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Miswrote that a bit. Meant to say from the last DP that he is a TP.
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@ILikePie5
Assuming he’s telling the truth from the last TP, we’d want to eliminate him anyway. The fact that he’s still alive suggests that he has more deathproof shots than the rest of us, which makes his claim likely. Still, would like to get some idea of who he targeted and see how many times he got vigged.
Speaking of which, I can confirm that I vigged him.
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@Lunatic
I’ll vig MC. At the moment, he’s the most sus to me.
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@Lunatic
What you guys think about Disci?
Haven’t played with him in a while, can’t say anything has been a substantial red flag to me as of yet.
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@Lunatic
Will say that I agree with you on both MC and Pie standing out. I can't tell if MC just misread his role (I know I asked Wylted to clarify it) or if he's trying to blend in, but either way, it's a pretty haphazard job he's doing. Pie is entirely behavioral at this point, just surprised by the lack of activity coming from him up to now. I'll unvote Supa on the basis that I can't really see the follow-up from him being scummy, given the lack of defensiveness, but I'll hold off on deciding who to sus for now. Want to see how they respond to you.
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Yeah... I agree that Supa's response looks pretty scummy. If he's not lying, then there's a problem with the modding in this game. Plausible as that may be, based on both Luna's response and my own PM, I find this particular issue hard to buy.
VTL Supa
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Alright, so it sounds like the same odd role is consistent between town members, at least. I think it's a given at this stage that scum has their own ?X Deathproof, which makes things somewhat difficult to suss out. I would assume that, based on my role and the claims others are giving, that town members are 4X, and I wouldn't be terribly surprised if scum had the same amount of deathproof shots, but it's also possible that they have more or that they have other means of protecting themselves. I'll also note that the number of vig shots we have is unlimited, so I don't think it's a great idea to limit the number of shots we take on a target. Too many won't cause any harm that I'm aware of. I do agree, however, that anyone we choose to lynch should be the target of vigs to back the lynch.
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@Lunatic
Doubt that'll work, though I'd be fine with that if we could somehow manage it.
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Heya.
"In destitution, even of feeling or purpose, a human being is more hauntingly human and vulnerable to kindnesses because there is the sense that things should be otherwise, and then the thought of what is wanting and what alleviation would be, and how the soul could be put at ease, restored. At home. But the soul finds its own home if it ever has a home at all.”
― Marilynne Robinson, Home
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@Wylted
Thanks! First game as scum where I survived to the end. Helped that we got some good opportunities to distract from Supa despite all the attention he was getting. That Redirect was huge.
And yeah, we were kind of relying on GP shooting from the hip when it came to voting in the end. Worked out.
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Honestly have no idea what makes you conclude that Bron is innocent. You sussed him during DP2, entirely stopped sussing him after he claimed tracker and got a no movement result on Oro of all people (he was the most town confirmed with Pie at the time, so he was a safe fake pick), and then played right into your meta with a blatant result to secure the Poly lynch. You don’t find that even slightly suspicious? Strange for someone who was wrong on both MC and Poly to claim that he’s so certain that his initial POE pool is still accurate. I know you tend to get pretty stubborn in games dude, but come on.
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Seems pretty obvious that Bron was lying about his Tracker read. In retrospect, the fact that he targeted Oro during NP1 didn't make a whole lot of sense. Oro was basically confirmed town by then. Great job getting Poly killed and, given just how gung-ho Wylted has been about lynching Poly, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were a scum team at this point. At least that explains why Bron suddenly vanished from Wylted's sus list after he claimed Tracker.
VTL drlebronski
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@Vader
Ah, I should give that now that we have the other claims before the thread closes.
I'm Kyle Noke, role is Bodyguard. Pretty straightforward justification, did some work as a bodyguard for Steve Irwin. Tried Pie DP1, Oro DP2.
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@drlebronski
Wow. Guess that settles that. Good choice if targets, Bron!
VTL Poly
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Given that Bron says Oro didn't do anything last night, I'll just hammer this so we can move on.
Unvote
VTNL
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@Wylted
I'm not the Cop. That being said, while I am wary of Poly's claim, this is a pretty ridiculous tactic to try. If they're smart, the Cop isn't going to claim that they're the Cop for obvious reasons.
