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@JoeBob
I didn’t use it because I didn’t 100% scumread anyone at this point.
I didn't suspect you would use your Vig, but it was an opportunity to role confirm yourself that now leaves you open to suspicion. Not using it has its own consequences.
As for reads:Most people are a null since I couldn’t get much off of behavior as last DP was pretty dead.Moozer- I usually see more activity from him, which confused me when he was pretty inactive last DP. Slightly sussing himLuna- I explained above. He didn’t post much other than his character claim.Everyone else is a null read.
It's fine that you're basing your reads on behavior, but I'd like to hear something about the existing claims. So far, we have 3 claimed roles including yours among living players, and 5 claimed events also including yours. Given that the Great Fire is akin to the Mount Vesuvius eruption and that you claimed relatively early with a confirmable (if yet to be confirmed) role, I'd put you pretty solidly in my town pile.
As Pie was mentioning last DP, Luna and my events are similar if distant in time. If you believe he's scum, then it's likely that I am as well.
You're lightly sussing Moozer as well, despite him having given the only other role claim that could be CC'd and having given an event that seems relatively obvious as a pivotal moment in Roman history. That seems worth considering alongside his behavior.
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@JoeBob
I didn’t use my vigilante shot last night.
Alright, why? Also, what are your reads at this stage?
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@Lunatic
@Vader
@JoeBob
@Moozer325
@Owen_T
So, here's what I'd like to do at this point. To start, I'd like to get whatever result Moozer has. JoeBob, you will have to explain why you chose not to use your Vig, since there was only one NK.
Apart from that, we need full claims from Vader, Owen and Luna, in that order, as well as any actions and results you may have. Please wait your turn if you're not first on that list. I'm willing to claim myself as soon as we hear from the first two. Vader hasn't even specified his year, much less the event that occurred, and Owen hasn't provided said event.
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Alright, apparently a bunch of things to cover. I guess Pie died in the night as he anticipated, so at least we've got his reads to use. With that role, an active WyIted might actually have been useful, but I doubt he would have been the target of an y night actions since he was entirely absent.
Here's the updated list of claims:
Alive:
JoeBob - 64 AD - Great Fire of Rome - 1x Vigilante
Casey - 53 AD - Roman emperor Trajan born - Vanilla
Vader - 530 to 540 AD - ???
Owen_T - 27 BCE - ???
Lunatic - 476 AD - Fall of the Western Roman Empire - ???
Whiteflame - 1453 AD - Byzantine Empire conquered - ???
Moozer - 80 AD - Colosseum complete - Alignment Checker
Dead:
Wylted - 79 AD - Mount Vesuvius eruption - Diary Writer
ILikePie - 49 BCE - Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon - Motion Detector
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Believe so. Regardless of the flip, at least we got rid of the dead weight.
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Well, this is one of the lowest energy DPs we've had in a while. If we can't even get basic buy-in to lynch someone who literally hasn't posted with no other ideas on the table, then this is just getting sad, guys. And I can't even chalk this up to actively playing into scum's hands because so many people are just not doing anything. WyIted's just gone, Luna's almost entirely absent beyond his claim, Vader and Moozer have posted but been entirely absent from the discussion of voting, and JoeBob's saving his not decisive vote for the last second. Add into that Owen's decision to fall off the lynch in favor of nothing and we're basically just stuck in a holding pattern for no reason.
Oh well. Guess if we're here, I'll give my basic thoughts on the claims so far.
I still see Vader and Casey as the most sus in their claims, already explained why.
Owen's, Luna's and Pie's claims place them in the slight town pile for me. I don't like that Owen fell off the lynch for such weak reasons, but his trepidation doesn't read as scummy. Luna's absence just reads as null. Pie's probably the most town in this bunch just from a behavioral perspective, but that's a bit of a gutread based on my experience with him.
Moozer and JoeBob come off as town because of their claimed roles. JoeBob's Vig is obviously confirmable, and Moozer's Alignment Checker would have at least received some sus if someone could even pseudo-CC it.
