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@Casey_Risk
It’s late and I’m headed to bed, but not before I respond to this.
I’ve read over your messages a few times and I’m honestly lost on where your read on me is coming from. As far as I can tell, you put it down to two points, both of which have context that you’re leaving out.
Saying "I like Earth's response" feels really weird to me when Earth hasn't really said anything of substance. I don't understand where that townread comes from.
Look back at my read on Earth. Those words do not appear in it. This is what I said:
This is almost entirely on the back of that female softclaim. Scum were given some indication of what not to claim, but this is a situation where I'd expect scum to try to hide in the crowd and not pick the outlying sex with fewer characters. The other much smaller ping is that statement about the lack of a good vs. evil theme split in prior games. I don't think scum would be trying to reduce the number of theme split options this early.
So, no, it has nothing to do with liking a response of his. It mostly has to do with softclaiming a female character, which seems to dramatically limit his options for a fake claim and, to a much lesser extent, how he framed a potential theme split.
Oh yeah, another thing I don't like about WF: his suggestion that Moozer is being hardbussed.
This one is far more galling. I started my response to you by pointing out that those that avoided addressing Moozer’s claim or gave him leeway for it were my picks for likely scum partners. I stated who those people were (WyIted and Pie) and then stated outright that my pick was between the two of them. Only after that did I say anything about a chance of hard bussing, and I stated that no one stood out from anyone who sussed Moozer for his claim. If that’s me suggesting that Moozer was hard bussed, then I clearly did a bad job of conveying myself in the literal paragraph that came before any statement about potential hard bussing. Just because I’m unwilling to dismiss the option entirely doesn’t mean I’m suggesting it happened.
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@Moozer325
I echo That2’s sentiment. You believe it was likely that at least one scum member was on your wagon, but so far, you’ve only suggested that could be the case to get a claim. Who on your wagon do you think is most likely scum and why?
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@Casey_Risk
Who do you think his partner is?
TBH, I’m not sure. I haven't seen anyone pushing back on Moozer’s lynch aside from maybe WyIted who gave some cover to the Vanilla role based on Vader’s previous games. So aside from him, I could focus on who didn’t have a response to the claim, but I think that’s only That2 and they’re my strongest townread. I could just assume whoever it is has started bussing Moozer, which limits the options somewhat to who I think would do it and why. I did find it odd that Pie just shifted over to Bullish after Moozer’s claim, never discussed it, and then only brought him back up after being asked, saying he didn’t think Moozer was scum, and then using him as a means to sus me as a potential partner with him.
So, yeah, I can see a basis for either WyIted or Pie being his partner. Not a hard read on either as I can see Moozer getting hard bussed after that claim, but if that’s true, no one else is sticking out to me.
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@Lunatic
Good to get the insight, haven’t read too deeply into the character.
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I realize you asked for an explanation, but it seems obvious. He claimed Vanilla after pushing back on claiming up until L-1. He hopped on at least once after being sussed and still hopped offline and back on, posted reads instead of a response. He was behaviorally a little sus in his defensiveness of Casey and That2 (still think it’s odd that he defended them both) just not seeming to get the basis despite having the experience to know what was going on.
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@ILikePie5
Forgot to tag. Who do you want to lynch at this very moment and why?
Moozer.
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Yeah, I'm not comfortable with the Vanilla claim, either, especially given that Moozer had to be brought to L-1 to give it. I'm good with leaving things here for now, but he's moved into a slight scum read for me, even if his responses don't come off as too defensive.
Unvote
I believe Bullish is at 3 votes, so I'll leave it here for now.
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Also, noticed he was on 15 minutes ago. Not helping your case, dude.
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@Moozer325
Didn’t notice that we are down to 2 votes on Moozer so that’s where my vote is going for now:
VTL Moozer
VTL Moozer
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@Moozer325
Busier morning than usual so I only had limited time to do this, but here are my reads:
Luna - Very slight townread. He gave me a set of reads so I'm mainly evaluating Luna based on those. There are perhaps a few too many null reads in here, but I can at least see where he's coming from on each of them. At the very least, I think he's honestly evaluating the game as it stands, and I get pushing back on Bullish's early tactics and then pushing Moozer based on those reads.
Pie - Null. Mainly been calling out activity a lot of this game, which I can't read either way even though it's valid. I agree with his basic reads since Moozer and Bullish are both in my PoE as well, but I'm going to need more detailed thoughts before I can come to any conclusions with him.
