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Vader

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@Lunatic
Tbh it would be hard considering how Casey played as scum when i was with them but I feel like I would have no choice but to reset my reads and think more critically. Granted if I'm alive at the next DP I am likely going to be the person in the 1v1 scenario so have to put that in mind. Can consider Casey all I want but if Wylted DOES flip town and I'm choosing between whoever is alive, I'm going to have to balance defending myself while also doing analytical thought.

It also comes down to who you are willing to trust more in the DP4. As I said to you last DP, I can say all these things about what I think but you have no inclination to believe me. This decision is yours but if I wasn't the lynch I would have to and would consider everyone in the last circle
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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
I am going to suggest to vote for me. My flip will verify a lot of the balance related issues we will see when my Gravedigger gets flipped. We will have a good idea and then we can lynch Wylted in DP4. I just don't buy that Casey buses scum buddy DP1 from my experience playing with them. WF role and behavior analysis makes me find it hard to believe.

If it's Luna, then we are fucked and might as well just hand scum their win.

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If wylted turns town not scum*
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I was going to respond to Luna but I realized that achieves virtually nothing in this game and just clusters the town. I'd rather be lynched today so I don't have to worry about pleading my allegiance if Wylted turns scum. I'm pretty much checked out after typings for extensive DPs just to have my logic wrong.

Rereading as well, I also am going back on my town read on Luna. I think it is very possible that in order to generate town cred he buddied a town player hard to try and give himself credit. I can deffo see him doing that and this time I am not gonna hold it out of the option. Cry OMGUS all you want but I definetly am waivering on my town read. My preference is still Wylted but I don't think there is enough attention on Luna for him to even be consider a lynch so at this point so town loses if it isn't wylted

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Honestly I have no problem with being the lynch this DP. It's eventually going to lead to Wylted at some point in the next DP anyway and if anyone else is scum  then yeah we are pretty much cooked
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@WyIted
smoking blunts between posts.
I don't smoke weed. I may chug beer but I don't smoke blunts
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Gonna do some reading and responses before the Super Bowl
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Now I'm fr getting off lol
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It also just goes from a meta perspective too 

Luna had no reason to ride Austin and his logic so hard in that DP if he was scum, I think he would've likely taken the easy lynch if he was scum and direct blame onto others as scum

Casey's initial interactions with Grey are town. I find it hard to believe that scum Casey is bussing there partner so hard in DP1 and making that strong effort to push on GP.

WF's behavior feels town but he is also given a lot of credit for his role being a direct balance to Grey's role. But at the same time though, if he's scum he could use that to his advantage and claim something that would be trusted. But I think he's more likely than not town

Yeah unless I'm missing something Wylted should be the lynch. To be honest too I wouldn't also be mind being the lynch either because if would make the trade off a bit easier and narrow POE down way more
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I think it is likely Wylted. I don't buy that a vanilla fully evens out the balance in this game too. If you are looking at it from a balancing perspective 


Commuter balances Car Thief
Tracker balances with Gravedigger
Strongman balances with Bookie to an extent|
Casey claims to have a 1x cop with a town joat but not revealing the other items

How can you be so sure that Wylted doesn't have a lawyer to balance out a cop and maybe other abilities they have?
Vanilla really is pointless for the situation...

I don't mind being the lynch this DP if you think there's enough behavior evidence to commit to me as scum, which I think would pretty fucking stupid but fmpov, it just has to be Wylted

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@Lunatic
Supa pisses me the fvck off. Literall ignored all the logic me and austin HAMMERED into him for hours last day phase about the math and logic of lynching outside of austin first, and in his responses was either just not understanding the logic cuz he kept misrepresenting our arguments, or was willfully ignoring it. Behaviorally, that was fvcking atrocious, and supa just looks soooooo bad for that sh1t. I'm the most pissed at him for not even trying to understand the logic, others at least understood it, Supa didn't feel like he even fvcking tried. I still have a really hard time buying that as scum his play with GP was to come right out and both insta claim, and his role looks very good as well with the existence of a watcher. Supa may be town, but I just can't excuse the behavior last day phase.
I won't say too much because I know I was wrong. I can accept being victory lapped about and admit that my logic was incorrect in hindsight and knowing what we know now. 

The part I am going to disagree is that I willfully "did not try to understand." I weighted options and everything. You claimed "ok once Wylted lynches I'm insta hammering Austin." You couldn't even use your role so that makes even MORE likely believe my logic. No one should be fully believed as town unless they are fully confirmed. What reason did I have to trust you that you were going to hammer Austin besides word? You may be a town read but I have no reason to trust that you would do and if Austin waived and framed someone like WF and said "ohhh then let's lynch Austin tmrw then." Sorry don't believe I was misrepresenting the arguments. 

