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@Wylted
There is no such thing as Jewish character; different Jews have different characters.
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@Wylted
We as whites are very individualistic. It is why jews or blacks or others who have strong in group bias are taking us out one by one, merely because we treat everyone as equals and base things like hiring decisions on merit
Your not individualistic. Some whites are, except those who want to ban certain guns or certain Muslims from the US based on terror attacks most guns and most Muslims aren’t responsible for.
The only group of people that are 100% individualistic are libertarians, irrespective of their race or religion.
Since your not individualistic, your not libertarian.
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@Wylted
How are you liberarian? Liberarians want to leave Jews alone.
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@Wylted
And your libertarian. Libertarians don’t try ink in groups such as, “protect your people”. They realize that everyone owns their own bodies. You don’t have any people except yourself. My people isn’t the white race; it is merely myself.
People are individuals, not groups. If an immigrant commits a murder, the only one that should be punished is that individual immigrant, not every immigrant. If a gun owner murders people, only that gun owner deserves punishment, not every gun owner.
Screw SJW logic on the left and the right. You are in charge of your own destiny; not your race.
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@Wylted
Other races already mistreat animals, which is why I feel whites need the most encouragement.
This isn’t accurate; Indians and many Africans have a plant based diet.
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@badger
The monopoly game resets every generation and blacks have had 2 generations to play a better game. Reperations would destroy the US economy if we paid black people for 400 years of slavery. If someone says something racist to you, it won’t make your life worse.
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@badger
although they would be doing better if they weren't brought here as slaves in the first place.
At this point, black people being slaves would be nominal in terms of their wealth today. If someone has a 100 meter headstart in a 200 meter race, that person will probably win. If that same person had a 100 meter start in a marathon, they are less likely to win because as time goes on, the headstart one receives becomes less and less relevant.
Except most of the gyms are whites only.
This also isn't true.
Bet education in Canada is cheaper than America too.
Then your getting into a debate about free college, which that is another topic. You can start a thread on that if you want, but I'd prefer to stay on topic.
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@n8nrgmi
Homelessness is extremely rare in the US. Only roughly .2% of the population is homeless.
This is how you get rid of homelessness:
LA sucks.
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@badger
Can you list any lurking variables? They might exist, but the burden of presenting lurking variables is on you. Black people are doing just fine in the US economically, although they would be doing better if they were raised in 2 parent homes and if they invested more.
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@badger
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@Double_R
Do you believe a child raised without a father is more or less likely to raise their own child?
I think less likely because single motherhood tends to be a black problem where blacks tend to have it the most, so the single motherhood stays in the same race.
Do you believe a child born into a family that is uneducated, is more or less likely to grow up educated?
In my personal experience, the vast majority of kids were going to college, whether their parents were educated or not.
Do you believe a child born into poverty is more or less likely to live in poverty as an adult?
Yes; but their skin color isn't a factor in this.
You can't expect the child of a slave to learn anything about the society they are trying to navigate through.
Black people despite being descendants of slaves can learn just fine.
I don't know why you're bothering since I already made clear in post #3 that I don't believe in reparations.
I didn't read post 3; my bad. I thought you supported reperations.
If blacks want more family wealth, they should invest. They have the per capita income as a group comparable to White Canadians, so this shouldn't be that hard for them.
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@drlebronski
That's completely relevant just because there income is comparable to people in a completely different country this isn't an argument at all.
I'm saying that black Americans are plenty wealthy as a group, just like white Canadians are pretty wealthy as a group.
I've already debunked this in a debate. "most whites didn't own slaves" most black people WERE slaves.
And the people that are descended of the owners of the blacks are more poor than your typical white Yankee.
already debunked this the study that showed this used unmarried as the definition of single. further proof black people don't have much money.
Regardless of your definition of "single motherhood" whether it be, "unmarried" or, "solo mother", blacks are more likely to suffer from single motherhood.
"they can invest more of their money and not grow up in single motherhood homes." That's just like the stop being poor argument. you clearly have 0 idea of what your talking about.
