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@Mharman
I didn’t get what I wanted out of that. It was a reaction test. No one acted in a way I felt was expressly scummy.
Strange test. Not sure what you were expecting if someone was acting scummy in response.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
So there is no way to confirm your role is what you said it was except Cerulean's claim.
Figured this was obvious since it's a point that has been made by several people already. Either we're both scum and we've played a very long game to convince you and others that I'm town, or neither of us are scum and Cerulean just confirmed me as town.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Has anyone else been informed of a secret word besides Cerulean? If so that would confirm the role, or something similar.
You've said this or something similar to it now a couple of times. This is not and has never been how my role works. The Voodoo Lady doesn't send a secret word to anyone. I picked a 15-letter word that one person (in this case, Cerulean) had to say in order for my role to activate. He didn't get sent that word, he wasn't informed he had a word to say by Pie, he was simply the only one who could say it and activate my role, at which point he was contacted by Pie with the resultant information that I am town. No one else had that opportunity because, like I've said multiple times, I was roleblocked in the first two NPs. I also said that I targeted Luna in both NPs, who is now dead and cannot respond to you.
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Well today was... fun at work. Rarely so slammed that I barely have time to check in online, but here we are.
We are now well under 24 hours out from the end of the DP, so people are going to have to make their decisions. Mharman mentioned making his in "a few hours" over 8 hours ago, so there's that. It seems that Austin and I are thinking in a similar vein, don't know how Cerulean is thinking. I'm honestly good with either ADOL or Mharman as a lynch, though right now, I prefer the former to the latter if only because I feel a little more secure on that one for reasons I've already mentioned.
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@Cerulean
Gratified that the coin flip worked in our favor.
So at this point, there are really only two possibilities for anyone who isn’t you or me:
Either we are a scum team, or we are both town. That’s the one part of Mharman’s analysis that I agree with. From our position, PoE is between Austin, Mharman and ADOL.
So if you’re in that pool, the decision is straightforward: either you buy that Cerulean and I have concocted this elaborate scheme to get us townread at this late stage, or you buy that we’re town and your scum picks are the other two.
For Cerulean and I, it’s mainly a question of who we think is likeliest to be scum among the three in our PoE, and for me, that’s ADOL. I can see a world in which Austin and Mharman are a scum team, but it’s far harder for me to buy than is either of them being paired with ADOL, and for right now anyway, Mharman is my pick for his partner. The fact that he isn’t all over ADOL over the decision to VTL him at the end of the last DP, instead spreading out attention based almost entirely on distaste with prior behavior, sets me off. And Mharman has been behaviorally strange for much of the game. I called out my uncertainties regarding him in DP1 and, while Austin has seemed to lean more into town behaviors, I’ve just become less and less convinced of Mharman as the game has gone on.
So right now at least, those are my scum team. I can get into more of why I’m behaviorally sussing them, but I just don’t buy ADOL’s role at all, and the BP is not as much of a given as I’d initially thought. The absence of protective roles beyond Casey’s would not be impossible.
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@Cerulean
I have been informed that the effective coin flip has taken place. I do not know the result.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Intentionally delaying has only the purpose of "creating distance" (Whiteflame's words, not mine). What you might call an "amateurish attempt to unpair".Waiting to hear some arguments isn't intentionally delaying and I didn't say anything about delaying, I was counter-arguing Whiteflame's claim that delay increased trust.
Considering I was a part of this conversation and am getting referenced multiple times, it’s interesting what you chose to leave out.
I did point out that Cerulean could have been using the delay to create distance between us. I also said he could be using it to make sure he wasn’t making a mistake by stumbling blindly into a trap. So, no, I don’t agree that the only interpretation of his decision to delay was scummy, and particularly given the reasoning he gave for eventually agreeing to say the word, I think it’s more likely he wanted to make sure it was a good decision. Do you take issue with the reasons he gave for eventually saying it? Because he did, and I haven’t seen you address that.
