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I am Purah. Justification is kind of mid though. Because I age slowly, I am a bleeder.
Alright then. That is an odd claim. I know absolutely nothing about the character, so I'm going to look into her a bit.
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@Savant
I guess, but how do you wait without seeming suspicious? If someone claims to be one of the six long after everyone else has, that would get a lot of attention.I'm not saying it's not a possibility, I'm just not sure how they would do that.
Same way I did last game: looking behaviorally town and getting other people to softclaim first. Only reason I was able to claim Arjuna was because I waited, but the claim was solid enough (despite the poor role claim - that was on me) that others townread me anyway.
But all this is irrelevant at this point because it clearly didn't happen. Earth claimed the sixth before Austin or Luna had posted about it, so it's a non-issue. I think Earth took on a similar amount of risk as compared with BK.
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@Savant
Later on, if they had no way of knowing what roles were in the game, the scum would likely fear that the thematic imbalance was a strong possibility. They would therefore be reluctant to claim to be one of the 6. If seven people claimed to be one of the six, it's easy to find the scum.
I still don't really get it. What do you mean by "thematic imbalance"? How does that change depending on the time that they claim relative to others? There's always a risk that their inclusion among the six will raise the number to seven, regardless of when they claim. You'd have to assume that they were banking on there being only 5 of the 6 and softclaiming to gain a little bit of towncred, which I suppose is possible, but it would be safer for scum to wait and see that no one else claimed the sixth spot before claiming it themselves.
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@Savant
If (b) is the case, I think it's more likely scum would have claimed to be one of the six early on as opposed to later. That's unless they had some way of knowing what roles might be in the game.
Mind explaining this logic to me? I don't see it.
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So that’s Luna, Austin and Savant as the outliers. None of them can be one of the six unless they’re CCing. It’s possible they were barking up the wrong tree trying to limit scum like this, but atm, it seems plausible that scum is limited to that pool. I’d like to hear from all three about it (looks like Savant already responded).
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@Best.Korea
I can confirm that I am one of those 6 characters, and if 5 other players can confirm that they are one of 6, then we might have already won this.
Might as well check - at least from what I’ve seen, the characters aren’t always linked well to their roles anyway. I’m one of the 6. That makes 3 with Chris.
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@Earth
Alright, as it seems the DP has come to a standstill, I think it's time we start pushing for information. So I think it's time to narrow the targets.
When it comes to existing claims, we only have one: Casey_Risk's. He's claimed Granny. While it's possible that he just cribbed this from the previous setup (Moozer posted it here, and no, I didn't think Gimli was all that good of a fit, either), I currently buy the claim, mainly because of the character. I don't know much about Breath of the Wild, but I'm aware of 6 characters that are almost certainly in this game: Link, Zelda, and the four Champions, Daruk, Mipha, Revali and Urbosa. I believe all 6 are here, plus one unknown (though I have my theories as to who that is likely to be, I'll ). That leaves the villains, who are likely to be Gannondorf and either Talus (there are multiple forms of it in the game) or Master Kohga. I suspect scum will pick from the remaining pool of characters, and highly doubt that Moozer has given scum enough information to make Urbosa an easy fake claim.
So, that just leaves the rest. I'll have to re-read the DP for behavioral information. I've got some basic behavioral reads based on what I recall, but I've been up and down all day and would like to collect my thoughts before providing a full set of reads.
As for who to pursue for a claim, at this point, it's mainly a matter of wanting to get information out of people who are barely engaging. Luna, I suspect, will be on and active tonight when he usually is. If he isn't, I'm fine with seeking information from him. JoeBob hasn't been super active and his contributions so far aren't anything to write home about, so I'd consider getting a claim from him. But for now, the choice is obvious based purely on inactivity:
VTL Earth
Your first and only post in the DP so far was used to claim that you were a hero, which counts as participation, but little else. I'd like to, at minimum, get a character claim.
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@Moozer325
This is probably overkill, but seeing what happens last game, I’m gonna ask. There is no problem with me stating if the doctor gets notified of a heal right? Because I’m going to clarify unless that screws something up.
Not the best choice to say this openly in the DP instead of just asking someone outside the game by PM, since it virtually confirms the existence of this role in the game. Up to you how you want to handle it.
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@Casey_Risk
Good point, I'm Urbosa.
alright, setting aside my uncertainties about the role, the character makes me think you’re town. I don’t think it’s worth testing your role with the risk of losing someone in the gamble, at least not yet.
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@Casey_Risk
So, I don’t know why no one has done this yet, but the obvious question: who is your character? You’ve claimed your role, no point in keeping this hidden.
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Alright, just to make it clear, I do think the Granny claim makes sense as SOP. Casey was bound to have someone visit him, and that someone could very easily have been town. That being said, I’m less certain how to read that given that the Granny role was also in the previous setup. Hard to say if it was just reused or repurposed by scum.
