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@AustinL0926
I'm Batman vs Sherlock Holmes. Since I have Sherlock's deduction abilities, I'm the Odd-night Lie Detector.
Interesting. Based on this, you wouldn't have a result for NP2, but the role could still be used NP3, so it could still be valuable. It does create a sort of symmetry with Pie's Even Night role, even if they're very different roles.
N1, I submitted "Apart from them [Pie and the inactives], I have at least a town lean on most everyone except Luna, whose behavior so far has been null to me" by WHITEFLAME to lie detect.
Fair choice. I think the reasoning for selecting me as a target makes sense as well. I like the breakdown of how this would play out, pretty clear how you should interpret the result, just a shame you didn't get one.
FYI I strongly lean towards Whiteflame having been framed. He's smart enough as scum to not use an executioner ability right after voting, that's just atrocious play when it'd be much easier to lurk until someone else was posting in thread and then message Casey or smth.
It's WIFOM thinking, but obviously I agree.
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Apologies for the delay, I've had to squeeze what is normally about 3-4 hours of work into less than half that time after taking my wife to and from an appointment this morning. When I get a chance, I'll post something more substantial.
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@iamanabanana
The times don't add up, it looks like you, maybe savant and greyparrot were the only ones on when the day phase ended and we know both of them are town. Austin hadn't posted in a full hour before end of the phase. You voted, and five minutes later the day phase ended. That looks shady as heck mister...
You’d have to believe I was being super obvious about it. You’d also have to believe that Austin wasn’t watching the site without being logged in (done that plenty as scum), and his partner wasn't a factor. Again, I understand the sus, I just don’t get why you’re writing them off.
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@Lunatic
We’re wrapping up here. Given that Vader has already claimed, I’m fine with doing it, though it’s a bit of a pseudo-CC given his killing role:
I am Edgar Allen Poe VS Stephen King. I’m the Phantom. Each night I can target a player to haunt. If I was the target for that night’s kill, I would redirect the kill to the player I haunted. It only works once, so if it’s successful, I essentially become Vanilla.
The justification is that both writers focus on themes and references to their dark writing style that leave their readers horrified trying to outdo one another.
I used my role on you NP1 because you were my strongest scumread by the end of that DP, then I used it on Austin NP2.
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@iamanabanana
Okay so shouldn't it be obvious then? Whiteflame is scum because he voted savant and then savant was conveniently at the number needed for the mafia to use that role...Vtl whiteflame.
Anyone could have taken advantage of my vote, and I’m not the only player alive who had their vote on Savant. I understand the sus, but I’m pretty careful as scum. Why would I just give myself away when the tides were already against Savant without my help?
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@Lunatic
I’m in a medical appointment with my wife and I’ll respond when I get a chance. For now, suffice it to say that I’m fine claiming if necessary, though I want a claim from Austin at least beforehand. As for my reason to vote Savant, that comes down to his strange prioritization of targeting with his role and his decision to flip on me to get attention off of himself with little to no reasoning behind it.
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@AustinL0926
Well, that was my mistake. It seems someone was waiting for enough votes to execute Savant and got it with mine. His behavior was sus, but it seems like we have this problem every game when he’s town.
Not surprised GP was NK’d, given that he was widely townread. It does reduce my PoE, so now I’m down to Austin and Vader.
Given that the person who RB’d you NP1 is dead, Austin, what did you do NP2?
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@AustinL0926
Oh this is a pretty bad post.POE relies on having townreads, and shifting nullreads to scumreads as a result. Savant's main reason for scumreading GP and Vader comes down to POE, which doesn't make sense when he has two nullreads and a leantown.I think the level of confidence in his POE is disproportionate to the level of confidence in his townreads.That aside, the tertiary reasons for scumreading Vader is pretty bad. Being proactive early is a fundamentally towny trait.Combined with his weird JK play earlier, I'm comfortable toVTL Savant
The more I keep reading his past posts and the one you’re addressing here, the more uncertain I am. Pretty much all of my read relies on the Justice result, but you’re right that his reads don’t make a lot of sense, nor his target prioritizing for his role. I also just don’t get his sudden shift to me at all, it seems very opportunistic.
I don’t love him being the lynch, but I can’t square his behavior with what I previously thought.
VTL Savant
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@AustinL0926
WF? Gambler's fallacy..? Surely you know better...?
Considering I’m townreading him, I do. It clearly wasn’t enough by itself to push me in that direction.
