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@oromagi
I'm not certain whether is Johnson is writing about himself.
Interesting post.
He did a follow up today:
saying : "In the last twenty-four hours, over a quarter of a million people have read the ‘I’m done‘ post. One cop wrote to me anonymously. These are their words.
I’m done too.
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@RationalMadman,
Read s-l-o-w-l-y " It all concerns a power struggle between the old and the new. This is nothing new in the history of mankind.
i.e there have and always will be power struggles when the celestial clock moves from one house to another. The age of the fish is over.
The bible shows it has happened before and so do the more ancient Mesopotamian epics. The Hebrews in the desert during exodus preferred their old god/s that they grew up with. They were sick of Moses barking orders, starving and walking for untold miles aimlessly with no clear destination and they were sick of his god too, so they resorted to making an image of their old god, a bull, the Egyptian apis bull/calf while Moses had his back turned and this blasphemy cost them over 60,000 lives .
If you have actually read the story of the exodus you will read the words "promised land" . Indeed promised is one thing, receiving it was a different story altogether. They had to fight the indigenous population for it in a bloody war costing the lives of everything and everyone occupying the " promised land2. they had to destroy those worshiping other gods and replace them with their own in a new age, the age of the Ram.
In revelation and other places in the NT scriptures Jesus was talking out the end of an age, more like the Ram and the ushering in of the Fish. The bible makes it clear and often
I have explained some of this to you already. As did Jaynesix. Yet you cannot even explain what it is that you are attempting to convey here on your own thread. Instead you start crying and stamping your feet when asked for some simply clarity.
You insists that YOU "don't owe your readers clarity" and expect us all to understand your clapuss trappuss concerning "omega and alpha males" and Satan actually being a submissive dancing pixie from "the other end"
Your thread is nonsense and made worse by your own lack of cooperation to engage anyone with clarity. All very irrational behavior for someone calling themselves "Rational", mad or not!
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@RationalMadman,
Where is it proven that Jesus is the one it's referring to and not God?
You really do not have a clue as to what is going on in these scriptures do you. It all concerns a power struggle between the old and the new. This is nothing new in the history of mankind, the bible makes that clear as does many Mesopotamian epics written hundreds of thousands of years before the bible was even thought about.
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the time is near.
As Janesix and myself keep insisting. Revelation is all about time. The end of the old age and the beginning of the new age.
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@Polytheist-Witch
The issues right now are more training bad ideas than bad cops. This was well written. I hope people take time to read the whole thing.
A+1, Witch. I couldn't agree more.
"I’m done with cops being told they are somehow lesser without a degree and that instincts are bias and bad. That experience and street knowledge is discriminatory. I’m done with the lies that the College of Policing is on our side. That the courts value and support us. That the IOPC isn’t an insidiously untrustworthy organisation out to get us. That the HMIC understands policing."
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@ madman
why doesn't everyone conform to what I want instead?!'
Where is it that he say's anything resembling that comment? Is it your imagination running marathons again.
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Extract:
"I’m done with grandstanding cops, dancing for YouTube, wearing rainbows as self promotion, kneeling for a twitter photo, lecturing the public about things that shouldn’t concern us, forgetting we are the law police, not the public morals police, Im done with them doing anything other rather than actual policing. I’m done with the false narrative that suggests this is the norm and that all cops are more interested in being woke social workers than doing their job. A false narrative we have facilitated by allowing this self indulgent, shameless self promotion of a few individuals, to proliferate."
Read the full column;
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@zedvictor4
In the U.K we have moved on considerably in the last 200 years.....Perhaps the same cannot be said for other parts of the World.
That was so true up until very recent times when BLM (UK) decided to set back race relations by 50 years, and now you cannot get through the day without "race" being an issue at every turn. I read recently that apparently it is now "racist" for a white man to marry a black woman! I am too pissed off to bother to find the clip.
A police officer caused the death of a black man in the USA and " black lives matter" all around the world accompanied by riots, looting and murder .
A police officer intentionally murdered a white women ( Sarah Everard) and some Baroness bint suggested in the house of Lords that a curfew be placed on all men after 6 pm. You couldn't make this shite up!
"I would argue that at the next opportunity for a bill that is appropriate, I might actually put in an amendment to create a curfew for men on the streets after 6pm, which I feel will make women much safer, and discrimination of all kinds would be lessened".
BLM and many high profile blacks people (Anthony Oluwafemi Olaseni Joshua, OBE a British professional boxer being one) have devalued and cheapened the word "racism"
It will be interesting to see if Joshua held onto his millions WHITE supporters in any of his future fights after his anti white remarks.
