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@WyIted
The way I saw it, there were better odds of us winning out in DP3 if Austin was still on the table than if Mharman was. We were pretty sure we could get someone to vote for Austin, a lot less sure of the vote on Mharman after people had had an NP to think it through. If not, we were pretty convinced we could get Austin to vote Savant. Also, we had a read that proved correct that Austin was the Miller (one of the roles we asked about before the game), so we were considering ways to use that to our advantage.
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Also, just glad we got to finish this out. Would've been a crying shame if the site had just stayed down. It's good to be on here again.
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Frankly, I'm shocked Austin wasn't lynched sooner. The dogpile on Owen was shockingly fast, and I even outright in the DP said something like that was likely to happen if we rushed to a lynch. And then you guys put Earth and me in the driver's seat for DP2, which surprised both of us. I guess Austin's lynch was kind of inevitable in DP3, but I still expected to have to fight for it.
In any case, had fun playing with Earth and I think the setup was solid from Casey and Pie, so props to them. Now I'm never going to be townread again without a solidly alignment confirmable role.
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Yep. It was one of the two of them, sorry I made the wrong call.
VTL Austin
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Not sure how long we have the site for, but it seems we're back online.
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As many of you have become aware, there is apparently an issue connecting with the site, particularly from mobile devices. I know not everyone is having this problem, but it does seem like it is affecting quite a few people, myself included. I'm able to bring up the site on my home and work computer, but not on my phone. Hopefully the problem will not persist, but I'm doing what I can to investigate it (no, I do not have access to the site's code and cannot do anything personally) and see what we can do about it (yes, I've reached out to Mike).
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Alright, I’m caught up and I’ll finally make a decision.
To be clear, I do not see a world in which WyIted is scum. Both he and Savant have made a good deal of hay over my decision while also actively sussing Austin, which makes me think they both believe I’m on a scum team with him. Given that I’ve said I’m leaning towards Mharman on my vote, I can at least understand why they think I’m siding with him, though as Luna points out, there are three other people already on that lynch wagon. I guess this just has more to do with the fact that I’m the final vote, and while there could be some manipulation going on for next DP here, I still at least have a solid townread from the CC back in DP1. I don’t think scum WyIted would have done that, even if his activity has been down this DP.
Anyway, dragged this out for long enough:
VTL Mharman
I still can’t get over the timing of his claim. So many things have to have lined up perfectly for Austin to be scum, including having asked about one of three members of the Fey family, having it confirmed that she’s not in the game, and then going all-in on that claim with a Day Dreamer softclaim that drew intense scrutiny to him. It’s not good play, but it comes off as a town gambit gone wrong using an existing character claim. By contrast, Mharman’s claim was opportunistically timed and specifically tailored to be townread at a point where he really needed it. We know he can’t have committed the NK and assuming there was a Redirect, we know he didn’t play a role in that. That’s it, though, and since we know there are two scum in the game, it only tells me he’s not one of the two. Thats not enough to shake my issues with him, hence my vote.
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I got a message from Luna saying that he couldn't connect to the site due to unknown issues on his way to work. I've waited online for a while now to see if he'd come on and while it looks like he has, he clearly hasn't been able to post anything yet. It's late and I have to call it a night, so I'm going to give him the time to post his thoughts. That means that I'll post my vote as soon as I get on and catch up tomorrow morning. Sorry to delay guys, but I'd feel like a dick doing it after he reached out to me about the problem.
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@WyIted
Appreciate your giving me your thoughts about it.
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@AustinL0926
Tagging you on this as well. There's a lot to cover, but there are specific points I'd like to see addressed regarding your claim.
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@Mharman
I agree with a lot of this, mainly because it's based on behavioral reads that could easily swing either way. I don't agree with much of Austin's reads on you and Savant because, frankly, I still don't think you guys are a scum team and he seems to be resting his case on that. I can't say whether this is just a poorly conceived effort by Austin to sus you because he's desperate town or desperate scum.