That just leaves WyIted and there's nothing to say about WyIted. Here we are.
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@Owen_T
Seriously, there's not much time to discuss this and with Luna absent, your vote is required to get any lynch this DP. Unless you have a really good reason to no lynch this DP, there's no point in holding out on this.
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@Owen_T
I dont actually see the point in lynching Wylted, if he shows up, great, if he doesn't, it's just the same if he was dead
While I'm not particularly fond of doing it, mainly because it's just inherently lazy, I don't see a good reason to avoid doing it. He hasn't been online for 3 days, so we have no idea when he's coming back.
Also, no, it isn't like he's dead if he's just not here. He increases the number of living players in the game, potentially requiring more votes to get a lynch without contributing to one. He also serves as a blank spot in any kind of theme analysis we could do. We stand to gain information from his lynch, regardless of the flip, whereas we only remain in the dark about him going forward without it.
Finally, I'm not seeing an alternative from you right now. I don't see what we stand to gain by no lynching, so tell me what you'd like to do.
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@Casey_Risk
I think I have the same event in mind, and my thoughts are similar regarding Vader's claim. I understand sussing me for mine, though I would like to say in my defense that I was the first to soft claim, first to full claim, and first to actually mention the Roman Empire.
Point taken, but I'll note a couple of things.
First, Earth didn't respond to Pie's question about the existence of a fake claim in the game, which could account for all that.
Second, it's possible that Earth informed scum of the theme split. It wouldn't be a first, and could at least explain why you might mention the Roman Empire first. And really, that's the only thing that requires some explanation. Claiming early, especially with a more niche claim like this, isn't going to give you much credit from me unless it's paired with a role.
I'll also note that claiming Vanilla, especially that early, makes me sus you a little more since it can't be CC'd. It's also a weird justification that seems more like a shrug than anything else.
All this being said, you're not the person I'm chiefly sussing atm and I'm still thinking on your claim. I'd say Vader's more sus than you right now.
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@ILikePie5
You’re not wrong, figured my date was pretty obvious and yes, there’s a clear link between our dates. If people want to push one of us in a later DP, I think I’d be the better test since I’m the biggest outlier date-wise and mine represents the fall of an offshoot of the Roman Empire.
That being said, looking through the claims made to date, the ones that stand out as odd are Casey’s and Vader’s. I’ve found a possible event for the latter, but it’s notable that it’s much less well known than other claims already on the table. Casey’s claim regards the birth of an emperor, which is an unusual choice when all the other claims regarding emperors cover consequential moments during their rule.
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@Casey_Risk
I agree that it’s possible, but I’d still say it’s a risky claim with WyIted still in the game. Given my year and what occurred then, I’m doubtful that it’s a fake claim or that there’s a theme split that could explain his claim just being his actual character (there’s always the possibility that the theme split places some Roman events against others). Maybe he’s just taking a huge risk and paying dividends with me, but it means I won’t be seeking to lynch him this DP and I’m willing to wait on his role claim.
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@WyIted
Suffice it to say that I’m not willing to lynch Luna based on that claim. I really want to go over the existing claims when I get a chance, but absent any claims that stand out to me then, I’m willing to lynch WyIted. Being completely inactive as he’s been this entire DP is enough reason, so unless he hops on and posts a claim that changes my mind (and I do need a full claim at this point):
VTL WyIted
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Alright, less than 24 hours left and we're effectively absent two players. Don't like that.
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@Lunatic
Any particular reason that you haven't posted since early in the DP?
Unvote
VTL Luna
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Also, I suspect the theme split is somewhat obvious at this point. The more I read over the existing claims, the more I get why they’re bunched up like this, though I want to get the remaining decades in hand before proceeding with some public theme analysis.
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@Lunatic
@WyIted
@Owen_T
Sorry for my absence - long drive today and I’m a bit wiped from it.
