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@zedvictor4
Its all Greek to me , Vic. 😊
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@Best.Korea
Makes the punishment for armed rob is ..Forced ( man laying with / men. )Thats somewhat a little hash isn't it.They dont force male homosexual to lay with females do they.People sometimes even tend to turn gay in prison.
And when they become members of the clergy?
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@TheUnderdog
@BrotherD.Thomas
@Best.Korea
@YouFound_Lxam
TheUnderdog wrote: Who created hell? God did.YouFound_Lxam wrote: Nope. #19
WRONG!! AGAIN!!
Like I have to keep reminding you LF_L, you really should read your bible before attempting to insert your own opinions into scripture and present them as bible fact.
The bible says god prepared hell for the Devil and his followers/ sinners. Look it up for yourself. I'm fed up with you rewriting scripture to fit your own narrative.
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@TheUnderdog
Tradesecret wrote: But it was taken out of contextAlso irrelevant. If the bible says a good quote, the Christain accepts it at face value. If the bible says a bad quote, the Christain argues it's out of context. Don't work backwards from your conclusion.#17
Indeed and when asked then to put a questionable ambiguous bible verse into context 'for clarity' the request is then explained as the reader - "not being able to understand the original ancient Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic". I quite like this response to be honest. Because when the Christian uses these excuses, they, in their ignorance do not realize that they have simply rendered ALL and ANY bible written in English pointless and redundant and have consigned the bible to the litter bin.
The Underdog @ Tradesecret: If you need God to tell you these things are immoral to prevent you......
The haughty Christian has always been of the deluded self belief that only they have the monopoly on morals, truth and honesty. But my challenged to that claim/belief has always been to ask the Christian to name me one moral deed /action that a devout Christian performs that a non-Christian cannot perform?
I simply find it hard to imagine that every time a Christian performed a moral deed and was thanked for it, that the response would be to the grateful recipient would be " don't thank me, god caused me to do it".
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@TheUnderdog
YouFound_Lxam wrote @ TheUnderdog, What I saw in what you said however is a lack of understanding of Christianity.
This from the same clown that wrote this>>>> "I do know the scriptures."#69
The whole teaching of Christianity comes from the very scriptures that YouFound_Lxam admits to not knowing! ?
This is typical of many Christians that claim to be devoutly religious and quick to accuse others of being ignorant sinners yet have never read the bible themselves.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
And you talk about these "things" like they are ,well.Like Things.
You'll like this Deb.
The thing that made the things for which there is no known maker.
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@Best.Korea
Many Christians know by now that Bible cannot be understood literally.
Indeed, BK. But then we have clowns like this admitting on the one hand:
YouFound_Lxam I do know the scriptures.#69
While on the other hand accusing us of taking the bible " out of context" #69 and creating " strawmen to support our arguments". 😂
The fkn nerve of these bellends 😂
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@YouFound_Lxam
But can you answer the question of: Why do couples decide to have children. You can't answer that because you aren't the parents. You do not know.To create more people to "till the land " and "subdue it", Genesis 1:28, you absolute clown.No. See you can't even take my question into context. I am talking about in general. Not what the Bible says about it. In general.
So you preferer to totally ignore the holy scriptures and rewrite them.🤣🤣🤣🤣
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@IlDiavolo
@Best.Korea
The membership needs to consider that the current Pope's speech in favor of homosexuals is not accepted by all the church so there is an internal dispute right now about this issue.
Not only the RC. invitation to homosexuals.
"First 'gender-queer' priest in Church of England expresses desire for 'normalizing' identity among children
Rev. Bingo Allison claimed God 'was guiding me' into a gender-queer identity during Bible study.
Rev. Bingo Allison claimed God 'was guiding me' into a gender-queer identity during Bible study.
A non-binary gender-queer Anglican priest in the UK is on record claiming to use the clerical position in hopes of "normalizing" such behavior among children".
And these are the religious institutions that the Reverend Tradesecret in all of his "god given wisdom" believes homosexuals and Transsexuals should be "pointed to" and obviously with complete and utter disregard for what his god has to say on the matter.
