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@BrotherDThomas
Doesn't fauxlaw's modus operandi remind you of the equally Bible fool ethang5?
Indeed brother and Ethang5 thought he too could abuse the rules until he was put in his place and corrected on a few points by moderation.
He got his reply >>>>
*facepalm*Following someone around like a lost dog which hasn't been potty trained, when they've repeatedly asked you to cease, is a CoC violation under the Targeted Harassment rule. While usually it is too minor to warrant intervention, enough of it can cross the line (such as with clearly "obsessive attempts to derail unrelated topics with impertinent grudges").We apply a “reasonable person” to reported posts, which is particularly damning when the users in question literally just came off a restraining order and it's several threads.
I am honestly just sick to death of these people who claim be educated better than others and versed in scripture but run a mile when challenged for explanations or they stick around to agitate and disrupt the thread for lack of of answers. It has to stop. Is all they ever seem to want to do is bury their embarrassment under a pile of irrelevant argument.
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@fauxlaw
The DArt Forum is designed as an open-session vehicle for all members to engage in discussion according to their whim
Not when they have been asked repeatedly to leave a thread and especially when someone on block has been asked to leave a thread. This is the third time I have had to asked you to leave me and my threads alone and I have given my reasons very clearly.. I gave you numerous opportunities to engage with me and topic of the thread,.. You didn't and have shown no intention of doing so. I am now requesting an RO as per moderator advice.
You need to read the forum rules about Forum Etiquette.
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@fauxlaw
Seems I have a pair of members who,................
For the second time PLEASE stay off of my threads Fauxlaw. You have nothing to offer but slights, insults and antagonistic behaviour.
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It appears to me to be all very Salem Witch Trials unless of course Jesus really was mentally deficient in some way?
Reading the scriptures it is not hard to see that anyone simply saying something others do not agree with can be accused of being "possessed"?
I have been accused by members here of having a demon or a worshiper of the devil or similar a few times, simply for having a different approach to these scriptures.:
Tradesecret wrote: Theserpent, satan, whatever - he is the accuser and you follow afterhim. you are his disciple. From my point of view - he is slime. Youknow like the stuff we find after a snail has passed by. creepy. disgusting. ugly. #24
In the scriptures one can simply be sick and they are deemed to be "possessed by a demon" as in the case of the boy suffering what we now know to be an epileptic seizure:
"And behold, a spirit seizes him, and he suddenly cries out. It convulses him so that he foams at the mouth, and shatters him, and will hardly leave him.
" And I begged your disciples to cast it out, but they could not.”
Jesus answered, “O faithless and twisted generation, how long am I to be with you and bear with you? Bring your son here.”
While he was coming, the demon threw him to the ground and convulsed him.
But Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit and healed the boy, and gave him back to his father. And all were astonished at the majesty of God. Luke 9:39-43
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@fauxlaw
Having charged anyone as me, who is a student of Greek ..............................to answer his question, but then blocks my direct answer to him, has not desired that I answer his question, but blocks my answer.
You are not the only one here that claims the title of a student of ancient Greek. Or even knowing Greek. Accusing the atheist of " not knowing the Greek translation" and "cherry picking" is not new or exclusive to you. No, that lame excuse has been offered numerous times over they years on this forum alone to others and to me personally. They are just a few of the oldest excuses Christian theist use when caught on the back foot and after painting themselves into a corner as you too have now done.
When requested and offered the opportunity to put your Greek linguistical skills into practice, here #32 here #34 here #42 here #63 here #77 - FIVE TIMES !!!! in all; you fell at the first fence and never recovered.
but then blocks my direct answer to him, has not desired that I answer his question, but blocks my answer.
Yes it is a horrible cowardly trick that I learned from YOU specifically. Not nice is it. You have such a short memory when it suites you. You are still a spinless a coward.
You have proven to me that you have absolutely nothing to offer this or any of my threads. It takes you only a matter of 1 or 2 posts and your veiled slights and ad hominem and intention to disrupt start to creep in especially when you are made to look bible ignorant and show that you have no intention or simply too incapable to discuss the topic of the thread. You simply cannot help yourself.
I allowed you to post on my threads in the hope that you would see that my inquiries of the scriptures are genuine.
On advice and recommendation I allowed you to post on my threads and to me (indirectly) in the hope there would eventually be some cordial exchanges and I haven't complained at all although I do still have you on block. And as it turned out, I was right to do so.
So as recommended by moderation:
I have you on block. And now I would like you to leave this thread , my thread, and never post to me or on any of my threads again considering that you have CLEARLY shown time and time again that you have no interest in engaging in the topic and simply want to disrupt it, as you have shown numerous times now.
So please leave this thread, my thread and stay off them altogether.
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Can no one explain in English what is going on in those verses above, not even in ancient Greek!!!!?
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@K_Michael
I'm currently too busy to argue about the Bible,
Perfectly understandable. The Bible is a hard slog for many and more so for believers I have found when comes to explaining away all its faults and ambiguous half stories that have been taken at face value. And it becomes even harder, indeed unacceptable for them too once they have had surface scratched away..... for them.
I am lucky, I have had a fervent interest in the scriptures for decades and it helps when, like me, one enjoys the subject as much as I do, although, I am an atheist.
"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.": Mark Twain
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@BrotherDThomas
Stephen,As explicitly shown in my post #99 above, FAUXLAW was put to rest on his insidious notion of using Greek translations to specific words instead of what is directly shown within the scriptures. But, as if FAUXLAW isn't dumbfounded enough regarding the Bible and wanting to use Greek translations, he posited that he is a "student of Greek," but does not mention this in its true form within his comical biography! Therefore, *cough,* are we to assume that in FAUXLAW being "A STUDENT OF GREEK," he means the sexual adherence of same?! OMG, how unchristian like can FAUXLAW be?In the name of the hung Savior,Brother D. Thomas
Brother , you remind me of how odd I thought it was that Fauxlaw in his forum biography freely offers us his very impressive academic credentials . And an interesting little bag of academic tricks it is, it is impressive, Brother.
A published author, Phds, History & English Lit. And being " Fluent in English, French, Italian, and Egyptian hieroglyphs."