I agree with the decision to get full claims from Casey, JoeBob and Moozer, given how close together their years are. I find it very strange that I’m the only one who has claimed a year after 1000 AD (so far) and that Pie has the only BCE claim. He’s a lot closer to other given claims, but we’re both outliers in that respect.
Luna, WyIted and Owen need to claim their decades. Don’t like that Luna was on an hour ago and didn’t post, or that Owen posted and didn’t claim.
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@Moozer325
Alright, looks like you share a century with Casey. Interesting.
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@Casey_Risk
Good to know. And yeah, not sure it’s going to be all that obvious. We’ll see I guess.
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@Casey_Risk
Guess we need something to move this along, though I’m not even sure there’s a theme split.
I’m from the 1400s.
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@Vader
Doing well. Spending much of my weekend at a Jewish overnight family camp. Been good so far. How are things by you?
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@Owen_T
Guess I don’t have to be too worried about keeping up with this DP since there’s so little activity. Might as well stimulate some.
VTL Owen
What are you up to today?
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I had mentioned that my availability would be low before Monday, so expect little of me over the next day or so. I’ll do what I can with what time I have.
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If this doesn’t fill up before Monday, shift me over to the /in pile.
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My availability this weekend is going to be spotty at best, so put me on backup for this one.
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Ended up with some rotten luck on that front, but we made the most of it. Imagine if we’d chosen That2 and JoeBob.
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@Casey_Risk
Random chance. We had a shot in the dark choice and went with you and Earth on a whim.
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@Owen_T
Wait what's the difference? I feel like such a noob mafia player right now.
MYLO is a 4-2 or 3-1 situation where town could still VTNL without losing the game.
LYLO is a 3-2 or 2-1 situation where the only choice is to lynch or lose.
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@Owen_T
I still want to respond to your questions from the end of the last DP because the reasons you were being sussed weren’t solely driven by us. Hated could be seen as an SOP claim, so not claiming back in DP1 didn’t help you. What also didn’t help was the later addendum that your role stopped at LYLO, especially when it turned out it stopped at MYLO, which is probably why Casey hammered you. Generally best to present all the details like that when you claim.
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@Vader
I was tempted to call you out more on your PM, though honestly, it wasn’t such a huge mistake that I felt we could capitalize on it. Hard to say how I would have approached it as town.
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GG. That one went down to the wire, tbh. JoeBob’s role could have turned it all around in the end, just bad luck on the target. Well played by Pie, had a blast as scum this game.
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Seems like there's pretty broad consensus on this one.
VTL Owen
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@ILikePie5
@Casey_Risk
I’m missing a lot apparently. My bad.
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@Casey_Risk
I honestly forgot about the Restless Spirit. I'm not sure if that means you're sussing Owen or you just did it to remind us that you're still around. Repeat the vote and unvote if it's the former.
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@That2User
Considering everyone sees you as town based on your being the sole claimed investigative role and your result aligning with Vader's being unable to act NP2, your opinion matters quite a bit for this DP, but I keep seeing you hop on and not post. Would really like to get your thoughts.
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@JoeBob
I find it weird that there is a vanilla(pie) and a scum that turns people into vanilla. Wouldn’t their just be one and not both?
I get this a bit, but if there is a scum Vanillizer in the game, then I can understand giving town some roles that effectively make its usage null for town (Vanillizing the Vanilla player) or even net positive (e.g. removing the Hated). It's possible that one of them is lying, I just don't think there's a discrepancy with their mutual existence in the game.
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@Vader
I could be misunderstanding this but once you are lynched you choose someone to play rock, paper, scissors to decide who dies. Here is the issue. The only way you bypass the negative is if you solely focus on you being lynched and you tell someone in the DP to pick something to confirm them. If they are scum and you are town, they aren't gonna listen. If you survive and the other guy dies, we would likely lose you in the NP because you are essentially town confirmed. And if you are scum, obviously the same logic applies. I am not sure if it's an SOP, but the fact that this was claimed in DP2 versus in DP1 is a bit suspicious to and especially after a lot of people claimed too.
