Stephen

#462

I'm a giant face in the sky kinda guy.  

When a dude appears real big in the sky and says shit to me . This will be my proof of a god things existence.

Are you still maintaining that Nicodemus & Joseph of Arimathea were not secret disciples of Jesus? As you have stated here> #56

Nicodemus met with Jesus at night. this is not in dispute. He certainly was in the first place wary of meeting with Jesus. but the question is whether this was a once off and whether it continued into the future.  

I do not think we can so sure that by the time of the trial of Jesus that either were disciples of Jesus.

And even if they were - there is no indication that this is secret. I can't think of any particular place - although I am sure you will remind me - that they are called disciples.   

I also think that their relationship with Jesus was known amongst the Sanhedrin.

I also think that their relationship with Jesus was known amongst the Sanhedrin.  this is one of the reason -

I think that they were not invited to some of the more dubious meetings - and perhaps illegal meetings. 

I certainly maintain as before that I don't recall either of them being in these kangaroo courts.  

I don't recall saying that the kangaroo court was not dealing with a capital crime.

- to find a reason to put Jesus to death. 

Stephen wrote: 

So we have accusations  ranging from lying, blasphemy, many things, sedition against Rome and just being a criminal. And also according to Mark 15:10 we can add pure envy if envy too was a crime, “For he knew that the chief priests had delivered him for envy”.#51

Curse that very day a "religion " appeared whilst there was already a religion. 

Ok.  well since it is your speculation.  I am happy to see what you have to add.  

Tradedsecret wrote: "I am not sure that Nicodemus was a secret disciple.  He wasn't invited along to the kangaroo court because his views were probably well known to the other members of the Sanhedrin.  If not, why wasn't he there?  The same applies to Joseph of Arimathea".#56

Tradedsecret wrote: Neither of these gentlemen were there. #56

Look i am just going to continue and wait for A what appears to me as a god like thing to pop up near me so i can ask it what group to be in. 

Yes these guys are highly respected. That is Not a reason to suspect them of high treason. 

The rest of whatever you say just simply bears witness that all you have is speculation based on conspiracy. 

speculation

Imagine your religion being whatever The church down the road is. 

Do you think you could correctly know what exact type of Christian people on this site are ?

Apart from your notion that it was a capital offence. - I am sure that even ruling members of the council could make excuses not to be there. holidays - wives having babies - sickness.  emergency councils when members were visiting other parts of the country.. 

  

 Very lame for such and educated person as yourself. But if that is all you have as a rebuttal, then you have nothing imo.

I guess that is your "gotcha this time" move - or distraction at the least - telling us you don't have any specific evidence from the Bible telling us that both / or either of Nicodemus or Joseph was there.  

Where is your evidence that these two must have been there under threat of capital punishment?

Do you not have any idea at all as to who these "certain" accusers were, Tradesecret?

I have never given it much thought -

So I am content to say "I don't know who it was" but I am confident of who it wasn't.  It wasn't Nicodemus and it wasn't Joseph of Arimathea. 

 I also highly doubt it was any of Jesus' disciples,

And I also highly doubt it was any of Jesus' disciples, including Judas Iscariot. 

You're not particularly new here, and by now, it should be clear that insults in general are off-limits.

What did we expect from a 2nd class woman, other than what she has shown us: "The woman Folly is loud; she is seductive and knows nothing.” (Proverbs 9:13)

Apart from your notion that it was a capital offence. - I am sure that even ruling members of the council could make excuses not to be there. holidays - wives having babies - sickness.  emergency councils when members were visiting other parts of the country.. 

We thank you for lowering the boom upon Shila for actually making such a "smutty" post to me, especially in a Religion Forum! Don't worry, Jesus, as Yahweh God incarnate, saw what Shila did, and she will pay for it upon Judgment Day for sure, praise!

Shila wrote: #415

BrotherD. , I noticed you have a very misshapen mouth. It is shaped like someone who uses the Bible to get blowjobs.

 Their names are not recorded because they were not valid witnesses, not witnesses protection, not because they were members of his own discipleship.https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8152-the-story-of-the-certain-witnesses?page=2&post_number=45

We know of a least two disciples that the bible says entered the court yard where the trial was taking taking place. We also know that Nicodemus was not only a secret disciple of Jesus but also a member of Sanhedrin as was Joseph of Arimathea. 

And ?????

I am not sure that Nicodemus was a secret disciple.  

