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@secularmerlin
As long as we agree that morality as you see it is irrational, I guess there’s nothing more to discuss ✌🏾 .
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@secularmerlin
I made this thread. It all concerns me.
I was simply pointing out the fact that I didn’t @ you when I made such comment, but something tells me you know that you’re just trying to be difficult, nonetheless if it concerns you all the same you would’ve responded to the post that I made specifically for you which you didn’t, instead you want to mess up the flow by bringing up messages intended for other people.
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@secularmerlin
To quote you how about you actually engage in our current dialogue before you worry about a conversation that doesn’t concern you.
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@secularmerlin
So where does emotions fit into that? Because I know for a fact I asked about emotions. Don’t play games with me.
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@secularmerlin
Emotions ARE NOT rational however.
Well that’s what I asked you dumbass, anyway the rest is all still the same.
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@3RU7AL
QUANTIFYING MORALITY IS THE FUNDAMENTAL CORE OF THIS ENTIRE CONVERSATION.
That’s assuming morality can be quantified.
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@Lemming
A humans still going to prefer certain moral systems, due to nature and nurture.
Not nihilists by definition.
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@3RU7AL
That’s a separate narrative that I don’t care to get into right now.
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@secularmerlin
You know what, I want to change my response to a previous post of yours because I feel like we’re just gonna end up back where we started anyway.
If having emotions makes you irrational then we are both irrational.If it doesn't then just having emotions doesn't mean I am.Are we both irrational or are we both capable of being rational?You can say either but you can't say both.
Why are you asking me when your the one that brought irrationality into the equation? Instead I’ll return the question back to you, does having emotions make you irrational? If your answer is yes then by default your admitting that morality as you see it is irrational and if your admitting to that then we don’t have to go any further because that’s where you and I agree, so feel free to correct me where I’m wrong regarding your mentality.
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@secularmerlin
And I only ask because THERE ARE ONLY CODES OF CONDUCT NOTHING MORE.
And I’m saying if you can’t prove your code to be better than a serial killers then your no different from me in regards to having faith in something you can’t prove, which is why I called you a hypocrite.
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@secularmerlin
So what am I doing when NOW SAYING I don’t object to the definition only the label of it?
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@3RU7AL
Fair enough, so instead I’ll say this I have no qualms with the definition rather I have qualms with the label of the definition, secularmerlin could’ve easily called what he was advocating for as a code of conduct and that would’ve been fine by me, but make no mistake just because you believe in a code of conduct that doesn’t make your code moral, it could mean your code is immoral, claiming otherwise requires proof which he hasn’t provided.
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@secularmerlin
So fine morality as defined by you is fictional and as defined by me is real but subjective.
Unless you can cite a dictionary that supports it then no it’s not.
The problem isn't demonstrating the proposition of morality as I define it
What makes you think I care about the proposition of morality as you define it? What I care about is morality as it is, and it’s not subjective.
You try again.
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@secularmerlin
BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT SHOWN IT TO NE OTHERWISE.
That argument works both ways buddy. Your such a hypocrite.
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@secularmerlin
You mean like you and subjective morality? Your such a hypocrite.
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@secularmerlin
This is laughable.
So subjectivity is laughable?
I'm going to go ahead and disregard this.
You go right ahead.
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@secularmerlin
Clearly there are other beliefs.
Do you know what as far as I’m concerned means?
Concept and reality are two different beasts.
I never said they were the same.
Not to mention the fact that there are after lives that don't include hell and they have equally good evidence to your proposal because zero and zero are equal.
Every time you say this you give me the pleasure of asking the question, yet you still haven’t answered the call, so why bother going there again?
What a good excuse you have given yourself not to address all my points. Good job.
Thank you.
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@secularmerlin
Yes it is. Whichever car you choose you to drive are no longer walking. No matter what beliefs you choose you are not a nihilist.
Difference is there is no other beliefs (as far as I’m concerned).
Not every hypothetical higher power includes the baked in idea of a hell.
Did I say that? Or was I strictly speaking from my perspective, and who are you to tell me what that is.
You believe in something you don't know right now.
What are you talking about? Many people know the concept of an afterlife (even nonbelievers) so how about you try again with making sense.
Nihilism has not helped you determine WHICH non nihilistic philosophy to imagine is true.
Yes it did and since I know me better than you do, I think I my word holds more weight than yours.
I'm asking where you got your ideas about hell. Who told you there was one and why did you believe them?
Actually you asked me why I have faith and I told you my answer as to why as of now.
You realize of course that if they had told you about buhda and nirvana instead you would now be a bhudist... statistically speaking
I think we have enough on our plate as of now, let’s not discuss statistics.
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@zedvictor4
So, when did I say that?
That was the vibe I was getting when you said social conditioning as an answer.
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@secularmerlin
what you are really doing is believing in some stuff rather than no stuff.
...But I do believe in some stuff.
If your entire goal is just to believe in SOMETHING why believe in your specific thing? Can't you believe absolutely anything you want on faith?
But that’s not my goal, and belief isn’t always predicated on what you want it’s predicated on what you think is realistic, quit yanking my chain this is all elementary stuff.
It's like you are saying you chose an oldsmobile instead of a Kia because you don't like to walk.
...No, it’s not like that at all.
In neither case are you a nihilist so why are the specifics important?
Because nihilism is what life looks like without a higher power (to me at least).
Why not just believe in the bhuda and nirvana?
I’m not too familiar with either one, so I can’t believe in something that I don’t know about.
Try to answer my actual questions instead of some tangential factors that are BESIDES THE POINT.
How can you possibly know what is or isn’t besides the point in regards to MYSELF, unless your claiming to know me better than I know myself and in that case you shouldn’t need to ask questions, so how about you tell me?
