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@Tradesecret
What is perfection?
Can we or anyone, or anything for that matter, ever be perfect Reverend "Tradey"?
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@zedvictor4
When it comes to the point of conclusion we are all as ignorant as one another.
'It's not rocket science' and 'it's not brain surgery' are phrases regularly used to say that you do not think that something is very difficult to do or to understand.
But a new study suggests that rocket science and brain surgery may not be so difficult after all.
Researchers from UCL looked at the intelligence of rocket scientists and brain surgeons, and compared these professions to the general public.....
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@Tarik
Now it is obvious you have no interest in supporting your "fear off hell" superstition so its best we leave it there.Whether or not it’s a superstition is besides the point, fact of the matter is the believer believes in it hence why it’s important to them period.
Ok. So you are saying that religion is important to the believer because of an irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell". I can accept that.
Now tell me, where does this irrational, unfounded superstitious "fear of hell" originate. Do you know?
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Yes I have read that and more. It appears in that all the links all repeat the same thing. She isn't quite off the ground in her mission and has moved her "mosque" online.. I was hoping you had more from "your own sources" and or research or " extensive library"? You have nothing up to date then?
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@GnosticChristianBishop
female imam in France
Well is all I have managed to find on this female Imam Kahina Bahloul is that she "announced" in 2018, the creation of “Fatma Mosque”, a place of worship where men and women pray together, where prayers are led by both male and female imams, where sermons are delivered in French, and where non-Muslims are welcome.. That appears to be just about it. . not even a location for her mosque.
The reason for this appears to be that since "covid 19 most activities of this “inclusive mosque” have been transferred online". And she says, “A mosque is not a place, but a community,” she said, however, emphasising that they “continue to gather”.
I can only wish her the best of luck in here endeavours to "modernise Islam" an ideology that claims" it is the last and unalterable word of god". Do you have the latest on Kahina Bahloul ?
if you will accept my sources
I would be interested in reading your sources.
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@Tarik
So you keep saying, but I simply do not agree. Now it is obvious you have no interest in supporting your "fear off hell" superstition so its best we leave it there.
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I am interested in many things, it doesn't automatically follow that I believe everything said about that which I have an interested in.…Okay? I never conflated belief with interest you did
I haven't conflated anything. My mention of "belief" came on the back of, and in response to, your own comment here;
Tarik wrote:…So the avoidance of fear and the seeking of happiness (heaven) is important no?Stephen wrote: And are you saying then that happiness cannot be attained without a belief in a religion? #21
you ignored that question raised by your own comment.
Now:
Read this again. Like I have said and asked : You have put the importance of the believer believing in religion down to "fear of hell". Its a reasonable suggestion if you or they can prove there is such a place as "hell". Can you? Because you haven't offered anything "valid" that supports your own suggestion.
You haven't answered where the belief in the "fear of hell" even originated.
Or are you now saying that "the fear off hell" is not a belief?
If you cannot support your own suggestion then this leaves only superstition.
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Why Is Religion so Important To The Believer ?Not is religion a valid belief.And you have suggested it is "fear" but gone no further.I have simply asked why religion is important to the believer?You have put the importance down to "fear of hell". Its a reasonable suggestion if you or they can prove there is such a place as "hell". Can you? Because you haven't offered anything "valid" that supports your own suggestion............last I checked the question was Why Is Religion so Important To The Believer ? Not is religion a valid belief.That's correct. I didn't ask for anyone if religion is a valid belief or even for the believer to validate their belief. I don't care what someone does or doesn't believe. I simply asked why is religion so important to the believer.These are two contradicting statements, clearly if your asking a question pertaining to someones then that means you care about there belief period.
I don't agree. You are seriously confusing someone that cares about someone with someone being interested in something. I am interested in many things, it doesn't automatically follow that I believe everything said about that which I have an interested in.
Like I have said and asked : You have put the importance of the believer believing in religion down to "fear of hell". Its a reasonable suggestion if you or they can prove there is such a place as "hell". Can you? Because you haven't offered anything "valid" that supports your own suggestion.
You haven't answered where the belief in the "fear of hell" even originated.