" Joshua said: 'Show them where it hurts. Abstain from spending your money in 'their' shops and economies, and invest in black-owned businesses.' "
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@coal
Just about an hour ago the Catholic Church decreed there would be no blessing for same sex marriages.saying : "ruling that partnerships between homosexuals are “not ordered to the Creator’s plan.”...I don't think anyone was surprised by this.
Well the Pope said as much as he could without actually quoting Leviticus 20:13 , & Romans 1:26-27, didn't he? He wouldn't want to show the "homosexual community" the words of god to be anti homosexual in any way, now would he?
The Pope wouldn't want to point out that the homosexual "iniquities" going on in the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah was just too much for him to bare so wiped those cities from the face of the planet saving only one righteous man and his family.
Genesis 18: 20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”
Genesis 19: 24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land.
He wouldn't want to point out that maybe in the eyes of god and the church the world is being turned into a new Sodom and Gomorrah ? Who knows, this may all be yet another of gods new plans, of yet another new covenant concerning "the great reset" that all western leaders are ramming down our throats.?
It is the more interesting that he ruling comes just days after the Popes return from visit to Iraq. Pope Francis, is the first sitting pope to visit Iraq (the land of Sodom and Gomorrah, of Abraham and Lot) attended a meeting in the wilderness with the powerful, Shiite Muslim religious cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.
We all know the feeling towards homosexuality in the Muslim world and the punishment .
God only knows what they had to discuss out there in the desert land where those cities of "iniquity" once stood..
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@BrotherDThomas
Where are the Hell bound Catholic pseudo-christians within this forum that usually come forth on other Christian topics with zest and fortitude?
Ye of little faith , Brother. Give them a chance. They maybe dusting off ancient Greek parchments as we speak looking for another translation to justify this Papal document.
The document went on to say that “God does not and cannot bless sin”, adding: “He blesses sinful man, so that he may recognise that he is part of his plan of love and allow him to be changed by him.”https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/15/catholic-church-cannot-bless-same-sex-unions-vatican-decrees
Interesting it is Brother that the Pope tells us "he blessed the sinful man" while Leviticus tells us this particular kind of "sinful man" should be put to death.
"If a man also lie with mankind, As he lieth with a woman, Both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death,; their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)
It maybe the case that the words " shall surely be put to death" in the ancient Greek language actually mean "he blessed the sin full man for his "homosexual abhorrent practices".?
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@Polytheist-Witch
They don't technically bless divorced couples who remarry. Fortunately you don't need the church to have a legal marriage.
We don't need the church for anything at all, Witch.
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@ludofl3x
The document went on to say that “God does not and cannot bless sin”, adding: “He blesses sinful man, so that he may recognise that he is part of his plan of love and allow him to be changed by him.”https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/15/catholic-church-cannot-bless-same-sex-unions-vatican-decrees
ludofl3x, wrote: I found it interesting the article said the Holy See says "God does not AND CANNOT bless sin."
That will be religious double speak. We can read clearly in Leviticus that the lord says homosexuality is abhorrent and an "abomination" .
"If a man also lie with mankind, As he lieth with a woman, Both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death,; their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)
So from that we can clearly see that god finds homosexuals AND homosexuality to be an abomination.
But you may have heard most Christians on this forum try to back peddle on this issue by telling us that god is not anti homosexual but is anti homosexual "acts and practices", while ignoring the fact that homosexuals - according to scripture - and everything else in the universe were created by him/god. To this charge the Christian will proclaim that - "god didn't create anything bad or evil", but again scripture itself contradicts this; Isaiah 45:7 being just one example :
" I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things" . Isaiah 45:7 King James Version
Is that one of those things that is beyond God's power? Is it possible for God to redefine what qualifies as a sin?
That is a good question and it appears that god - according to Paul - does move the goal posts.... when it suites him of course. i.e one can get to heaven without believing in Jesus! Yes ,ludofl3x, they kept that little gem quiet haven't they. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5635-no-one-comes-to-the-father-except
But as I explained above. I am sure that there will be the christian student of ancient languages that will be along shortly to inform us all that the Pope doesn't understand these verses in their original ancient Greek and has taken them out of "context", but on request to put them into context for us - and the Pope - will fail immediately.
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@BrotherDThomas
Stephen,YOUR HYPOCRITICAL QUOTE BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH: "While the decree said " the Christian community and its Pastors must welcome with respect and sensitivity persons with homosexual inclinations" , the unions cannot be blessed."
Yes the churches quote, brother.