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@Cerulean
Pie hasn’t been online since, so we’ll just have to wait and see.
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@AustinL0926
The way your role is worded - assuming you're telling the truth, then there's also a 50% chance nothing will happen, right? Will Pie inform you if this is the case?
It does say there’s a 50% chance it will work, so I assume the fail state will just be nothing. I’ll check in with Pie if he comes on about whether I’ll receive any kind of confirmation.
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@AustinL0926
@Cerulean
I can guarantee the game’s not over regardless of whether Cerulean gets a response, just hope he does. Appreciate the trust.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
All I'm saying is that of the many possibilities this choice slightly limits them either way.
Then clearly, I understand your point significantly less than I initially thought, since the whole idea of there being a disjoint between us seemed to stem from the delay.
Regardless, I don't think this is getting us anywhere, so I'm going to cut off here. The onus falls to Cerulean to decide, and then the rest of us to interpret what results.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Delay, what could possibly change given town is about to lose? There is nothing to delay for.
That's... a weird way to frame that. Are you assuming we're going to mislynch? And much as I agree that a decision has to be made, I disagree that there's no reason for delay. The DP is still 72 hours, and especially if there is mistrust in my role, it makes nothing but sense to go back through previous DPs to get at least a somewhat clearer perception of me, particularly as town.
If at any point he makes the claim that you were revealed to be town the disjoint becomes a joint: either you're both scum or you're both town.
So it's a disjoint until he makes a decision because we are not on the same page about whether/how to proceed, but that changes if he does proceed. Now I get why you said it was weak.
If he is just delaying then it is more likely that you are both scum because the reason he gave for not saying the word won't become less valid the closer we get to the end of the day.
I don't get this. He perceives a risk of the game ending if he says the word. If, by the end of the DP, he decides to do nothing, then the decision to do nothing is anti-town. If he decides instead to VTL someone because he doesn't want to accept the risk, I don't see how that makes him or me scummy.
To me, the delay implies no distance.
I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "distance" because this seems to contradict your point about there being a disjoint between us because of the delay.
It's up to Cerulean whether to risk saying the word or not, but delay without cause creates distrust (from me) not trust. I wouldn't blame him if he was town and took the risk because the odds aren't great without more evidence.
So you're scumreading him for the delay and would townread him for saying the word and taking the risk. Am I reading that right?
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Cerulean claiming that you hexed him and then it was revealed that you were town would be a fake townread which would direct attention elsewhere.
It’s not hexing (though I get why you’d say that since I’m the Voodoo Lady), though I guess your point is that Cerulean would have immediately said the word and claimed I was town, that there’s no point in delay. That’s fair enough I guess, though even if we were a team, I could see him wanting to put distance between us, which his decision to delay has.
Sorry, Cerulean/Elva.
Another passive role claim. His role will only activate if he’s NK’d.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
The town loses if we don't lynch scum this time.
Correct.
So bulletproof prevents you from being nightkilled right?So it would always be useful for a townie, but it would also be the ideal role to lie about to explain why you get night killed last.On the other hand scum bulletproof would be a useless role if none of the town had the capacity to night kill. Lunatic had the capacity to night kill, but after he admitted to being vanillized it became unprovable.
Luna's flip confirmed his role. That being said, a scum BP seems unlikely just to counter that and would put town at an even greater disadvantage. If Mharman is BP, he's almost certainly town.
This is apparently an unusual role and I think that is the true theme of this game.
Unusual roles do seem common, but I'd hesitate to call it the "true theme of" the game. It's common, but that doesn't make it absolute, hence we're still debating the more common BP.
Again I have come to a weak disjoint: I do not believe that Cerulean and Whiteflame are the scum team.Given the roles already claimed it would be just as easy for Cerulean to claim that Whiteflame is confirmed town (in that case).
Why? My goal could be to get Cerulean to fake a townread on me to direct attention elsewhere, which fits this scenario. Why are we necessarily not on a team?