Anyway, to answer the softclaim request, my character is a hero and, at least from what I’ve read about him, a pretty major character. His existence in the game suggests that certain other characters are present.
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Just checking in on this for now, going to be mowing my lawn shortly.
Most of my knowledge of the Legend of Zelda series is out of date (played a lot of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask back in the day), but I do know a bit about Breath of the Wild. Probably not enough to be a big help on theme analysis, but I'll do what I can. That being said, based on my character, I have at least some idea regarding those characters that are likeliest to be in this game. It's not as straightforward as LotR, I think it's both too preliminary to suggest any kind of softclaim, and I'd rather start discussing it as we start getting claims in any case.
Alright, off for now.
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@Lunatic
Am I the only one who actually liked RoP?
It was… fine. The mystery boxes really got to me over the series run, didn’t like that they were effectively there just to keep audience investment in seeing what was inside in place of developing certain characters. Also, pacing issues galore.
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@AustinL0926
Easily broken by massclaim. Each person claims their old char/role and their new char/role. Anyone who refuses to claim their new char/role or has a contradictory claim is guilty.
Point taken.
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@Best.Korea
I mean, I think the idea was to mix up the roles and characters. Could be wrong.
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I just came back to all this. Guess we're restarting then?
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@Best.Korea
Yeah... I don't think I'm going that far.
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@AustinL0926
@Casey_Risk
Cool, thanks for responding. I'll be interested to see how your playing style comes through from that other site. Haven't had much experience outside of this, personally.
Unvote
VTL Austin
How are things by you, Austin?
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@Savant
I remember saying something like this last game and getting lynched for it.
To be fair, it was more than just one line, but the difference is that that was an effort to identify the theme split (which it did - we both ended up having to fashion fake claims that put us on the right side of it), whereas this is just obvious. Heroes vs. villains is as basic as it gets.
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@Barney
Rings of Power is certainly a show that exists.
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@Best.Korea
I guess we can ask people to confirm if their character is a hero or a villain. They dont have to claim characters, just say if they are heroes or not.
I don’t think this is helpful. Realistically, no one’s going to say they’re a villain, since that is bound to put them on the shortlist for a lynch, regardless of affiliation. It might help us find characters like Gollum who could be the Miller, but they should be full claiming regardless.
But just for the sake of completeness, I’m a hero.
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Should be fun. I’m a Tolkien fan, though certainly not obsessive. I mainly know it through the movies, so I should be able to do some theme analysis this game. Don’t see anything in the OP that suggests a theme split - could be the obvious heroes vs. villains, so Sauron and Saruman. More than a few obvious heroes in this one as well, basically everyone in the Fellowship.
But I’m getting ahead of myself. Let’s get some activity. VTL Casey_Risk. Welcome to the forum mafia on DART! You mentioned previous experience with mafia. What was it? Also, what’s your experience with/knowledge of LotR?
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Was considering taking a break for a game, but have me down as a backup.
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Wait how did NP2 actions get resolved?JoeBob - Track MoozerVader - Victim JoeBobWhiteflame - RB JoeBob & NK VaderJoebob should've gotten a result because kills resolve last: i.e:-whiteflame's roleblock gets redirected to Vader-Joebob gets a result-Vader diesRight?
The Vader redirect would only have worked if he targeted me.
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@Lunatic
Whiteflame you did well and great character claim I just had a hard time with your role justification and role for obvious reasons
Tbh I was going a different direction before I saw that everyone had claimed. I figured Arjuna was a lock to be in the game, and when I noticed that no one had claimed him, I just went for the first role that made some sense without being obviously off. I’d initially planned on Sahadeva as Backup (that was actually before I saw your claim, so I lucked into choosing the right twin), but changed my mind in hopes that Arjuna would look better. Don’t think it would have made a ton of difference in the end.
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@ILikePie5
Thanks for the game dude, it was a good time. And yeah, wish I’d gone with Austin going through to the final DP in the end. Made call on who I thought I could convince and called it wrong. Also, it was a real coin flip whether we’d NK Earth or JoeBob in that first NP. Would’ve made things a lot easier if we’d hit right.
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@AustinL0926
Typo, meant Lunatic. Tbh I've never seen Luna so angry before as town (but I don't have much of a reference point anyway for his town games
Does seem like he might be dealing with something recently.
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@JoeBob
Though that manipulation that Lunatic was shitty, should be banned in future games.
Yeah, I don’t like it, either. It seems like it’s become more common in recent games.
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@AustinL0926
Wait was whiteflame actually scum lol? I thought it was Luna by the end
Heh, glad I convinced you in the end. Worked hard on that. Should’ve kept you alive instead, but thought you’d be harder to convince.
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@JoeBob
I had a feeling from the beginning you were a pretty chill guy
You’ve seen me in scum chat, you know how I am ;)
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@JoeBob
was that a good enough reason to not get mad?
