TheRealNihilist

Since it's a felony, if they did it in Mexico, they wouldn't be allowed in the US.  We are a nation of immigrants, not a nation of criminals.

If they commit a misdemeanor by US standards, then they would be allowed in to the country as soon as their punishment is done by country of origin's standards (assuming they meet all other requirements).

However, if your going to come to work at McDonalds or some job that Americans already have and jobs that won't get improved by you doing it, those are jobs that threaten American workers and any low skilled job that Americans already have, immigrants shouldn't be doing.  

If they are a better engineer, doctor, architect, etc then they can get a greencard if they meet the 1st 2 requirements.

It would be a regulation for immigrants.  The rate wouldn't be that high, I'm aiming for .5% annually more then inflation.  This way, they have some incentive to pay it off without breaking the bank on their end.

I hope they are honest about their answers.  If it turns out that too many immigrants are lying to get votes and to vote democrat, then no immigrant would be allowed to vote, but their children can.

It flies smack in the face of the 1st Amendment and shows an utter lack of regard for the faith traditions which long, long preceded the modern LGBT rights movement.

LGBT is not something like skin color or ethnicity. It is an artificially constructed identity that some modern people have chosen for themselves based on a pre-existing characteristic which regardless did not warrant the construction of an identity around.

It erodes the common trust and understanding which is the foundation of any functioning society.

Simply treating people like people is the only way pluralism can work. There must be something that transcends identity politics. Instead, we're just sinking our heels in and digging ourselves deeper into a hole.

They wouldn't get in unless their crime would have only amounted in a fine as punishment.

Depends on the crime.  If they commit a misdemeanor by US standards, then they would be allowed in to the country as soon as their punishment is done by country of origin's standards (assuming they meet all other requirements).  If they commit a felony by US standards, then they aren't allowed in the country.

For companies, it's good, but for the America worker, it's not.  We need an immigration system that benefits everyone.

I don't want the immigrants to be a burden to the gov(government).  If the gov gives them money, they need to pay the loan back.  Interest rate would be low.

I would base it upon American standards.  All immigrants would have to take a political ideology quiz that is around 100 questions long in order to see where they are.

Freedom of political beliefs should be supported, not disencouraged.

So what if my political belief is to murder people? Should that be supported?

I didn't say this, Supadudz did.

Omar- I don't know how well that fits him

Can’t be convicted of any felony under US law in the past unless proven innocent in all convicted felony/felonies.  No exception to minors

Must have a steady, consistent job that benefits America and doesn’t take jobs from people already here.  Can’t be on welfare. Exception to minors

Must know English fluently.  If you don’t know it, you would be legally required to learn it in courses that you pay for.  If you can’t afford it, you would have to take out a loan. No exception to minors

Can’t upset the political balance in the country.  We don’t need to import a bunch of liberals or conservatives.  We need a balance, otherwise this country would become liberal.  No exception to minors.

Freedom of political beliefs should be supported, not disencouraged.

I mean, it's not like the people who write the history textbooks for public schools are like "Oh, the guy who invented this or who did that was gay? Let's just not talk about him them."

I am bisexual and the LGBT community needs to be less promiscuous if they wish to eliminate the STDs from their community.

Given that 73 percent of HIV diagnosis are from LGBT people,

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html states that it is 67 percent.  I was a little off.  Still a majority.

I am bisexual and the LGBT community needs to be less promiscuous if they wish to eliminate the STDs from their community.  Given that 73 percent of HIV diagnosis are from LGBT people,

You may provide a real life example.

Slavery pretty much made blacks second class citizens. I am going to go off a limb to say they were beholden to their masters and if they didn't listen to their masters they would either face punishment by their masters which have have them as property which is protected by the state. 

Innocent is a legal term.  Criminals deserve to be punished according to their crime.  Do something small, like speed, and you could pay merely a fine.  Commit murder or high treason, and you could face the death penalty.

None of this really answers what I said. You just simply stated what innocent is and didn't say how I was wrong or why you shouldn't change your definition of innocent. So is innocence still tied to crimes enforced by the government? 

disgusted

I would say anyone unwilling to pay a Reproduction maintenance tax, whether they can afford it or got, gets a painless castration or becomes infertile permanently some other way.

Trash takers aren't super poor.  Their hourly salary is $15.29 on average.  People usually clan their own toilets.  The poor people will be mainly those who are long term unemployed and minimum wage working adults.  