I've already mentioned my reasons for seeing your claim as off, particularly as it relates to the timing you made it. It's actually similar to the reason Savant was pre-sussing me for claiming a protective role that never came: for someone who had the sole protective role in the game and sported the MC, two things that should have made you almost instantly townread upon claiming, you were extremely hesitant to claim without getting a claim from Luna first, someone whom you seemed to townread up to that point. I get that Luna regrets his decision to out his role and use thereof, but that came after a lot of touchy interactions early on that should have been opportunities for you to just clarify and have your role confirmed. That decision stands out to me, since I would have to assume that Austin asked about his character among the Feys and got confirmation that she wasn't in the game, whereas any questions you could have asked could have resulted in the same outcome given that I was the only unclaimed character and role at that point.
That being said, I agree that there's a lot that doesn't make sense with Austin's role claim. It's already been mentioned that it clashes with the theme and role claims so far, that the Justice flip seems to run counter to its existence in the game, and that the way he rolled it out makes no sense at all, going from the softclaimed Day Dreamer to just straight Dreamer, apparently with the intention of avoiding a town visit that might also be used to confirm his affiliation. The Day Dreamer gambit, in particular, has never sat right with me since it came to light.
So it's mainly a question of whether I buy your full claim based on confirmation that you visited yourself and the lack of another protective role or if I buy into Austin's admittedly confounding claim about his Dreamer role with no support. I'd like to give Austin a chance to respond to this block of text before I decide, but as I said before, I'll make a decision tonight regardless.
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@Savant
If Whiteflame hammers Mharman and Mharman is town, I'm down to lynch WF tomorrow.
So you're fine with everyone else on the lynch apart from the person who is clearly the most hesitant to pick a side and is still giving Mharman ample opportunity to defend himself? Sure, that tracks.
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@AustinL0926
@Savant
My ability was redirected from Luna to whiteflame.
Realizing I didn't think about this, but I had assumed that a Redirect would require targeting you - at least, that's how I've seen it before. Makes me think this is a townslip.
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@Mharman
@AustinL0926
@Savant
This is just a scumslip. He has no way of knowing that Mharman might have visited Luna.Savant's progression is incredibly fake. He considers an Earth + WF team, drops it AS SOON AS HE SEES THAT WYLTED CAN HELP LYNCH ME, then decides to go for me EVEN KNOWING that in a WF + Earth world, me and Mharman are practically chained mislynches. No town player considers a world in which neither of the main suspects are scum, and then votes one of them anyway.Perspective slip. How tf does it not help them? This only makes sense if he's thinking from the lens of "WF + Earth town."
@Austin I still have him in my PoE, but the first would be a weird scum slip since we don't even know if Luna was visited. I don't really get how he thinks Earth and I are a scum team, especially given that we were outright given the option to decide the lynch since everyone else had already voted. Not sure what's in it for us if we allow more time for consideration, but he's also scumread us before, so I'm not surprised he's returning to it. As for the chained mislynches, that much depends on whether we hit the right target this DP, but I see your point. Depending on who's scum, though, that can happen regardless.
I'd like to note that Earth and Whiteflame are not confirmed town... if you were hesitant to vote so that Austin could make his arguments, you should the same thing for me.Give me an hour or two I got this
@Mharman I wouldn't expect anyone to treat me as confirmed town, nor do I see Earth in that light. I was already hesitant to vote, so here we are. I'll wait.
That's true, but I think it still decreases the probability that Mharman is scum.
@Savant Point taken.
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@Savant
It wasn't just that one line, it seemed like you were focusing a lot on Austin's behavior. And that one line came immediately after you saying you leaned more toward suspecting Mharman, so I did assume it was a major reason for your decision.
Considering a lot of my view on Austin was based on his softclaim and actual role claim, I disagree with this, but yes behavior is a part of it. I’d say that’s an important factor to consider. As for that line, it’s part of my decision, but not all of it, and I made that blatantly clear.
This seems like you're starting with the conclusion that Mharman is sus. If his results fit with Luna's tracker, then he's suspicious (according to you). If they don't, then he's still suspicious. This is why I said Luna should have made Mharman claim first. Other than having the only claimed town protective role, I'm not sure what else Mharman could have done to convince you he was town.
I‘ve townread Mharman multiple times, including in my analysis. My point was that there was something he could have done: chosen to claim under pressure instead of requiring Luna to go first. We agree on that front. You townread him for matching Luna’s results, I’m not that confident.
Sry, I don't totally understand how redirect works. But yeah, the fact that he visited himself only makes me less suspicious of him.