But like you, I found it most odd that what he seems to have forgot to mention in his detailed biography is his knowledge and expertise in ancient Greek!?
"I am a student of Greek "#28 he tells us, but not a peep about it in his public forum profile here at Debateart !?
Tell me Brother, do you think that it is at all possible for one to forget that one is " a student in Greek"?
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“ Why are you trying to kill me?”“You are demon-possessed,”the crowd answered. 7: 19-20
Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?” John8:48
Jesus's own family appear to agree with those that wanted to kill him too.....
saying : "He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?" John10:20– Mark3:21
Was Jesus sick, or mad, or possessed as the scriptures describe. It is all doubtful isn't that the son of god aka god to Christians , could be possessed isn't it?
So is there a single explanation why these Jews, including Jesus' own family which included the handpicked virgin herself - Mary mother of God - would even suggest that Jesus son of god was possessed with a demon?
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@fauxlaw
It is ambiguous and totally unreliable.You do not agree with me at all. I never said the Bible is unreliable. In fact, I did say.......
No, this is what you have said. ___ " Frankly, I'm shocked the book managed to have enough integrity left in it when monks and such finished their agenda and still managed to give us an inkling of truth"#79
I simply said I agree with you, if you were referring to the bible? . I then added my own twopence worth. Still, I too am amazed that you consider it to have any integrity, could you point it out to me? _ especially after YOU , and clowns and conmen in dresses and tall hats have, over the centuries decided only they know the secrets of the bible and its rightful interpretation.
"The Bible has noble poetry in it... and some good morals and a wealth of obscenity, and upwards of a thousand lies", said Samuel Langhorne Clemens.
"It has served us well, this myth of Christ." Pope Leo X said.
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@K_Michael
you have an argument on your hands if you are saying that Jesus isn't godand yet you also say thatSatan ... was, thousands of years before Jesus, sentenced to crawl on his bellyIf Jesus was not around when Satan was sentenced to crawl on his belly, then he could not have been the God who sentenced him, and the Bible only allows one God. Point: me. Jesus is (as described in the Bible) the Messiah, a Son of God who perfectly served his will.
(a)Oh I agree. Its certainly a dilemma for the Christian that believes that which Jesus says of himself " I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End" (Revelation 22:13). And also believes that Jesus is the "Word"and was with god and the Word was god"? But all the same, Satan also was at the beginning, and the scriptures say that he was punished for seducing and deceiving mankind Genesis 3:14) I would agree too that it is all very convoluted to say the least.
(b)And we are still left with " Why would Jesus go to the "wilderness " to be tempted in the first place, by anyone? the scriptures are not even clear about what he was being tested on, are they?
(c) this still doesn't explain how Satan is found just walking about, making bets, killing children with gods blessing and Q& A- ing the son of god after being sentence to eating dirt on his belly for eternity, at any time after, does it?
How was Satan ever in a position to temp Jesus/god in the first place. From where did his authority come?Simple. He doesn't have authority. Why would he need to tempt Jesus if he had any authority over him?
Well then Satan thought very highly of himself didn't he. What ever caused him to believe that he was in a position to tempt the son of god, I wonder? You do say that Satan knew he was the son of god.
He was in a position to do so because, as most translations insist, "Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil." (Matt 4:1 NIV) the Spirit put Jesus in a position where he could be tempted.
I notice that have dumped the Joseph Smith translation. But that doesn't explain why? Why did the sinless , immaculately conceived and born of a pure virgin, Jesus - son of god - need to be tempted by anyone let alone the devil? This is why the story make absolutely no sense if we are to take it literally.
I said earlier that this is Matthew yet again attempting to tie Jesus to the Old Testament because all of the responses Jesus is said to have given are straight out of :
Deuteronomy8:3
Deuteronomy6:16
Deuteronomy6:13
it looks like Smith's translation is outnumbered, doesn't it.? Or are you saying that all of those bibles are wrong and only Joseph Smith's translation is the correct translation.Christianity is outnumbered. I merely wanted to point out that there are technically other interpretations than yours.
But those interpretations aren't mine. They are the in interpretation of all the Christian bible, with the exception of Joseph Smith`s interpretation.
By the way, did Joseph Smith understand and speak ancient Greek?That hardly matters, as the original biblical texts were largely written in Hebrew and Aramaic as well. Ancient (or Koine) Greek reads almost the same as modern Greek, so that one would be the easiest for Joseph Smith to learn.
Then you have another argument on your hands. As there are those here that insist and are adamant that one needs to understand the ancient Greek language to be able to understand the bible. I don't agree .
Ancient (or Koine) Greek reads almost the same as modern Greek
I agree, to my own knowledge, there is hardly a difference. For example, when Jesus in the bible uses the word "secret" it cannot mean anything else can it? And when bible says : John 19:38 " Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly " doesn't it mean what it says, that Jesus met someone in secret?
What about the use of the word "secret" in this verse>> John 7:8-10 "However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret". <<< does that mean Jesus did something in secret or does it mean something entirely different?
Why would Jesus go out into the desert "to be with god" if he is god? If you cannot accept that Jesus is god ( as millions of Christians do) regardless of what Joseph Smith says on the matter, answer the original question, Why would Jesus go to the "wilderness " to be tempted in the first place?Jesus is the Son of God. He did this the same reason he was baptized, to set an example of a holy life.
That makes no sense. Set an example to whom? Didn't Jesus understand his own status or his own pedigree as being the son of a perfect and faultless god?
I see. Are you telling me that the devil believed that Jesus- god and son of god - was naive enough and gullible enough to be "tricked" .The devil has never had to tempt a perfect person before. These would likely be very tempting offers, enough to break nearly anyone. It didn't matter if Satan believed that he could do it. He was desperate to foil God's plan to save humanity. He had to try, even if it wasn't likely to work.
Well that is just utter nonsense. You cannot prove a single word of that and there is absolutely nothing in the Christian scriptures that can support what you say.. But what the bible does say and what you are forgetting is that Satan couldn't even break the loyalty of god's mere human servant, Job? Didn't Satan learn nothing?