BULLSHIT! The Hellbound Catholic Church is directly going against Jesus' true words within the scriptures as explicitly shown below by accommodating the homosexuals with respect to begin with, what's new? NOTHING!"If a man also lie with mankind, As he lieth with a woman, Both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death,; their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)
Yes, the churches hypocrisy stands out a mile. Your head must be spinning , Brother. So , going by this hypocritical standard we may as well tear up the Old Testament. After all, if they church wishes to disregard one part of the Old Testament, we may as well discard the lot.
"For this cause God gave them up into vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, Leaving the natural use of the woman, Burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, And receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. . . who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death." (Romans 1:26-27)
And tear up the New Testament too for the same reasons.
How can Jesus' inspired words say the above that homos should be MURDERED and are worthy of DEATH, and that the Catholic Church at the same time proffers that they are to show respect to ungodly people that practice homosexual sex and same sex marriage?! Can the Church spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E? Sure they can!
I am sure some Christian will be along shortly to tell us that the Pope "doesn't understand Greek" and is taking those biblical anti homosexuality verses that you have highlighted "out of context". Tick, tock, tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock......
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Just about an hour ago the Catholic Church decreed there would be no blessing for same sex marriages.
saying : "ruling that partnerships between homosexuals are “not ordered to the Creator’s plan.”...
While the decree said " the Christian community and its Pastors must welcome with respect and sensitivity persons with homosexual inclinations" , the unions cannot be blessed.
The ruling comes just days after the Popes return from visit to Iraq. Pope Francis, is the first sitting pope to visit Iraq (the land of Abraham) attended a meeting in the wilderness with the powerful, Shiite Muslim religious cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. God only knows what they had to discuss out there in the desert but I am reminded of the pointless biblical story of god via "the spirit" sending Jesus - his son- into the desert to be tempted and propositioned and to come to some kind of agreement- that failed by all accounts..
Who knows what they discussed, there were only two present at the time, is all we have of the account is some made up nonsense where Jesus prevails, well he would wouldn't he?
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Well then without you making yourself clear instead of talking biblical bollocks, it seems you are on your own with your exaggerated and unbalanced imagination.
I have told you. Revelation is all about time and an end to the "age". It has nothing to do with the gender, male , female or transsexual beings of any type or anyone in between. .It has nothing to do with a god being one thing and Satan being another.
Its all in your head. Mind where you bang it!
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I have already explained some in other threads I made dedicated to it.
Dedicated to what?
No, I don't owe you a massive list of specifics,
But you do. This is your thread and you should explain yourself
it's for you to find out for yourself.
So your idea of starting a thread is to pose a question without specifics and hope everyone reading should know immediately wtf you talking about?
You seem to think you can just demand 'prove it'
I have asked for clarification, I HAVE NOT asked you to "prove" anything!
and a stranger owes you the time and effort spent on doing so.
You owe me, THE READER, clarification if you wish to engage with me. But it appears that what it is you are imagining is one thing, and what is actually being related and conveyed in Revelation in completely another. Arse FROM elbow, spring to mind.
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there's many more clues if you carefully read about Satan and realise Lucifer is a different character entirely.
Let us see these clues and from where you got them.
Do you even know what the 'alpha' in any context is?
Yes. And in the biblical context within which we are talking it is referring to nothing else but time.
What you imagine it to be referring to is neither here nor there.
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So you can't address those simple questions raised by your own ambiguous statements, yet are stopping short of calling me dumb. Oh well, that explains just about everything doesn't it!?
I 'll attempt to make it easier for you.
I know Jesus/ God called himself "the Alpha and Omega" in the bible, at Revelation. Revelation 22:13/Revelation 1:8 Is this where you have read it?
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God is the alpha male of all reality in the Bible.
It mentions nothing of "alpha male" but simply implies male via words such as ""he, and "father" and "my fathers house" ,etc. so it then is generally accepted to be a male deity.
The question is why he also implied he's the other end of the hierarchy too... That's Satan.
Where does "he" imply that?
And what do you mean by "the other end"?
And why do you believe "the other end is Satan"?
Where did you first read of the Alpha and the Omega?
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RationalMadman,
The Judeo-Christian god is male, the abrahamic God is consistently seen as masculine by the vast majority of believers.
I don't believe anyone is disagreeing with that. It was you that brought gender into the mix and related omega males to biblical verse/s that didn't even mention gender. The passage/s to which you are inferring are concerned with time and not gender. The whole point of Revelation is all to do with time, a specific time, and in its particular case the "end time".
here :#1 "How can God be both an alpha male and omega male?" <<< Nowhere does the bible say that Jesus - or god - is calling himself is both or any.