So yes, my logic was wrong. I am a dumbass and Luna was right all hail Luna. But to say I was misrepresenting and willfully ignoring is just plain wrong. My top read was Austin and explained why I thought behaviorally he was scummy in DP1.
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I ended up coming back early and I have some thoughts I am going to say
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Gonna be logging off for the night. Going out and won't be back til like late-ish
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@whiteflame
Yep I agree. Obviously I am not placing a vote down right now but unless there is some really damning evidence I think it just has to be Wylted
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@whiteflame
Actually yeah you are right. My fault. I think I was stuck on just behavior analysis I didn't think about role


Yeah I think it has to be Wylted
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I also think I was a bit paranoid from old games I played with where Speedrace would waive a kill and fake a claim to draw suspicion. Think that kind of clouded my judgement but hindsight is also a bitch
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Well it is safe to say I was pretty wrong about Austin. Yeah I know that I am probably going to have some suspicions on me during this DP. I will be out tonight so I can't respond to much but right now I think the obvious lynch in Wylted unless we somehow have any info that needs to be shared

Right now I'd say my strongest town read is probably Lunatic. I feel like he wouldn't have been so hard stuck to not lynch Austin if he scum and I think he's put into my solid town pile

I just find it really hard to scumread Casey for pushing so hard on Grey straight away. Even when I was partner's with her, she was never strongly scum reading me til the block happened. She also had sus on Austin going into DP2 as well. I just think doing that gambit so early on seems wasteful

My POE is WF and Wylted with a lean on Wylted. If I am not mistaken, he claimed a vanilla mid DP2, which just seems like a safe claim. Plus not to mention if he was scum and knew about there only being just a tracker, he would've likely wanted to kill Savant and force a mislynch on Austin so his theories don't come true

I think it's Wylted tbh. Unless there's evidence that suggests otherwise that's where my vote will likely be

Not going to be excited for the flack on that last lynch but it is deserved
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@whiteflame
Thank you for the logic. I don't want to defend myself so hard but the vote on me was so silly, consider Austin is leading it when he had a hard town read on him until I became persistent he was the lynch
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@Savant
All of Austin's "mechanics" only work if you assume he is town. By lynching either myself or wylted you do nothing to prove anything unless he's genuinely is town. If he's not you just allowed him to fuck with the NP and manipulate any results he can.
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@Lunatic
I think it's just different perspectives that you and him see or he sees. We have no clue what the second ability scum may have. He could still have a chance at winning this game and we don't know.

From a personality perspective, I don't want to psyche out Austin, but maybe he finally gets mafia after a while and wants to stick with it? Not eager to just end after DP2? Idk I think there's so many answers that realistically won't do shit
If austin is scum here and made a grandmaster plan that lets himself get lynched either way hes just not a good mafia player. You may be willing to go that far to justify everything thats happened, I just can't bite that bullet. 
It's not a rocket science. All it takes is for him to RB Savant, waive a NK, and then pretend he RB'd someone like WF and whatnot and boom, then you are going back to the hypothetical of "well, he's always been in my town pile and he caught someone, ehh fuck it I'll for sure vote him next round," then vote him off and then it's a 2v1 where he has all the control 
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@AustinL0926
It also felt like he was deliberately avoiding Luna's points about how I have no path to a win if I'm scum and was just repeating the same things about how I was somehow trying to trick my way into endgaming. With you you're pretty much just straight up accusing me of stalling the game and that'd be a more realistic explanation if I'm scum, aside from the fact that I wouldn't do that because it's pointless.
I've gone back and forth with Luna for 3 straight pages and we both are seeing this game differently. I refuse to take my vote off you and he refuses to put his vote on you. What more do I have to argue lol? You are literally doing the same thing I do when I'm down as scum. Push an agenda of lynching people until tmrw until the inevitable happens. I'm just preventing any sort of manipulation from occuring
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I am refusing to move my vote from Austin. This is the most retarded lynch train I've ever seen. You have a watcher and a gravedigger claimed together. You have a vanilla alive as well. And Austin's first thought is to push a lynch on the person that he strong town read more than he did Pie when he SOP'd claim. Seriously. Don't fall for the bullshit. Mechanically speaking we get no benefit into keeping Austin alive because everything can be faked by him to manipulate results and push the lynch into MYLO

If you are not willing to understand that, you can lose with town and I have no proble. Luna is gonna be hardstuck to not push Austin next DP if we deviate from the lynch
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@AustinL0926
So you went from having a strong town read to now putting me in your top lynch candidate? Seems like a lot of WIFOM
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@Savant
Why are you not on the obvious lynch of Austin. Notice how he jumped ship and moved the goalpost from "if Wylted flips town then lynch me" to "Lynch Vader, Wylted, then me."

