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@Outplayz
i don't agree with anyone physically abusing these people, but toughening them up... hell yeah, they're about to be on a pretty large stage. They need to toughen.
They can if they want to physically abuse their musicians since workers basically have very little rights in Korea if the eating disorder doesn't hurt them already. That was also covered in the video and the wages also.
We do have more freedom, and i ain't hating on that... but i think we've forgotten what freedom truly means. And, if i bring in that 50% of the country is making less than 30k a year... i'd say 50% of our country is not free. Money doesn't equal happiness but it does equal freedom. A free country shouldn't report the highest stress levels.
You are right about people not earning too much but I blame it on wage stagnation which can be improved by unions. If Bernie wins then that can happen but if Trump wins the "American dream" can't really be met by the vast majority of Americans. Even if people have less freedom to do what they want there is still more freedom in Korea due to more civil rights in America.
I don't know if i can give much stock to one video with the purpose of showing it in a negative light. It's hard for me to believe they are all horrible.
I would be happy to see evidence if you have any to say K-pop are not treated unfairly, paid unfairly and have very little after being a K-pop due to personal freedom being stripped away and little pay.
I really didn't get the impression they are killing people with the program.
Since they take up most of your time you have very little if you fail.
So is the military. If they want to do it that way, and it produces good results, then i would say they are falling a formula.
With the military. They give you a choice. Those choices are go to the military or carry on with what you are doing before. Military would be a bad choice but a good choice would carrying on with what you are doing because that career you would be going into probably pay you more and won't leave you without medical care. In Korea you basically have 2 bad options since both have to abide by the poor workers rights.
And, likely really good ones too if you are training young kids, especially boys, to be singers. Boys lose a lot of range after puberty, but if they train through it... they become insane singers.
Okay then let me change my stance then. I care more about safety than creativity. I won't allow civil rights violations to be the basis for creativity because it can be achieved with civil rights. Yes this can reduce creativity but I care more about safety and freedom.
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@Outplayz
Are you for bringing back slavery because there really is no difference?Do you really think it's any different here? I'll give you an example.
Every musician signing a contract with a record label has some kind of slavery contract.
No they don't. Saying other people will not sign you is not a slavery contract. It is when a person has full control of what you do. These musicians are not fully controlled by the studios. They do not control their private life but the studios in Korea do. That is a big difference.
Unless you become huge, you don't get that much freedom.
Freedom as in appeal to the most amount of people to get the most amount of money? Ariana and people like her use music genres like pop to be the most palatable to the most amount of people. This generates funds. This does not mean they will use the freedom instead they keep to what makes them money and don't decide to do something new because they know they make less money.
if blackpink blows up any more... i'm sure they can do solo stuff and their own work.
No they still have that contract. They can't leave and if they do who is going to buy them? The other company that has a monopoly on the music industry which would have a very similar contract? They can't leave because the music industry is owned by monopolies which means small businesses or solo artists will find it difficult to be independent or have some sort of standing in the music industry because of the monopoly.
I don't think the record label 'literally' owns the person. If that's the case, i missed it... i wouldn't agree with that obvi.
Yes they do. That is why I called it a slavery contract. They control their social life and must abide by whatever they do. Strict schedules of work, diets and can't do anything social without telling their bosses. He pretty much says in the contract "they have to sacrifice all personal freedom". Find this at 6:03.
Once they make it or fail... they're fine to do anything they want.
Think about spending your entire life on something that you think you are capable of doing. Now think that person said you are not worthy. What are you supposed to do? The competitive nature of Korea means the person leaving the K-pop scene will be much further behind lets say someone in America leaving something they like. This is because American jobs pay more which means they have the freedom to simply go to college or university to attend a different course. This is difficult for a K-pop because I don't think they pay you until you are profitable to them which means if you are in the last round before you are selected for a group and drop out you will basically get nothing and since they pretty much control your freedom since I am sure your parents would have to sign the slavery contract when they wanted to pick you but that doesn't mean as a young student you are guaranteed to be a K-pop. If you fail to become a K-pop the longer you are trying to go for it the less time you would have to pursue a career through school and I think there grades would be bad anyway because they are spending their time after school on training not learning about the courses in school.
No one owns their lives... literally.
So pretty much you need them to pay them worse than what they are actually getting because they already control their personal freedom?
I'm sure you are aware one example isn't very convincing.
Yes but since she is a professional on the scene she would have more information on what actually goes on.
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@Mopac
The only thing I am seeing is someone who can't avoid interrupting someone when they are talking.
How can I interrupt you when you are allowed to reply with that comment without me stopping you?