Where did you get the idea that Jesus /god was calling himself "male Alpha" and "male Omega"?
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Interesting it is that it is usually the loud mouth, high and mighty, holier than thou majority of Christians that have absolutely nothing of substance to add to any conversation concerning his/her own belief system and or its scriptures, but prefers to snipe and agitate from the sidelines rather than address the point and the question raised the OP.
This, I believe comes as a result of not having read the ambiguous biblical half stories for themselves.
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@janesix
I don't know if there will be a new "god" for this age. Aquarius is represented by a man. So I think atheism may rule for Aquarius.
"Aquarius it represent by a man"...... pouring water over the earth, Jane. The Water Bearer.
And lest we forget. We have a good handful of men on the planet certainly acting as gods, do we not.
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So... If there is a beginning and an end and they are both God, God is not truly eternal, time is just looped and also thateans free wikl os a lie as is God's omnipotence as God is enslaved to the timeline that repeats.
There are 12 "heavenly" houses. Or in todays parlance, 12 houses to the zodiac.
Each house has a beginning and an end but not all house ARE the beginning and the end or one full cycle of the zodiac. Only the first recorded house can claim to be that.
Only one of these houses can claim that position.. that will be the first house when time was first recorded.
I have explained. >>>>>IF<<<<<<< Aries/ the Ram EVER was the first recorded house and Jesus belonged to that house, then he and his house could claim to be the first (house) and the last (house). Each house has its god and its own representative (son of god) on earth. I wouldn't expect any Christian thicko to believe this because the majority haven't read the scriptures for themselves. These are pointers that the Pastors and Priests keep from their flock.
When these transitions happen the new incoming house always attempt to erase the history of old house. This is clearly shown throughout ancient history. Status defaced, and toppled, libraries burned to the ground and mass murder of the adherents to the old god. Moses murdered thousands of his own people because they preferred the gods they had knew and grew up with in Egypt.
This I believe is happening now in the modern era as we speak. I would bet that you didn't even bother to read that chapter I put up for you where Jesus tell them what "signs" to look for, have you?
Ask yourself, why is there no history of the years of Greek occupation of the holy land in the bible, when Alexander the Great had conquered and Greece had occupied the middle east including Israel and Palestine for nearly 700 years.
Matthew 24: 6-8 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains.
revelation takes this a little further talking of the extortionate cost of food , disease and receiving your mark.
What one needs to understand is that when these heavenly transitions from one house to another are about to happen the outgoing house/god doesn't want to relinquish power.. It is an old story that can easily be realised if you read of the times from BEFORE the bible was even thought about.
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Omega males
No mention of male/s , is there?
The next line explains its meaning. " the beginning and the end". This is reference to the star clock or Precession of the "heavenly" houses. So, it is reasonable to say that at the beginning of recorded time (for argument sake) Aries, Jesus belonged to the first recorded house, he was called the " the good shepherd that laid down his life for the sheep" a few times , wasn't he? John 10:11.
One can think of it as 12 o'clock midnight starts and finishes one day. It is the beginning and the end, the first (hour) and the last (hour). The alpha and the omega. The first letter and the last letter.
The Jesus story appears to be about ushering in the new house (Pieces) and new age , peacefully or otherwise.. This is why when Jesus comes on the scene , there are many references to" fish", and "fishermen" and being "fed by fish". "I will make you fishers of men", so the story goes, Matthew 4:19. The sign of Christianity is the fish. I wonder do the illiterate Christians that have never read the scriptures for themselves even know that there is likely a new god on the block as we appear to have made or are at the very end of making another transition from the "age" fish to the "age" of water?
Matthew24:3 " As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”<<<<<< It couldn't get more clearer, could it? This why Jesus was able to say that some of them will live to see and witness "the signs".
Interesting that Pope Francis, is the first sitting pope to visit Iraq (the land of Abraham) only some days ago and had attended a meeting in the wilderness with the powerful, Shiite religious cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. God only knows what they discussed in private.
I am reminded of biblical story of god via "the spirit" sending Jesus - his son- into the desert to be tempted and propositioned and to come to some kind of agreement- that failed by all accounts.. Who knows what they discussed, there were only tow present at the time, is all we have of the account is some made up nonsense where Jesus prevails.
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@zedvictor4
To be honest.Shamans and Faith healers were and are nothing new.It's not surprising that they get a mention in Tales from Arabia.