He is just gonna keep shifting the goalpost so that he keeps himself alive
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last hour*
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How the fuck did I get 2 votes in the last DP?

Austin was so quick to jump from a Wylted lynch and then turns to my lynch. My flip is just going to confirm Savant and then Austin says he's waived the action and kill Savant. Stop being so retarded and vote the obvious lynch
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@Lunatic
It's just frustrating from my point of view because you maybe are uncertain of who is scum but from my POV he's scum and it's annoying he wants to delay the game by a single DP.
In what way does this benefit him? Why not just quit if he's scum? 
I think it's just different perspectives that you and him see or he sees. We have no clue what the second ability scum may have. He could still have a chance at winning this game and we don't know.

From a personality perspective, I don't want to psyche out Austin, but maybe he finally gets mafia after a while and wants to stick with it? Not eager to just end after DP2? Idk I think there's so many answers that realistically won't do shit
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I have to revisit some points but I just don't see myself moving off Austin unless there is something that is so gamebreaking and damning for an alternative that is going to make me change my mind
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You don't think Austin is asking strange in anyway? 
Behaviorally to me, is a confirmed town. I stand by my opening post to this day phase, I just don't see austin playing this the way he has as scum. 

I guess I read it different

Why would Austin as town be SOO concerned mechanically with not being lynched today when we already lynched 1 scum.
Because if he is town, he can literally help solve the game by narrowing down the scum team with his jailkeep. With his plan he dies no matter what, so even if you think he is scum its a win win for us as town. There's literally no downside to following austins plan here.
So like I said, he fakes that he caught someone by waiving a kill, what are you going to do then

 I also don't buy that he's confirms anyone. There's so many other options to explain no NK happening if Austin jails someone. 
Like what, doctor is already dead?
Like uhh, mafia waive the kill to frame someone. Think
Wylted gets the lynch on him, he flips town 5v1
Austin waives the kill but as scum RB, hypothetically RB's let's say WF
WF get's lynched, 4v1
Savant is killed in the NP, 3v1
Then it's you, me, austin, casey. If he gets a mislynch off town lose boom comeback of all time

He can easily just waive a NK and claim they should be lynched and buy himself more time and scum.
Doesn't matter, with his plan we lynch him anyway, if hes scum we win. There is no benefit to him doing this if we lynch him next phase. And I promise I will. 
You can promise all you want until he comes in and tries to frame someone with his "JAIL"

Austin needs to get this mislynch off as scum because then he can say he jailed someone and then push to mislynch them and say "WELL IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME LYNCH ME NEXT DP"
Nope. No matter what with this plan, austin dies the next day phase. Town will have a huge poe pool if austin flips town, and if he dies, he accomplished absolutely nothing but delaying the inevitable by one day phase. 
I think you can argue the same thing for Wylted

Sorry don't buy it. If I'm wrong then shit I'm wrong and I get why some would sus me but I can't see a logical reason why he would freak out like this when town are clearly advantaged
I think you are town here, I don't blame you for being wrong about this, I just think you aren't seeing the full picture so I am trying to explain it to you there is no downside to this.


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@Lunatic
Realistically speaking assuming no batshit crazy mechanic is in play, it's a 6v1 right now. Even if austin flips town for some reason, it is LIKELY a 4v1. From there we can put pressure on Wylted.
Why not do this in the reverse order? You help me lynch wylted today, I help you lynch austin tomorrow. Guaranteed. I promise. If I lie, lynch me because I would be scum. I will 100% vote austin with you. If austin is town we can afford his play and we get a town confirm. There is benefit to lynching austin second in this order as opposed to him before wylted. 

Because I guarantee Austin would waive a kill to try and set someone up because that's the only way he has a chance of surviving another DP.

In fact why are so you adament on getting Wylted now when the same logic can be put into place for my plan
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@Savant
I see a passionate townie.
If he was passionate, why say "I'm town btw" instead of "you people are gonna regret this" or something? Like, it goes without saying that he's still claiming town unless he confesses.