The argument is though that blacks already aren't poor unless you would call the typical white Canadian poor because the per capita incomes of white Canadians vs black Americans is comparable.
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@Dr.Franklin
liberty is the right to live your life. Freedom is a syninomn (liberty definition - Bing)
The rest of your post was confusing.
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@dustryder
It is still required because a college degree is a meaningful achievement. Just because a GED is a minimum, doesn't mean college degree isn't overwhelmingly preferred.
College degrees are either required or irrelevant for a job. The jobs I'm talking about have a college degree as irrelevant. With a mechanic for instance, a college degree is irrelevant.
I'm referring to the fact that there are plenty of occupations that value skills and experience over a formal qualification, but if you have none of the three, you just aren't a competitive candidate. Why should someone take the risk of taking in someone who has absolutely no skills over someone who does?
There is a difference between skills and experience. Skills can be obtained through courses the applicant would have to do that are relatively cheap to do. Experience for a job isn't necessary, but only useful for higher salaries. Every single mechanic was at one point, not experienced. Yet their company accepted that and gave them the experience to do well because they knew that they could hire an inexperience mechanic for less and when that mechanic gets more experienced, he gets raises. People with no experience are cheaper to hire.
Moreover, what value does someone bring to the company such that they merit a high wage?
The work they do is more productive than working at McDonalds.
10% of US adults do not have a GED.
I thought this figure was higher(25%). But given that the unemployment rate is 6%, the proportion of the labor force working a minimum wage job is about 1%, and not all people unemployed or working a minimum wage job lack a HS degree or GED, the proportion of people that lack a HS degree and are able to find a job that is not a minimum wage job is well over 75% of the people that lack a HS degree.
Moving is expensive and risky
How? You just find a new place to rent.
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@drlebronski
You realize that's not how society works right? you cant just "get ahead" after being a slave for 400 years and then segregated for 150.
You can get ahead despite that and this is why the per capita income of African Americans is today comparable to white Canadians((canada gdp per capita - Bing)(List of ethnic groups in the United States by household income - Wikipedia)).
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@Discipulus_Didicit
You can't punish people for stuff they legally did even if it's immoral by today's standards.I literally can
No you can't. Then George Washington would have to be punished for owning hundreds of slaves even though it was legal when he did it.
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@Double_R
Reparations isn’t punishment any more than an infrastructure project in Kentucky is punishment to anyone not living in Kentucky. You really need to drop this argument.
If I don't benefit from an infrastructure project (lets say I live in a rich part of the country) then a tax is essentially a punishment for being rich.
Reparations is about trying to right the wrongs of the past, not because those actions were wrong morally but because the legacy of slavery still impacts the black community today.
The legacy of slavery doesn't impact blacks today anymore than marital rape being legal in the past harms women today. You don't see women demanding reperations for marital rape.
Question; do you think it’s just coincidence that the same race who enslaved and thereby built their wealth on top of the free labor of black people, today have a median net worth that is 20 times that of the median black household?
There are lurking variables; most whites (especially in the northeast) didn't own slaves even when it was legal in part of the country. Whites are less likely to grow up in single motherhood homes, and more likely to invest in stock that gets 10% richer every year. When these things happen, of course whites are going to be richer than blacks. If blacks want to get richer, rather than steal white people's money through taxes, they can invest more of their money and not grow up in single motherhood homes. Blacks certainly have the money to invest, with a per capita income comparable to white Canadians(canada gdp per capita - Bing)(List of ethnic groups in the United States by household income - Wikipedia). They just need to get investing and they will build up their wealth because the stock market becomes 10% richer every year.
If you do then let’s perform the following experiment; let’s spend, say, the next 400 years enslaving every White person and building the nations wealth on their free labor.
The wealth America built on slavery is gone because wealth is lost with consumption and all the liquid assets America had with slavery got consumed already.