Indeed Vic. And Luke: 49 shows clearly too that these characters were ten a penny and not the only magicians on the block with super powers. It is not mentioned where this particular super hero acquired his super powers but as sure as there is shit in a goose he was clearly witnessed performing the same mighty works and "miraculous powers" as Jesus, but we do have to keep in mind the superstitious times that the poor and literate were living in.
There was also too the Great Simon we can read about in Acts 8:9-24. He was revered as the " Great Power of God " by many of the Jews (except his rivals of course) but to his opponents he was nothing but a lowlife "sorcerer". Well he would be wouldn't? The Great Simon, wasn't in with the in-crowd as Luke: 49 makes perfectly clear, one has to be " one of us ".
He wasn't one of the in-crowd as spoken about in Luke: 49. It's a similar to when the priests of pharaoh were regarded as mere magicians but Moses tricks were miracles of god. Exodus 7:10-13.
Another example of a more famous character is where it is suggested too in the bible that John the Baptist was also a man who performed "signs and wonders" when Herod of all people - who had never seen nor met Jesus before his trials, but had certainly met John the Baptist, on hearing about Jesus and his miracles, believed it to be John the Baptist come back from the dead to haunt him.
And said unto his servants, This is John the Baptist; he is risen from the dead; and therefore mighty works do shew forth themselves in him."Matthew 14:2
and he said to his attendants, "This is John the Baptist; he has risen from the dead! That is why miraculous powers are at work in him."Matthew 14:2
So we see then that John the baptists was then yet another "miracle worker". I do at times have to wonder if there was a serious rivalry between John the Baptist and Jesus? They seemed to be in competition from before birth . But of course this wouldn't be nothing new for since the days of Adam close relatives and brothers in particular have always been rivals. It is a consistent pattern throughout the whole of the bible and worthy of a thread all of its own.
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Who is cherry picking?
It appears that the dumb theist cannot accept that there was another wonder worker walking around and doing as Jesus did and wants to brush this awkward anomaly under the carpet, using the same lame excuse of "contex". When don't the theist ever not claim this bullshit when they are confronted with these little anomalies.
All the verses are there to read, so once again, let him claiming that these verses have been taken out of context simply put them into context? Or stay off the thread.
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Less than half way through Luke's gospel there are two verses that appear to simply come out of nowhere that have nothing to do with the preceding story lines in the chapter and neither the succeeding lines. The two verses are sandwiched between _ an argument that had started among the disciples as to which of them would be the greatest, at Luke 9: 46-48, and the rejection of Jesus from a Samaritan village. Luke 9: 51-55.
Luke: 49 “Master,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us.”
50 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”
50 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”
Who was he?
Did Jesus - god - son of god - know who this "someone" was?
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@Benjamin
Hypocrite: 1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrite]
I notice that you omitted to mention this part >>"a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings".
Give me 1 example of Jesus being a hypocrite. I'll wait.
Here are two:
(1)
Luke 6:35 New International Version; "But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back."
Luke 14:26 New international Version ; "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple.
Matthew 10:34-35 New International Version, “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn "a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—.......
(2)
Matthew 19:21 "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Mark 14:4-7 "Some of those present were saying indignantly to one another, “Why this waste of perfume? It could have been sold for more than a year’s wages and the money given to the poor.” And they rebuked her harshly.
“Leave her alone,” said Jesus. “Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me".
Jesus had surrounded himself with the rich and influential but not once will we read of him telling any of them to sell all they have and give it all to the "poor". quite the opposite, he appears to have been a scrounger and spongers off the rich, certainly off of " the women of substance" in his movement.
Wisdom of Jesus? Well, you know that he is on to something when there is even a thing as Christian_atheism, that rejects God but follows Jesus's ethics and wisdom.
That hasn't explained what you call "Jesus` wisdom". So you cannot explain what you have claimed. What had Jesus done or said that you considered "wise" and that no other clean living upstanding atheist citizen could do.
And neither can anyone explain the angel Gabriel's prediction failed to come to fruition either. Do you remember that blinder ?
Luke1:26-38
32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David”.
Sorry to sound so crude but being hung on two pieces of wood by only three nails is far from a throne of any description isn’t it? Especially the “great throne covered with ivory and overlaid with fine gold” of King David,> > > 1Kings 10:18
Gabriel mentions nothing to Mary the mother of this very special“immaculately” conceived child about his failed mission on earth and of him suffering such a barbaric and violent death. Why did he keep this from her? And what about the- all of a sudden absentee“father”, Joseph? He seems to have been written out of the story altogether and less informed about his child god’s failed mission and barbaric early demise?
