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Also, while we’re at it, I’ll point out that his risk was even lower because he’s a 2X shot. He could have chosen entirely wrong and still at least have been validated while still having a shot left. Moozer’s not so green at this point that he doesn’t understand that.
It also really doesn’t help that Moozer doesn’t mention when his target learns of their getting the invention. It’s a daytime role. If they get notified during the DP, he could do it anytime and have his role verified. Wanna bet they only get informed at night?
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@Moozer325
Yep, you’re right: I really don’t like that claim.
I’m a 2x daytime Inventor doctor. Each DP I chose someone and they get an invention which makes them a doctor in addition to their role for the night.
Generally speaking, a daytime role is always going to look sus. Making it a 2X daytime role makes it all the more so, and making it an “inventor doctor” more than that, since we’ve had a recent game where Owen was an Inventor Rolestopper and he’s known scum.
My justification is that in the movie, Joseph sent an angel down to earth to save whoever jimmy Stewart’s character was, so I can make other people the “angel” and they save people through their doctor.
More red flags. A Guardian Angel or Angel role makes more sense for this same justification. Specifically, the “Inventor” aspect isn’t even mentioned here, so it would make more sense as well if you were just the Doc.
The whole Daytime thing threw me off, and I forgot to use my ability last DP.
This in particular is a huge red flag. Failing to take the opportunity to prove your role with minimal risk (if scum got it, at worst, they could protect themselves from an unknown Vig) is bad enough, but you have a history of doing this… specifically with a fake claim that could have been verified but never was (a fake Vig claim if I recall correctly). It’s scummy as hell, especially coming from you.
That on top of the decision to claim without any pressure makes you a pretty easy choice for a lynch, so at least on that front, you’re right.
Unvote
VTL Moozer
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@WyIted
Moozer is consistently at the edges of my PoE, but he’s in there. That being said, don’t like that you’re pursuing someone without a fullclaim for death. Maybe start with the claim.
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@Cerulean
3 VT, 5 Town PRs? If real, then it does definitely make sense for a Goon to exist. Pie's and Bullish's (if Town) roles aren't super powerful either, so I can see this just being a low-power game all-around.
I recall at least one game where there were a surprising number of Vanillas, though Earth could very well be faking his claim. If they have a Goon, the justification is likely very similar.
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That makes 3 Vanilla atm. Would be shocked if scum didn't have a Goon to balance.
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@Earth
Alright. I'd say that's consistent enough with my justification.
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@Earth
I would like to know the justification as well, but I would also like verification that you were the 10 Commandments.
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Also, just to update:
Alive
Dead
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@WyIted
Well, considering Pie drove that lynch pretty hard and had not yet claimed, I'm not surprised he was the NK target.
Looks like we got rid of the Mafia JOAT, which should be a big deal given that it's likely scum have a Goon. He certainly had a lot of manipulation options, so it would have been a big problem if he'd stayed in the game. That means we'll have more reliable results (hopefully) from anyone who used them.
After work, I'll look back over the events of the last two DPs a little more, but suffice it to say that presence on the lynch does not mean people can be easily written off. Bullish is pretty firmly town based on his role and early push on the lynch. I still townread Banana, all the more so given Owen's dogged pursuit of her as a lynch target. They're easily my strongest townreads. My townleans (Luna, Cerulean and Earth) all were notably not on the lynch, but I'm not writing off Austin, WyIted or Moozer at this point, especially since the latter two joined the lynch late. WyIted, in particular, has had a weird route to explain why he susses Banana that I just don't understand. I could see him doing that as an effort to bolster Owen's attempts at a mislynch.
So that's where I'm going first. I want a fullclaim from WyIted.
VTL WyIted
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We're at roughly the 24 hour mark at this point, so people need to start staking out their positions on whom to lynch. I don't think we need another claim at this point, given that we already have 3 fullclaims and at least 2 character claims (minus obvious softclaims).
