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@b9_ntt
Amen!
Amen, indeed. And it wouldn't have been the first time that the people of IS- RA - EL were to invoke the Egyptian Sun god Ra, either.
I may have mentioned to you that in the GnosticGospels of an incident in which Jesus orders his disciples to ‘answerAmen to Me’, and quoting the disciples further “he began tointone a mystical chant, which reads in part;
“Tothe universe belongs to the dancer.’ – ‘Amen’.
‘Hewho does not dance does not know what happens’ – ‘Amen’.
‘Nowyou follow my dance’. – ‘Amen’.
‘ For you could by no means haveunderstood what you suffer’. – ‘Amen’.
And the in the OT we can read the name Amen numerous times. Just to name a few:
Andthe woman shall say, Amen, Amen”. Numbers 5: 22.KJV
And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen and Amen. Psalm 72:19
Then all the people shall say, “Amen” Deuteronomy 27:15
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting Amen and Amen. Psalm 41:13
Ezra praised the Lord, the great God; and all the people lifted their hands and responded, “Amen! Amen!” Nehemiah 8:6
Jesu himself is called the Amen, I revelation, too.
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I had my memory jogged on another thread concerning what Christians call; "The Lord's Prayer". I made the comment that it "Sounds to me very much like a poem from the Egyptian Book of the Dead".
In the New Testament;
"his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taughthis disciples”. Luke 11:1-4
And Jesus goes on to say:
2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
Just as Moses had changed the Egyptian confession in the negative known as a prayer (spell) to Ani from “I have not”, to laws and dictates and reproduced them as commandments of “you shall not” , so too it appears that Jesus did similar with the prayer known to Christians as The Lord's Prayer. And it appears to be part of the same spell offered to the Egyptian scribe Ani. Spell 125. The Lords Prayer ends with the invocation Amen.Matthew 6:13<<<< I wonder of Christians understand that?
The name of these texts asthey were originally known was, The Book of the Going Forth by Day,or Into the Light, which in the secondaddress to Amen was a part of one of these spells and begins as an address on behalf of the dead on his journey through the under world. “OAmen, O Amen, who art in heaven”. Egyptian Gods. Budge. Vol 2 P 19.
And because I am far too bone idle these days to go thumbing through my books, I found this online. Make up your own mind.
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@b9_ntt
The Reverend Tradesecret wrote: It's not my job to convert.
Then as Mathew clearly states: - “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures ".Matthew 22:29
The Reverend Tradesecret, that tells us that he was "chosen by god" must have totally forgotten this verse>
Matthew 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit".
But excuse me if I have this wrong but making followers (disciples) in the name of "Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" sounds very much like "conversion" to the Christian church.
The Reverend Tradesecret wrote: I just want to present the gospel.
😂 "present"? I think the Reverend Tradesecret means preach in the case of the gospel.
This is a religion forum not a pulpit.
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@Skipper_Sr
Skipper_Sr wrote: I do not know your or Thomas' intentions for interacting with me,#1
Eh!? Not intending to turn this into and argument, but it was you set out to "trap" members into interacting with you with the misleading offer of "debate".
Or have you forgotten your own OP, which includes the very misleading words ;
Skipper_Sr wrote: my debates from here on out will be about the Bible or similar content. I created a forum because like the title says, this will be a series of mine with no signs of stopping. [................] Reasons could be: a specific topic for debate, debate alterations, or the like. #1
And although your title actually states - misleadingly again - " I created a forum because like the title says,.... A Series of Biblical Debates, you then immediately tell us:
Skipper_Sr wrote: I am not into debates in which the title is in itself a trap. #1
And press your intentions home with this:
Skipper_Sr wrote: Again, if you are interested and have a specific topic, let me know.#1
Why it is that you seem to have decided to single out myself and Brother D. Thomas when there is also ; b9_ntt , Melcharaz , SkepticalOne, zedvictor4 , hey-yo and Deb-8-a-bull to "deabte" or "interact" with seems just as interesting to me.
Do you have a reason for separating myself and the Brother from the 8 members that have "interacting" with you so far?
I have simply offered to "interact" with you "specifically" on this biblical matter;
Stephen wrote: How about gods failed promise made to the mother of Jesus?#6
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@b9_ntt
Our resident Reverend Tradesecret wrote:Matthew 12:37-45 answers your question.For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.And it tells us that even if a dead person came back that they still would not believe. #30
FM! Talk about misusing a biblical quote.
Why ever these bible ignorant Pastors like the Reverend Tradesecret believe that the story of Jonah in a fish some how proves the resurrection of a dead rotting stinking three day old corpse come back to life simply shows how desperate not to mention how thick they really are.
Because Jonah wasn't fkn dead was he. And neither was Jesus. The bible clearly states that Jonah was alive and praying.
Jonah 2:1 From inside the fish Jonah prayed to the LORD his God.
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@hey-yo
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. Matthew7:7-8Probably the most cruel lie ever to be written.How come you say this is a lie?Here you go.Hm...your comment on matthew is interesting, but God never said He would be like a Gjinn and grant wishes.