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Give me 1 example of Jesus being a hypocrite. I'll wait.
Here are two:
(1)
Luke 6:35 New International Version; "But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back."
Luke 14:26 New international Version ; "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple.
Matthew 10:34-35 New International Version, “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn "a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—.......
(2)
Matthew 19:21 "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Mark 14:4-7 "Some of those present were saying indignantly to one another, “Why this waste of perfume? It could have been sold for more than a year’s wages and the money given to the poor.” And they rebuked her harshly.
“Leave her alone,” said Jesus. “Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me".
Jesus had surrounded himself with the rich and influential but not once will we read of him telling any of them to sell all they have and give it all to the "poor". quite the opposite, he appears to have been a scrounger and spongers off the rich, certainly off of " the women of substance" in his movement.
Wisdom of Jesus? Well, you know that he is on to something when there is even a thing as Christian_atheism, that rejects God but follows Jesus's ethics and wisdom.
That hasn't explained what you call "Jesus` wisdom". So you cannot explain what you have claimed. What had Jesus done or said that you considered "wise" and that no other clean living upstanding atheist citizen could do.
And neither can anyone explain the angel Gabriel's prediction failed to come to fruition either. Do you remember that blinder ?
Luke1:26-38
32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David”.
Sorry to sound so crude but being hung on two pieces of wood by only three nails is far from a throne of any description isn’t it? Especially the “great throne covered with ivory and overlaid with fine gold” of King David,> > > 1Kings 10:18
Gabriel mentions nothing to Mary the mother of this very special“immaculately” conceived child about his failed mission on earth and of him suffering such a barbaric and violent death. Why did he keep this from her? And what about the- all of a sudden absentee“father”, Joseph? He seems to have been written out of the story altogether and less informed about his child god’s failed mission and barbaric early demise?
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@Benjamin
The wisdom of Jesus sure exposes hypocrites even to this day.#49
The hypocrisy of Jesus (and the bible)rubs off on his followers too.
And can explain what it is you mean by "the wisdom of Jesus"? Keeping in mind that he failed miserably to complete his mission as the prophesised Messiah?
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@ronjs
Cancel culture and darwin Author:ronjs,13 hours ago.I have not heard of any statues or images of Darwin being cancelled which is strange considering his racist writings. Maybe i have missed it so if anyone knows of any instances, let me know.......and wondered if he was a target of the cancel culture.
Don't you know? Haven't you even attempted to research the question- your own question - for yourself?
And haven't you already created a thread asking a similar or the same question that ran for 3 pages with 71 comments including only 10 of your own?
Yes, here we are
Darwin images Author:ronjs,8 months ago"With all the statues and images being destroyed I haven't heard about any Darwin images being cancelled.His books and other writings are about as racist as anything I've read."
0/10 Must try harder!
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@BrotherDThomas
This is a Religion Discussion Forum, and NOT a runaway from Religion Discussion Forum, get it? You act as though you want to be equal to the #1 Bible runway FAUXLAW!
And he's is a student in ancient Greek!!!!
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@BrotherDThomas
The #1 agenda for any TRUE Christian like myself, or for the “plethora” of dumbfounded of the Bible pseudo-christians that frequent this forum, is to preach the inspired words of Jesus the Christ, period!“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit …”. (Matthew 28:19)“Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.” (2 Timothy 4:2)
Exactly my point, Brother. I believe I offered up a good example of a bible ignorant pseudo-christian at Benjamin's request.
A Pastor and Chaplin that tells us " I do not have an agenda. "#20 can only be described as a pseudo-christian.
One would have thought that is it is impossible for a serving Pastor and Chaplin not to have heard the commands of the Great Commission from Jesus himself and would have known by heart those commands spoken at ;
Matthew 28:19
2Timothy 4:2
And
Mark 16:15
Its all a bit like forgetting one is student of ancient Greek, me thinks , Brother.
The above truth is probably one of the reasons that Tradesecret is not present at this time within the forum
I hadn't noticed Brother.
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@janesix
Well I agree somewhat, pretentious people deserve a smack in the face, no matter what their beliefs. Can I say that?
Indeed, Jane.
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@janesix
Lofty beliefs are a luxury of the well-fed
And they don't come more pretentiously loftier than those who believe that because they have a faith and a belief in a god are somehow more high, mighty and holier-than-thou than those that do not have a faith or belief in a god.
