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@Lunatic
I'm the Supa now.
Well, it was fun being me. Lunatic, you definitely figured out my role after my character claim, don't think it would have been much use until later game in any case.
I gave LSD to warren. He asked for it, and I bought his claim from the previous DP, so I figured he'd be a safe choice.
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@ILikePie5
I really don't think that Draft would make that much of a slip-up. I'm sure he's aware of the split, and honestly, that makes me see him more as town, since I doubt a scum team would have come up with that as a cover.
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@warren42
I feel like a push on me is relatively opportunistic, I've given no reason to indicate I'm scum and have provided a clear outline of my thoughts/reads.
It's precisely because you've managed mostly to steer clear of providing any reasons to associate you with either town or scum that we're putting pressure on you. Admittedly, bit of a coin flip between you and Pie (Danielle would be in the picture as well if she were feeling better), but that's where things stand. I don't want another day phase to end without any leads.
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@drafterman
Alright, guess you're welcome to push and see if anyone else will join you, though I doubt it considering I'm not the only one who saw your behavior as suspicious.
I don't see anything particularly suspicious about the claims given so far. Hard to make any calls for Pie, Danielle and Warren due to their being largely absent over the last 24 hours (Danielle gave an excuse, though). Still, I see more value in putting pressure on them because of how little we know about them, and though I suspect that any claim they make now will appear valid, I'd rather goad some more activity at this point and see some claims than leave them as is. Gotta start somewhere.
VTL Warren
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@drafterman
But I'm mainly back on you for the behavior early this DP.
Frankly, for behavior alone, I'd be back on you as well, though I buy your claim so I'm not voting to lynch you. Do you doubt my claim?
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@drafterman
I find it odd that you're suddenly targeting me. You got a character claim from Speed. You have one from me as well. Are you pushing for a role claim from me, and if so, why are you refusing to push for the same on Speed?
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@Vader
Whatever it is, I’m wishing you and yours the best, Supa.
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Sorry guys, long day. Regarding what's been posted so far, despite my misgivings with him, I do buy Draft's claim and find it difficult to believe that he's scum, given that he would probably use a safer, more clearly town claim. Maybe this is just a galaxy brain move, but I'm not convinced he's doing something like that.
Based on the exchange going in between Supa and Lunatic, I also have little reason to suspect either of them, though they could be running their own fantastic con.
I don't have much of a read on anyone else, and I think the lack of information is playing into that, especially with That1's absence and the relative quiet from quite a few people. Life's busy, and I'm certainly not one to talk about that activity level. That being said, while I am not suspicious of anyone just yet, I will participate in pushing more people to get some claims, and since Draft's leaning town to me and Speed's the only one with votes, I guess you're it until we get a claim.
VTL Speed
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I will post on this at the end of the work day... got a lot going on in the lab today.
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@warren42
Your original posts were from whiteflame, not me
Well, we do both have w's at the start of our usernames. Basically makes us identical twins.
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@drafterman
@ILikePie5
Alright, now that you've role claimed, we can move on from this. That1User hopped on about 24 hours ago. She was too late to post in DP1, but she could feasibly have been interfacing with scum during NP1. That might explain why she hasn't been replaced. That being said, putting a vote on her is either going to lead to a lynch or nothing at this stage because I'm not convinced she will respond if pushed, especially given her prolonged absence, so I'll just vote to get Pie active.
VTL Pie
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@drafterman
Based on your last response, I will at least wait to hear from Lunatic before making a call. I won't draw attention to my reasons for doing so.
My character is a crime in itself. Not a superset label of generically criminal behavior of which specific crimes are a part of. What about yours?
I gave my full character claim, so no, it's not given as a subset. That being said, my claim isn't a subset of a larger category of generically criminal behavior, so I wouldn't have that label. Would you?
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@drafterman
I have no objections to pursuing a role claim from Lunatic. My issue, and I've pointed this out several times, is that you appear to have some reason to want it before you provide your own. I'm not sure why, and every time I probe for it, you dance away from an answer and claim that all will be revealed if I just get that claim, as though it unlocks some magical door that somehow makes your claim sensible. If there's some reason for you to wait for Lunatic to claim first, I want to know what it is. I don't want vague allusions, I want actual reasons. If you've got them, give them. I'll take those in lieu of an actual claim, but you're clearly hiding something.
