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@FLRW
FYI, Petard is a French word that means a case containing an explosive device or a firework that explodes with a loud report.
So is that to say a terrorist preparing an IED or suicide vest that explodes prematurely has been "Hoisted by his/her own petard", FLRW?
Something like this;
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@zedvictor4
Hoisted by our own petard, as Mr Shakespeare might say.
Is that to say - beaten with their own stick - Vic?
Hope you and Mrs Vic have a nice new year.
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@aql_reason
Yes. Formal means - Official. So what ?So Wikipedia and the English dictionary are in agreement. Apostasy is the act of giving up your religious beliefs. OR leaving a religionYes the key part is official. Apostasy is not about belief. So if they leave Islam personally, they are only punished by God. However, if they leave officially, they are punished in society. Leaving officially means that this person in court has to testify with sane mind that they longer are muslim. If they stop practicing Islam that does not mean they are an apostate under Islamic guidelines. Which is why it is rarely carried out in Islamic states.
Listen. It doesn't matter how much you attempt to apologise for this barbaric practice. It doesn't alter the stone cold fact that the punishment for leaving the ISLAMIC faith is death. So ISLAM is an enforced religious ideology.
"Scholars" I see. So those scholars that you believe are best informed on such matters and are the people that we [I] should be turning to and approaching for wisdom on such matter, are not in agreement? These will be the very same educated scholars that you insist that I should be listening to help me in forming my own ideas and opinions .You are making an assumption here. I only stated a fact that not all scholars are unanimous on the punishment. I never stated what position I took in the previous discussion.
But again YOU are appealing to the "Scholars" that you have said to do such a thing is "fallacy".
Have you forgotten already our exchanges concerning appealing to scholars? here you go, remind yourself.
You do like to contradict yourself, don't you. And often too. I said Christians are fools or had been fooled, you disagreed citing "famous scholars, scientists, philosophers" as sources as a defence HERE #84. I asked you why you were appealing do education because it doesn't mean anything HERE> #93
You then said categorically "Appealing to education does mean something. It means one values education which is not a invalid argument." HERE>#96 You als added further down that "It is up to the historians and Christians to interpret that. [The Bible] HERE #96. I again asked you why HERE> #105 .
Again you appealed to scholars for your answer, saying " Who interprets science? Scientists? Who interprets History? Historians" adding "And if what they say makes sense, you take it." HERE> #108. I pointed out that such academics and scholars do not always agree and gave you examples telling you that regardless of scholarly standing it doesn't make them arbiters of truth HERE? #113 You then said "I have been talking about logic and reason being main arbiter or truth". You has since contradicted all your earlier definitive statements by stating, amazingly! that
"to appeal to authority is a fallacy".#128 <<<<< that is the position you did take!
Tell me how can anyone form a valid opinion on these schools of thought when these schools cannot even make their own fkn minds up after almost 1500 years!!?Every Imam I have listened to and the few Islamic scholars that I have read, have all agreed, that the penalty for leaving the Islamic religion is death.How about this ISLAMIC scholar?Muhammad al- BukhariThis is the ruling of Allaah and His Messenger, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, no. 3017)So one has no CHOICE to leave the Islamic RELIGION unless he wishes to die. Which in turn means he is FORCED to stay through fear of death. <<<That is barbaric.And I rest my case.You of course have a right to appeal.Call it barbaric and any other label you can give. Most of the arguments against apostasy are emotional appeals.
Well it doesn't really matter what I or anyone else calls it, does it? All that is irrelevant. It doesn't alter the fact that the penalty for a Muslim leavening Islam is DEATH!
Hence, to enforce a religious ideology onto someone that doesn't accept it is not a choice, is it? It is fkn terrorism. And it is religious terrorism in the case of the Muslim apostate. ..... and anyone else that doesn't believe in Allah and that Mohammad was his prophet. I have always maintained the the worst victims of Islam are Muslims themselves.
Terrorism: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.
via Violent action or the threat of Violent action.
Was Jesus the son of Allah?
Was it Jesus that died on the cross?
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Just answer the question Stephen [...............................]So you care when religion enforces things on other people that don't agree with it, yes?"
I did answer your question, but just so you cannot misunderstand, here is my answer again:
Yes I believe it to be wrong for anyone or group to enforce their religious ideology onto others.
Stephen wrote: And what is the punishment for apostates in Islam?#151aql_reason wrote? Depends on how you define apostasySo are you saying Muslims/Islam defines apostasy different to other religions? Why don't you define it for us ?No the definition is on wikipedia: "Apostasy is the formal disaffiliation from, abandonment of, or renunciation of a religion by a person."Notice what I bolded. Many people don't understand that part.
Yes. Formal means - Official. So what ?
So Wikipedia and the English dictionary are in agreement. Apostasy is the act of giving up your religious beliefs. OR leaving a religion
Scholars are not unanimous on the punishment for apostasy.
"Scholars" I see. So those scholars that you believe are best informed on such matters and are the people that we [I] should be turning to and approaching for wisdom on such matter, are not in agreement? These will be the very same educated scholars that you insist that I should be listening to help me in forming my own ideas and opinions .
Tell me how can anyone form a valid opinion on these schools of thought when these schools cannot even make their own fkn minds up after almost 1500 years!!?
Every Imam I have listened to and the few Islamic scholars that I have read, have all agreed, that the penalty for leaving the Islamic religion is death.
How about this ISLAMIC scholar?
Muhammad al- Bukhari
This is the ruling of Allaah and His Messenger, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, no. 3017)
So one has no CHOICE to leave the Islamic RELIGION unless he wishes to die. Which in turn means he is FORCED to stay through fear of death. <<<That is barbaric.
And I rest my case.
You of course have a right to appeal.
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@ebuc
The Immortality Key (The Religion With No Name.)
Brian C. Muraresku.
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@aql_reason
[A]
This is what I wrote.Stephen wrote:I don't fkn care what religion one chooses to follow as long as it has no baring on my life and the lives of my children and grandchildren.#113Notice I said- chooses ^^^^^^^
aql_reason wrote: So you care when religion enforces things on other people that don't agree with it, yes?Stephen wrote: And you have used the word en-"FORCE"- es .aql_reason wrote: Yes you are right. Even if I did write that, you would still be against it.
NO, Wrong!. Read [A] above as to what I actually wrote and not what you wished me to have written, so stop trying to put words in my mouth.That is being deceitful.
Stephen wrote: So, tell me, is it wrong for someone or group to en- force their religious ideology onto others. Yes or No?aql_reason wrote: Not necessarily. [.......................................](nudity, guns, vaccines, etc.
Again you are ignoring that which I have specifically concerning "religious ideology". Stop swerving. It is a yes or no answer.
And what is the punishment for apostates in Islam?Depends on how you define apostasy
So are you saying Muslims/Islam defines apostasy different to other religions? Why don't you define it for us ?
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@aql_reason
Stephen wrote: Nope. What I have said was "Religion in itself, to me makes no sense, " HERE>>#113aql_reason wrote: This is what you said, "I don't fkn care what religion one chooses to follow as long as it has no baring on my life and the lives of my children and grandchildren."