He wasn't invited along to the kangaroo court because his views were probably well known to the other members of the Sanhedrin.

 If not, why wasn't he [Nicodemus] there?

 The same applies to Joseph of Arimathea.

 Two well known advocates of Jesus and both part of the council and yet both conveniently left of the invite list to the party.

  It could be they were hiding. It could be the Sanhedrin didn't want any opposition. Very often corrupt councils gather together in a forum to get what they want. It is not unusual as pathetic as it is. 

Neither of these gentlemen were there. otherwise there would have been or might have been a different result. 

 Well that would be a nasty little conspiracy wouldn't it?

Sidewalker, the equal Bible fool to Shila,

YOUR COMPLETE BIBLE STUPIDITY  SHOWN TO THE MEMBERSHIP ONCE AGAIN. LOL!!!: "Deuteronomy was written somewhere between 700 and 1400 years before Jesus was born dumbass."

Listen up bible fool, I see you need another Bible Slapping you Silly®️again!  It matters NOT when Jesus was born you ignorant fool, because He was the God of the Old Testament, HELLO? Anybody home today, NOT!  He still remains the one God (1 Timothy 2:5), and the following Bible axioms make Jesus the God of the Old Testament, understood Bible fool!!! 

JESUS SAID: "If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me."  (John 5:46)

JESUS SAID: “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” (John 8:58)

Paul portrays Jesus as that God that led Israel out of Egypt to the Promised Land!!!! “For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.  They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.  They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.” (1 Corinthians 10:1-4)

Sidewalker, once again, to save you from further embarrassment, and for Christ's sake, take yourself to a Children's Religion Forum where you will be able to pull the wool ever their equal bible stupidity like yours, understood? Huh? Maybe?  Now, run along like a good little boy that has been SCHOOLED AGAIN!

NEXT BIBLE STUPID FOOL LIKE "SIDEWALKER" THAT DOESN’T KNOW HIS ASS FROM A WILD GRAPE RELATIVE TO JESUS BEING THE GOD OF THE OLD TESTAMENT, WILL BE …?  LOL!

Stephen,

YOUR REVEALING QUOTE IN POST #393 OF THE OUTRIGHT UNGODLY "MISS TRADESECRET" IN NOT FOLLOWING 1 TIMOTHY 2:11-14:  "Where for instance, would a female posing as a Pastor with a congregation of hundreds stand in the eyes of your god?"

ABSOLUTELY NOT!  As is explicitly shown if you are talking about the minion of Satan, Miss Tradesecret, then she is a WOMAN: https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB0WX8  therefore  Miss Tradesecret is NOT, and I repeat, is NOT to teach or to exercise the authority over the man, and that includes the Bible fool Shila in bringing forth this thread, but they are to remain QUIET!  Therefore they are going directly against Jesus' inspired passage as woman shown explicitly below:

"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." (1 Timothy 2:11-14)

As you have said before,  just imagine all of those kool aide drinking people that Miss Tradesecret is ungodly teaching, where it is the blind leading the blind scenario, and where her other attributes are as ungodly as well, which is outright BLAPSEHEME to Jesus!  

" Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." (1 Timothy 2:11-14)

I am sure that you to have noticed the decline in even Miss Tradesecrets overall Bible "assumed" knowledge in the current past.

Their testimony at its height might have pointed to rebellion if it was talking about destroying Herod's temple. Rebellion and vandalism or destruction of property were in the same vein.

 Their names are not recorded because they were not valid witnesses, not witnesses protection, not because they were members of his own discipleship.https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8152-the-story-of-the-certain-witnesses?page=2&post_number=45

You wasted over a dozen posts labelling them false witnesses

You accept my conclusion the two false witnesses were not false witnesses because they repeated what Jesus claimed. 

That was a question I asked you . See the question mark. It looks like one of these >?< . And do you see the underlined? So please read carefully and answer my question if you can or you will be wasting your own time and mine. Did you read what I wrote at #19 

The Gospel of Matthew does not post it as a question.

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

So Matthew should not consider them false witnesses. They only repeated what Jesus said.

So they were not "false" witnesses then?  I have already covered that aspect.  Here> #19 < Please read it properly before you start repeating me and yourself.

You accept my conclusion the two false witnesses were not false witnesses because they repeated what Jesus claimed.

Yet you continue to maintain they are anonymous false witnesses.

 Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

Accept my conclusion and move on.

 Perhaps check the Apocrypha?