Reperations would be incredibly expensive if paid to their logical conclusion (giving every African American wages for 400 years of work assuming slavery was earned for minimum wage would be $12 million per African American which is 16x the annual national budget. Since slave work is harder than minimum wage jobs, this would be more), it would drive this nation deeper into debt. Adding interest would destroy the economy. It will not even help African Americans out because people are stupid with money they don't earn. This is why you see lottery winners being broke within a few years after they get millions of dollars they didn't earn.
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@badger
This world is extremely individualistic and this is good. Otherwise all men would go to jail because some of them rape. Blacks can get ahead just like anyone else.
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@fauxlaw
Okay. If what you say is true, that makes sense.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
You can't punish people for stuff they legally did even if it's immoral by today's standards. Human traficing victims had illegal stuff done to them, so you reperate them not from tax dollars, but from the funds of the offender. Reperations to blacks will come from taxpayer funds.
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@dustryder
Of these jobs, how many would prefer to hire someone with a higher-level degree over just a high school diploma?
Jobs might prefer to hire someone with a higher level degree, but given that they pay very high salaries and no college degree is required, such companies don't really care because college education isn't required.
Of these jobs, how many require a specific set of skills and/or experience that isn't necessarily translated from higher-level degrees?
If your referring to on the job training, you obtain that while working at the job.
Of these minimum wage workers, how many have a GED to be eligible for these jobs?
In my personal experience, the majority of minimum wage workers have at least a highschool diploma. If they are perminately out of school, they can find better work. They just need to look up the jobs they can get.
Of these minimum wage workers, how many are able to accommodate for the lifestyle changes of a high-paying job that only requires a GED?
I imagine the vast majority of them if not, all of them. If they have families, they just bring their families to a new place to work. They are probably renting, so they just need to find a new spot to rent (possibly).
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@Yassine
I think BrotherDThomas is funny.
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@badger
You gotta know your time and your place. If everyone in your state supports slavery (which was the case in the south in the 1820s) and you were wealthy, you were going to own slaves. This is a product of your time. Now in 2021, if your in the south, it doesn't matter how wealthy you are, your not owning slaves. But people should be judged by the standards of their time, not ours, so you can't be punished for something you did if that thing was legal when you did it. Otherwise, George Washington was a bad dude because he owned 600 slaves. Anyone with slaves now would be a bad dude and should get punished. But owning slaves 300 years ago; that was the culture back then.
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@badger
You can't punish people for things they legally did. This would be like jailing people for marital rape if they did it when marital rape was legal in the US. If this happened, many men would go to jail for something that was legal when they did it. Moreover, giving people money they don't earn causes people to waste the money; we see this with lottery winners.
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@drlebronski
No ones being punished at all its just reparations....
Reperations cost the government money and that money is supplied by taxpayers. I don't want to pay reperations for African Americans or anybody else.
I oppose reperations because you can't punish someone for something they legally did. For example, if someone legally owns slaves, you can abolish slavery, but you can't force ex slave owners to pay money to people they legally harmed.
It would be like banning abortion, and then giving reperations to unborn babies paid for by a female tax. If abortion is to be banned, not even pro lifers advocate for making females who may or may not have had an abortion paying a tax to pay for other kids based on abortions that not only those kids did not endure but were legal when the abortions were performed. You can punish people for illegal things; not legal things. Lincoln knew this, so he didn't advocate reperating black people during the time of slavery since he knew that you can't punish people for things they did if those things were legal when the actions were done.
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@Timid8967
Religious respect I think is letting someone do something no matter what because they are that awesome in the view of the worshipper. For example, if you let God kill people for refusing to obey priests, that is worshipping God since you let him get away with anything. A lot of people also worship Trump and Trump admitted this saying he could shoot someone and not lose any voters.
Conventional respect is merely a positive opinion of somebody or something. For example, I respect Rand Paul since I agree with his tax policies. However, if Rand Paul raped or murdered somebody and I believed he did, I would lose respect for him because I don't have religious respect for Rand Paul, but merely conventional respect.
You can conventionally respect anybody who you want. However, I object to religious respect because everybody should be accountable for bad things.
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@Dr.Franklin
what made america great was its people, culture, and liberty not capitalism or freedom
You said what made America great was liberty, not freedom even though these are synonyms. Capitalism is part of American culture. I fail to see how American people are superior to Mexican people for instance.