So he didn’t match two actions we know scum took, therefore he’s likely town? I can see the logic, even if I don’t agree with the way you’re approaching it. A second scum could have committed both actions.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Right, and you said he’s trying to “get my goat” Do you have any idea what you’re doing as a moderator? Are you applying the COC or are you simply reacting to the people who report and complain the most? People like GrayParrot.
It’s fine if you disagree with my approach. It sounds like you honestly believe that WyIted is maliciously trying to dox you based on what he’s said so far. I’ve given a warning against any proceedings down that path. You can disagree with that as a means of enforcement, that’s fine.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Where are the names of the officers and moderators posted? It should be at the top of the Home page.
Hasn’t been updated in a hot minute (Vader, David and Speedrace are inactive), but it’s largely accurate:
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@IwantRooseveltagain
No, he wasn’t even talking to me, he was talking to another MAGA MORON, basically bragging about his intent.
He was talking about you, but you’re right, it wasn’t expressed to you.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
You guys need to get your act together. As moderators, you shouldn’t be doing any posting and you need to apply the COC accurately and without bias
Again, welcome to your opinion.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
He says he actively trying to doxx me. He should be banned for at least a month. This is way worse than calling dumb people dummies.
Throwing out numbers as though he’s somehow done an intensive deep dive into people meeting your description seems more like he’s trying to get your goat than that he’s actually done anything, especially given his follow-up. If you see it as something serious, then I guess we see how he posts differently because trolling is what WyIted is known for. I think this is in poor taste, but not ban-worthy.
This is proof you are biased and unfit to be a moderator.
You’re welcome to your opinion.
Also, Tidycraft, the lonely, Canadian girl is always violating the COC including here in the post 62 above. You do nothing because you’re useless and clueless.
When I get off work, I’ll take a look at that post.
The fact that Wytled is the “president” of Dart is an embarrassment. He’s a MAGA MORON
You know he stepped down, right?
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@Moozer325
I am the elected president of this site. There is no greater authority than me. I have decided to investigate your report and have found it to be baseless and consider this a warning as I will do everything in my authority as site president to punish you, should you continue to make false reportsThere is no way this should be allowed. He can't have authority over a doxing claim reported at him, right?
He’s trolling, dude.
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@Savant
I’m going to be caught up with work for the next hour or so, but I’ll respond to this.
I don't really get this. If Austin had a fake claim and knew Maya wasn't in the game, he has no choice but to push back because otherwise he gets lynched. Also, a dreamer role doesn't really fit the theme even if it fits that character. I'm also not sure Casey would put both Mia and Maya in the game because it's confusing, but who knows.
I get the feeling you framed this differently than you intended. Austin either claimed his actual character or fake claimed after asking whether Maya was in the game. In both cases, he’d try to prevent the lynch. That’s part of the reason I’m hesitant to lynch him. I can see your point that the Dreamer role and the theme of this game, but that seems like a modpsych/balancing argument as well.
WF relies on a lot of instinct here, which seems like it would be easy for him to lie about if he was scum. I wouldn't expect a player as calculated as whiteflame to base this much of his decision on a gut feeling, especially when Austin has made mistakes before as scum.
I gave a lot of calculated reasoning as to why both of them can look town or sus depending on the angle you’re using to view them. You pull one line out at the end that I used as a basis for distrusting my own read on Austin and then just assume I’m only being instinctual? Wtf dude?
This is an odd way of looking at it, because it seems mostly like a chicken-egg issue. Mharman's doctor role seems convenient because it fits Luna's results. Maybe it fits those results because Mharman is in fact a doctor.
I pointed out that Mharman’s timing of his claim is sus after pointing out that it does fit, maybe a little too neatly, with Luna’s results which were given just beforehand. What’s odd about that, exactly, especially when I said I would likely have bought the claim more if he had claimed before Luna?
Waiting to claim with a power role is just a smart move.
It generally is unless your actions can dictate whether you’re the target of a lynch, which he was at the time. Demanding that another PR out their results doesn’t strike me as a better move.
Also, if Mharman was scum, there's a >50% chance he would have visited me or JoeBob or Luna.
Not sure where you’re getting that. In that case, there’s a 50% chance he committed the NK and therefore would have visited JoeBob. Either he or his partner, if there was a Redirect, would have visited me and you. Why do you think he visited Luna?
