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@Polytheist-Witch
Every atheist was present for the beginning of every religion what a miracle.
Then what happened, Witch?
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@Tradesecret
it is not your thread.
Have you forgotten who you are today Reverend "memory man".? This is my thread.
Why Is Religion so Important To The Believer ?
>>>>>>Author:Stephen,7 days ago.
You are just even too arrogant to accept the biblical definition of the word religion. And I think I know why too.
I can accept any definition I like -
So what definition are you going to accept for the word religion if not the definition of BIBLICAL dictionary
I think the notion of religion and Christianity in some senses are incompatible and in other senses they are totally consistent.
What you think is irrelevant, its the definition that counts. Why is it that you are desperately trying to distance religion from Christianity and Christianity from religion? That is an impossibility Reverend, is this why you are desperately attempting to redefine the word religion isn't it?
Am I absurd? O I hope so.
No. You your just someone that attempts to redefine universally accepted definitions for words when they don't suit your own narrative.
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But thanks for the commendation
You won't be getting any from me Reverend "Tradey" no matter how you want to define "Commendation" in any language.
"You would need to demonstrate that perfection is equivalent to without a flaw. #34" My view is that humans were created very good.As I have already explained to you, the word - perfect / perfection means "without flaw" in any dictionary that I know. But of course, we now know that you don't accept the universally accepted definition of - perfect - but without any sound reason you refuse to accept it and dismiss it (because it was written by humans, I suspect)..So lets try this;KJV Dictionary's version , which also happens to agree with the universally accepted version.PER'FECT, adjective [Latin perfectus, perficio, to complete; per and facio, to do or make through, to carry to the end.]1. Finished; complete; consummate; not defective; having all that is requisite to its nature and kind; as a perfect statue; a perfect likeness; a perfect work; a perfect system.So that then is the KJV bible dictionary's definition. Are you refusing this definition.Why???????
Because you are arguing above the word - perfect .
I asked you - could anyone of us be perfect? #24 I also asked you to define the word Perfect/ Perfection when the word is used in the bible.#42
You came back with this:
"we still need someone to define for us what perfection is". #26
I have given you the accepted definitions of the word - perfect and I have also given you the KJV Bible dictionary' definition of the word perfect.
THAT'S WHY!!!!
So do you accept the KJV's Bible dictionary's definition? Yes or no?
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@Tradesecret
@ Bones; You have not studied and found yourself approved in the sciences of theology or language or historical literature.
And we only have the unreliable word and your own poor memory in all things biblical that says that you yourself are approved, accredited and qualified, don't we, Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecret?
"I am a lawyer. There you goBut in my role as a pastor - which I also do, I counsel in pastoral care. And yes, I am qualified by certified colleges with proper accreditation. I am also a chaplain to our Countries Defence forces, a position I could not have without proper qualifications".
"I do understand Orthodoxy. I studied and was tutored by academics, scholars, and priests and fathers from the Orthodox Church".
Tutored by your ;
" Hebrew teacher" #45
Not to mention your extreme power of memory and your own dogged, thousands of hours reading and memorising the bible.
" I have been taught to memorise the bible from very young. I have read the bible numerous times. I try and read the OT once every year and the NT twice a year. I know it reasonable well and can even read Hebrew and Greek".
And crow;
" I study the original languages, translate them to English", #25
And while we are speaking languages and the translation of, tell me Reverend "Tradey" once you have translated these ancient scriptures into English do you rely your own English version of the bible?
You argue the meaning of the word - perfection - saying ;
"You would need to demonstrate that perfection is equivalent to without a flaw. #34" My view is that humans were created very good.
As I have already explained to you, the word - perfect / perfection means "without flaw" in any dictionary that I know. But of course, we now know that you don't accept the universally accepted definition of - perfect - but without any sound reason you refuse to accept it and dismiss it (because it was written by humans, I suspect).
.
So lets try this;
KJV Bible Dictionary's version , which also happens to agree with the universally accepted version.
