Stephen

#67

You are very clever,

your atheist religion is strong,

and you are devout, 

your intellectual analysis of ancient scripture is very humbling.  

I would suggest that the "giant leap" came with the rapid development of intellectual ability.

the Witch wrote: God, straight white men are so bitter.

TWS1405 wrote: Says the bitter intellectual coward bigot/racist.

Shila wrote: Jesus spoke about god at a very young age. His views did not evolve over time. Jesus even believed This childish god was his father.

The Boy Jesus at the Temple

Luke 2:41 Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Festival of the Passover. 42 When he was twelve years old, they went up to the festival, according to the custom. 43 After the festival was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. 44 Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. 45 When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. 46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. 48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.”

49 “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”[a] 50 But they did not understand what he was saying to them.

51 Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. 52 And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.

This story has always amused me.

Here we have a woman chosen by God himself above all other women on the planet to be birth mother of his son and not even noticing that their "treasured" holy charge was absent until after a whole day's travelling!?  And they only recovered him after three whole days!!?

 Some "blessed among all women" she was, wasn't she? I am sure social services would have something to say about that if it were to happen today. 😂

And why on earth were they "astonished"!? Had this "blessed among all women" forgotten that the child that she had given birth to was gods son? 

Why didn't "they understand what he was saying to them"!? He was the son of God!

What is really hard to believe is how our spiritual detractors can make claims to being more "intelligent" and "logical" while demanding literal translations of religious narratives, anyone with even a basic understanding of religious narratives, would not call this "intelligent" or "logical".

The Bible is a book that includes history and prophecy, poetry and love songs, allegories and parables, none of which is conducive to any kind of literal translation. The information in the Old Testament was passed down verbally through many generations before it was finally written down in Hebrew and Aramaic, not exactly the most precise way to transmit information. Then, four hundred years after the Old Testament the New Testament began and it was written is Koine Greek. Until the invention of the printing press, each written copy had to be transcribed by hand, which we all know is a very inaccurate process.  For the oldest books of the Bible this went on for over 3,000 years, every single copy was transcribed by hand for generations and generations, and it started with information that had been handed down through the generations verbally. The language journey was roughly, verbal transmission in ancient Hebrew and Aramaic, initially written down in Koine Greek and Aramaic, then translated into Latin, then German, and finally English. 

Deb-8-a-bull--> @Stephen

You.You crazy cat.  

You are Man of the match every game.  ( if there was a TEAM Atheists ) .

You never get acknowledged for the thoughts you provoke and the interlect that you bring to the forum.  

'Tips hat '

Shila wrote: Here is a sample of Stephen’s thoughts. See post #35

Stephen wrote in reply to@Sidewalker “ I couldn't prove many of my personal beliefs about God or scripture either. If I cannot prove my beliefs, ideas and reasons for my opinions on these matters, I simply have to admit as such. Which I have done on numerous occasions. I have said that I have no problem with those that have a faith, hence the distinction between faith and belief. But that's just me. You shouldn't get so upset and be so concerned about such trivial opinions such as mine.

For instance. I believe Jesus and John the Baptist were in conflict if not full-blown enemies and more likely half-brothers rather than cousins. But I cannot prove it. I believe Jesus and or his followers had a part in John the Baptists death, but I cannot prove that either. 

I believe all the so-called miracles said to have been performed by Jesus can all be explained with common sense. After all, he wasn't the only one going around preforming such things, was he?

Still. I enjoyed your OP.#35

What he is trying to say is .

His like a different type of atheist.  

Bat shit crazy in like a serious sence.. 

His our key player over here at the atheist  alliance  institution place. Of doom 

He never gets rested.  NEVER.   

You may have a chance at confusing for like a second when it comes to scripture  translations because he gives people to much credit   

But we here are yet to see someone get around him,.

I doubt anyone could.  Real fukin logical , call it like it is and not much more.

I got him to laugh one day.      Real close we are.

Who are ya on bout, Deb?

You.You crazy cat.  

You are Man of the match every game.  ( if there was a TEAM Atheists ) .

You never get acknowledged for the thoughts you provoke and the interlect that you bring to the forum.  

'Tips hat '

Stepping Hen .

What he is trying to say is .

His like a different type of atheist.  

Bat shit crazy in like a serious sence.. 

His our key player over here at the atheist  alliance  institution place. Of doom 

He never gets rested.  NEVER.   

You may have a chance at confusing for like a second when it comes to scripture  translations because he gives people to much credit   

But we here are yet to see someone get around him,.