Agreed. I am not the highlighting Disneyland wishes. So please stop being so ignorant and patronising.
What I am highlighting are prayers going unanswered .
“the parents believe healing comes from God and that they never expected their daughter to die as they prayed for her and summoned others to do the same”.
A central Wisconsin couple who prayed rather than seeking medical care for their 11-year-old dying daughter were sentenced to six months in jail and 10 years probation in the girl's death. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/oct/07/couple-sentenced-daughter-prayer-death
December 14 2019.
Church attempts resurrection of a dead two year old child, through Prayer
“We have a precedent” said Pastor Bill, “Jesus raised the dead”.
He said “there was no time limit on how much longer the prayers and singing would continue, but added that the child remained at the county coroner's office”.
Interesting that Jesus also commanded any one that followed him to:
“Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give”. Matthew 10:7-8 .
They appear to have done everything by the book too:
“'Since that night, and at the continued request of the Heiligenthal family, Bethel Church has hosted prayer and worship gatherings which consist of singing and prayer,' the church said in a statement”.
Interesting it is that the bible informs its adherents to continue praying! And to “never give up”. Luke 18.
The baby’s funeral was eventually held December22.
What happened here ? “Ye of little faith ”or the wrong faith?
It appears that the only thing “raised” during this whole sad sorry saga was $62,000 (“unforeseen expenses” don’t you know) via a GoFundMe page. I can hear Pastor Bill sermonising Acts 2:45 as I write.
Members of the Followers of Christ Church whose members rely on prayer and had prayed for their sick new born baby instead of taking her to the hospital are charged with murder. “The infant died just hours after she was born”. This couple was expecting twins, one had already died at birth and they prayed to god and Jesus that the other would survive. It didn’t.
“Dale and Shannon HIckman, were convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to six years in prison for the death of their new born infant.”
In all of three cases (and many more) every single religious grieving parent was denied what they asked for in their payers.
Appears prayer is more about expressing faith in God's will instead of wishing for our will.
Is it.? Why would a devout Christian need to pray for faith? Doesn't Jesus know those of his flock that are genuinely faithful and devout?
The story of the biblical Jesus and his failed mission.Uh. And you are refering to other people who claimed to be a messiah & launched rebellions or the expectation jewsish people had during/around the time of Jesus ?
Nope.
Pretty sure there are parts where Jesus claimed he would not act as a war god. "give to ceaser what is ceasar's," or something like that.
You don't know your bible too well do you?
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@Skipper_Sr
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. Matthew7:7-8Probably the most cruel lie ever to be written.How come you say this is a lie?
Here you go.
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@hey-yo
when a man believing himself to be heir to the throne of Jerusalem and king of the Jews and allegedly a descendant of the same bloodline as those of the OT appears out of nowhere at about the age of 30 and causes serious in-fighting between all the other tribal descendants of the same bloodline and other sects and factions that leads to a full scale war with foreign occupiers that results in the total destruction of the very people and the very kingdom that he was allegedly promised he would rule over for ever end ever. But he lost.What the heck are you refering to?
The story of the biblical Jesus and his failed mission.
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@Skipper_Sr
I have decided to have a debate with b9 first on his requested topic concerning the Genealogies of Jesus. Stephen will most likely be next.
You must have missed this.
"If you'd like to discuss this with me I would be happy to discuss the "specifics" here in the open where it may encourage other members to read for themselves if not take part. I think this is better than hiding any discussion from members by holding a private conversation on the matter behind their backs.
That is the idea of a forum".
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@b9_ntt
Tradesecret wrote: What sort of proof would an atheist accept to prove to them that they are wrong?b9_ntt wrote: That's an easy one. A miracle would suffice. Bring my mother back from the dead and I would believe. The Christian god supposedly has the power to do that.
And so were his representatives here on earth. If the bible is to be believed.
Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give. Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give. Heal the sick, raise the dead, cure those with leprosy, and cast out demons.
But don't expect some jumped up self aggrandising Pastor or Priest to rise to your request.
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@ludofl3x
Can you offer any theory as to, if this is the right order in which to read the book, literally every bible ever printed has been printed in the wrong order?
Here's a short cut to save you the trouble.
Regardless of the story that some jumped up bullshitting Pastor or Chaplain such as our resident Reverend Tradsecret may want to push onto you;
the OT is a story about one single bloodlines wars and conquest at the behest of a god. They lost. It all ended in disaster and captivity for said bloodline until some other foreign conqueror released them from their captivity.
Then we have a giant leap of some 500 years;
when a man believing himself to be heir to the throne of Jerusalem and king of the Jews and allegedly a descendant of the same bloodline as those of the OT appears out of nowhere at about the age of 30 and causes serious in-fighting between all the other tribal descendants of the same bloodline and other sects and factions that leads to a full scale war with foreign occupiers that results in the total destruction of the very people and the very kingdom that he was allegedly promised he would rule over for ever end ever. But he lost.
