Vader

When did I say they could/couldn't have more? 

You said it was "underpowered." I don't see how it's underpowered if they could have more.

You literally did it to set up a mislynch against Pie using your roles.

Right, I did it to set up a mislynch against the person it would be hardest to get mislynched, instead of just going after an easy target like you or Wylted. You really believe that?

You consistently said we need to lynch Ultra and then theorized about a possible mislynches then acted on it by outting fake results and vanillizing Pie. Pretty easy coast thru tbh 

You're not making any sense. I was the only one directing attention AWAY from Ultra. And my results obviously weren't fake because Banana's role was real. 

Which I guess makes sense for a Roleblock and a Redirector to exist, but even still doesn't that seem somewhat underpowered?

Why do you assume that just because scum has roleblocker and redirector means they can't have any other abilities? They could have a JOAT for all we know.

I don't buy that Savant as tracker wanted to watch Casey over an un CC'd cop who was probably a NK target

Except Casey is literally role confirmed to me

Not voting until you give your reads and explain

I also want to hear Wylted's thoughts

A Hidden Miller role literally just proves my point even more except the fact there's no framer. Which I guess makes sense for a Roleblock and a Redirector to exist, but even still doesn't that seem somewhat underpowered?

We don't know what scum have, but I'm willing to bet money that they have some form of a JOAT. You should be considering this possibility, especially based on your own claimed results, but it's like you are pathologically unable to suspect Pie here. It's almost like you two are partners... 

2. Savant is telling the truth and Pie visited Casey at some point. This can justify with my investigation that Pie is a scum JOAT and would coordinate to kind of a counter balance to Casey's role? I am not sure how that would work but I guess it could work for the most part. Pie has been a bit pushy and I think he has some of the behavioral tells of scum 

Let's look at the scenarios of what scum role could be. We know that a Framer exists in this game based on Ultra's turn so no matter what a Framer role HAS to exist. If Pie is telling the truth about what happened we know scum have some sort of Vanillizer role. Something I could totally see Luna doing for a scum team tbh. That would be an optimal setup for the amount of investigatives we have in this game. However, if Pie is lying and Savant is telling the truth, then it is a Redirector and a Framer role. Considering the sheer investigative power of the town at this point, that would honestly shock me. Decently balanced but also why wouldn't have Savant be targetted then?

I do not buy it. At this point I am very much leaning toward Casey and Savant. There's too many issues in their statements and jumping to conclusions that would make me believe that they are not scum.

This theory makes no sense. If Savant and I are the team, this game is easy af for me. I just let Ultra get lynched and coast through DP2, then get you or Wylted lynched today. Easy peasy. Why would I have drawn all that attention to myself yesterday concoting a theory about you and Pie (which I was very obviously right about) which would only make me look suspicious when no one would have sussed me if I had just stayed quiet? I mean, both Banana and Savant backed up my claims about NP1. No one would have had any real reason to sus me before I started theorizing. 

So here is my thought process. I think we have to look at 2 possibilities at this point in time

1. I think it is ultra convienant that Casey meant to give myself a BP vest then it got redirected to Savant which was then used to "role confirm" Casey. Then we go ahead in DP3 and now Savant, instead of targetting our only active investigative role besides himself, watches Casey and then conviently sees Pie visit Casey then. There is a bunch of flawed reasoning in that process and I am a bit curious. I want to hear what Casey did last night though and see what results they have. 

2. Savant is telling the truth and Pie visited Casey at some point. This can justify with my investigation that Pie is a scum JOAT and would coordinate to kind of a counter balance to Casey's role? I am not sure how that would work but I guess it could work for the most part. Pie has been a bit pushy and I think he has some of the behavioral tells of scum 

Let's look at the scenarios of what scum role could be. We know that a Framer exists in this game based on Ultra's turn so no matter what a Framer role HAS to exist. If Pie is telling the truth about what happened we know scum have some sort of Vanillizer role. Something I could totally see Luna doing for a scum team tbh. That would be an optimal setup for the amount of investigatives we have in this game. However, if Pie is lying and Savant is telling the truth, then it is a Redirector and a Framer role. Considering the sheer investigative power of the town at this point, that would honestly shock me. Decently balanced but also why wouldn't have Savant be targetted then?

I think we have some stuff to figure out

And honestly if I were actually scum, why wouldn't I have just gone for a Dreamer fake claim lol. It would've make it 10x easier to come up with fake results and put 3 additional people for mislynches. Claiming a Comedian wouldn't make any sense in this case

This really isn't that hard to explain. You claim what you can justify. I never said that your justification doesn't line up, did I?

 unique role

Well I am pretty sure Ultra is likely scum but if he turns town there are a few ways to proceed. Here are some obvious paths

Ultra flips guilty, likely a 5v1 
- Banana is town locked
If Pie Inno Child is revealed DP3
Likely 4v1 
- POE down to Savant and Wylted at that point 

Full breakdown.