And as you are talking in terms of "rebutting", I have further evidence that proves to me that you are more interested in looking smart than listening.
Rebutting is required in order to know which side is better than the other. If you say I am looking smart (whatever that means) then pretty much every debate consists of people looking smart. Even Christians don't leave them out. So basically Chrisitans also look smart instead of listening. I would say this is a false dichotomy but I don't you even care about me "rebutting" your claims because you think it makes me look smart.
But fyi, it doesn't matter how good a teacher is(not that I am even claiming to be a good teacher) if the student doesn't respect the teacher, they won't benefit.
A teacher knows what she is talking about. This can be seen with test papers and how well people do on it. There is no way to measure how well you are instead you basically say accept what I say and remove what you understood in the past. No teacher says that because you need prior understanding to help your with whatever it is your are learning.
I can't make you learn anything.
Because you got it in your head that accepting without using prior understanding is something a teacher does. You don't understand they don't do that and by doing that you are not a person someone can learn from instead pretty much a snake oil salesman. Wants me to buy the snake oil without honestly telling me what is in it.
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@Fallaneze
certain universal dimensionless physical constants lie within a very narrow range
What are universal dimensional physical constants?
Why is it only certain instead of all?
How much is a certain?
the Universe would be unlikely to be conducive to the establishment and development of matter, astronomical structures, elemental diversity, or life as it is understood.
Okay.
My argument still stands that I made above. It is kind of annoying when you don't really answer everything I answered from you.
Btw, Martin Rees wrote an essay entitled "Fine-tuning, complexity, and life in the universe" in which he details the evidence for fine-tuning.
I write a paper about white supremacy. Am I for it now? You need more than just he wrote a paper about it therefore he believes in fine-tuning. I would like him to state by your definition whatever it maybe that physicists believe the universe is fine tuned.
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@Mopac
If you would respond to my post in full rather than breaking it in pieces, I would appreciate it.
I argue against specific points. I quoted what was I was rebutting. If I didn't then you would have to figure what I am opposing asking or something else.
If it is all about "winning debates", I'm sure you are a master of many persuasive techniques.
If you mean making a better argument than my opponent more persuasive then yes I am very persuasive.
However, if you care about truth, your approach is more conducive to strife than learning.
You weren't helping with learning. You want to remove want I learnt or un-learn it so that I can accept your "truth". With pretty much any other case I can learn with prior knowledge I had but guess your version of Christianity is different.
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@Fallaneze
Do tell me what it is.This is not what the fine-funed universe proposition means at all.
Btw, Martin Rees wrote an essay entitled "Fine-tuning, complexity, and life in the universe" in which he details the evidence for fine-tuning.
I write a paper about white supremacy. Am I for it now? You need more than just he wrote a paper about it therefore he believes in fine-tuning. I would like him to state by your definition whatever it maybe that physicists believe the universe is fine tuned.
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If the universe was fine tuned. Gravity would be, his fluctuation part would not be possible.Nothing Rees said in the excerpt indicates that fine-tuning isn't true.
Rees is the one who wrote the article saying that the universe IS fine-tuned.
In the video he said he can't quantify which means physicists need to wait until they can. He did not make that claim.
I've given you more than 6 variables, all based on scientific research, indicating that the universe is fine-tuned. There are even more variables that weren't covered by the Wiki source.
You need to talk about the instances like he said that gravity isn't fine tuned or the part about fluctuation. That goes against a fine tuned universe and if the universe was fine-tuned Rees have said it but he didn't. He didn't in the video or in the sources you got from wikipedia.
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@DebateArt.com
How about don't allow people to delete messages?
It would be difficult for both bsh1 and Virtuoso to lay down the law if we allow people to delete damning violations of the law.
Can you add a function which allow me to edit the receiver as well. When I post a comment I am only allowed to edit the comment not the receiver. Are you against this because it can causing someone's notifications?
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A "special" universe is consistent with intelligent design.
But you can't "quantify" it? So how do you know you are right?
How about these things that go against fine-tuning universe like Rees said in that video:
He says gravity is not fine-tuned. Do you agree?He also makes another claim. "there's another parameter which is the fluctuation amplitude in the early universe verse how rough the early universe was and if the fluctuations were ten times bigger if the number described in those flucutations were 10 to the minus 4 not 10 to the minus 5 then galaxies would still form even if the cosmological constant was a thousand times higher"
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@Fallaneze
Can you address my points that Rees brought up against the fine tuning argument?
The only thing you did was reinforce what you already said. Doesn't help me understand how Rees is wrong about things that are not fine-tuned which Rees agrees with.