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@fauxlaw
Perhaps fauxlaw might do so. He is a very knowledgible source and easy to talk to
Do you know anything about my questions to Timid8967?
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@Intelligence_06
What if we make you as rich, but you won’t need to leave!
In order to make someone as rich from a minimum wage job as they would be from the jobs I propose minimum wage workers get, the minimum wage would have to be $27.5/hour. This is infeasible. Just have some minimum wage workers work more productive jobs.
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@Timid8967
Out of curiosity, are you Mormon? I don't think it's a cult, but if you are a Mormon, something about Mormonism doesn't make sense(even compared to other branches of christianity):
Mormonism was when there were these tablets found in upstate NY I think and the Book of Mormon is 200 pages or so of text that was found on the tablets. My question that alienates me from Mormonism more than the rest of christianity is how can you fit 200 pages of text on a tablet? This leads me to believe that Mormonism couldn't have occurred, although I don't know too much about it as I don't live in Utah.
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@drlebronski
Germany had already surrendered when the us bombed japan.
If the US didn't bomb Japan and if Germany developed the nukes first, NYC and DC and all their suburbs would be off the map and their civilians would be dead. Instead, a small Japanese suburb was off the map.
Fred Hampton was the leader of the black panther party in chicago which fought for Civil rights. The FBI and CIA published propaganda about him trying to kill all whites and then was murdered by the CIA while he slept next to his girlfriend. a picture then emerged of the agents who killed fred hampton they were smiling at the camera as they brought his dead body from the apartment. when the house was inspected bullet holes were in the door and on every wall.
I think killing one black panther activist pales in comparison to the 29 million deaths the Nazis were responsible for. No superpower is perfect, but America is better than the rest of the countries that are/were superpowers.
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@Dr.Franklin
I think the believe women movement wants individuals and judges to assume every rape victim is telling the truth. This includes prosecuting people who have rape charges as if they were rapists. This violates the 5th amendment and I don't feel like advocating for it's repeal.
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@Timid8967
My definition of worship is to treat someone with the same respect religious people treat God.
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@Vader
I think the vast majority of people can find better paying jobs if their job is a minimum wage job. Then companies have to compete for workers instead of the other way around. This causes wages to rise.
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@Intelligence_06
I still can't think of a single reason why a higher minimum wage would kill their ambition
Because many minimum wage workers (those perminately out of school) don't search for better paying jobs on their own. They are satisfied with their current job.
If some jobs have higher salaries, everyone would want to go there.
In theory you see this, but in practice people stick with their own jobs. I want minimum wage workers to be more willing to switch jobs to earn more.
There will 100% be people that won't be chosen for any high-paying jobs, and they have a life too, they can't just die of poverty.
You sure about this? The university of Georgetown found 13 million jobs in the US that only require a HS degree to do that pay $55K/year or more. This is roughly $27/hour. There are only 1.6 million minimum wage workers, the majority of whom are in highschool or college. There are enough jobs for everyone. People in these positions just need to search for them.
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@drlebronski
Every superpower throughout the vast majority of history has done questionable stuff. The question is, "Is America a better superpower for the world to emulate than China(the alternative)?" Reperations are theft. The Hiroshima bombings were to end WWII. When America developed the atomic bomb, we bombed a small city to end the war. Had Germany developed the atomic bomb first, NYC and/or DC would be off the map, America would surrender, and the Germans and Nazi ideology would control the world. I don't know who Fred Hampton is.
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@oromagi
Then read The Journal of Lewis and Clark and their descriptions of the great ghost towns along the Missouri river- just wiped out by smallpox and abandoned.
I think disease deaths were an accident, they didn't have vaccines, and the pilgrims didn't know they had a disease, so these deaths were not the moral fault of America.
The US gives citizenship to anyone that it conquers.Are you including African Americans in that claim?
Yes; Blacks have citizenship.
The stuff about the Roman empire I'm not sure about.