Like I keep saying, that clown shoots himself in the foot with every post.
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@Best.Korea
tradesecret's interpretations of the Bible change to suit the times.
Tradesecret's interpretations, opinions and assertions of the bible change by the minute. BK. Especially after he has painted himself into a tight theological corner , which he does with every other post.
Tradesecret did make many absurd claims, but the claim that pointing gays towards religion that will condemn them is "beneficial", its just nonsense.One must ask: Who benefits from that?
Which is exactly what I asked above, BK #75
Stephen wrote: I notice here that the Reverend Tradesecret doesn't tell us why homosexuals and transvestites should be pointed to Christ, or why it is beneficial?He means then, pointed in the direction of the Christian Church.A church that is riddled with homosexuality and child abuse to its core and to which those freely given hard earned donations from his poor parishioners have gone towards paying £BILLIONS in hush money, defending the church in child abuse sex cases and compensation to the child victims of depraved sexual abuse?Victims of sexual deviant Pastors and Priests and of which many transvestites have become accepted member of the clergy. << <<< Is this what the Reverend Tradesecret means by being "pointed in the direction of Christ"?Wouldn't it be nice for us to hear in his own words of wisdom (that he asked god for and received) the Reverend Tradesecret explain to us why it would be "beneficial" for, or to, homosexuals and transvestites to be pointed to the Christian church, BK? #75
Maybe that bible cretin will answer you considering he is frightened of answering any of my questions, BK....... good luck.😊
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@Best.Korea
@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Tradesecret wrote @ best.Korea " I think it is beneficial to point homosexuals to Christ. And also Trans". #34
I notice here that the Reverend Tradesecret doesn't tell us why homosexuals and transvestites should be pointed to Christ, or why it is beneficial?
He means then, pointed in the direction of the Christian Church.
A church that is riddled with homosexuality and child abuse to its core and to which those freely given hard earned donations from his poor parishioners have gone towards paying £BILLIONS in hush money, defending the church in child abuse sex cases and compensation to the child victims of depraved sexual abuse?
Victims of sexual deviant Pastors and Priests and of which many transvestites have become accepted member of the clergy. << <<< Is this what the Reverend Tradesecret means by being "pointed in the direction of Christ"?
Wouldn't it be nice for us to hear in his own words of wisdom (that he asked god for and received) the Reverend Tradesecret explain to us why it would be "beneficial" for, or to, homosexuals and transvestites to be pointed to the Christian church, BK?
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@YouFound_Lxam
I keep having to remind you, you do not know your scriptures. I am not surprised you don't know why, although the bible makes clear why humans were created.READ GENESIS 2:5"there was not a man to till the ground".I do know the scriptures.But I also know that you are very well known for taking them out of biblical context to use for your arguments.
So you don't know the scriptures but you believe you know I "take them out of context". What a ridiculous statement to make.😂
Genisis 2:1-5 (lets also look at the context):So, the heavens and the earth and everything in them were completed. On the seventh day God had completed his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy, for on it he rested from all his work of creation.These are the records of the heavens and the earth, concerning their creation. At the time that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, no shrub of the field had yet grown on the land, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not made it rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground.So, I don't know exactly what you are talking about here, but I know for a fact it's not talking about how God wanted to create us for his enjoyment, let alone explaining why he created us.
Why do we not take a close look at those verses in full
Genesis 2:1-5New International Version
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[ and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground,
Do you see that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^STUPID!
why did god create anything at all in the first place?<<< maybe you can answer that for us?A short answer is:I do not know.
I am not surprised, when you cannot even read the BIBLE in context
All that I can say is that he created us for a divine purpose.
And the biblical references for that are ?
But can you answer the question of: Why do couples decide to have children. You can't answer that because you aren't the parents. You do not know.
To create more people to "till the land " and "subdue it", Genesis 1:28, you absolute clown. At least try and read your bible before making assertions and attempting to insert your unsupported opinions into scripture..... and accusing me of taking them out of context.
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@TheUnderdog
I'm LGBTYou' have to excuse my ignorance but is it possible to be all four?No. The first 3 letters are mutually exclusive sets.But none of the first 3 letters are mutually exclusive with the 4th letter (I'm not in the 4th letter).