And that is the response I gave.aql_reason wrote: You made the argument that religion is bad because it enforces things which effect you,
Go back and read the whole quote.
This is what I wrote.Stephen wrote:I don't fkn care what religion one chooses to follow as long as it has no baring on my life and the lives of my children and grandchildren.#113
Notice I said- chooses ^^^^^^^
aql_reason wrote: So you care when religion enforces things on other people that don't agree with it, yes?
And you have used the word en-"FORCE"- es .
So, tell me, is it wrong for someone or group to en- force their religious ideology onto others. Yes or No?
And what is the punishment for apostates in Islam?
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@aql_reason
I have told you on at least three fkn occasions now, that my problem is with the bible and how it has come down to us over the last two millennia. Its full of holes, dead ends and half stories and nonsense, on the surface. And told by people that were not even around when Jesus was believed to be walking the earth. IMO.Holes, dead-end, half stories are all ok. Gods message is not meant to be 100% clear and there is good reason for that. Because you don't understand the basic premises or arrived at them you don't understand the conclusion (revelation).
[A] And that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Although you know nothing at all about me , my background or my education. That is a assumptive schoolboy error to make of anyone that you have only ever met in an online forum and especially for someone such as yourself that has only been on this forum less than a week.
"Nonsense "- all religion is nonsense if you don't agree with 3 premises:1. God exists2. God is just3. God would send messengers because he is just4. Messengers came with revelationI'm just pointing out the flaws in your reasoning.
Flaws only according to you and the unfounded assumptions you have made about me after only five exchanges with me. Also see [A] above.
And let us not forget that it was you that appealed to the authority of Christians and Scientist. I have simply pointed out it means nothing. It is as you have suggested yourself, one can read and listen and then one has to make up ones own mind. So stop contradicting yourself.Yes appeal to authority is a fallacy.
So now you are saying to appeal to authority is "fallacy", but have suggested above this is what I should be doing. You really like to contradict yourself don't you.
This is you appealing to the authority that you now are calling i" fallacy";
aql_reason wrote: I#105: It is up to the historians and Christians to interpret that.Stephen wrote: Why?aql_reason wrote: Who interprets science? Scientists? Who interprets History? Historians. If you don't understand how to interpret something you look at what those people say. And if what they say makes sense, you take it. #108
But now you are saying that appealing to authority "fallacy"!!!!
Do you understand the definition of fallacy? A fallacy is only an idea that a lot of people think is true but is in fact false.
But its not a bad idea to believe a trusted person.
I agree. But there has to be reason for that trust doesn't there? And not just opinions based on unsupported faith or belief.
FFS! This thread is concerned with religion on a forum dedicated SPECIFICALY to religion. It is not concerned with anything else. And I am discussing religion. If you wish to discuss all the above mentioned above in bold and underlined, post on the relative sub forum that accommodates for those specifics.You made the argument that religion is bad because it enforces things which effect you,
I think I will leave it there with you now. It has already been suggested that I am one of those "circling you with a wolf pack" and accused of "taking over" the thread, although I have only responded to posts, your posts mainly. . And this is a free forum that is open to anyone interested...... to post on.I'm not an emotional person or get intimidated. I don't mind "wolves".
And I believe you. But unfortunately there are some complete cretins on this forum that make it their business to take offence on someone else's' behalf and feel the need to have to leap to the defence of someone that only they feel is being victimised and bullied.
It's mainly the Korea guy that is taking over, not you. I have no problem with discussing any topic.
Well Best Korea has every right to put in his pennies worth in anytime he feels the need to. This is an open public forum after all.
I won't respond for a while. But don't confuse that as me to have "ran away" from the thread. I only leave a thread when it becomes pointless, circular and for me, has ran its course as far as my own input is concerned.
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@aql_reason
What you believe about me is irrelevant. And I do have something to say and have said it. And will continue to keep saying it.I assumed you are atheist?I don't know what I am. Muslims would call me an infidel or simply a filthy dirty Kufar. Some Christians such as the Reverend Tradesecret would call me a heretic and has called me the "slime of Satan". AND! "dumb as fuck". <<<<< FKN BIG mistake that turned out to be for the absolute bible ignorant TWAT!So you're confused :)
Not at all. I am very clear in my own beliefs in what I believe concerning the biblical scriptures. I was speaking from the standpoint of what some Christians or some Muslim in the past have called me. .
Different Christian factions disagree on the interpretation of the bible. MUSLMS believe that Jesus was only a prophet and NOT the son of god. Muslims believe that Jesus didn't die on the cross where Christians do. I personally believe the Old Testament and all the characters within it. I don't believe the New Testament in the way it has come down to us and has been interpreted over time although I have good reason to believe a man called Jesus existed in 1st century Judaea.. This is before we get onto the beliefs of Hindus and Sheikhs. So you do see the problem concerning your argument for "Historians" and "Christians" being the arbiters of biblical truth, don't you?So you believe historians that suit your bias but Christians can't why?
Show me where I have said Christians cannot take the word of anyone.... at all.
I have told you on at least three fkn occasions now, that my problem is with the bible and how it has come down to us over the last two millennia. Its full of holes, dead ends and half stories and nonsense, on the surface. And told by people that were not even around when Jesus was believed to be walking the earth. IMO.
And let us not forget that it was you that appealed to the authority of Christians and Scientist. I have simply pointed out it means nothing. It is as you have suggested yourself, one can read and listen and then one has to make up ones own mind. So stop contradicting yourself.
My problem has always been with the scriptures i.e the BIBLE. I don't fkn care what religion one chooses to follow as long as it has no baring on my life and the lives of my children and grandchildren.Yes but you say that and it secular values that do have a bearing on ones life. Like why does the west enforce nudity, vaccines, guns. If you don't get vaccinated, you may lose your lob. Your entire livelihood. Be realistic. All governments are run by majority to suppress minorities. The more lawful a country is has the less freedom.
FFS! This thread is concerned with religion on a forum dedicated SPECIFICALY to religion. It is not concerned with anything else. And I am discussing religion. If you wish to discuss all the above mentioned above in bold and underlined, post on the relative sub forum that accommodates for those specifics.
I think I will leave it there with you now. It has already been suggested that I am one of those "circling you with a wolf pack" and accused of "taking over" the thread, although I have only responded to posts, your posts mainly. . And this is a free forum that is open to anyone interested...... to post on.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Yes, the membership have learned that whatever comes from the mouth of Miss Tradesecret is usually either an outright LIE relative to the Bible, or away from Christianity, she stumbles around in her life in her Satanic stupidity as well.
Indeed Brother D. But there isn't much of recent beats this stupidity from the Reverend Tradesecret:
Tradesecret wroteThe judge must weigh the evidence before he can assess the guilt or innocence. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/10198-i-worship-both-jesus-and-satan-its-called-getting-along-with-everyone?page=1&post_number=22
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ from the man that ALSO claims to be a Criminal Lawyer!!!!!!? and claims to have represented client/s internationally!!!!!
Judges do not "weigh the evidence" and neither do they "assess the guilt or innocence." That is the job of the Jury? The defendant either pleads guilty or the jury finds him innocent or guilty.
The Judges is a referees, and are only there to keep defence and prosecution within the spirit law. .