Is there any evidence that Austin/Oromis actually motivated anyone?
Considering he Motivated the claimed BP, no. The only night action we're aware of is that scum RB'd me that night, and since I don't think Motivators give someone an extra shot of their role if they're already spent, I don't think that factors here.
Is there any evidence that Mharmen/Elva actually did the fortune protection thing?
Mharman claimed the BP role. He shouldn't have a night action. What fortune protection thing?
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As I see it, we're kind of stuck here until a decision is made.
If Cerulean chooses to type the word, then we move forward from whatever results, which unfortunately may still be nothing after so many attempts. I'll be glad I got to try it at least.
If he doesn't, then we decide who to lynch absent those results, and frankly, in that case, I should be on the chopping block automatically. If there's too much risk in typing the word this DP, and that likely won't change next DP (when I'll probably be dead anyway since scum would have no choice but to leave Cerulean alive given his role and I at least have a PR that could potentially be dangerous). Cerulean is my strongest townread and, absent Mharman's opinion that he or I are scum (I'm unclear on how ADOL perceives him), the most widely townread player in this game right now. Luna townread him, and I agree with his view. If I didn't, I wouldn't have selected him as my target. So, if Cerulean chooses to VTL me, I'll consider my lynch a given.
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@Cerulean
The problem is, and I did not think of this until Night already came, is that if WF is a fatal version of Voodoo Lady, saying the word would instantly end the game for a Mafia win. So I'm going to think it through before I actually do it.
I mean, I guess it's not impossible, though don't think I would have just given away my actual role while simultaneously rewriting it to craft a town role... though now you're giving me ideas for future games...
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@Mharman
Just noting that that word is 16 letters. Careful of those plurals.
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Oh, and it also doesn’t appear to matter if someone else says it. I’m the only one who cannot, but Cerulean must.
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I’m going to keep analysis light until Cerulean gets on, and I’m going to a movie this afternoon that will delay my posting until the evening.
Suffice it to say I still think ADOL comes off as particularly scummy after that move at the end of the DP to VTL Mharman. He’s new to this, but that felt particularly tailored to alleviate suspicions in a way that only raised mine. I’ll leave it there and discuss my suspicions regarding who I think his partner is later.
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@Mharman
I could tell Cerulean the word if he's not able to get it
I think I’ve been blatant enough, and I don’t think it’ll affect anything for you to say it, but I’m double-checking just in case.
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@Cerulean
Well, we might as well test this since I didn’t get a message saying my action failed. I targeted you (strongest townread after Luna, least likely to be NK’d due to your role) and I gave a different 15 letter word. 50% chance this works if you get it:
I just want to show you I appreciate you for all your hard work in this game. If I was writing a book about this game, I’d put your name right at the start in a section I’d use to show I care about your contributions.
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@Lunatic
The DP should’ve been over about 3 hours ago.
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@AustinL0926
I’m thinking on it, but appreciate the consideration.
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@Mharman
@ADreamOfLiberty
VTL Mharman, like I said; I've got nothing, but maybe this will convince Whiteflame we aren't a scum team. Won't be on for the rest of the phase.??? ok Im not his teammate but him saying it out loud ruins that if he's trying to disassociate... maybe I am giving him too much of a pass hold on
Yeah, I don’t like this either, especially since I said it could be either you or Austin and he defaulted to you. Not terribly convincing, but seems like we’re stuck this DP.
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@AustinL0926
I agree with Cerulean - I'm not voting for a lynch without Luna here - if we start wagoning scum, then we won't be able to get the 4th vote from town, while if we start wagoning town, then scum can just jump on for a quickhammer. There's no scenario where we would hit scum today.
You’ve got a point. I could see a world in which one scum busses their partner, but that seems unlikely at best. Guess we’re resigned to a NL this DP.
Unvote
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@Cerulean
There's already not much room for a mistake. If we lynch wrong here, we lose unless Mafia has some miraculously bad negative utility role or someone partially fake claimed.