Owen is the more obvious choice from where I'm sitting. It does feel like he has less information than he should as Mafia, though as was discussed, this could just be trying to fit in behaviorally. He's not the only one to do that this game, but he is the only one to claim Miller late after two people claimed Vanilla. I don't like it and I can see a world in which his behaviors are meant to give him cover.
If people have a better lynch choice, make it clear. I'm seeing some people targeting Pie and I'd like a clear case as to why.
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@WyIted
Now I am not sure what to think but I was hoping somebody would tell me who thag was
It was Banana. Banana claimed Vanilla before I did. She's the only claimed Vanilla apart from me. She claimed here. So the person you were saying was in your town pile for being:
The other guy who claimed vanilla Have to reread to remember who it was but whiteflame is the stronger town read between the two
is Banana.
Oh I see yeah the vanilla claim seeming town to me and his comment seeming scummy and his response to very mild pressure also coming across as scummy. I guess some actions he does I perceive as scum tells and others as town tells. It should be noted I don't consider any of those tells to be near 100% reliable just maybe like 65% reliable and needs to be considered with other evidence
It should d be noted that vanilla is like the easiest fake scum claim since op said there was one or more vanilla in the game.
So the Vanilla claim is town, especially mine for some reason, but it's also "the easiest fake scum claim". Some comment of hers (it's hard to keep it straight when you keep using male pronouns for Banana), and her response to mild pressure is scummy... despite her having had a very similar response to pressure in previous games. I get that Banana's never been scum so she doesn't have a known scum tell, but you're all over the place with this analysis.
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@Lunatic
I am not sure what to think of owen, but I buy the vanilla claims
I could see a world in which we just have a very underpowered town and scum team. It's not unheard of, but it'd be weird that there is also a negative utility Miller with two Vanillas.
whiteflame (ironic considering I was joking about buddying whiteflame)
Figured. You're rarely that blatant.
As for the rest, I think we're mostly in agreement. WyIted and Austin are both solidly in my PoE, wavering on Pie and Moozer. Bullish seems basically confirmed town by his role usage (can't see scum getting that). Cerulean and Earth are both slight townleans for me.
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@WyIted
At this point, I'd much sooner VTL Owen than Banana. I'd like a response from WyIted (particularly to Cerulean's last post) before I hammer.
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@WyIted
The other guy who claimed vanilla Have to reread to remember who it was but whiteflame is the stronger town read between the two
That was Banana. You’re talking about Banana in town while sussing her in the same post.
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Anyway, it's been a long day and I'm winding down. I'll pick this back up tomorrow and we'll hammer out a lynch.
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@Earth
I think your theory that the mafia have a goon thrown in is legitimate, even if Owen is scum. If Owen truly is mafia, then I can see there being a cop. Maybe there is a Godfather, but I think it makes for a tucked up game if Town has 2(?) VTs and a Miller. Oh well.
Yeah, this game would have to have an exceptionally weak town for there to be 2 VTs and a Miller. Not sure what it says about the existence of a Cop if Owen is scum, but it would make sense to fake claim Miller if there was a Godfather.
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@ILikePie5
He’s trying to “fit in.” That’s why he tried too hard on the quote we both had a problem with.
There’s a lot wrong with his posts, I’m just not sure it’s what I’d expect to see from him as scum in a game where he’d have two partners. Not decided yet.
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See, this gives me pause. I don’t like his claim at all (a Miller and two Vanilla players, even if everyone else is a PR, is just absurd), but his tunnel on Banana and lack of information about her just doesn’t make sense for someone on a scum team.
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@Owen_T
The Miller claim is bad enough, but this…
I'd still like to know your genre.
Banana already full claimed. Why do you want to know her genre?
Before I get lynched can we please just look into banana.
She full claimed. What do you want us to look into?
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I promise I’ll come back to this after work. Suffice it to say that today’s been a frustrating mix of medical problems and work problems, so hopefully I can take a breather soon.