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
MISS TRADESECRET’S QUOTE THAT SHE HAS YET TO OUTRIGHT PROVE AS USUAL!: “People like to discuss ideas. Brother D doesn't do that. He quotes and then repeats it despite being well and truly refuted on many occasions.”I EASILY REFUTED HER POST ABOVE HEREWITH: “Let Miss Tradesecret show outright where my Bible knowledge has been allegedly refuted, especially when it was relative to her! Miss Tradesecret, BEGIN!
Brother D. You expect far too much of the Reverend Tradesecret, to the point of wishful thinking. You surely are aware that s/he is a compulsive pathological liar and a coward that cannot support any allegations or charges that s/he has pressed against you in a vain attempt to discredit, not just your impeccable character, but your supreme knowledge of religion and the bible in particular which, that anyone with eyes to see, someone such as myself, has witnesses on hundreds of occasions.
In short, Brother D., the Reverend Tradesecret has no intention of showing any evidence where s/ he or anyone else has been able to refute your Biblical knowledge, simply because, s/he can't.
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aql_reason wrote: It is up to the historians and Christians to interpret that.#105Why?Who interprets science? Scientists? Who interprets History? Historians. If you don't understand how to interpret something you look at what those people say. And if what they say makes sense, you take it.
"If it makes sense is subjective".
Richard Dawkins is a scientist and author and an atheist. He has books written about God and the Bible. Different Christian factions disagree on the interpretation of the bible. MUSLMS believe that Jesus was only a prophet and NOT the son of god. Muslims believe that Jesus didn't die on the cross where Christians do. I personally believe the Old Testament and all the characters within it. I don't believe the New Testament in the way it has come down to us and has been interpreted over time although I have good reason to believe a man called Jesus existed in 1st century Judaea.. This is before we get onto the beliefs of Hindus and Sheikhs. So you do see the problem concerning your argument for "Historians" and "Christians" being the arbiters of biblical truth, don't you?
No. Because they are changing my country, society and culture with their own. There is a difference. Church and state are separate in Britain. Islam is Islam, there is nothing else.Citizens of muslim countries would say the same things about the western culture and influence.
I agree. But you do understand the difference between someone being "influenced" and that of a forced ideology, don't you?
Yes, Islam is a way of life not just a religion. When you submit to God, you submit in all aspects of life.
Which I as a free person refuse to accept. I am not a practicing Christian but give me Christianity over a barbaric enforced ideology any day.
Indeed , that is true where Islam intends to change the culture, society and way of life of one nation with the full intent of replacing it with Islam.That's not the goal of violence. And the goal of Islam was never to force convert others to Islam.
Well then you are showing ignorance of your own intolerant ideology:
Quran3:56 - "Asto those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony inthis world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Quran 4:89 - Theywish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike.So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for thecause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill themwherever you find them and take not from among them any ally orhelper.
Quran 51 - You,who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies.
Quran8:12 - "Iwill cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Thereforestrike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them".
Quran8:39 Andfight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all ofit, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing ofwhat they do.
Quran9:30 - TheJews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christianssay, "The Messiah is the son of Allah." That is theirstatement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those whodisbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them;
Surah9:5 - "Fight and slay thepagans wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them,and liein wait forthem in every place of ambush".
So you carry on trying to polish the turd that will never shine.
Stephen wrote: The question of interpretation is a Muslim problem, that only Muslims can remedy, correct and alter. But the thing there is, they can't can they?Because according to Islam and Muslims, the Quran is the last and the perfect unalterable word of god.aql_reason wrote:wrote: Yes the Quran is word of God. And interpretations are normal part of humans. No one agrees on the same things. The problem is extreme interpretations are generally not accepted. And Shias and Sunnis are not extreme. Just a few are.
And there it is again, "just a tiny few". 😂 That will be the "just 1% of 1.7 billion Muslims" (17 million) that you mentioned earlier and the "tiny few" that Western MSM keep trying to convince us is only a hand full of crazy Muslims that can't do much harm.
Stephen wrote:I know they have murdered in the name of their religious ideology and their gods, but MUSLIMS are still doing so. Not just to the Wester civilisations but their own people too.aql_reason wrote:: Not just Muslims. Americans, Russians, Europeans are all killing following some ideology.
Indeed, but you seem to keep forgetting that you are on a religion forum, and the particular ideology being discussed here is religious ideology and not political ideology.
Stephen wrote: And you keep ignoring the FACT that Christianity, like Judaism ,has dragged itself into the 21st century. Islam is stuck in the dark ages and cannot ever move forward, change or reform. THAT is a big problem for Muslims.aql_reason wrote:Yes I have heard that one before. Yet, when you actually get down to it. You realize their beliefs are very similar to how secular governments work.
No. Islam has one goal. Islam is intolerant of other beliefs and here Church and state a separate. Unlike Islam. So lets not go around in circles on that one.
You again are ignoring the point. Jesus the god of Christians has never commanded that his followers to go out into the world and kill others for simply not believing in him. But the god of the Quran does.There is no compulsion [in choosing] religion, according to Islam. And Islamic history attests to that. Muslims benefited more from jizya anyway.
But haven't you just said that Islam is all about "submission"? And Jizya was a tax on Christians and Jews aka Dhimmi that happened to be living in any Muslim lands. It was a protection racket and still is.
FFS! it hasn't reformed in any way at all. The Quran is believed by MUSLIMS to be the perfect unalterable word of god. Nothing has change since its conception in the 14th century.What has Islam reformed from to? What changes has it made? There was abrogation that made its ideology a thousand times more vile , barbaric and murderous and than it was to begin with.It has changed. You are not aware of such facts. I'll give you an example, the ayatollah in Iran allowed sex-change surgeries recently. Many would call that progressive.
And what would the "1% tiny minority of the 1.7billion" Muslims call it?
But we are "specifically" discussing religion. So can you expand on that. Keeping in mind we are speaking religious practices. While also keeping in mind that Israel doesn't have the death penalty.America does have death penalty.
But we are talking religion & RELIGIOUS practices and how Christianity and Judaism has brought itself into the 21st century. America does not sentence anyone to death because of their chosen religion. Have you not heard of the First Amendment. Its top of list - the right to practice your religion freely.
What you believe about me is irrelevant. And I do have something to say and have said it. And will continue to keep saying it.
I assumed you are atheist?
I don't know what I am. Muslims would call me an infidel or simply a filthy dirty Kufar. Some Christians such as the Reverend Tradesecret would call me a heretic and has called me the "slime of Satan". AND! "dumb as fuck". <<<<< FKN BIG mistake that turned out to be for the absolute bible ignorant TWAT!
aql_reason wrote: In fact this shouldn't even be about Islam vs Christianity.It should be religion vs. atheistic accusations on them lolBut its not , is it? It is titled "Islam vs. Christianity" LOL.Because the discussion is Islam vs. Christianity. To atheists, religions don't make sense at all.
Religion in itself, to me makes no sense, but there is a lot to the bible once the surface has been scratched. but that is simply my opinion and I have no intentions of changing anyone's point of views or beliefs. My problem has always been with the scriptures i.e the BIBLE. I don't fkn care what religion one chooses to follow as long as it has no baring on my life and the lives of my children and grandchildren.
