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Long story short... yeah, this was a bit of a mess.
RM, honestly, if you hadn't been absolutely obsessed with pushing on Pie, I might have eventually come along with you to lynch him by the end of DP1. I scumread him in DP2, though I thought he was paired with either Earth or That2 and I made the call that it would be easier to tease that apart first. Clearly, I was misled in that regard (good on Pie for managing that), didn't at all expect the Recruiter role.
As for That2 and Earth... seriously, both of you seemed to be doing everything you could in DP2 to make yourselves look sus. Part of the reason why I didn't push hard on Pie was that both of you seemed to be doing as much as you possibly could to stand out. I kind of understand the desperation that you were exhibiting, That2, but that's not the response you should be exhibiting if you're trying to look townie. More frustrating by far for me was Earth. I kept asking you questions hoping that, eventually, you'd respond in a way that would at least clarify your thinking. I held off on VTLing you for a lot longer than I normally would have just to get something out of you, and when you responded with a post essentially giving up on defending yourself, that sealed it for me. That's not a townie response, and it was unusual even coming from you. Not sure why you think we would have all seen you as town after that performance. Defend your choices. Explain your reads. It would have helped a lot.
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@Stephen
A general insult ie - clown, stupid and idiot, is one thing but resorting to utter filth and smut is certainly another. imoI do hope this is the end of the matter.
There are degrees, yes, and that kind of insult is inherently very personal.
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@Shila
The picture of BrotherD. is more suggestive than Shila’s description of BrotherD. desperate intent. The fact the picture is still there removes any justification for deleting Shila’s description of it.
Now you're just trolling. The removal and the warning stand.
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@Shila
I'm honestly not sure what the picture you linked it to has to do with this. You made a jab at the person behind that picture, and as far as I know, there's nothing specifically wrong with the picture. If there is, please explain it.
You're not particularly new here, and by now, it should be clear that insults in general are off-limits. I don't regularly comb through forum posts looking for insults, so yes, if someone is insulting to you personally, that's a basis for reporting that post.
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@Shila
I’ve gone ahead and deleted the post in question. Shila, this will serve a formal warning against posting stuff like this. There won’t be another if it happens again.
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@Earth
The DP should have already ended, so I'll come back to this in what will probably be the endgame, but... seriously? I didn't buy that either you or That2 were town. It's seriously incredible the amount of red flags both of you raised. Pointing out what she did wrong doesn't suddenly make your play immaculate.
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@Earth
If you’re actually town, then this was just abysmal play dude.
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@Barney
@ILikePie5
Yeah, if this is Earth as town, then he is absolutely sabotaging us at this point.
@Barney, I don’t think we’ll get a good idea on that front, but it’s something to consider.
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@Earth
Grey copped an obvious doc claim. I would have copped someone like That2 or myself. It's not exactly sus, but it's frustrating to see cop be basically useless.
That had already been brought up several times, so I'm not sure why you felt it was necessary to draw attention back to it, especially as you don't see it as sus.
Also, wtf you saying? I have plenty of reason to sus That2. "Why am I still sussing her?" lmao.
Can you address literally anything I said beyond taking a single sentence out of context? You're the one who said that you expected a vanilla claim from her and sussed her for it. You also said that you thought there could have been multiple vanillas, and even said you thought there could be 3. There are two claimed vanillas left in this game and one confirmed. Why are you sussing her on behavior alone if her claim met your expectations for the number of vanillas in this game? And if the claim alone made you sus her in DP1, as you've now said multiple times, why did you think there could be 3 vanillas in this game?
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@Earth
So... you respond to Pie, but ignore everything I'm saying? Honestly dude, are you even trying at this point?
Honestly we should at least think about how Grey copped a doc claim and not like That2 or me.I disagree.Why?
I'll put this back on you: why do you think we should sus GP over his choice to Cop me instead of That2 or you? You're the one giving an indication that GP should at least not be eliminated by POE, so explain that. In what world is GP sus for this decision?
What do you mean you “expected” as much. Why couldn’t she have been a PR?Because I didn't expect town to have 500 PRs. It might have been something like a cop, doc and 3 vanillas or something.
I'm honestly not sure what you mean by this response. You didn't care for her claim, right? That means you didn't believe that there were 3 vanillas in the game. Yet, you expected that she would claim vanilla because... you thought scum would claim vanilla? Why? Seriously, walk me through your process here. Moreover, you said that you sussed her back in DP1 for that claim. Did you somehow know that Supa would flip vanilla because you're making it sound like you did. At that time, you should have only known that you were vanilla and that there was one vanilla claim out there. Why did you think there were likely to be 3 vanillas? And if you did think that, why would you have sussed the only other vanilla claim on the table? Hell, why are you still sussing her?