And then he dies.
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@hey-yo
So before even opening this book, we must believe in Jesus?seek
Before or after opening the bible?
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Abram – Abraham.
Abram,the bible states ingenesis was 75 years old andhis wife Sarai saidto be some 10 years younger and “barren” whenthey were told to leave Mesopotamia. (Allbible characters before this time were of Mesopotamian origin). Theywere ata later stage in the story also commanded to change their names which is a common themethroughout the bible stories. Andno reason for this is ever given.
Aftera long time travelling across the wilderness Abramnow Abraham & Sarai now named Sarah and still barren andobviously much older somehow end up in Egypt.
Andthen this happens:
Genesis12:
11Ashe was about to enter Egypt, he said to his wife Sarai,“I know whata beautiful woman you are.12When the Egyptians see you, theywill say, ‘This is his wife.’ Then they will kill me but will letyou live.
13Sayyou are my sister, so that I will be treated well for your sake andmy life will be spared because of you.”14 When Abram came toEgypt, the Egyptians saw that Sarai was a very beautiful woman.
15Andwhen Pharaoh’s officials saw her, they praised her to Pharaoh, andshe was taken into his palace.16 He treated Abram well for hersake, and Abram acquired sheep and cattle, male and female donkeys,male and female servants, and camels.
17Butthe Lord inflictedserious diseases on Pharaoh and his household because of Abram’swife Sarai. 18So Pharaoh summoned Abram. “What have you doneto me?” he said. “Why didn’t you tell me she was your wife?
19 Why did you say, ‘She is my sister,’ so that I took her to bemy wife? Now then, here is your wife. Take her and go!”20ThenPharaoh gave orders about Abram to his men, and they sent him on hisway, with his wife and everything he had.
Seriously,wtf!
Letsbreak it down.
11[Abram] he said to his wife Sarai, “I know what a beautiful woman you are”.
Weare talking here of woman over sixty and unable to have children.
12[Abram]Whenthe Egyptians see you, they will say, ‘This is his wife.’
Maybethat is because she is his wife!
12[Abram] “Then they will kill me but will let you live”.
Whydoes he believe this?
13[Abram]“Say you are my sister, so that I will be treated well for yoursake and my life will be spared because of you.”
Whywould he have to lie? What makes him believe that she will be treatedany better than him?
14 When Abram came to Egypt, the Egyptians saw that Sarai was a verybeautiful woman.
Ican only suggest that the Egyptians must have had the burning desertsun in their eyes.
15Andwhen Pharaoh’s officials saw her, they praised her to Pharaoh, andshe was taken into his palace.16 He treated Abram well for hersake, and Abram acquired sheep and cattle, male and female donkeys,male and female servants, and camels.
Thatthe plan to deceive the generous and benevolent Pharaoh seems to begoing swimmingly.
17Butthe Lord inflictedserious diseases on Pharaoh and his household because of Abram’swife Sarai.
“Becauseof Abram’s wife Sarai”!? Had she given Pharaoh a dose of thedesert clap? There is no explanation given as to how it wasdiscovered that Sari was not Abram’s sister but his wife.
Andwhy should Pharaoh surfer for the lies of this pair?
18SoPharaoh summoned Abram. “What have you done to me?” he said. “Whydidn’t you tell me she was your wife?
Ican answer that one for you Pharaoh, she was his sister and wife(custom you see) The only part that Abram and Sarai forgot to mentionwas that they were married.
19 [ Pharaoh] Whydid you say, ‘She is my sister,’ so that I took her to be my wife?
Yep.They were trying to infiltrate the Egyptian Royal family, is my guessand it wouldn’t be for the first time, Pharaoh.
[ Pharaoh] Now then, here is your wife. Take her andgo!”20Then Pharaoh gave orders about Abram to his men, andthey sent him on his way, with his wife and everything he had.
Interestingthat Pharaoh let them both leave alive and with all the gifts (booty) that he hadbestowed on this deceitful couple. We never get to hear how Pharaohgot on with his pox that appears to have been passed on by the“barren” Sarai.
It was some time after and under their new names that they pulled this stunt again.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
but still struggling trying to click all the boxes with a bus in it.
Balls, Deb. Try the bowling balls.
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Let's hope Sleepy 'sniffin' Joe can keep his composure as Trump did during the Iranian attacks on ships in the gulf.
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@Castin
@Deb-8-a-bull
Castin wrote:And I demand to know who is above me as 1st and 2nd worst in this hypothetical religious group and how they beat me out in the leaderboard of Bad Religiosity.#43Deb-8-a-bull wrote:Stephen FULL STOPHis the epitome of peoples you don't want in ya religious group.#45
I do at times here, feel like a Lion in a den full of Daniels, Deb.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Deb's post:
Great post Deb. If I get your meaning, this appears to be another Burden of Proof challenge.