I doubt anyone could.  Real fukin logical , call it like it is and not much more.

I got him to laugh one day.      Real close we are.

Well, we are into 326 pages of argument now. So are you ready to deliver you verdict?

You are still arguing about rape.

So raping ten year old children is what Christians are doing to increase their numbers.  You really talk shite a lot of the time.

Try to stay on topic.

"in the news was a 10 year old girl raped and pregnant forced to have the baby. That too is part of the solution to grow the Christian population".#320

"So raping ten year old children is what Christians are doing to increase their numbers.  You really talk shite a lot of the time".#321

When those of us with intelligence read and reason with the Bible, we see a fable, a mere historical record to be read and treated as just that. A fable intertwined with human history and some actual events and places, but still a fable. A very long one at that. 

Are they really completely uninformed about the subject they are discussing?

And are you informed about the subject you are discussing?

Yes, I even know how to use a dictionary.

But hey, you’re the expert, if I’m doing it wrong, please do teach me how to be a theist.

Polytheist-Witch,

Atheists are hate-filled and angry with theists because they think they're better than them. Most resent their parents for being religious and making them learn any type of religion. They constantly argue the Bible is fact and then get upset when someone says they think the Bible is fact. They constantly talk about how we abuse our children and we're mentally ill and that's why they're better than us and our children should be taken from us. They're here to vent that hate because if they did it on the people they know that were theists they wouldn't have any friends or family. It's more than sad it's actually kind of scary. The atheist here is evangelical in their atheism.

Wow, you’re just full of yourself. Delusions of grandeur for sure. 

Atheists are NOT hate-filled angry with anyone. Anyone!!! 

The problem with theists is their fanaticism with their religious faith to the point where they have such vitriol for those who don’t agree with them. Your comment above is a shining example of that fact. History is also repeat with example after example of the violence done in His name in order to “spread the word.” So no, it is to you theists who are the “hate-filled angry” ones with anyone and everyone who just wants to be left alone to live their own lives, culture and faith as they have done their entire lives, generation after generation. 

Jesus spoke about god at a very young age. His views did not evolve over time. Jesus even believed This childish god was his father.

The Boy Jesus at the Temple

Luke 2:41 Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Festival of the Passover. 42 When he was twelve years old, they went up to the festival, according to the custom. 43 After the festival was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. 44 Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. 45 When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. 46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. 48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.”

49 “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”[a] 50 But they did not understand what he was saying to them.

51 Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. 52 And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.

with being an atheist, there is no flavours too it, you either are one or you aren't.

-->@Stephen @zedvictor4

Dumb and Dumber. 

Talk about letting the TEAM down 

> @zedvictor4

Hi Stephen.

I would contend that man polluting his environment is a natural occurrence.

That is a reasonable observance, Vic lad.  

The difference is that man can avert the pollution he is creating but he cannot do anything about what the position of the planets and other heavenly bodies have on the earth in relation to the devastating effect they have. 

If the surrounding planets and heavenly bodies have such an adverse effect on earth why is earth the only planet that sustains life?

Revelation is, well, revealing too. Especially when it speaks of inflation and a loaf of bread costing a day's wages- at the end of the age.

“A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius". Outrageous if you ask me Vic, lad. Especially the barley part. That is used in making beer . How much has your beer gone up lately?

Outrageous inflation in other words.

In Revelation 6:6, the writer states that he hears four living creatures saying a quart of wheat costs a whole day's wages. Out of a quart of wheat, you can make a loaf of bread. In the near future, the way inflation keeps going up, a loaf of bread could cost $200 or a whole day's wages.

That hasn't happened yet. The author must have invested heavily in bread stocks. 

 No, there is a lot to be said about this ancient book of which one idiot pastor here once said, "is only a book that is full of words that mean nothing".  

That is why the pastor was called an idiot. He should have got a translated version of the Bible in the language he spoke.

How's Mrs Vic doing these days? All good, I hope. Give her my best wishes.

So you saved your best wished for Mrs. Vic.

--> @zedvictor4

Evolution:

Indeed, it is an interesting subject I have found. Right up until it comes to Homo sapiens then there appears to a giant leap in man's progress that even Darwin failed to explain. Hence my point that man in his natural state is not one suited to the natural world.

Actually it proves man in his natural state responded well to evolutionary forces which enabled him to make the giant leap in man's progress that even Darwin failed to explain.