I thought you signed up for my strategy of not claiming character. Obviously you shouldn’t have full claimed.You probably would have lynched me anyways if I didn't full claim.
This is baffling as well. You didn't full claim until this DP. Pie is talking about DP1, where he's saying you shouldn't have character claimed at all, especially after you indicated agreement with his strategy to not claim. If you agreed with that strategy (which I agree, it appears you did), then the choice to out your conspiracy theory didn't make any sense. It's all the stranger that you chose to do that and not full claim, especially after your role became pertinent in DP1 with all the discussion surrounding vanillas, That2's claim, and your subsequent light sussing of her. Your decision didn't make sense regardless of which camp you were in. Explain it.
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@Earth
@That2User
Seriously, it's like you're both trying to look sus.
From That2, the "save me" post isn't necessarily scummy, but it's a weird thing to say and seems like an effort to buddy me a bit. In isolation, I might ignore it, but That2 has also been trying to use the fact that she didn't want me to claim as a basis for not sussing her. By that logic, since Pie was the person arguing against mass claiming for almost the entirety of DP1, I shouldn't be sussing him, yet I know that one of the two of you has to be scum. I'm still torn on whether your choice to claim was just sheeping RM in the moment because he demanded it or you acting opportunistically in response to his goading by claiming vanilla after he said that he could confirm the existence of at least one vanilla player.
I will say, though, that what stands out to me more is Earth. He has posted three times, once tagging me, since my last post yesterday. Every post is an attempt to draw attention away from himself instead of explaining his own behavior. I don't view That2's attempts to get Earth to explain his behavior, much of which was directly applicable to That2, as sheeping. Posts like this also stand out, since Earth is essentially saying that he doesn't feel he has to justify his read on That2 prior to the "save me" post and that he feels no need whatsoever to defend himself. Ending with "It will only waste time" is also BS. We've got nothing but time at the moment. We have no reason whatsoever to decide who to lynch early in this DP. The rest of us presumably agree that the choice is simple: That2 or Earth? Yet, Earth himself doesn't seem to recognize that he's one half of that consideration. I briefly looked back through his behaviors in other games when he was town and scum, respectively, and he tends to engage in deflection far more often as scum. He may not always give explanations for why he susses someone, but I can't recall a time where he did anything like this where he just doesn't vote because he doesn't believe there's enough support behind it. Never stopped him before, so why now?
I'm willing to consider changing my vote later, but for now, VTL Earth.
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@Barney
@ILikePie5
Yeah, I know you both have pointed out this post and I get similar vibes from it. The issue I have here is that both Earth and That2 have come off as pretty scummy in this DP. Earth has been evasive, several times just straight up deciding not to answer pertinent questions about his behavior (note as well that he has been online at least once since my last post and has not responded), and That2 has taken the exact opposite tack of being way too detailed and specific in her responses in a way that we've never seen her do before.
Seems pretty obvious at this stage that the vote is between the two of them, it's mainly just a matter of which we choose. We've got time to think this over and I want to take it, given that it's MYLO. It's possible that I'm just agonizing over which of two scum is the better lynch today, but I don't want to take any chances. I do find it odd that Earth put an early vote down on That2 if they are a scum team, though I am having trouble remembering if he has a history of bussing.
Anyway, I'll come back to this tomorrow.
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@Earth
I asked why you didn't choose to sus That2 at any point over the course of DP1. You didn't like her claim? That makes some sense, given that you've claimed vanilla. What makes a lot less sense is why you only decided to VTL her now, and why the entirety of your sussing of her in DP1 that I can find is this, a post where you barely indicated that you were interested in a VTL, wouldn't commit to it, and didn't explain why you felt that way. Nothing has changed in that reasoning between the last DP and this one, yet this is the first time you've explained any of your reasons for sussing her. Why did you wait, especially since you had information that was relevant to the decision that none of us could possibly have known? Hell, you started off this DP with a VTL on That2. Why didn't you explain your reasoning and out your role then instead of requiring that Pie push you for a role claim?
I'm having a hard time deciding whether all of this is scummy or just anti-town, but your cagey responses to my questions aren't helping your case.
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@Earth
And let’s be clear: I’m not buying the GP is scum argument, not this DP. Pointing out that he chose his target poorly won’t change that. This DP is almost certainly coming down to you or That2 getting lynched, and the longer you delay responding to my questions, the more I’m favoring you.