So why bother discussing if you can't agree on the premises.
No one has set out a single premise that I can see. The title simply states Islam V Christianity. where the author has simply stated ;
YouFound_Lxam wrote: As a Christain, the obvious contradictions between the Quran, and the Bible are very clear.#1
And followed this up with:
YouFound_Lxam wrote: I put it in a forum for everyone do discuss together and have conversations about.
So, unless it went over your head completely, you and I have been having said suggested "conversation".
One would have thought that the author of this thread YouFound_Lxam would have at least pointed out a few of the "very clear" and "obvious contradictions between the Quran, and the Bible": But hasn't done so unless I missed them. But I have pointed out a few above myself.
So why don't you set out your premise from the side of Islam? On why, if or not you believe YouFound_Lxam is wrong or right.
Anyway. Nice discussion. You put your points as I have mine and I have enjoyed it.
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@Best.Korea
I am kinda getting drunk, so its best if we just agree to disagree for now. I feel like I am derailing the thread, when I should just be letting christian and muslim guy fight each other while I watch and do nothing.
Don't expect the Reverend to join this thread, BK. He wouldn't know Pastor from a Penis. I won't tell him they are both the same thing.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Yes, all prophets performed miracles. That doesn't indicate anything about that person being superior. It only indicates that God can give powers to people.But Jesus was the only man in the Bible, who claimed to be God.
Does he? Where? And do you not see the contradiction in your comment. Of course you don't, you are too fkn stupid.
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@aql_reason
Does the bible actually state that Jesus died?Yes. The Bible has many historical narrations.
Good. Then you won't mind showing me where the BIBLE actually state that Jesus died on the cross or anywhere else come to that.
It is up to the historians and Christians to interpret that.
Why?
Why should they listen to your interpretation of history?
I haven't suggested once that you, they or anyone else should listen to me.
No it doesn't. It actually says nothing more than he gave up his spirit, which could mean a lot of things in those ancient times. In fact Jesus is said to have called out to his god/father "why have you forsaken me"? That to me sounds like a loss of faith and not an endorsement for the afterlife or the resurrection.Doubt is not a sin. And is normal to humans. Living in a constant state of doubt is not good. One should be mostly certain of there beliefs. But all prophets had times where they had doubt or felt hopeless.
I see. So the Son of God had a loss of faith about the one that sent him?
I agree. The OT is riddled with infiltration by different groups and factions; into Egypt for instance.. I am simply pointing out this is exactly what Muslims have done and are doing in the 21st century West.Yes. And why is it bad? Because they are harming your belief system? Well both Christianity and Islam are authoritative. That is their nature.
No. Because they are changing my country, society and culture with their own. There is a difference. Church and state are separate in Britain. Islam is Islam, there is nothing else.
They are lying. And you have said it is not "pacifist" But that - your - statement deserves a complete thread of its own. So best leave that one there unless you decide to make a thread titled "Why Islam is a "a religion of peace".?I don't believe it is. Violence is allowed, when needed.
Indeed , that is true where Islam intends to change the culture, society and way of life of one nation with the full intent of replacing it with Islam.
And is their holy book the Quran?Yes and so is mine. What's the difference? Interpretation. ISIS interprets literally.
So then, we have established that Isis it a MUSLIM terrorist organisation that follow and take their instructions from the Quran. See, wasn't hard was it? The question of interpretation is a Muslim problem, that only Muslims can remedy, correct and alter. But the thing there is, they can't can they? Because according to Islam and Muslims, the Quran is the last and the perfect unalterable word of god.
Not all Muslims believe that though do they? My point is that enough do. And if they had the weaponry they would take on all those that appose their warped belief: Islam.All 5 schools in Islam believe this. The only ones who don't are usually those who interpret literally (like the Salafis) who are followed by less than 1%.
[A] So then. 1%. of 1.7 billion followers is 17 MILLION <<<< that must be that "just a tiny few" the western MSM keep telling us about.
Quran says Christians and Jews are people of the book. They are not disbelievers or Kafir (because a kafir by definition is anyone who knows Islams truth and rejects it). Only God knows who is Kafir. Yes, and that's how terrorist groups work. They get funding and they get stronger.
I am not sure what you are trying to explain there.
I have seen no reports of Western MSM reporting from the Yemen for instance where they are claiming MUSLIMS killing Muslims. They, on the rare occasion, simply headline it as a "civil war".Yea. The whole Shia-Sunni fighting has been over exaggerated. They have lived at peace for most of their history. Of course, wars make people blame other people. For the most part Shia-Sunni was only happened for 200 out of the 1400 year history of Islam (Safavids vs Ottomans).
Yes. that will be the "civil war" that western MSM don't with us to know that is actually MUSLIMS butchering and murdering other MUSLIMS, which I did mention.
That was because WESTERN governments were involved in those particular conflicts and the enemy were TERRORISTS!Muslims were the main victims of those terrorists. It was Iraqi soldiers and other who fought them and died fighting them.
Yes MUSLIMS killing other MUSLIMS again and which the West was assisting in destroying Muslim terrorist. I haven't denied that.
I agree. But our Western media will always maintain that it "just a tiny few", whenever challenged.Because statistically it is a tiny few. ISIS has mainly died down. And other terrorist groups are followed by minority of Muslims.
I refer you to [A] above.
Christianity is guilty of terrible past atrocities and in the name of Jesus too. . And no one can deny that. Christians have murdered Christians, but - in the name of their god. <<< This is what I mean by DUPED and fooled.So what? People murder people in the name of any ideology. Those people are not fools. Christians and Muslims of the past were willing to die for their beliefs. It may not be the case for Christians now, but is for Muslims now.
I know they have murdered in the name of their religious ideology and their gods, but MUSLIMS are still doing so. Not just to the Wester civilisations but their own people too. And you keep ignoring the FACT that Christianity, like Judaism ,has dragged itself into the 21st century. Islam is stuck in the dark ages and cannot ever move forward, change or reform. THAT is a big problem for Muslims.
But the difference is that the Christian God ; Jesus, does not instruct his followers to go out into the world and murder, rape, enslave and pillage anyone that doesn't believe in him, does he?Rape is immoral. God instructs both religions to do the right thing. If someone sees something bad happening and doesn't do anything to stop it, they are doing what is immoral.
You again are ignoring the point. Jesus the god of Christians has never commanded that his followers to go out into the world and kill others for simply not believing in him. But the god of the Quran does.
But the god of the Quran does. Quite the opposite to the god of the Christians; Jesus says "turn the other cheek". " Love they neighbour". Love thy enemies".Yes. But you can't always love your enemy. Especially if your enemy is planning to do something bad to you.
I agree. but we here are talking about being murdered simply for not believing, and not because someone wants to harm us.
Islam cannot reform, can it? <<This is a big problem for Muslims.It has. There have been many reforms. But not to the main teachings, if they contradict those teachings. You are just not aware because of them.
FFS! it hasn't reformed in any way at all. The Quran is believed by MUSLIMS to be the perfect unalterable word of god. Nothing has change since its conception in the 14th century.