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@Lunatic
I also buy that there are multiple vanillas in the game and am unwilling to lynch any of the claimed vanillas at this point in time. Sucks that two had to out though and I wanna know why you wanted to push banana so hard for simply claiming vanilla. FOS pie.
I wasn't happy about it. It was a choice between claiming or dealing with a wagon on Banana that, frankly, would be relatively warranted with the information she gave us. That's why I'm not FOSing Pie as much.
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@Cerulean
Yes, I noticed from last game that Owen seems very easy to chop as both Town and Mafia- so I'm not fully on board with hammering him today, but I do think a full claim should be productive.I'm curious, does anyone have a meta read on how Owen behaves differently as Town vs. Mafia if he's always at least a little scummy?
I'll admit I have a hard time reading him, though I don't much like in this game how he's both been buddying me and sussing Banana. Not to mention he was online 2 hours ago and didn't post despite having Banana's claim fully in hand. Maybe that's not a differentiator between his play styles, but it stands out as odd.
I guess the question is whether Pie would try to ram through the exact same strategy- throwing all the less active low hanging fruit to the vote- as the strategy employed last game.(And, to be fair, Vanilla Town claims *are* a bit scary in that no actions are expected of them and they have a solid excuse for being alive late game, so I wouldn't 100% write off WF or Banana.)
I can't really read Pie based on that strategy myself, since it seems like something he's likely to do as scum or town. I do think he would have been better aware of the contents of the OP if he was scum.
And no, you shouldn't be writing off either Banana nor me. All Vanilla claims should be at least a little sus.
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@ILikePie5
I can see reason to get Owen’s claim at this point. His posts have been strange, particularly in response to me.
VTL Owen
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Also from the OP:
Unlike previous games of mine, this one is not Role Madness, meaning there is at least one Vanilla Townie. There may or may not be more than one VT.
I've held my tongue on how the game is likely balanced in order to avoid claiming, but given Banana's claim and my previously stated issues with lynching her, I'm fine putting this all out in the open at this point. I don't believe a game like this would have two VTs without a single Vanilla scum/Goon unless their PRs are just weak as hell.
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@ILikePie5
What makes you think they have 3 players?
This is an 11-player game with three mafia players.
From the OP dude.
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@ILikePie5
Why do you suspect there’s a goon?
I wasn’t sure initially if I’d be the sole Vanilla in the game. I suspect we have at least 2 Vanilla town in this game, which suggests a weak scum team given that they have 3 players. I’m inferring there is likely a Goon to balance.
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@ILikePie5
Alright, I’ll fullclaim.
I’m Some Like It Hot. I am also vanilla, and while I’m sure the justification is different (mine is basically nonexistent), this five word phrase is likely consistent:
“You have no special abilities”
Banana said:
I have no special abilities.
I could see a world in which Mafia would have been tipped off to that specific wording (probable, since I suspect Mafia have a Goon), but regardless, I buy that she’s Vanilla. I also just don’t think scum would fake claim Casablanca given its notoriety, since I at least would expect to be CC’d with that claim.
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@ILikePie5
Why do you buy it?
I would prefer not to explain, but if you’re still dogged in your pursuit of a lynch on Banana after reading this, I will.
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@iamanabanana
Hmm fine... I am casablanca and my role is a vanilla townie. I have no special abilities.
Seemed obvious from your quote that you were Casablanca. Surprised it’s vanilla, but I buy it.
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@Owen_T
I just find it odd that banana was a able to do nothing thus far but do a very vague soft claim. But you're obviously the more experienced player so I'll trust you with this one.
Like Pie, this post seems sus. You initially said you wanted her claim. You’ve since been made aware that she clearly softed it, but your response is that it’s “vague” (it isn’t), and that you trust… something I said? What do you trust?
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@ILikePie5
She did it very early. And she’s a noob. Other people are vets. It’s odd imo
Fair enough. I hadn’t checked back to see when she posted it relative to others. I’ll give it some thought, though I’ll probably join the pursuit of a claim if she’s intransigent.