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@Earth
Really getting tired of you dodging my questions dude. At the very least, explain your decision to suss That2 now (seriously, you said you had a reason and then didn’t give it) and not back in DP1 where she did something that you say made you sus her.
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@ILikePie5
There’s a lot I’m still unpacking from her, so I’ll get my thoughts together after I get what I want from Earth.
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@Earth
Why not? We also have two protective roles and a cop. God only knows the shit mafia has. It wouldn't surprise me if they have something like a day kill or some shit. Basically everyone else is confirmed, and That2 is just hanging around. Call it lazy, but it is what it is.
That assumes the accuracy of Pie’s claim, but even if it is accurate, giving the Vanillaizer effectively a 50-50 chance of doing Jack squat is not a likely scenario. I’ll also point out that basic POE makes it impossible. At minimum, either you or Type2 are scum, if not both of you. Hell, you voted Type2 as scum, so I have no clue why you’re making this argument.
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@Earth
So… yeah, no way town is sporting 3 vanillas + a vanillaizer. Not going to happen. Considering Supa was vanilla and Barney is basically town confirmed, that leaves you and That2. I have trouble thinking that it’s both of you, especially as you have now both pointed at each other as your first picks for lynching. I find it very difficult to believe that each of you just chose to bus the other without any existing pressure.
That being said, I’m still tagging you because you’re still avoiding my question: why That2? I’ll add another couple of questions for you:
Where were you during the entirety of DP1 after That2 claimed vanilla? I didn’t see you put any pressure on her whatsoever despite the fact that you clearly said you had reservations about something she said there.
Also, for someone who has a vanilla claim, you were awfully silent during the entire exchange regarding vanillas and That2’s choice to claim in response to RM. Why didn’t you say anything? If you were being cagey about claiming, you would have called That2 out on her choice to claim because it literally did just as much harm as yours would have. If you weren’t actually cagey about it, why didn’t you full claim when you were put under pressure? You clearly didn’t feel that claiming your conspiracy was a problem, so why keep your vanilla claim secret?
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@ILikePie5
I actually disagree with this. It’s MYLO, so we should all be full claiming here.
When I saw you'd been Vanillaized, I changed my mind, though I also hadn't done out the math - not used to being at MYLO this early with only one death.
So yes, I agree that Earth should be full claiming.
I think an Earth, That2 team makes sense. If Earth claims Vanilla, Im practically confident that they have to be scum.Only inexperience would allow you to target Barney for an NK. If they had an RB, it would be even worse that they didn’t use it on you or me. This strategy just screams inexperience from Earth’s vote on That2 to That2’s vote on me
I agree that scum looks pretty inexperienced based on the actions taken so far. That2 does stand out for the reasons you listed, particularly the choice of claim, since RM straight up said beforehand that his role confirmed the existence of at least one vanilla player (not that it did, but that's what he claimed at the time). The timing looked suspicious to me.
That being said, not sure if I prefer That2 to Earth in this DP, mainly because I'm still not fully confident on you. I'd say that both Earth and That2 are looking more sus than you are (I'll admit, the only thing holding me back from calling them both scum is WIFOM thinking right now), though I'd like some time to look back through the previous DP before I vote. I'd also like to get their responses, particularly Earth's response to me and That2's to you. Depending on how they respond, they may make my decision for me.
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@ILikePie5
Idk if RM quit before or after he submitted his action, but I was vanillaized. So either of them targeted me sadly.
Not surprised. Doesn't speak to your affiliation, but he was dead set on it from the start, that was clear. Since it's no longer important, what was your role?
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Just some brief thoughts before I leave from work:
Barney is basically confirmed town to me at this stage. GP is close to that - copping me wasn't the smartest choice, nor was outing his result given that my Doc clearly was effective, but I don't think this is a scum move and I have a hard time believing that, behaviorally, he's been scummy.
That leaves That2, Earth and Pie. My strongest scumread on that group is Earth, given that he's been rather evasive in his responses to me and started a wagon on That2 with almost no reasoning. Still deciding who the likely scum partner is, but unless he starts being quite a bit clearer in his reasoning, Earth will be my VTL after I get home.
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@Earth
I will admit it's mostly PoE, but something struck me DP1.
What struck you? Not sure why you’re being vague about your reasoning here, especially since you go from saying this is POE to pointing out something Pie did as potentially sus.
