wasn't even there as you insist he was, and without any evidence to support your claim.
That's the gospel writer putting words into the mouth of Jesus. Jesus doesn't say himself that he is speaking of his body being "THE TEMPLE" does he , you clown? You are trying to force an issue without a single piece of substance.
It is this simple. Jesus HIMSELF does NOT say " by Temple I mean my body" does he? But the GOSPEL writer DOES.
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@Mopac
The saints are pretty inspiring if you ask me.
1 or 2 BIBLICAL Examples would be nice telling me why they inspire you. But please keep in mind the title of this thread. it concerns THE BIBLE and or the PREACHER and not some obscure author that no one had ever heard of.
see lok , take it , understand what it is that I have asked and stop with your preaching and history lessons that have nothing to do with the thread.
LOOK!!!!>>>>>
Are Christians Inspired by the Bible or by The Preacher
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@EtrnlVw
It always surprises me how others see things so differently.
I honestly don't see why that should surprise you. We are now in the 21st century and over the centuries many people have simply woken up to the fact that religion is simply a instrument of control and was a control by fear . Whilst the bible itself is a just a very good book on ancient history.
What "always surprises me" is that many still believe they will be going to the fires of hell because of their conduct in this life. How is it that they forget so quickly that Jesus, it is said, died for our sins to give us everlasting life in paradise/ heaven. God himself, it is said, sacrificed his only son to redeem us from our sins. This is what, among hundreds of other things, "surprises me".
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@Mopac
Stephen doesn't understand
I will tell you what I don't understand. I don't understand why you are giving a history and lecture about the Christian churches splinter groups and not addressing the OP as I have asked you too.
here is the title of the thread , you sycophantic fawning clown>>
Are Christians Inspired by the Bible or by The Preacher
Address it or simply leave the thread.
because he hasn't read any of the writings of the saints.
Stop it for christs sake!!!!
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@Plisken
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
very inspiring Plisken, lovely and fluffy, until compared with:
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. Psalm 137:9 KJB
What inspiration do you get from that verse above? It is from the same book as you have quoted from and the same god.
Too harsh? I see, then what about this one also from the same book that you quoted from?
1 Peter 2:18: "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel."
Can you tell me what fires you up and gets you inspired about the verse above?
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@Castin
It's hard to imagine that Christianity would've gotten off the ground without Paul.
I agree.
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Strange how Islam lacks The Spirit of Truth, eh?
Islam is a vile ideology. But what can be said for it is the fact that it hides nothing in the respect that it makes itself extremely clear what its goal is: to convert the world to Islam and by the sword if necessary. That is truth.
Quran 8:39
And fight them until there is no fitnah and[until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah.
And fight them until there is no fitnah and[until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah.
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The question is to what Jesus was talking about.
No, the original question - my question was post (1) - "Did Jesus even predict that he would be dead for three days"?
Your christian clown brother came back with this verse as a response:
PGA2.0 John 2:18-2218 The Jews then said to Him,“What sign do You Show us as your authority for doing these things?” 19 Jesus Answered them, “Destroy this temple,and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 The Jews Then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” 21 But He Was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.
Show me where in that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ verse posted by your clown brother, does JESUS say he will be dead for three days, you clown?
I have said this is the gospel writer telling us what Jesus meant by - destroying a temple and rebuilding it - and not jesus himself AND I pointed out part 21 of the the verse that clearly states ;
21 But He Was speaking of the temple of His body. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< do you see that you blind ignorant clown!!! the gospel writer tells us what Jesus meant and NOT Jesus himself. I haven't changed a damn thing . I didn't have to.
The people recording the story all think Jesus was talking about His body, so do all the writers of the epistles.
No. it is just the one gospel writer named John who is telling us this.
With so many saints against you,
Name one and prove it.
and no logic supporting you,
The verse support me you clown
you have no choice but to rant out,
I have not ranted. I am just enjoying myself watching you and your fellow clowns struggle to explain away these verses and their own silly statements.
calling people fools and clowns. All of it is just your opinion.