The whole story is nonsense. There is absolutely no reason for this episode except maybe for Jesus to show his knowledge of the scriptures that qualified him to be a priest? And if that was the case, then we may found a real reason behind the "test".
how would anyone know what was spoken between these two out there in the "wilderness"?The same way the Apostles wrote of Jesus' birth. They were told about it (in this case by Jesus) and wrote it down.
And your evidence for that comes from where?
Or you can admit that the Bible is false, in which case I win.
I have no problems at all saying, and have never hidden the fact that I believe the bible - and the New Testament in particular - to be ambiguous and full of contradictory half stories about a real human man that has been swaddled in Myth, Magic and Miracles.
I believe the greatest disservice Christians did to themselves was to adopt an ancient god that they understood absolutely nothing about, from a time that they understood absolutely nothing about, from a culture that they understood absolutely nothing about. And this is why we have problems as shown at (a) (b) & (c) above.
What is it that Jesus is supposed to said about the impossibility of trying to serve two masters? Well the same applies here where Christians are trying to serve Jesus as god and god too.
Jesus was a Jew in every sense of the word. He told his disciples that they would be left to "judge over all the twelve tribes of Israel". Those he had come to unite and free from the Roman yoke.
in which case I win.
Win what?
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@Bringerofrain
Tell me , who would you rather have walking among you, a murdering insurrectionist criminal or a wonder worker that could heal your sick child and even bring them back to life?Who I would prefer is irrelevant.
Never mind.
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@BrotherDThomas
Stephen,Have you ever seen such a pseudo-christian RUNAWAY from Jesus' inspired words that FAUXLAW
I will be honest brother. I am absolutely baffled as to why Fauxlaw is turning down the opportunity to show us his linguistical skills that he claims to have in the ancient Greek language. He claims the problem is all to do with the translation and the ancient Greek language. And he would know , wouldn't he? He has proudly told us ; "I am a student of Greek "#28 .
I am asking him simply to translate two biblical verses into ancient Greek so as we will all have a better understanding what Jesus meant when he lied to the priest saying
" I did nothing in secret" (John 18:20) when the same author, John, also tells us :
John 19:38 "Later", Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away.
and then adds
John 7:8-10
You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret".
His reluctance is really puzzling. This argument may have been solved pages ago had he not have dragged his feet. But then there is the problem of "god words" being "flawless".
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@fauxlaw
Frankly, I'm shocked the book managed to have enough integrity left in it when monks and such finished their agenda and still managed to give us an inkling of truth.
Well if you are talking about the holy Christian Bible I can agree with you. It is a mess . It is ambiguous and totally unreliable. It is full of inconsistent half stories and contradictions, isn't it?
So why don't you give us your own expert translated version in their original Greek of those two biblical verses and maybe we could have a better insight to what Jesus meant when he used the word "secret" ? It can't be too hard for you to do, can it?
The infallible Word of God? You know, deep down, he never wrote a single word of it.
I do. All the four gospels have the actual names the of the supposed authors at the top of every page. And not one says Jesus or god. But there are Christians here that believe they were at least the flawless "breathed words of god".
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@fauxlaw
I just love it when I see others having to steal someone else's thunder. Such desperation to be famous and popular on the back of others. And you , an alleged author with letters after your name and claims of being " a student of Greek "#28. How ridiculous if not pathetic..
I have nothing to cry about. Are you now just posting to agitate and disrupt ? Are you totally spent or would you care to address this that you keep ignoring>>
Off you go.And now for the third time, you have invited my departure, but you keep calling me back. Confused, Stephen? Typical state
I have never invited you onto a single one of my threads . But it seems that you were so lonely and desperate to post to me that you unblocked me, when I didn't give two shites about your block. And remember, I didn't drag you here either. I am tolerating you out of politeness and for the sake of diplomacy.
But my, you are a sly one aren't you. And anyone (except you) clearly understands what is meant when I wrote " off you go" in this sense>> #42.
So if all you have in reply to my simple request for you to show your Greek language skills is to say I am "confused" , then you might as well to stay off my threads, might you?
When YOU were given the opportunity to put your expert knowledge in the Greek language to the test and into practice you failed every single time and avoided the challenge altogether!!!! What are you so scared of? It should be a doddle for you with those Phd's and that brags to us all " I, too, am a student of Greek" #28 fauxlaw.
Would you like another try?
Here we are shown that Jesus met and spoke with others in secret and did things in secret. If secret doesn't mean what the ancient Greek lexicon says it means, then simply put these verses into context with what you believe to be their real intended meanings using your new interpretation and definition of the word - secret.
7:8-10
You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret".
John 19:38 "Later", Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away.
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Occult secrets are like open secrets
And I have said the the word 'occult ' means hidden.
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@fauxlaw
Though new to the site (welcome, by the way), you see that BroT is a broken little man who is best ignored, Bhutto on occasion it’s fun to listen to him pound his table.
Absolute uncalled for abuse of another member.
If a man doesn't believe as they do, they say he's a crank, and the settles it. I mean, it does nowadays, because now they can't burn him: SamuelLanghorne Clemens.
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@Theweakeredge
see, that was arrogance, you didn't look at a simple thing.
Nope . Nothing to do with arrogance and all to do with with the key word and search engine & maybe a little due diligence. But I accept all the blame. Would you like me to lick your arse too?
.. I make no excuses and not sure how many times you'd like me to apologise.
You still haven't answered those questions and I am still puzzled as to what you are still doing on this thread after point plank telling me you are "not interested in my questions" ,and never was .
You mentioned " burden of proof". I shown the the proof that Jesus told lies to the high priest. You have chosen to ignore those verses and by your own admission that you were not interested. And didn't Jesus also tell these priest that they would witness him - "the son of man coming on a cloud" ? How did that one turn out for them?
Just in case you claim to have missed it here it is again.
Here the bible tells us two very clear of things done and spoked IN SECRET by Jesus
John 7:8-10
You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret".
John 19:38 "Later", Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away.
BUT HERE, Jesus claims to have not done anything at all in secret>>>
John 18: 19-21.
“I have spoken openly to the world,” Jesus replied. “I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret.