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@Double_R
so when someone else donates to the poor you are indirectly benefiting from that transaction.
If I donate to the poor, I do not benefit. I lose money.
But if you want welfare to increase for poor people, your free to donate to poor people. I don't feel like it though.
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@Theweakeredge
You see -as someone who lives in the US you have a requirement to the social contract
Social contract; I didn't sign SHIT.
and that also means you owe them enough to survive
9 million 3rd world people die a year from starvation. I'm not forced to take care of any of them.
for a long time women couldn't make any money selling books - because they were heavily disrciminated against when it came to publishing books
If I read an article on the internet (or a book, but I rarely read) I don't care who wrote it. Often I don't even know.
do you think that making 15,000 a year is "rich", because we make a lot less than that
If you work a minimum wage job and earn $7.25 an hour, work 40 hours a week, and 50 weeks a year, this amounts to $14,500 a year. Your parents should get off of welfare (corporations should too).
Your claim about murderers I don't understand.
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@oromagi
It seems to me a little strange to credit the Spanish and Portuguese with Native American genocide and not the American Empire who most profited from that genocide with the richest portion of the land so depopulated
I fail to see how America genocided the richest portion of the land.
The Romans killed many in the conquering but were more generous than any other conquerors in terms of creating a process for citizenship, improving the quality of life for the conquered, and critically, permitting freedom of worship
The US gives citizenship to anyone that it conquers. This is why Guam residents have US citizenship. Guam also has a high per capita income for an isolated island.
The Romans didn't have freedom of worship to the extent the US does. In the Roman empire, you had to worship the Roman gods and any other god was optional. The Jews in Israel didn't like that so they started a revolution. America lets you worship anyone if you want. We even have a lot of celeberty worshippers. You can legally worship FSM or Satan and it's totally legal. Although I do think every state in the Union should let atheists run for office in their state(it's banned in 7 states).
Overall, I'd say this thesis is pretty thin however much I am in complete agreement with your conclusion.
Nice; I got the smartest and one of the most confusing people on DART agreeing with me.
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@Theweakeredge
So you think that because you can't pay for a degree you neccessarily don't deserve it?
I'm saying if the degree you get is a degree you can't pay back when you get a job with that degree, you shouldn't get the degree. Not everyone should go to college.
Are you an idiot?? Seriously what the hell is it that your spewing?
Ad homein attacks.
Furthermore, what?? There are thousands of families in the US who have two working parents that can't afford health insurance and can't afford surgeries because they don't make enough
There are also some families in Africa that can't afford food. If you think they should get food, your free to send money over there but taxes and foreign aid makes this a requirement since non consenting strangers foot the bill. It should not be a requirement to give to poor people, whether those poor people are in America or Africa.
I don't care if reach people want to be rich
Your family is probably pretty rich by international standards; your free to give some of your excess money to poor people if you want. But if your unwilling to do it, I fail to see why other people should do it. I don't want to do it.
You shouldn't pay murderers, thats just human nature and you should respect that.
Well, I don't believe we should reward murderers with money; they should get the death penalty as that is the most effective way to reduce the US prison population; killing the really bad prisoners (the murderers and rapists). Lets repeal Kennedy V Louisiana and Coker V Georgia.
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@drlebronski
Lets say there is a college that can have 1000 students. Lets say this college is in a town where half the kids are white and the other half are black. Lets say that due to various lurking variables (less single motherhood, less poverty) white students tend to go to college more than the black students because they are more able too go since they were raised better.
Affirmative action sets it up so blacks and whites have to be equally likely to go to this college. Since whites are more likely to have higher grades than blacks due to them being raised better, this means that there are 2 standards for college; one for black students, and another for white students.
Had Affirmative action not existed, the standards would be the same. But because of Affirmative action, whites have higher standards to get into college and blacks have lower standards.
This harms 2 groups of people. First, it harms white students. They have higher standards to get into college, so less of them will get in.
Affirmative action also harms the black students. If they go to a college they aren't ready for, they end up droping out of school, they don't go to ANY college, and while they would have thrived at a community college, them dropping out of a relatively prestigious school means they won't go to ANY college.