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@ILikePie5
I'm fine doing a VTNL, but I'd like to at least hear from both Bron and Oro before then, particularly if the former has some investigation results.
Strangely enough, Oro has been on within the last hour and hasn't posted here.
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@Wylted
I understand that it's POE. I don't understand how the JK does nothing to modify the order in which you see those three. Supa is the only one of them could not have performed the NK during the last NP. If you want to keep him on the list on the off chance that his scum partner performed the NK, then fine, but I honestly can't see why you'd target him over Poly or Bron at this point.
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@Wylted
the scum pool is down to supa and poly. This game should be easy, and yes a lynch would end the dp if it is on me
I'm a bit lost on these reads. You thought that MC was pretty sus at the end of the last DP for reasons that I still don't understand, and he ended up being town. I can understand sussing a claimed Miller to some degree, and I get that that's just part of your meta, but I can't understand sussing Supa at this point. I don't know what set you off about him behaviorally, but if you buy that GP JK'd him during the last NP, then per your assumptions about him and Poly, you would have to assume that Poly performed the NK. Right now, Supa is the only person left in this game who, if we take GP at his word, could not have performed the NK. That doesn't town confirm him, but I have a hard time believing that he's obviously scum like you claim.
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@ILikePie5
Ah, didn’t see that. Alright, I see your point about the 5-2 situation. If he’s lying about the lynch proof, then getting him to L-1 should push him to full claim.
VTL Wylted
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@Wylted
@ILikePie5
He did claim lynchproof. Out of curiosity, Wylted, would a lynch on you end the DP?
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Huh, odd choice for the NK. Nice that we don’t lose MC’s input, usually pretty good at scum hunting when he’s active (certainly had it nailed last game).
Looks like Earth was telling the truth, which makes it all the odder that he was so obstinate.
Anyone have investigation results?
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@Wylted
It’s what they do. You don’t have to agree with the choice, but that doesn’t change the fact that there are articles which are far more thorough out there. Just because they’re not the most front and center doesn’t mean that they don’t count.
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@Wylted
Given what I’ve read, calling them “better breakdowns” is pretty subjective. They leave out large swaths of information to sell a very particular perspective, often by asserting their most essential information, is not what I’d call “better” in any sense of the word. Longer is not better.
The bigger news sites tend not to go into great detail because, as with most news stories, their aim is to distill difficult and detailed material down to a level anyone could understand. The CDC and other agencies that deliver a more thorough picture have all that information included and don’t leave large and deliberate gaps in what they provide.
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@Wylted
The point of this thread is not that anti vaccine arguments are better. The point is that if you are searching anti vaccine stuff, you are reading more thorough looking stuff. Why is that being ignored.
A. What you’ve done here is selected two very unlike article postings and compared them. That’s cherry-picking. You don’t know what “the average person” would see if they were searching for this information. You only know what you found based on a selective set of search terms. There are plenty of examples of extremely thorough and rigorous breakdowns of vaccine effectiveness that come up under searches for that information. Pointing to one where the conclusions were summarized is not representative.
B. I’m not clear about what makes the first source better (that’s the title of this thread) or even more thorough. It provides more information on something audiences may not be aware of, but that doesn’t make it more thorough. Throwing additional and entirely irrelevant information at your readers doesn’t make an argument more thorough, particularly if it’s doing no more than asserting the essential link that makes this argument work: that this stuff is in vaccines. At best, what you could argue is that this article looks more thorough because it gives this additional information. At worst, it functions as deliberate obfuscation, providing legitimate facts to cover for an argument that is obviously missing pieces. Having more background doesn’t make your argument more thorough if you’re still missing essential pieces.
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@Lunatic
Unfortunately not. Vote mod doesn’t get that capacity. Will have to be Supa or MC.
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To clarify, I mean that I can see better how, with the mindset that there’s no chance that Earth is scum, he would run a ridiculous gambit to save him, than how he would do this as part of a scum team to further their aims.
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@oromagi
Honestly don’t know. It’s either he’s being impulsively anti-town or he’s scum, and from what I can recall, he’s done the former (though not this weird) on a couple of occasions. I have to squint harder to see how this would benefit scum, so I’m inclined towards believing it’s anti-town town behavior.