As does this one>.. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/9053-proving-atheists-wrong
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@Skipper_Sr
Stephen Wrote: How about gods failed promise made to the mother of Jesus?Let's PM to discuss specifics and go more in-depth.#9
You seem to be laying down ground rules since setting your "trap".
Still, It's not a deep or difficult question. In fact it is very simple, that is, if you know your bible, god failed to keep his promise made to the mother of his son.
If you'd like to discuss this with me I would be happy to discuss the "specifics" here in the open where it may encourage other members to read for themselves if not take part. I think this is better than hiding any discussion from members by holding a private conversation on the matter behind their backs.
That is the idea of a forum.
Specifics
God said to the mother of his son:
"He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David”.
This didn't happen.
The floor is yours.
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@ Melcharaz,Wrote:
before all things, there must be the right attitude and spirit. Those that read God's word must first “Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.”
So before even opening this book, we must believe in Jesus?
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@Best.Korea
If you have only little time to read, I suggest you read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. These are the most important parts of the Bible.
Why are they important?
Our Father in heaven,hallowed be your name,your kingdom come,your will be done,on earth as it is in heaven.Give us today our daily bread.And forgive us our debts,as we also have forgiven our debtors.And lead us not into temptation,but deliver us from the evil one.
Sounds to me very much like a poem from the Egyptian Book of the Dead.
Dont forget about prayer.
Prayer as in:
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. Matthew7:7-8
Probably the most cruel lie ever to be written.
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@Skipper_Sr
How about gods failed promise made to the mother of Jesus?
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@WeaverofFate
I was speaking of inviting any one of those you intended to debate. But never mind.
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@zedvictor4
Though if you are not wishing to imply the existence of an actual GOD or a certain GOD, then definitively speaking you are an atheist similar to myself.
A very good point, Vic, lad.
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@WeaverofFate
Debate is canceled
That is a shame. Maybe you could invite Atheist Edge to take part in a discussion here on the DebateArt forum?
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@YouFound_Lxam
Let me say once and once only, that this is only for the argument of their being a God [............]
What's his name ?
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@b9_ntt
Trump
Which has absolutely nothing to do with this thread concerning the biblical Moses, thankfully.
You may find this interesting?
The Genius Of The Few
by Christian and Barbara Joy O'Brien
by Christian and Barbara Joy O'Brien
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@b9_ntt
You've given me a lot to study now. I want to integrate it with what I thought I knew about this topic. Thank you.
You are more than welcome.
There is always more to know for those that are interested. An open mind will always outdo a indoctrinated closed mind.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Seriously, do you actually think that WeaverofFate could get through the onslaught of an astute Atheist that brings up the propositions that I have shown in the following link?
No, Brother D, I do not. I believe this thread is about everything but any future debate that the OP claims to be taking part in.
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@WeaverofFate
I will be featured on a live debate channel (likely) in two weeks. The topic is creationism vs Marco evolution. Can any theists give me studies, points, or books for creation so I can integrate them into my argument? Can any atheists give me points and studies that may be used against me?
Which debate channel?
What side of the argument will you be taking?
Why would you be taking part in a debate that you give the impression of not to know anything about?
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@b9_ntt
Contiuing from above.
Stephen wrote:
So did Akhenaten (Moses) have a brother? As shown above. When he went by the name of Amenhotep the records show that he had indeed a “dead” elder brother, i.e. first born named Tuthmoses that seemingly just disappears off the face of the earth while at the same time it cannot go un-noticed that the person we are now calling Moses seems to have gained a brother completely out of thin air! Exodus 4:14. Aaron!
Aaron! The bible scribes are seemingly expecting the reader to know he was there all the time yet not a single person mentions the name and there certainly isn't any mention of a “brother” apart from his “dead” brother. Had this "dead" brother simply been in the background under his Egyptian name; Smenkhkare? And was he the "dead" brother?#23
Well looking over this thread you wouldn’t have missed that records show that the two birth names of these brothers Smenkhkare (first born) and Akhenaten (second born) had both started off Egyptian names.#23
The disappearing first born was named Tuthmoses #16 and the second born (Moses) began with the name Amenhotep (Amen is Pleased) #16 .
As is usual, it’s all in the name, (or should that be “bloodline”?) and I appreciate that this may be a little complicated and confusing for some:
but to realise what links them as brothers in the biblical sense we have to look at their upbringing under their Egyptian names? We know from records that Amenhotep -Akhenaten (Moses)was trained and educated by the priests of On (The House of Light) in Heliopolis and coincidently so was (Tuthmoses) Smenkhkare. And like “Moses”, in infancy he too was raised (wet nursed) by a Levite women named Tey - remember her? And astonishingly, he is also recorded as being the grandson of Ysuf-Yuya, i.e. Joseph who became “father to Pharaoh”.
Not wishing to bog this topic down in the myriad of names surrounding just these two for too much longer I will simply finish here on how (Tuthmoses) Smenkhkare became the biblical Aaron. With just a few added notes.
After Akhenaten(Moses) abdicated Smenkhkare became Pharaoh so was now titled Smenkh-ka-ra (Vigourous is the Soul of Ra).