So that will be lesbian, gay, bisexual ?
WTF! so you are not four but three, and you swing both ways while at the same time you are two? have you ever considered that it maybe that have mental issues or have been caused to be confused or simply that you are just going with the zeitgeist?
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@TheUnderdog
I'm LGBT
You' have to excuse my ignorance but is it possible to be all four?
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@Deb-8-a-bull
End of fucking story.
Nope, Deb: Its a never ending story. Its only the end of one of the 12 chapters...... then it starts all over again when all twelve chapters have been read.
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@Best.Korea
I keep having to remind you, you do not know your scriptures. I am not surprised you don't know why, although the bible makes clear why humans were created.I feel like they are trying to re-write the Bible.
The Reverend Tradesecret is famous for it.
Bible in its original literal understanding is morally impossible to defend.
If you mean the parts of the bible that concern violence I would agree, they cannot be defended.
Why Christians cannot simply admit that this was the common practice of culture of the time under the rule of the god of that time then their form of religious ideology may appear more palatable. But the problem with that is they would have to accept the the god of the NT is not the same god of the OT........which to my mind is exactly what happened .
I have said many times that Christian dilemmas and problems have arisen because Christians have adopted a god from a age and culture they simply had no understanding of.
It would be desirable for Christians if some new Bible came to replace the old Bible, or just take out undesirable parts of the current Bible.
Well no. If this was to happen we would lose a time in history of the age and culture of those ancient times. With that said, for anyone that has studied the bible along with ancient history it cannot go un-noticed that a large part of biblical history has been expunged, ie. the 500 + year period in the history when the Jews were ruled the Greeks.
When people read and have studied the bible for themselves it can or should be quickly realised that the OT is concerned only with one single bloodline ruled by one god, their god.. Jesus makes this clear himself.
The expunging was done in order to show (or give the impression) that the bloodline had never been broken and has been continuous under one single original god.
But don't expect ignorant bible thicko's such as the Reverend Tradesecret to ever understand or admit to that , no matter how many expert theologists the lying bible dunce alleges to have studied under i.e. the best theologists in the world or how many ancient languages he claims to have studied and is able to read, and has translated into English.
My point is that the bible has already undergone some drastic changes.
But these 'changes' have all been to promote the one bloodline I mention above.
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@YouFound_Lxam
1. I don't know why God created us, but to assume that he just created us for the sole purpose of his enjoyment is illogical,
I keep having to remind you, you do not know your scriptures. I am not surprised you don't know why, although the bible makes clear why humans were created.
READ GENESIS 2:5
"there was not a man to till the ground".
A better question would be - as I have been asking since the day I joined this forum and no Christian can answer- is:
why did god create anything at all in the first place?<<< maybe you can answer that for us?
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
The title of this thread is "reasons I am not a Christian".
I believe that anyone that has had the patience to follow the Reverend Tradsecret's responses that he has posted to others in particular on the forum would be enough reason to put anyone off becoming a Christian. I feel so sorry for those students he claims to tutor and teach at universities and for his congregation of over 300 parishioners in particular.
I mean, what could they possibly ever be learning!?
I can only assume that his sermons consist of only " Jesus loves you" and now you can all go home; for which he may as well issue them all with the customary "Jesus loves you" bumper sticker and save himself, his students and congregation of 300 a lot of precious time...... and money. Think of the cash he would save on overheads that he could give to the poor.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
I am praying to Jesus nightly for Him to inform Miss Tradesecret to give this forum a break from her Bible Stupidity
And I hope he continues to keep revealing his ignorance, Brother D. 😂
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@Best.Korea
@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Tradesecret wrote @ Best.Korea: Stephen and Brother have both condemned people and their position on this site.
Lets see it then. In context.
Tradesecret wrote @ Best.Korea: Stephen has on many occasions effectively damned Muslims and many Christians. #34
So that cretin Tradsecret keeps saying. But he must have missed the "many occasions" that I have always maintained that Muslims are the biggest victims of their own vile Islamic ideology spread by the words in the Quran. Most recently Here> #47 Here> #76
While also the Reverend Tradesecret stays quiet concerning anti Christian Quranic verses such as this:
Quran 51 - You, who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies."