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@drafterman
I don't know anything. That's your inference not my implication. I want to know something: Lunatic's role. The only information I have to give is my full claim. But I want Lunatic's first.
So, you don't know anything, but for some reason, getting a claim from Lunatic triggers your capacity to claim? Something about knowing his role provides you with sufficient information to say what you are and why that matters? You keep saying that you'd be happy to explain something as soon as he claims, so how are you not implying that information about his role somehow clarifies something about yours or allows you to do something that you can't do without it? Maybe you don't have information, but you have a reason for doing this that you are not providing.
I did see that. But his crime should then be "bribery" not "corruption." Corruption isn't a crime or a class of crimes it's just a colloquial phrase. This is my sticking point.
Not sure why the specification in his post doesn't clarify that his role is a crime, but I guess that's your interpretation, one we're not on the same page about.
Right, generally you vote people as scum when you have a reason to think they're scum. What's you're reason for thinking I'm scum?
Frankly, I didn't have any strong reason to believe you were scum beyond any strong unwillingness to claim. You've doubled down on that unwillingness since I voted for you. I'm still struggling with the reason why and I think it could be justified, but I'm not seeing you justify it. I'm just seeing you continuously imply that there are justifications, and I just have to push on Lunatic to find them... somehow.
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@Danielle
Lol I didn't even realize we had 5/5 votes but I don't care, I'd hammer. I'm not playing these games.
Right there with you. If Draft would rather be lynched than claim, then I'll push to lynch at this stage, though if we can get more information this DP before the lynch, I'll push for that.
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@Speedrace
Somebody unvote so we can get Lunatic to confirm what Supa said
Assuming he hasn't been lynched, I'll get off of this train to do this. I think Draft's vote count includes you when you unvoted, so he should still be fine.
Unvote
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@drafterman
If you want to know the aim of all of this is, pressure Lunatic. I currently do not have any additional information that could be used to support a vote on Lunatic.
I'd rather press you. You keep hinting that you know something, but refuse to say what it is until we get a claim from Lunatic. Do you know something that you can definitely tell us, but only after Lunatic gives his claim, or will Lunatic's claim somehow unlock information that you don't currently have?
Right, but he didn't claim bribery, he claimed corruption. Bribery is a crime. Corruption is just a generic colloquialism.
Quoting from DP1: "corruption- Accepting bribes for favors"
As in, he is this subset of corruption. If all you did was look back at the summaries posted later in DP1, you might not have seen this. Why should I ignore the specification within the same post where he claimed?
Maybe it is. But if you don't think I'm scum then it's also anti-town to be voting me.
I didn't say I don't think you're scum. I said I don't understand why you'd take this route as scum. I'm absolutely willing to be convinced that there's merit to it, but I haven't seen that yet.
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@drafterman
Dude, I'm not going to vote for him on the basis that you're actively hiding information that you will suddenly choose to reveal if he claims. I'm not sure what the aim of all this is, but if there's information you could be giving me to better support a vote for Lunatic, do it. I'm not going to take "I'll tell you later" as an excuse to vote for someone else, nor do I think your character analysis does much to push me in that direction (we don't have any other character claims beyond his and mine, so we have very few to compare with, and it's not just corruption, but specifically BRIBERY that's the criminal offense). Frankly, I don't know why you'd be willing to do this if you're scum, but if you're so willing to be lynched before saying anything about your character or role, that seems at least anti-town to me.
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Frankly, if you feel so strongly that a push for Lunatic's claim is warranted but mine is not, I haven't seen a good reason for it anywhere beyond what is at best a weak statement about "corruption" not fitting as a crime, which doesn't seem particularly persuasive to me. Why are you pushing so hard on him, specifically, when all you have is a technicality about a character claim, especially when we don't have any more information about other roles? Also, where was this in the last DP?
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@drafterman
I didn't say anything about you looking scummy. Defensive?
Misread a previous post. And yeah, hinging your claim on someone else's claim is a little different. Don't understand why you're doing it, and it stands to me as an odd choice. Not sure why you're hinging your claim on his.
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@drafterman
I've given my reasons for specifically choosing you as a target. Admitting that they're imperfect doesn't mean that I've randomly slapped a vote down. If you want me to pressure with you, then you have to claim. If you refuse to do so, well, then we're stuck where we are. Don't really care if you think that makes me look scummy.