While there should be things to be done to increase black grades (like ending single motherhood within the black community and all communities so black youth get more HW help), lowering the standards for entrance into a school does not help anybody, white or black.
Reperations is a terrible idea because giving free money to blacks will get this country deeper into debt and never help black people as people are fiscally stupid with money they don't earn. This is why lottery winners often go broke; they got free money for winning the lottery, they didn't earn it, they spent it on useless stuff, and they are now in a worse position. Giving black people free money will cause blacks to do the same thing lottery winners do as people are stupid with recourses they don't earn.
If you want to help black youth out, punishing their deadbeat dads is an effective way to reduce single motherhood. Until this happens, black people will be in a worse position relative to whites.
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@drlebronski
I tried to debate a few times and I've rediscovered why I don't like it anymore. Too many ad hommin attacks; both sides are too focused on winning even in an unrated debate. I also have a hard summer class, so I don't have the time to debate either.
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@badger
My country for sure is post politics.
Where is your country and what does, "post politics" mean?
I think Brexit's all the UK's got. About chucking out their non-Brits.
So that's the only difference between conservatives and labor. But why would the conservatives want to chuck out non Brits?
This isn't accurate. It's white liberals vs white conservativesAbout black people.
Other issues prevail. Abortion, race issues, gun rights, taxes, immigration, and other issues are what the US is dealing with.
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@Timid8967
What does worship mean? And good for you.
worship definition - Bing shows some good definitions, although I don't think they stand up to scrutiny. For example, people show adoration to their spouses. This doesn't inheritely mean people worship their spouses.
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@badger
If the conservatives support UHC and people being on welfare, what does it mean to be conservative then? Is the only difference between conservatives and labor their stance on Brexit?
American politics is a bunch of white people and black people mad at each other.
This isn't accurate. It's white liberals vs white conservatives and most of the blacks wished the whites would calm down. Blacks have opinions, but in general they are much less vocal about them than the whites.
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@drlebronski
If being a social democrat is a moderate socialist, how do they want to make America more left wing? They want:
1) UHC, which I don't approve of as it is people that take care of themselves being forced to pay for fat lazy bums.
2) Free college, which I don't approve of as there are 2 types of college degrees. They are:
a) Degrees you can pay off
b) Degrees you can't pay off
The former doesn't require free college and the ladder does not deserve free college since the person shouldn't have gotten that degree.
3) Higher taxes on rich Americans to fund the government.
To understand why I don't approve of this, lets say you make $100,000 a year and you only need $30,000 of it to survive. You made $70,000 a year more than you have too. The rich paying for the poor through the government taking their money to conservatives and libetarians sounds a lot like the government taking the $70,000 extra you made (or half of it) and giving it to people in Africa to save their lives.
Almost any person that makes $100,000 does not want to pay for other people to live in Africa. If they were fine with the government taking 50% of their excess income, they would have donated directly to Africa. Similarly, wealthy people don't want to pay for other people as well. Everyone is selfish with their own money and this is fine. While a poor person in Africa or America doesn't understand how someone would want to keep their money, if they were to become rich, they would do the same thing.
In other words, if you support higher taxes on the rich, your plenty rich by international standards. Should we tax you more to pay for people in 3rd world countries? If you say yes, you are free to donate to other countries directly. But most people don't want to donate their excess funds to help others unless those others are their kids. This is human nature and the government should respect that.
Another reason why I don't support increased taxes on high incomes is because under my tax policy, I don't see the point in it. Under my tax policy, the entire country is already funded by a 14% sales tax on necessities, a 20% sales tax on luxuries, and a 17% capitol gains tax. This combined with international freedom of movement would fund the government enough to pay off the debt in a few years while cutting taxes for all Americans, rich, middle class, or poor. By the time I plan on running for president, the taxes can be much lower than this due to the stock market increasing during that time.
4) Affirmative action, which I don't support as it harms minorities and whites.
My political compass test is below(the standard test that everyone is fine with I think has many problems with it):
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