PER'FECT, adjective [Latin perfectus, perficio, to complete; per and facio, to do or make through, to carry to the end.]
1. Finished; complete; consummate; not defective; having all that is requisite to its nature and kind; as a perfect statue; a perfect likeness; a perfect work; a perfect system.
So that then is the KJV bible dictionary's definition. Are you refusing this definition.
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@Polytheist-Witch
That could well be as early as 3700 BC. That's ancient then , Witch?I told you earlier I'm not discussing it with you and you continue to bring it up this is at this point the 22nd reference to it.
Lets make it 23rd.
I was stating a fact, Witch.
That if as you say, these pagan gods were from before the bronze or iron age, then this would certainly make them Ancient gods.
So given that you have also told us that your Pagan gods and the Norse gods come from another world / planet, i.e. not of this earth, this would make these beings ancient alien gods. The very type of being that you mock and deny existed.
you continue to bring it up
I will bring up the fact that on the one hand you freely mock anyone that considers ancient alien gods on the one hand, while believing yourself on the other hand that these ancient alien gods existed
And I will remind you of your double standards and hypocrisy when and if the occasion arises.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Those gods were predominant and worshipped in the Bronze Age as well. That's before the Iron Age right? but it probably goes back before that.
That could well be as early as 3700 BC. That's ancient then , Witch?
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@Tradesecret
it is not your thread.
Have you forgotten who you are today Reverend "memory man".? This is my thread.
Why Is Religion so Important To The Believer ?
>>>>>>Author:Stephen,7 days ago.
You are just even too cowardly to accept the biblical definition of the word religion. And I know why too.
I can accept any definition I like -
So what definition are you going to accept for the word religion if not the definition of BIBLICAL dictionary
I think the notion of religion and Christianity in some senses are incompatible and in other senses they are totally consistent.
What you think is irrelevant, you idiot. it the definition that counts. Why is it that you are desperately trying to distance religion from Christianity and Christianity from religion? That is an impossibility Reverend, is this why you are desperately attempting to redefine the word religion isn't it?
Am I absurd? O I hope so.
No. You your just cowardly contradictory clown that attempts to redefine universally accepted definitions for words when they don't suit your own narrative.
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Look. >> You have clearly said that you "NEVER take ANYTHING in the bible LITERALLY".
Tradesecret wrote: I never take anything in the bible literally.
This means that you do not take the words of the bible in their usual or most basic sense or with metaphor or exaggeration.
Yet are quick to tell others to go read the bible. Why, if it is not to be taken literally and you profess to us that you, an "accredited and qualified" Pastor and Chaplain don't take it literally yourself? What is the point of the bible!?
Should we take the raising of Lazarus literally or not?
What about the parting of the red sea?
The Virgin birth?
Water into wine?
Water from a stone?
Walking on water?
What about long dead saints rising from their graves?
Did Jesus literally rise from being literally dead for three days?
All the above are in the BIBLE, are we then to take these a literal events OR NOT!?
Seems to me that you dip in and out of the literal if and when it suites you to do so and ONLY when it suites your own narrative. .
You are full of tripe Reverend "Tradey". 😂
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@Tradesecret
The book was written in Hebrew. Not in English.#48. I don't take the bible literally if the literal is about interpreting it.
IF!?
So then you have rendered all bibles written in English unreliable, useless and obsolete. Yet suggest that people should read it for themselves?
literal
/ˈlɪt(ə)r(ə)l/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
- 1.taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or exaggeration.
So you do not take it literal then, SEE!
Whenever you find yourself on the wrong end of the argument you will always try to redefine the words not just of the bible, but the whole of the fkn English language!
Your a clown reverend "Tradey"😂
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@zedvictor4
Atheists are also known to visit Stonehenge.
Indeed. I have been there myself, Vic lad. Curiosity you understand
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@Tradesecret
The bible says man was made very good. Not perfect.
But you don't accept the bible as literal do you.