What has Islam reformed from to? What changes has it made? There was abrogation that made its ideology a thousand times more vile , barbaric and murderous and than it was to begin with.
Israel too has dragged itself into the 21st century. It no longer stones people to death.Sure. But they still kill people with different methods. :D And sometimes with religious justification too. Every ideology does this. Religion is not specific to it.
But we are "specifically" discussing religion. So can you expand on that. Keeping in mind we are speaking religious practices. While also keeping in mind that Israel doesn't have the death penalty.
The discussion is on Islam and Christianity, but I believe the atheists (Stephen) or nonreligious (Best.Korea) want to have something to say.
What you believe about me is irrelevant. And I do have something to say and have said it. And will continue to keep saying it.
So I have invited other people who defend religion to discuss this topic.
That's kind of you.
In fact this shouldn't even be about Islam vs Christianity.It should be religion vs. atheistic accusations on them lol
But its not , is it? It is titled "Islam vs. Christianity" LOL.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
that they be banned for at least 30 days?
No, Brother. what you going to do when the entertainment is taken away? 😂 There is nothing better to me than correcting these idiots on what the bible actually states.
Do you Remember, the Reverend didn't find "Lot a virtuous, righteous man" when the BIBLE clearly states he was. Or that Jesus had secret disciple's when the BIBLE clearly states that he did?
I am honestly beginning to believe that these two clowns say these things so that they may actually learn something contrary to what they have been indoctrinated to believe.
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@aql_reason
As I believe Christians have been fools/fooled for the last 2000 years because they, in their extremely poor wisdom, have adopted a god from an ancient time they didn't understand, an ancient culture they didn't understand and an ancient society they didn't understand.No Christians are not fools and they have not been fooled. Most of famous scholars, scientists, philosophers were Christian and defended Christian beliefs....
Well appealing to education doesn't mean anything. There are probably more better educated that don't believe the bible. And Christians are fools because they still believe that a rotten stinking three days old corpse come back to life. Does the bible actually state that Jesus died? No it doesn't. It actually says nothing more than he gave up his spirit, which could mean a lot of things in those ancient times. In fact Jesus is said to have called out to his god/father "why have you forsaken me"? That to me sounds like a loss of faith and not an endorsement for the afterlife or the resurrection.
In my opinion, Muslims have been patient and have played the long game extremely well, no pun intended. Over the last 40 years to my knowledge, Muslims have infiltrated and embedded themselves in many high offices of Western institutions - Government, Local Government, Education, Police force, Army, Navy Air Force. Medical Profession, Entertainment, Sport , you name it. And helped and assisted all by our own self serving Governments trying to convince us with the usual patronising bullshite "Islam is a religion of peace" and "only a tiny few".One can say that about any group: infiltrating,
I agree. The OT is riddled with infiltration by different groups and factions; into Egypt for instance.. I am simply pointing out this is exactly what Muslims have done and are doing in the 21st century West.
No anyone that tells you Islam is a religion of peace is lying. There are violent aspects of Islam, it is not a pacifist religion. Violence is not necessarily bad. But they are known as takfiris an offshoot of Wahabbism.
They are lying. And you have said it is not "pacifist" But that - your - statement deserves a complete thread of its own. So best leave that one there unless you decide to make a thread titled "Why Islam is a "a religion of peace".?
Is the Isis terror organisation made up of Muslims?Yes they are by definition.
And is their holy book the Quran?
ope. The rampage of Islam was finally stopped in Europe when Polish king—King Jan (John) Sobieski finally halted the invading butchers of Islam at the Battle of Vienna against the Ottoman MUSLIM Empire in 1683. Didn't the Muslim Turks have FIVE of the largest Empires the world has ever known? I wonder how they managed that? Did they just wonder into most of Europe without a sword being draw and simply invited in with out an exchange of words?Yes. But what I am saying is if Muslims believed that they had to kill Christians and Jews. Nothing could stop them from doing that to their neighbors. NO such things is accepted by respected Muslim scholars of today or before.
Not all Muslims believe that though do they? My point is that enough do. And if they had the weaponry they would take on all those that appose their warped belief: Islam.
MSM don't seem to want to report on the conflicts around the world where Muslims are butchering their Muslim "brother & sisters" by the MILLIONS or Christians by the MILLIONS. Why do you believe they are so reluctant to do so?They do. You are just not aware of it.
I have seen no reports of Western MSM reporting from the Yemen for instance where they are claiming MUSLIMS killing Muslims. They, on the rare occasion, simply headline it as a "civil war".
They do report it. ISIS has killed a lot of Shia Muslims, Yazidis and Christians.
That was because WESTERN governments were involved in those particular conflicts and the enemy were TERRORISTS!
But on the grand scale of things there are more terrorists by Islam today.
I agree. But our Western media will always maintain that it "just a tiny few", whenever challenged.
Does that mean Christiatniy is a violent religion.
Christianity is guilty of terrible past atrocities and in the name of Jesus too. . And no one can deny that. Christians have murdered Christians, but - in the name of their god. <<< This is what I mean by DUPED and fooled.
But the difference is that the Christian God ; Jesus, does not instruct his followers to go out into the world and murder, rape, enslave and pillage anyone that doesn't believe in him, does he? But the god of the Quran does. Quite the opposite to the god of the Christians; Jesus says "turn the other cheek". " Love they neighbour". Love thy enemies".
But Christianity has dragged itself into the 21st century with the reformation in the early 16 century and it no longer burns women at the stake for being witches. Or crucifies anyone.
Islam cannot reform, can it? <<This is a big problem for Muslims.
Israel too has dragged itself into the 21st century. It no longer stones people to death.
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@YouFound_Lxam
See but (respectfully) this is showing ignorance of Christian belief.
Indeed. A belief. No proof.
Hell is separation from God. It is not a place God created.
You really don't know your bible do you? God created hell for the "Devil" and his angels and anyone that followed their examples to suffer and burn- if the BIBLE is to be believed.
No where in the Bible does it say God created Hell or cast any humans into Hell.
So then who was it that "prepared" the place for the "Devil" and his angles?
God created us originally for relationship with him.
You can't show me where God in the bible says that. In fact god makes it pretty clear why he created man and it was for no other reason than to do his bidding..... and digging.
God gave us free will (the tree of knowledge of good and evil) and God gave us a perfect world to live in.
Its not "free will" if it comes with the threat of death , you clown. And the world is not created perfect. We still have devastating volcanoes, earthquakes, tidal waves and floods.
When Adam and Eve sinned, that was a sign to God that despite the gift of life, free will, and everlasting life, God gave to them, they wanted to do things their own way and disobey God.
FFS! stop it!. Eve was duped by one of his own creations, you idiot. How would she know the difference .
God respected this decision and our free will and separated man from God. What else is separation from God? Hell.
FF SAKE! God in no way " respected "anything in the whole story. In fact, God was so pissed off at the whole affair that he sentenced all of mankind to death because one of his OWN SON'S deceived Eve.
So, God does not send us to Hell, we send ourselves to Hell. We are all on the path to Hell, because we are all sinners.
Have you been taking religious instruction from that bible dunce the Reverend Traedesecret?
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@Best.Korea
What are "gay rights"?Gay marriage, and not being punished for consensual gayness.