I get your perspective on this, but it's not how I see it. Given that no one pressured me for a claim DP1, unless the role was definitely SOP, I think it would have looked like I was giving myself cover to dissuade a future lynch if I had just outright claimed that early. I would have preferred to claim before MYLO because then, at the very least, there would have been an opportunity to test my claim without potentially ending the game. It wouldn't have confirmed my affiliation, but at least it would have role confirmed me. That being said, I had no reason to believe we'd be at MYLO by DP2.
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@That2User
@JoeBob
Given that we have roughly a day and a half left in the DP, we have time to discuss this for a bit before we come down on a decision, so I'm not going to post a vote just yet. That being said, while I'm still between Owen and Pie (Vader made a good point about you, JoeBob, but like I said before, I don't think you would claim this and then give cover to unclaimed town members if you were scum), I still think it's more likely to be Owen.
That2, you suggested where you want to go with your vote, but I'd like a clearer idea of where you're leaning at the moment. You stepped back from the discussion after suggesting my lynch.
JoeBob, you should be part of this discussion and should at least have some reads on the table by now besides your scumread on Vader. It's been a while since you've responded to any of his posts, and I'd like in particular to know your thoughts on Owen.
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@That2User
I am tempted to say fuck it and vote whiteflame to potentially end this in a rock, paper, scissors duel. If wf is town and loses we lose, if wf is scum and wins we lose. If wf is scum and loses we survive, if wf is town and wins against scum we survive. If it's a tie and hits scum/town we're down to 3 town, 1 mafia. Mafia nks town leaving 2 town and 1 mafia DP3. It's a risky af play but wf is potentially mafia and his ability is an amazing deterrence in mylo.
I get this desire to just roll with it. Throwing caution to the wind and just seeing what happens would be entertaining, but while I think you've laid out the potential results pretty well, I don't think the odds are in our favor. Only two of those scenarios is positive for town (the one where I'm scum and lose the match and the one where I'm town and win the match). The remaining ones end the game or place us at LYLO at best, and that's assuming that I target scum and tie with them. If you're relying on my ability to pick out scum, then why not just vote for that target instead of relying on a chance that the game goes my way? I get that this is our last chance to do it without making a tie an auto-loss, but getting confirmation of my role isn't worth the chance that the game just ends due to one bad rock-paper-scissors throw.
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@Vader
My NP1 results just say I've been turned into a townie
Alright, so it's possible you were made vanilla before you could use your role. Got it.
To be clear, I meant confirmed IF I still had my RB. What I mean by that is there would have been some indication that OK, he's telling the truth about RB. I didn't think I'd confirmed if made vanilla, but if it was a town who converted me I thought they would've spoke up, they get converted to a vanilla town so it essentially 80% confirms them unless it's a big brain gambit
That was confusingly framed in your previous response and you seem to be breaking that into two points now. I'm not sure how you could confirm that you had the RB if you apparently got no confirmation that either of your uses of the role were successful. As for the latter point, I guess it was possible that Pie was a town Vanillizer since he hasn't claimed yet. In any case, I've become less convinced that you're scum with each of your responses, so I'm setting this aside for now.
JoeBob is in no way town confirmed at all. I think there should be some discussion because his role is pretty fishy and I am not as trustworthy with vigils. I think the role makes sense but the role gives me sus. There are also so many moments to choose from that it is not impossible to fake claim something in this game
I understand your perspective here since. If he's scum, he would know that you had been Vanillized and could sus you as a result. It does seem strange to me that, as scum, he'd give cover to both That2 and Pie with his fake claim despite the fact that neither had claimed by that point, but I can at least see why you might view his role as fishy.
That2's logic honestly works in the situation. I would mull it over but even if WF is scum, then you are playing as a gamble that you don't die...which now that I type that...
I'll admit, I would be interested to see how this would play out, but I don't think the risk is worth it. Going to give my thoughts in response to That2 regarding how this would play out.