True enough, I’m just not convinced we stand to gain much by waiting. Maybe that’s just the pessimist in me since my role could potentially change that if I get to use it.
So you could have just said "Hey, Lunatic, can you pretty please write out the full name for JOAT?" and that would have been fine?
I got the impression that that would count as using the word myself. I could have asked him to spell out the role that has multiple 1X shots of different PRs, but if I’d gotten to use it, I probably would have been more subtle in case I lost the coin flip.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Hey, a lot of people lynched Wylted, several are apparently veterans
For decidedly different reasons. That’s my point.
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@Cerulean
This is a really late time to be asking, but WF, how exactly is your speech restricted with your word? You can't say the exact word, what about other forms of it? Are you allowed to discuss the specifics?
Since I didn’t get to use my role, I can say whatever I want about it. My speech is only restricted insofar as I cannot say the word myself. I didn’t get to ask about other forms of it, but I wasn’t intending to use them.
I'm having a last-minute hesitancy about what would be stopping you from hard claiming that and then being extremely obvious about your word, if that role were to be real.
I did hard claim. I gave my full role and asked if anyone wanted the word. No one asked, so I thought people didn’t see it as important.
Also, I may as well ask because I don't recall you saying it, what was the word you were using?
I’ll give you it now: Jack-of-all-trades. Yes, I can use hyphenated words and yes, Luna would have had to spell it out, with or without hyphens. I’ll likely be forced to use a different word if I get to use my role this NP since I’m giving it away now, but that’s fine.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Alright, we have a little over 2 hours left and I think we need to start making picks at this point. I've become progressively less certain of Mharman and, especially looking back on his behaviors in the first two DPs, I can't say his role alone is enough to pull him out of my PoE. So, aside from Cerulean and Luna, everyone else is in my PoE.
There's been some discussion of whether to NL this DP. Strikes me that it doesn't really matter if it's NL or a lynch so long as said lynch is not on me. Scum are likely to either eliminate Luna (as the only solid town in the game) or me (as the only one with an active PR) at this point. I'll leave that part of the decision open and just stake out who I think is the best choice for a lynch based on what we know.
I'm pretty torn when it comes to Mharman and Austin, but I don't believe they're a scum team. Mharman has made clear for a while that Austin's been in his PoE along with Cerulean and me. If anything, his focus has been more on Austin than Cerulean, perhaps more than me. Maybe that's just pretty effective bussing, but I also just don't buy that Austin would pretend to target his own scum partner without employing any sort of confirmation like he did with his fake Messenger a number of games back. I just don't see him tying himself to his scum partner without some clear reason for doing it. So, while I think one of them is scum, there is one person who fits for both of them as a plausible teammate:
VTL ADOL
The combination of a role that looks very similar to Cerulean's, which makes me think it was designed to look similar enough to not be sussed, the plethora of negative utility roles, and the apparently particularly weak justification make his claim stand out. It's harder to read him behaviorally. His reasoning for being on WyIted's lynch isn't strong, but it does make sense for someone new to the game. I think he has been coasting on the view that Pie wouldn't make a new player scum as well.
So that's where I'm leaving things for now. If people want to discuss this decision or push for other options, now's the time.
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@Lunatic
I get it, I just have to try and believe pie would write that, because her character is a witch, she should literally understand and use magic more than just about anyone else. I don't know how the words "flashy or grand" really apply in terms of practicality here. I mean if you are town and pie genuinely wrote that, it's possible, I just think he misunderstood Angela if so. Parts of the claim make sense to me, and its definitely not the most suspicious of the claims, I also have issues with mharmans and ADOL's. Austins too kind of only because I am wary of how familiar with the theme he is, I don't like motivator though in context to the rest of the roles claimed, but it almost makes too much sense for Oromis.
Fair enough, just wanted to make sure that we are on the same page with regards to the justification I've given. I'll trust that there are elements of it that don't fully line up with the character, even if I can't really speak to those issues.