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@Savant
I don’t love how Vader has been viewing and talking about Banana, mainly because I just don’t see a world in which she could be faking this as scum, but I don’t agree that he hasn’t adequately considered GP. He’s given clear thoughts on what makes him townread GP. As for GP’s perspective, he was mischaractetizing our positions on Banana, but I have trouble scumreading someone who is being that obviously wrong without pushing a vote on that basis.
Honestly I've been waffling on Vader and Grey since my post, and I'm willing to go after WF since we need to lynch someone. Only people I'm sure about are me and Luna.VTL Whiteflame
I don’t love this reasoning for defaulting to me because other people are scumreading me, but I guess if you’re just equally unsure and lynching in PoE, it makes some sense.
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@Savant
Alright, so more of a test using the RB than the protection of the JK. I get that. Also, crazy odds that you’d be the town RB two games in a row. I’d be sussing that if not for the Justice result.
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@Greyparrot
@AustinL0926
@Savant
This is why I really shouldn’t post when I don’t have downtime to do so.
My PoE is down to Vader, Austin and GP, not Savant. I gave my reasoning earlier for why the Justice role makes it more likely Savant is town, and then mixed him up with Austin in my last post.
While I am townreading you right now, Savant, could you explain your reasoning for targeting Austin?
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@Greyparrot
Did you see that? savant and WF want to 1v1 us...
Savant and Vader are the only two people besides you who are in my PoE, I haven't made a call on who I think is more sus between the two of them, both of them are over you right now, and I'm not 1v1ing anyone.
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@Vader
This was kind of the response I was looking for to a certain degree. I just noticed a pattern in a lot of your DP1 games you tend to reply and be engaged in more behavioral analysis. Even last game, which I can't say with activity level, I felt your posts had way more substance and more analytical thought to them with more of you talking to multiple people and contesting major points. Just seemed like you didn't do that a lot and I don't want to go activity hunting, just felt like at times you "rode the inactivity" that was happening
I'd say that's fair enough. I didn't post the kind of behavioral analysis I'd like to have done. I understand scumreading me over it, as I can only say that I've had more limited time due to work over the last couple of days of the first DP, which is usually where I coalesce my reads and analysis of the game at large.
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@Greyparrot
okay, but 3rd party is very likely, and I would hope you don't follow savant and WF lynching 3rd party.
Neither Savant nor I are on Banana's wagon, GP. I said straight up that I buy her claim.
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Alright, I'll start with thoughts on how the NP shook out.
I think given Pie had claimed PGO straight up and was adamant about it in his back-and-forth with Earth, scum would have little reason to disbelieve it. So either scum got extremely lucky and killed him on an off night for his role, or they somehow knew he had an even night role. That's pretty specific information to have, but I'd sooner believe that they had it and used it than that they just took the risk.
As for the claims so far, the Justice claim does seem opportunistic. Even absent an investigative role claim so far (which WyIted might have - scum seem to have inside information on existing roles, so I wouldn't be surprised if they Silenced him for that reason), trusting the Justice role could potentially lead to two mislynches, and given how much sus Luna was getting last DP, I would believe that he'd pull a gambit like this. Banana's claim, however, makes me second-guess that. I could see Casey putting a TP in the game to frustrate investigative roles. Without additional info on who else this could frustrate, and with the fact that Luna apparently has one person who would investigate as scum on his result (scum being given this amount of information just seems absurd), I'm inclined to believe him.
Back to Banana's claim. As of right now, I'm buying it. I get the balance argument that Vader's making, but particularly considering the nature of this role and how it can win with either scum or town, I don't see it as implausible that it could exist in a 7-2-1 game. I'm not going to give Banana the excuse that she's a noob, but her decision not to just SOP claim at the beginning of the game might have more to do with when she came into it as well as the apparent existence of a fake claim in her PM. That element is the one that has me a little less certain because I find it distinctly odd that someone with this role would get a fake claim when scum apparently didn't, but the rest of the claim doesn't line up with what I'd expect if she's scum. Drawing attention to herself at this stage and doing so shortly after the Justice claim with her as a target just doesn't add up. That's also going to explain my read on Savant, since it wouldn't make sense for the Justice to show these two as having different affiliations if he's scum. There's a chance that he has some role that resulted in him being investigated as town like a GF, but odds are low that Casey would have picked a TP and a scum GF to frustrate reads this much.