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@Earth
Say one way or the other whether you can provide meaningful info resulting from anything you did during the NP. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
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@Earth
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@Earth
@ILikePie5
For the moment, I don't want either of you to claim your roles, but if you do have any pertinent information (anything worth adding, anyways), you should obviously present it. If you don't, please confirm that.
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@Greyparrot
At the moment, I'm still leaning town on you, but I do think it wasn't a particularly good choice to target someone who had all but claimed Doc during the first DP. Earth and That2 would have been far better choices given that, as far as we know (don't know Earth's role), neither of them can confirm their claims, whereas I could.
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@Barney
Quick recap:
Most of the DP was pointless back-and-forth between RM and Pie. Everyone has at least partially claimed up to this point, so I'll give you the breakdown:
Confirmed:
Supa - Sandy Hook Crisis Actors, role: vanilla
Claimed:
Pie - Deep State, role: ???
Whiteflame - Suppressed Cancer Cure, role: doc
That2 - Holocaust Denial, role: vanilla
Earth - Bush Caused 9/11, role: ???
Barney - Michelle Obama is Trans, role: vanillaizer
Greyparrot - Israeli Animal Espionage, role: cop
I'm stripping out the political leanings of each as I feel that that was a bit of a red herring. We've got all the claimed conspiracy theories now, and though I still think that was a big mistake, we might as well use that information and not be biased by previous theories.
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@Greyparrot
Well, I'm surprised that worked, figured I'd be the obvious target for any RBs during the last NP. It's possible that scum are actually pretty weak this game and may just not have access to an RB, especially given the roles that have already been claimed/confirmed show that town doesn't have a lot of PRs (one confirmed and one claimed vanilla) and even among those, there are net negative utility roles like Barney's Vanillaizer. It's also possible that they just focused on a different PR, expecting that to be more of a problem. Scum's choice, I guess.
Anyway, if it's at all unclear from my conspiracy theory, I'm the Doc. I used it on Barney during NP1. Mharman confirmed that the night action was carried out. Given that no one died, unless we have other protective roles in play (not asking anyone to out their roles at this stage) or scum simply decided not to do an NK for some unknown reason, I think we should assume that Barney was the target of the NK. In case anyone's wondering, I felt that RM's behavior in DP1, as well as his choice to rage quit, made him the most obvious townie. I figured scum wouldn't target me for an NK expecting that I would use the Doc on myself (note: I will not say if I can do that at this stage) and that the only claimed PR (with a role that presented a clear danger to scum) would likely be the target of the NK.
Regarding GP's claim:
Not entirely sure I buy that he's the Cop, though that explains why he didn't role claim during the last DP. The choice to target me is an odd one given that I was the obvious Doc after I claimed my conspiracy. It's also odd that GP decided to out himself as the Cop with an innocent result.
One thing that could help in understanding this: is the Cop limited use (don't tell me how limited if so) or unlimited?
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@That2User
From your perspective, maybe, though given that Pie had joined the chorus, I don’t think it would have been enough.
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@RationalMadman
that2 outed a theory that town easily had, if scum, who the hell would risk that fakeclaim as claim 3 out of 7?
Feels like we’ve said this a lot, but hey, what’s one more time?
Scum could have gotten fake claims. They would have every reason to put out their claims earlier to look more townie up front.
As for claiming that “town easily had” That2’s claim, I still don’t know where you’re getting that. All of your theme split ideas have looked bogus from the start.
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@That2User
I saw your message and I would’ve preferred that, but given that everyone else was pushing for it, I knew it would make the end of this DP even more frustrating if I held out. With virtually everyone else calling for me to claim, I had little choice.
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@Vader
Honestly, regardless of what affiliation he is, I agree. I still suspect he’s town, in which case it has no point beyond screwing us over beyond feeding his ego. At least as scum he got what he wanted, albeit at the cost of having a decent game.
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At this point, scum has all the info they need to control town. RM, you knew that some conspiracy claims would give away their roles, so yes, you outed roles here.
We’re reliant on the roles they don’t know and wildcards like RM’s vanillaizer role to do something meaningful, and that assumes that they target the right people. Given his approach so far, I sincerely doubt that RM will do anything that benefits town during NP1, which will probably be his only chance.
So yeah, might as well just roll those dice I guess. My vote’s still on Supa because I still feel that his behavior is the most sus. If we end in a VTNL, though, that’s fine by me at this stage. We’re boned anyway.