But they have these rights here in the West. So I can never understand why people are still banging on about these rights. Unless one is arguing the point with the Islamic religion. With that said, I am against trying to force Western opinions/laws and values onto an Islamic country where there are strict rules against what the Christian god calls and "abomination". Do you see the axiom there, BK?
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@Best.Korea
I support gay rights
What are "gay rights"?
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@YouFound_Lxam
aql_reason wrote:<How can God be man and creator at the same time?YouFound_Lxam wrote: Because he's God?? He can do anything.#72
Don't make me laugh.🤣
If the bible is to be believed:
God couldn't control his own creations.
God cannot die.
God cannot sin.
And god had to call out to Adam and Eve because he didn't know where they were and couldn't find them. Genesis 3:9
God can make mistakes and kept repeating his own mistakes.
God regretted his mistakes and decisions so cannot un-regret his mistakes and decisions.
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@aql_reason
Clearly you are biased against Islam.
Yep. .... and its teachings.
I am also "biased" against the Old Testamant simply because its barbarity is identical to the Quran.
I believe Muslims are the biggest victims of Islam.
As I believe Christians have been fools/fooled for the last 2000 years because they, in their extremely poor wisdom, have adopted a god from an ancient time they didn't understand, an ancient culture they didn't understand and an ancient society they didn't understand. It other words, Christians have been duped and are still being duped. But to be honest, all that looks likes it about to change. They - the Christian Church, appears to be throwing in the towel all over Europe. Or hadn't you noticed? Notice, I am not saying all over the world.
Christians are not at all honest or truthful concerning the mission of the person Christians believe was "the Christ" and "Messiah". Yet the facts are all there in the New Testamant that prove what they are STILL teaching about the one they call Jesus is simply wrong. They were duped by the early Church (understandable for that time) but they have continued the lie.
In my opinion, Muslims have been patient and have played the long game extremely well, no pun intended. Over the last 40 years to my knowledge, Muslims have infiltrated and embedded themselves in many high offices of Western institutions - Government, Local Government, Education, Police force, Army, Navy Air Force. Medical Profession, Entertainment, Sport , you name it. And helped and assisted all by our own self serving Governments trying to convince us with the usual patronising bullshite "Islam is a religion of peace" and "only a tiny few".
Well I wasn't convinced 40 years ago and many indigenous Westerners are waking up to the fact that they have also been duped.
If Islam to you is just ISIS interpretation of Islam then sure that's the idea.
Is the Isis terror organisation made up of Muslims?
If the idea of Islam was to kill disbelievers, they would have been dead a long time ago when Muslims were at their peak.
Nope. The rampage of Islam was finally stopped in Europe when Polish king—King Jan (John) Sobieski finally halted the invading butchers of Islam at the Battle of Vienna against the Ottoman MUSLIM Empire in 1683. Didn't the Muslim Turks have FIVE of the largest Empires the world has ever known? I wonder how they managed that? Did they just wonder into most of Europe without a sword being draw and simply invited in with out an exchange of words?
I have already said multiple times on this site that Muslims are the worst victims of Islam.
MSM don't seem to want to report on the conflicts around the world where Muslims are butchering their Muslim "brother & sisters" by the MILLIONS or Christians by the MILLIONS. Why do you believe they are so reluctant to do so?
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@Best.Korea
I agree. Hence that silly term of phrase "only a tiny minority".It took just 19 Muslims to bring a city to its knees on the morning of Tuesday, September 11, 2001. The majority were irrelevant.Both Christians and muslims did lots of crimes,
Indeed. There is a slight difference between the two. The god of Islam orders that its adherents/Muslims to kill all unbelievers, Jews and Christians. <<<That is a fact.
When muslims attack Christians, it really does nothing to Christianity as a whole. It only makes islam look bad.
Well you tell that to the relatives that have just watched their loved ones be headed and raped. And it "makes Islam look bad" because Muslims are carrying out the will of their god, as it is instructed in the Quran.
But both islam and christianity face same problem. The decline.
You are half correct. Islam is on the rise. Christianity is in decline. Through sheer birth rate..
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@aql_reason
I'm a one man army. Numbers don't determine truth.
I agree. Hence that silly term of phrase "only a tiny minority".
It took just 19 Muslims to bring a city to its knees on the morning of Tuesday, September 11, 2001. The majority were irrelevant.
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@YouFound_Lxam
As a Christain, the obvious contradictions between the Quran, and the Bible are very clear.
The Old Testament is just as vile as the Quran. And you need your head testing if you believe it isn't.
Judges 19
Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don’t do such an outrageous thing.”
25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. 26 At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight.
27 When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. 28 He said to her, “Get up; let’s go.” But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.
29 When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts and sent them into all the areas of Israel. 30 Everyone who saw it was saying to one another, “Such a thing has never been seen or done, not since the day the Israelites came up out of Egypt.
At least the Jews have dragged themselves into the 21st century. Islam cannot do that. Muslims are the biggest victims of Islam.
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@n8nrgim
Funny isn't it. The Christians can tell us that we are to be tormented and burn in hell fire for all eternity for not believing.
But never can they tell us about what happens to those that are said to go to heaven/paradise.
Jesus said: "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise".Luke 23:43
Ok, nice. Then what happens? Do those that manage to get there sit at gods knee admiring him and telling him how great he is for all eternity?
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@Sidewalker
Stephen isn't prejudiced, he hates everyone.
You know, its not often you are right, but, you are wrong again"
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@FLRW
@Best.Korea
Not a word from MSM and it's being going on for years in many parts of Africa.
Western media would rather push the "poor Hamas freedom fighter agenda " .
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@YouFound_Lxam
@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
@Mr.BrotherD.ThomasYou are a character lol
Yep. The place wouldn't be the same without him..... and his biblical knowledge.👏👏👏
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GENOCIDE: Muslims Slaughter Another 160 Christians Preparing for Church Christmas Programs in Nigeria
Fury as massacre of almost 200 Christians is partially blamed on climate change
10 Christians, including toddler, killed by Islamic extremists in Uganda
One has to wonder how they will celebrate New Year?
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@Best.Korea
Best.Korea wrote: I would appreciate the evidence.Tradesecret wrote: You wouldn't know the evidence if you fell over it.
And the Reverend Tradesecret wouldn't know the bible if it smacked him between the eyebrows, BK.
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@Best.Korea
Tradesecret wrote @Best.Korea : Did you read the book of Esther?Best.Korea wrote: No, but I am pretty sure you can quote the evidence from it.
Of course he can. He has been "taught to memories the bible backwards and forwards from a very early age" and "in ancient Greek and Hebrew", too.🤣
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@n8nrgim
@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
I recall brother Thomas saying he frequented prostitutes. I'm just following in the footsteps of TRUE Christians, praise!
😂 Nice.
Is it so hard to believe that I'm a female from Afghanistan that utilizes the services of sex workers?
No. But I do find it hard to believe that a Afghani lesbian Christian has manged to stay alive so long under Taliban regime not to mention achieving a Post Doctoral under a regime that outlaws education for females.
jesus loves me, this i know, for the bible tells me so. little ones to him belong, they are weak, but he is strong. yes, jesus loves me. yes, jesus loves me. yes, jesus loves me... the bible tells me so. #184
No Jesus doesn't love you at all. You are "unclean" and an "abomination to the lord your god", and your sentence is "death", because the bible tells ME so!