Also, we have no other protective role claims. Maybe that's convenient, but it's not something Mharman can control. Phoenix is almost certainly in the game.
Not really engaging with my point about timing (not behavior), but I also agreed that both the Doc and Phoenix Wright make sense for the game.
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@Savant
I might be a coward, but I think Austin has clearly been acting weirder than Mharman. The fact that WF and Earth both want to go after the latter makes me think they want to get rid of a town power role. I can see where Luna is coming from, and Austin is in a desperate position...but Earth and WF seem way too opportunistic here.
I can’t speak to Earth, but I’ve actively sussed Austin this DP and given extensive reasoning as to why. If I wanted Mharman dead, I could’ve (and still could) hammer at any point, so I guess I’m opportunistic but also projecting uncertainty and not taking advantage of the obvious opportunity?
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@Savant
Wasn’t planning on hammering until we’d discussed it, so you don’t have to worry about a quick hammer from me.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
@Sidewalker
@WyIted
It's probably untrue but so far I have him narrowed to being one of 10 people and if this is true that makes him 1 of 3 potential people, and everything helps.Isn't Doxing against the rules here?Reported.
While that does seem to be a statement of intent to figure out who IwantRooseveltagain is, I don't think it rises to the level of actual doxing requiring intervention on our parts. WyIted throwing out numbers like that doesn't reveal anything about who he is. That being said, I'll say it anyway: any attempt to dox someone on this site is strictly against the rules, so no one should even be implying that they're working towards that outcome.
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@Earth
@Lunatic
@Mharman
@AustinL0926
@Savant
Forgot to tag everyone on the above.
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The way I see it, both cases are pretty fraught, but there is one I don't like more. I'll give my thoughts and wait to get some responses before I make my decision.
For Mharman, the main points in his favor are the Doctor and Phoenix Wright claims. The MC of the show is likely to be in the game and I think it's distinctly unlikely that Mharman as scum would ask about whether Phoenix Wright is in the game. It would be incredibly ballsy and pay off big time if he was told that Phoenix wasn't in the game, but it would also mean sacrificing an opportunity to ask about a bevy of other likely characters in this game for the off-chance that Casey just left him out of it. I could see Pie doing that, so if this game was just Pie's to manage, I'd be more willing to sus this claim. The Doctor role also sets him apart, since he's the only claimed protective role. I'm surprised no one has asked for my role all this time, though I've certainly said what it's not, and it is definitely not protective. I'm a bit less inclined after a night's sleep to think that there must necessarily be a protective role, but if there's only one, the Doc makes the most sense. Aside from these, I think his analysis at least has come off as very townie. Maybe it's just that he's providing these long analysis posts like I do, which admittedly have come after some delay at times (particularly on his claim), but I just don't think scum Mharman would open the door for his potential lynch just to write out a long post in his defense.
As for the problems with Mharman, most of those have already been mentioned: self-targeting when he was unlikely to be the NK target (I agree that there is likely a Lawyer in the game, which would also match that action, but that's both a bit of modpsych and WIFOM) and claiming Doc only after Luna had already opened the door for the claim (he explicitly said Doc could explain it in his own reveal post before Mharman posted his role and night action) in particular stand out. What also stands out is that he was the last (beyond me anyway) to reveal his role. He was second to last (again, before me) to reveal his character. His risk in claiming Phoenix Wright and the Doc was exceedingly low by that point. Just thinking back on the Mahabharata game, I had asked about a different character (who proved to be in the game) than the one I eventually claimed because I saw my opportunity to claim a more central character when everyone else already claimed theirs. So as far as risk goes, I don't think Mharman had much, and Savant at least was obviously prepared for me to CC his protective role and defend him anyway. So as far as risk goes and opportunism, I can see the case for Mharman.
For Austin, I've already detailed my reasoning elsewhere, but I'll summarize. There are a lot of Feys in the game, including at least one that we know is town and one (WyIted) that we all solidly townread. Considering the CC battle that ensued between WyIted and Austin early in DP1, either Austin asked about this specific character with the Dreamer role in mind for her (I don't think he'd be willing to push back that hard on WyIted's misclaim if he was just guessing she wasn't in the game), which would be incredibly lucky, or he actually just has Maya Fey as his character. I'm more inclined to believe the latter, especially as he was saying he actively townread WyIted in the middle of that. I think he's also had a lot of opportunities to use his claim to secure a lynch or at least exclude his scum partner from a lynch. He had the Day Dreamer gambit and his Dreamer role, and considering no one has said they visited him during NP1, he had the opportunity to claim its use and just didn't. Maybe he was just hesitant in case someone did claim to visit him and this was defensive play to prevent himself from being sussed, but I think he'd take the opportunity as scum.