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@GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop wrote:There is now a female Imam run Mosque in France and Laïcité in some form will be the future.Stephen wrote: And is she allowed to lead prayers for males?GnosticChristianBishop wrote: Yes, including the gays that they are not throwing off of buildings.
I see. I find this very interesting. You do have some evidence for this claim I expect? Of a female Imam leading prayers to male Muslims and homosexuals in the Mosque?
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@Tarik
Why Is Religion so Important To The Believer ?
Not is religion a valid belief.
And you have suggested it is "fear" but gone no further.
I have simply asked why religion is important to the believer?
You have put the importance down to "fear of hell". Its a reasonable suggestion if you or they can prove there is such a place as "hell". Can you? Because you haven't offered anything "valid" that supports your own suggestion.
...........last I checked the question was Why Is Religion so Important To The Believer ? Not is religion a valid belief.
That's correct. I didn't ask for anyone if religion is a valid belief or even for the believer to validate their belief. I don't care what someone does or doesn't believe. I simply asked why is religion so important to the believer.
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@Tarik
Where did the fear come from in the first place?I don’t know, .......you said you were going to answer it.
That's because I need to know that this "fear of hell" you mention actually exists and where it originated.
You have have said religion is important to believers because they are afraid of hell. But you cannot even tell me where the fear of "hell" originated. Not to mention where hell is located? Or if "hell" is real and exists.
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@Tarik
Can you post the full content you appear to have left out something about "they don't want to go to hell" , if I'm correct? I deleted your pm and to reply to this will not make sense.Yeah that sounds about right.
Ok then to give this its full context so anyone reading here can understand , in reply to my question ;
Why Is Religion so Important To The Believer ?
you have said:
Tarik, wrote: "they don't want to go to hell"Stephen wrote: That'll be fear then?Tarik wrote:…So the avoidance of fear and the seeking of happiness (heaven) is important no?
What fear? Where did the fear come from in the first place? And are you saying then that happiness cannot be attained without a belief in a religion?
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@Tarik
Stephen wrote: That'll be fear then?Tarik wrote:…So the avoidance of fear and the seeking of happiness (heaven) is important no?
Can you post the full content you appear to have left out something about "they don't want to go to hell" , if I'm correct? I deleted your pm and to reply to this will not make sense.
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@Polytheist-Witch
All you guys do here is complain about how Christians are in your life and ruining the world.
Nope. I usually am "complaining" about the truthfulness and the unreliability of the scriptures. But most recently about the comments you personally have made but cannot ever support them when challenged. .... funnily enough, Christians are exactly the same when when challenged of their comments and scriptures. Marvellous how much you pagans and Christians have in common, isn't it Witch.
Here have another go>.
You say above:
No god created the universe. Just their world or worlds.#12
Where are these worlds of the gods and how old are your own gods?
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Modernization kills all religions, and Laïcité will kill Islam.
Lovely. But I am not convinced. Bring back Jacques de Molay and his Knight Templars, I say.
There is now a female Imam run Mosque in France and Laïcité in some form will be the future.
And is she allowed to lead prayers for males?
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Religion as I described it, correct.
Do you mean ; as you described it - IT IS - correct?
You did not argue against any point.
There is nothing there to argue. You gave an opinion. And your opinion goes nowhere in explaining to me why religion is important to the believer except for saying "seeking fellowship", which in fact you appear to have agreed with me ; here
Stephen wrote: Is religion simply a crutch for the lost and lonely wishing for a sense of belonging?GnosticChristianBishop wrote: No. In a tribal species like ours, seeking fellowship is a natural instinct for 95% of us.Stephen wrote: Well isn't " seeking fellowship " the same as wishing for a sense of belonging?#11
It is not just opinion. It has facts and stats.
And these facts and states will be opinions of others in your own particular brand of religious belief, will they?
Again, you reject what is given without an argument against to indicate why you reject.
I have not rejected anything at all at the moment.
Go away till you learn how to debate.
Didn't take you long to get on your own high horse did it!? Stop being so childish. There are enough bible ignorant clowns here as it is.
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Some day the sheeple will know how to move a Jesus mind to a Christ mind like Gnostic Christians can.