Both were educated at the house of On there- by, in the case of Pharaoh, he now become known as
Smenkh-ka-ra-On, from the phonetic ending which derives ‘Aaron’.
And they were both Aten worshippers.
Aten was the equivalent of the Hebrew Adon a title familiar with ‘Adonai’ (My Lord).
There have been many more new discoveries from those ancient lands in my own life time.
To me it all appears to have been a long game infiltration plan that went belly up and started by the Mesopotamian Abram who also suffered a name change to the biblical Abraham.
And that, as the say, is that.
All good stuff for those that are interested, eh, b9_ntt?
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Stephen knocks on your church door . Everyone quite shhhhhh. The whole congregation dare not make a sound .Knock, knoc, knock.He finally goes away.
Don't be so sure Deb, lad.
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@b9_ntt
As you may already know, it was the changes made by Akhenaten/ Moses from polytheism to monotheism that has caused many scholars and other schools of thought to believe that Akhenaten and the biblical Moses are one and the same and this is probably the reason Akhenaten is sometimes called the world’s first monotheist. But to the priests of Amen he was a heretic or “dead”.
Under his reign there was no tolerance of any other god’s or religious practices. He built a city dedicated to the Aten and allowed anyone that accepted his new one god religion to live in this new ‘promised land’. Sounds familiar doesn’t it?
Indeed many Hebrew and Egyptian accepted the invitation to follow him into this new world of one god in Armana. Of course the priests weren’t happy with the situation and anyone that had discarded and forsaken the old gods for the new were referred to as “lepers”, “cripples” and in the case of the priests that sided with Akhenaten they were “dead”. Of course this simply means they were social "cripples and or lepers" and in the case of the Egyptian priests however, they were “dead” or “ had died” which simply meant excommunicated. All sounding very New Testament in my opinion with Lazarus, Ananias and his wife Sapphira being two good examples of being “dead”.
I will have pick up on the Bible verse that you raised here.
b9_nttwrote: He learned of an Egyptian plot to kill him, so Moses fled to Midian(the Bible relates that he fled because he killed an Egyptian who was beating a Hebrew). #15
In my own opinion I find it highly unlikely that Pharaoh would exile Moses, a Prince of Egypt (Exodus2:11) for killing what we are led to believe was just a common Egyptian taskmaster whipping a Hebrew “slave”, unless of course this happened to be a special Egyptian.
You will remember from above that I wrote: “It was however decreed that no son born of this couple could ever inherit the throne. One of the reasons given is that Tiye was not a legitimate heiress and could not represent the state god Amen and would never be considered a legitimate heiress and it was for this reason the priests of On ordered the palace midwives to smother any male child that born to Tiye. It is said her first born son called Tuthmoses did ‘die’ but it is never explains how old he died, how he died or where he was buried. #16
It wouldn’t be the first time that this kind of decree was issued against Israelites in the land of Egypt. We only have to look at the bible: Exodus 1:15-22, which is strange story altogether. We have Hebrew midwives – foreigners- blatantly disobeying Pharaoh’s own decrees and in his own land. Being brought before Pharaoh and no mention of punishment. We know they weren’t executed for this treason or anything else. In fact “the lord”, the bible says gave them families of their own as reward! Sound like a good old-fashioned backhander to me.
So did Akhenaten (Moses) have a brother? As shown above. When he went by the name of Amenhotep the records show that he had indeed a “dead” elder brother, i.e. first born named Tuthmoses that seemingly just disappears off the face of the earth while at the same time it cannot go un-noticed that the person we are now calling Moses seems to have gained a brother completely out of thin air! Exodus 4:14. Aaron!
Aaron! The bible scribes are seemingly expecting the reader to know he was there all the time yet not a single person mentions the name and there certainly isn't any mention of a “brother” apart from his “dead” brother. Had this "dead" brother simply been in the background under his Egyptian name; Smenkhkare? And was he the "dead" brother?
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@b9_ntt
You’ll understand some of these ideas will be references from scholars while others are my own deductions and theories. I am too bone idle to list all references or point out my own. Plus I have found it much less complicated and a more simplistic way of explaining what can be a complex and difficult to follow story for many.
We will recall the Genesis verse 10“Whenthe child grew older, she took him to Pharaoh’s daughter and he became her son. She named him Moses, saying, “I drew him out of the water.”
It cannot be missed that suddenly, Moses now has seemingly grown from infant and is now an adult!?
What happened in the missing years?
As it stands it is also hard to miss that this is reminiscent of the New Testament tale of Jesus and his “cousin” John the Baptist. Both are born, go into exile and reappear as fully grown adults. And incidentally, one of these infants just happens to have been sent into exile in Egypt! Is it any surprise then that Jesus wants to be called and is also know as The Amen?
Or is this just yet another retelling of old Mesopotamian/Egyptian/Old Testament epics now written by the authors of the four New Testament Gospels.? (I do have my own theory as to why these stories are repeated and or re-enacted.)