On the other hand, Austin's attempts to defend himself have not looked very good. That might have more to do with his availability than what he's actually doing/trying to do, but sussing a team of Mharman and Savant doesn't make sense to me. I can't see these two as a feasible team based on their interactions in DP1. I can better understand why he susses Mharman specifically, but pushing for a "1v1" when he did was pretty baffling since this was coming off of the claim and a point where Mharman's claim made him a more concerning target and did so with little reasoning beyond a basic OMGUS. I also am still trying to wrap my head around the decision to softclaim Day Dreamer, only to be forced to give up that he's the Dreamer. I can see how that might have been calculated specifically to avoid getting visited by town night actions, and Austin said as much during DP1.
At this point, I'm leaning toward lynching Mharman. My gutread on Austin, like it has been since DP1, is that he's town in spite of all the weirdness with his claim then and even the OMGUS - honestly, I just don't think Austin would respond this way to being sussed. He's surprised me before, but he usually either has it together and is more careful than this or implodes (see: his abortive Miller claim in Pie's Recycled Roles game). This looks like neither. Mharman's claim comes as awfully convenient given the circumstances, and while I wish we could have seen it before Luna claimed, I do think the timing and nature of his claim outweighs my attempts to read into modpsych and balance.
Anyway, I've put off my lunch for long enough. I'll give it until the end of the workday for people to respond, and I'll make the call either by the end of the workday or by the end of the day if the discussion goes long.
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@Lunatic
Apologies for the lack of activity this morning. I'd like to type up my thoughts about the decision between Mharman and Austin, but I'll need to catch up a bit first. Should be able to detail my thoughts over lunch. We've got until tomorrow before the DP ends, so at least we're not running out of time, but I think we're close to a decision on this one.
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@Mharman
Glad to hear the storm didn't end up being a substantial concern for you. I moved to Tennessee a few years back and about a year after a devastating tornado touched down in the city we moved to, so it's something that always has me somewhat concerned.
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@Mharman
HOLD ON TORNADO WARNING AS IM TYPING THIS
Um... holy shit. Stay safe dude.
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It's late and I have to get up early to take my wife to the airport, so I'm going to call it and I'll engage with some of these variations on PoE tomorrow, hopefully after Austin has some free time to post. I have thoughts, but none of them are going to be coherent right now anyway.
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@Savant
I mean agreeing that POE is Austin, you, and Earth. Not just saying that you are in it. But maybe I should have been more clear.
Yeah, that's not how I interpreted that. And no, I don't agree with that. As I said before, you're in my PoE as well, though I think it's more likely to be Austin/Earth. Considering Luna still has both you and Mharman in his PoE, that view is not unique to me or the people in your PoE.
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@AustinL0926
@Savant
thoughts: i think savant makes the most sense as scum bc i rly can't believe they redirect the magistrate. absolute waste of a powerful rolestill believe mharman is scum for bad faith push on me. his mech makes no sense, he's been coasting off his doc claim which could easily be fake. setup spec is meaningless for a new mod btw, pie also helped moozer with his game and it was unbalanced as fuck
@Austin Considering that the Magistrate is made obvious by the mod and considering that most people are still sussing me as a result, I'd say it's not a waste of the role. Whether it was used by Savant for the purpose or Redirected by someone else, I'd say there's obvious utility to it.
Mharman has provided some pretty good reasoning against you, so I wouldn't call it "bad faith," especially since we were all wary of you after your "Day Dreamer" softclaim fell apart. I agree that Doctor isn't the most obvious role for Phoenix Wright, and given that it came so late, I was initially tempted to scumread it as well. But it's also the only protective role in the game, so yeah, I understand why he's wielding it.
I find it kind of telling that no one in the POE (WF, Austin, Earth) is willing to admit that they are the POE as of now.