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Some people say seeing is believing.In this case where the seeing are blind, it is necessary to believe before seeing.
Yes trust your senses. Not the most grandiose idea ever.
When I am saying that Christianity is in essence apodictic truth, that means that once you understand it, not only is it obvious but it is undeniable.
Once I understand it. Do tell me that part.
Christianity is a mystery religion, something that is lost in the heterodox world. The Christianity you have likely been exposed to is unenlightened. It is not Orthodox Christianity. As that is the case, if you don't abandon preconceptions, we are working with salted Earth, a poisoned well.
Nothing about understanding it.
So forget what you know, and here is the foreshadowing I will give you.
That is not possible. I rely on what I do in order to get correct conclusions. If I abandon what was won me debates I am basically saying I don't want to be right.
The Truth is God. Yes, literally what that means.
How did you get to that?
Not what anyone thinks The Truth is, not a collection of facts, but The Truth itself. By The Truth, I mean The Supreme and Ultimate Reality. The Most Real. The Truly Existing One. Actuality The Way it Is.
So is your position that the truth is that God is the supreme being or is it that God is both truth and the supreme being?
Everything about Christianity has to do with this, how we relate to this as creatures, and the discipline of abiding in it. Our religion very simply is Truth Worship.
You are basically saying I should remove my understanding that has worked in replace of something that I don't that works and you have not shown it to work. That is the problem and with what I use currently you still haven't provided a good argument for it. You have provided your experience. If that is the case why should I take your personal experience instead of another Religious person's experience?
If you don't believe me, you will never see. Instead, you will have superstitious ideas about my faith. Then, you yourself being superstitious will project your own superstitions on to the faith itself.
So either you use truth and belief as the same word or you want to simply accept what you are saying just because you said it and if that was the case then yes I would see the "truth" but that is because I have no standard only whatever the Bible says must be true because that is all I have now if I did what you do. Is my stance wrong?
To give an illustration, asking that I prove God exists or to prove that God is truth is like asking, "Prove to me that it is true that there is truth! Prove that truth is truth!"
If God is truth you would be able to point where it is. Remember seeing is believing. The burden of you is to provide everything true in this world has a connection to God.
If you don't believe in truth, how can I prove truth to you? What is being asked of me is to show a sign. Perform a miracle.
So now something can't be truth on its own it would require my belief. You haven't actually provided a good argument instead said drop whatever you use now and join what I am doing.
Don't say, "I will believe it if I see it."Believe first, and then you will see it.
Why should I take your advice over a Jew or Muslim?
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@Fallaneze
No.
Okay so you are making argument from physicists. I'll provide counters now not directly to your arguments but I will get back to it if you want:
Martin Rees is a person you are quoting a lot. He says gravity is not fine-tuned. Do you agree?
He also makes another claim. "there's another parameter which is the fluctuation amplitude in the early universe verse how rough the early universe was and if the fluctuations were ten times bigger if the number described in those flucutations were 10 to the minus 4 not 10 to the minus 5 then galaxies would still form even if the cosmological constant was a thousand times higher"
Just something else against your position with what he also said in the video "but certainly we are very far from having a theory to say just how special our universe is. It's certainly special in the sense but to quantify that requires a lot more physics that we now have and would be dependent on the details of that physics.
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@Alec
I'm anti-life on this. Just like you are anti-choice.
The baby did not have a choice to be brought into this world and since you don't know my position you can't claim what my position is. Do ask before assuming.
Many left wingers would claim that restricting abortion is sexist. I know why you want to prohibit/restrict abortion; to save an innocent human life.
If you are discriminating against women since they can only have abortion then you are a sexist. What part of that is wrong?
To address your serial killer argument, there is something objectively wrong with being a serial killer.
Tell me how it is objectively wrong to be a serial killer Mr objective morality?
There is nothing objectively wrong with being pro life or pro choice.
You are still making the claim one is wrong but how is it not objective?
I support the death penalty. It's a minor issue; very few murderers are executed compared to other issues. War in some situations is too expensive. It defends freedom, but I want the EU to lead the war effort instead of the US. It could help unify Europe.
For death penalty. Haven't really said if you are pro or against war and made some claim about Europe as if it could be true.
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@Mopac
You say we don't understand but don't actually try to help us. What are we supposed to do say you are right without understanding what you are saying?
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@Alec
It is not derogatory. It is the correct label for what you are in respect to the unborn. Are you?I'm against derogatory slurs like "anti-life".
When I was pro life, I got a lot of smears calling me sexist, anti-choice, misogynistic, etc. It's not like I use these against you.
If you discriminate against women then those words would be correct.