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

So Matthew should not consider them false witnesses. They only repeated what Jesus said.

Pilate was the Roman governor. He wouldn't be handling charges of blasphemy against the Torah/Talmud, especially as he wasn't Jewish.

Their names aren't important to the story. 

Tradesecret, your problem has always been that you think that the membership is as stupid as you are, and LIE like you do adinfinitum to try and get out of predicaments that I and others easily place you in!

But up to this point none of this identifies these two “certain witnesses” or gives us the reason why the gospel writers choose to keep them anonymous.

They kept all the other witnesses "anonymous" too.

Why didn't they name the names of all the other witnesses as well? 

I just fail to see how not naming two people is some big problem here.

even the two that said one factually truthful claim. 

But specifically as to why I think they were paid off, the story of Judas is the reason for my inference. .............. Who would lie for no reason? Money, however, is a clear motivator. 

Well they could have been two random people on the street whom the pharisees gave large sums of money to.......

So it is likely that the two false witnesses were just random people whom the Pharisees paid money to lie.

The charge of blasphemy by the High Priests did not hold up in the Roman court.

It was a Kangaroo Court. Conducted in secret so little details were provided.

Witness protection program.

Count the number of times Tradesecret said, “No, our PM is very Australian.” That is 3 times.

Does the same passage name every member of the chief priests and council? No.

Has anyone ever considered the New Testament story of the so called " certain false witnesses"?

After his arrest Jesus , it is written, was taken first to the home of Annas where he was slapped around and spat on then turned over to someone in a higher authority, Caiaphas.   But they had a problem. Under Mosaic law and the book of Deuteronomy, they had to have two witnesses to whatever the crime it was Jesus is alleged to have committed.

   According to Mark;

“the chief priests and all the council sought for witness against Jesus to put him to death; and found none”, Mark 15:55-56. KJV.

Then immediately, this happens:

Suddenly they find two “false” witnesses, who are willing to come forward and testify with stories that did tally;

“ And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands”. Mark14:57-58.KJV

Among the many other questions that the story of Jesus' arrest and trial raises, one has to ask,  why are these "certain" star witnesses never directly named?

Stephen, you totally missed the message in Mark 14 and Mark 15.

The  fact that no names were mentioned proves Jesus was tried in a Kangaroo Court.

Brother D. Wrote: YOUR PERCEIVED QUOTE IN THINKING ONCE AGAIN YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, NOT!!!: 

Tradsecret wote: "Hence, I think from your own words - John 3:16 anyway, that the idea of suffering eternally in Hell is a nonsense"

Brother D. Wrote: Tradey, your Bible stupidity is showing again, whoops!  The following Jesus inspired passages are all relative to HELL and show you to be the continued Bible fool that you are, because they all say that suffering eternally in Hell is NOT nonsense that you said it to be!

1. “And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” (Revelation 20:10)

2. "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." (Matthew 25:46)

3. “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41)

4. JESUS STATED: “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched." (Mark 9:43)

5. “And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."  (Mark 9:45)

6. “And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched". ( Matthew 9: 43-48)

7. “And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” (Revelation 20:10)

Miss dumbfounded of the Bible Tradesecret, I am sorry, but I was just following this passage towards your complete Bible stupidity in saying; quote: "that the idea of suffering eternally in Hell is a nonsense" "He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, So that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it. " (Titus 1:9). Get it Bible fool? Huh? LOL!

MISS TRADESECRET, JESUS H. CHRIST, YOUR COMPLETE BIBLE STUPIDITY IS WITHOUT BOUNDS, HOW CAN YOU SHOW YOURSELF IN THIS ESTEEMED RELIGION FORUM IS BEYOND REASON!!!

You lied when you posted, “Or when shila  tried to tell me that a British Prime Minister is also the PM of Australia.”

 Nope. You supported and agreed that fkn clown tradesecret when he said the PM of England was also the PM of Australia and the Commonwealth. 

Tell me thicko, as you say, the UK now has a new PM. Is he also the PM of Australia and the Commonwealth?

Tradesecret is from Australia. So he should know better.

Show us where he said, the PM of England was also the PM of Australia and the Commonwealth. 

What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge? 

Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.

 You may want to place Mary Magdelana attending the event, but she is never recorded as being a disciple and, it is said, that she and a few other women stood and to have " watched from afar". 

It is as you insist, "the bible should be taken literally at all times".

You even accept the disciples watch the crucifixion from a distance.