He's my top read at the moment but I would strongly consider WF in the pile. I just feel like his Rock Paper Scissors role is way too much chance involved and if he is town, why didn't he SOP claim that, OK, if I'm lynched we both will die unless we pick the same thing. It also is such a neg town utility to it that I'm not sure why it wasn't SOP'd, especially if they pick the same and it hypothetically kills 2 town. I am frankily a bit sus
I'm not sure why you believe this role is an SOP claim. If your point is that it could result in the death of another townie, then Vig and Gladiator should be SOP roles as well, since they can result in the deaths of other town members. The only difference here is that mine's triggered on lynch and has a clear element of chance to it.
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@That2User
How does the rock, paper, scissor thing work? Is it live and viewed by Luna?
I've only ever "seen" it done once and it was between Pie and someone else (I think Savant), but it doesn't actually describe the specifics in my PM aside from (paraphrasing) "challenge anyone on your wagon to play rock-paper-scissors." If I recall correctly, that's done by submitting their choices to Luna and having him send out the results after both parties have submitted, but I'll check to be sure.
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@Vader
Not sure if it went through as it never specified in my PM. Also Owen is a hated townie so how can I confirm that even happened
Luna usually confirms whether an action was successful, so I thought he would have confirmed your night action if it was, regardless of whether your target could actually be RB'd. I'd still like to understand how you thought you'd be confirmed if you were made vanilla.
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@Owen_T
I'd like to hear more from Vader about what he meant when he said "If anyone wants to confirm this", but he pretty clearly messed up, the only question is whether this was a townie making the mistake of not checking his PM or scum finding out too late that two people had confirmed his fake claim was bogus. I think That2 and JoeBob are basically confirmed town since each of them independently claimed to use a role that contradicted Vader's claimed actions.
That leaves Owen, Pie, and me. If we weren't at MYLO, I'd be willing to roll the dice and role confirm myself while simultaneously taking one of them out, but we don't have that luxury at this point. It seems like a pretty weak town setup, given that we apparently have a Vanilla and a Hated with only one protective role (Earth's BG) and one investigative role (That2's Watcher) and only JoeBob's Conditional Vig adding a bit of potential swing to the mix. If I had to pick between Owen and Pie, I'd say that Owen claiming the Hated at this point when town cannot afford to policy lynch him stands out more, especially since we don't know whether his role persists into MYLO/LYLO.
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@Vader
Ok I am going to apologize because I did not see some of my role I was sent. I got turned into a vanilla townie in NP1. I was getting ready for my zoom class and just checked to see if DP was posted and it had. Didn't check my DMs. That's my fault but I got turned into a vanilla in the NP. If anyone wants to confirm this
I'm not sure how you want us to confirm this, but the timing - after two people had independently stated that you didn't RB or even visit JoeBob - stands out. Also, wouldn't that mean you still RB'd Owen during NP1? Figured RBs had precedence over other roles.
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@Vader
@That2User
"I watched Jane die." Making me the watcher, I fucked up thinking I watched who visited who, not who was visited. NP2 I watched whiteflame, NP3 I watched joebob, no one visited them.
Alright, figured we had to have an informational role in here somewhere. Considering that Vader claims to have visited JoeBob, though, something's definitely amiss. Any way you can explain this result, Vader?
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@Owen_T
RB'd?
Roleblocked. Usually, if someone is unable to use their role because of external interference (e.g. Vader's Compulsory Roleblock, which prevents people from using their role), then the mod informs the person whose role is blocked that they were unsuccessful, hence my question.
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@JoeBob
Then something's amiss here. Either Luna just didn't inform you that you had been RB'd, or the RB didn't happen. Can you confirm with Luna whether you would have been informed?
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@Vader
@JoeBob
NP2. I RB'd JoeBob. I chose him because he seems to always be the question mark variable in my games.
JoeBob, were you notified of this?
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@That2User
Haven't seen you post yet this DP, though it was late (at least on my end) when it started. Pie's already said he'll claim, so we're going to need your claim and night action (if any) as well.
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