@Savant I said I was in the PoE pool coming from the last DP in my second post in this DP, which was a response to you. My circumstances changed for the decidedly worse at the start of this DP with in that respect due to my being unlynchable, so yes, I'm still there. In this post, I responded to Luna saying that I'm in PoE and the obvious lynch next DP. How many times do you want me to say it?
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@Mharman
Points taken. I can see a route by which he would get there, though I think it'd be pretty crazy if he asked Casey about this specific member of the Fey family and two others are here as town. I did find his theory about you and Savant being a scum team pretty sus. In any case, I'm at least going to give him a chance to respond to all this before I make my decision since we've got time left in the DP and I have a problem with just lynching someone who is absent due to outside circumstances.
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@WyIted
If I had to pick now, though I do feel bad about it since he's at a chess tournament and has his attentions elsewhere, I would lynch Austin. There are factors both in his favor and against him, but if he's been playing more defensively and trying to look more townie after his Day Dreamer gambit, I think much of this tracks. I get sussing Mharman because he's painting Austin into a corner, but putting his vote on him and opting to "1v1 me buckaroo" against the only claimed protective role doesn't sit well with me, especially since he claims to be sussing Savant as well. I think his flip would also be very informative, since Earth seems largely dismissive of the reasons he's being sussed and Savant seems dead set on lynching Austin.
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@Mharman
@AustinL0926
@Savant
Scum is in Austin, WF, Earth. (Or Austin and WyIted, though that's unlikely.) Right now, WF and Earth should be sussing Austin like crazy. If they are town, they know 100% that Austin is scum.
@Savant I really don't get how WyIted factors into this since he's widely townread. As I've already said, Austin is a tricky call because I sat through that CC battle in real time and I just don't buy that scum would engage in that as he did. Maybe it's a gambit like his Day Dreamer was. I've seen people claim that scum was playing 4D chess before only to see the flip and have everyone be proven wrong. That's where my hesitance comes from. That being said, I'd sooner believe an Austin/Earth team than a Mharman/Earth team based chiefly on claims.
It’s only an impressive misdirect if it’s on Wylted’s part, given he was the one who got confused. All Austin had to do was defend his claim.Seriously how did we let ourselves believe he was doing some crazy gambit. No dreamer on earth is going to pull that crap; they’re gonna do what Joebob did and hang back, say the bare minimum until time runs low or they’re really confident on a read, and avoid claiming at all costs.
@Mharman The part that I don't understand is his hesitancy to use both the CC and the claim itself to get a mislynch. He could have scumread WyIted over the CC and gotten traction without sussing himself (it was WyIted's mistake after all), but didn't. He could have produced a Dreamer result since no one's claiming they visited him, but didn't. I agree completely that the Day Dreamer gambit was absurd and I don't blame anyone for sussing him over it. I had a solid townread on him up to that point, and that's no longer the case, but I'm still having trouble reconciling his actions with him being scum.
just realized it's Savant and Mharman. Savant magistrated whiteflame to make him look sus, Mharman then pretended to realize that this meant scum "must" have a redirector, which pushes suspicion onto me.They've also been pushing in parallel, Savant's progression makes very little sense from last phase, and conveniently they're both pushing for a POE that doesn't include them.
@Austin So this assumes that Savant is a scum Magistrate who Mharman has repeatedly sussed over the past DP (at some points getting pretty close to a lynch) yet they are on a scum team together. An early bus isn't out of the question, but considering that Savant claimed what he did well before he knew there was a Tracker in the game, this seems like riskier play than I would expect from either of them. I'd say it's more likely that Savant is scum than Mharman, even with the confirmation of the Magistrate (Mharman's having used something on himself helps his case that he's the Doc and the lack of another protective role helps his case more), but I don't see them as a likely team. For me, PoE is down to you, Earth and Savant.
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@Lunatic
@Mharman
@Savant
Alright, going to try to address everything I missed.
did Whiteflame claim roleblocked?
@Luna I did not.
Why the fvck would anyone redirect a magistrate expect for to try to make Whiteflame look scummy but then on the other hand that seems too obvious and almost does the opposite
@Luna I was already in PoE and my lynch is virtually guaranteed next DP. Obvious clearly works to draw attention, though I know that's WIFOM. I was actually planning on doing something similar in the last game as scum, but as you recall, it didn't work out due to that last NK failing.