Here>>
Tradesecret wrote: I never take anything in the bible literally.
You also say that:
The book was written in Hebrew. Not in English.#48.
So with a wave of your pompous hand, you have just rendered all bibles written in English unreliable, useless and obsolete.
But then didn't you once say that you preferer the KJV or the NKJV of the bible?
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@Tradesecret
I have no reason to answer your questions
So you won't even accept the bible dictionary's definition of religion.
Then why even respond at all? Why are you on my thread? Why are you even on this forum, Reverend "Tradey"?
Why is it that you are desperately trying to distance religion from Christianity and Christianity from religion? That is an impossibility Reverend, is this why you are desperately attempting to redefine the word religion isn't it?
You know that you are always going to be questioned on the absurdities' that spill from that great big pompous pie hole of yours. Try not to forget that Reverend memory man.#52
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@Polytheist-Witch
Nope its still about pagans, Druids in particular. Can't mention the Druids and not mention their persecution by early Roman Christians.
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My religion is Heathenism, the pre- Christian gods of the Germans, Norse and Anglo-Saxons.
That'll be the Iron Age then. circa1200 BC?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Are you a member of a Grove, Witch?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Most of the conversation here revolve around Christians
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@Tradesecret
Stephen, I don't have to believe it for the sake of a discussion.But the "discussion" is about the believer and why religion is important to him/her? What's the point to posting anything when you don't believe it?Do you accept the KJV Bible Dictionary definition?ReligionRELIGION, noun relij'on. [Latin religio, from religo, to bind anew; re and ligo, to bind. This word seems originally to have signified an oath or vow to the gods, or the obligation of such an oath or vow, which was held very sacred by the Romans.]1. religion in its most comprehensive sense, includes a belief in the being and perfections of God, in the revelation of his will to man, in man's obligation to obey his commands, in a state of reward and punishment, and in man's accountableness to God; and also true godliness or piety of life, with the practice of all moral duties.Circular argument. when I am talking to fellow Christians, I would say Christianity is a religion.
Nope. It is not circular. Stop being such a spineless coward. It is the KJV bible dictionary's definition of the word - religion. Do you not accept this bible dictionary definition?
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@Tradesecret
I have told you that the answer is not simple.
Well you found it simple enough and straight forward enough to shout that ONLY god can be perfect. So shouldn't the answer to my question be no?
Can any one us us be perfect?#24
Even if you think you have just asked a simple question, it deserves more than just a simple answer.
I also asked you what does god and the bible mean when it uses the word perfect/perfection, and you made a fkn song and dance about that too. Which is amazing after all of your self confessed acute bible memory prowess taught to you at a very early age#52
Obviously you are wanting either a yes or no so that then you can ask your next little question or make some assertion proving the contradictions within Christianity or the bible.
Nope. I just want you to be honest and either say that you don't know or tell us what god and the bible means when it uses the word perfect/perfection?
Your intention is to ridicule and harass. Not to seek answers to questions.
I ask questions because I want answers not because I do not want answers, you clown.
Do you have an answer
For what?
I have also indicated that at times the bibles uses the term perfect equating it to maturity.
No you haven't.
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@Tradesecret
I love how you twist things.
What is it that you believe that I have "twisted", Reverend memory man? I have simply reminded you of your powers of memory that you bragged that you possess, here>>
Tradesecret wrote: I have been taught to memorise the bible from very young. I have read the bible numerous times. I try and read the OT once every year and the NT twice a year. I know it reasonable well and can even read Hebrew and Greek".#52
I have no more reason to answer a question than you do. And you choose not to answer questions.
You are just simply a fraud and coward, aren't you Reverend memory man.
If you take the view that because I ask a question that I do not know the answer - then you are a fool.
So if you do NOT know simply answer , I do NOT know.
I asked you can anyone of us be perfect#24, it a yes or no question. You have said elsewhere that only god is perfect. So then does it not follow that your answer is NO?
