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@WyIted
I guess that is between you and Barney than.
I guess if I don’t know about it, you’re not going to be imminently banned for it.
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@WyIted
I sincerely don’t know what you’re talking about.
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@JoeBob
Each night I have to investigate someone.
You say it’s not an investigator role, but this is literally how you described your role. Is that how it’s written verbatim?
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@Owen_T
Sorry today has been a little hectic for me. I promise I can be on this evening.
Alright.
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@Earth
Why are you unvoting when his report basically confirms either Joe or Wylted are lying?
I’m at dinner with family so I haven’t had the time to consider everything, but as I don’t believe we should end the DP with claims as they stand, I’m shifting my vote to get more information. I have no problem considering a lynch between the two of them by the end of the DP.
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@JoeBob
I am IRon Man.During the battle of New York in the avengers movie. A middle was coming to New York.iron man pulled the middle towards the portal, destroying the chitari ship.Because of me being committed to protecting earth. I am the Compulsive Intercepter. Each night I have to investigate someone. Assuming no interference, any action that player did will be redirected to me.and of course i win with town.
I’m going to Unvote for now, mainly because I think we can discuss this claim and also seek another, but… yeah, it’s an odd one. I thought I remembered Interceptor from somewhere, and I was correct, but it looks nothing like this. I explored it as a possible fake claim one game, but it’s pretty damn scummy, so I didn’t use it. This comes off entirely different. You say you “investigate someone” when it seems more like you visit them, and automatically redirect an action from them to yourself. We have a flipped Reflector already, so you’re effectively telling me there are two redirecting roles in the game and, for some reason, only yours is compulsory.
In any case, I’d like another claim from my PoE, so VTL Owen. You hopped on a while back to respond to me, said you’d be on later, and never came back despite having been online since then. What’s up with that? Looking for a claim.
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@JoeBob
Pie answered my question, though sadly it makes my role more useless than i thought
That should make this easier. Full claim.
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@WyIted
It's an investigative role of sorts, but assuming that that is your role and that we Earth knew he was visited, that does make it more likely that he's town. Can't discount the possibility that he's a Ninja or just didn't act (I could see scum trying to reduce attention on one of their own who was under suspicion), but I agree that he's in my town camp. This doesn't do much to confirm you since it only tells me that you visited him - I could see scum looking at his second post and believing that it was unlikely he visited anyone if he had a role that confirms visits on him - but since Tracker is a decently risky role to claim, I'd put you in my slight town pile.
Based on their softclaims (Savant's a little less soft), I'd say Luna and Savant are in my town pile as well. That leaves 3 people in PoE for me: Owen, JoeBob and Austin. I'd be willing to get claims from any of them at this point, and since we've already started a wagon on one (and his contribution so far has just been to bemoan the wagon in DP1), I'll join it. Looking for a full claim:
VTL JoeBob
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@WyIted
I thought you were piggy backing on whiteflames logic that nobody in town would visit earth a person who was almost lynched last DP and was indicating your gut was saying I visited him
Nice mischaracterization. Never said that or anything like that.
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@WyIted
All this speculation about why somebody visited a player who got to L1 and who was at L2 with just hours remaining in the dp is antitown or scummy.
See, it's lines like this that have me very on edge about you, and I've been trying to express why, and apparently I've been failing. So, let's break it down.
We are at the start of a DP2 where we have no role claims on the table. We've got a couple of softclaims, but no role claims, and frankly, we don't even have that many character claims, since only you and I have given ours. That latter issue is especially odd given that several people have already expressed that the link between their characters and roles aren't obvious and given that we know there is no theme split, so this many people being this cagey about their character claims comes off as weird to me.
But that's really besides the point. We don't need character claims, we need roles. The absence of role claims last DP led us all to collectively sit on our hands and do nothing in the end, and while that may have been fine for DP1, that's not something I'm willing to accept now that we've entered into DP2.
So when you hem and haw about "speculation about why somebody visited a player," I'm honestly perplexed. How do you want to gain insight into who to pressure and/or lynch this DP, because so far, all I've seen you talk about is how gaining role information on a confirmable action is bad. I understand that better now that I know the role is yours, but we already know you're a visiting role and you've breadcrumbed that you have some investigative element. I understand that we're townreading Earth at this stage, and since you're the only one who has claimed to visit him, we can likely confirm (assuming no one else claims to have visited him) that you did, indeed, visit Earth. That doesn't clear you, no matter what role you claim.
Even still, I'm not asking for your role. I'm asking why you chose Earth as a target for it, which doesn't necessarily give me any additional insight into your role of choice. Did you just regret Earth's lynch falling apart? Why didn't you target JoeBob, who also got to L2 towards the end of the DP with your vote on him? Why is my asking for insight into your mentality anti-town?
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@Savant
It's actually because I trusted you, there's a bit more to my role that I won't reveal just yet.