It is only my opinion. But you have given me no reason to believe that you are anything otherwise.
As people read your vulgar rants,
Nothing "vulgar" about what I write, you just can't cope with me highlighting the crap that is in these scriptures.
they see only one clown. Only one fool.
And who would that be?
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@ethang5
Yes you have.
what have I changed, you clown?
here are the words of the verse.
John 2:18-2218 The Jews then said to Him,“What sign do You Show us as your authority for doing these things?” 19 Jesus Answered them, “Destroy this temple,and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 The Jews Then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” 21 But He Was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.
And this is what I wrote.
"21 But He Was speaking of the temple of His body". <<<<<<<<<<<<< these are not Jesus' words are they you absolute fool. The writer makes that perfectly clear.
I haven't CHANGED ANYTHING. I haven't had to.
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@Mopac
Protestant and so callled "nondenominational" churches have lost a great deal by abandoning the ancient tradition of venerating the saints.
Stick with the topic or leave it. I don't want your rubbish cluttering up my thread.
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@Castin
But it would be interesting if we magically removed all preachers and teachers of religion, leaving only Bibles in the world, to see how many people would take inspiration from just the book, no preachers. I think many still would.
Congratulations Castin. You have actually addressed the topic of the thread and here it is again for those who are probably purposefully missing the ACTUAL question already:
Are Christians Inspired by the Bible or by The Preacher?
leaving only Bibles in the world, to see how many people would take inspiration from just the book, no preachers.
No i think it would have died long ago as Jesus was a flash in the pan with a ministry that didn't last more than 12 months at least ands 2 years at a push . In the TOTAL of his works the Pharasse Priest Flavius Josephus doesn't spend too much time on this man, just a few passages "who some called a wonder worker", just one or two verses in fact.
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@EtrnlVw
inspiration comes from defeating the odds,
What did Jesus defeat? He was nailed up for all his seditious activities. Well done Jesus. Jesus 0 Romans 1
Jesus' life was one of those amazing odds that changed the world.
Opinion. It was The Battle of the Milvian and Roman Emperor Constantine I in particular who changed the world. Early Christianity Was still being persecuted and stamped out up until that point some 300 years after the crucifixion. Constantine didn’t “convert himself until he wason his deathbed.
He single handedly resurfaced the face of religion.
Not sure what you mean by that, but it sounds good, “resurfaced”. I think Paul had more to do with the “resurfacing” though. Jesus was a Jew, who had failed at his mission .The mission of the Messiah was to free the JEWISH people from the Roman yoke.
who CANNOT get inspired by such an inspirational figure like Jesus of the Gospels
That too is “opinion”. Some will find Jesus “inspirational”I don’t doubt. But you have quickly lost sight of the fact my questions concerns the BIBLE It is not necessarily concerned with a single individual. The bible making contradictory statements (of which there are many) such as :
“Remember The Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8“One Man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let Every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5
OR
" I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18
OR
“with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26“…TheLORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19...
doesn’t inspire me at all. It shows it to be weak on “inspiration.
who was a rebel,
Jesus was if we believe the gospels and the Romans. And so where all of his disciples.
unless one were to assume Jesus as a fictional character why is He not an inspirational figure?
Oh I believe he existed. I just don’t believe what THE BIBLE says about him or his works . <<<< see that? the BIBLE! You keep losing focus of the ACTUAL question.
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@PGA2.0
I am not putting words into Jesus' mouth, neither are the disciples.
Ok clown.I asked >>Did Jesus even predict that he would be dead for three days?
This is what you wrote " yes he did" and posted this nonsense some kind of proof that Jesus said he would be Dead for three days.:
YOUR Post 55 above.John 2:18-2218 The Jews then said to Him,“What sign do You Show us as your authority for doing these things?” 19 Jesus Answered them, “Destroy this temple,and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 The Jews Then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” 21 But He Was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.
It Actually proves me to be correct. That JESUS didn't even mention his death here in this verse or his resurrection.