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@drafterman
And I've told you how to get me to vote with you to get a claim from Lunatic. Guess we're at an impasse.
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@drafterman
All the more reason for me to hold to it. Again, awfully similar behavior to your previous escapades. If you want to call it random choice, go ahead, but I'm sticking with my vote.
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@drafterman
Forgive me if prior experience has made me unlikely to trust this effort to push someone else to get a claim from you. I'll throw it back at you: claim and I'll push for a full claim on Lunatic with you.
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@drafterman
Why do you believe lunatics character claim?
Did I say I did?
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@drafterman
Didn't say it was a perfect reason. I don't have solid intel on anyone at this stage, not going to stop me from trying to get something going. This is consistent with your recent play where you've been scum. Being consistent with one other game where you were town doesn't mean my suspicions disappear, and right now, you're the one I'd like a claim from most of all.
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@drafterman
At this stage, it honestly has more to do with your behavior looking rather similar to the last 2 games, where you refused to claim under pressure. It has less to do with your activity, though that did seem low for you as well. Other people may also be down in terms of participation, but you were unusually quiet.
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Also, well done, scum. Rare for me to thank you guys, but you done good.
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@Lunatic
Not a stretch for me. Looking for a claim.
VTL Draft
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@Lunatic
Alright, would still be willing to lynch That1 as well, assuming we get more people on board.
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@Lunatic
Alright, that at least gives us something to work with. Can think of a couple of plausible roles for that. Anyone you want to push?
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@Lunatic
I'd be up for pushing for at least one more claim, unless someone else is willing to volunteer at least a character claim.
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@Danielle
Anyone voting that1user knows they are wasting their vote at this point. Pick someone else. How about Pie?
Fair point, though I'm not currently sus of Pie. Might change. I'd vote for Supa because of his odd analysis, but that's his bread and butter, so I'll try to do what I couldn't accomplish in past games and see if I can get a claim from draft.
VTL Draft
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@That1User
Guess that just leaves you. Got about 14 hours left in the DP.
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Well, That1User hasn't even been on the last 6 days, which doesn't bode well for our debate or for her in this game.
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@MisterChris
Now I know what to challenge you on xD
*runs away in terror*
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@MisterChris
Yupppp, I figured most of our debaters would be INTP/ENTP types. Whiteflame is an outlier
I'm pretty much an outlier wherever I go. Scientists are almost always hardcore judging types (though IST is very common among that group), so I stand out among them. Debaters certainly tend to be more intuitive. So both groups that I would consider myself to be party to have a very different "normal" in their personalities than I occupy.
I see... Clearly you've done a good job learning how to pick out flaws in arguments. And by focusing on the concrete, you've got an advantage when it comes to policy topics I think. You can more easily see how things may actually play out in the "real world."
Yeah, though that also makes it more difficult to see anything that isn't concrete. Give me a philosophical topic and I'll play around on the shallow end of the pool, trying to link things to greater impacts. I've learned how to pick out flaws, but it's usually about pattern recognition - take me out of that pattern and I start to lose my grip real fast.
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@MisterChris
100% true. It's part of why I tend to focus in so hard on impacts. I think the more intuitive tend to tell better stories with their arguments and notice more faults automatically. I had to really train hard to get to that point, but it's not at all natural for me.
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@MisterChris
Also, for what it's worth, there's an additional letter that's been appended to the end of the other four in the longer form tests. It's either an A or a T, Assertive or Turbulent. I'm personally very strongly Assertive, so my full readout would be ISTP-A.
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@ILikePie5
Yup, he prides himself in being able to WIFOM out of sticky situations - Whiteflame can confirm
Not too difficult to confirm this. Definitely something he'd do.
Just the same, we have two people who haven't posted at all, so I'd like to get some movement on their parts. Danielle I can wait on, but That1 should really be posting by now. Besides, this will function as a reminder to post her next round in our debate.
VTL That1User
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@MisterChris
I've come up as a number of variants when I take the online test, but when I've taken the full-length study test (and yeah, I realize none of them are perfect), I get:
ISTP
In case you're wondering, the flips for the other tests came up I/E and P/J. When I took the long form, the sliders had me pretty close to the line on both of those. When I'm debating, I'm more of an ESTP, and when I'm focused on scientific research pursuits, I'm more of an ISTJ. I'm a very strong ST.
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