So clearly Jesus lied or the bible authors are putting words in the mouth of the Christ. I am going with the former.
You haven't been able to square this contradiction and haven't even attempted to. Others have blamed it all on mistranslation of the ancient Greek word for "secret". which then throws the whole of the bible under the suspicion and unreliability bus, doesn't it?
The same have failed to correct those verses with their own interpretation and definitions of the "mistranslated " word "secret" when given numerous opportunity to do so although one of them even tells us that he is " a student of Greek"!?
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@FLRW
Stephen,I am a practicing Christian was said by aletheakatharos, not Theweakeredge.
Yep. Just been corrected on that. And have apologised to Theweakestlink.
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@Theweakeredge
Then again I apologise.
Now about these questions you still haven't bothered to reply to. I take your not interested so you can leave the thread.
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@Theweakeredge
@Stephen
#49 You do know I'm an atheist right? I don't believe in the bible or Jesus.
You claimed that I was a Christian, so maybe you should do some very basic research before being a douche
Ok I have and looking back over my posts I see that you claim to be a Christian too. So make up your mind what you are before trying to be clever and behaving like "douche"!! eh
am a practicing Christian, yes.#8Added12.16.20 06:09AM
Indeed this is why I assumed you were a christian, and I had very good reason to, didn't I, Theweakestlink?
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@Theweakeredge
You claimed that I was a Christian
I did, I assumed you was. I apologise.
I don't care about your questions.
Yes I gathered that when you posed questions of your own instead of addressing my questions. And it is a thing that Christians do. It won't be the first time you have come to one of my threads with questions of your own while totally ignoring my questions. Have you forgotten this >>#3 this >>>> #8 and this especially>>.#10
Now you have finally admitted that you have no intention of answering those questions, you have no business even being on this thread, do you, Theweakestlink
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@K_Michael
I have had to repost this comment as I didn't address it to the intended addressee, K_Michael ;#20
And who was Satan to demand proof from God?Satan doesn't talk to God in this passage, he talks to Jesus. Why Jesus allowed him to, I don't know [......................] the scripture isn't written in the first person.
I didn't ask that. And you have an argument on your hands if you are saying that Jesus isn't god ( "and the word was god"John 1). But that doesn't answer the question.
How was Satan ever in a position to temp Jesus/god in the first place. From where did his authority come?
And who was Satan to demand proof from God?Matthew 4:1 Joseph Smith Translation: "Then Jesus was led up of the Spirit, into the wilderness, to be with God."
AND Matthew 4:1 doesn't give "god" a mention but simply states:
4 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. (NIV)
4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.(ESV)
4 After this, Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil.(ISV)
4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. (KJV)
4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.(AKJV)
4 Then Jesus was led out into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit, to be tempted there by Satan. (TLB)
Need I go on? As can clearly be seen, the reason given is "to be tempted by Satan".
Not mention of "to be with God" . . So it looks like Smith's translation is outnumbered, doesn't it.? Or are you saying that all of those bibles are wrong and only Joseph Smith's translation is the correct translation. By the way, did Joseph Smith understand and speak ancient Greek?
Why would Jesus go out into the desert "to be with god" if he is god? If you cannot accept that Jesus is god ( as millions of Christians do) regardless of what Joseph Smith says on the matter, answer the original question, Why would Jesus go to the "wilderness " to be tempted in the first place?
I am an atheist, but from a symbolic perspective, Jesus visiting a mountaintop makes perfect sense.
It is irrelevant to the thread what you are or believe. But you are clinging to Joseph Smiths' translation that suggest Jesus went into the wilderness to go up a mountain "to be near to god" . When all other translations tell us clearly that the devil took Jesus up the mountain and an " exceedingly high one" at that!
Matthew 4: 8 Again, the devil took Him up onto an exceeding high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them.
and the reason given was to attempt to bribe Jesus. See for yourself>>.
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
It appears that god needed Satan's approval or at least Satan thought he needed, why?Satan, the Father of Deceit, was trying to trick Jesus into thinking that he needed approval.
I see. Are you telling me that the devil believed that Jesus- god and son of god - was naive enough and gullible enough to be "tricked" .
And again, we see Satan, wondering about AGAIN as he was doing in the sad story of Job after being sentenced to a punishment of crawling on his belly and eating dirt for the rest of eternity??????This is not a question.
Well it is. And I will explain why.
Satan " that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan, who deceiveth the whole world" (Revelation 12:9) , was, thousands of years before Jesus, sentenced to crawl on his belly eating dirt for the rest of eternity. Genesis 3:14
But when we read the sad story of Job we find " that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan" just leisurely wondering around the earth and making bets with god that ended with in the deaths of all of Jobs 10 children. Job1:6-7.
And again in this instance, we see , " that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan" just going about leisurely doing his thing and taking Jesus up exceedingly high mountains and to the roof top of the temple and tempting him and offering bribes.
Can you explain then why it is that a being, once sentenced by god to crawl on his belly eating dirt for all eternity as punishment for seducing and deceiving mankind Genesis 3:14) can be found years later just strolling around the earth, "going to a fro", making bets with god at the cost of the lives of 10 children, then years later still, is able to be tempting Jesus the son god?
And how would anyone know what was spoken between these two out there in the "wilderness"?
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@fauxlaw
Satan asked Jesus to prove who he was. Why?And who was Satan to demand proof from God?Why did God go out into the wilderness to be tested by Satan in the first place anyway?It appears that god needed Satan's approval or at least Satan thought he needed it, why?1. Satan asked Jesus to prove who he was by challenging Jesus to be of self-service; to satisfy his own hunger by the use of his priesthood power to convert stones to bread.
Yes I read the challenge. But it, and YOU makes no sense whatsoever when we are supposed to be talking about a god/son of a god? You make it clear above that this wasn't that Satan didn't know who he was, but that the reason was " to plant doubt in the mind of Jesus that he was who he was" #8 . Do you not realise how ridiculous your made up interpretation of the whole event comes across?
You are telling us that Jesus may have been open to doubting himself of who he was? Didn't his mother and father ever tell him the story of his immaculate conception? Didn't his mother tell of how god had come into her as a virgin?