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@Tradesecret
Stephen, I don't have to believe it for the sake of a discussion.
But the "discussion" is about the believer and why religion is important to him/her? What's the point to posting anything when you don't believe it?
Do you accept the KJV Bible Dictionary definition?
Religion
RELIGION, noun relij'on. [Latin religio, from religo, to bind anew; re and ligo, to bind. This word seems originally to have signified an oath or vow to the gods, or the obligation of such an oath or vow, which was held very sacred by the Romans.]
1. religion in its most comprehensive sense, includes a belief in the being and perfections of God, in the revelation of his will to man, in man's obligation to obey his commands, in a state of reward and punishment, and in man's accountableness to God; and also true godliness or piety of life, with the practice of all moral duties.
1. religion in its most comprehensive sense, includes a belief in the being and perfections of God, in the revelation of his will to man, in man's obligation to obey his commands, in a state of reward and punishment, and in man's accountableness to God; and also true godliness or piety of life, with the practice of all moral duties.
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@Tradesecret
Religion is equivalent to worldview. .......................no need for supernatural and indeed goes beyond theistic religions.
And you believe this is the definition of the word religion? And do you accept this?
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@Lemming
Nazca lines.
I am still puzzled and fascinated with them. As I am Angkor Wat. And the Indian Vimanas
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I am not saying it is/was. I am saying I find it hard to believe it was a folly. After I said- I find it difficult believe it was simply ` art for arts sake` so to speak.#5
folly
A costly ornamental building with no practical purpose, especially a tower or mock-Gothic ruin built in a large garden or park.
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@Lemming
Stephen wrote: I find it difficult to believe that it was `art for arts sake`, so to speak.Art for arts sake, 'is a motivation often for people,But I also think people create art for meaning,Royal thrones or capital cities, decorated to show importance, prestige,Places of worship or business,Decorated, fine carved, to show the regard one holds
Then maybe - folly - would have been a better expression.
folly
- a costly ornamental building with no practical purpose, especially a tower or mock-Gothic ruin built in a large garden or park.
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@Lemming
When we could have just talked about how cool Stonehenge and different belief systems are.
Well I made the thread more about the pagan religious practices and rituals taking place at the Henge at the moment rather than the ancient monument itself.
But yes, Stonehenge is still an absolute mystery . Is it a calendar? Is it a star clock? No one to this day actually knows. There are new theories being put forward everyday. I also wonder should we ever discover it true purpose, what then?
I have been to Stonehenge a few times in my time. Once you have seen it the mind starts immediately questioning its purpose or if it had one at all? I find it difficult to believe that it was `art for arts sake`, so to speak.
Meet King Arthur, AKA John Timothy Rothwell. King Arthur Uther Pendragon Holds Pagan Rituals at Stonehenge (nbcnews.com)
"Before this transformation, he was a British Army soldier and a member of a biker gang. Now he is a pagan priest, a sword-bearer and the chieftain druid of this anachronistic creed.
"Every day, I wake up Arthur, I go to sleep Arthur. I wake up a druid, I go to sleep a druid," he said.
"Every day, I wake up Arthur, I go to sleep Arthur. I wake up a druid, I go to sleep a druid," he said.
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@Lemming
For these Pagans to be able to continue their ancient practices unmolested and not murdered for believing different is a part and testamant of their endurance .
They appear to have been a quite peaceful bunch although the bible does say they - Pagans- were once baby burners.
Deuteronomy 12:29-32 29The LORD your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, 30and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, "How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same." 31You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods. 32See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
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" a tradition that has gone on for at least 5000 years"! This would make their gods old, very old. Ancient in fact.
Thousands of people including Pagans, Druids and Witches, gathered at Stonehenge in England's county of Wiltshire, Tuesday, to attend the annual Winter Solstice ceremony, marking the shortest day and longest night of the year.
Hundreds of Druids attended the Winter Solstice ceremony, many of them in traditional costume, while performing ceremonies with music and dances around the prehistoric monument, with many participants touching the ancient stones for its 'healing energy.'