They might get filled with automation.  The government could give low interest loans to companies encouraging them to automate their workforce in minimum wage jobs.  This way, the poor people would have to find a different job.  The job that they would get would depend on their abilities and interests.

Eventually, but not right away.  If humanity gets too much better too fast, it would result in a low population count.  We need to gradually get better as a specie by infertilizing all the undesirables.

You may provide a real life example.

Innocent is a legal term.  Criminals deserve to be punished according to their crime.  Do something small, like speed, and you could pay merely a fine.  Commit murder or high treason, and you could face the death penalty.

If we get rid of all the poor, stupid people(no genocide, but we merely don't allow them to reproduce) then it decreases our population and that population would get replaced by affluent, intelligent people.  This would be better for society.

Sadly, no.

It would be an extremely unjustified and racist law and wouldn't last.  Despite that, whites wouldn't be innocent under the law.  There should and will be a rebellion by the whites and their supporters for equal rights to non-whites.

Anyone that has not committed a crime.

The Pro lifers are consistent; Pro innocent human life but pro life for shorthand

There are no established rules with time travel (really)... so these writers can make things up. If you watch the series, they do make things up like negative tacions and crap like that. What i see is that they are trying... which is good to me since i don't look for mess-ups. But it does peak my interest when i see they are trying to make sense of things... and, that is at least noticeable. But honestly, you don't have to watch these series to notice the trying... if you're into comics, or even those animated series... you likely notice what i'm talking about in regards to trying to make it fit. 

I like what comics is doing with this stuff, since my beliefs, if you took anything away from our other conversations, is a hope that worlds like these are hopefully possible. 

Well, i think with series and comics, they do actually try.

Funny, in your last comment i think you said it's a teen thing... i guess i'm an annoying teen at heart, bc i love it. But then again, i love anything that is fantasy or sci-fy... so... it really has to be horrible for me to not like it. But i haven't found one that horrible yet...

Oh... I just remembered... i just watched Legion on Hulu... that was bad-ass and messed with my mind. Since Legion is suppose to be one of the most powerful mutants there is... i'm excited to see where that ends up, but i would recommend that show. 

you can fully explain all the angles. Plus, even if you mess up... you can go back and just make up reasons for why it didn't happen the way everyone thought.

You just have more time to be creative. For instance, if Avengers was a TV series... they can fix all the plot-holes people talked about in the next show (or few shows or even season). That's all i mean about having more time to explain these powers in detail. But if you like these types of shows...

i'd suggest starting off with Arrow. It's actually pretty darn good.

DC is doing really good on the TV series side in my opinion. Edit: This is the order (which matters bc they cross-over down the line) Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow. 

From what i can remember, every time he goes into the past he creates a new timeline if he changes something big. But i don't remember that far back into the season to remember if they covered all grounds. I actually don't remember the flashpoint episodes at all to be honest. I'd have to rewatch them. As for the running back in time... i think that bc he goes into the speed force and goes back in time through that... but again, can't remember. I really never pay full attention to look for plot-holes. All i know is they are less noticeable in TV series to me bc they have more time to set them up i think.  

Edit: Btw... i was talking about the live-action TV series. They are all on Netflix which is where i watch them. 

boredom mostly.

You could have made the entire debate about his position on Abortion.

the Flash / Legends of Tomorrow series covers a lot of time travel stuff and i think they do it pretty good. They got deep with it (multi-verse, timeline changes, branched realities, things they made up). I haven't fully payed attention to find plot-holes, but it isn't as easily noticeable as the time-travel plot-holes in movies.

Do you watch any of the DC verse series?

I blocked you for throwing Ad Homs at me in a science thread. While I would have let it slide in a politics forum, doing that in a SCIENCE thread is over the top.

You can talk veganism to your heart's content in this thread. I would like that. I am rather ignorant when it comes to veganism.

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/1767?page=3

I'm still not sure what kind of philosophy you might have.  Here is a random link I read later to post on page 5, maybe of interest to you?

https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2016/11/17914/

I thought you were against all guns.  I might be wrong on this.

Well, I shouldn't advocate for banning guns because if I do that, then criminals will get guns illegally and commit homicide against people that they know can't defend themselves, so murder skyrockets.

1) Would you classify yourself as right wing or left wing?

2) Would you agree to the following compromise:

-AK 47s banned nationwide.

-Abortions banned nationwide.