Nice. I have read the available Gnostic Gospels and they do paint a different picture of the life and times of the Christ altogether .
There are no more inquisitors to silence us.
Unless Islam gets a foot - hold, which it already has in large swaths of Europe. We will all have a problem on our hands then. Islam has infiltrated many a high office in my own country and many European countries. And only a complete and utter bonehead will deny this to be the case.
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@GnosticChristianBishop
What it is, is why it is important.
So religion is important to the believer because it is "religion". That doesn't explain too much at all does it GCP?
Most of us have a sense of us being body and soul.Just as our material side wishes to emulate the fittest human, our spiritual side seeks a higher power, to confirm that what we do physically is correct.The religious aspect is not as important as the social need it caters to.
Well that is just an opinion of what you understand other believers to understand. Some believers may agree with your opinion and many may not. Christians cannot agree among themselves about the life and times of the Christ.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Atheist love telling people what to do, even other atheists. LOL Some people actually like interacting with others face to face.
Nope. that will be the organised THEIST religion that you insist on calling "myth".
And why do you keep ignoring my questions , Witch?
Oh don't worry, I'm f****** done.
Before you go AGAIN, just answer this for me ,Witch.
You say above:
No god created the universe. Just their world or worlds.#12
Where are these worlds of the gods and how old are your own gods?
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@Lunar108
and I would hate for atheism to end up becoming the same as those religions it's fighting against
That won't be anytime soon.
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@Lunar108
what I hate about organized religion is not the religion itself but how it becomes a tool ,
[A]It has always been a tool of control. In ancient times it was religiopolitical. One and the same thing. The priest made all the dictates, rules and laws .
and by a tool I mean a political tool for politicians , a tool for preachers and evangelists to fill their pockets by deceiving the poor , or a tool to divide and spread hatred between people ,
See [A] above.
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@GnosticChristianBishop
We are indeed like Gods
Well if the bible is in anyway to be believed, it agrees with you. And many times too.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Oh don't worry, I'm f****** done.
Before you go, just answer this for me ,Witch.
You say above:
No god created the universe. Just their world or worlds.#12
Where are these worlds of the gods and how old are your own gods?
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@Lunar108
those people are trying to turn atheism into a religion ,
And they will keep trying to.
and some even asking pastors about how to organize a religious assembly
Yes they depend on the Pastor to help them organise their own lives for them and to do all of their thinking (leading) for them. And this is what pastors and priest rely on. imo What is the point of Pastors and Priests otherwise?
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@GnosticChristianBishop
Is religion simply a crutch for the lost and lonely wishing for a sense of belonging?No. In a tribal species like ours, seeking fellowship is a natural instinct for 95% of us.
Well isn't " seeking fellowship " the same as wishing for a sense of belonging?
Our first tribe/religion is our families, then to kin, town, country etc.
Most of us grow up and leave our families, towns and even countries of birth in some cases.
Why is religion so important to the believer ?It is his extended family.
You have explained what it is but not why religion is important to the believer. Your answers above seems to agree that is all about a need for sense of belonging.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Most of the things that happened in myths did not happen on the Earth.
So where are these "mythical" things happening, then Witch?
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@Polytheist-Witch
I'm asking everyone who is a theist to completely avoid this one.
Very rude, Witch. But not unexpected coming from you. You that simply cannot accept that there are people that genuinely cannot accept your beliefs just on your say so.
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@Polytheist-Witch
you hate them. LOL.
I do wish you would stop this nonsense , Witch. You just love bandying that word "hate" around where there is none at every chance don't you, Witch. You use it so often its beginning to lose any meaning. Especially when it comes from you, probably the biggest "hater" on the whole of this forum.
I believe the gods are beings who have evolved on their own worlds. #16
That's interesting ,Witch, where about are these worlds?
You appear to have missed this again , Witch.
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@Polytheist-Witch
If you spend years debating theists and haven't grasped a basic concept of a calling you have failed.
I guess I have failed. That is why that seeing that you are the most recent to use the phrase " a calling to follow a god", why are you reluctant now to explain it to me? Or are you just like those other theist that simply likes to spout this ambiguous phrase but cannot explain it yourself when politely asked to do so?