That2 - Strongest townread. The back-and-forth over That2's claim came off as authentic and the probing especially came off as legitimate theme analysis. That2 has also been pretty forthcoming and suggestive of their claim in a way no one else has so far, not to mention the response to being pressured was very distinct from their last game where they were scum.
Wylted - Very slight townread. Never feel like I'm terribly clear on WyIted, especially when he seems to be developing his thoughts from post to post and reading back through the DP. I understand his logic this game for the most part, and his pressure on Moozer (like that from a couple of others in this game) feels genuine, so I'm siding with the slight townread over the basic null.
Casey - Slight townread. This is more behavioral as I think Casey's response to Bullish's reasons for pressuring That2 and in general his meta seemed authentic and more thoughtful for a defense of someone I'm already townreading than I'd expect from scum, particularly this early.
Earth - Slight townread. This is almost entirely on the back of that female softclaim. Scum were given some indication of what not to claim, but this is a situation where I'd expect scum to try to hide in the crowd and not pick the outlying sex with fewer characters. The other much smaller ping is that statement about the lack of a good vs. evil theme split in prior games. I don't think scum would be trying to reduce the number of theme split options this early.
Moozer - Null. As many of you have suggested already, Moozer has enough experience in this game that he shouldn't be surprised when attention is drawn to certain players based on weak or even entirely external reasoning. That being said, this is his first time back in a hot minute and I find it a little unlikely that, as scum, he's defending multiple players. I can see the basis for scumreading him and he's still in my PoE, but he remains uncertain to me.
Bullish - Slight scumread. He argued early that there's really "no analysis necessary here" based on a faulty view that this game would necessarily be a simple split of good vs. bad characters, which came off as a little dismissive of the theme. At the same time, he also argued that we should get a round of softclaims based on each characters relationship with Tony, which wasn't initially his suggestion and seemed a bit like piggy-backing on That2. Both are weak reasons to read him, but they rubbed me the wrong way.
So right now, I'm good with info from Moozer or Bullish. We already have 3 votes on Moozer and I'd like to see how he responds to that before layering on any more pressure. It says he was on about 9 hours ago, so he could have seen the vote totals at that time, but it's hard to be sure.
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@ILikePie5
I think everyone has done something besides WF to move the game forward. I also can never read him, so I’m fine pursuing this.
Fair enough. TBH, haven't been all that engaged this game as of yet. I'm not going to give the usual excuse of DP1 being what it is, but usually I focus on theme at this stage and I know next to nothing about this theme, so I've been a bit apathetic.
What are your reads and why
I'll work on it.
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I don't think either Bullish or WyIted is actively pursuing Casey for a lynch. I think this is just them striking out somewhat randomly (perhaps with some gutread) to find any weak links they can in order to pursue a claim. It's weak logic, but it's not like we have a direction for pursuing anything currently, so I guess it's as good as any right now.
That being said, I'm not going to just hop onboard the wagon for this. I'm going to need some better reasoning for pursuing Casey specifically based on this game. If there isn't, then I might as well roll the dice and pick someone at random.
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@Earth
I don't remember the last time we had a good vs evil theme spilt.
I'd say the closest I can easily remember is the Debate Mafia game. I wouldn't say that it's "good vs. evil" per se, but it was clearly sketchy tactics vs. much more normal elements of any given debate round.
That being said, it doesn't really matter since it doesn't seem like this theme has that kind of clean split between characters anyway. It might have others, but I'm unclear what they would be.
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@Bullish
1. whiteflame - male
2. iLikePie5 - male
3. That2 - female (close to Tony)
4. WyIted - male
5. Casey - male
6. Earth - female
7. Moozer - male
8. Lunatic - male
9. Bullish
@Bullish To my knowledge, you're the only one who hasn't claimed a sex.
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@That2User
This is a classic whiteflame post, he posted like this in the SK mafia and was town, not a scum post by whiteflame imo
To be fair, I'd probably do something similar on either side.
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@That2User
Are you friendly, antagonistic, or mixed with Tony? He has many friends, lovers, and enemies. Even people in his own family go against him.
From what I can glean, friendly.
Does your role pm mention destruction/survival?
Not in those specific words, though his efforts aimed at survival are implied.
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@That2User
Helps with solving the game, I am not asking you to directly character claim. I feel you are Tony Soprano, Idk why else you'd not want to say who you are in relation to him...