Don't expect you to do so. I believe I know why you chose me, but since I'm townreading you, I'll keep that unsaid for now.
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@WyIted
So despite your apparently not scumreading Earth based on the last DP, you chose to visit him anyway. Why?
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@Savant
Alright, that clarifies things. Any particular reason you selected me?
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@Savant
Sorry for not being as active. If whiteflame dies, I can confirm my role. However, based on what Luna said, I don't think we should be lynching whiteflame.
Interesting. So either your role was linked to me from the outset or you selected me at some point. Can you change targets?
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@WyIted
Let's think about this for a minute. Why would any role, scum or town visit a widely scum read player or at least one in somebody's scum pool?
This is part of what I don’t get from your responses. Earth was not “widely scumread.” Three people had light scumreads on him at the end of the DP: me, Casey and JoeBob. You had hopped off of his wagon before he claimed, as did Owen. Casey’s dead and their role isn’t something they would use on a person they’re scumreading. I didn’t visit him. JoeBob hasn’t said he visited Earth. So what’s your point? That someone else might have scumread him and decided to investigate?
You said a person not admitting to visiting him was scum. It sounds like trying to set up a mislynch. Why would I scum read somebody if they came out on dp3 and give a list of their actions and one was they investigated earth on dp 1 or they tracked him or they jailkept Jim hoping to block an NK or any of 100 different things?
That’s not what I said. I said if no one claims to have visited him, we can assume that whoever did was likely scum. There’s a difference, which is that I’m acknowledging a reason why no one would out this DP, but giving room for someone to out that they visited him later. I think it’s negative utility if a town member doesn’t corroborate this visit and comes out with that information later, since it means we lack important information to inform a lynch this DP, but if they had a good reason to withhold until next DP then we should take that into consideration.
If he can confirm the person visiting him is town, than I see no issue with the person outting, other than that, I don't see any motive for outting.
I sincerely don’t get this. So it’s better for town if the person who visited Earth is left entirely unknown? How? I’m not claiming that the visit confirmation would be affiliation confirmable, but we need information, and so far, the only people who have hinted at any night actions (or lack thereof) are Luna and me. That may be enough info for you, but it isn’t for me.
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@AustinL0926
@Savant
@Owen_T
Haven’t heard from the three of you yet, would like to get your thoughts on the above.
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@Lunatic
I have circumstancial evidence that I’d rather not reveal that hints to me Whiteflame could be town, though it’s not a bulletproof argument. It would still take quite a bit of selling to convince me he is scum.
Interesting. I have a couple of ideas of where this comes from, both of which lead me to townread you for it.
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@WyIted
I don't see any reason to out who did this. Presumably like half of us can visit and there was a train on earth last dp, so if Earth was visited there is a significant chance it was an investigative role.
So, let me see if I have this right: because there was a train on Earth last DP, a train that I will note largely fell apart due to a lack of information, your response this DP is to tell me that garnering said information is negative utility to a town that still has no new information? Really? I’m sincerely baffled by the logic here. Yes, there is risk to outing an informational role, but after a NL for DP1, which was done in large part because we accepted that more information was necessary before we commit to a lynch, it seems absolutely absurd that you would argue against informational roles providing information at this stage.
Now he is asking for a visiting role to out themselves, one highly likely to be investigative given the fact earth was one of the wagons last dp, while completely discounting g that Casey could have visited earth as well.
I’m not discounting it, though I highly doubt that Casey would have used a role that protects the target on the player they were scumreading for much of the last DP. Why do you think Casey would have targeted Earth? For that matter, why are you using that as an apparent excuse for not asking a basic question about who visited him and why? Not every visiting role is an informational one - Casey’s flip makes that abundantly clear - so why are you just assuming that any claim to have visited Earth is inherently negative utility?
We can assume whiteflame himself did not visit by asking others to claim if they visited, so it assumes he is operating under the assumption thay Earth must be, being honest in this situation.
Hey, you at least got one of the purposes of my post. I am, for the time being, assuming that Earth is telling the truth because I don’t think scum benefit much from pointing out that they were visited without any clear effect. Most of the roles I can think of that would register a visit without providing additional details are generally town-aligned as well. It’s not a solid townread, but it’s more than I can say for most players in this game right now.
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It’s late, I’m heading off for the night. Two thoughts.
One, Casey likely used their role during the last NP, but it wouldn’t have prevented the NK even if they used it on themselves. If someone was redirected to themselves during the NP, now is the time to state what you did and who you targeted.
Two, Earth says someone visited them. I don’t want to speculate on the role he used to determine that, but whoever did visit him should also out themselves at this point, otherwise we’ll assume scum did it.
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@Lunatic
ima move whiteflame into my town pile for now.
Any particular reason?
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@Best.Korea
Both good choices. If you end up liking those two, I can give you more along similar lines.