So I believe you when you tell us "i reject your reality... and substitute it, with my own reality". https://www.debateart.com/members/n8nrgim
This obviously includes biblical reality that you have rejected to replace with your own biblical reality.
But I am not surprised. There are many bible ignorant Christians here that prefer to rewrite scripture to make themselves feel better or less guilty. It must ease their conscience a little.
Anyway. If you prefer chewing the rug and trying on another woman's beard for size, you go for it, gnash away, Princess. Its no business of mine, no matter how much you deny and defy scripture and your Lord Jesus.
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@n8nrgim
@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
And why don't you pay for prostitutes if you are horny? I often tell people, if it wasn't for my Christian faith, I'd frequent sex workers a whole lot more.
"a whole lot more", than you -a Christian - already do. 😂
1 Corinthians 6:13
The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
1 Corinthians 6:15-16 Don’t you realize that your bodies are actually parts of Christ? Should a man take his body, which is part of Christ, and join it to a prostitute? Never! And don’t you realize that if a man joins himself to a prostitute, he becomes one body with her? For the Scriptures say, “The two are united into one.”
n8nrgim bio: i reject your reality... and substitute it, with my own reality https://www.debateart.com/members/n8nrgim
What is your reality? A man calling himself female? 😂
n8nrgim Bio:Country Afghanistan https://www.debateart.com/members/n8nrgim
However are you surviving the Taliban? 😂
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
, do you think that they [ n8nrgim and Miss Tradesecret] have the nerve to post again in this thread?
I hope n8nrgim does post again, Brother D. I am intrigued to know how an Afghani Christian women gets to "frequent sex workers" i.e. prostitutes? It's about time we had a new tall story teller on the forum. Would make for a good start to the knew year.
I am not too interested in the bible dunce clown Reverend Tradesecret . I think he has well spent all of his ripping yarns and tall tales about himself on this forum. It's time for some new ones. And n8nrgim had made a grand start with "her" bio that is almost a year old now.
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@n8nrgim
And why don't you pay for prostitutes if you are horny? I often tell people, if it wasn't for my Christian faith, I'd frequent sex workers a whole lot more.
"a whole lot more", than you -a Christian - already do. 😂
1 Corinthians 6:13
The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
1 Corinthians 6:15-16 Don’t you realize that your bodies are actually parts of Christ? Should a man take his body, which is part of Christ, and join it to a prostitute? Never! And don’t you realize that if a man joins himself to a prostitute, he becomes one body with her? For the Scriptures say, “The two are united into one.”
n8nrgim bio: i reject your reality... and substitute it, with my own reality https://www.debateart.com/members/n8nrgim
What is your reality? A man calling himself female? 😂
n8nrgim Bio:Country Afghanistan https://www.debateart.com/members/n8nrgim
However are you surviving the Taliban? 😂
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@Best.Korea
In order to earn billions, one has to be[.............................] very cruel.
And probably have no conscience.
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@Best.Korea
Biggest mistake of Christians
Was adopting a god from a time they didn't understand, and culture they didn't understand.
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@Best.Korea
Tradesecret wrote @ Best.KoreaThe judge must weigh the evidence before he can assess the guilt or innocence.
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ from the man that claims to be a Criminal Lawyer!!!!!!? and claims to have represented client/s internationally!!!!!
Judges do not "weigh the evidence" and neither do they "assess the guilt or innocence." That is the job of the Jury? The defendant either pleads guilty or the jury finds him innocent or guilty.
The Judge is a referee, and are only there to keep defence and prosecution within the spirit law. .
Tradesecret wrote: I am a lawyer. There you go.
Tradesecret wrote:"I counsel all of my clients never to answer yes or no.
Why would a god need to "weigh the evidence"? Doesn't know us and our hearts already? Matthew 9:4 - Psalm 44:21 and the other 136 bible verse telling us that god knows everything about us.
FFS! Just when you thought the Reverend Tradesecret couldn't get any more contradictory and bible stupid, he gets worse with every post.
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@Best.Korea
Who cares about money?
I do. Think of all the people one could lift out of homelessness, poverty and starvation if you had billions upon billions of cash. Is it any wonder governments around the world are trying to get rid of it. Once cash disappears, they will be the last bit of freedom that you believed you had, GONE!
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
From the gift that keeps giving, Brother D.
Tradesecret Wrote: I have noticed new persons arrive and then are targeted. [.............................] And then they leave.
Would be nice for the Reverend to actually cite who these "new persons" are, wouldn't it Brother D. ?
My guess he won't do that because they have every chance of being his own invented personas. Like I keep saying, the Reverend is far to stupid to understand human syntax.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
I did indeed Deb. See what you make of this.
I sent him a follow up to this reply. See bold below.
On Wednesday, 20 December 2023 at 18:46:06 GMT, Gary L. Wimmer wrote:
I believe everything we experience CAN benefit us, but we get to choose to see it that way and develop... or not.
Choose to tune into what you can learn and change, and meditation is a key to tapping into that INFINITE POWER from where we came and will return.
Later, Gary
MEDITATION
Every NDE and spiritual experience is unique, yet we are all connected to the one and only INFINITE MIND. Tapping into it involves using techniques. Consider this:
Life guarantees plenty of surprises, unexpected changes and all kinds of challenges. But if we never faced such aspects of life, we’d never learn how to deal with them. And nothing we experience has to be in vain, unless we choose to see it that way.
The truth is we all live life from the inside, and how we see ourselves and life creates the path we go down, be it Good, Bad or Ugly. True power is always based upon our perspectives, attitudes and intentions, and the most empowering aspect of being human is Free Will. We all have it, and how we use it matters. If we choose to learn and grow, regardless of the situation, we can and will, over time and with practice. Or we can choose to continue playing yesterday’s broken records, regrets, fears and doubts in our head. But we do not have to.
The keys to peace, growth, love, acceptance, wisdom, creativity and happiness are always WITHIN. As humans, we are all limited in many ways, but there is absolutely no limit to how much we can expand in these internal areas.
Learning to tap into one’s unlimited personal power and connect to Infinite Mind is a technique, like playing golf or driving. And to learn any technique or accomplish any goal, one must first DECIDE to do so, then PRACTICE. Therefore, to access and use one’s internal power requires turning one’s Internal Light on, and keeping it on.
Our minds can be logical and rational or filled with fear and doubt. Accordingly, it is important to consciously and intentionally re-boot, to learn from the past then let go of it, to drop our fears and doubts (at least temporarily) and to give our minds a rest. Meditation is the most powerful technique one can use for such purposes. It’s natural, has been encouraged by every enlightened spiritual leader throughout history, is at the core of all religions and is now recognized by the scientific community for the profound effects it has on one’s health, physical and mental.
Want true power? Practice developing it through meditation.