And in the case Moses, it seems very odd that no one, not even her father Pharaoh- asks the royal Princess, “where the fk did he come from”? No, what we get from the bible story is this giant leap in time from infant to a full grown murderer;
“One day, after Moses had grown up, he went out to where his own people were and watched them at their hard labor. He saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his own people. Looking this way and that and seeing no one, he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand”. Exodus2:11-12
Again, it cannot be missed that this is a OT retelling of Cain supposedly “killing” his (half) brother Able and burying him in the ground in Genesis 4:9-10.
Regardless. Amenhotep( Amen is Pleased) to Akhenaten to Moses. How did he become Moses? Maybe this will go some way explaining the missing years of the biblical Moses
Tiye’s son Amenhotep as explained by Manetho (in the case of the biblical Moses) was educated in Heliopolis. By this time his mother had become more influential than the senior queen, Sitamun who it is believed had never given birth to a son and heir to Pharaoh only a daughter, Nefertiti.
Pharaoh Amenhotep III, the records tell us, became extremely ill and because there was no direct male heir to the royal house it was up to Tiye’s son the young Amenhotep to marry his half sister Nefertiti thereby ruling as co-regent, Amenhotep IV. Although this marriage proved to be the saviour of the 18 dynasty when his father died it was at this point that Amenhotep (Akhenaten)began to have thoughts of his own. Maybe it was because of his early Israelite upbringing but the young Pharaoh couldn’t accept the idea of the many deities worshipped by the Egyptians?
But he began to re-develop the idea of the Aten, a god of no image that was omnipotent and represented by the solar disc. (I say re-develop because the idea of the Aten wasn’t exclusive to Amenhotep (Akhenaten)that is to say The Aten wasn’t his brainchild, and evidence for this comes from even before Amenhotep’s (Akhenatan’s)birth. His father Pharaoh Amenhotep III it is said owned a boat on the lake at Zara and was called Tehen Aten (Aten Gleams).
Problem was that Aten was not the sun god – Ra was. And it was this that would put him on a collision course with the priests of Ra, the very priests that had educated and trained him in Heliopolis.
The Israelite idea of a god without image was already established in Egypt before Amenhotep’s(Akhenatan’s) took the throne. It was what he did different that was to cause all the problems. He installed the Aten not just as the State god who had been Amen, but the only god of Egypt. He closed all temples of Egyptian gods and changed his name to Akhenaten ( glorious spirit of The Aten. He had to go.
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@Best.Korea
I do, yes. Is it different to the hard copy?
😂
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@Best.Korea
Of course, normally I would recommend buying the Bible and reading it, but since you are unwilling to read you might be willing to listen to it instead.
Listen to who?
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@b9_ntt
This is fascinating stuff.
I believe so. I shall have another post ready mid morning..hopefully.
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@IlDiavolo
A couple of months before my grandmom would die, me and others dreamt about it. It's like grandmom knew she was going to die and warn us about it.
Have you considered that being a granny that is all she though about most of the time in her old age? Or that she was keeping a terminal illness from you all not wanting you to fuss and worry?
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@Best.Korea
Well I wouldn't kill my children simply because they disagreed with me, for a start.Is a false statement. The atheists are famous for killing children for dumbest reasons possible. Its called an abortion. Your people have created an entire industry from killing children on a mass scale.
And you are dumb enough to believe that Christians do not use contraception. And there are probably just as many church going Christians, bible bashing pastors and priests that actually have murdered their own children after they have been born.
And what was the first thing Moses did when he came down from the top of the fkn mountain , you clown. He had thousands of his own people murdered and their heads stuck on spikes, and you talk about fkn morals.Is a very misleading statement. Have you read why he did it? No?
Yes I read it. I wouldn't have been able to quote it to you otherwise, thicko.
I don't need a book to tell me what is wright and wrong.Is a blatant lie.
Nope.
While I can admit there are some "morals" that have allegedly been handed down from scripture that I can appreciate.You dare to say "some morals"?
I do.
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@Best.Korea
Theist do not have the monopoly on morals, as much as you like to believe that they have.What kind of morals do you think you have? You have none. At best, you could copy the Bible's morality, which would be embarassing since then you would openly admit the superiority of the Bible's thought compared to your thought.
Well I wouldn't kill my children simply because they disagreed with me, for a start.
Our God defined the entire morality in one sentence: Thou shall not kill.
And what was the first thing Moses did when he came down from the top of the fkn mountain , you clown. He had thousands of his own people murdered and their heads stuck on spikes, and you talk about fkn morals. FK off 🤣🤣
My little atheist buddy, can you even compete?Can you invent a better morality, or at least an equally good one? You cannot. It will be funny to see you try tho.
I don't need a book to tell me what is wright and wrong. While I can admit there are some "morals" that have allegedly been handed down from scripture that I can appreciate.