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@Wylted
I sucked whiteflame into an argument with a schizophrenic boomer Trump supporter on Facebook.Sorry buddy. I honestly thought she would ignore you.
It’s fine. Didn’t have to post there, and don’t mind getting into it a bit.
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Well… that all just happened. Really don’t know what Wylted’s game plan was here other than to derail the lynch on Earth, for which he didn’t provide any more justification than that they were scum buddies in the previous game and he was behaviorally different then. Can’t say that’s very convincing to me, though all of this just reads as some ridiculous Hail Mary that leans more town to me than scum.
My vote will remain where it is.
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@Wylted
At best, what circumstances like that depict is a willingness by these companies to put others at risk who could not affect their bottom line. There’s a reason they don’t just distribute tainted product among the US population without consequences, and while the willingness to do it elsewhere is very concerning, it doesn’t demonstrate a willingness to do it at home. As for risk, let’s be clear: if everyone who received your vaccine died within 10 years, there is no doubt that you will cease to be a company in that time. The risk is absolute. The probability is 100%. I don’t know anyone who would take that risk.
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@Wylted
I'm not sure, but it's a lot easier to believe that there's one liar than many. As for the FDA being in bed with big pharma, I might believe that's more of a problem if we were talking about them just trying to get these companies more profits. I don't see how they or these companies stand to benefit from having a large portion of the population die off in the next 3-10 years. All these companies would go under overnight after this was discovered.
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@Wylted
So now you don't think that there are many researchers at these companies who are familiar with the ingredients? That the FDA never tests these vials for their contents? That none of the independent researchers who have tested the effects of vaccination have ever tested a vial? That no doctor in any lab across the country has ever pulled aside a single vial for their own testing? That none of those sent abroad have ever been tested? You talk about compartmentalization, but at best, that would only explain why some researchers at these companies would not know about this particular ingredient. It doesn't explain why any testing of the finished vaccine vials wouldn't reveal its presence.
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@Wylted
So, let me get this straight: you're telling me that thousands, tens of thousands of people who know about this ingredient and know the danger it presents are actively seeking to end large subsets of humanity because they effectively view themselves as Thanos from Infinity War. These people have family members and friends who have gotten vaccinated, and either didn't take the obvious opportunity to inform them ahead of time to prevent their inevitable deaths, or informed them and somehow swore that increasingly large number of people to absolute secrecy. Now we're talking about what could be tens or hundreds of thousands of people who are all in the know about this and never mention it to anyone.
...Yes, that seems far more likely than that this one guy is full of shit.
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@ILikePie5
Unvotw
Didn't you just say you were comfortable with this lynch? Did you have a change of heart?
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@Wylted
I haven't personally acquired a vial to test myself. How can I know none of that ingredient is in any of them?
Even if you had a vial, you likely couldn't do the requisite testing to see if graphine oxide was an ingredient. I'm not sure why researchers would add an actively poisonous ingredient to their vaccines, or why absolutely no one involved with the crafting, manufacture and injection of these vaccines would decide to say anything about the presence of such an ingredient. You're putting the onus on me to show that this ingredient isn't there, but you have no reason to believe that it would be aside from this person's claim. Why should I believe them over every single professional involved in this? The sheer amount of conspiracy involved in believing something like this is in our vaccines is massive, but for some reason, that extremely low likelihood is outweighed by one random PhD with no obvious credentials and, also, no access to a vial of vaccine.
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@ILikePie5
I'm willing to get on this one. Didn't get a good chance to see how Earth responded to pressure as scum in the last game (hard to say whether he vanished after we started sussing him purposefully or because he had something else going on), but it is strange that he got so defensive under this line of questioning. I still don't think trying to uncover scum by scrutinizing wincons makes a whole lot of sense in this game given the variety we've seen so far, but behaviorally, Earth seemed to be engaging in quite a bit of deflection. Not terribly strange that he'd get frustrated, but he still seems conctooerned with digging into things that aren't likely to matter as a means of drawing attention elsewhere (a mistake in the vote count/allocation is far more likely than that there is an active day phase vote thief that just gave themselves away). That stands out as scummy to me.