Meet King Arthur Pendragon
Isn't it nice that they can continue this ancient religious practice without the fear of persecution by Christians ?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Stephen wrote: Well if you have ever looked into the ancient phenomena, you would find immediately that ALL religions speak of their so called "gods" coming from the sky. So I think they may "validate" each others religious beliefs of the origins of their "gods" .Polytheist-Witch, wrote: That is not true at all. In the Norse religion they come from a planet. #204
This
would make them alien to Earth.
Now
is all you have to do is confirm how far back do your own or
these "Norse " alien gods go. Are they ancient ,
medieval or modern?
No god created the universe. Just their world or worlds.#12
Where
are these worlds of the gods and how old are your own gods?
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Stephen wrote: Ok. So you are saying that religion is important to the believer because of an irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell". I can accept that.Its a reasonable suggestion if you or they can prove there is such a place as "hell". Can you? #29Now tell me, where does this irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell" originate. Do you know?#34
Now I am asking you to leave this thread as per CoC instructions.
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@Tarik
Which in your case you have failed to support said claim.Now your just lying, because after you made your claim pertaining to me you saidI can accept that.
I can accept it IF!
Stephen wrote: Ok. So you are saying that religion is important to the believer because of an irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell". I can accept that.Its a reasonable suggestion if you or they can prove there is such a place as "hell". Can you? #29Now tell me, where does this irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell" originate. Do you know?#34
You have come back with this absolute shite?
Tarik wrote: Whether or not it’s a superstition is besides the point,
No it isn't besides the point and that is not proving your claim you dulcet dunce.. Is all that is doing is dismissing what I have wrote without first proving your own fkn claim.
I won't be responding any more UNTILL you have proven your own original claim.
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@Tarik
I started this thread with a question not a claim, you clown .Do you even know what a claim is?
I do. A claim is when someone , just like you, says that the reason religion is so important to believers is because they "fear hell". Which in your case you have failed to support said claim. How do you know that a "fear of hell" is the reason why religion is so important to believers? <<<< answer that . It was you own original unsupported claim.#21
Like I have said and asked : You have put the importance of the believer believing in religion down to "fear of hell". Its a reasonable suggestion if you or they can prove there is such a place as "hell". Can you? Because you haven't offered anything "valid" that supports your own suggestion................This is a claim (YOUR CLAIM) you clown.
Now tell me, where does this irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell" originate. Do you know?
Well until you can support your own original claim.#21 What else does that leave, if not an irrational, unfounded superstition? If you are not willing to even attempt to support your claim and it simply remains unfounded and in the realms of irrational, unfounded superstition.
Now I won't be going around in circles with you.
So off you trot. There's' a good lad.
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@Tarik
you still haven’t defended the counter claims
It is you that hasn't defended single claim that you have made. You just keep adding to your claims.
I started this thread with a question not a claim, you clown .
Have you supported a single one of your claims? Have you told us where this "fear of hell" originates as to why religion is so important to the believer AS YOU HAVE CLIAMED?
Can you prove "hell" even exists? As you have claimed?
And you haven't shown why you believe or even know that it is "fear of hell" that makes religion so important to the believer. As you have claimed.
You see, all unsupported claims made you YOU.
no progress can be made with someone who operates like
Not when you make unsupported claims as you have done.. this why a conversation cannot move forward. Simply because of your own empty unsupported claims.
Now. Off you go. I won't be arguing your unsupported claims .
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@Tarik
he clearly has a hidden agenda....
I do, I want know why religion is so important to the believer? Which is hardly "hidden" is it?
for religious people to prove there religion.
Nope. I already believe that believers in god and scripture have a religion, so there is no need for "religious people to prove their religion" to me.
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@Tradesecret
I will once you define religion for me.
Use any universally accepted definition, you want.