I actually do buy that WyIted might Silence himself, but this series of events doesn't make sense if he did. Pie was most likely to townread him based on whatever his role was, since he seemed to understand what WyIted meant when he softclaimed his role last DP. I don't know why he'd Silence himself and go through the trouble of killing the person who was most likely to townread him.
As for where that puts me with PoE, the pool is down to Austin and Vader with an outside chance of GP. Austin came off as pretty townie last DP, but it would hardly be the first time he's come off this well behaviorally. I can't explain the failed use of his role on me based on my role, and I'll claim if desired to explain why, though doing so will neuter it. Vader also came off as behaviorally townie in DP1 (it's actually the main reason I was townreading him, since I like that he was trying to solve the theme, like I said during that DP), but I don't like how he's characterizing me this DP. It's strange that he says that I was "relying on a theme split" when I only threw out a couple of ideas and focused on behavior for almost all of my reads. I suggested a couple of potential splits, but they never featured in my reads. That being said, I can understand sussing me for my lack of activity last DP. Fair to say I wasn't as active as I wanted to be last DP and that I have a history of being more passive as scum, and I can't expect anyone to trust that I've been busy. I'll try to step it up this DP.
As for why GP's on the list, I can't say I have had any reason to scumread either his behavior (sheeping Pie or any other player he sees as town is pretty normal play for him) or his Millionaire role claim, which would be an odd one for scum, but I'm always hesitant to give any roles that only activate on death a pass due to the lack of confirmation. I think he is more likely to be town than either Austin or Vader due to both a role claim I wouldn't expect from scum and behavior that feels genuine to him as town, but I can't dismiss him entirely.
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@Earth
@ILikePie5
Yes, Casey would, given I am town. And have you already forgotten that Pie is town?
I'd hesitate to call this a scum slip from Earth, especially given how he has already stated how strongly he sees Pie as town, though he'd certainly be even more certain if he was scum.
I had more reason to vote based on the inquiries about Pie's PGO, as I already stated. I have even more now that I see his claim. The DP3 Informed Townie is convenient both on the level of its timing, which is essentially "keep me alive for 2 DPs and I'll give you useful information," and based on its proximity to our last game where Pie was just Informed and received information up front. The lack of a justification really doesn't help his case, especially since he just got into this game and any fake claim coming from him is likely to be half-baked.
That's enough to make Earth stand out as scummy, so that's where my vote goes.
VTL Earth
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I'm finishing a lot of data entry before lunch. I'll post when I get a chance.
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@Earth
Sleep has been hard to come by over this last week, so forgive me if I'm a little slow this morning.
I'm still seeing more of a case against Earth than I am against Luna atm. The first post asking if the PGO had limitations was already a little weird, but specifying one of those potential limiters raised alarm bells. It's an odd way to join the conversation 2 and 4 posts into him being added to the game, and struck me as an effort to get information that can only hurt town. I'd like to give him a chance to full claim before we make a decision (I don't like that he has stayed quiet on any information regarding his claim despite being sussed) before I make a call on whether he should be the lynch, especially given the extended DP, hence the ping.
As for Luna, I'd like to see a lot more from him next DP and I'm fine seeking a full claim from him as soon as it starts. If we get Earth's claim, that will be three full claims (GP and Pie included) and a character claim + softclaimed role from WyIted, which already seems like a lot given that we know scum can ask about two characters and roles this DP.
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I understand the reasoning on both Earth and Luna. Not sure why so many people are still on Banana at this point, but her post reads like someone who was following pretty closely along with the game and is coming in with a lot of thoughts. Even if Banana was scum, I don't think her scum partner would give her a whole set of reads to post up front like this.
As for the decision between Luna and Earth, it's mainly one between largely inactivity/fluff posting from the former and the questions on Pie's PGO from the latter. It's harder with Luna because he's had games like this where he's just largely absent and involved only at a surface level as both scum and town. It's harder to explain the questions on Pie's role. Any insight he gains will inform visits, and I don't see why town would be aiming to test a PGO claim in the first place, particularly if they're townreading Pie.
I'm going to sleep on this and decide in the morning, since we have the time whether we get the extra 6 hours or not.
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@Casey_Risk
Just noticed the vote total still has my name on it. I unvoted WyIted a while back.