Quran8:12 - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve/ Christians and Jews. There fore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them".
I actually state that I would choose Christianity over Islam any day. Here>>#113
The Reverend Tradesecret on the other hand ,is terrified of defending his faith in the face of the enemy of his own faith.
Tradesecret wrote @ Best.Korea: Stephen has damned many Christians
Lets see where I have done that, and in context, please.
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@Best.Korea
@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Tradesecret, Wrote@ Best.Korea. at least attempt to prevent Brother or Stephen from their attacking and criticism and condemnation [of homosexuals & transvestites?]#27
I cannot speak for Brother D. But I will speak for myself:
I would like for the Reverend Tradesecret to show me anywhere in the whole of this forum that I have condemned or criticised homosexuals & transvestites?
And, in return I can give examples where it is god himself that condemned and criticised homosexuals & transvestites and authorises the depth penalty for what he himself describes as an "abomination"..
Leviticus 20:13 New King James Version
13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.
Deuteronomy 22:5 A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this.
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@Best.Korea
6. I dont want to live a life thinking that I am a sinner just because I was born. [of woman]
Indeed, BK. I wrote on this thread of mine titled, Original Sin;
Stephen wrote: If every man "born of women" did "inherit sin" from Eve "the mother of all living" then it came from only one place; god.
To support my above claim one only has to read this verse:
1 Corinthians 11:12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.
To be "born of woman" was a derogatory slight, towards mankind. i.e an insult .
The book of Job confirms this. And Luke's Gospel has Jesus insulting John the Baptist using this very term. As does Matthew. But what the pastors and the priests like to ignore (more likely hadn't realised) is the BIBLICAL fact that Jesus himself was "born of woman".
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
@Morphinekid77
No, I do not"DEBATE" Bible Stupid pseudo-christians like you since my godly arrival upon this Religion Forum in years past, BUT, I will discuss their Bible Stupidity and runaway status like yours in the "RELIGION FORUM" for quicker end results for all to see! Get it? Huh? Maybe? Just a little bit? SCARED?Well, there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. Here lies brother Thomas. He spent years pounding his chest, but, we've finally laid him to rest
Who is "we"? It is not compulsory to debate and I can't speak for Brother D. but l don't like debate forum either. I prefer to discuss here in the open forum where a conversation is more likely to get more views and discussion.
Of course, it shouldn't surprise you that a troll, with little intention of having serious discussion, should be inclined to run away so publicly and so gloriously at the slightest challenge.
There are many here that refuse point blank to have any sort of "serious discussion". but would rather use this religion forum as a pulpit. I am willing to have a discussion with you on these ambiguous and unreliable gospels anytime.
However, I didn't expect his defeat to be so deliciously obvious.
Well you keep acting like the cats that had the cream, but it doesn't impress me at all.
In his own words, he refuses to step into the debate arena with me.
And so would I for reasons I gave above. And it is in no way a reflection on my capability to hold a discussion with you or anyone else.
That's right, my friends. A chubby little school boy, with a paper bag over his face, has publicly shamed, humiliated, and silenced one of the most notorious debate art trolls in history.
Ad hominem doesn't impress me either. and neither does you gasconading.
And what do we have left now? My dear friends?
The question is what is that you have, and by what authority to claim an imagined victory over another member without discussion taking place. You offered a challenge, it was turned down. Ergo no one can claim to have won anything.
Legends. We have legends.
And who would the legend be?
"Do you remember that time Brother D Thomas got called out to a public debate?""Yeah...I do... Whatever happened?""He backed out!""No way!""Yep, the guy talked a big game, but in the end he didn't have the moxie.""Who was the guy who challenged him?""Can't remember the guys name, super handsome though. He's probably on a yacht somewhere, sipping champagne as he floats off into the sunset. Chubby little bastard"
A conversation that only appears in your own mind.
Yep, that's right folks. That's what will echo on this forum for years to come.
Only by yourself, it seems.