For the BILLIONTH TIME
The gospeller tell us what HE believes JESUS meant by it it is the Gospeler who interprets what he believes >Jesus meant, NOT ME
Is it reasonable to believe he [John] wrote the gospel? Yes, it is.
Why.There is absolutely no proof and never has been, that this is the case. You are trying now to explain away your previous statement that this gospel was written by a disciple John.
It is believed by some biblical scholars that there is no way that the Fourth Gospel was written by John / Zebedee or by any of the disciples of Jesus. The author of this book is not a single individual, but is at least three different writers/editors, who did their layered work over a period of 25 to 30 years.
..conflating two different passages
NoI have made it clear that it was on ANOTHER occasion concerning the destruction of the temple, THE ACTUAL TEMPLE. go back and read it, clown?
And the disciples ON THIS OCCASION didn't bat an eyelid at the prediction of their holiest of places being destroyed, NO!, they simply asked
" when will it happen".
Yes, you have changed it. The passage does say Jesus said these words.He Was speaking of the temple of His body.
No I haven't had to change anything. You silly clown . Here AGAIN is the verse you posted;
John 2:18-2218 The Jews then said to Him,“What sign do You Show us as your authority for doing these things?” 19 Jesus Answered them, “Destroy this temple,and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 The Jews Then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” 21 But He Was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.
I have said ALL ALONG that Jesus HIMSELF doesn't say that HE was talking about the temple of his body. I have said that it is THE GOSPEL WRITER who TELLS US What Jesus meant by verse 19 above. He - THE GOSPEL WRITER - actually says at 21
"But He Was speaking of the temple of His body". <<<<<<<<<<<<< these are not Jesus' words are they you absolute fool. The writer makes that perfectly clear.
I haven't CHANGED ANYTHING. I haven't had to.
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I personally find absolutely nothing inspiring about the bible.
There are, without question, some lovely fluffy things written in these scriptures but to go so far as to say they are inspiring" as many people I know profess they are, they come unstuck when trying to explain what and why they find the scriptures "inspiring".
Seriously, who can get inspired by someone saying " take up thy bed and walk"?
Or
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@Grugore
Your ignorance offends me.There is no truth in you.Just like your father, the Devil.The father of lies.
“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Well I am not offending god according to Jesus , son of god.
For I am extremely poor in spirit according to you.
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Your arguments have been torn to shreds.
No they haven't and certainly not by a clown like you.
You are either totally clueless
Nope wrong again, you clown
or intentionally misrepresenting the truth.
I am simply highlighting these embarrassing stories that you find uncomfortable.
Address the thread or leave it.
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@Grugore
. Every one of your arguments have been refuted.
No they haven’t. And certainly not by YOU!
Quit embarrassing yourself.
I don’t feel I have nothing to be embarrassed about.
Or you could educate yourself.
I have and a lot better than YOU!
Your ignorance offends me.
Hahahahhahahahhahh. GOOD. You don't have to respond. Keep away if I offend you so much. I always said that what I have to say and my opinions will offend anyone who doesn’t agree with them. And anyone who cannot defend against them. Your problem is you simply cannot answer my questions. I highlight problematic verses and ask questions that seem to make you recoil in fear, because you know you simply have nothing to explain away these problematic verses and stories ,
Why did Jesus son of god waste a perfectly good "miracle" on turning water into alcohol when there must have been more worthy causes to use it for?
Why didn't Jesus "raise" his cousin the great prophet John the Baptist frome the dead as he did with his friend lazarus?
Why did jesus son of god and god even need to be baptised in the first place?
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@keithprosser
What he said was:
Stop derailing my thread with shite that has nothing to do with theme. Post 68 above.
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@PGA2.0
Prove they put words in His mouth. You can't.
The gospel writer telling us “what Jesus meant” and Jesus himself NOT TELLING US HIMSELF “what he meant” is putting words into the mouth of Jesus, you clown.
Did Jesus say “this is what I mean by “I will raise the temple”? NO he didn’t, he didn’t say anything at all about “what he meant”.
You want to change it because you don't like it.