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@b9_ntt
I mentioned above #7 the breaking of a taboo by Enki and the resulting outcome of “two foundlings”:
“among the bulrushes, in reed baskets have I them found. Ninki to the foundlings a likening took, as her own children she raised them. Adapa she called the foundling boy, the girl she called Titi”.
Also mentioned above,#7 this can be seen to be the prototype for the biblical story the Adam and Eve account in the bible. But is it also the template for the Moses story? On the face of the biblical account we would have to say no. Simply because the biblical story doesn’t mention another sibling. Unless of course, Moses did have a full blood Egyptian sibling that the bible scribes omitted to mention?
Was this the case? Well to find the answer to some of these questions, I can pick up on some of the points that you have highlighted above, i.e. Yuya and his wife was Tuya. These two were much more than just “ministers” to Pharaoh Tuthmosis IV and for his son Amenhotep III in respect that (1) they were both buried in the Valley of Kings and(2) in the case of Yuya’s funerary papyrus he is referred to as The Holy Father of the Lord of the Two Lands, which is just as the bible relates at Genesis 45:8:
“So then, it was not you who sent me here, but God. He made me father to Pharaoh, lord of his entire household and ruler of all Egypt”.
So just on this information alone it is enough to convince me at least that we are speaking of Yuya of Egypt and the biblical Joseph the Hebrew are one and the same person. Not only was Yuya of royal significance, but his wife Tuya was also, if not more so.
Wewill recall from above that Pharaoh had given Joseph/Yuya as a wife Asenath, the daughter of Poti-Pherah priest of On. Genesis41:45
But as you point out above the offspring of this couple namely to their daughter, Tiye. But it should first be explained how it came about.
When Tuthmosis died records show that his son Amenhotep married his infantsister Sitamun – Daughter of the Great King,(which would be Tuthmosis IV) so he could inherit the throne. Very soon after this union in order to have an adult wife he also married Tiye a halfbreed Egyptian/Israelite daughter of Joseph/Yuya and Asenath.
It was however decreed that no son born of this couple could ever inherit the throne. One of the reasons given is that Tiye was not a legitimate heiress and could not represent the state god Amen and would never be considered a legitimate heiress and it was for this reason the priests of On ordered the palace midwives to smother any male child that born to Tiye.It is said her first son called Tuthmoses did ‘die’ but it is never explain how he died or where he was buried.
You can just feel the conflict bubbling under the surface.
Regardless, Tiye did become pregnant again but this time she squirrelled herself away living with her Israelite relatives in Goshen where she gave birth to another boy and where it was arranged for the child to be taken care of and nursed by Tiye’s brothers wife Teythat happened to be a daughter of the house of Levi.
Iam sure that any reader of the bible couldn’t fail to notice that this is reminiscent of biblical story of Moses. Exodus 2:1-10
The bible story starts with “a woman of the house of Levi”
“ThenPharaoh’s daughter went down to the Nile to bathe, and her attendants were walking along the riverbank. She saw the basket among the reeds and sent her female slave to get it. She opened it and saw the baby. He was crying, and she felt sorry for him. “This is one of the Hebrew babies,” she said.
Thenhis sister asked Pharaoh’s daughter, “Shall I go and get one of the Hebrew women to nurse the baby for you?”
“Yes, go,” she answered. So the girl went and got the baby’s mother.Pharaoh’s daughter said to her, “Take this baby and nurse him for me, and I will pay you.” So the woman took the baby and nursed him. When the child grew older, she took him to Pharaoh’s daughter and he became her son. She named him Moses, saying, “I drew him out of the water.”
But of course in truth we know that Tiye had named her son Amenhotep.
So how do we get from a child with the Egyptian name Amenhotep to a supposedly full blood Israelite child called Moses?
The quick route could be to simply state that:
Egyptian Pharaoh Amenhotep III the father of:-
Aminadab;( which is the Hebrew equivalent of the Egyptian name)-
Amenhotep; (went on to become)-
Akhenaten;(who we today know as)- the biblical Moses.
Might be worth look at Akhenaten when I have more time.
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@Best.Korea
What atheists need to understand is that those babies would grow up to be horrible people.FFS. What an absolutely disgusting thing to say. Do you actually believe that statements like that will go anywhere in justifying your gods actions?What an absolutely disgusting thing to say. Atheists are now disgusted by the truth.
NO. I am disgusted by many things about that comment.
That is not a surprise, as they have no morality.
Theist do not have the monopoly on morals, as much as you like to believe that they have.
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@Greyparrot
Its a sure case of attack the messenger- Carlson.
The Police officer that got fired should be suing the city. imo
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@Best.Korea
What atheists need to understand is that those babies would grow up to be horrible people.
FFS. What an absolutely disgusting thing to say. Do you actually believe that statements like that will go anywhere in justifying your gods actions?
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@Greyparrot
Q Anon Shaman pushes for a mistrial.
Am I correct in saying this guy was more or less given a grand tour by the police and ended up thanking them for "allowing him in"?
And isn't he in prison now?