You are IMO a town read. I would say likely town IMO. I think your behavior has been very aligned with what you play as town. Taking charge in games and being at the forefront of the towns choice is what I see from town. I think you are going through the right thought processes but are just jumping the gun and making assumptions. I said that I am not ruling out that you couldn't be scum and I will say that for everyone unless there is really hard hard evidence and there really isn't besides the BP vest being redirected and there is a possibility that you could be lying to save Savant from being the focus on the target. I laid out my reasoning but how much do I believe it? Probably around a 5-10% just because I don't think this aligns as your scum and no offense I don't see you and Savant making a play like that, so deffo a likely town read but as I said, very possible you could be scum but not very likely

So now you have an issue with me building a case but have an issue when I deflect the case you make that I clearly responded to???

So you admit that you're building a case against me, then? Why even bother doing that if you TR me so?

" I think you are a town read but you are not town locked so there is possibilities of what I am suggesting that could happened. But like I said, I don't think it's the case."

I got CC'd in Years Mafia by WF and got outted from a result

Yes, but you also made the mistakes that I said you made, and your mistake about the Hagia Sofia was one of the reasons I hard scumread you even before the CC. Don't try and act like what I said isn't true

I have links to a ton of games where I made a mistake. Years worth. It's not just me being scum. I don't think it's a strong argument and tbh it's pretty weak IMO

Right, so you don't make mistakes as scum, except for when you do, but we should just overlook those, because you also make mistakes as town sometimes. Okay.

There is also way more of a reason for Casey to verify Savant rather than anyone else. Savant was almost dead to rights in the later DP1 before Earth's claim. If I am scums partner I would try anything possible to divert attention and to give some form of credibility to that user. The role Casey claims is just that role. However again I am still town reading Casey and don't think that.

It's really cool how you're building a case for me being scum while also publically stating that you townread me.

Please note how Vader is merely deflecting away from my case against him and Pie instead of actually making a substantive reply.

I would honestly scum read myself if I perfectly typed out justifications for myself. I know its crazy to think but I can attest to my biggest flaw as scum being way too detailed orientated.

Except for when you were scum and got the date of completion of the Hagia Sofia wrong... Or when you got details about your character wrong in Castlevania Mafia... 

If Pie is still alive but he is not confirmed we have my JOAT that I gave for him for justification. I said this in my last post but it seemed like you skimmed very quickly

If that's his justification, he's definitely scum. Too similar to my own role.

If I'm dead this NP and I'm revealed as a comedian and Pie is not outted as an inno child DP3 he's the joat and lying. If he dies in the NP and flips Inno Child, just proves I'm not just throwing shit out there to throw shit. If Ultra turns town in his lynch this means we have pressure on Banana.

And what if Ultra flips town and you and Pie are still alive? Why is Banana the one you'd suspect most? Do you really believe there's a mafia role in this game which just gives fake guilty results to other players?

Also a slip is making a mistake from what you claimed and getting caught in a lie. This isn't really getting caught in a lie. It quite literally is the definition of "opposite of dreamer"

'Slip' is short for Freudian slip, accidentally letting on to something you meant to keep secret. If your role is actually just made up, then you might forget that you said it was 1x. One thing I've learned from playing this game is that blatant slips rarely ever happen. Usually, they're quite small. You have to focus on the details of human behavior to win this game as town. 

#57 also feels like a possible slip from Vader, plus my vest missing my target is suspicious. I also think the Pie slip I caught may have been genuine. I feel really good about this solve tbh. 

Alright I'm gonna think. So we have a bunch of investigatives role at the moment. Casey chose a BP vest to me but got redirected to Savant, there was some form of an NK.

Right now based on actions and what I said in DP1, I think Casey reaffirms my town read. I think receiving a BP puts them in a role confirmable place. Not to mention I pointed out that my role could produce results and wanted some protection so I can out someone for what they could be

Right now Pie and Ultra have results. Pie had a DPX innocent child claimed which alligns with what I thought he could be. I think keeping Pie around this DP is useful to this game because if he is killed this NP or is alive DP3, we have results that can confirm his role and then confirm myself. So there we go that issue is solved. I am going to doubt he is inno child DP4.

The only crazy gambit that I could see is that Casey and Savant faked each confirmations but I don't think either of them have the playstyle of doing a crazy gambit like that so ignoring

I am thinking a bit more but for now I think Casey and Pie are likely safe, bringing POE to 

Banana
Savant
Ultra
Wylted

Ultra's claim is pretty bad and tough to believe. Probably the top scum read at this point just because I don't know if a better target comes up this day phase. But the other options are tough

First thing is first is Ultra flips guilty, Banana is town locked,

Savant
Wylted

If Pie flips his innocent child role, it at least role confirms me to an extent. But I know I am not mafia so I don't get that

If Ultra is scum it's either Savant or Wylted. I forget who claimed tracker but I feel like I'd be pretty puzzled on the existance of a 3+ investigatives