While users will come and go, one thing will not go... The ghost of shame. The memory that brother Thomas chickened out of a debate... After YEARS of smack talk!!!!.. Those my dear friends, are the whispers that can never truly be silent.
I don't think so.
And now, my humble debate fellows, my work here is done. I came, I saw....I exposed.
Nope. You fkn failed all round.
And I shall return from whence I came.
That is a shame. I was hoping to run rings around you in a forum discussion concerning any of the fours gospels of your choice.
Good day, my fellow debate art members. Just remember one thing.The forum is now free.
It always has been. And now you are an has-been.
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@Best.Korea
@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Tradesecret [email protected]: Religion as it generally is understood is - humanity trying to find God / gods and making them happy.Thankfully, some religions, for example, Christianity, is not like other religions. It is not trying to find God.
Only the thickest of bible ignorant Christians could make a statement like that.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
"Seek and you will find", Matthew7:7 must have slipped that exceptionally gifted mind and power of being able to memorise the bible backwards and forwards in many ancient languages that the Reverend Tradesecret keeps bragging he possesses," from a very early age " too. Brother D.
As did these few also: of the top of my head:
Deuteronomy 4:29
But from there you will seek the Lord your God, and you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul.
Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.
Jeremiah 29:14
I will be found by you,’ declares the Lord, ‘and I will restore your fortunes and will gather you from all the nations and from all the places where I have driven you,’ declares the Lord, ‘and I will bring you back to the place from where I sent you into exile.’
Psalm 32:6
Therefore, let everyone who is godly pray to You in a time when You may be found;
Surely in a flood of great waters they will not reach him.
Acts 17:27
that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
Proverbs 8:17
“I love those who love me;
And those who diligently seek me will find me.
Proverbs 8:35
“For he who finds me finds life
And obtains favor from the Lord.
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@Best.Korea
Tradesecret wrote: @ Best. Korea. The Bible declares that Murder is sinful.
Unless its god doing the murdering.
All first born of Egypt.
Could have prevented all first born killed by Herod.
Children of the Amalekites
Joshua and Arron murdered children on the orders of their god.
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@zedvictor4
Hope that you enjoyed the beer and some good company.
Twenty steps out the door and I nearly forced myself back indoors. It was freezing cold Vic. 😒
But it was all forgotten once I had my first pint..😊
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@zedvictor4
And then along came clever folk with stupid ideas.
That is more true that you may realise , Vic.
With every new age came new god with his new ideas . They called them "new covenants" in the bible". It was out with the old ways of the old god and in with the new ways of the new god. A careful reading of the Old Testament makes this more than clear. Exodus in particular is the best clear example. Starting with, to the new priests explicitly telling them "you shall neither do what is done in the land of Egypt, you shall not behave like them nor follow their statutes".
Followed by 10 new commandments and pages upon pages of detailed commandments of dietary instruction, medicine and its teaching, law, agricultural directives, architectural instructions, family and sexual conduct, property and criminal laws and scientific disciplines. Expertise in metallurgy and textiles. Lessons in history, numerology, astronomy and on and on it goes, with lessons in the customs of other god of other nations. And there was always a major war involved.
I'd like to expand on this but its Tuesday today and I am off to the pub shortly. I only go to the pub twice a week..... as a rule.
Have a good day, Vic. Give Mrs Vic my kindest regards.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
@Morphinekid77
Morphinekid77, Wrote: "God did not create logic. God IS logic. Logic is a reflection of how He thinks. God is Truth and truth excludes contradictions. God is eternal therefore God is eternally logical."Brother D. Thomas wrote @ Morphinekid77,Praise your recognition of our brutal serial killerJesus like you have done in your revealing quote above! Yes, our Jesus God is LOGICAL when He proffered the following godly inspired passages, agreed?!1. “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.” (Exodus 21:7)2. “And I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and their daughters, and everyone shall eat the flesh of his neighbor in the siege and in the distress, with which their enemies and those who seek their life afflict them.’ (Jeremiah 19:9)3. "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou BEATEST him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt BEAT HIM with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." (Proverbs.23:13-14)4. JESUS AS GOD SAID: “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. (Matthew 15: 3-4)5. JESUS STATED: “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:26)In the same context as Jesus being LOGICAL in HIs inspired passages above, it seemingly was logical for your Catholic Priests to bum fuck little innocent boys because they are always forgiven of this dastardly sin? YES? ..... “For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Romans 10:13)Morphinekid77, have you ever followed the passages above in the name of Jesus?