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@secularmerlin
Faith and nihilism are like water and oil they just WILL NOT mix.
Perhaps I should’ve been more clear (although after all this time I thought you knew what I meant) my reasons for rejecting of nihilism is the foundation for my faith. On a different note since your so hell bent son rejecting my nihilism answer as if you know me better than myself, I guess you don’t need to ask any further questions, in fact how about you tell me why I have faith?
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@zedvictor4
So humans aren’t capable of thinking for themselves, they don’t have minds of their own? I strongly disagree, especially since I know of the contrary, there’s been numerous times people rebelled against the teachings of their parents or society due to there independent thinking and realization that a lot that was taught to them was bulljive.
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@secularmerlin
I think nihilist is a useless term since neither of us is a nihilist.
It’s useful because I used it as a foundation for my faith.
IF lots of people who aren't nihilists don't believe in hell THEN believing in hell has not a damn thing to do with nihilism and it is not a part of the discussion of why you believe.Stop making excuses.
I addressed this stupid argument already, try again.
Why not just believe something else?
Like what?
Does it matter which comfortable and uncomplicated fiction you believe in?
Really? You’re resorting back to this, clearly you got nothing left in the tank, get some sleep dude your gonna need it.
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@secularmerlin
Yeah double negatives cancel themselves out. That is the flaw in your argument. I'm pointing it out to you. Glad you spotted that.
Which was my intention considering I’m a believer, that’s not a flaw it’s the truth. You on the other hand contradicted yourself within a separate manner, don’t conflate that with me you hypocrite.
It does if you CHOOSE what you believe.
No it doesn’t, you really thought you were doing something with whatever that was did you?
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@secularmerlin
The lack of nihilism is a meaningless term. That just means you believe something it doesn't have to be your beliefs.
You just contradicted yourself by calling something meaningless and in the next breath explaining its meaning.
Since dropping your beliefs doesn't have to end in nihilism nihilism isn't why you keep them.
Just because dropping a belief doesn’t necessitate a certain result doesn’t mean that certain result can’t be a reason as to why I picked the belief up, your inability to understand that is a you problem.
Not excuses just facts.
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@secularmerlin
No stupid, it’s entirely possible for me to acknowledge that not all believers are nihilists and have nihilism (or lack thereof) as the foundation for my faith, the two aren’t mutually exclusive. And last time I checked excuses can be reasons, for example if a child doesn’t go to school, a good excuse is because they’re physically ill with COVID-19, it’s a good reason as well.
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@secularmerlin
Believing in hell or being a nihilist is a FAKSE DICHOTOMY a black and white fallacy. A logical error in your argument.
And so is lying on my behalf, I never said that those who don’t believe in hell are nihilists.
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@secularmerlin
Keep that same energy when I ask you questions and you can’t answer them, I mean aren’t you that same guy that said skepticism is the default, but when I’m skeptical in regards to not believing in hell and not being a nihilist you question it, your hypocrisy is ridiculous.
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@secularmerlin
It’s not my job to explain why something doesn’t make sense, if your the one advocating for it then you explain why it does.
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@secularmerlin
Because that makes even less sense then nihilism.
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@secularmerlin
Why do you have faith? You certainly don't have evidence.
Do you know what faith is? It means in spite of evidence you believe anyway, and I already told you why I have faith.
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@secularmerlin
You said you are afraid of hell because of nihilism.
Correction, I said I’m afraid of hell because of my faith in its existence.
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@secularmerlin
You don't have to be a nihilist or even an atheist in order to consider hell a fiction.
Did I say that?
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@secularmerlin
Not really. Not until you engage the conversation instead of being obdurate in its face.
Just like how you determine your energy, I determine how I engage thanks just the same.
Why?
Because nihilism seems confusing and depressing to me.
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@secularmerlin
I determine my own energy thanks just the same.
Yeah well I have every right to call you out for being inconsistent, that’s what that phrase means.
So why are you so afraid to go to a place you don't even have evidence of?
Because I have faith.
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@secularmerlin
WE can treat ot like a fiction.
Keep that same energy when you ask me questions about it.
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@secularmerlin
Tell me when in this discussion has being careful with my language made a difference?
Only you can know your true intentions so how careful you are in your delivery of that isn’t up to me to know, the only thing I have access to is your words to draw from and I know if you initially argued skepticism rather than definitive fiction the response would’ve been different hence why I mentioned the difference.
Unless you can demonstrate hell it is fictional.
What makes me the end all be all in regards to fiction/nonfiction?
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@secularmerlin
Saying your not convinced is different from definitively declaring something as fictional, I’m asking how do you know?
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@secularmerlin
No, I’m saying you can’t use me as an answer when you know nothing about my answer in regards to subjects we haven’t discussed, I can know something is fictional and arrive at the conclusion a different way I know something else as fictional.
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@secularmerlin
Where do you recall me ever discussing Bigfoot and the tooth fairy with you?
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@secularmerlin
Well if it doesn’t exist, I guess the nihilists are the only ones that are rational.
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@secularmerlin
Now your asking me? Sure I’ll answer, emotions are only logical if they’re grounded in logic, such as fear of going to hell.
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@secularmerlin
Neither of us is rational.
If a person that deems themself irrational thinks the same of me then I guess I’ve done my job, good day.
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@zedvictor4
Social conditioning.
Is that the case for you, because at some point you have to have a mind of your own regarding what information your going to accept and/or decline, especially since you have access to all different kinds of information around you whichever one you listen to is ultimately your choice.
That is to say, that he was formerly taught to accept, without question.
Kinda like your answer regarding social conditioning, huh.
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@secularmerlin
I don’t see the point of you continuing to stress the same argument but I agree you aren’t rational.
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@secularmerlin
You admitting that your not rational is all I needed to hear. Deuces ✌🏾.
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