I'm not going to claim my relation to Tony Soprano because, as I believe is true of several characters in here, my doing so would provide way too much information. I'm not going further than that.
i am close af to tony sopranoFair enough. Is your role tightly related to your character?Yes!
Then I feel OK with just getting your softclaim for now. Others might disagree, but I'll leave that to them.
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@That2User
i am close af to tony soprano
Fair enough. Is your role tightly related to your character?
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@That2User
i will full claim when I'm in e-1
First off, it's L-1. Second, I'm not sure why you're so adamant that you must be put at this threshold in order to claim. If your character/role justifies that, then fine, but if it doesn't, then statements like this are going to make you look sus.
i want everyone voting me (wyIted,whiteflame,pie) to character claim
Worth checking back at the vote tally. I'm not VTLing you right now (the third vote is Luna's, not mine), though you're definitely making me consider it.
what is your relationship to tony soprano?
I'm going to need a very good reason to provide that.
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Accidentally entered my post early. Anyway, I doubt Vader told them everything, so mafia might actually be prone to cc'ing. I think we should tell the genders of our character.
I'm fine with that. My character is male.
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@Earth
This is way too much pressure on That2 for RVS.
Really? It's 3 votes. I don't feel any need to pile on at this point unless That2 is more resistant, but I'll note that That2 did come on already with 2 votes already placed and didn't respond.
I interpreted that as mafia
Not really seeing what you mean by this.
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Alright, somewhat well rested... after being woken up two times during the night... but the daily dose of caffeine helps.
Anyway, not much to say on the exchange so far. I'm fine with getting That2's claim, though I'll note that their knowledge of the series might improve their odds of crafting a good fake claim. I say "might" because I've seen plenty of players well-versed in the theme just fumble their fake claims entirely. That being said, regardless of what claims we get, we should be firmly aware of these two elements of the setup that Supa mentioned:
1) There is a theme split in this game that mafia are aware of2) Mafia were not given fake claims but were given a hint about what to not claim. Mafia were also given a hint on a role that does not and does exist in this game
If they know the theme split, any fake claims are going to be made to put them on the right side of the split. And given that they have been given at least one clean fake role claim, plus hints about what exists in the game, scum will have an easier time crafting fake claims this game.
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It’s late so I’m not going to stay on, just checking in. Like I said in the sign-ups, I have seen none of this show and I’m only familiar with the basic concept of it and some of what happens, so I’ll probably be useless on theme. Wouldn’t be able to tell you anything about my character beyond the PM if I hadn’t looked them up. Overly focusing on theme often leads me down the wrong path anyway, so might be for the best.
Anyway, I’ll check back in tomorrow.
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@Bullish
when whiteflame said he wouldn't die and and then immediately died:
Lol. My PM seriously didn't make it clear. I did ask as well, but got a response after the fact. Didn't matter tremendously, but yep, it was funny.
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@WyIted
He didn't know I was scum do1
Alright then. Would've picked up on something nonexistent. Lots of reasons to lynch you this or last DP, though.
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@WyIted
GG. Nice job hanging in there to the end, definitely would have VTL'd you last DP if I was still alive. No one mentioned it, but Savant was clearly putting some distance between you two purposefully back in DP1.
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@That2User
Lol, I'm spoiled already. When it comes to series like this that have been out for a while, spoilers are fair game.
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@That2User
I feel you will be deeply interested in Melfi's therapy sessions with Tony
I know enough to know it's great. Got a couple of series like that that I just have to sit down and watch one of these days.
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@ILikePie5
Wouldn’t you die right now cause That2 died?
According to my PM, it’s unidirectional. If I die, That2 dies. If That2 dies, I shrug and bemoan my survival.
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@AustinL0926
Lowkey I just realized it's kinda unlucky that Casey docced WF because otherwise we'd have That2 and WF dead (same result) but we'd still have the lynch today.Still should be a good position for town tho.
Yeah, kind of a shame. Thought I was going to get my moment to shine, but Casey stole it from me and made me live. Now I’ll never get to die.
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@ILikePie5
What was your reason for choosing That2?
Found the claim unbelievable. Weak Hider didn’t make sense with the character. Also just generally thought That2’s behavior was sus.
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@AustinL0926
If there's only two mafia, then the last mafia role would need to be extremely powerful.
We’ll have to see the flip. If there’s a TP involved or a third scum somehow, we’ll figure it out next DP.
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@That2User
Yep, it was either you and me together or just you alone. I’ll take the win.
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Fuck it, I’ll just claim now.