And all "logical" according to Morphinekid77. It would be interesting to hear how Morphinekid77 explain the "logic" behind those verses Brother D.
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Long term hibernation is plausible given enough mastery of biology but is certainly not around the corner.
A worm has been revived after 46,000 years in the Siberian permafrost.
Scientists successfully revive animal frozen 30 years ago
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@n8nrgim
Where is the connection to religion in creating this thread.
Did the ancients know about, such things?
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@Best.Korea
Death is not the punishment.Life is the punishment.
Not sure how true that is BK. But it certainly feel like it at times.
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@n8nrgim
After the creation story. The bible becomes a book of war and conquest. That is only concerned with the welfare and prosperity of one blood line. With recurring themes.
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@Mall
Spirit of Christ according to Romans 8 is in those that belong to him. The spirit is the the spirit of God.
But "spirit", what is it in the religion/biblical sense. exactly?
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@zedvictor4
Thing with this type of argumentative clash of religious ideologies is that both Christian and Muslim come to the table with their minds already made up well in
advance.
And it seems that they are both only looking for a agreement, reassurance and looking around for corroborating evidence that supports their claim/s.
What upsets them most is when those things we call facts enter into the equation. When such facts arise that clearly contradict their overriding beliefs they are simply ignored and waived away with a flick of the hand, even when the facts have comes from their own "holy" sources.
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@Mall
If you don't have the Spirit of Christ...............when you don't have that spirit, your none of his.
Can you explain the "spirit if Christ" to me, please?
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@Best.Korea
So we shouldnt copy Jesus.
Unless there is a throne up for grabs. And a "kingdom" to rule over. BK
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@zedvictor4
Much preferring the fairy story they were told as kids.
And understandable considering that their fathers, fathers, fathers, fathers, fathers, fathers, fathers, fathers fathers, fathers father had drummed it into them from birth. More interesting to me is that over the three synoptics particularly, they actually do spell it out between them. John's gospel fills in some of the gaps and links them all together.
Most of them have probably never even read the book.
Indeed. I have met many Priests that don't even know the basic story. Vic. Not happy when a few biblical facts are pointed out to them. But they soldier on all the same. I believe its called - denial.
Have a good day my mate.
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@Best.Korea
Well, thats interesting, but I am kinda confused as to why he ordered them to arm themselves.
For the impending rebellion that he took part in. That the bible makes a poor attempt tries to hide.
The only time sword was used was once, and Jesus then forbid further use.
Well not quite. When Simon removed the ear of the priests servant (depending on which version one chooses t believe) Jesus simply said "no more of this" Luke.
“Put your sword away! ". John. "“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword". Matthew.
All very good advice considering they were outnumbered at the time of his arrest. The bible tells us that it was a "cohort " of legionnaires + many of Harrods guards, and guards of servants of the chief priests. So we can see they were certainly expecting a fight, what caused them to believe that they would need nearly a thousand men to arrest a sandal wearing peaceful preacher?
It could be that Bible doesnt tell the whole story.
It doesn't BK
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@zedvictor4
Would have been daft to sell the hero as a baddie.
Well for me, they did a bad job of hiding his true nature, Vic.
He wasn't going to talk his way to the throne of Jerusalem, that's fact.
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@Best.Korea
Well, Jesus was never in military.
Well not that you'd know from reading the bible .....unless of course, one looks at it closely.
Mark 6:40 King James Version
And they sat down in ranks, by hundreds, and by fifties.
Mark 6:31 And he commanded them to make all sit down by companies
Couple this with the fact all his recruits were from the bad lands of Galilee and all his disciples were Zealots, that hated Rome, Romans and anything Roman. And he ordered his disciples to arm themselves even if it meant selling the cloths of their backs to buy arms.
