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@secularmerlin
...Whatever, in that case what’s selfish about proving for the needs of others?
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@secularmerlin
Caring for others = providing for their needs
Prove it.
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@secularmerlin
At some point your failure to be able to understand my point is more of a you problem than a me problem.
Excuse me? No sir, your inability to adequately articulate your point is a YOU problem NOT a ME problem, I understand ENGLISH just fine thank you very much, come correct next time otherwise have a nice day ✌🏾.
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@secularmerlin
nonetheless you conceded that you can’t prove your first premise so as far as this discussion is concerned the whole syllogism collapses miserably.
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@secularmerlin
I cannot prove care if we cannot agree on a definition.
That’s not how semantics works, the definitions of words isn’t predicated on whether or not you and I agree on them their meanings are beyond us, nonetheless you conceded that you can’t prove your first premise so as far as this discussion is concerned the whole syllogism collapses miserably.
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@secularmerlin
...And I answered the call once I mentioned hatred, you asking me what caring looks like is a separate narrative, you can’t fairly leapfrog the subject without proving your claim.
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@secularmerlin
Don’t try to move the goal post over here, this is YOUR forum if your gonna make BOLD claims then your gonna have to prove them period.
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@secularmerlin
Ever heard of something called hatred? Well you can have that for someone you’ve made SOCIAL CONTACT with, are you seriously going to equate caring to hatred?
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@secularmerlin
Humans require social contact.
I didn’t say to prove they need social contact, I asked to prove they need to care for others there’s a difference.
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@secularmerlin
P1 you cannot survive without others to care for and about you.
Prove it.
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@secularmerlin
Even if that is true you can still cooperate without caring for one another, and I mean exactly what your saying if your gonna make BOLD claims like you can’t survive without caring for another human then your gonna have to prove it period.
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@secularmerlin
The point isn't that we all do the point is that it is counterproductive not too.
In terms of survival? Like I said before prove it.
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@secularmerlin
Just that, it doesn’t tell us that every living breathing human is caring for other living breathing humans.
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@secularmerlin
No, I’m suggesting that one can survive WITHOUT caring for others.
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@secularmerlin
We MUST care for each other or survival would be impossible.
Prove it
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@secularmerlin
Yes and acknowledging you need others to survive isn’t equivalent to caring for them.
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@secularmerlin
Even if that is true that has nothing to do with caring.
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@secularmerlin
Then for the second time, what is secular morality? Because the first time I asked you defined it as just that (or something along those lines).
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@secularmerlin
Yeah a lot of them being me noting how obvious this forum is, anybody can make a lot of posts on a forum, that doesn’t mean a lot more can be said on the subject that hasn’t already been said or known.
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@secularmerlin
But it’s not really a subject you can discuss at length though, because it’s so obvious.
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@secularmerlin
...Really? The point is there’s a bunch of obvious observations you could’ve made a forum on yet you chose this one why?
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@secularmerlin
So the point of this forum is to tell the users something they already know? Why stop here why not make another forum talking about the sky being blue?
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@FLRW
So animals that developed self preserving morals became the dominating species over those that did not.
...So what?
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@secularmerlin
but if they could and if they did
There’s no but they can’t and they don’t because A.F.S.F.S.M. doesn’t tell them anything that they don’t already know.
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@secularmerlin
literally any organisms that strive to survive wouldn’t reasonably ask "why be moral if the universe doesn't care?"
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@secularmerlin
ONLY
So what other place can it come from because that argument isn’t responsive either way.
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@secularmerlin
This IS the reason it doesn't matter to my argument.
Then your argument is unresponsive to the question "why be moral if the universe doesn't care?" especially if it’s coming from a place of planning to commit suicide.
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@secularmerlin
By definition it doesn't matter to my argument at all.
Then why’d you say “The dead do not concern themselves with morality or anything else as far as I know.”
Are you seriously suggesting that all or even most organisms commit suicide as opposed to literally any other cause of death?
No but for arguments sake how can you ignore them?
Lastly what does A.F.S.F.S.M. stand for anyway?
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@secularmerlin
The dead do not concern themselves with morality or anything else as far as I know.
Why does that matter? The dead were once alive and clearly your A.F.S.F.S.M. argument wasn’t enough to convince them from offing themselves so no it still doesn’t suffice as an answer.
Lastly what does A.F.S.F.S.M. stand for anyway?
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@secularmerlin
If the question is "why be moral if the universe doesn't care?" then the answer is the A.F.S.F.S.M.
I don’t know if that suffices as an answer though since it doesn’t apply to those that are not alive.
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@secularmerlin
Fine to answer your question I guess I’ll say there is no flaws but I have this feeling that my answer is a bit premature because I’m still missing the point of this forum, you deem it as merely an observation but there’s plenty other common sense observations you haven’t posted about so why this one?
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@secularmerlin
Did you not see my immortality point because I would say that’s a flaw, if “secular morality” is simply just surviving then its an argument that can’t last forever because we’re not immortal.
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@secularmerlin
I am just making an observation which explains human behavior
People surviving up until the point that they’re not is an observation you felt the need to make a forum about? Don’t really see the point in that but okay.
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@secularmerlin
mutual survival.
Long story short it’s basically just this? Okay my question to you is what group of people are you trying to convince with this? Because everybody that can see it clearly has “survived” to that point, unless your trying to convince a dead person. Are you arguing in favor of immortality and everybody that passes does so by choice? Like seriously dude what’s your angle here?
Fair enough but let's not complicate thing unnecessarily for Tarik shall we?
Why would that complicate things? I originally agreed with that line of reasoning just didn’t care to argue it until you threw shade.
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@secularmerlin
What is secular morality? “Just be careful not to define morals out of existence.”
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@secularmerlin
That is the NECESSARY structure of a syllogism.
That’s not what I asked you, I’m asking you why does this SPECIFIC syllogism interests you, and you’ve yet to prove that caring about your life is “secularly moral” (whatever that is).
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@secularmerlin
Why do you concern yourself so much with this syllogism? Considering it’s predicated on what ifs rather than what is.
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@n8nrgmi
Opinionated things, such as tastes in food or music.
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But doesn’t that raise the question as to why you care about others suffering? Unless your willing to accept the ultimate answer you can literally why to no end and you’ll never get the opportunity to take your pills (I too don’t like to accept benefits before accomplishing a goal).
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@3RU7AL
Aren't we still using the same words?
We very well may be, but we’re also creating new words that didn’t exist in 1806.
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@3RU7AL
Why don't we all use the original?
I don’t know, just on the top of my head maybe it has something to do with the fact that it’s 2021 and NOT 1806.
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@3RU7AL
...Not even, that’s kinda the purpose of a dictionary, to know what words mean.
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@3RU7AL
COMPARE
AND CONTRAST
No need (see the link above).
Please use your magical dictionary to help you understand the full meaning of the term, "JARGON".
I did, although it’s not relevant to the discussion at hand.
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