This is a nothing issue IMO
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@Lunatic
Jailkeeping does not alignment check at all
Yes it does. There is one scum, a jailkept scum cannot carry out the night kill. If he jailkeeps someone and the night kill happens, that person is confirmed town. Get it?
So what's stopping Austin from waiving the kill, saying "OMG I JAILKEPT (insert whoever), WE NEED TO VOTE HIM" and then saying "IF YOU VOTE (insert whoever), THEN YOU CAN VOTE ME NEXT DP," take it to MYLO and then try to convince someone that he's not scum and set him up and having you, whoever, and himself as a top 3 with you townreading him

Yeah GG
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@Lunatic
I mean you can dislike the post but it's likely a 6v1 or 5v1v1 (if there is 3P which I doubt) and you are tweaking out over you being town to a degree I have not seen in a while. Almost as if you are panicking for losing GP in DP1. Why are you even going crazy too? You flip town and it's likely a 4v1 and Wylted becomes a top scum read.
Why would he care so much if scum? Who would want to carry a game like that as scum to the point where it's obvious he would never make it to a lylo situation anyway, he would be delaying the inevitable. There's literally no point, and he is needlessly making his job harder. Think about this. Also why the hell is wylted not scummy to you? 
Austin seems like the type of person to care alot about this game and pushing it. If he's scum he can theoretically move this into a MYLO situation if he plays his cards right and he knows it lol... i'm not buying he's doing it for the good of the town. 

Wylted is also in my POE and I am not ruling him out, but I am voting on my stronger read that I have held consistently throughout DP1 to DP2 ...
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@AustinL0926
I DONT CARE about convincing people that I'm town. I literally said I'm fine being lynched tmrw.

I care about having an alignment check tonight via jailkeep.

Jailkeeping does not alignment check at all
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@Lunatic
VTL Austin

I don't know if there is some kind of mechanic that gives scum way too much extra DP time. But at this point Austin has been moving the needle too much. It's pretty obvious he's trying to prevent himself from being lynched at some point. If he was truly town, he wouldn't fight this hard, knowing that we already have 1 mafia killed at this point. Resorting to something of the lines of (Wylted wants to hammer because of some insta win mechanic) just reeks of desperation at this point. As for him psuedo confirming, this is not true at all. There is so many ways that scum can set this up in the favor. Only scum are trying to buy themselves a DP. I don't care what anyone says. I think Austin is just panicking after going down in the lynch and needs to pull off a mislynch to try and shift blame off him. I did the same thing in Choose Your Roles when Savant RB'd me and try to stir it as Savant being a liar. 

The only reason I am reading Savant as town is because of my role and his role. Not because Austin JK'd him. The logic is flawed and this coming off as pretty desperate from Austin's part

Supa if you are town you are making a mistake brother. Nothing austin is doing makes any sense to do as scum. The logic just isnt there. 

Realistically speaking assuming no batshit crazy mechanic is in play, it's a 6v1 right now. Even if austin flips town for some reason, it is LIKELY a 4v1. From there we can put pressure on Wylted. You don't think Austin is asking strange in anyway? Why would Austin as town be SOO concerned mechanically with not being lynched today when we already lynched 1 scum. It just doesn't make sense. I also don't buy that he's confirms anyone. There's so many other options to explain no NK happening if Austin jails someone. He can easily just waive a NK and claim they should be lynched and buy himself more time and scum.

Austin needs to get this mislynch off as scum because then he can say he jailed someone and then push to mislynch them and say "WELL IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME LYNCH ME NEXT DP"

Sorry don't buy it. If I'm wrong then shit I'm wrong and I get why some would sus me but I can't see a logical reason why he would freak out like this when town are clearly advantaged
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@AustinL0926
I mean you can dislike the post but it's likely a 6v1 or 5v1v1 (if there is 3P which I doubt) and you are tweaking out over you being town to a degree I have not seen in a while. Almost as if you are panicking for losing GP in DP1. Why are you even going crazy too? You flip town and it's likely a 4v1 and Wylted becomes a top scum read.
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I don't know if there is some kind of mechanic that gives scum way too much extra DP time
I mean extra benefit, idk I was just writing down shit lol
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VTL Austin

I don't know if there is some kind of mechanic that gives scum way too much extra DP time. But at this point Austin has been moving the needle too much. It's pretty obvious he's trying to prevent himself from being lynched at some point. If he was truly town, he wouldn't fight this hard, knowing that we already have 1 mafia killed at this point. Resorting to something of the lines of (Wylted wants to hammer because of some insta win mechanic) just reeks of desperation at this point. As for him psuedo confirming, this is not true at all. There is so many ways that scum can set this up in the favor. Only scum are trying to buy themselves a DP. I don't care what anyone says. I think Austin is just panicking after going down in the lynch and needs to pull off a mislynch to try and shift blame off him. I did the same thing in Choose Your Roles when Savant RB'd me and try to stir it as Savant being a liar. 