What have I changed?Nothing. You put up the verse, I have simply commented on the fact that Jesus Himself did not say those words. JESUS DID NOT SAY "THIS IS WHAT I MEAN", did he? The gospel writers wrote those words telling us WHAT THEY BELIEVE Jesus “meant” and some 45-60 years after the fact. They are not even eyewitness accounts.
It is just another one of your personal opinions
No, it is a fact that Jesus didn’t say those words otherwise the gospel writers wouldn’t have had to tell us some 45 years after the fact what THEY believe Jesus “meant”., WOULD THEY you clown? What they would have done was write what Jesus ACTUALLY said, wouldn't they. They do anywhere else when Jesus himself say something,
I remind you; YOU introduced the verse to the thread. I have shown it not to be Jesus’ words but the words solely of the gospel writer and what he believes the words “meant”.
you build a straw man out of what was said by inserting your own bias into the passage and CHANGING its meaning.
SEE ABOVE YOUR CLOWN. it wasn't me who posted they verse , it was you. I haven't even given a version of what I believe about the verse so how have " changed it's meaning "? is all we have is what the gospel writer believes it meant .
The disciple tells you what He was speaking of and what the Jews thought He was speaking of.
No it is the gospel writer and you who tells us: 21 “But He Was speaking of the temple of His body”; - and NOT Jesus.
The gospel writer wasn’t present and no disciples were present. . Go back and read YOUR POST 55 above. Better still, go back to YOUR post 55 and read carefully the WHOLE verse that YOU POSTED, you clown.
The sign Jesus Jesus is speaking of is the sign of His physical resurrection from the dead.
So you keep saying.But your evidence for “what Jesus meant” doesn’t come from Jesus does it. It comes from the gospel writer and you simply believe the writer without question.
You are trying to get around this by saying the this particular gospel writer JOHN, was a disciple of Jesus himself. Well I am sure if that is the case, then you have clear evidence prove it as fact. you see in truth no one knows who wrote these gospels. And we only have estimates for when they were actually written.
The destruction of the physical temple is another matter.
Even If I was to accept that, It has to be acknowledged that the Jerusalem Temple/ Solomon’s Temple, didn’t fall and it wasn’t raised after three days, either, was it you clown.
I won’t comment on the rest of your post as it is simply reproducing passages that prove nothing andis simply filibustering on your behalf as you have no real answer for your own comments.For some reason known only to you, you believe that these verses you keep reproducing somehow explain Jesus and his temple body being resurrected. THEYDON’T!!!
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@ethang5
Yes you do. You actually deny what is actually written in the scriptures and attempt to rewrite them, that is intention to be deceitful. Your not ven good at it.They lie and obfuscate, substituting their agenda for truth.
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@ethang5
Who did I call stupid?See? This is where reading comprehension comes in. I did not call anyone stupid.
You did call disgusted "stupid" I think it is you who has trouble deciphering you own insulting crap.
Here is the whole quote. 103 above. It it was YOU calling disgusted "stupid" you also called him a "stalker".
Guys, I found the troll!Lol. We've known about him for ages. He's sort of like a pet. But feed him at your own risk, he's as stupid as they come, and has been that way for years. He's sort of a stalker too so don't let him smell you.
call people clowns,
You are a clown and calling someone a clown doesn't seem to warrant a warning as does someone calling someone else here "stupid". I have had warnings over calling people "stupid" but not for calling YOU a clown, as you so clearly are. You don't even understand your own post.
type in all caps,
I DO, FOR EMPHASIS, especially if I am repeating my self for the billionth time.
and needlessly repeat posts.
I repeat posts that need to be repeated. need is not " needlessly" that is you reading skill gone to crap again.
It undercuts your argument.
Opinion
You look like a mentally unstable person.
I am not. But let's be clear here, are you calling me me "mentally unstable" ? I wonder if that is an offence. I suppose I shall have to ask a mod to make that point clear.
All we have to do is make you angry and you go ahead and kill your own argument for us.
You haven't made me angry you clown. don't flatter yourself. I don't particularly care what "US" thinks.