New offer; Only guns allowed are pistols, rifles, and shotguns in exchange for banning abortions nationwide.  Would you accept?

The rest of the stuff... i don't try to think about too much... like plot-holes of the time travel. Simply bc the biggest plot hole is that Thanos had all the stones... he was basically at god level. All he had to do was use the time stone to know what happened. So... i really don't think about that much bc it's hard to make a movie with these kinds of powers. You'd really have to focus on the powers then (explaining them, their limitations, their weaknesses, their loopholes, etc.) and not the talking/character development. It's something they needed to set up long time ago. 

The ultimate question is this - How good is someone at debating? Well, the numbers can help with that, but when there are a significant number of ties it tends to muddy things up when it comes to win percentages. Perhaps to do as omar2345 suggests, but to additionally report tie percentages right next to the win/loss percentages. If a user has, for example, a 100% win/loss percentage but an unusually high tie percentage it would be somewhat of an asterisk, but perhaps a deserved one.

According to the left, non-consenting colonialism is racist.

She called cauliflower, "colonizers".  That's close to calling a vegetable racist.

False-Equivalence fallacy

Briefresponses 

“I said if he wasstraight this epidemic would not have spread. That is a reasonable position tohold, one which this time I will base upon statistics and likelihood.”

“Okay? Even if all ofthese things are true, they don’t somehow become relevant to homosexualitybeing harmful or not.”

“I disagree, these gay people wouldnot have AIDs if they were straight. We wouldn’t have to focus on education andtreatment if there was no artificially created problem in the first place.”

“That doesn’t change it’s accuracy. I realizeit’s hard to find studies on fecal sex – but simply claiming it’s old doesn’tchange the veracity. However weak a statistic, you must provide something tocounter it. I might even level a similar objection at you: how could youpossibly expect me to accept sources over a year old?”

“The hepatitis and general filth. It’s not just a“weird kink,” it’s directly harmful with potentially lethal consequence. Ifskewering people through the eyeball was my “weird kink” you might second guessit.”

“If you are so sure that homosexuals are evil thenthe statistic should be published fairly recently,
 
Especially considering the medical and educationadvancements made in the past few decades. And the overall changes in society.” 
 

““Gaetan Dugas, the first known carrier of the STDwas a gay flight attendant (who I kid you not) flew all over the country andfucked as many men as he was able, thus starting the epidemic..”
 
·         My opponent is once again being logically inconsistent or absurd,
 
If you’re going to blame ONE gay pilot as an excuseto purport this to an entire population of millions of gays,
 
Then by logical extension, I could blame the KKKand proportionate that to the entirety to the south.
 
Or a few radical civil rights riots to the entiretyof the civil rights movement.
 
“ This is a gay plague because without them the STDwould simply be a non-issue. “
 
·         Ok, and without heterosexuals, unwanted pregnancies wouldn’t be anissue.
 
·         Without white people, mass shootings wouldn’t happen nearly as often.
 
·         Without blacks, crime wouldn’t be that rampant.”

“Regardless of whether or not homosexualscontract aids the most, the problem isn’t homosexuality, the problem isdisease, education, and finding treatments.”
 

“STDs, and Lifetime Expectancy”

“Rates are commonly waved off by supporters asbeing symptomatic of the groups behavior. While this is partially true, itdiscludes the more important portion. Lest you misattribute HIV rates topromiscuity or unsafe practices exclusively, here are some medically acceptedreasons homosexuals spread HIV more rapidly. It’s simply biology that increasestheir rate of contraction. (HIV has more affinity to rectal tissue, higher riskof trauma, anal fluids contain 2500% more of the virus thansperm, the skin walls inside the rectum aren’t as thick, etc)”

“Most homosexuals won’t even live long enough forthis type of longevity to be a concern. The average age of death for them is30-42 years old depending on cause of death. Less than 2% of them survive toold age. [1]”

“I also never denied sex was beneficial in somemanners. I said it was dangerous, and sexual deviancy such as homosexuality isinnately harmful.”

“He is implying that because black and whitepeople have been harmful to society in some way, they are analogous to myarguments about homosexualities harmful nature. Both are harmful to society inone way or another, but homosexuality is innately harmful and for entirelydifferent reasons.”