Nope. Learn to read. I clearly wrote:

Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.#339

The disciples we’re not there to smell his feet. They were watching from the distance the crucifixion so they could write about it.

 That is simply not the case. There is absolutely no mention of a single disciple being anywhere near the crucifixion site never mind the cross. They all scattered after the arrest and went into hiding.

learn to read. The women mentioned were: Mary, mother of James and Joseph/Joses is mentioned by Matthew and Mark. The others are mentioned by one gospel only: Mary, the mother of Jesus; Mary, the mother of the sons of Zebedee; Salome; a sister of Mary, mother of Jesus; Mary of Clopas

Yes I know about the women looking from afar in one gospel, and yet another gospel has them within speaking distance to Christ . But not a single mention of a single one of the 12 disciples being anywhere near their lord and master at the time he was nailed up and losing his faith in his "father".

And you still haven't answered this>. What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge? 

Matthew 27:48 Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink.

Now tell me what kind of friend would give a dying thirsty man Vinger to drink?

Roman soldier ...............unnamed in the Bible, who offered Jesus a sponge soaked in vinegar wine at the Crucifixion.

Stephen,

Don't you wish that DEBATEART Religion Forum had a simple rule, that when you are so Bible stupid as Shila and Miss Tradesecret, as we have easily shown them to be ad infinitum, that they have to take a 2 week furlough to give us, and other members, a needed rest from their Bible ignorance!!!

Well your god must have read my mind Brother D. and passed it onto you. It was only a few days ago where I was thinking that sometimes, some threads need an adjudicator. Such as when it was vehemently denied that a pastor and or a chaplain are to be addressed as Reverend, for which there is clear evidence that this is most certainly the case.

Or when shila  tried to tell me that a British Prime Minister is also the PM of Australia.

News update.

Britain now has its own PM Rishi Sunak. Rishi Sinai is the incumbent Prime Minister, succeeding Liz Truss.

Yes I know. And that for me certainly spells the end of Great Britain and England as I once knew it..  What's your point thicko?

You lied when you posted, “Or when shila  tried to tell me that a British Prime Minister is also the PM of Australia.”

And you still haven't answered this>. What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge? 

Matthew 27:48 Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink.

--> @BrotherD.Thomas

Stephen,

Don't you wish that DEBATEART Religion Forum had a simple rule, that when you are so Bible stupid as Shila and Miss Tradesecret, as we have easily shown them to be ad infinitum, that they have to take a 2 week furlough to give us, and other members, a needed rest from their Bible ignorance!!!

Well your god must have read my mind Brother D. and passed it onto you. It was only a few days ago where I was thinking that sometimes, some threads need an adjudicator. Such as when it was vehemently denied that a pastor and or a chaplain are to be addressed as Reverend, for which there is clear evidence that this is most certainly the case.

Or when shila  tried to tell me that a British Prime Minister is also the PM of Australia.

News update.

Britain now has its own PM Rishi Sunak. Rishi Sinai is the incumbent Prime Minister, succeeding Liz Truss.

Stephen,

Don't you wish that DEBATEART Religion Forum had a simple rule, that when you are so Bible stupid as Shila and Miss Tradesecret, as we have easily shown them to be ad infinitum, that they have to take a 2 week furlough to give us, and other members, a needed rest from their Bible ignorance!!!

What is it that the bible records Jesus being offered on a sponge? 

Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.

 You may want to place Mary Magdelana attending the event, but she is never recorded as being a disciple and, it is said, that she and a few other women stood and to have " watched from afar". 

It is as you insist, "the bible should be taken literally at all times".

You even accept the disciples watch the crucifixion from a distance.

Nope. Learn to read. I clearly wrote:

Not a single one of the 12 disciples is recorded as standing at the foot of the cross to watch Jesus die.#339

The disciples we’re not there to smell his feet. They were watching from the distance the crucifixion so they could write about it.

learn to read. The women mentioned were: Mary, mother of James and Joseph/Joses is mentioned by Matthew and Mark. The others are mentioned by one gospel only: Mary, the mother of Jesus; Mary, the mother of the sons of Zebedee; Salome; a sister of Mary, mother of Jesus; Mary of Clopas

Shila.  In your embarrassing biography, it says you are a hell bound Catholic, therefore, tell the membership in how you can be a HEBREW CATHOLIC, which is not possible, relative to following Matthews 15:24, where a Christian is to be Jewish, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."