If you trust your arguments are right, then there is no need for insults or all bold/caps shouting. Calm down.
All explained above...... ok clown
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@ethang5
But feed him at your own risk, he's as stupid as they come, and has been that way for years. He's sort of a stalker too so don't let him smell you.
How Is it that you get away with continually calling people "stupid" (post 103 above) and I have had two warnings about using the word. Are you also a mod under a different name?
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@PGA2.0
Yes, He did. [ say he would be dead]John 2:18-2218 The Jews then said to Him,“What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?” 19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple,and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 The Jews Then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.
This goes absolutely nowhere in proving Jesus was talking about his “body temple” being “DEAD”. The gospellers interpret what they believe he meant and not what Jesus himself actually said. PUTTING WORDS INTO HIS MOUTH IN OTHER WORDS!!
And they did this because the real and actual Jerusalem Temple didn’t fall and was still standing after he was crucified; they had to cover his poor prophecy somehow, didn’t they.
To “destroy” doesn’t require total obliteration. It could in this case be to mean beat me to within an inch of my life until I am unconscious, but I will recover, I will survive: Which he did: Because he wasn’t dead.
There is also another mention of the temple being destroyed that you seem keen to keep from the readers here.
Here you go. And notice, no one mentions what Jesus “meant by this” on this occasion, did they?
Mark 13:1-2 (NIV)
The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times
13 As Jesus was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, “Look, Teacher! What massive stones!What magnificent buildings!”
2 “Do you see all these great buildings?” replied Jesus. “Not One stone here will be left on another; everyone will be thrown down.”
13 As Jesus was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, “Look, Teacher! What massive stones!What magnificent buildings!”
2 “Do you see all these great buildings?” replied Jesus. “Not One stone here will be left on another; everyone will be thrown down.”
So Jesus here is talking not about “DEAD TEMPLE bodies” or Bodies being DEAD TEMPLES, is he? He is talking about a stone buildings collapsing.
AND before you accuse me “ISOLATing verses out of context” the following verses has Jesus now on the mount of olives and no one seems to be too concerned or bothered enough to ask Jesus about his previous statement .. only “when will this happen”? Jesus then goes into his “many coming in my name and nation rising against nation” speech.
Not a single mention here about his DEAD TEMPLE body,or him being DEAD TEMPLE, for three days or even one day or even a week or month. And there is no one putting words into his mouth either , are they?
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What you do is called selective citing. You ISOLATE verses out of context.
Yes, that old chestnut, of me “taking things out of context”. Old hat and I sick of hearing. I find it amazing that you say I take theseverses out of context but then you put them into a context that has absolutely nothing to do with anything. It is your own context that suits YOUR narrative.. I keep reminding you, that is all I do is highlight these problematic verse and you try to explain them away with other problematic unreliable verses from the same unreliable source.
rather than gleaning what the true meaning is.
I love that, so we have to “glean the true meaning”. I do just that. But my “gleaning” seems to upset you and you can’t accept that my “gleaning is just as valid as yours. Look at the definition of “glean”.
glean:
obtain (information) from various sources, often with difficulty.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/glean/
obtain (information) from various sources, often with difficulty.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/glean/
And explain to me what it is you actually “glean from this verse.
"Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellow disciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him". John 11:16
I have given my opinion on what I believe this verse actually means.
So you ignore the very next verse that explains to you the expert testimony of the centurion.
No this is a silly thing to say when is all anyone has to do is read it for themselves. The follow up verse make no difference. Pilates Didn’t see him dead, it doesn’t say if the centurion was dragged from the crucifixion site to attest to death..
So Pilate had the testimony of the centurion who would know whether Jesus was dead. What does"this" refer to in the context?
How would he know?. Would he know the difference between someone unconscious and someone who was actually dead?Did this centurion take a pulse? Was he a doctor? Would he know the difference between an induced coma and someone who was dead? How do we know the “centurion" wasn’t bribed?