Evolution:

Regards to you and yours Stephen.

Hi Stephen.

I would contend that man polluting his environment is a natural occurrence.

I think you would be hard pressed to find a grade schooler that doesn't know that belief in God is a matter of faith,

how is it possible that so many Atheists can't grasp that concept?

Are they really completely uninformed about the subject they are discussing?

This mantra that if you have "faith" then you have a "burden of proof" so I win, is beyond childish.   

Are they really completely uninformed about the subject they are discussing?

so I win, is beyond childish.   

But that is what the topic is about, “ Atheists are hypocrites.”

I am here to read the arguments and verify if  Atheists are indeed hypocrites.

The present extinction event is unique because the changes that the earth is experiencing, such as rising water levels and temperatures, are the result of human activity. 

BULLSHITE! You are falling for that old government chestnut of man-made climate change that they have purposefully conflated with man polluting his environment.  And thicko's like yourself have fallen for it.

Didn't you learn fk all at school concerning the movement of the earth around the sun? Here are some clues. The earth has a perigee and an apogee. On every completed cycle the earth retards 1arc degree = 1 arc second. 

Now off you go and work the rest out for yourself.

Climate Change and global warming caused by human activity.

Perigean and Apogean Tides effects are minimal.

The greatest difference between high and low tide is around Full Moon and New Moon, known as spring tides or king tides. During these Moon phases, the gravitational forces of the Moon and the Sun combine to pull the ocean’s water in the same direction.

Perigean spring tides have around 5 cm (2 inches) larger variation than regular spring tides, while apogean spring tides have around 5 cm (2 inches) smaller variation than normal spring tides.

Natural Disaster Trigger?

Shila wrote: There have been five great extinctions throughout the history of the world.

Many experts argue that we are now facing a sixth. These periods of mass extinction have resulted in the loss of 98 percent of all organisms that have ever existed on planet earth.

In order for an event to be considered a mass extinction, around 75 percent of the earth’s species need to go extinct over about 2.8 million years. 

Past mass extinctions have been due to one-off events such as a volcanic eruption or an asteroid impact or caused by phenomena such as rising sea levels or drastically shifting atmospheric temperatures.

The present extinction event is unique because the changes that the earth is experiencing, such as rising water levels and temperatures, are the result of human activity. 

--> @Shila

Human bodies haven’t changed much. But we cover them out of modestly.

I would think that losing one's body hair only to have  replace it with the hair of dead animals for warmth is a giant leap from one's natural state. Something which you have also failed to explain.

Obviously you don’t read your Bible.

 Don't kid yourself.

The advantage humans have over animals is when it is cold they can wear their fur and when it is hot they can take off their fur coat.

Animals have less control over their environment.

Human bodies haven’t changed much. But we cover them out of modestly.

Obviously you don’t read your Bible.

-> @Shila

God did not give animals or birds control of their environment. They are totally dependent of nature. Bu5 humans have dominance over their environment. 

Nope.  Just one recent 21st century example; Two thirds of Pakistan was flooded just weeks ago; many people lost their lives and properties were totally destroyed and lost for ever.  So, it is not just animals that have no control over their environment, we humans just like them, are at its mercy. Stop talking bullshite.

God has sent great floods before. But here he saved the majority of Pakistanis unlike Noah’s  flood where he destroyed the Jews.

God saying "have dominion over all the animals" simply makes us an apex predator.  Tell me; how does a human in his natural state go about having dominion over a frenzy of great white sharks in their own domain? Or just one great white shark?

Shark hunting by humans is actually driving the sharks extinct. Shows humans are masters of the sea. 

Stop it ffs. So, you can stay under water without coming up for air longer than a whale or a dolphin, can you? 

Scuba divers out manoeuvre sharks.

And you didn't answer my question>> Tell me, if we humans are so adapted to the NATURAL world, why is it we lost our natural fur coats only to have to hunt down and kill other animals for their coats?

God made Adam and Eve bare naked so he could ogle at their nakedness.

So, are you saying that humans didn't evolve from apes and that humans in their natural state have always been naked?

That is why God noticed their naked bodies and grew obsessive.

Genesis 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

The verse 3:21 of Genesis says different. 

"King James Bible

Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins and clothed them.

But either way, according to the contradictory bible, it was either God or themselves that made artificial covering for these two earthlings. Which is not their natural state by any means. 

After banishing Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden they were no longer protected. God then tried to protect humans from the prying eyes of angels. Bu5 even here god was unsuccessful.