And yeah, I understood what you have to say about Mharman and ADOL. Part of the problem for all four of us (I'm including Austin in this) is that we claimed this DP. All our roles have some element of sus to them, and though I'm buying Mharman's to some degree just based on balance, it's still an outlier.
Anyway, I'm stuck at home due to a snowstorm. I'll have time to reread the DPs this afternoon and make a decision, hopefully before the last minute this time.
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@Lunatic
I do not like that whiteflame describes her as having little to no magical impact on the events of the series, because that is just innacurate.
I'm not sure where you're getting this from either of my paraphrased justifications. The closest line I can figure you're referencing is the "anything to write home about" point when it comes to how her magic is perceived, which I clarified was more about not being as flashy or grand as others. It's not about impact on the series.
I don't feel like he is being very risky at all with the claim, it feels very safe to me. It fits with the theme of "new roles" we are seeing from pie this game, and he was roleblocked both nights. If he is scum he is definitely playing it more safe, though you can view the roleblock gambit as being ballsy, but I did note that was a town aspect of him I was considering as well.
Frankly, I agree with your take over Mharman's. I think the risk Mharman perceives is if I'm actually the scum Voodoo Lady and I would have given myself away by claiming a variant Voodoo Lady, which would be a risk, but that assumes that I didn't just scroll through Mafia Universe and find the role there to use in place of another role entirely. I was surprised to see I was the target of the RB twice in a row, though I'll note that no one else has been RB'd or, to my knowledge, had their roles affected in any way by scum. It's possible we just don't know what scum has done because the effects are less obvious. It's possible scum is just so weak that they don't have any substantial manipulation, or that they targeted poorly and we just didn't see the effects of their actions. Still, it's odd to say the least to go two DPs into a game and have the only night actions from scum be their NKs.
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@Cerulean
Thanks for posting a breakdown of the existing roles and role claims. A couple of things that stick out to me from the list:
Cerulean and I are the only ones with roles that are written distinctly differently from the norm. It's part of the reason I was so hesitant to lynch him back in DP1. Cerulean claimed the role early enough and with such a substantial deviation from the normal Oracle that it stood out to me as unlikely that he would be scum. I still believe that it's unlikely Cerulean is scum, though it's not a strong reason to townread him.
There are no roles that protect others. The Prideful Townie offers some protection, but it's weak at best given that it required two separate people to target Casey in order for them to negate those actions. I don't really buy that as the sole protective role in play, so while Bulletproof is most definitely an outlier in terms of how normal it appears compared to the rest, it also seems necessary to balance this game. Maybe that's just me getting into the weeds on setup, but I just don't buy town having this much in the way of handicaps without some more positive utility.
That leaves Austin and ADOL, so suffice it to say that they're my scumreads right now. Frankly, I don't know why ADOL was being dismissed as plausible scum before this beyond just the basic assumption that Pie wouldn't pick a noob to be scum. And with this role claim... yeah, I'm sussing him. He's certainly not the only one claiming a role that we haven't seen before, I just don't buy it for other reasons. First, it's pure negative utility. With two already flipped negative utility roles (Hammerer and, given the Vanillaizing, Prober), I just don't buy that town has another role that has the sole function of giving scum info if they NK him. Second, it seems tailor made to look just similar enough to Cerulean's role to make the two seem built to balance each other. Note that there's no other claimed roles that function in that way - it's not unusual for town and scum to have roles that counter one another, but two roles that bear this much similarity on town just strikes me as odd. I was never all that clear on why he was so certain about WyIted throughout much of the DP, either.
Austin's trickier. Like ADOL, just being on the lynch early and pushing for it hard should draw some sus, as should his presence on the Cerulean wagon back in DP1. He's given decent reasoning for it both DPs, but since they've both looked like the only viable options both DPs for much of their runs, it comes off as opportunistic. I'll fully admit that my own decision to jump on each wagon at the end of the DP could be seen in a similar light. Beyond that, the 1X Motivator claim is perplexing me a bit. So far, the WyIted was the only one with an active X-shot role, and he had two shots. It strikes me as convenient that Austin has both such a limited use of his role and only claimed his role and target after it had been confirmed that Mharman didn't have an active role. That being said, I don't think he'd have reason to claim he delayed using it if this was a fake claim. That's putting me off of giving him a solid scumread.