VTL Earth
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Well, looks like a lot has happened since I last checked in. MisterChris checked in and character claimed, so I’m satisfied there.
Unvote
Going to need to read more thoroughly before I can pick out any scummy behavior. Seems like there’s a lot being said about PM win cons that, based on the delightful back and forth I had with Oro earlier and the variety I’m seeing, I’m inclined to see as a red herring for the purposes of this game.
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@Wylted
...Have you read this garbage article?
The entire argument relies on the opinion of a Dr. Mylo Canderian, who the article actively states "is of the opinion that 95% of the world's population are "Useless Eaters" who need to be euthanized as quickly as possible... Dr. Canderian is an ardent supporter of Freemasonry's Duty and Obligation to rid the world of the "Plague of Humanity."" This alone makes his opinion pretty suspect, especially given the lack of any data presented on his part.
The "doctor" (I can't seem to find what he got his PhD in, but he is not a medical doctor, nor is it clear he has any expertise in this area aside from the assertion that he has a patent on Graphene Oxide) actively assumes that Graphene Oxide is present in the vaccines (it isn't) and derives every bit of his conclusions from that assumption. I'm sure that, when we are well past his estimated 3-10 year period and the massive death toll he envisions hasn't come to pass, he'll have another excuse for why it's going to happen in another few years based on similarly BS reasoning.
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@Greyparrot
Justification issues aren't normally something I pay a lot of attention to, and even here, the weak justification would not have been enough reason by itself for me to sus you. Mods use weak justifications all the time to get certain roles in the game. My issue is with how you responded to the push to get your justification, and that you chose to leave out the most relevant portion, only to claim that it had been there all along after the fact.
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@Wylted
you guys are on my shortlist of town. Please organize everyone from most town leading to scummiest so we can start narrowing in on a lynch target. It could take 2 days to do this so we should start coalescing around some people now and let our reads develop as we do so.
Town-lean:
Pie - I do think he would have taken advantage of some opportunities that he's gotten this DP, though he could be playing it cautious. Still, his behavior has been pretty townie all game.
Wylted - Generally reading pretty distinct from last game. He's putting more effort into his scum hunting and seems more engaged.
Oromagi - Despite pushing some tactics that initially looked scummy, including a claim that I still suspect is covering for something else, I have a harder time seeing how his tactics so far fit into scum than seeing them as townie.
Null:
drlebronski - I'm just rather unclear on what to expect from him this game. It's his second game ever and he's never been scum, so I'm not sure how he'd behave if he was. Bit of a wild card.
Earth - Haven't seen anything that stands out from him yet aside from the unpressured character claim.
MisterChris - AWOL
Supa - Haven't seen all that much beyond light probes from him. The defensive behavior from last game hasn't started up yet, but given that he was town when he was doing that, I'm
Poly - Maybe I'm just missing something, but I'm having trouble seeing the issues with his justification. The Miller claim invites skepticism, but I'm also not one to push for a lynch on that basis alone. He hasn't seemed super defensive, but I'll wait to see where Wylted is headed by seeking Oro's justification.
Scum-lean
Greyparrot - The justification issue is just looking a little sus to me. There may be some valid justification for his character's connection to the JK, but the fact that he presented a partial justification that had nothing to do with it before Wylted had to point out a link seems at least a little problematic, almost like he stumbled into a better justification after preparing a weak one. He does tend to be lazy about these things, so maybe that's the reason here, but at the moment, this makes him look more scummy to me.
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@ILikePie5
Let’s get a character from Chris. It’s the least he can do for his inactivity
Agreed.
VTL MisterChris
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@ILikePie5
Guess that's true. I'm exhausted, so I think I'll call it here and read back through everything in the morning when I can think straight. For now, though, I'll leave it at an unvote
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Great. So all that shit over win cons from Oro was just a ploy to uncover scum. I guess that's why Oro targeted drlebronski before me as well, though given the fact that some of us appear to have different wincons, the fact that he claimed one doesn't town confirm him.
I think there's enough pressure on GP now without adding mine to the mix, so I'll stay with my current vote.
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@oromagi
I gave it to you already. I'll repeat: you win with the town. That's my phrasing.
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