Jesus – so say the gospels- was offered a drink of vinegar/wine on a sponge when he seemed to complain of thirst.Why he should then suddenly die after sucking on, or even sniffing this sponge and after saying few words, words which are also in contention? The thing about the vinegar soaked sponge is that if anything, it would have had completely the opposite effect on the human body. It was used on slave galleys as a temporary stimulant to revive flagging rowers, it had the same effect as smelling salts.
So again it appears just like all of these others gospels, it leaves gaping big holes in the commentary and we are left with yet another half story.
The Roman's had practiced crucifixion for over a hundred years before Christ, as testified to by Josephus. He records specific incidents of crucifixion in the following link provided for those who wish to check out his testimony:
I have read all the works of Josephus and he actually describes an incidence where one of “his friends”actually survives crucifixion. I found it particularly interesting in more ways than one. In that, precisely like the Jesus crucifixion story, there were three hung up, two die and one was nursed back to health and survived but supposedly happening some 40 years after the death of The Christ.
Marvelous don't you think, two precisely identical stories that are over 40 years apart ? This isn't the only "coincidental " story that corresponds with stories written in the New Testament gospellers but are supposed to be happening in Josephus' own time 40 years later.
I may start a thread on these "coincidences", of which there are many, far too many for the comfort of a Christian, I would wager.
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@Mopac
The Truth is God
No. Truth is truth. Your truth is truth with the word god slung on the end.
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@Outplayz
Excellent post.10/10This is a debate site.... the forums included. Some people would rather debate on forums and some would rather formally debate. I would say the formal debaters are doing it so other give them brownie points and they could feel good about themselves. The forum debaters have free rain and aren't trying to impress anyone other than get their points across. I would say debating on the forums is much better and will actually finish an issue. Only people that can't handle actually debating their idea will stay away from the forums... or, just a narcissistic itch that they want to win something. The forums are far superior to the formal debate function in getting your topic to its conclusion.
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@PGA2.0
otherwise there is no accountability for you spewing forth these comments.
Opinion again. I will take it you don’t want to discuss these threads and or defend them against my opinions and or theories.I don’t care. I have said anyone here can judge what I have to say right here in the open.
Even if I grant you what you said, you are reading INTO the Scriptures things they do not say or even infer.
Opinion without evidence isn’t a good argument. It is just an opinion. I have told you, it isn't for me to have to defend what I say but for you to
debunk with good solid evidence and not repetitious posts over and over of other unreliable verses from the same unreliable source.
Your fault finding comes from an ignorance of the deeper meaning,
Opinion. When you say “a deeper meaning” that is to say you can offer anything to support anything you say believing it to be some kind of proof . it isn’t, it is just more opinion.
the spiritual meaning that goes over your head.
Yes, “the spiritual” that weird and unexplainable mysterious nonsense that the bible doesn’t explain at all. A belief in something that is not universally accepted by science and millions of unbelievers/atheists but only by the faithful, so that wouldn’t do either.
What you call contradictions hold reasonable, logical answers.
I won’t dispute that,but the problem is the bible rarely does contain those “logical answers” on its own. As I have shown.
You avoided confronting the issue in DDO by formally debating it.
DDO. I wasn't on DDO. But I have avoided debate here So what?It is not compulsory. I am happy showing anyone who cares to read here what a mixed up, confusing, anomalous and ambiguous pile of half stories and nonsense these scriptures are on the surface. You don’t like that.
The problem with forum threads is that you are never held to the unreasonableness of your claims.
No I think the problem that YOU have with forum threads is that YOU do not like me highlighting the confusing,anomalous and ambiguous pile of half stories and nonsense these scriptures are on the surface. They are not as straightforward as you claim they are, this in turn leaves the likes of YOU to make any claim you like in an attempt to explain away the glaring contradictory confusing,anomalous and ambiguous pile of half stories and nonsense these scriptures are.
You are never held accountable for what you say.
You keep saying this. Stop Boring me.
Thus, it is a waste of time engaging in a thread,
Your choice.
but a debate is a different story.
Opinion
If this is the subject you choose to debate do it so formally and I will be glad to debate it with you. .