Had Jesus forgotten so quickly and so soon after his baptism the dove and the voice of his father /god saying:
17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”Matthew 3:17????
Hadn't his cousin " the greatest prophet that ever lived " told Jesus who the chosen one was?
Is there a single piece of evidence that Jesus doubted or was open to doubting himself or had the slightest reason as to doubt who he was.? All the evidence say NO! There is absolutely no reason for Jesus to have gone to Satan " to be tempted" .
2. Indeed, who was Satan? He was a son of God [the son of the morning] in the spirit,
Yes I know his biography very well. It doesn't answer the question.
3. Who says that was the only experience of Jesus being tempted by Satan, as if it was such a special and unique experience for him?
I don't know, who says that? But I did ask : Can you explain then why it is that a being, once sentenced by god to crawl on his belly eating dirt for all eternity as punishment for seducing and deceiving mankind Genesis 3:14) can be found years later just strolling around the earth, "going to a fro", making bets with god at the cost of the lives of 10 children, then years later still, is able to be tempting Jesus the son god?
And how would anyone know what was spoken between these two out there in the "wilderness"?
4. God did not and does not need Satan's approval.
Yet we have this ridiculous story about tempting him/Jesus. If Jesus was never going to fail this test then there was absolute no point to it at all, was there?
Your explanations fall into the realm of complete and utter invented garbage in an attempt to explain away a story that probably didn't happen at all in the way it has been presented by the gospel authors.
Must try harder.
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@fauxlaw
Off you go.And now for the third time, you have invited my departure, but you keep calling me back. Confused, Stephen? Typical state
I have never invited you onto a single one of my threads . But it seems that you were so lonely and desperate to post to me that you unblocked me, when I didn't give two shites about your block. And remember, I didn't drag you here either. I am tolerating you out of politeness and for the sake of diplomacy.
But my, you are a sly one aren't you. And anyone (except you) clearly understands what is meant when I wrote " off you go" in this sense>> #42.
So if all you have in reply to my simple request for you to show you Greek language skills is to say I am "confused" , then you might as well to stay off my threads, might you?
When YOU were given the opportunity to put your expert knowledge in the Greek language to the test and into practice you failed every single time and avoided the challenge altogether!!!! What are you so scared of? It should be a doddle for you with those Phd's and that brags to us all " I, too, am a student of Greek" #28 fauxlaw.
Here we are shown that Jesus met and spoke with others in secret and did things in secret. If secret doesn't mean what the ancient Greek lexicon says it means, then simply put these verses into context with what you believe to be their real intended meanings using your new interpretation and definition of the word - secret.
7:8-10
You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret".
John 19:38 "Later", Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away".
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And who was Satan to demand proof from God?Satan doesn't talk to God in this passage, he talks to Jesus. Why Jesus allowed him to, I don't know [......................] the scripture isn't written in the first person.
I didn't ask that. And you have an argument on your hands if you are saying that Jesus isn't god ( "and the word was god"John 1). But that doesn't answer the question.
How was Satan ever in a position to temp Jesus/god in the first place. From where did his authority come?
And who was Satan to demand proof from God?Matthew 4:1 Joseph Smith Translation: "Then Jesus was led up of the Spirit, into the wilderness, to be with God."
AND Matthew 4:1 doesn't give "god" a mention but simply states:
4 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. (NIV)
4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.(ESV)
4 After this, Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil.(ISV)
4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. (KJV)
4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.(AKJV)
4 Then Jesus was led out into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit, to be tempted there by Satan. (TLB)
Need I go on? As can clearly be seen, the reason given is "to be tempted by Satan".
Not mention of "to be with God" . . So it looks like Smith's translation is outnumbered, doesn't it.? Or are you saying that all of those bibles are wrong and only Joseph Smith's translation is the correct translation. By the way, did Joseph Smith understand and speak ancient Greek?
Why would Jesus go out into the desert "to be with god" if he is god? If you cannot accept that Jesus is god ( as millions of Christians do) regardless of what Joseph Smith says on the matter, answer the original question, Why would Jesus go to the "wilderness " to be tempted in the first place?
I am an atheist, but from a symbolic perspective, Jesus visiting a mountaintop makes perfect sense.
It is irrelevant to the thread what you are or believe. But you are clinging to Joseph Smiths' translation that suggest Jesus went into the wilderness to go up a mountain "to be near to god" . When all other translations tell us clearly that the devil took Jesus up the mountain and an " exceedingly high one" at that!
Matthew 4: 8 Again, the devil took Him up onto an exceeding high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them.
and the reason given was to attempt to bribe Jesus. See for yourself>>.
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
It appears that god needed Satan's approval or at least Satan thought he needed, why?Satan, the Father of Deceit, was trying to trick Jesus into thinking that he needed approval.
I see. Are you telling me that the devil believed that Jesus- god and son of god - was naive enough and gullible enough to be "tricked" .
And again, we see Satan, wondering about AGAIN as he was doing in the sad story of Job after being sentenced to a punishment of crawling on his belly and eating dirt for the rest of eternity??????This is not a question.
Well it is. And I will explain why.
Satan " that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan, who deceiveth the whole world" (Revelation 12:9) , was, thousands of years before Jesus, sentenced to crawl on his belly eating dirt for the rest of eternity. Genesis 3:14
But when we read the sad story of Job we find " that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan" just leisurely wondering around the earth and making bets with god that ended with in the deaths of all of Jobs 10 children. Job1:6-7.
And again in this instance, we see , " that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan" just going about leisurely doing his thing and taking Jesus up exceedingly high mountains and to the roof top of the temple and tempting him and offering bribes.
Can you explain then why it is that a being, once sentenced by god to crawl on his belly eating dirt for all eternity as punishment for seducing and deceiving mankind Genesis 3:14) can be found years later just strolling around the earth, "going to a fro", making bets with god at the cost of the lives of 10 children, then years later still, is able to be tempting Jesus the son god?
And how would anyone know what was spoken between these two out there in the "wilderness"?
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@Theweakeredge
You do know I'm an atheist right? I don't believe in the bible or Jesus.