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@ILikePie5
It’s actually interesting that in her third game she knows what soft claiming is and did it adequately as well. My paranoia makes me think she’s scum and her scum buddy told her to do that so there’s a redux of last game
Possibly, though she’s also not the only one this game to have softclaimed that way.
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@Earth
Gun to your head, who do you lynch?
If I had to pick, it’d be between WyIted and Austin. Don’t really have a preference yet, so flip a coin if I have to choose.
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@Owen_T
I'd like to get AnaBanana's genre or five year time frame.
I’m not looking for a claim from Banana. She softed her claim and I’m more than satisfied with that.
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@AustinL0926
Apologies for my absence. This week's been slammed at work and I just haven't had the time I'd like to post. I can see your point about WyIted, though I'll have to read back through his posts to see if I agree with you that there's something amiss. I've become averse myself to putting lots of pressure on inactives, since that's often led us down the path to a mislynch. That being said, I don't think this is the first time he's done this, whether as scum or town.
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@Bullish
damn when did whiteflame get so edgy? def a scum tell
I'm a known racist and Jewish supremacist. Deal.
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@Bullish
I am 12 Angry Men. I am governor, I can nullify a lynch (of someone who is not me) and skip the nightphase. This is because in the film, the jury returns not guilty based on the doubt of only 1 juror.
I'm a big fan of this movie. It's not the Governor (see the role on Mafia Universe), but it's obviously confirmable. Makes some sense based on the justification, at least more than mine.
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@Bullish
why are you scum?
Because it's been long enough since I last was and I'm overdue. As for why Cerulean's my scum buddy, come on: we have to keep the colors together.
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Alright then, looks like everyone is accounted for. I’ll check in again after dinner.
Unvote
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@Moozer325
I have no intention of lynching him at this stage, but I am going to do what I can to spur his activity. He’s just pure neutral right now.
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@Bullish
@Owen_T
Both of you should be involved at this point. We're over 19 hours into the DP. To facilitate that:
VTL Owen
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@Earth
Doesn't Wylted usually out his character and role?
Not always. GP is better known for that.
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- ILikePie5: 1950-1955 —> Action/Adventure
- Owen_T -
- Moozer325: 1940-1960 —> Holiday
- WyIted - 1953-1958 —> Thriller
- Lunatic - 1950-1955 —> Crime/Drama
- AustinL0926: 1930-1935 —> Crime
- whiteflame - 1955-1960 —> Comedy
- Bullish -
- Cerulean - Spartacus - ???
- Earth - 10 Commandments - ???
- iamanabanana - 1940-1950
I'm going to call it a night after this, just didn't want to end the DP without updating the claims. I'll say that I think it's a good idea to focus on character claims, since scum can ask about two role claims.
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@Cerulean
The original idea is to create conversation and use that as a jumping-off point, yes? And also to try and force scum to come up with a fake claim immediately. I don't think we've strayed too far from that.
I’m just noting the shift in attention as it’s gone on. Maybe it was organic, but I don’t think the original aim was to lead some to claim their characters that early without pressure. The original aim is still achievable, that much I get.
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Alright. Not much for me to say so far since this has largely been about claims and soft claims. In that respect, while I can see the value in getting these claims, it’s notable that three people have already decided to go a different route with theirs and at least two others have given soft claims that pretty blatantly give away theirs (no, I won’t point them out). Not saying we should change tactics, but it’s noteworthy that the result has strayed from the original idea without any substantial pressure on those who have claimed.
Maybe that has more to do with Austin’s point about the value of claiming given the lack of connection between roles and characters. I know mine isn’t an obvious connection. I guess Earth and Cerulean are functioning based on that as well, or otherwise trying to draw attention to themselves.
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I’ll come back later and give some thoughts. Need some downtime.
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I just got back from a baptism and subsequent party and I’ve been driving for five hours, but I’ll just get to this.
1955-1960, it’s a comedy
I haven’t seen this movie, but I’m familiar with it and it’s been on my list for a while now. Really should give it a watch.
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