That being said, all this is more focused on role claims than I'd like, and I'm aiming to read back through the DPs to flesh out some behavioral reads. I also don't know much about how well these characters correlate to their roles, but it sounds like it might be a bit of a mixed bag. I'll leave that analysis to the people who know the books well.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
It's that exactly.Also I didn't and can't do anything in nightphase so that copy pasted column header was wrong. I voted for Wylted to be lynched and that's all I've done but talk.
I'd like to know the justification for this as well.
Anyone else find it weird just how many town roles have negative utility? Earth was the Hammerer, WyIted Vanillaized town members he investigated, and now we've got a role that passively reveals a town role should ADOL be NK'd.
While we're at it, this role bears a striking resemblance to Cerulean's modified Oracle, which he claims also activates on death and reveals the role of a player he targeted. It's randomized and, if the link is correct, can only hit town, but otherwise it's just a purely negative utility version of Cerulean's role.
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I apologize for my absence today, I’m just slammed with work for pretty much the entirety of it. I’ll be active later.
I’d like to know what a Singer is as well. I’ve seen descriptions of the role, but it’s new to me.
I’d like to know what a Singer is as well. I’ve seen descriptions of the role, but it’s new to me.
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Alright, I think I'll start this off basic and go for just genre interests. This won't be the general "fantasy, sci-fi, mystery, etc.", but some more specific genres.
Noir: 91 Days (2016)
At a brief 12 episodes with a single episode OVA, this one's a quick watch. It's a revenge mob story and one that really revels in its time period (in the 30's during prohibition in the US) while taking you on some dramatic twists and turns. There's no supernatural elements and the story is told chronologically, so unlike Baccano!, I found myself getting really into this story as it sent me hurtling down numerous twists and turns.
Psychological Thriller: Perfect Blue (1997)
More of a classic pick here. This movie is a trip, and while other anime have portrayed the life of idols very well, this one might have done the best job making the experience horrifying. The animation still holds up, it's creepy and eerie in all the right ways, and it caught me off guard multiple times.
Heist/Caper: Great Pretender (2020)
I was tempted to put Lupin III in this spot, but it's hard to know where to onboard someone for that series. Great Pretender, by contrast, is a much more recent series with a set of characters who mesh together pretty poorly, but that's part of the point. As with the Oceans series, I was always fascinated to see their plots play out and there's some pretty exceptional character development to boot.
Western: Outlaw Star (1998)
There are more obvious choices for this slot like Trigun and Cowboy Bebop, which are both excellent in their own right, but this one needs a shout out. Outlaw Star is just a joy to watch with a lovable band of misfits flying through space on a ship with arms for some reason. The lead fires magical bullets from his gun and their enemies are often straight up wizards. This weird mix of sci-fi and fantasy hooked me back when it aired on Toonami and it's still one of my favorites.
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@Lunatic
The only problem I have with this is her magic being "nothing to write home about". She is literally a witch with extraordinary powers, and is one of the only ones that can resist Elva's mental abilities, as well as she had the ability to essentially stop time killing a large group of Helgrind worshippers in a second. She's also the only person whose as old if not older than Galbatorix on the planet, without the use of Eldanari (dragon hearts). She easily outclassed both Arya and Eragon in mental battle training exercises. To say her magic isn't anything to write home about means that I'd have to buy that either pie or whiteflame didn't do a ton of research on this character.
I'm paraphrasing to the best of my ability, but the gist of it is that her powers aren't as visually stand-out as others. The words used are not as "flashy" or "grand," hence nothing to write home about.