The only reason I am reading Savant as town is because of my role and his role. Not because Austin JK'd him. The logic is flawed and this coming off as pretty desperate from Austin's part
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@Lunatic
I don't really either but just important to note. Not to mention a JK is just a solidified town RB
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@AustinL0926
This is extremely WIFOM but let me point this out

Why do I claim the action on Savant then.
I mean the action failed can implicate a few things. It indicates RB, JK, etc. It gets Savant to out if they have a role so you can get info
Y'all are thinking through this from the perspective of "what does an honest scum player do."

Believe it or not I am not an honest scum player and I would've just claimed some other role instead of simultaneously clearing Savant while making myself look bad. I literally acknowledged in my claim that it was a semi-CC with Pie
Again that is a huge WIFOM. You are already at a disadvantage because it's a 6v1 and are trying to at least get a mislynch off. Likely going to keep Luna alive and others in his POE since he town reads you. Likely lynched at some poit and buys you time to make a case. I did the same thing in Choose Your Role
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@WyIted
Oh.

Meh I can't really go into the mind of Luna and I haven't seen enough of Savant's reads to see why he reads him as such so can't really say, so I'm just going from my perspective
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A doctor and a JK is off. It's more likely than not I think that Austin RB'd Savant and is trying to play it off as a JK. 

I am willing to lynch Austin today
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@Savant
We don't use much if we mislynch today since we hit scum already, it's a 6v1 rn hypothetically speaking and if scum get a NK it's a 4v1. Still have to assess whether Austin's plan would work but it's not bad if we don't have a definitive target if Austin proves himself
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@Lunatic
I don't think your analysis was wrong per say, but I just don't think he's town confirmed as you say. I still find how he leaned town with Pie in the last game but thought I was townlocked this game in his original posts when Pie's SOP was 10x more likely to be confirmed fmpov. Still I think his hard town read of Grey is very weird because from my experience, Austin sort of slightly reads his partner and doesn't have hardstuck reads. I also will say JK is pretty weird in this game and considering it was used in the last game.
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@WyIted
Very true
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@WyIted
I don't necessarily fully buy Luna's logic just because he is in my POE. I don't buy WF in the POE from my reads. His play is much different from last game and he seems to be putting a consious effort into keeping up reads.



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Alright I am going to give my reads

Whiteflame - whiteflame feels town to me. I think compared to his last game, he feels much more engaged in solving the theme of the game and also putting the effort to give hard character reads. I also see his going after some people a lot more in the deep paragraph style. His behavior is what I believe whiteflame does as town and is probably the second strongest read I have.

Savant - Savant is town to me. With him as the Watcher, GP's flip of a role cop, etc, I think there is a low chance that he can be scum. I think I also just have this perception of going in a loop of lynching Savant because he's scummy. I don't think his reads have been that different from what he's done the last game to warrant a lynch

Casey - Casey seems likely town to me as well. I find it hard for Casey as scum to go at their partner so hard early game and pull off such a strong bus to get them lynched. This deviates from Casey's scum play which is to apply pressure later onto their partner, while also sort of coasting through. She started the GP train and I think it's safe to say she's likely town

My POE comes down to Luna, Wylted, and Austin.

I am going to have to take a hard look at these options and see which I think is more likely scum than the other
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@WyIted
connections and network.
Unfortunately in this job market, sometimes connections go a long way. You can have the hard skills but they won't take you for your cousin. Gotta play the long game
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Hey everyone.

Sorry I meant to post my reads earlier but neglected. It’s 2:35am now so I’m probably gonna post them tomorrow 

I’ve been super busy with preparing for a Supply Chain panel for school and a bunch of networking and interviews. I’ve been a bit lazy with reads even for my standards so I want to give my clear thoughts out there tmrw when I’m refreshed 
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I don't have a problem lynching GreyParrot right now. I think his lynch will give town enough information to work with when he flips in this game. His role is also inherently scummy and think he could be lynch. If there's a town flip I am going to put more pressure on some other players but I don't think this lynch is consequential 

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