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@3RU7AL
(IFF) you want to bifurcate ACTION and MOTIVE (THEN) you need to speak about SPECIFIC (motiveless) actions.
(OR) I can simply ask in regards to the action alone (which I did).
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@secularmerlin
Your argument included providing for someone else (which is an action not a motive BTW).
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@3RU7AL
HOW you attempt to "provide for someone" specifically is an action.
I get that, I was simply asking in regards to this.
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@secularmerlin
... 🥱 I don’t know if your just slow or whatever the case may be but for the umpteenth time providing for someone isn’t a motive it’s an action and the action was in question not the motive.
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@secularmerlin
It is when I've done so before
No all you’ve done was tell lies and contradict yourself for example
How do you determine what an action is CHEIFLY concerned with?
It is because actions are not in and of themselves CHEIFLY concerned with anything.
...Contradiction at its finest 🥱
You see unlike you I actually support my claims 👏🏾 .
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@3RU7AL
Full exploration of the definition on the table is PREREQUISITE to building a shared framework that will make (communication of) agreement (or specific disagreement) possible.
...So? We did that already seculars the one that went against the grain and conflated two different terms that the definition specifically kept separate.
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@secularmerlin
So me telling you to support your claims is the equivalence to me sending you on a random goose chase leading to nowhere? Glad we can agree on that.
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@secularmerlin
Like look for yourself.
Don’t send me on some random goose chase leading to nowhere, if your gonna accuse me of stuff then support it otherwise it’s nothing more than a lie and apparently you found the time to “bother” to lie on my name so save me the “why bother” b.s.
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@3RU7AL
(that included the term "motive")
That’s because the discussion wasn’t in regards to every facet of the definition.
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@3RU7AL
Every human action sprouts from SURVIVAL INSTINCT.
That’s simply not true, take the action of donating to charity for example that has no bearing on your survival (if anything it makes you less likely to survive, especially if you donate your whole livelihood away).
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@secularmerlin
twisting and turning
What did I twist and turn, specifically?
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@secularmerlin
I dropped you many lines yet you choose to ask me the same answered questions over and over again as if that progresses anything, and I ain’t here for that so ✌🏾.
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@secularmerlin
It is because actions are not in and of themselves CHEIFLY concerned with anything.
So in other words the action ISN’T selfish, you’ve conceded to that point for the SECOND time, glad we’ve come to an agreement, good for you dude 👏🏾.
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@secularmerlin
You have not demonstrated a flaw in the structure of the argument. All your objections are tangential and I tried to address them anyway. I have been as generous an interlocutor as possible and you have done nothing but put up roadblocks to honest and open communication.
...🥱 If that’s what you gotta tell yourself 🤷🏾♂️ .
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@secularmerlin
Stop asking me the same tired questions over and over again, I literally predicted this post before you posted it, clearly you have nothing else to contribute to this discussion. Your syllogism is flawed period.
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@secularmerlin
Your conflating the motive with the action again, those are two different things regardless of whether or not one is predicated on the other.
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@secularmerlin
The robbery and the selling is two different crimes, the robbery being selfish and the selling being unselfish.
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@secularmerlin
Never mind, I would argue the criminal activity isn’t selfish if others are benefiting from it too.
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@secularmerlin
The difference between doing your job and not doing your job, are you seriously asking me that?
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@secularmerlin
If all members of a criminal organization benefit from the selfish actions
Correction they benefit from doing their job if they didn’t do that they would have no benefits.
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@secularmerlin
...And? A criminal organization isn’t every single person who isn't me.
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@secularmerlin
I am suggesting that the MOTIVATION determines whether or not an action even IS for someone.
If SOMEONE ELSE is benefiting from the action then regardless of the motivation behind it it doesn’t change the fact that SOMEONE ELSE benefited period.
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@secularmerlin
...Hold the damn phone, are you suggesting that providing for someone else isn’t for someone else?
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@secularmerlin
CHEIFLY concerned with?
Providing for someone else is concerned with just that SOMEONE ELSE.
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@secularmerlin
Quit yanking my chain, clearly you can’t prove your selfish claim, so as far as this discussion is concerned I guess for now you can refer to your little acronym as A.F.S.M.
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@secularmerlin
ONLY because
That’s your problem, you keep conflating the why’s with the action itself and those are two different things.
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@secularmerlin
Don’t ask me that, YOU’RE THE ONE claiming that providing for someone else is selfish so the burden of proof is on YOU.
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@secularmerlin
It is interconnected.
But they’re not the same making it a DIFFERENT narrative.
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@secularmerlin
PREDICATED on
Doesn’t matter it’s still separate from the narrative in question.
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@secularmerlin
It is not for someone else if it is motivated by self interest.
I told you before the motive is a SEPARATE narrative from the action, and the action is in question NOT the motive.
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@secularmerlin
What do you mean "at the cost of?"
Why are you so hung up on that? If you omit that line from the quote the meaning is still the same.
But it isn’t chiefly in one’s own profit or pleasure if it’s for SOMEONE ELSE.
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@secularmerlin
Providing for someone else isn’t selfish, and you already conceded to that point so no need to revisit it.
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@secularmerlin
You’ve asked me this before and I answered
By looking at whether or not the action lacks consideration for others or is concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.
But it isn’t chiefly in one’s own profit or pleasure if it’s at the cost of providing for SOMEONE ELSE.
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@secularmerlin
Actions are neither selfless nor selfish on their own devoid of context.
If the context your referring to is the motive behind the action then that’s a separate narrative from the action in question, but nonetheless you conceded that providing for someone else (an action BTW) isn’t selfish so I guess for now you can refer to your little acronym as A.F.S.M.
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@Sum1hugme
I argued this point previously and he conceded his argument isn’t responsive to that which is a huge flaw.
I too agree he puts too much emphasis on hypotheticals.
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@secularmerlin
It is if your MOTIVES are selfish.
Providing for others because they provide for you isn’t selfish because the action cancels out the motive.
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@secularmerlin
How do we determine if an ACTION is selfish if not by the MOTIVE behind it?
By looking at whether or not the action lacks consideration for others or is concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.
But it isn’t chiefly in one’s own profit or pleasure if it’s at the cost of providing for SOMEONE ELSE.
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@secularmerlin
Not ignoring anything but we are discussing motive in this case.
We’re ALSO discussing actions.
How do we determine if an ACTION is selfish if not by the MOTIVE behind it?
This is a separate narrative that I don’t care to get into right now.
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@secularmerlin
Being selfish is about one's motives not one's actions.
Selfish-(of a person, ACTION, or motive) lacking consideration for other people; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.
I love how you omit the bold when presenting the definition, nice try.
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@secularmerlin
Motive- a reason for DOING something.
Doing something is an action.
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@secularmerlin
Selfish = being chiefly interested in one's own profit or pleasure.
But it isn’t chiefly in one’s own profit or pleasure if it’s at the cost of providing for SOMEONE ELSE.
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@secularmerlin
well you could call that a little selfish.
How? There’s nothing selfish about treating others the same way they treat me.
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