drafterman

Reference a single DDO game where mafia waived a kill at MYLO, or GTFO.

If we're wrong, we lose. Why risk it?

You can help by VTNLing. And the mod has already requested replacements, so it's up to Pie as to whether or not he wants to replace back in.

I'll take the blame for the Pie lynch. I felt he was mostly being fluffy, and read that as scum behavior.

(Yeah, it sticks around for 10 rounds or until Luraxt dismisses it. You're good unless you end your turn near it (it's on the map) or Luraxt decides to ram you with it)

Re: Budda & GP Mainly quibbling over points of logic.

Yes, ethan had bad newbie reasoning, but the problem was his refusal to accept any sort of feedback or that he could be wrong. Examples include: thinking I'm scum because I pressured him to state claim. Thinking pressure for a state claim was pressure for a role claim. Thinking that state claims would reveal roles despite admitting that role PMs don't have any justification that could lead to that. Saying that Pie was town and scum in the same post.

Oh. You're talking gibberish again.

ethan having poor reasoning. Pie posting fluff. Budda and GP arguing.

Dude. It's MYLO. You've already revealed your affiliation by suggesting we random lynch at MYLO.

(Yep. All grappling does is reduce your speed to 0)

Just like it was IMPOSSIBLE for the previous 7 player game to have a Janitor AND a Framer, amirite?

For the town:

I was slightly suspicious of Budda all through DP1. If you look at the previous game (Bloodlines) you'll notice that Budda was very analytical, going over posts, looking deep into each player's behavior. He would go through posts by posts and examine for consistency. It through me off this game that he was basically letting such egregious behavior by ethang float by. He gave some passing remarks, sure, but compare with how gung-ho he was for similar behavior and inconsistencies in Bloodlines. It just doesn't add up.

I have reason to believe there is a roleblocker in the game (my PM mentions that I will get a result of "no results" if I am roleblocked) so I wanted to avoid being targeted by the mafia, so I essentially buddied Budda to misdirect them.

I am leaning toward ethan being Budda's partner. As scum, it would have been very easy for Budda to push for an ethan lynch early on, but he didn't get on that wagon till later. Instead he kept trying to manufacture suspicion of GP. Failing that, the mafia resorted to night killing him.

This also belies your scum affiliation. Why would an inno on Danielle mean I'm scum? Obviously I would go after you as scum with a guilty.

(Yep)

Also, you're using the same fake cop results I used last game.

If there was a singular cop claim, then yeah, I'd say go with that unCC'd cop's results. But with competing cop claims (obvious move) you don't random lynch at MYLO.

(Yes, you wielded it on two hands. It allows you to roll 1s and 2s on damage. You still have to hit)

(No)

(Nothing happened to it. It allows you to reroll 1s and 2s on damage if you wield the weapon in two hands. It does not allow you to dual wield longswords)

Thought it's probably MYLO.

Budda is guilty. Lynch the scum.

Luraxt weaves through the front line and opens his hands, causing radiant flames it issue forth. Doru dodges and weaves around them, negating much of the damage, but gets slightly singed nevertheless. Luraxy then returns to his place behind the lines.

[Burning Hands Damage: 3d6 (1,1,1) = 3 radiant damage]

Eikka boldly holds out her holy symbol and utters words of warning, but they seem to have no effect on Doru.

Doru races forward with preternatural speed and grasps and clings ahold of Grahf. Despite his emaciated state, his grip is strong and relentless.

(@Earth: You can't dual wield longswords, so I'll treat it as a two-handed attack)

Grahf attempts to slice the spawn off of his scaly body, but is unable to get the appropriate leverage.

[Melee Weapon Attack: d20 (2) + 5 = 7, Miss!]

Snerp causes the area in front of him to glow brightly. While maintaining his grip on Grahf, Doru manages to avoid the fey lights.

Ireena unsheathes her rapier and looks at Donavich sadly. I'm sorry, father, but this is a matter of life or death.

She darts around to the other side of Grahd and slashes at Doru, leaving a long gash across his arm.

(Yes, but you have enough movement to step in, fire it off, then step back out again)

(What's your action?)

I'm going to have to ask you to clarify what you mean by complexity in this context.

We've got 3.5 hours. The only people close to being lynched are ethan or Pie

I don't like any of his posts. All fluff and no analysis.

I like your reads and I can see where they're coming from. If I had to update my reads, they would be:

Budda and me have been in-step for the most part, so I really can't scum read him without scum reading myself.