I’m not mad (rarely am, tbh), appreciate that you took the time and considered carefully.
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@Lunatic
For what it’s worth, I hope the family reunion goes well. Been a while since I’ve been able to attend one of those, particularly since moving out to TN.
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@JoeBob
Vote Whiteflame already.
And he continues to try to rush the DP to make you quick hammer me. Take a minute. Read back through the DP, consider the previous DPs, and make a decision then. I’ll respect it either way as long as it’s informed.
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@JoeBob
After he repeatedly claimed that he was the only strong protective role in the game, including in this DP, it turns out that his role is weak. He effectively claims that he stop a single NK, only delay the result. I might understand if he used this excuse previous DPs to conceal his role, but he was still selling you on a role he didn’t have this DP.
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@Lunatic
Whiteflame stop saying I am refusing to give any information lol. I gave it as soon as he asked.
So you ignored that I called you out repeatedly for the lack of a full claim, only claimed later when JoeBob asked, and that means you haven’t been refusing to give this information? I don’t think that’s how that works.
There was no need to full claim prior because I essentially function the same as a doctor
Except… it’s not. You functionally ensure that your target bleeds out over the course of a DP instead of dying the night they’re targeted for an NK. You turn your target into Bleeders for a night. Not exactly the strong protective role you’ve been claiming. You’ve been saying that the main reason has been to prevent scum from knowing how to exploit your role, but you’ve also tried to sell your role as the sole truly protective role in the game, when it is anything but. Hell, you’ve been doing that in this DP when concealing it was no longer beneficial to town.
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@JoeBob
And note that, despite all that evidence, Luna still refuses to full claim (even though by now he cannot use it again) and has responded to scant little of what I’ve actually said. He’s clearly doing everything he can to avoid interacting over issues he perceives with his position and just keeps claiming that he’s “confirmed” by elements of the game that do not and cannot confirm him.
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@JoeBob
I honestly don’t know what more I can say at this point. I’ve given several reasons not to trust Luna’s supposed confirmations, including evidence that he has used other players to confirm him in a similar manner as scum just last game, and shown you ample reason why his behavior stands out as scummy. Again, he literally did to me last game what he’s doing to you here to shake the lynch.
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@Lunatic
@JoeBob
Are you confirmed by anyone? If so, who and how so?
The only way I could have confirmed my role was to have the NK hit scum, which would only have been possible with my role, or to have you track me. Luna's role has not been successfully demonstrated, either. Still waiting for that full claim... Otherwise, what you've seen as a basis for confirming Luna seems to be him using other players to increase his towncred in ways that can all be explained based on what we know.
And despite that "confirmation," he's still saying shit like this:
This should have been me choosing between you and Whiteflame not you choosing between me and Whiteflame.
JoeBob is confirmed. It's a choice between Luna and me. That's it.
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@Lunatic
@JoeBob
So Luna's first response is to threaten to "exile" himself from mafia if JoeBob votes against him. For all he says that I'm manipulating JoeBob, this is a pretty clear attempt to emotionally manipulate him. And, once again, it's akin to Luna's desperate behavior earlier this game and much of last game where he called me out for my gigantic ego. I remember it well because it was incredibly frustrating:
If you manage to pull this lynch off, I am gonna rub it in your face so fucking hard and proceed to never play with you again.
That was from DP2 where I was actively pursuing a lynch against him. Dude admitted he was going hard on me to shake the lynch afterward. He knows he's doing the same now. I didn't back down until there was no choice if we wanted a lynch. He thinks JoeBob will back down just because he appeals to his "noobiness/laziness." Who's being lazy here, exactly? The one who is laying out precisely how another player could come off as "confirmed" when in reality they were anything but, or the one who's threatening to exile himself from forum mafia if he doesn't get his way?
Luna repeatedly mentions that he is "confirmed," pointing to two pieces of evidence: the CC on Savant's Doc, and lynching Austin. I've already explained the latter - scum could very easily have asked Pie if a Super Saint was actually in this game - and the former is even easier to explain: Savant was already being scumread and the CC, which would be easy to craft (note he still hasn't given his full role claim), makes him look townie. It's the same reason he gave for why he thought Austin might bus Savant back in DP2, and if he believed that for someone who started that wagon, it most definitely applies to Luna as well.
Aside from that, I haven't seen any response to my point about his decision not to target Austin last night. He says Austin was the "obvious target" of the NK. He knew that Austin would die if he did nothing and that JoeBob would survive. As a claimed town protective role, he still made the decision to target JoeBob. Why? Because Austin announced that he should? Luna's basically straight up saying that he sheeped Austin's direction knowing that the target would be Austin himself. Why would he claim to know that Austin was even the "obvious target" in the first place if he's actually town? It's obvious to him because that's the target he chose.