And it for verses like these that I have always maintained that there is another story just below the surface of the New Testamant.
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@Best.Korea
So one must wonder, does Bible teach how self-defense is wrong?
It depend on how Christians like to interpret the bible.... when it suites them to do so.BK
Jesus says we should love our enemies, forgive them and turn the other cheek.
This of course didn't stop the sword wielding disciple Simon Peter attacking the high priests servant and lopping off his lug hole. Although Jesus handed himself over peacefully.
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@Best.Korea
Sadly, now muslims must explain why islam, which they think is "best religion", is mostly followed by morally inferior people.
That is a good question.
But they can't. They run the risk of blasphemy which can sometimes also carry a death sentence just for questioning the " perfect word of Allah".
Then there is education. Millions of Muslims cannot even read so have to rely on the Imams to read and interpret the Quran for them. And one has to keep in mind that this religious ideology always comes with threats.
It appears that the non believer has more chance of the death penalty for blasphemy than a disbelieving Muslim.
But then again:
Iran has hanged two men convicted of blasphemy, according to authorities, carrying out rare death sentences for the crime as the number of executions soars across the Islamic Republic after months of unrest.
The country remains one of the world’s top executioners, having put to death at least 203 prisoners so far this year, according to the Oslo-based group Iran Human Rights. But executions for blasphemy remain rare, as in previous cases the sentences have been reduced by authorities.
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@Best.Korea
Extreme intolerance in "British" Islamic School
Undercover Camera Exposes Hate Taught In Muslim Schools
The ex BBC 'go to' pinup boy Muslim Mehdi Hasan when ever there is a Islamic terrorist attack.
"Anyone not Muslim is an animal . And are people that sleep with their mothers". But it gets worse.
This is how he talks when he is among his Muslim brothers.
if this is the face of Islamic tolerance then we are fkd. BK
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@zedvictor4
Shakespeare. As in beat them at their own game, then.
Nice.
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@aql_reason
And again you are appealing to authority , the authority that you now claim to be fallacy. <<<obviously a word you don't understand the meaning of.Then what happens to those that refuse to pay this protection money that you call "tax".[...................................]might be required to accept Islam, pay the jizya, be exiled, or be killed.
So that is by "force". Whereas you have repeatedly told us that" there is obligation to convert and accept Islam".
And you are the one that has point blank on three occasions refused to answer these questions >>>Was Jesus the son of Allah? AND Was it Jesus that died on the cross? Simple yes or no answers will do.No. No.
See wasn't hard was it. Well It is obvious then that you have no intention of accepting what Christian scholars, historians and theologist have to say concerning their beliefs concerning Jesus called the Christ Messiah who's prophet John the Divine gave the last and only unalterable revelation to the world.
After long time of back and forth, unfortunately, I really didn't learn anything new here.
Well that will be because (1) you have wasted much of time attempting to correct your contradictions. (2) swerving questions, {3}Simply denying facts. and [4}continually using Wikipedia for your information and citations which is not always a good idea. i.e anyone can add to and edit Wikipedia.
From Wikipedia
This page is about using Wikipedia as a citation for itself. For critiques of Wikipedia's reliability for readers, see Wikipedia:Why Wikipedia is not so great. For information on citing Wikipedia as a source in an academic setting, see Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia.
After long time of back and forth, unfortunately, I really didn't learn anything new here.
Well if you expected Christians to accept what you have to say about the last perfect unalterable revelation to Muhammad from his god Allah, then you are more naïve as the ignorant Christians that Islam opposes.
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@Best.Korea
With all these violent verses that come from muslim's holy book, can one really be surprised by violence committed by muslims?
Spot on. And that has been my point, BK. It is that fkn vile demented book that causes Muslims to commit such terrible atrocities. And it cannot reform, it cannot be altered or rewritten, according to Muslims it is the last and final "perfect unalterable word of Allah and his prophet".
Isis are Muslims. Their book is the Quran. The Muslims of Isis take their instructions directly from the Quran. Muslims are waging perpetual Jihad because the Quran tells them to do so "until all religion is for Allah". <<< ALL fact.