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@Tradesecret
I suppose in England, like often it is in America, students are spoon fed by their teachers. Perhaps that is why both England and America is falling behind the rest of the world.
Not sure that means anything to me or my question. I simply want you to explain what the meaning of the word "Perfect/Perfection when used in the bible?.
I think the problem is with you.
And your own problem at every turn is to avoid 1 simple question by replacing it with 14 questions!!! of your own as you have done above.Here>#26
Why are you finding this 1 simple question so difficult when it was YOU that raised it? You have told us about your thousands of hours put into reading the bible, and in TWO!!! other languages.
Here>>#52
"I am not sure entirely what you mean [......]I have been taught to memorise the bible from very young. I have read the bible numerous times. I try and read the OT once every year and the NT twice a year. I know it reasonable well and can even read Hebrew and Greek".#52
I like my students to learn - and to do this requires thinking on their part. I will often ask them questions in response to their questions.
Except when it comes to almost anyone on this forum.
But mostly I will ask you a question back. To help you clarify what you have just asked.
After all, although sometimes you ask great questions, you don't actually grasp exactly what you are asking,
I am asking you simply to define the word Perfect/ Perfection when the word is used in the bible.. I am not asking you to depart some great arcane mystery.
The best lessons people learn are the ones they learn themselves. Spoon feeding people really does not teach - it just produces propaganda
So after all of your THOUSANDS OF HOURS spent reading the bible in three languages, not to mention teaching, tutoring and lecturing on the matter#20, you cannot answer 1 simple question that you have asked yourself.
You are a joke Reverend "Tradey" not to mention a fraud. . 🤣😂🤣😂
"I am not sure entirely what you mean [......]I have been taught to memorise the bible from very young. I have read the bible numerous times. I try and read the OT once every year and the NT twice a year. I know it reasonable well and can even read Hebrew and Greek".#52
You couldn't even remember that Lot was righteous in the eyes of god. Have you forgotten this? Well I haven't!>>
Tradesecret wrote: I can't seem to recall where Lot was ever held up as a paragon of virtue or righteousness. #8Can you think of anywhere in the Scriptures where Lot is help up as being a model for Jews or for Christians? I can't and I would never hold him up as so. #8Stephen wrote: 2 Peter 2:7 "and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless" .Tradesecret wrote: Good pickup Stephen, yes, I did forget about that passage.#9
"taught to memorise"
My arse.😂🤣😂🤣
More of your lies exposed Mr Memory man.
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@Tradesecret
What is perfection?
"I am not sure entirely what you mean [......]I have been taught to memorise the bible from very young. I have read the bible numerous times. I try and read the OT once every year and the NT twice a year. I know it reasonable well and can even read Hebrew and Greek".#52
that you still haven't worked out what god or the bible means when it uses the word perfect/perfection!!!?
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@Tradesecret
Why is religion so important to the believer ?I distinguish religion per se from Christianity. Yep, Christianity is a religion
Sorry Reverend "Tradey" but for all of your sermon, you didn't quite get around to actually telling us why religion is important to the believer. I can only assume that you must have been caught up in some kind of rapture while composing your speech that caused you to miss it altogether.
I appreciate that you would have a lot to say pro religion considering Christianity is most certainly a religion and has been a religion for over 2000 years, but you must have lost the actual question that launched this thread.
So why not whittle it down little and explain why religion is important to yourself.
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@Polytheist-Witch
The only interest is spouting hate at theists.
Nope.
you believe aliens created everything
Nope:
Stephen wrote: Well if you have ever looked into the ancient phenomena, you would find immediately that ALL religions speak of their so called "gods" coming from the sky. So I think they may "validate" each others religious beliefs of the origins of their "gods" .Polytheist-Witch, wrote: That is not true at all. In the Norse religion they come from a planet. #204
This would make them alien to Earth.
I believe the gods are beings who have evolved on their own worlds. #16
Now is all you have to do is confirm how far back do your own or these "Norse " alien gods go. Are they ancient , medieval or modern?