What is "receiving a calling" ? What does it mean to receive a calling? Where does it come and from who does it come?. Can you explain, Witch?
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Is religion simply a crutch for the lost and lonely wishing for a sense of belonging?
Does it give them strength that they believe they otherwise wouldn't have?
Is it a social support structure that they cannot find elsewhere?
Why is religion so important to the believer ?
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@Polytheist-Witch
Even if you're raised in a religion you at some point have to feel a calling to follow that god or you don't anymore.
I keep hearing this phrase "a calling". "Tradey" Tradesecret spouts it often as have few other members here. But they all fail to explain what "receiving a calling" is or means or where it comes from. Can you explain, Witch?
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@Tradesecret
I think that they are human. They come in a range of types. They are mostly born into whatever they believe or don’t believe. Typically they have not thought through their ideas- same as theists.They are basically trying to live a good life- whatever that means. They want to be left alone. And to live peaceably with one another.But then there are those who have learnt a little bit more about their beliefs or non beliefs. These people are more dangerous because more knowledge gives them more confidence to try and upset the applecart. However mostly because more knowledge is not better knowledge this tends to end up doing more harm than the less informed.Then there are those who have better knowledge. These are wise people. They are not militant in their approach but ironically open to learning. And whether they are theist or atheist - they make the effort of growing with others.We should either aspire to the latter. Or stay in the first group. Unfortunately many people lice in the second group and never escape. Some do thankfully. But not all.Personally I like all people. Admittedly some better than others. I find it easier to dislike those in the second group.
You are suggesting above that there are good and bad religions. And are you saying then that your own chosen religion - Christianity - is a good religion and outweighs all other religions for truth and justice and should be the only religion for all of mankind?
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@Castin
I have been guilty, for instance, of being more critical of a stranger for doing something wrong than of a friend who did the same thing. Why?
I believe you answered your own question perfectly Castin. >>
"My friend is familiar and known to me, so I am more forgiving. [Than I would be and am to strangers]. I am invested in my friend, and my friend serves my emotional and psychological needs".
Nice post.
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@Tradesecret
It stands to reason in one sense that God - the creator of the universe has a plan for every individual
And you tell us that you had a "calling", was this gods plan for you? And now you have had your "calling" what do the consequences entail?
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@Lunar108
3.religions tend to be extremely homophobic take islam and christianity for example.perfect shape? a dude that cums from his @ss ?what are god's plans for this dude? , actually he is quite lucky to be born in our age if he was born like few centuries back he would probably be crucified or executed for having this medical issue. why ? homophobia .
Its more likely the case that he would be accused first of "having a demon" and then stoned or at least exiled as a "leper". This idiom was bandied around often. It could be applied to anyone and for any reason that didn't conform to the ` norm ` the rules or to anyone upsetting the status quo in those ancient times.
Jesus himself was believed to be " demon" possessed as was John the Baptist, simply for going against the grain.
Another idiom was used when speaking of someone being " dead" . The prodigal son is a good example. The wayward son was not "dead" at all. He just wished to go out and see the world for himself (and splash out his inheritance), so was said to be "dead" in the eyes of his father. When the wayward son returned his father proclaimed that his "son that was once dead and is now alive again"... and made a meal of it too by all accounts. So we see, this wasn't a miraculous physical resurrection from the "dead" to being alive again.
Luke 15:23 "Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate".
It appears that the New Testament bandies these words around often. Lazarus wasn't "dead", at all. He just lost his faith in the Jesus movement. He was wanted by the authorities, he was frightened and he wanted nothing more to do with it, so was said to have "died". To simplify this Jesus' circle considered themselves as "the living" and anyone outside this / his circle were simply referred to as the " dead". And this perfectly explains that centuries old enigmatic phrase said to have been spoken by Jesus himself " let the dead bury the dead". Christians simply cannot accept these biblical facts and want everything to be miraculous when they are nothing of the sort.
This raising from the "dead" can just as quickly be reversed too. A good example is the case of the husband and wife that didn't hand over all their money to the movement/church. Acts 5:1-20. This was an excommunication from the movement/church and nothing more.