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Felt bad not including Cerulean's targets.
Character Role NP1 NP2
Cerulean Elva Oracle (weak) Picked ADOL Picked Mhar
Luna Eragon Arsonist Primed WyIted N/A (Vanilla)
Mharman Nasuada Bulletproof N/A N/A
Whiteflame Angela Voodoo Lady Picked Luna (failed) Picked Luna (failed)
Austin ??? ???
ADOL Arya ???
Dead
Casey Murtagh Prideful Townie
WyIted Galbatorix 2X Prober Vanillaized Luna/Cop Inno
Earth Roran Hammerer
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Character Role NP1 NP2
Cerulean Elva Oracle (weak) N/A N/A
Luna Eragon Arsonist Primed WyIted N/A (Vanilla)
Mharman Nasuada Bulletproof N/A N/A
Whiteflame Angela Voodoo Lady Picked Luna (failed) Picked Luna (failed)
Austin ??? ???
ADOL Arya ???
Dead
Casey Murtagh Prideful Townie
WyIted Galbatorix 2X Prober Vanillaized Luna/Cop Inno
Earth Roran Hammerer
Alright, I'm exhausted due to getting somewhere on the order of 3 hours of sleep last night. Calling it here. Would prefer to fill in those gaps before we start any lynch wagons.
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@Lunatic
I completely forgot about that, but no, that was ADOL:
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@Mharman
No? I’m saying there’s a possibility you used it and claimed to be roleblocked. That doesn’t destroy your chances of it working.
No, but claiming it does. Stating outright that I have this role and that it is beneficial for me to get someone to say a specific word tells people who sus me that my doing so is dangerous. Telling you all that I've been RB'd makes any such efforts on my part in this DP sus to anyone who didn't sus me already. And, lastly, if someone dies during the DP, I'm the obvious cause of their death because I've outed my role. At absolute best, if I somehow convinced someone to say a very specific word without being called out for it or noticed, it would be a pyrrhic victory at best.
This is your best argument, and it’s on my mind. But the thing is, this can be something scum does when they really need to get some claim. I guess my biggest hang up here is the context of everything else I’ve been scumreading you for. I just don’t think I should suddenly clear you just because you may have a bit of a point in your favor.
If you're behaviorally sussing me, then so be it. I've said my peace about why I behaved the way that I have these last two DPs, and your read of those actions isn't going to change if I revisit them.
I just don't love these arguments for why I'd claim this role. If you believe I'd do this as scum because you already saw me as scummy and you think this is just trying to throw you off, then I really have no response. That would be a massive Hail Mary for me, but I guess it's the best argument I've seen you give so far for why I'd claim this.
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@Mharman
Hold on a sec, can’t you just you just claim your actual role, spin it as town, and pretend to be roleblocked for towncred when you weren’t rb’d at all? Who’s to say you didn’t actually use it on Lunatic, or someone else?
So you're thinking that I used my role on someone as scum, it failed to kill them because it's a 50-50 chance, then I just gave up on trying this DP and gave away the role claiming that it's town instead and I was RB'd, which also destroys any chance of my being able to use it this DP and get another coin flip? I guess that's possible, but it sounds extremely suboptimal to just nix the possibility of a day kill this DP as scum and potentially win the game right here with a mislynch.
I can see you doing this or just digging up the role to avoid being CC’d if you used up your role inquiries and didn’t like the options.
This seems more plausible, but if you're right that I did this, then I would have had time to find this obscure role, notice that it is most commonly used as a scum variant that kills its target, and claimed it anyway despite having asked Pie about two roles and characters that are in the game and having a total of two unclaimed people left. It would be pretty careless to draw the obvious heat I knew I was going to get by claiming this role just to avoid a rapidly dwindling possibility of being CC'd when I'd have role and character information in hand. I've made bad moves before as scum, but this might top them.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
@AustinL0926
I’ve got thoughts on who I think it is, but I’d like those claims first.