God did not give animals or birds control of their environment. They are totally dependent of nature. Bu5 humans have dominance over their environment. 

God saying "have dominion over all the animals" simply makes us an apex predator.  Tell me; how does a human in his natural state go about having dominion over a frenzy of great white sharks in their own domain? Or just one great white shark?

Shark hunting by humans is actually driving the sharks extinct. Shows humans are masters of the sea. 

And you didn't answer my question>> Tell me, if we humans are so adapted to the NATURAL world, why is it we lost our natural fur coats only to have to hunt down and kill other animals for their coats?

God made Adam and Eve bare naked so he could ogle at their nakedness.

Genesis 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

You say:  "Humans go skinny dipping at night in his natural state".  Then they get out of the water, dry themselves off and dress themselves and maybe sit in front of a nice warm fire. The only animal that needs external fire /heat and cannot survive without it.

You say: "Humans dominate planet earth nearing 8 billion in population."  This simply means they are prolific breeders and has nothing to do with surviving in the wild in their natural state.

You say: "Humans don’t have mating seasons. They can mate anytime of the year". But again- This simply means they are prolific breeders and has nothing to do with surviving in the wild in their natural state.

You say: "Animals live in zoos. Humans live in planned cities."   There is only a tiny fraction of the world's animals in captivity at the will of man. Animals do not need to build cities. The natural world is its natural home and habitat.

Tell me, if we humans are so adapted to the NATURAL world, why is it we lost our natural fur coats only to have to hunt down and kill other animals for their coats?

It’s  call dominance.

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

--> @Shila

--> @Shila

Humans were better suited for survival and outpaced every other animal species.

That is the biggest load of old bollocks I have ever heard. Humans are the most unsuited species for nature than any single species on earth. Humans will very rarely last one single night in his natural state in the wild. 

Humans dominate planet earth nearing 8 billion in population.

 So what!?

Humans go skinny dipping at night in his natural state.

 So what!?

Humans don’t have mating seasons. They can mate anytime of the year.

 So what!?

Animals live in zoos. Humans live in planned cities.

 So what!?

That is  evidence “Humans were better suited for survival and outpaced every other animal species.”

--> @Shila

You aren't making sense. Either the rate of births is the same as Islam or it is not, yet here you are telling me about abortion rates in the west being the same as in Africa. In Islam women are not allowed to terminate a pregnancy. In Islam the man can have more than one wife. Yet here you are telling us that the rates of births are the same.

Islam is outgrowing Christianity all around the world.  Christianity is on its last legs and the only growth is shown to be in only some African countries.

There were more Christians than Muslims.

There may well have been, but you can be assured that Christians are being outnumbered all over the world. Christianity/Christians is/are in decline. These are facts.

Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world.

Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world | Pew Research Center

That is why Christians in America have banned abortions to help bridge the population gap.

By banning gays and LGBT as well Christians will increase their numbers. Plural marriage is also under consideration.

In the news was a 10 year old girl raped and pregnant forced to have the baby. That too is part of the solution to grow the Christian population.

--> @Shila

Humans were better suited for survival and outpaced every other animal species.

That is the biggest load of old bollocks I have ever heard. Humans are the most unsuited species for nature than any single species on earth. Humans will very rarely last one single night in his natural state in the wild. 

Humans dominate planet earth nearing 8 billion in population.

Humans go skinny dipping at night in his natural state.

Humans don’t have mating seasons. They can mate anytime of the year.

Animals live in zoos. Humans live in planned cities.

You aren't making sense. Either the rate of births is the same as Islam or it is not, yet here you are telling me about abortion rates in the west being the same as in Africa. In Islam women are not allowed to terminate a pregnancy. In Islam the man can have more than one wife. Yet here you are telling us that the rates of births are the same.

Islam is outgrowing Christianity all around the world.  Christianity is on its last legs and the only growth is shown to be in only some African countries.

There were more Christians than Muslims.

More over, if the Son is the Father what of  Mary getting pregnant?  Is this not an incestuous congregation? The Father has sex with the mother to conceive the Son who is also the Father.....so technically the Son, who is also the father, had sex with his mother"... 

Wylted wrote: I am from the southern part of the United States. I speak for every southerner when I say, that fucking my own mother is nothing to be ashamed of.

Humans were better suited for survival and outpaced every other animal species.

If humans evolved from Apes then why are apes still with us. So May I ask what are you doing here?

> @Shila

->

@Shila

Christian countries are breeding just as fast.