I have already started debates on many biblical subjects on this open forum. You can take it or leave it. You can resurrect one of my old threads or just go away and preach to the converted. I don’t care either way
What I object to is that you are not being held accountable for what you say.
I am trying not to laugh. What is stopping you holding me to account on this open forum with some evidence contrary to my opinions and or theories?.
I believe your problem lays in the possibility that I just may be causing people to have a rethink about what they have been led to believe since childhood. But I don’t think you should worry too much. There are only a handful of regular posters on this religion subforum. So you shouldn’t lose any sleep.
a formal debate is the only way to get feedback for who has the more reasonable view of Scripture.
Already addressed about a billion times now. I am happy right here, thank you very much.
I won't engage you any longer on this thread. You have managed to disrupt it by creating an argument with me personally.
JUST TO REMIND YOU. THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD IS:
Jesus Wasn't Dead When They Took Him Down From The Cross
IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ME PERSONALLY OR ABOUT WHERE I SHOULD BE PITCHING MY ARGUMENTS, OPINIONS OR THEORIES
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@Mopac
Yes gods exist.
That is a yes then.
These gods are created beings.
And that is also a yes .
They come into existence,
Another affirmative then.
they have a time that they live
Affirmative
and they die
Affirmative on two counts. To die they have to have existed and , as I have said all long, are flesh and blood beings just as the Mesopotamians have told us hundreds of thousands of years ago.
They are mortal.
Yes they are/were. ALL OF THEM
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@Outplayz
Lol, really? Why are they so good at making hell sound better than heaven?
It sounds like a place for the better class of people
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@PGA2.0
Because there is no accountability for what you are saying.
I can account for what I am saying. You just can’t seem to grasp the fact that my arguments are from the scriptures and my opinions are concerned with the scriptures. It is not me who has to account for anything. You either defend these scriptures against what I say about them or simply ignore me. That is your choice.
Who are you reading?
I am reading the scriptures. It is very rare I have to resort to outside sources to support myopinions and or theories. You see the bible is so flawed it is easy to find faults within them when looked at closely with a keen and sharp eye..
One does not develop a philosophy like this without being deeply influenced by others.
That is an opinion. I Am not “influenced” by anyone. The scriptures are full of faults and contradictions. They don’t stand up to close scrutiny. This is a fact.
You created the problem that can be reconciled when properly understood.
Nope. That is a lie. The Problem with the Tree Of Knowledge of Good and Evil story is that it simply isn’t true as it is presented to us in the scriptures. It is presented as a fairy tale with talking snakes, life giving trees and flaming swords and a god who is all singing all dancing but who manages lose his creation among the bushes and trees and has to shout out to his creation “ where are you” because he couldn’t find him....
No, it does not. You Read into the Bible what you want it to say.
Again that is simply alie. The bible is clear that there are more than one god and here are just a few of the examples so stop telling lies.
In Genesis 1:26 we read, "Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness'"(emphasis added). Genesis 3:22 adds, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil" (emphasis added).
Besides, what had this particular god to be jealous about if he was the only god?
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Exodus 20:3
Your conclusions are the and. Pick One and we can have a formal debate over it.
Here is short list of my threads. You pick one and we can carry on from where it/they were left off. But I suggest you read all of the thread before posting as I won’t be repeating anything I have already said on the thread you choose.
One God? It is simply Not True
Abraham Was Backward
Who was the God of Joseph, Son of Jacob?
I Hear the Phrase often " the war in heaven",...
Barabbas. More Lies!
Everything Is Wrong about the Biblical Creation in Genesis
“You Shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything"
The problem with the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Lazarus, theraising
Who can explain this verse to me
Zacharias.
This risen Christ
Let's see what others think of your truth claims.
I have said. I am quite content to air my thoughts and opinions right here thank you. If you cannot cope with that, that's your problem, not mine. People here can see quite clearly what I have to say and they can add their opinions of “what they think” at any time they choose. They or you either rebut my claim and or opinion with evidence or simply don't engage. I don't care either way.
But let me remind you again. This is a - religion - forum , it is not a - religious - forum for the religious only.
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