There are no miracles in the New Testament. All of the stories that Christians like to claim as miracles all have reasonable and very earthly explanations.
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@Tradesecret
It is the best fit for all of the data available - and alone explains - not only why the tomb was empty,Been here before Reverend "Tradey". And empty to tomb is only evidence that a tomb was empty. It is not evidence that a dead rotting stinking days old corpse came alive again! And the "available data" is less than scant. No one actually seen or witnessed this "dead" man rise from the "dead" did they? They found the tomb open and empty, remember.But you should understand all this with you being a fully trained and qualified defence Lawyer, shouldn't you?And tell me, who rolled away the stone? Why did the stone need to be rolled away in the first place, when we are also being asked to believe that Jesus can walk through walls?Jesus died and rose again. The facts of history demonstrate this over and over again.
Lets see this"available data" and these "facts" that you keep spouting about. Who actually witnessed the dead stinking corpse of Jesus rise from the cold slab that he was supposed to have been laid on?
Deny it all you like.
Try answering those simple questions that have arisen from your own statements, Lawyer "Tradey". Or are you simply going to insist on ignoring the bleedin' obvious?
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@Tradesecret
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his Son so that whosoever trusts in him will have life and not death.Genesis 6:6-10 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7So the LORD said, "I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created-and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground-for I regret that I have made them.""So loved the world! eh, "Tradey".Absolutely. God regretted.
Stop it! God hated his creation so much he "repented"Genesis 6:6 KJV and destroyed it. These are biblical facts.
But God loved. Don't forget God loved.
I suppose you have more of that "very clear evidence" that god so loved mankind, don't you? The only time that your god mentions the word love is when he commanded Abraham to kill his son whom "he lovest" Genesis 22:2 KJV
" And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of."
I know you want to focus on the negative. But in doing so - you ALWAYS miss half the story. And the best bits at that.
Well simply lets see you show us positive side to your god. That will be job done, won't it. Speaking of Job, didn't your god sanction the death of TEN! of Jobs children?
Every Judge regrets sentencing people to prison.
For a defence lawyer your are absolutely brilliant of opening the door for the prosecution, aren't you Lawyer "Tradey".
The judge who decided John Albert Taylor should die for the rape and murder of an 11-year-old girl said he has no regrets about ordering the death penalty.https://www.deseret.com/1996/1/26/19221482/judge-has-no-regrets-for-ordering-death-penalty
More examples on request.
And we are talking death, not prison. You clown!
But he does that because he knows it is the right thing to do.
I see so sentencing all of mankind for the "sins" of the few is the right thing to do.
You only demonstrate sympathy for the wicked.
On the contrary. Like the Judge I mention above, I have no sympathy for anyone that slaughters the innocent. Grow up ffs!
for the Your heart seems to line up with the wicked. That Stephen is your problem.
Yes, well, that is just your own opinion of a faceless person that you have never met personally and only on a forum of the WWW, so the problem is your own, Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecret.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Gods are nothing more than evolved beings.
You may have hit the post with that comment, Witch.. Can you expand?
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@Tradesecret
Jesus died - but rose again.
A dead rotting stinking days old corpse came alive again! Stop being so silly!
The evidence for his resurrection is significant.
Lets see the "significant evidence" then. Is this the same as your "very clear biblical evidence" that you often spout about for other biblical stories but then fail to produce?
It is the best fit for all of the data available - and alone explains - not only why the tomb was empty,
Been here before Reverend "Tradey". And empty to tomb is only evidence that a tomb was empty. It is not evidence that a dead rotting stinking days old corpse came alive again! And the "available data" is less than scant. No one actually seen or witnessed this "dead" man rise from the "dead" did they? They found the tomb open and empty, remember.
But you should understand all this with you being a fully trained and qualified defence Lawyer, shouldn't you?
And tell me, who rolled away the stone? Why did the stone need to be rolled away in the first place, when we are also being asked to believe that Jesus can walk through walls?
all of the witness testimonies,
All conflicting too. We are spoiled for choice.
the disciples' martyrdom,
Some people dying for their beliefs(if not other reasons) proves exactly what to you?
and the exponential growth of the church for the next several hundreds of years.