Where.  In Africa?

Africans are converting very fast to Christianity. But Christians breed just as fast in every country.

 And your evidence for this is what exactly? 

Rate of Abortion in Christian countries.

->

@Shila

Christian countries are breeding just as fast.

Where.  In Africa?

Africans are converting very fast to Christianity. But Christians breed just as fast in every country.

--> @Shila

Slavery was not practical to the Jews because it would be impossible to teach the slaves all the different commandments and restrictions required in Jewish households.

Are you saying Jews didn't keep slaves?

Only a minority of Jews kept slaves.

Christian countries are breeding just as fast.

Slavery was not practical to the Jews because it would be impossible to teach the slaves all the different commandments and restrictions required in Jewish households.

Why do men bring women flowers and rings and rare gems from the Earth.

Why do women cook meals

and wear clothes men find attractive on them.

Why do friends buy gifts for one another.

People "worshipping" one another. Gods are no different if you're going to ask gods for things they wants stuff in return. Again it's like any other relationship.

Atheists are hypocrites

 What have atheist to be hypocritical about?  

read my very first post.

 I did but I am failing to see the hypocrisy. So do you have any examples of atheists displaying hypocrisy?  You appear to be saying that a theists are more noble than atheists simply because they believe different to you in that the do not believe in the existence of a god. Am I correct?

I cant be bothered explaining, just know there's a reason why idealists exist.

--> @Shila

Shila wrote: It shouldn’t surprise anyone if Muslims confuse Jesus with their own prophet.

Stephen wrote: I am sure they understand the differences between a man that preaches "turn the other cheek" and one that preaches " do not take Christians and Jews as your friends".

Shila wrote: Muslims see both Jesus and Mohammad as prophets.

Yes I know. It was you that said Muslim" confuse " the two. 

Shila wrote: She deliver on that promise. Jesus is seen as saviour , lord and King to billions of Christians.

Stephen wrote:  So you keep saying, but what is your evidence of this dying and rising god-man ( of which there have been many) saving anyone? And you are still hopelessly appealing to numbers.  Not to mention the other failed prophecies promised to his mother.

The evidence for fulfillment is the billions that worship Jesus and call him Lord, King and God.

 There you go again, appealing to numbers. It doesn't prove anything. 

This discussion has now turned circular.

 

Numbers matter. If you slap someone on the head enough times it will change his mind.

Atheists are hypocrites

 What have atheist to be hypocritical about?  

read my very first post.

Atheists are hypocrites

Shila wrote: It shouldn’t surprise anyone if Muslims confuse Jesus with their own prophet.

Stephen wrote: I am sure they understand the differences between a man that preaches "turn the other cheek" and one that preaches " do not take Christians and Jews as your friends".

Shila wrote: Muslims see both Jesus and Mohammad as prophets.

Shila wrote: She deliver on that promise. Jesus is seen as saviour , lord and King to billions of Christians.

Stephen wrote:  So you keep saying, but what is your evidence of this dying and rising god-man ( of which there have been many) saving anyone? And you are still hopelessly appealing to numbers.  Not to mention the other failed prophecies promised to his mother.

The evidence for fulfillment is the billions that worship Jesus and call him Lord, King and God.

Appealing to numbers counts for exactly zero. Billions of Muslims see Jesus only as a prophet . And we know that "the greatest prophet that ever lived" appears to have gotten it all wrong.

800 million Muslims are illiterate. The prophet Mohammad was illiterate.

800 million Muslims out of 1.4 billion are illiterate: Dr Farrukh Saleem

It shouldn’t surprise anyone if Muslims confuse Jesus with their own prophet.

She deliver on that promise. Jesus is seen as saviour , lord and King to billions of Christians.

But you haven't bothered to address the point of the thread. Why did god omit to tell the gory details of her son's  wicked and torturous demise? This is not  mention all of the false promises he made to Jesus' mother the very blessed among women.

According to scriptures Luke 1:26-35 Mary was told of Christ’s divinity.

She deliver on that promise. Jesus is seen as saviour , lord and King to billions of Christians.

I'd delete this thread since everybody is getting so bent out of shape, but this site doesn't let you delete anything. Adios amigos.

John only baptized Jesus. John never anointed Jesus.

In fact John even expressed doubt Jesus was the promised one.

Matthew 11:2 When John, who was in prison, heard about the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his disciples3 to ask him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”

I just converted to Catholicism, ask me anything.