If I am considered to be " in the gutter" because of my lack of faith and disbelief in a god , it will still leave me looking down on those pretentious pricks that do.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Know more about Judaism, Christianity and Islam then Christians. FIFY
Yes, that's what I said , Witch: Religion. And in this particular case I was singling out Christianity in particular as a follow up to what the Brother had to say concerning CHRISTIANITY AND the "pseudo-christian is a FAKE Christian" . HERE>>>>>#11 BrotherDThomas
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@BrotherDThomas
@Benjamin
A pseudo-christian is a FAKE Christian in name only where they DO NOT follow ALL of Jesus’ inspired words within the scriptures, ............
...................and they have never read the scriptures for themselves but have had them spoon fed to them and have been steered away from the more problematic verses. Most Christians are dunces when it comes to understanding and explaining their own scriptures. They simply "pass on" what it is they have been told as this Pastor and Chaplin freely admits:
"I in most parts are merely passing on the teaching of what i have received. Ido not have an agenda. I really don't". #20
Did you notice how stupid that statement is from the horses mouth. This pastor says he simply passes on but he " has no agenda". <<< this proves my point. Because every person of the cloth has an agenda. A religious agenda to go out into the world and preach the gospel, . This is pure bible ignorance from a Pastor and Chaplin, no less.
He obviously hadn't heard of Great Commission where god himself instructs his disciples ;
Mark 16:15 ""Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation."
Survey: Atheists, Agnostics Know More About Religion Than Religious
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@Dr.Franklin
You are lying again now doc, because you have run out of replies and answers so are left with nothing else but to tell bare faced fkn lies. Just like the rest of the cretinous mob here.
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@Benjamin
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@Dr.Franklin
You are going in circles, I rebuttal but you keep repeating
Nope.
I am repeating the questions that you keep saying you have answered when you clearly haven't.
Here
You have even admitted that Thomas did disbelieve but then failed miserably to explain to us why Jesus appeared to a disbeliever , and a disbeliever that should have known better after witnessing all the "wonders and miracles", and not appear to believers and disbelievers today?
Why no reprimand of Thomas for being "of little faith"?
You haven't explained how Thomas was allowed to "tempt the lord" against the strict command concerning tempting the lord? Deuteronomy 6:16 . Matthew 4:7
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@FLRW
It is intelligent man that has made life liveable in such a poorly designed world. It in now up to Intelligent Man to embrace Humanism.
10/10
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@rosends
I guess one can chalk it all up to figures of speech but it is impossible to know if people back then used these phrases in an idiomatic fashion or not.
Well, in the case of the "lost dead son" unless one believes that a person that has been dead for days , weeks , months or years can be brought back to life then there is no other answer imo. Besides, there is no mention of anyone finding he that was "lost" (he appears to have "found" himself) and there is no mention of anyone raising him from the "dead" either. So I wonder how he managed that trick? I am sure you get my point, rosi.
The gospels are either complete fabrication or there are explanations to these stories that appear on the surface to be total and utter bollocks to the modern reader.
My only point is that within Jewish thought, there really isn't a precedent which would lead one to using that as a figure of speech.
Are you saying that in Jewish thought, vocabulary or literature, idioms are never used? Not even - a drop in the bucket. Meaning: “a very small, insignificant amount.”? Or
the apple of one’s eye.? What about this verse that is talking about sexual intercourse: Genesis 4:1 King James Version
I don't know Greek
Ah yes the Greek translation excuse used by many Christians when one of these gospel anomalies jumps up and slaps them in the face.
When Christians attempt to spring the problem of the atheist not "understanding Greek" , ancient or otherwise, the theists obviously do not realise that they are rendering all English written bibles unreliable and not even worth picking up. This is how blind ,backward and desperate they are to "prove" their scriptures the "unalterable " word of god and cannot be mistaken or at fault.
There have been many occasions here where the "Greek" excuse has been used in attempts to defend the "holy scriptures" that are written in English. But given the opportunity to correct certain English written words, sentences or whole verses in the English written bible, they simply fail, every time: recent example available on request.
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@rosends
Would this mean that the answer to your question in the original post is "they didn't think Jesus was possessed because they were speaking using euphemisms and idioms"?
That is what I believe. As I said, in the example, the long lost dead son was neither dead nor lost. He found his way back home and he was alive when he did so. It was case of him simply being wayward or rebellious and disrespectful in his fathers house. And as all teenagers do, they think they know better and are old enough to do what they like. But the lost dead son came to his senses eventually and returned home.
The brothers complained but the father said ;
Luke 15:32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”
Lazarus wasn't "dead" he had just lost faith in the movement or was frightened or both. These were high stakes, lives were in danger. It appears that he preferred to return to live among the "dead" rather than to live with Jesus among the "living".