I basically don't want the kid born, so you could say I'm anti life for the reason that I stated.
So why are you claiming that it is a derogatory word when it is what you are? It is like saying we shouldn't call a serial killer a serial killer because it si a derogatory word. Do you take that stance?
When it comes to post born humans, I tend to lean libertarian, although I do have exceptions.
So you are for the death penalty or war?
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@Fallaneze
One question are you a physicist or cosmologist?
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@Alec
Are you against labels? Why are you using them if you are? Isn't that hypocritical?It's always the left labeling their political opponents.
It does get annoying.
Yes it is annoying when we have a hypocrite.
I support abortion rights because a dead baby goes to heaven.
So you are anti-life in respect to life that has not yet been born?
And pro-life when it comes to existing life?
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@Fallaneze
The "fine-tuned universe" is widely accepted by mainstream physicists and cosmologists.
Evidence?
The "argument from fine-tuning" argues that God is the best explanation for the fine-tuned universe. I agree with both.
I am guessing you will explain this later on.
One question are you a physicist or cosmologist?
I will get to your argument after you answer that question.
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@Alec
No not anti-capitalist more so a critique with a few suggestions to improve capitalism by making it less free market. Not anti-capitalism because there will still be capitalism. It can be modified to be more left wing but right would agree as well but not the wealthy portion of it similar to the wealth left wing portion of it.A debate would be where I'm pro capitalism and you anti-capitalism, ot where I say that I support capitalism and you then try to modify it to be more left wing.
How is this a troll comment?
So you are anti-life and believe in the Bible?
I don't care how people argue for the most part. I usually have a few rules but I wouldn't have it as structured as this.
My simple rule would mean we would have one more Round to argue but the same amount for rebuttals.
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@Ramshutu
I got "Little or No Indication of Narcissistic Personality Disorder"
"Your answers suggest that there is Little or No indication that you have symptoms common among people with narcissistic personality disorder. However, this quiz is no substitute for a proper diagnosis from a health care professional and we would encourage you to schedule an appointment with your doctor or other mental health professional now."
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No you can't.
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@Alec
Read up on him and debate him about me if you want.3) I don't like Karl Marx but I don't know too much about him.
they have AOC who is more left then Sanders since she has spoken out against capitalism.
How about a debate where you are pro-capitalism and my position is to find the failures of capitalism?
5)I used to be pro life, but now I'm pro choice because if you kill the fetus, they go to heaven. If you let them live, they will probably go to hell according to the bible.
Troll comment. Await an actual one.
There is also a way in which I want you to do debates. Remove the forfeits and put in place the first Round is for opening arguments. The other Rounds are for rebuttals which means we both have one extra Round for opening arguments but the same amount of Rounds for rebuttals.
I said that. What is your response to it?
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@Alec
You are for abortion right?
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@Alec
I am for more gun laws. Not bad laws good ones.What's your stance on guns? Do you want them all banned or just some of them?
1)What is your political position?
2)Are you a libertarian?
3)Do you want to talk about Marx?
4)Is Trump a bad president?
I don't really care too much about guns but the ones I brought seem rather interesting.
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Debate me on a topic.
Have a few suggestions below so that I can pick one that you agree with.
There is also a way in which I want you to do debates. Remove the forfeits and put in place the first Round is for opening arguments. The other Rounds are for rebuttals which means we both have one extra Round for opening arguments but the same amount of Rounds for rebuttals.
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@Outplayz
So, i think you're with me when it comes to music requiring sacrifice and a lot of pain, blood, sweat and tears to get to the professional stage.
Like with anything that is that someone does and wants to be good at it. My problem is that the choice they are making is a slavery contract. They are forced to do what the higher-ups say since they control everything about their life and even if they leave K-pop there is very little out there for them because they dedicated their time to K-pop not leisure activities and since unions are not a thing. Her rights are not being protected while others in Korea as well.
I also think you're okay with people old enough to make the choice to be in the program.
If the person is not given two bad choices instead two good choices where she/he has bargaining power to say at bare minimum you do not get to dictate what I do in my private life.
the powerful running the people that don't have that power.
False. In the video he stated there is very little competition in the K-pop scene due to the monopolies and since people want to be K-pop at a young age not rational enough to understand how bad the contracts they are signing are. They control their private and social life and shocker a K-pop star being honest stated she doesn't want her voice given to her children because she doesn't want what she is suffering to be past on. She is an expert in what she is dealing with so I take her opinion seriously.
So really how different are we?