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@WyIted
So Casey asked for a vote on an extension. She did not grant one yet just to clarify
True, sent a PM
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@Casey_Risk
@iamanabanana
Alright, just got home and glad to see Banana has joined the party in Redeemed’s place. Thanks for all your efforts to find a replacement, Casey, and thanks for stepping up, Banana. Also, appreciate the extension. That means the DP will end close-ish to this time tomorrow.
As for how to handle the introduction of a new player, I’d like to avoid another full claim unless absolutely necessary to make a decision. Better to get a softclaim. Banana, I’d appreciate if you could respond to this post when you get a chance.
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@WyIted
Is there more to this sus than my not mentioning the game had started during the Israel/Gaza back-and-forth?
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@WyIted
I will have you know that I was talking to whiteflame the other day on my discord channel. It's a public chat and he didn't once mention the game started to me.This will sound like a lie but the chat is publicly available. I was defending Israel and the Jews from Whiteflame and another users antisemitism at the time.
Based on what Casey already said about hitting up inactives, I figured you had already been pinged on Discord.
Also... don't love that characterization of my position.
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@WyIted
Glad to see you're on for this and that we got a replacement for one of our inactives.
Unvote
I don't know how to find a season but I assume seasons are one year long so it came out in 2013
Not quite how it splits out. That could be either season 2 or 3, given that both cross into 2013. Here's the breakdown:
I'm guessing from this response that yours is not on my list?
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@Savant
@Redeemed
VTL RedeemedHis last comment says he received the massage from Casey
I hadn't realized where he'd been posting. It took a second to find the comment you're talking about, but it's baffling that he's now publicly confirmed receiving Casey's PM and hasn't posted once in here.
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Well, at this point we're nearing the final 24 hours of this DP, so we're going to need to start making some choices.
Pie volunteering himself as a policy lynch to replace one of the inactives reads as townie to me, even if I'm opposed to it. Generally not into policy lynches in the first place, though the alternative is just lynching one of our inactives and I understand why Pie would prefer to just shuffle out of his current role since his being PGO isn't doing us any favors. From his perspective at least, I can understand why he'd prefer to be the policy lynch, so I'm weighing that against just getting rid of a dead weight player at this point.
Apart from them, I have at least a town lean on most everyone except Luna, whose behavior so far has been null to me. I've got enough to do this morning at work that I can't write out my full reads right now, but whether it's Vader's working to solve the theme, GP's relatively usual behavior and somewhat unusual claim that nonetheless fits his role, Austin's logical and careful approach to the game so far, or Savant's engagement with others throughout the game so far, everyone else reads as town.
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@Vader
@Savant
I'd like to get a straight answer from both of them as well. They're both new enough to the site that not seeing their PMs or be aware of ping notifications, but if Redeemed is posting comments, then he can only be so unaware.
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@Savant
It's hard to say with Luna, usually depends on how busy his schedule is. It doesn't seem like he's engaged in this game, especially not like he was with the Inheritance Cycle game, though it doesn't seem like he has that kind of knowledge of the theme this time around.
Regardless, I would like to see more activity out of him before the DP ends and some substance to his posts when he does. It would not be a first for him to coast through DP1 as either scum or town, but it isn't something we should be allowing from even a semi-active player in a game with three inactives.
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@Lunatic
@Savant
He randomly doesnt cehck site for sometimes 3-4 days, I ran into the same issue with starting my game because he didn't check DART
Unfortunately true. Really don't like it, but he has a habit of doing it.
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@WyIted
Apologies for my absence. I'm taking part in a clinical trial and getting setup this morning plus doing my usual morning tasks at work kept me busy.
The absence of our two new players is frustrating and hopefully they can at least manage some activity this DP. The other notable absence is WyIted, who hasn't posted once so far this DP. Don't think he said anything about being busy, so time for a ping.
VTL WyIted
Not going to say too much about Vader and Austin being off the list I posted. Popularity may have driven a lot of the selections for this game, but Casey likely also picked based on personal preference or to ensure a balanced setup. I appreciate your both giving your seasons. Austin at least seems pretty townie behaviorally, and I've got a slight town lean on Vader based on his efforts to solve the theme split. I'll be interested to see where he's going with it.
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@Savant
Based on the existing claims and my own, these seem to be popular ERBs. That’s pretty consistent between just choices I would pick and ones I found that the online that are generally regarded as the “best.”
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@Savant
Ah, I misunderstood. I don’t think there’s a uniting theme on town, I just don’t see that as probable given the wide range. I think it’s more likely that there’s a separate pair that’s distinct from the rest in some fashion.