Jesus neither had a demon or was he mad. What he was doing and saying - in secret - was against all the rules. He was mad to try it and his mother - among others - must have wondered what had ever "possessed" him to attempt such a thing as to claim to be messiah and heir to the throne and the high priesthood.
Two of my own nephews "went off the rails" it didn't make then locomotives.
But these are only my opinions.
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I believe all of these expressions of "having a demon" and being a " leper" being "blind" or "deaf" or a "sinner" or "dead" are simply expressions that are natural to a native speaker of those ancient times and particularly those that belonged to the Jesus movement and are stages of initiation into his circle.
Ex: The story of the long lost "dead son".Luke 15:11-32 that was neither lost nor dead in reality.
In other words - idiomatic
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@BrotherDThomas
It appears in this case Brother , that Bringerofrain's only proof to these two anointing stories actually being one and the same event are the very verses that I posted at post #1
in the OP. Which are contradictory and do not compliment one another in anyway but for the actual anointing performed by a woman.
The anointing is the only thing that these two stories actually have in common and all other details cancel out one another. If we are to take them as read and literally true and as being one single event - then they raise a few awkward questions, don't they Brother? And the only way around these awkward problems is for Christians to have to face a few facts.
For instance,
Matthew 26:6-13
6 Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper,
7 There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.
8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?
9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.
10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.
11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.
12 For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial.
13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
from 13 the story goes into the story of Judas` betrayal.
Here's a clue. Leprosy isn't that contagious. It is contracted only if you come into close and repeated contact with nose and mouth droplets from someone with untreated leprosy.
BUT! a recent review of leprosy in the journal PAIN discusses how acute (severe) and chronic pain are major symptoms of leprosy. Acute pain may be a presenting symptom, even before skin lesions develop, and may persist even after treatment.
The very first painful treatment for this disease only came about in the 1940's and the only other known cure for it was through the power of Jesus, if the scriptures are to be believed? Which - and please take note - I do not. I am as you say, an " hell-bound atheist".
Do you see my point, Brother. Of course you do. You are the only Christian here honest enough to realise that while Judas and the disciples were whining and arguing about the cost of the anointing oils and the "poor", and Jesus was having his head and feet bathed in this expensive perfume, and tears were flowing all over the place, and Jesus was having his feet kissed and wiped with a woman's hair and another woman was moaning about who was going to do the dishes, all this time, SIMON, the leper must have been writhing in excruciating pain.
Not in any single one of these versions will we read that Jesus had cured Simon of this dreadful excruciating disease before, during or after the event.. WHY?
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@Dr.Franklin
didn't take you for one of the few theist cretins here,Doc You are now simply following suit and arguing for arguments sake now Doc. Or you are lonely for attention.
You have now made a claim. Lets see you produce the proof that many people showed support at Jesus's trial by Pontius Pilate. Show us where the bible states that "many people" pleaded for Jesus the messiah to be released instead of Jesus Barabbas?why should i take your claim seriously?
I have made no claims Doc, but you have. Lets see you support it.
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@Dr.Franklin
just repeating arguments....
Stop it ffs!. I am repeating the questions that you keep saying you have answered when you clearly haven't.
Here
You have even admitted that Thomas did disbelieve but then failed miserably to explain to us why Jesus appeared to a disbeliever , and a disbeliever that should have known better after witnessing all the "wonders and miracles", and not appear to believers and disbelievers today?
Why no reprimand of Thomas for being "of little faith"?
You haven't explained how Thomas was allowed to "tempt the lord" against the strict command concerning tempting the lord? Deuteronomy 6:16 . Matthew 4:7
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@Bringerofrain
No reasonable person reading those witness accounts would think those are different events.
I am inclined to agree (many don't). The clue for me is as I explained above - the cost, but that is just me and my opinion, which is not evidence or proof. But then I believe there could be evidence found to prove the contrary.
But in your own case and from your own belief, are those seemingly contradictory accounts that I had already set out at #1 and that you have repeated above, your only evidence that you say proves that all four gospel writers are relaying the same anointing event?
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@Bringerofrain
It isn't the same account LOL. It was from 2 different witnesses right? 2 different witness accounts?
But are we talking the same event, yes or no? You say above at #18 "It's obviously the same event".
So , tell me, being that it is so "obvious" to you, how do you know that they are the same event?
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@Bringerofrain
It's obviously the same event.
That's what I wanted to know. And that is what I was hoping you would say because it isn't that "obvious" to me.
So , tell me, being that it is so "obvious" to you, how do you know that they are the same account?
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