What you are and believe is irrelevant to this thread and those questions in particular. Questions that you still haven't even bothered to answer.
You haven't even been polite enough to say if or not those three verses contradict one another. If you don't want to commit yourself either way then that it fine by me.
Jesus says that he didn't do things in secret. the bible claims that he clearly did. #48, and is all I have asked you is to confirm or deny any or all ;
[A] .... tell me, is Jesus lying? Is the bible lying? Do the verses contradict one another? Have the scriptures been totally mistranslated? Or have the gospel authors simply put words into the mouth of the Christ?
[B] What does the words - "not publicly but in secret" - mean to you in those verses?
If you don't want to commit yourself either way then that it fine by me. Then there is no reason for you to even be on this thread any longer, is there.
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@Theweakeredge
You realize that was the entire point right? That the bible is to inaccurate in any regard to try to make comprehensible assessments over a figure with such vague speech's intentions.
The bible also tell us that every word of god is "flawless", doesn't it?
Here >>>>> “EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5).
There you are. So the bible either contradicts you, or you are contradicting the bible, which is it?
You realize that was the entire point right?
What was?
And you didn't address a single question I put to you at post #44. Why?
And what is it with Christians that they respond by asking questions of there own in response to a question put to them?
Here you. I will give you t benefit of the doubt and believe that you missed them.
When the bible says Jesus said " I said nothing in secret" John 18: 19-21. and the bible also says:
John 7:8-10
You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret".
AND
John 19:38 "Later", Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away,.....
[A] .... tell me, is Jesus lying? Is the bible lying? Do the verses contradict one another? Have the scriptures been totally mistranslated? Or have the gospel authors simply put words into the mouth of the Christ?
[B] What does the words - not publicly but in secret - mean to you in those verses?
, you could claim,"If I interpret what Jesus says here to mean this, and we assume that this version of the bible is de facto what Jesus said, and we assume that Jesus doesn't legitimately believe this particular thing, THEN Jesus is lying." I'm sorry but that stretches things a bit too far for my liking.
Well you are the one injecting conjecture and not me. I have put verses, holy bible verses, side by side which proves Jesus lied. Remember. I haven't had to interpret anything, you are the one saying - ""If I interpret what Jesus says" ........
.......And that is why I will be interested in you response [ A] & [B] above.
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@Intelligence_06
If a clone is built exactly the same as a human and can operate normally, then if humans have souls, this clone has a soul.
It should be that obvious., shouldn't it?
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If those lepers are already dead than who cares?
So you don't have an answer. Then try this one. Why did he even bother healing a few lepers or curing anyone at all if they were "already dead anyway"? You see here again you have yourself highlighted one of those biblical anomalies that need answering.
The message of his philosophy covered that we are already dead. "Let the dead bury their dead".
I agree and I have dedicated a whole thread just to that one single enigmatic 6 letter uttering from the Christ. I put forward that no one that he is said to have cured was ever "sick" in the first place, and no one was ever physical "dead" when he "raised " them either, as in the case of Lazarus.
I believe, as you also seem to_ that we are only talking spiritually "sick" and spiritually "dead". The verse that you have quoted only makes sense if one is speaking spiritually and not literally physically dead or sick..
The same goes for the story of the lost "dead " son. And the story of Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira. No one just "dropped down dead" <<<, this was simply an excommunication and act of being sent back to live among "the dead".
Nice to know we have a common ground or appear to have. We will have to see how long that lasts..
But none of this is answering the absence of Jesus` multitude of followers that failed to show the slightest interest in supporting him?
And you somehow missed this>>
Tell me , who would you rather have walking among you, a murdering insurrectionist criminal or a wonder worker that could heal your sick child and even bring them back to life?
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@FLRW
Well, remember that Albert Einstein said that the Bible was a collection of venerable but still rather primitive legends.
And I would wager even Einstein couldn't deny that those quotes above from the Christ are contradictory.#1
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@Bringerofrain
There probably aren't many jews here to answer you, but they can be stubborn.
This goes nowhere in explaining the total lack of support of these hundreds of thousands followers that had come 2from miles around" and had witnessed his "miracles and wonders".
Tell me , who would you rather have walking among you, a murdering insurrectionist criminal or a wonder worker that could heal your sick child and even bring them back to life?
And while we are on the subject of healing, can you explain to me why Jesus cured only a few lepers and not simply eradicated leprosy from the face of the earth altogether?
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Another Lie.
Jesus' promised his followers that they would live to see his return . None have and he didn't.
“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28.
Jesus then goes further telling them which “signs” to look out for that indicate return of "the son of man" is near but this time including the whole “generation” and ending again with:
“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened “Matthew24:25-34.
Mark13:26-30 says the same as does Luke21:27-32.
Did he return. No.
What's more, we can read further in Mathew(who else) that Jesus adds to his prediction by telling his disciples that he would return even before they had the time to spread the word to all the cities of Israel, of which there were less than 80 cities at the time of his ministry:
Matthew 10:23 " When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes".
Well, the word has spread throughout Israel and all around the world now, hasn't it? And is there a single Jew in Israel that hasn't heard of the Jew Jesus known as the Christ?
"those standing here" << should not be forgotten . Even if we were to allow 50 years for a "generation" Jesus still failed to appear.
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@fauxlaw
But to be critical in ignorance is, well, it is just that.
Never mind your veiled slights against me. They don't answer the questions posed.
here :
Satan asked Jesus to prove who he was. Why?
And who was Satan to demand proof from God?
Why did God go out into the wilderness to be tested by Satan in the first place anyway?
It appears that god needed Satan's approval or at least Satan thought he needed it, why?
And again, we see Satan, wondering about AGAIN as he was doing in the sad story of Job ( Job 1:6) after being sentenced thousands of years before to a punishment of crawling on his belly and eating dirt for the rest of eternity, for deceiving and corrupting mankind(Genesis 3:14), how can this be?
And I notice that you've haven't explained how anyone knew what was spoken out there in the "wilderness" between these two?
I've read the entire Bible on seven occasions,
Well I suggest that you keep reading it. Meanwhile try answering the questions above. Implying that I am ignorant and unread and uneducated will not win you an argument and doesn't answer the questions.