With the Gambler's 1X Commuter and my VIP in play, town has protective roles. Luna isn't giving any reason why his still vague claim has to be in this game.
So, yeah, I'm going to VTL Luna. Maybe it's just that he's distracted going to this family reunion of his, but this is some weak ass defense.
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@Lunatic
@JoeBob
Well, it's been almost 3 hours since Luna posted in this DP. I did say I'd post in a few minutes, but I guess that wasn't a short enough timeframe to stay online and respond.
All I've seen from Luna so far in this DP is an attempt to sus me based on weak behavioral analysis. It's not scummy for me to point out that, given scum had an RB, they could have killed JoeBob any time they wanted as soon as they knew Luna's role. Luna's right that JoeBob was the announced target of his protection. He's wrong that the obvious play for scum was to just continually RB JoeBob. Scum had a means to kill him and didn't take the opportunity.
The fake surprise is amusing lol. Like I just pointed out, Austin was the obvious target if you didn’t expect me to deviate from joebob.
And this response in particular surprises me. So Luna knew that Austin was an obvious target. He knew that by announcing that JoeBob would be the target of his protective action, scum were likely to target Austin instead. Setting aside the fact that scum had more incentive to take out the claimed protective role (Luna) than someone who had already used their 1X Lynchproof (Austin), if Luna truly felt that it was this obvious, why not protect Austin instead? By this point, he must have assumed that JoeBob would just be RB'd anyway, so I don't get the logic.
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@JoeBob
Now that I think about it, we should have seen this coming: he did something similar last game, taking advantage of Pie using his role on Luna to make himself look townie, so much so that Pie ended up siding with him in the end. I remember how that went because, by then, I was sitting on the sidelines getting progressively more frustrated that Pie wasn't seeing everything he was doing to push Pie into believing he was town, along with the vaguely established Mathemetician fake claim going largely untouched. He pulled attention (whether for active sussing or just chastising them) to the less active players, noobs, and those he believed exhibited "big egos." Sound familiar?
In this game, I believed that the back-and-forth with Austin back in DP2 was genuine, at least much more so than the argument he had with me last game. In both games, though, he let his frustration boil over to try to push the lynch onto someone else, and this time, he even did it while actively saying that the target of that lynch was someone he believed was town. Beyond that, the only real difference with Luna's approach in this game is that he voted against Austin to convince him he was town instead of just accepting a role granted by another player (Pie). His strategy is virtually identical, though: use another player's role to make him seem as townie as possible.
And keeping you alive was a necessary gambit in that plan. Austin would have doubted his role claim if you had been NK'd, and then Luna would have been sussed this DP. Luna believed he already had you convinced he was town, so for him, killing Austin was necessary to secure a scum win.
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@Lunatic
@JoeBob
To start, I'm not going to respond to this effort to make this a me vs. JoeBob situation. I can't confirm my role without JoeBob investigating me. Someone stopped that investigation. JoeBob is clearly town, so the choice is obvious.
Given that we’re down to three and one of those three isalready town-confirmed by virtue of his role (JoeBob), scum is necessarilybetween Luna and me. That’s a given. Admittedly, I haven’t scumread Luna up tothis point. He was one of my strongest townreads, even when he was arguing withAustin, and Austin’s gambit seemingly town-confirmed him, so my attention wentelsewhere.
But here are the facts:
We can’t confirm a single thing Luna did. He claims hetargeted JoeBob the last two NPs, but since JoeBob was apparently never thetarget of the NK, so we only have his word on that. We cannot confirm his roleany more than we can confirm mine. Additionally, he hasn’t full-claimed hisrole up to this point, so he hasn’t been straight with town the entire game,using the uncertainty of his role and the earlier CC on Savant as a basis forbecoming one of the most townread players in this game. It’s the reason Itownread him initially.
And that lack of success with that role seems awfullyconvenient. I’m not surprised that he wanted to protect JoeBob, as he’s thesole investigative role, but over the last few DPs, his target was announced bysomeone else and he just went with it. That’s not what I’d expect town Luna todo, since he would know that scum would just pick a different target, wastinghis efforts.
As for why he was willing to lynch a claimed Super Saint, Ithink the answer is pretty obvious: he used Pie to confirm that there was noSuper Saint. Pie said that scum could ask him about two characters and tworoles to verify whether they were in the game. I assumed that scum would usethis to craft their fake claims, but they could just as easily have used it toconfirm the existence of claimed town roles. That also explains why he was sowilling to lynch someone he said he believed was town.
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@Lunatic
@JoeBob
Damn, Austin was the last person I expected to be NK'd. I'll organize my thoughts. Give me a few minutes.
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Assuming the game continues, of course. Should be over at this point.
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@AustinL0926
Feel free to hammer. Remember to waive your action tonight.
Will do.
VTL Moozer
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