Me

GP

Budda

Hammer

ethan

Vaarka

Danielle

Pie

You have this exchange backwards, but let's back up and zoom out.

I first mentioned roles in post #23 in that my PM has no justification for my role. In most Mafia games there is some reason, or link, between a player's character and the role that they are given. For example, in a Star Trek game, Dr. Bones would most likely have the mafia role of doctor and the link there would be obvious.

In this post I was noting that there isn't a link between the states (our characters) and any roles we might have. This was confirmed by Budda in post #26. The point being that it isn't the specific roles that are of note, it's the lack of justification. When justification exists and a person has full claimed, they may be asked to paraphrase what that justification is so we can judge whether or not their claim is fake or not.

Because of this lack of justification, I proposed a mass character/state claim in post #27 (which, again, Budda supported in post #33). A mass claim is where every outs what character they are. Normally this is frowned upon because in a normal game, there is usually a link between character and role (again, see the Bones/Doctor analogy). In a normal mafia game, if all the characters out, then the scum have a good chance to discern what roles everyone is, and prioritize their night kill targets appropriately. The only reason I suggested it here, is because they lack the ability to do that. Simply point: the entire idea of a mass claim was predicated on the idea that you can't discern our roles via our state claims.

Then, you accuse me of trying to fish for roles in post #74 where you say "You know this. You want claims in case there are roles." to which I replied, in post #75, asking whether or not your PM has justification. Again, the focus here is not on your role, but on the justification. If your role PM has justification linking your state with your role, then your PM is an anomaly, an outlier, possible indicating you are lying. You later admit (in post #94) that you don't have justification.

Without justification, it is not possible for anyone to discern your role from your state, making state-claiming relatively safe. You raised this fear that knowing states allows scum to know who they can kill safely, but you propose no mechanism that they could use to do this. What makes Illinois safer (or not) than South Dakota or Texas or New York?

This has nothing to do with roles. The "theme" refers to affiliation (why some states are town vs. why some states are scum.)

Yes. Exactly. After a day of going round and round, and after almost 200 posts, then I started pushing for your claim (and only your claim). That hardly supports your accusation that I am "more interested in roles than states" and that it's "been all about roles."

(There was no indication that Strahd was taking any damage or in anyway hindered by the day time. Also consider that Drow have a very similar sunlight weakness)

@kindertina: Roger, what would you like to do instead?

@secular: I can neither confirm nor deny. Just clarifying what you are and are not doing.

Probs the Time Stone

(I didn't catch your action when I posted the combat thread. Do you still want to cast Sleep? Be aware it is an AOE, not a targeted spell)

(Turn undead?)

(You need a 50gp diamond in order to use Chromatic Orb)

(The only way out is through the front door)

Eikka, Roberts, and Ismark grab Ireena and (gently) pull her back into the chapel. Outside Strahd frowns, then smiles.

Strahd raises his hand and makes a quick motion with the flick of a wrist. Inside the church, in the room with the trap door leading to the undercroft, the group hears the sound of wood breaking. He then addresses Grahf and Snerp.

Ok, from my previously provided link

5.5.1 "Rhagoletis pomonella is a fly that is native to North America. Its normal host is the hawthorn tree. Sometime during the nineteenth century it began to infest apple trees. Since then it has begun to infest cherries, roses, pears and possibly other members of the rosaceae. Quite a bit of work has been done on the differences between flies infesting hawthorn and flies infesting apple. There appear to be differences in host preferences among populations. Offspring of females collected from on of these two hosts are more likely to select that host for oviposition (Prokopy et al. 1988). Genetic differences between flies on these two hosts have been found at 6 out of 13 allozyme loci (Feder et al. 1988, see also McPheron et al. 1988). Laboratory studies have shown an asynchrony in emergence time of adults between these two host races (Smith 1988). Flies from apple trees take about 40 days to mature, whereas flies from hawthorn trees take 54-60 days to mature. This makes sense when we consider that hawthorn fruit tends to mature later in the season that apples. Hybridization studies show that host preferences are inherited, but give no evidence of barriers to mating. This is a very exciting case. It may represent the early stages of a sympatric speciation event (considering the dispersal of R. pomonella to other plants it may even represent the beginning of an adaptive radiation). It is important to note that some of the leading researchers on this question are urging caution in interpreting it."

Maggot fly speciating into a new version that matures in fewer days.