Off you go.
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@K_Michael
I interpret it more as a challenge, similar to when someone makes fun of you for being unable to do something."Well, IF you're so smart, why don't you do it yourself?"
But that is the reverse of what I am saying. Jesus didn't ask Satan to prove who he/Jesus was for himself. Satan asked Jesus to prove who he was. Why?
And who was Satan to demand proof from God?
Why did God go out into the wilderness to be tested by Satan in the first place anyway?
It appears that god needed Satan's approval or at least Satan thought he needed, why?
And again, we see Satan, wondering about AGAIN as he was doing in the sad story of Job after being sentenced to a punishment of crawling on his belly and eating dirt for the rest of eternity??????
This is why I say that this ambiguous story of Satan testing god is beyond absurd, it is outright stupidity at its worst that only a child or the cretinous adult would believe.
It is plane as day that for anyone that has read the scriptures for themselves knows, that Jesus' replies came straight from;
Deuteronomy8:3
Deuteronomy6:16
Deuteronomy6:13
Deuteronomy6:13
But then Mathew did love his trusty Old Testament,he was always so desperate to tie the OT prophecies to Jesus.
And I notice no one has been able to explain how anyone knew what was spoken out there in the "wilderness" between these two.
Is all you have shown here K_Michael, is that this ridiculous story is open to all kinds of interpretation.
I don't suppose that you will address those questions above will you?
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@zedvictor4
the serpent is a penis metaphor
Indeed Vic. Do you recall our conversation on the matter of "knowing" here #14
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@Deb-8-a-bull
He got tricked into believing he was a son of the god thing.
And I believe that you are not too far off the mark with that comment, Deb.
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@Theweakeredge
Unfortunately, I don't think you quite have the proper evidence to conclude whether Jesus is a liar or not.
Isn't the holy bible enough evidence, for you?
When the bible says Jesus said " I said nothing in secret" John 18: 19-21. and the bible also says:
John 7:8-10
You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret".
AND
John 19:38 "Later", Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away,.....
[A] .... tell me, is Jesus lying? Is the bible lying? Do the verses contradict one another? Have the scriptures been totally mistranslated? Or have the gospel authors simply put words into the mouth of the Christ?
[B] What does the words - not publicly but in secret - mean to you in those verses?
First of all, Jesus evidently believes what he says to be true,
I agree but this doesn't alter those verses and has no baring on the facts. Jesus believed he was the rightful king but the Jews who were there at the time didn't believe him. this is not to mention his friends and family thought he was mad. I mean com'on! The holy mother of the son of god surely should know her own son, shouldn't she.
Furthermore, the bible has been edited and changed from the original translations.
Ok. so the holy scriptures are totally unreliable then , are they?
Furthermore, you could claim,
"If I interpret what Jesus says here to mean this, and we assume that this version of the bible is de facto what Jesus said, and we assume that Jesus doesn't legitimately believe this particular thing, THEN Jesus is lying." I'm sorry but that stretches things a bit too far for my liking.
Well you are the one injecting conjecture and not me. I have put verses, holy bible verses, side by side which proves Jesus lied. Remember. I haven't had to interpret anything, you are the one saying - ""If I interpret what Jesus says" ........
.......And that is why I will be interested in you response [ A] & [B] above.
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@BrotherDThomas
FAUXLAW,Any translation nonetheless has to be inspired by Jesus the Christ you outright Biblical fool! Therefore, it matters not of any version of any translation as shown at this time within the scriptures, including Greek translations, because any translation is the true word of Jesus, get it Bible fool? The end results of all scriptures remains the true words of Jesus the Christ as explicitly shown in the passage below, that is, if you do not want to call Jesus a LIAR in this respect which is blaspheme and the Unpardonable Sin!“And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13)
Well you beat me to it there Brother. I was saving that particular BIBLICAL point for the later.
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@fauxlaw
You still don't get it, do you? The word "secret" is a mis-translation into English.
Then is all you have to do is correct the "mistranslation" of the biblical word - secret - for us all, don't you?
It should be no problem to correct and interpret the word - secret - in these " god breathed" scriptures and in these biblical verses below in particular. Especially for a man that brags of being a student of ancient Greek language .#28
Now. For the third time
Here we are shown that Jesus met and spoke with others in secret and did things in secret. If secret doesn't mean what the ancient Greek lexicon says it means, then simply put these verses into context with what you believe to be their real intended meanings using your new interpretation and definition of the word - secret.
Off you go.
John 7:8-10
You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret".
John 19:38 "Later", Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away".
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@Polytheist-Witch
That's right Polly. A speaking snake/serpent that wasn't on it belly when it seduced and deceived Eve.
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@fauxlaw
Again you are purposefully missing the point..
The topic here is not what Jesus was teaching in secret, but the fact that he was teaching in secret.
I don't have a better suggestion .
You don't have anything.
But I have a suggestion for you. I suggest you take this on.
Here we are shown that Jesus met and spoke with others in secret and did things in secret. If secret doesn't mean what the ancient Greek lexicon says it means, then simply put these verses into context with what you believe to be their real intended meanings using your new interpretation and definition of the word - secret.
Off you go.
John 7:8-10
You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret".
John 19:38 "Later", Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away".
I will be displaying more lies spoken by Jesus in later posts.
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Well we , in the past, have done that particular issue and then you blocked me.
So I would rather you didn't post on my threads especially when you have the audacity to still have me blocked. Here is a reminder>>
about 8 months ago you created a whole thread dedicated to me, Titled:
Stephen has stolen my idea that Lucifer is Jesus. I am here to reclaim it.
and after you then apologised to me after accusing me of plagiarism #41, I accepted your apology and gave you a thumbs up for it. Then you blocked me. #42
So why you would want anything to do with me is incomprehensible to me. But you won't be the first to partake in this cowardly practice, I can assure you. It has even rubbed off on me, to my own disgust.
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How was it then that the once murderer of Christians was able to show a route to god without even having to believe themselves.
Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?
Maybe this was a "mistranslation" of those ancient Greek words " you don't have to believe" and they mean something else entirely. After all, who is the head of the whole Catholic Church - the Pope, to know and talk about such things?