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@Elliott
Elliott wrote: I would like to see all faith schools abolished.So would I. But how would you go about it?Firstly there should be a policy that insures all schools are inclusive and open to students of all faiths. Getting children from different beliefs, faiths and ethnic backgrounds to mix would go a long way to encouraging integration.
But isn't it obvious to you that you would have to do this forcefully by law. And probably against the will of the larger UK Muslim population?
Then introduce a secular national curriculum where religion is only taught within the context of history.
That would be more difficult in my opinion without mentioning that this "history" would be about religion. And you would still have the problem of what the Muslim version of their history is and how they wish it to be taught. Their "history" is , Islam.
Stephen wrote: Have you ever heard this BBC pinup boy, Medhi Hasan? Has was the "go _ to" Muslim when ever the issue of Islam /Muslims hit the head lines. he is always referred to as a ' moderate Muslim'. I think it was Dr David Starkey that put him back in his box and exposed him for what he really is on BBC's Question Time. I believe Hasan works for Al-Jazeera now?On non Muslims living like animalsElliott wrote: Regarding the video and Medhi Hasan, we all know these extremists exist, they are a menace and they are the ones that get all the media attention.
But my point is that in the case of the likes of Mehdi Hasan, he is regarded as a respectful "moderate Muslim" by media and government alike. Or was until Historian Dr David Starkey exposed him for what he is.
I don't know if you watched the Question time exchange he had with Dr Starkey but the usual suspects - Anna Soubry being one - tried to close Starkey down.
There is another "respectable moderate Muslim" know to us named Maajid Nawaz. He is a self confessed "radical" terrorist recruiter for the Islamic terror group Hizb ut-Tahrir . He served 5 years in an Egyptian prison for "terrorist related" crimes. His lawyer just happened to be London Mayor Sadiq Khan. Not long after his release Maajid Nawaz was rewarded with a lucrative position as a radio presenter for LBC radio. My point is that there are many "respectful moderate Muslims" that have secured themselves very high positions in British society, and I personally find that concerning.
The majority of Muslims in this country who simply get on with their lives and cause no problems are not newsworthy.
They are. But when polled on certain issues it was found that the majority agreed that our country should be ruled by Sharia. And agreed with terrorist extremists, which is something else I find concerning.
This is Maajid Nawaz admitting (bragging) to the Oxford Union to being a terrorist recruiter. Something he now attempts to deny when ever his own claims are brought up. In the same speech he attempts to make himself out to be a victim!
Listen to the first 3-4 minutes of his Oxford union address.
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@Best.Korea
Bible, being the only valid word of God known to humans
What about the Quran. To Muslims that too is the only valid the word of god, and there are other religions that have their own book.
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@RationalMadman
God is Satan. God is the Devil.Jesus is Lucifer. They are interlinked and at times Satan/God possesses Jesus/Lucifer especially when Lucifer has become Jesus. This is why when Jesus keeps trying to explain his father or the devil, his logic in what he is saying is completely nonsensical even in the original Hebrew. It's like his mind is being hijacked.
If I have this correct then?
So God is Satan and Jesus. And Jesus possessed himself.
My, he is some serious mixed up individual.
So "get the behind me Satan" was Jesus attempting to exorcism himself. But "can Satan cast out Satan? If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand" ?Matthew 12:26
God/ Satan likes to jump around a bit too . He entered Judas and Simon Peter too.
And Matthew 4:1-11 is a complete load of old bollocks. Why would Jesus go to meet himself in the wilderness? And to be tested by himself too?
4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”
Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,
‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ”
Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’ ”
Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”
Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”
Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
1. JESUS' INSPIRED WORDS AS GOD STATED: "Happy the man who shall seize and smash your little ones against the rock!" (Psalms 137:9)2. JESUS AS GOD STATED: “Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.” (Isaiah 13:16)3. JESUS AS GOD STATED: “Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.” (Hosea 13:16)4. JESUS AS GOD STATED: "Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey." (1 Samuel 15:3)5. JESUS AS GOD STATED: "So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them." (Genesis 6:7)6. JESUS AS GOD STATED: The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children. (Hosea 9:11-16)
Certainly no punches pulled by god /Jesus there Brother.D. But one can suppose after wiping everything from the face of the earth once before, a few more innocent babies didn't matter.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Taking clips of what I say and ignoring the rest.
You are the one continually contradicting the BIBLE! and YOURSELF!
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@b9_ntt
I will cover more of your post as a when I feel it appropriate to the theme of the topic.
But this is part of your post is interesting;
He learned of an Egyptian plot to kill him, so Moses fled to Midian (the Bible relates that he fled because he killed an Egyptian who was beating a Hebrew).
I have good reason to believe that Moses had indeed murdered an Egyptian, his half brother and rightful heir to the throne. Which, coincidently, happens to be a running theme in the bible stories.
I hope to get to that when time allows. Although the internet is extremely helpful for short cuts, I still have to keep referencing my books if I cannot remember certain names, times, and places, out of habit. I like to hold what I am reading and studying..
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