Suicide Rates

“Homosexuality does not necessitate commitment, andis universally associated with rates of promiscuity and other deviancies suchas fecal sex. Around 80% of homosexuals admitted to sticking their tongue intotheir partners anus [2], thus ingesting a medically significant amount of fecesand increasing hepatitis. The vast majority of homosexuals have over 100lifetime partners[3] - the average for a straight male is 7, according to theCDC.
 
Thus, we can see how homosexuality is necessarilycorrolated to both promiscuity and deviant behavior.” 

Sources

“Both of which according to the same article arethe two deadliest around the world with almost 8.8 M deaths of people dyingfrom Heart disease in 2015 and another Strokes accounting for 6.2 milliondeaths in 2015. 
 
Both of which mind you take up large percentages ofthe deaths worldwide both ranging from 10-15 %.
So yes actuallylowering your blood pressure would actually more than likely help you more thandying of aids would which according to damien.org comparatively only 1 milliondied in 2013.”

“I mean ok homosexuals account for the majority ofaids related contractions. 
 
Sexual diseases and problems exist in every sexualrelationship whether it be gay or straight, this isn't exclusive to one or theother.
 
For instance, the unwanted pregnancy rates are 100% due to heterosexuals, while the gay community actually aids the ongoingorphanage issue by adopting children.
 
According to my own opponents arguement,heterosexuality is harmful to society which is plainly absurd, each has issuesyes but this doesn't make them harmful to society especially with the overallhealth benefits both of them have.”

“By my opponentsOWN logic by appealing to statistical data arguments, he believes black peopleare harmful to society. 
My opponents point on murder rate and culture aswell can be applied to homosexuals, homosexuals aids rate and culture is thefault, not homosexuality itself.
 
Therefore my opponent contradicts himself, I restmy case on this point.”

“Yet anotherobvious red herring as once again my opponent is missing the overall flaw intheir logic. 
 
School shootingsare common, there have been around 288 school shootings since 2009, tell methis isn't a problem in society? 
 
Regardless ofpopulation size, this is irrelevant what if homosexuals were more common insociety?
 
What abouthomosexuals living in poor home environments or mentally ill? 
 
Very obviouslyacross these two points, the issue seems clear.
 
My opponents veryown logic can be applied to homosexuals as well, or any of the other instancesI brought up.”

“Which once again this sort of logic would statethat, 
 
- Blacks are evil since they have the highest crimerate
 
- Whites are evil since they have the highest massshooting rate
 
- People ages 45-64 are evil since they have thehighest rate of suicide 
 
So yes these arguments aren't simply afalse-equivalence, my opponent is obviously misusing the term.”

“However, it's veryobvious these high levels of hate crimes targeted against the homosexualcommunity surely must be an adaquete reason as to why they have lower lifeexpectancies.”  
This was rebuttingheterosexuals have a higher life expectancy. Note that this does not mean it isharmful to society so both have spent time on a point which even if either aretrue still not provide a case for their respective sides.
“You once again haven't provided any statisticaldata or proper analysis of how homosexuals are " sex demons " or " not pure ". 
 
The BOP of proof for this claim is on you sinceyou're the one making this claim, not on me.”

MY OPPONENT IGNORING MY ARGUMENTS: 

“My opponent has either knowingly or by accidentignored my counter-argument I already made in my opening with me stating,”

“My opponent did little to debunk MY claims in my previousargument when I stated,”

“Same with this point,” 

“This is a claim that mind youISN'T at all elaborated by my opponent,”

“My first round was not dedicated to rebuttals,after all there was little point in me doing so before I layed out a simplisticcase for my own side (that homosexuality is harmful to society).”          

“Homosexuals on average die 20 years younger thantheir straight counterparts so they won't be enjoying these slight benefits forlong anyways.” 

“Sex is dangerous, and deviancy is harmful.”

“All of this bears no relevance to whether homosare dieing from AIDs in their ass or not - it's a false-equivalence.”

“It is incredibly harmful if one deviates fromthe heterosexual monogamous standard. This is evidenced by polygamous societiesbeing vastly more violent historically, and of course STDs rates.”

“Life  expectancy is also higher for straight married couples than normalheterosexuals.”

“Psychosexual immaturity occurs when psychosexual development is stunted insome manner, such as having no father or receiving negative influence from theenvironment.” 

“My fourth premise is entirely straight-forward.It can be applied to any form of deviancy which does not necessitatecommitment. Perhaps you could counter this by demonstrating how homosexual loveis similarly pure, or show statistics which prove they aren't sex demons.”