However, I will full claim: Doctor.
@Mharman Given the absence of any other protective role and that he's known chiefly for being a defense attorney who, as you say, has saved numerous clients, the Doctor role makes sense. He's not the only prominent defense attorney in the games, with Ema Skye (Luna's claim) being another main character who is known for her work as a defense attorney. It's not the most obvious choice, but it does make some sense. I don't love the long delay to post it, but compliments to Mharman on a convincing long post detailing his claim.
In before WF claims a protective role to cause a mislynch.
@Savant I am not one of those, hence I buy Mharman's claim.
1. Joebob’s role is basically the same thing as what Austin claimed, except it works with doctors and other irrelevant things2. Doctor doesn’t work with Dreamer and I’m a dumbass for forgetting about how dreamers can be disturbed earlier3. His behavior still sucks now that I think about it. He literally posted something like “look at me! I have this role and the matching character is the deuteragonist! No way I could be scum!”, then got busted for lying, then invented a fake gambit to cover his ass and get town cred because town was wondering if he was gambiting anyway4. So there’s obviously a ninja. And a redirector. That doesn’t leave anyone left who could disturb Austin’s sleep. We know the redirector used their abilities, so the Ninja probably Nk’d JoeBob.
@Mharman I can see some point to this, though I think each of the arguments individually aren't that strong. #1 is modpsych, #2 is an interaction between roles that doesn't really tell me much, and #4 is an assumption (the Ninja) and an open question that suggests more actions on the part of scum. #3 is the main point I agree with, at least in part, because I do think the whole Day Dreamer gambit ended up making him look more sus and the lack of an action NP1 doesn't help his case. I still townread him behaviorally based on the previous DP - the whole CC back-and-forth with WyIted would have to have been an impressive misdirect.
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I’m busy atm hosting a game night, but I’ll catch up and post responses later.
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@Savant
I want to believe WF's claim, but when we played together and he fake claimed, he always tried to go for a character related to a character that was also in the game.
As for this, it’s mainly WIFOM, but I think it depends on how you think I’d use my questions. Scum in this game had to ask those questions before DP1 started, so I couldn’t have asked after you claimed, but I could have gotten lucky I guess.
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@Savant
Alternatively, since his character took the blame for someone else, maybe his role allowed him to redirect my mag ability from Luna onto himself
I’ll just straight up say that this isn’t the case. My role has nothing to do with the redirection of yours.
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@Mharman
Yeah, it’s lore. I never played or watched these specific games, but my PM says that I was accused of killing Metis Cykes and that I took the blame to protect Athena.
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@Savant
Behaviorally, I still see him as town based on all the CC issues from last DP.
Mechanically, he’s sus. Scum killed JoeBob, and clearly they Redirected from you to me. For Austin’s Dreamer to have failed, some member of town had to visit him, but no one has claimed to do so so far. That plus the Day Dreamer softclaim before that makes me think he could be lying about his role.
That being said, if this is a scum gambit on his part, it’s a weird one. He’d have every reason to fake a result unless he somehow knows was visited and had to cover for that.
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My character is Simon Blackquill. I softclaimed this last DP when I said that my character led me to townread Savant.
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I’m running around and trying to catch up on this. Give me a minute.
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@Savant
I used my ability on Luna. No idea why it got redirected to whiteflame.
I'm guessing the goal was to get a mislynch on Luna and/or sus me. I was already being sussed last DP, though, so I would've been in PoE anyway.
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I kind of get why Owen was lynched based on his claim anyway. The DP4 Innocent Child claim was pretty sus since it would have meant just trusting it going forward, especially coming off of his effectively claiming Vanilla, though his response to being sussed made me hesitate. I guess he would have been still been sussed in future DPs regardless, but like I was saying last DP, rushing to a lynch was bound to lead to a mislynch.
Also, why am I unlynchable? Pretty sure Savant said he was targeting Luna. Did he change his mind or did scum change his target?
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@Mharman
@Owen_T
Yeah, I agree. I think people (myself included) from the game might be tempted to speak to the specifics of an ongoing game if this is left open.
@Owen_T I think it’s great that you’re already thinking about the next game, and we can discuss this one once we reach the Endgame thread. I am going to have to make this Read-Only for now, though.
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