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@Best.Korea
Akiba Maid War
A Place Further than the Universe
Hinamatsuri
Scott Pilgrim Takes Off
Great Pretender
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@Casey_Risk
Yep, time’s up. Looks like we’ll have to rely on informational roles.
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@Casey_Risk
If I’m not good with lynching Earth with a lack of a claim, the same holds true with JoeBob. Makes me wish we’d pushed harder for a claim from one of them at least before this, but here we are.
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I'm going to keep my vote on Earth. With no additional information, I'd prefer a NL to just lynching Earth blind, but I'm still going to pursue that info.
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@Lunatic
I am not sure earth will be on in time to claim, so it seems like a no lynch is probably likely to happen. I am okay with it happening dp1 though, and I hope the town and myself can contribute dp2 towards scum hunting a bit better, hopefully with the aid of results. I will be more comfortable pursuing claims tomorrow after investigators have had a chance to score a result. Even town confirm results could be useful, but yeah as for random lynching earth/ joebob, I am not up for that assuming they don't get on to claim.
Fair. The lack of claims this DP also does have a silver lining: it means that scum will have to ask about those two roles without any role claims to inform them. I know when I was scum a couple of games back and had the entire DP to ask, I made an effort to wait until as late as possible to ask in order to glean what information I could.
I'm not super fond of a VTNL just because of the lack of info we'd garner from it, but I do feel that even a lynch on Earth is based on pretty weak reads atm. If we can't get a claim, then I can see the value in just waiting out results to get some information.
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@Lunatic
I am going to be thinking of whiteflame and his behavior tonight. Can't teally pin point anything but I think there could be something there.
That's fine. If you want to sus me, be my guest, though it sounds like that's not the focus of your attention for this DP. What are your thoughts on the options on the table?
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@WyIted
I am glad because I get this sick feeling in my stomach that scum will take advantage of Earth's general inactivity to get a lynch.
See, I get your explanation for why you see JoeBob's contributions as reasons to sus him, but if general inactivity on Earth's part is a problem, then it should be on JoeBob's as well. They've had an almost identical number of posts in this game so far, and inactivity has been an issue for many of us in this game. If inactivity is giving you pause, then it's a nonunique problem.
It's also a little odd to me that you see nothing sus about Earth. It's particularly strange coming from you, as you're usually the first to call out pressure that suddenly falls apart for no apparent reason. I also just generally don't get why you fell off that wagon in the first place. Was the promise of a full claim enough for you, and if so, why?
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@Earth
@Lunatic
@AustinL0926
@Savant
@Casey_Risk
We're running short on time, as we only have just north of 2 hours left. Given the lack of time remaining, we might get one full claim at this point, so I'm willing to pursue that from either Earth or JoeBob, though neither have been online recently. If we have to just get a lynch to get more information, so be it. People need to come online and make a decision at this point. In general, I don't love how the press on Earth was abandoned, the kind of pushback it's gotten since, combined with a willingness to claim that hasn't been exercised because two people hopped off his lynch, so I see more reason to pursue a lynch on him. I'll hammer JoeBob if that's the direction we're going, though as I've already said, I don't believe most of his behaviors stand out for him.
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@WyIted
Earth said they were okay with claiming so I think they would ve willing to claim if they come online before the DP is up
He said that, but there’s been a notable lack of attention to it since then. I personally found it strange that people were hopping off that wagon before he claimed at all, yourself included, and I found it doubly strange that everyone except Casey (who got sussed for calling attention to it), JoeBob and I seemed to move on from it the moment he had character claimed. The promise of a full claim doesn’t do much for me.
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@WyIted
Town members are typically okay leading lynch wagons, because they are not concerned with all of the attention being on them.
I generally agree, though JoeBob tends not to lead lynch wagons regardless of affiliation. If anything, I think he’d be more likely to cast aspersions without voting as scum.
Mafia members often agree with others to build a sense of camaraderie and trust.
Again, I’d put his post in the context of his normal behavior. He tends to be agreeable when he doesn’t know much about the characters involved, and I wouldn’t say his response to Austin stood out as odd to me.
JoeBob's contributions lack consistency and depth, which is a hallmark of Mafia behavior.
Better point, albeit one I could levy at a couple of other players this game.
I’m fine pursuing a lynch on him if we have no other options, though I’d like that full claim from Earth first. Absent that, since we’re short on time, we can pursue it next DP.
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@WyIted
We’re short on time and I think we need to coalesce around a lynch. Why did you VTL JoeBob?
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I’m still good with sitting on this wagon until I get a full claim. I don’t see Casey’s response as all that sus tbh, though maybe that’s just because I don’t think Casey would push on Earth just for failing to full claim with votes as they are as scum. That’s admittedly more of a gutread, but I’m headed off so I’m going to sleep on it.