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@aql_reason
just ask the question rather than going into a spiral of confusion and assumptions.
You are the one that keeps contradicting yourself, sunshine. And you are the one that keeps going around in circles trying to correct said contradictions.
"There are a number of historians who see the rule of the Umayyads as responsible for setting up the "dhimmah" to increase taxes from the dhimmis to benefit the Arab Muslim community financially and to discourage conversion"
And again you are appealing to authority , the authority that you now claim to be fallacy. <<<obviously a word you don't understand the meaning of.
Then what happens to those that refuse to pay this protection money that you call "tax".
Just ask a question.Why don't you fkn answer these questions?You swerved these two questions>>> Was Jesus the son of Allah? AND Was it Jesus that died on the cross?Well idk why you asked those obvious questions? Do Muslims believe that Jesus was the literal son of God? Do Muslims believe Jesus died on the cross
And you are the one that has point blank on three occasions refused to answer these questions >>>Was Jesus the son of Allah? AND Was it Jesus that died on the cross? Simple yes or no answers will do.
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I find it difficult to to feel sorry for her, but I do.
Left-Wing Politician Who Campaigned For Mass Migration Brutally Beaten just yards away from her own front door. by ‘North African’ Men in France
Her latest social media post vehemently criticized the French government for restricting migrant’s entitlement to social welfare handouts.
“While, from our local authorities, we do everything in our power to support families and promote their already difficult access to rights, now the Government and its allies are rolling back these rights with the immigration bill. The shame, the she wrote. Police source told Le Figaro that the men had “their faces hidden behind a surgical mask and hooded” but were “North African” in appearance.
As we previously highlighted, a gang of men armed with knives turned up to a winter dance ball in a small French village and announced “we are here to stab white people,” before wounding 17 and killing a 16-year-old boy.
The incident barely made any international news headlines.
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@FLRW
God loves rich and handsome people,
Well he certainly surrounded himself with enough of them. He had many friends and allies in high places and low places FLRW
but he hates poor and ugly people.
But would use them all the same. These would be the ones from the low places.
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@aql_reason
I said there is no compulsion [in choosing] religion which means those who are not muslims can't be forced to convert to Islam.
Then you are lacking education in your own subject. It is a fact that those that didn't convert to Islam have either been put to the sword or FORCED to pay Jizya if they live in Muslim lands. Which we have already discussed.
But again YOU are appealing to the "Scholars" that you have said to do such a thing is "fallacy".For the last time, you can appeal to scholars (appeal to authority) if what they say makes reasonable sense.
We have covered this too. And I pointed out YOUR "IF" is subjective. HERE> #113 . That is to say, to some it may make sense while to others it doesn't. And YOU have shown this to be the case because you have said yourself that: "Scholars are not unanimous on the punishment for apostasy."#154 So when have undecided scholars that you say we should consult although they are undecided between themselves. and then turned around and called it "fallacy. FFS at least be honest enough to admit that your statement was wrong to begin with.
it happened in the past and it shouldn't happen now. I am stating what the Islamic guidelines for an apostate is
I know what the guidelines are. I have quoted one of those scholars of which there are many.
And of course it shouldn't happen now. Are you saying it doesn't happen now?
The definition of apostate is formally leaving a religion. Do you disagree?
I already ready respoded to that above HERE>> #156
Formal means - Official.
So Wikipedia and the English dictionary are in agreement. Apostasy is the act of giving up your religious beliefs. OR leaving a religion
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I.e OFICIALLY leaving a religion is apostasy and in this case a Muslim officially leaving ISLAM.. Stop playing silly word games.
Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of intentional violence and fear to achieve political or ideological aims (source: wikipedia)
It can be local TERRORIST violence too. FFS! how old are you? England has suffered terrorist attacks carried out by "home grown " Muslim terrorists.
Iran, just today have suffered what they called a "terrorist" attack with two explosions near a cemetery. They don't know yet if they were "home grown" resistance TERRORIST or foreign TERRORISTS.
You swerved these two questions>>> Was Jesus the son of Allah? AND Was it Jesus that died on the cross?
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