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@Savant
I’m doing some admittedly limited theme analysis based on my take-aways from the two claims so far and from my own ERB. It’s not meant to connect with your ongoing conversation with Pie and Austin.
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Figured I'd compile a list of probable ERBs in this game. I've excluded the 2 known ERBs and I'll give away that mine is in to this group. Still struggling to think of splits beyond a basic distinguishing element like "Villain vs. Villain" or instances of recurring characters, which do occasionally happen in ERBs (I think Abraham Lincoln showed up 3 times after his first appearance, always in a political match-up after he battled Chuck Norris).
Rasputin vs. Stalin
Jim Henson vs. Stan Lee
Darth Vader vs. Hitler
Steven Spielberg vs. Alfred Hitchcock
Jack the Ripper vs. Hannibal Lecter
Joker vs. Pennywise
Barack Obama vs. Mitt Romney
Mozart vs. Skrillex
Luke Skywalker vs. Harry Potter
Edgar Allan Poe Vs. Stephen King
Albert Einstein vs. Stephen Hawking
J.R.R. Tolkien vs. George R.R. Martin
James Bond vs. Austin Powers
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@Greyparrot
My experience with Savant is that he tends to pivot quite a bit in his susses, though he does that as both scum and town and has been sussed for doing it before.
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@Savant
Forgot to ask this earlier, but what does being a millionaire have to do with leaving a message after death?
I'm guessing the idea is that a millionaire has a lot of money to will to their descendants. The version of the role I've seen before wills items they've received to others, but given that that phrasing is absent from GP's claim, it's likely there either aren't items or that's otherwise not a factor in this game.
Austin's first post comes off a bit scummy to me. Maybe it's just because of how many times I've played with him specifically. As town he tends to start with posts that move the game forward, whereas when he's scum he's more likely to make posts that try to avoid any suspicion. i.e. "just checking in" or "Pie SOP claiming makes sense" which contributes very little.VTL Austin
I'm not going to read too much into an initial post. Where Austin goes from here will matter more than where he started. If there's a pattern there, it'll become more apparent.
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Those extra 12 hours will be welcome this game.
No surprise in GP's ERB claim or Pie's for that matter, though the role for the former makes more sense than that for the latter. Not really what I'd expect for PGO, but I guess it's possible.
I suspect many of the most popular ERBs are in this game, though I'm unclear on where the theme split could be, given that there's such a wide variety of fictional characters and real life people used. I don't want to get mired in theme analysis because that usually sends me down the wrong path anyway, but I'll be thinking on some possible splits as the game goes on.
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Largely just checking in and calling it since it’s late.
It’s been a while since I’ve seen most of these, but I binged them back in grad school and loved the experience. Particularly fond of Oppenheimer vs. Thanos if anyone wants an absurd pairing that somehow works.
Anyway, I’ll collect my thoughts tomorrow.
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@ILikePie5
Ya Wylted switched me to Beloved Princess. I was hoping worst case yall NK me and we get another lynch. Kept that in my back pocket
That’s cool, nicely kept under wraps.
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@Vader
If somehow it got to 2v1 it would've been between You WF and Casey. We wanted to get rid of any WF credibility thru all the innocent cop results to draw a lot of suspicion + not being NK'd
Honestly, that might have ended badly, though I think I would have sussed Casey enough to vote them in the end. Pie was winning me over in our back and forth.
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@Lunatic
Hey, it was still fun, bound to be a little wonky. Thanks for the interesting design, enjoyed it.
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Oh, and I guess VTL Casey since that looks like the hammer.
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@ILikePie5
Glad I didn't let my sus on you get in the way of seeing the two actual scum as scum. Apologies if I was frustrating about it.
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Lol, I went away and the game's over. Damn. Guess the plan worked. GG guys.
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@Earth
@ILikePie5
Just so everyone knows. We need to test Earth twice. Assuming his shot goes through today and he isn’t lying, he needs to attempt to change is vote.If we lynch Casey after, whoever is alive tomorrow needs to make Earth vote to make sure his vote doesn’t count. If it doesn’t count AND Supa or Casey flipped scum, Earth is mechanically town confirmed because scum cannot win without their vote.
Fair enough.
Would you like to explain why Supa is not dead yet?
I’d like to understand that as well. Earth, you said you confirmed it.
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@ILikePie5
It is what it is. We’ll use the information we get when it arrives at this point.
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