Aileen Wuornos had a morbid fascination with suicide and taken together with the sexual nature of her crimes, I am the town Lover. At the end of the last DP, I selected That2. If I’d have died, That2 would have died with me. Still could do that since lynching me accomplishes the same goal.
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@That2User
Lol, this is ridiculous. I fully buy that Casey Doc’d me. That role makes a whole lot more sense for that character than for the Unabomber. Also, that would require that I believe That2 faked their character and role claim DP1, which… why? Also also, seems WyIted Tracked Casey to me, which validates Casey’s action.
I’m happy to full claim after I take a shower. Honestly, it’s kind of funny given how this played out. We can discuss, but That2 is pretty clearly scum.
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Well... alright then. Didn't really get a chance to type up my thoughts, but I probably would have voted Savant in the end.
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@Savant
I'm a little hesitant to push him based on the troll vs. contributing ratio, but I will acknowledge a lack of information about his character and role. That does suggest a question, though: are you looking for specifics on his character and/or role or do you believe that he should just be lynched outright?
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@Savant
If hider claim is scum, then unless they hide behind their partner, they'll have to eliminate a town player from the PoE every day.
Again, fair. See above.
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Miswrote that. I meant the lynch next DP anyway, not the NK.
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@Savant
We can lynch the hider claim later. If they're town, then at least we got some utility from it.
There's some validity to that since That2 could at least validate the target they choose for NP1 (though it's likely That2 will just be the NK next DP anyway). I will point out that you know that my current alternative is you, right? Your current vote's on WyIted. Convince me that that's the right choice.
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@That2User
@Casey_Risk
Alright then. Interesting claim. One thing that bugs me a bit about it, however, is that Gary Ridgway himself wasn't hiding from anyone (at least, not any more so than any of the rest of us), but rather he was hiding other people from being found. That's what stands out to me the most. Does anyone else have a role that doesn't directly relate to what your character actually did themself?
Yeah, I have the same reaction to the Hider claim. I don't love that the role is built on your serial killer hiding corpses rather than hiding himself. My role is very explicitly tied to the actions of my character.
Beyond that, the Hider role is just one that comes off as very safe with a perceived "validation" achieved by never being killed by hiding behind scum. It should almost be sussed by default since scum necessarily won't die as a result of using it, so each NP you survive makes it stand out more.
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@ILikePie5
@That2User
I want to lynch That2. Something feels off with her compared to previous game.I did. She’s been a lot more interrogative compared to last game and she’s shifted a lot
I'm a little undecided between Savant and That2, but I can see a case for That2 that goes beyond a claim. I agree, That2's behavior this game does feel significantly different than it did last game. I think interrogative does make sense as a descriptor (I pointed out that That2 was online after Bullish claimed but it took quite a while after that before they posted again), and the character claim has me a bit on edge as well. Just feels a little off compared with most of the claims so far, a little safer.
At the very least, I think a full claim is warranted.
VTL That2
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@Casey_Risk
Alright, fair enough then. Still weird that Savant would be a member of a pair like that, however. I've kind of been operating under the assumption that that's what's going on with Pie tbh. I would really like to hear his input.
Yep, I flagged that, too.
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@Casey_Risk
Ctrl+F doesn't reveal anything about 'code' or 'message' on the wiki page.
To be fair, I found this on the Moors Murderers and it does mention coded messages and as a key to finding a final victim:
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@Savant
I'm Myra Hindley. I wrote coded messages to Ian Brady, hence I am the messanger. I can message one other player at night. I assisted Ian Brady in sexual assault against children, though the way my role PM was written, I don't think I raped the children myself.
Yep, that's an odd one, since both people were involved in these murders. I did see some info about coded messages between the two of them, though that's a strange justification for the Messenger. Will need to think on this one.
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@Casey_Risk
If Savant claims anyone else, I think I'm going to have a hard time believing it tbh. I want his full claim as soon as he gets back online, and it better be a hell of a good one.
Understandable. If he CCs me, I’m absolutely good with full claiming to settle this.
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@Casey_Risk
I kind of want to get fullclaims from both of you now.
I'd rather avoid that until Savant claims his character, but we can go from there.
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@Casey_Risk
I'm actually not sure which of them is more likely to be lying here. It's weird that WF saw Savant's softclaim and didn't immediately pick up on who he was softing.
I did say I only just recently spotted his soft claim. Kind of assumed there could be someone else who fit that description, but I haven't had the time to research it since.
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