Lay down or sit down, relax, then breathe slow and deep, slower and deeper... you are setting yourself up to begin meditation... so when your mind starts thinking about issues and trying to solve problems... Guess What? You are thinking about issues and trying to solve problems, not meditating. So gently pull you mind, intentions and awareness back to the simplicity of breathing slow and deep, here and now, slower and deeper…
If you have trouble silencing your mind, as many people do when they first learn to meditate, thing of a sound or mantra, like “OM� or “Amen� or think of a picture of a beautiful place or someone you love, or imagine a LIGHT passing through your body from your head to your toes… Think of one single thing rather than everything.
Once you learn to pacify your mind – which is natural and simple – meditation can become second nature, available whenever you want or need a shift of consciousness. And only the owner of one’s consciousness can alter it… for better or worse.
Give meditation and a shift in your thinking a chance. Only you can do so. And the rewards empower one to seek and find the LIGHT, rather than remain in darkness.
Those who effectively meditate have practiced and learned the above. Period.
Practice... and still your mind by your own free will… and receive new results in your life.
Gary L. Wimmer
Austin, TX 78745
512 707-0836
Land Line Leave message and tel #
..............................................................................................................
Dear Mr Wimmer.
Thank you for your swift reply.
How does one "choose" to "tune in" to something that is such a terrifying experience and neither understands?
How do I know if or not that a malevolent spirit being is trying to contact me or worse, possess me?
What are the signs of a good spirit or bad spirit?
Thank you for your time.
My kindest regards.
Stephen
He sent this in reply:
"Tuning in" is an art - like effective meditation - that takes time, commitment and practice to develop.
Such matters are a process, not a button.
Keep meditating and asking and believing and STOP playing the same old broken record internally.
Only you can do this...
Later, Gary
Such matters are a process, not a button.
Keep meditating and asking and believing and STOP playing the same old broken record internally.
Only you can do this...
Later, Gary
Do you see what is wrong with his response Deb?
I shall be sending him another today, Deb.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
MISS TRADESECRETS EMBARRASSING QUOTE REGARDING JESUS AS GOD: “As a general principle, God is opposed to murder. Murder is wrong because it strikes at the image of God in humanity. And to do so is actually attacking God.”
Except when its him doing the murdering.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
@zedvictor4
I contacted Gary Wimmer at the email address. Here [email protected]
Dear Mr Wimmer.
I have been having out of body experiences since my early teens. I am now in my late 60's. I have never been in an accident or suffered any serious physical injuries in my life.
The experiences I have are terrifying in the extreme. My body stiffens I can't move, as if paralysed and then I leave my body.
The fear and dread I experience, I can only describe as being buried alive. I don't "travel" anywhere, neither do I experience bright lights, colour, tunnels, other planets or universe. Nor do I converse with anyone or thing. I just find the whole terrifying experience horrific.
With the obvious treasured gift that you posses, could you please explain to me why I have these terrifying, horrific experiences?
I appreciate your precious time.
My kindest regards.
Stephen
I shall post his reply that I received today in the morning.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
he will incite others to report you with his outright lies about you as shown where you allegedly threatened this Hell Bound Atheist! Yet, Lemming has yet to show that you threatened him, AND, has yet to show that I threatened him as well as him being silent in embarrassment.
Indeed Brother D. I have searched my own posts for this alleged threat and all turned up negative. But while searching for this non existent threat I was also searching for any posts from Lemming inciting /advising me that I should report the Reverend Tradesecret for the disgusting uncalled for abuse that I received written by his "fingers".
I didn't find any. Not a One. Don't you think that odd, Brother D. ? It must be a case of the two tier policing that many are experiencing these days.
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@Ultramaga
Jesus changes lives.
How?
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@Best.Korea
I worship both Jesus and Satan. Its called getting along with everyone.
There's more to that statement than you may realise, BK.
I mean, Jesus loves his enemies, so Jesus loves Satan too.
Did Jesus pray for "Satan" who was only doing gods will? Did he forgive him? And Peter, who, according to the NT betrayed Jesus three times but Christians will have us believe that Jesus forgave him for his 3 times betrayal and "gave him the keys to his kingdom".
And I love them both, because they are kinda cool.Satan is cooler,
Well if Christians are to be believed in their interpretation of the bible, you should love and forgive your enemies. So why are both Satan and Judas so vilified by Christianity for carrying out the will of god?
but Jesus is fun too.
I have never found anything "funny" about Jesus or his failed mission. have you, BK?
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@Lemming
I'd imagine there are words worthwhile in the Quran,
And only to "imagine something worthwhile" is as probably as far as you get before the reality of its content slaps you right between your eyebrows.
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@rosends
I don't know anything about that story or the Book of Noah. The sotah ritual, though, was not in place until after the giving of he law at Sinai and only applied to Jews (and there are other reasons...). Since the Lemech era was well before, I would hazard to guess that the ritual would not have been used.
That's interesting. Thank you, Rosi.
Noah by some accounts had "skin white as snow with locks of white hair, with eyes that were fair that lit up a room when he opened them". Lamec believed his "strange son., unlike man" Noah to be "the offspring of the son's of god" I was thinking albino myself. But Lamec's father Methuselah explained things to him.
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@IlDiavolo
Jesus said " I am the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end".<<< That also should be significant.Jesus here is speaking of the celestial "heavenly" House he is claiming to belong to. You may want to keep that in mind.I've read Jesus is the God's son of Pisces House, and Moses is the one of Aries House. Do you agree with that?
Yes, I have already said that to you.
First, and as I mentioned before "son of god is a title" only. #15
Jesus was an Earthly king or believed himself to be. This gives him the right to be titled "Son of God". He was a King that believed his time had come to rule because of the signs in the sky told him (and others) so. He must have learned this somewhere.
As for the celestial Houses , Aries the RAM was the SIGN of the biblical Moses. Pisces the FISH was the SIGN of the New Testament Jesus. BUT< the Age of the Fish and the next Age Aquarius the Water Pourer slightly overlap.
What do you expect to happen in the coming years (or decades)? According to some prophecies that apparently come from the aliens (the new angels), they are showing up with their crafts anytime soon to live with us.
Well I have good reason to believe that the Age of the Fish is almost at it's very end and is well past the overlap and that Age of Aquarius is almost on the horizon. it could be now. It depends on what house appears on the horizon in the very near future?
People do not realise that we are maybe still in the Age of the Fish but at the End of Days. What would amaze them more so is that anyone born since the dawn of 1st century AD, no matter what day month or year they were born are all members of the House of Pisces the Fish. i.e. We are all Pisceans.
There will be a deep crisis in the church.
That's already here. Along with many other things predicted in 1st century AD. And I have explained to you how we know and how they were able to predict (prophecy) about it. It is simple. The Past is our Future. It happens at every cross over. I will remind you. At every cross over, the Heavens and so the Earth suffer utter chaos. The heavenly chaos causes so much disaster and turmoil here on earth that we suffer all those things I have spoken of earlier, as does the bible. The people of the Earth have witnessed two of these cross overs. The "gods" witnessed more. They were here AGES before they created the Adama.
The only thing that we have going for us is the capability to cope more efficiently so casualties will be reduced compared to those that witnesses the last cross over.
Also, there is a coming discovery related to Egypt and the Christ that nobody understands. And a new civilization model that is going to come up in Argentina.
Well that is a new one on me, D.
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