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@Earth
I remember you being liking to coast by as scum and I pointed it out. I didn't realize you were on vacation, but you have to appreciate the irony you responded almost immediately.
To some extent that’s true, I do coast when given the opportunity. That being said, I don’t think I’ve coasted here. I don’t see you engaging with my efforts to get others involved and my claim. I haven’t gotten much response to the latter in general.
And yes, I do respond quickly when pinged.
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I’ve got some time now.
Earth has a habit of interjecting to present an errant thought, but this did feel a little strange, especially given that he didn’t respond to my claim or much of anything else that has happened so far. I also can’t puzzle out why he specifically found my lack of activity puzzling but no one else’s.
It’s a weak basis for doing this, but given that we have no others, VTL Earth
Given how little time there is left, I’m looking for a full claim at this point.
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@Earth
That’s what happens when I’m on vacation in Maine and spending time with friends. Why haven’t you been more active?
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@Savant
I think WyIted and whiteflame are probably town due to giving their characters early.
This is going to be one of the few instances where I’ll push back on a townread on me. Giving our characters early was more an effort to spur activity than anything else because, frankly, claiming characters isn’t likely to accomplish much. In the absence of a theme split, all it gives you is some hint as to our roles, and in my case at least, it’s a pretty vague hint.
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@WyIted
Fuck it. We’re not getting anywhere without it, and though I’m not fond of doing so in most cases, I don’t think it gives a lot of insight into my role. If that’s not the case for some of you, we can play this on a case-by-case basis, but I don’t think my keeping it to myself helps at all with this setup.
I’m Arataka Reigen from Mob Psycho 100. Yes, I chose an anime character.
That being said, I’m putting this back to you, WyIted. It’s your suggestion after all.
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@Lunatic
knowing pie, I think his priority would be to balance the game before trying to make characters fit exactly to their show character. Mine kind of makes sense as well, but part of it is a stretch too. I am guessing he already had this role in mind and thought my character maybe more accurately fit the role description than any of the other characters people submitted for example, but he planned on using the role nonetheless.
I think you're right that Pie would have focused on balancing roles first and foremost. That's part of the reason I don't think there's much point in narrowing down claims. Even if we had everyone character claim, there's just not a lot town would gain from that knowledge beyond assigning potential roles that aren't likely to be accurate anyway.
So, yes, I'd say this comes down to behavior for DP1 and that's going to be hard to read when all we're doing is slightly limiting character claims in a game that has no theme. No one has any incentive to fake their character claims.
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@Casey_Risk
I do want to see some actual motion here, so how about this? Give just a little bit of info about where your character comes from if they are fictional (if they are from literature, comics, TV, etc.), as well as their gender if you haven't given it already. We did basically the same thing in Villainous Villains. I'll start. My character is male and comes from Greek mythology.
An important thing to keep in mind here is that, even if we know everyone’s characters, we’re still going to be speculating pretty wildly about roles. Like for mine, I can see a connection, but it’s far from the first I would have suspected.
In any case, I’m fine doing this since we’re not making progress:
Male, TV and comics (the show is an adaptation of the written source material).
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Character Role
1. Casey Fic/Myth
2. Lunatic Fic/Fem
3. Austin Real Somewhat Confirmable
4. Whiteflame Fic/Male
5. Owen Real/“It”
6. JoeBob Fic/Male/Dead
7. Earth Fic/
8. Wylted Real/Dead
9. Savant Fic
Added my own sex, and yes, I’ll join the chauvinists, Luna.
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@Earth
I didn't really think about why I specified male. Perhaps I should have chosen meme characters like the Wave Existence from Xenogears so I could say I am a glowing green blob trapped in a battery w/e.
I mean, impossible genders aside, it was an interesting choice.
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@Owen_T
I didn't realize there was an order. How do we go through claims?
it depends on the game, but in this one, WyIted had said that Casey should claim next. It’s not a big deal here, but it can matter at times.
For future reference, is it bad to provide extra information or is it helpful?
Again, it depends. More info isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it can make you look like you’re trying to ingratiate yourself to town. I’m asking questions to gauge the reasons people chose to do this to get some behavioral reads, I’m obviously not scumreading all four of you for doing it.
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@Owen_T
Why can't dead or alive be ascribed to some fictional character?
Because it depends on the work of fiction. In some tellings of a given character, they’re alive, in others dead. Sometimes they’re dead, but have been brought back to life. The rules are… flexible.
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@Owen_T
I was following Wylted's lead,It's also just really weird, and narrowing it down to real or fictional wouldn't really get anywhere.
Yours seems more complicated, so it’s hard to narrow down precisely what you mean. Also, for future reference, if we’re doing popcorn claims like this, best to stick to the order as much as possible.
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@WyIted
My hopes were that others would follow my lead
So then, why dead or alive instead of some trait that could be easily ascribed to a fictional character as well?
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