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Jesus tempter was the Devil we are told.
Mathew4:1Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
Right off the bat this story falls apart if it is to be taken literally?Because immediately the “devil” begins his test by saying;
4:3“If you are the Son of God.” [?]command that these stones be made bread”.
When that didn’t go down as the devil thought it might, he had another go:
4:6 “If thou be the Son of God” [?] cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee”….
When this didn’t appear to bare fruit, the devil changed tactics by trying a bribe.
Mathew4: 8 Again,the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me”.
IF!? It appears then that the devil didn't even know who Jesus was.
It should be noticed too that, just like there was no witness to the conversation between Pilate and Jesus, or Nicodemus and Jesus, here too there wasn’t a single witness to this meeting in the desert, so how do the gospel writers know what was said? I do hope the Christians here will explain that for us?
Anyway,Jesus, you may not be surprised, refused the bribe and passed the test! And why wouldn’t he have? He was god and the son of god also wasn’t he, and everybody knew it didn’t they………. accept the devil it seems.
So how come that old devil Satan didn’t even recognise god when he seen him!?
After all, didn’t he exist with all the other heavenly beings even before mankind? Doesn’t Luke's gospel speak of Satan falling from that heavenly abode? Luke 10:18
Didn't god once tell Satan to his face that he would be on his belly eating dirt for the rest of his days? Genesis3:14
We know too that the devil had wagered face to face with god that ended with in the deaths of all of Jobs 10 children. Job1:6-7. (Christians have never explained how it came pass that Satan came to be “walking here and there”, roaming around the earth.” after being sentenced to crawl and eat dirt for ever?)
How is it that the “demon” calling himself legion recognised god/son of god and Satan didn’t? “He shouted at the top of his voice,“What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? Mark5:7
It appears that this ambiguous story of Satan testing god is beyond absurd, it is outright stupidity at its worst that only a child or the cretinous adult would believe.
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@fauxlaw
As usual, Stephen is ignoring the issues of language translation, [.........................................................]I, too, am a student of Greek
Nope.
I addressed the attempt to square this lie by blaming it on that good old favorite of the apologist - translation.. And I will address it further. Here we are shown that Jesus met and spoke with others in secret and did things in secret. If secret doesn't mean what the ancient Greek lexicon says it means, then simply put these verses into context with what you believe to be their real intended meanings using your new interpretation and definition of the word - secret.
Off you go.
John 7:8-10
You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret".
John 19:38 "Later", Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away.
I notice that you have unblocked me . Why ever would you do that after I was supposed you have treated you so, so bad ? #10 while forgetting that your first ever post to me on this forum was to infer that I was scum. What short memory you have.
I eventually blocked you months later in simple retaliation and your insistence and persistence of posting to me personally, on my own threads although YOU had blocked ME.. So remember you are still on block on my threads . Now either forget the Ad Hominem and sarcasms and address the questions related to the thread . OR LEAVE!<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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@Polytheist-Witch
Is there proof the secret conversations are relevent to the populous as a whole and not just a q and a session with an individual to their specific doubts.
It was obviously relevant to those Priests questioning Jesus about what he was teaching in secrecy. And a Q&A session is what one can expect in a trial.
But as to proving if this particular Q&A session actually took place is another matter.
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@BrotherDThomas
“EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5).
Indeed , Brother. The bible says that gods words are "flawless". And even in ancient Greek the word secret meant exactly the same then as it does to this day. And Jesus denies teaching anything in >>>>> secret.
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@Dr.Franklin
"disbelievers today" BULLSHIT!Was this a perquisite to Thomas?. Thomas , he that had witnessed the raising of Lazarus from the dead, and then point blank refused to believe Jesus was raised from the dead with the caveat "UNLESS".!? He appeared to him didn't he? THOMAS DISBELIVED didn't he?!!Yes, Thomas did disbelieve but he was of high importance AND Jesus appeared to OTHER apostles as well who were with Thomas.
So then why did he appear to a disbeliever , one that should have known better and not appear to believers and disbelievers today? Why no reprimand of Thomas for being "of little faith"? Yes Jesus appeared to others apostles but did they Demand proof of his resurrection before he showed himself to them? NO they hadn't had they.
Thomas did disbelieve but he was of high importance
Stop it , Doc. Thomas was the worst kind of disbeliever. He had witnessed the resurrection of Lazarus performed by Jesus yet didn't believe that his own lord was resurrected after being directly and specifically told by Jesus that he would rise after three days. And he wasn't punished or reprimanded.
tell me:
Why was Thomas allowed to tempt the lord when it is strictly forbidden? Or have you conveniently forgotten what Jesus himself said on the matter of tempting the Lord>>>
"Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"Matthew 4:7 ? As does Deuteronomy 6:16.
Why was Zechariah struck dumb for disbelieving and not Thomas? Luke 1:20
Why can Jesus not do the same for unbelievers today and show proof of his existence?I literally answered this already, atheists make ZERO effort to know Jesus and people like Paul were of high significance in the Bible,
But PAUL didn't believe, did he? And PAUL went further than simply not believing in Jesus or his followers that he considered heretics. He murdered them, yet Jesus made a personal appearance to, and held audience with, Paul after the accession, which means he came down and spoke with Paul the persecuting murder of members of Jesus own flock! And again there is no mention of "testing the lord" or of Paul being " of little faith", is there? And lets not forget what the scriptures have to say about disbelieving.
no atheist can compare to the Apostles
Like Thomas the disbeliever? And Peter the denier and liar.
I have asked you how is it that god is willing to appear to some disbelievers and not others or even those that do believe in him?AND you don't know do you?My point still stands- all you do is take a scripture you find, make some connection to atheism and then make the worst objections.
So,you don't know.
It may not "matter" to you Doc, but I am sure that it matters to many a disbelieving and believing mother kneeling and praying to Jesus at her terminally sick child's bedside.You simply cannot square the actions of your god , can you. You accuse me of being "all over the place" while ignoring the erratic and contradictive nature of your own god, Jesus.
Go away Doc. You have run out of excuses.
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