Yes we don't force people into awful decisions. Yes the poor are awful in the country but I think everyone above the working class still have rights that they can use to help win cases where it could be unfair wage etc. Yes it can be better since I think there are very little unions in the US but at this stage people in the US have more freedom than people in Korea and with that freedom they are allowed to pick a job they like if they have a family to support that venture.
So, in my case, i would have been happy my parents put me in the program...
The working conditions are awful. That video highlighted it. They control your private and social life and tell you to work for unsafe hours.
Overall, i don't agree with how they are doing it bc it hinders creativity
Yes because I care about people's health before creativity. I don't want people to die to do something with their life. I rather people be healthy and do something with their life. Sure this can reduce creativity but I care about life more than creativity.
So how different is it really? You still need that backing. But of course, our way is way more creative and that's why we have probably the largest variety of music in the world that's good. So.. i agree our way is better, but i can't say their way is wrong other than not allowing for variety.
You pretty much answered your own question. If our way is better that means there way is worse. I don't see how we are right and they are wrong for those reasons.
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@Fallaneze
I'm an irreligious theist. I believe that a prime, eternal consciousness created the universe.
What is your argument for it?
The universe having an origin from consciousness is the best explanation of what caused the Big Bang, the fine-tunedness of the universe, among other things.
The fine tune argument is flawed is you use it. Hopefully among other things is not in the line of a fine tuning argument.
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@Vader
Sorry. I didn't know people would just skip the opening statement.
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@3RU7AL
Pretty much and every other thing that has consciousness. I don't see how he can defend that since we have very little information about consciousness.It sounds like Fallaneze just said they are god.
And if you're conscious, then probably you too.
Wrote what I said earlier before reading this which is why I made that comment.
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@Fallaneze
What are you and tell me in context what you believe in is rational?No, because I am not a Christian.
Sure. I believe that consciousness, rather than the material world, is fundamental. I call this consciousness "God." There are a series of arguments and evidence to support this view.
I am not accepting this until you tell me what you believe in and put it in context to what you believe in.
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@Alec
The debates have been taken down. You actually have no leg to stand on. Your stance of free speech is awful and which is why if you were in-charge this site would be rampant with people like Type1 who don't care about discourse instead wanting to stifle it.At the very least, type1 can provide some free wins for people.
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@Our_Boat_is_Right
The topic says 172nd and you lost.Extended to the 198th post wins.
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@K_Michael
Did you delete a previous post?That's what I thought of but I missed the rush.
I intentionally cheated.
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@Our_Boat_is_Right
A 15 year old conservative is telling to have decency.Why are u such a dick all the time? Have some decency.
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@bsh1
I will.
Abuse of power.
Slippery slope.
I want small government (DA).
The government (DA) is bad with money.
Joke by the way.
Unfortunately, I am not omnipresent, so I am happy to know about any potential misconduct that is occurring so that I can address it.
If only you were.
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@Mopac
I ask you to clarify your position but you think I am lying. The problem is with you not me.You don't really want to hear what I am saying. That is why you are inquiring with impure intentions.
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@bsh1
Like Type1 who you refuse to permanently ban? He is now making countless debates that are attacks. Do check it out.Such a function would induce all hell to break loose (rhymes ftw). We have some limits (like the troll debate classification), but giving moderation too much power in that regard would only create backlash, introduce even more subjectivity, and make moderation more intrusive. Plus, there's an extent to which such a proposal would unfairly target (and thus chase away) bad or new debaters.
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@Mopac
You should ditch calling me a "fool" for not agreeing with something you have given me no good reason to believe in.If either of you really wanted to know, you would show some charity and ditch the cynicism.
If you dispute everything, it retards your education.
I am simply asking you to explain your point or provide evidence. Not my fault you can't even do that and it is also your fault to even expect me to be able to understand you without an explanation or evidence.
It is the wickedness within your own hearts that shuts you off from the Kingdom of God.
I guess I am a bad person because I ask for an explanation and/or evidence.
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@Mopac
If you were right. I would have no ground to stand on and your failure to substantiate your point is a testament to your inability to provide a good argument for God.It would be vain to point out your folly, as you are simply looking to dispute with me.
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@Fallaneze
So you don't read the Bible, attend church and try to spread the message of your God?Well I consider myself a theist and am not too busy trying to please God to debate.
It's silly to believe that theists can't win debates or not have irrational views about God.
Can you tell me a rational position you take in respect to God?
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@Type1
@Alec
Well done Alec. This is what you fight for. A troll who has no intention to improve discourse instead stifle it with his comments.
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@Mopac
How is it a straw-man? I am simply saying God cannot exist while there still being reality. Do you have response?I don't need to prove your straw man god.
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