5.1.1.1 "While studying the genetics of the evening primrose, Oenothera lamarckiana, de Vries (1905) found an unusual variant among his plants. O. lamarckiana has a chromosome number of 2N = 14. The variant had a chromosome number of 2N = 28. He found that he was unable to breed this variant with O. lamarckiana. He named this new species O. gigas."

The variant had twice as many chromosomes; more complex than the parent

5.2.1 "Gottlieb (1973) documented the speciation of Stephanomeira malheurensis. He found a single small population (< 250 plants) among a much larger population (> 25,000 plants) of S. exigua in Harney Co., Oregon. Both species are diploid and have the same number of chromosomes (N = 8). S. exigua is an obligate outcrosser exhibiting sporophytic self-incompatibility. S. malheurensis exhibits no self-incompatibility and self-pollinates. Though the two species look very similar, Gottlieb was able to document morphological differences in five characters plus chromosomal differences. F1 hybrids between the species produces only 50% of the seeds and 24% of the pollen that conspecific crosses produced. F2 hybrids showed various developmental abnormalities."

Speciation into two breeds of plans with same number of chromosomes.

Sure.

Hybridization, gene shifting, change in allelle frequencies, ring species, emergence of subspecies.

No, that would tale millions if not billions of years.

Post #21. I asked for a "country" which I later corrected to "state" in post #25. This was me explicitly asking for a state, not a role.

Post #37 isn't a post by me.

Post 396 is a post by me, sure, but is an explanation of my FOS on you.

You've accused me of being "more interested in roles than states". What post or posts demonstrate this specific claim.

You've made this claim that I learned that there were no roles at all in this game and then decided, based on this information to get everyone's claim. What post or posts demonstrate this specific claim?

Donavich: There is no other way out why... wait!

Donabich futility tries to stop Snerp as he marches outside.

Strahd's face betrays no emotion as he patiently listens to Snerps performance, stroking the head of one of the wolves as he does so. When Snerp is finished he feigns a smile.

Overhead the clouds darken and thunder echoes through the valley.

Inside, Ireena's eyes take on a glazed, thousand-yard-stare appearance. Wordlessly she begins to head toward the front door of the church.

(Mid morning)

I guess the game is over. I was going to wait for an End Game thread to pop up, but I guess it ain't happening.

Anyway, here is my analysis:

From my point of view, Town was divided into two camps: 1) people scum-reading the right people for the wrong reasons; and 2) people doing good analysis, but getting too distracted by camp #1. Only Budda and Danielle were really paying attention and trying to figure the game out while the rest were all over the place, misreading posts, misattributing votes, etc.

In short: the town got lucky.

That's not to say Mafia play was perfect. I didn't realize or know that the janitored role would have been revealed upon death. Otherwise I wouldn't have given the claim to GP to use. That really is what killed us.

I wanted to frame Vaarka NP1, but got overruled by GP. I DEFINITELY wanted to frame Vaarka NP2 (and kill either Danielle or Budda) but GP decided to kill Vaarka and frame Danielle. I do not understand his reasoning here or why he objected to my suggestion. Not that it mattered, as he was dead when Earth's claim was revealed.

If you disagree that town got lucky, consider how things would have played if me and GP were switched. Oh boy, it would have been a complete reversal.

SupaDudz, you didn't exactly have demigod playing here. Unless you're talking about the part where he lost his weapon, was crippled with self-doubt, was stranded on an island, and just happened to luck upon someone showing up with a boat.

Your "FOS" of me was based almost entirely on you missing or misreading large portions of what happened. Heck, you even outright misread an official vote count and tried to use that against me. Remember that your FOS on me was partly because I was defending RM who you scum read (horrible reason anyway), so that somehow also made me scum. Yet when you did a 180 and decided RM was town and was an expert on the show, you didn't change your stance.

You also apparently scum read me because I didn't provide an RFD for voting you when I never voted you in the first place! You even double-downed on this when you claimed that not only did I vote you, but I mysteriously switched my vote from you to jump on the Hammer bandwagon!

In reality, I did provide a reason for my "FOS" of you and had to be convinced by Budda to vote for Hammer (And even then, I didn't buy Budda's argument and had to come up with my own, independent reason). All of this you missed, were oblivious too, or simply ignored.

Yet, with Hammer as your "strongest" scum read and a janitored body, you decide to jump on my wagon. Yeah, you ended up being right, but let's not pretend you didn't just Mr. Magoo your way into the end zone, here.

What role do you envision it fulfilling?