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@Mharman
I think we at least need a claim from ADOL and Austin before we go any further. I don’t blame you or anyone else for finding my claim sus, I just don’t know how you would think I’m actually the Voodoo Lady and I would fake being RB’d twice in a row rather than trying to kill my target with it. If you want to believe I as scum would seek out such an obscure scum role, modify it, and present it to you as though it were a town role, then I’m kind of flattered honestly. More work than I’ve ever done as scum for a fake claim.
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@Mharman
I am very skeptical of this claim
I don't blame you.
1. I just looked up this role, and that's not how it works (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Voodoo_Lady). Normally it's a mafia aligned role where there's a 50/50 shot the person who says the word dies. So unless Pie gave you some special version of the role (assuming you have it), this is complete BS. Even if you do have the role, I'm inclined to believe you were trying to get an extra kill on Lunatic, since you just said you were gonna try to bait him into saying it.
I'm aware of this. That's part of the reason I was so hesitant to claim it before I at least had a chance to confirm how it works, though with a coin-flip's chance of it just doing nothing, I can't say I was ever super confident. That being said, do you really think I'd go through the trouble of digging up an obscure, scum-only role just to modify it and present it to you for the purposes of explaining why I visited Lunatic? And why would I give away that this is how the role works, and claim to be RB'd, if my aim was to get Luna to say the word?
2. I'm not sure if this role counts as investigative, but it is a role that can be used to town confirm someone, at least with the version you claimed. Cerulean's claimed role outright confirms the role of someone upon his death, and Wylted's is pretty much just a cop. So I think either you or Cerulean is lying.
I've thought about this, though the investigative roles we have are all pretty weak, particularly since Cerulean was pushed to claim his. WyIted's has the Vanillaizing drawback, and mine had a 50-50 chance of failing even if it wasn't stopped, not to mention giving the information to scum if I target incorrectly. I don't think this is a given, and that's despite Cerulean being in my PoE.
3. This role is super out there, so you might not even have it at all.
Fair. It'd be a crazy reach for me, but not impossible.
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Left ADOL out of the last one.
Character Role NP1 NP2
Cerulean Elva Oracle (weak) N/A N/A
Luna Eragon Arsonist Primed WyIted N/A (Vanilla)
Mharman Nasuada Bulletproof N/A N/A
Whiteflame Angela Voodoo Lady Picked Luna (failed) Picked Luna (failed)
Austin ??? ???
ADOL ??? ???
Dead
Casey Murtagh Prideful Townie
WyIted Galbatorix 2X Prober Vanillaized Luna/Cop Inno
Earth Roran Hammerer
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@Cerulean
Just to be clear, Pie sends failure messages even to actions that don't typically expect feedback? Is that a usual hosting decision in his games? I was under the impression that WF was softing an investigative role, but that might be my mistake.
Probably would have been more sus of WyIted if I was an investigative role.
My experience with Pie is that he informs you of failed actions regardless of whether they are supposed to come with feedback. It'd be pretty frustrating if I wasn't told and spent much of the DP trying to get Luna to say a 15-letter word for no potential gain.
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Character Role NP1 NP2
Cerulean Elva Oracle (weak) N/A N/A
Luna Eragon Arsonist Primed WyIted N/A (Vanilla)
Mharman Nasuada Bulletproof N/A N/A
Whiteflame Angela Voodoo Lady Picked Luna (failed) Picked Luna (failed)
Austin ??? ???
Dead
Casey Murtagh Prideful Townie
WyIted Galbatorix 2X Prober Vanillaized Luna/Cop Inno
Earth Roran Hammerer
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@Lunatic
It is exactly as I stated: Voodoo Lady.
As for the justification, I believe this is as complete as I can get:
It says I have an uncanny ability to read into people and make predictions, that I tend to do it teasingly. I occupy a space somewhere in between the ordinary and magic sides of the world. My magic isn't anything to write home about, but I understand hidden aspects of the natural world very deeply and I'm involved in herbalism.
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