Appealing to numbers as any type of evidence that a dead and rotting days old corpse coming back to life doesn't actually mean anything, Reverend "Tradey".
Must do better!
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@Tradesecret
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@Tradesecret
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his Son so that whosoever trusts in him will have life and not death.
Genesis 6:6-10 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7So the LORD said, "I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created-and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground-for I regret that I have made them."
"So loved the world! eh, "Tradey".
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@Tradesecret
God sent the Messiah.
Well he failed miserably as a "messiah" didn't he? But then again you wouldn't know what was expected of a Jewish messiah, would you Reverend "Tradey".
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@Polytheist-Witch
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@Polytheist-Witch
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@GnosticChristianBishop
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@rosends
Isn't each religion teaching that those who don't accept its theological paradigm are destined, by definition, to violent punishment?
Like I have said. One appears to leave punishment in "gods " hands in the " here after" , while the other is punishment of death in the hear and now. Personally I would rather take my chances in the "next world" as I have been quite attached to my head for sometime now, Rosi and don't like the idea of losing it on the whim of some barbarian claiming it is his duty to remove my head from my body because his moon splitting prophet or god has commanded it if I do not convert.
Quran
8:39
And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.
And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.
While in one, the purveyors are in this world, and in the other, in the next world, each looks at the "outsider" as unworthy on a grand scale.
And how these purveyors only look at the outsider as untrustworthy is where it should remain; in one's minds only.
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@Tradesecret
You just refuse to answer questions.Stop telling lies.I don't tell lies. Do you remember being asked about whether you were atheist or not? You refused to answer. It was not my question.
I believe I remember being asked that question. And I did answer it. I said simply that " I believe many of the stories in the bible minus the miracles . I also said that I believe many of the characters in the bible existed adding that I found the Old Testamant to be more truthful than the New Testament. So what that makes me is down to the individual outsider looking in".
So if that is your best example of me "not answering questions" you are a fkn none starter, you contradictory clown.
I posted and I can choose not to answer as well.I agree. And that wasn't my point, as you well know.No, your point was to try and ridicule me.
You manage to do that all on your own without any help from me, Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecret. 😂🤣😂🤣🤣
That CV of that you invented about yourself has to be the most ridiculous attempt at gaining a holier than thou status above anyone else on the WHOLE of this forum. Would you like me to remind you of it? Its very impressive to anyone that is stupid enough to believe it, Reverend "Tradey".🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
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@Outplayz
In general, i just want this to hurt his life, and that precedent set. I just want it to set a precedent that it destroys "your" life to do this. But i don't think this should be a prison thing... it's a desperation thing, but whatever, i've been past it for awhile now. The law should be a little bit more proportional to income. Teach him a lesson by making his income the same as a new college students graduates income, and let him go from there. I think that is prison enough... if you get what i mean. From there, hopefully he can "work his way back up" to forgiveness, which i think should be on the table too. Humans are idiots, we can't bury a human for one mistake... but we should bury those that continue to hurt society as a whole. That's evolution and survival. We don't need poison.
I understand what you are conveying here and agree in part, but the repercussions of this could still be devastating coming on the back of Floyd's death. I would like to believe it does end here for Smollett but I can't see the left; the Whoopi Goldbergs & and Joy Behars of the world letting this go anytime soon. (There is an appeal I've heard). And you won't see the likes them backpedalling anytime soon either. They will never admit how wrong they were and because the left never do. These two in particular will keep fanning the flames even if its only for their own benefit.
Nice thoughtful post though, Outplayz. A+1
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@Polytheist-Witch
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@rosends
Does Christianity teach an eternity in hell fire for not believing? Is that so different?
It may well do Rosi.
The difference here I believe is that it leaves judgment (hell fire) to god. What the Christ of the Christians doesn't command is for his followers to go out into the world and convert everyone "until all religion is for Allah" by the sword as does the god of Muslims.
Although it is well documented that Christians by their own vocation, have butchered hundreds of thousands in the name of their Christ/god.
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