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@Bones
I enjoyed his back hands in the follow up vid. 👍
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@Polytheist-Witch
Doesn't seem like there's any reason for the atheist to be posting here
That is because you want to be let free to post your continuous double standards and continuous contradictions, Witch.
How old are your gods, Witch?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Your little rape joke with your buddy is even more offensive than normal for you congratulations.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Yep rape is hysterical and you support it, good for you two.
Steady now ,Witch. I find that accusation extremely offensive.
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@FLRW
Sorry Stephen, I tried to delete my comment like we talked about so we could make fun of her having dementia, but for some reason I couldn't do it.
😁
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@Polytheist-Witch
jerk.
I was far too busy reading all of your double standards and contradictions, Witch. But I accept your admonishment.
How old are your Pagan gods , Witch?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Zeus was a notorious rapist, why am I not surprised he's your favorite.
Who is it that you are suggesting the "Rapist" Zeus is a favourite of, Witch?
Has Zeus even been mentioned on this thread?
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@Tradesecret
What is perfection?Can we or anyone, or anything for that matter, ever be perfect Reverend "Tradey"?Great question Stephen.
Then answer it.
And like most things in the bible - it is not a simple answer. But before we can answer your great questions - we still need someone to define for us what perfection is.Does it mean "without flaw"? Does it mean " can never be flawed?" Does it mean better than best? Is it simply "really good"? Is perfection as you deem? Or is it as I deem? Is there an objective understanding or measure of perfection? Or is it simply a subjective standard? If a perfect being can do imperfect things - does that make it imperfect? Would a perfect human be able to do imperfect things or would a perfect being be unable to do imperfect things? Or if a perfect being cannot do imperfect things - yet they appear imperfect to an already imperfect being, is the thing imperfect or perfect? Can an imperfect being - a flawed being - really know whether what a perfect being is perfect or not? Surely the flawed being - having lost the ability to see perfectly is going to misunderstand whatever the perfect being is doing? Is the perception of an thing by an imperfect being which is done by a perfect being - going to look flawed or not flawed?
Typical!. I ask you one simple question and you have to come back with 14!!!! of your own.
Tell me Reverend "Tradey" have you not worked these questions out for yourself by now? After all of your years of studies and training and hard earned qualifications and accreditations in the theological field?. Are you unable to come up with a definition of what god or the bible means when he or it uses the word - perfect / perfection?
And after all of your proclaiming to us of your in-depth bible study...;
Here>>#52
"I am not sure entirely what you mean [......]I
have been taught to memorise the bible from very young. I have read
the bible numerous times. I try and read the OT once every year and
the NT twice a year. I know it reasonable well and can even
read Hebrew and Greek".#52
that you still haven't worked out what god or the bible means when it uses the word perfect/perfection!!!?
My view is that humans were created very good. And without flaw. But were they perfect?
And "without flaw" is universally accepted to mean perfect? ie flawless!
So without any more convoluted BS I am asking you can anyone ever be perfect? You appear to be saying NO; is that correct?
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@zedvictor4
Have you ever watched Sufi Muslims dancing....I think that it's absolutely enthralling.
I quite liked watching the lads having a bit of a knees up (literally), Vid lad. I was disappointed not to see the women there do their thing though.
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@zedvictor4
And I think the link appears to be somewhat in agreement with you, Vic lad.
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@Fruit_Inspector
The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; ~Ezekiel 18:20
Numbers 14:18. The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. KJV
He certainly appears to be a contradictory fellow.
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@Tarik
Ok. So you are saying that religion is important to the believer because of an irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell". I can accept that.How do you know the fear is irrational, unfounded, and superstitious?
Well are you about to rationalise this "fear of hell" and tell us its origins for us?
I don't think you are. I have said that it's a reasonable suggestion if you or they can prove there is such a place as "hell". Can you? Because you haven't offered anything "valid" that supports your own suggestion.
So off you trot, you are just arguing for arguments sake.
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