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@RationalMadman
I don’t really care at this point, dude. It’s blatantly obvious what I am, which is part of the reason why I was so opposed to getting everyone’s claims, but rather than taking the rather numerous hints I was giving to that effect, you kept pushing. If you want to claim that my response to Supa’s view that it’s more of an urban myth was scummy, go right ahead. I’m going to be dead weight the entire game now as it is.
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@Vader
This is more of an urban myth than a conspiracy theory
I’ve always seen it as a conspiracy theory, and a brief Google search seems to back that up.
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@RationalMadman
Dude, I’m so done with the theme split theory crafting bullshit. You wanted my claim? You got it. Are you willing to VTL me with the obvious implication of what my role is or not? Plain and simple.
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Lovely. Guess we’re doing this, might as well just put a big sign on me that says “here’s your RB target,” but fine:
I’m the secret cancer cure conspiracy.
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@That2User
Damn I'm tired, meant to tag you on that last message.
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As far as I'm concerned, this comes down to behaviorsWhat behavior? You noted RM being erratic, Supa being noncommittal and isolating what you say to sus you, what else have you noticed?
This is still a pretty accurate breakdown of my behavioral impressions of everyone so far, with perhaps some minor modifications that I'll have to think about when I've had some sleep.
(e.g. his going from pointing out that I'm behaviorally consistent with town to arguing that I'm a prime suspect who needs to full claim this DP)Yeah this makes 0 sense, saying you town in #258 then wanting you to claim, looks like RM really wants this theme split to be known
For him, it makes sense. This isn't unusual behavior for RM to exhibit, especially in DP1. That being said, it's not particularly helpful.
We shouldn't be basing any decisions at this point on theme splits.If you really feel it's necessary to out one of us, then put us at L-1.I don't like this, you don't think it's a good idea, yet you pushing to be L-1d? What do you want to do to avoid this outcome we shouldn't be doing? Why L-1? Why not L-2?
Like Pie, I think it's a good idea to get as much information out of flips as possible, so the VTNL doesn't really appeal to me. I'd prefer a lynch over a no lynch, despite the fact that we're functioning on limited information. As for L-1 or L-2, I was writing this in a hurry, but the bottom line is putting pressure on someone. We already have Supa at L-2 and he hasn't responded much to it, so L-1 may be necessary to get some traction.
Who do you think is scum besides Supa?
I don't have a solid scum team for him figured out, but I don't think it's Pie or RM. Current PoE favors Earth or you (GP started and has remained on Supa's wagon), though I haven't decided which is more likely yet.
It's possible RM and Pie = mafia team with their constant fight dominating this whole DP, I haven't seen Pie disengage and them being opposed in the opening makes RM look like anti-town town and Pie as town if you side with Pie, misting all of town to think both = town, though it is most likely at least one if not both = town given their mutual dedication to activity, especially RM, I fear this possibility tho
I won't write that off because, honestly, it's a plausible scum team and this is the tactic I'd expect them to take if they were working together. This looks a bit too natural for that to be true, but I haven't put it past them.
We need to deeply look into behaviors, in the most likely case mafia is sitting back benefitting by the RM vs. Pie conflict and flying undetected, I feel you townIf I believe you and me to be town with RM and Pie this leaves Supa, GP, and Earth by P0E, and I highly doubt GP and Earth will be on the same mafia team
Not really sure I'd write off a GP/Earth scum team, but if you do feel strongly about that, then GP should largely be eliminated by POE for you. He'd have to be hard bussing Supa for that to be a viable scum team, and while I don't put it past him, the way he's doing it here speaks more to his town behavior than his scum bussing.
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USERS
Lunatic
iLikePie5
Intelligence_06
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@Earth
@ILikePie5
@That2User
Alright, on my layover. I likely won't post again until later tonight, though depending on how exhausted I am, it may not be until tomorrow morning.
Frankly, I think RM's dichotomy here between me and Pie doesn't make sense. He's basing his decision entirely on information he doesn't have, since he cannot fathom the possibility that holding our claims in reserve is purposeful and positive for town. Nope, it's all scum because RM already knows the theme based on the limited information he currently has access to, and anyone who disagrees with his strategy is either anti-town or scum in his estimation, so just vote them out, right? It's all the stranger for him to argue that scum is benefitting from a delay at this point, since there are only three people who remain without claims, which means the chance of any of them being CC'd at this stage is minimal.
We shouldn't be basing any decisions at this point on theme splits. Period. RM himself, who seems so confident in his ability to determine what that split is, has presented two entirely distinct theme splits on this page alone. Even if he's right on the money with one of them, there's a more than decent probability that Mharman gave scum fake claims that would confound his theories. Hell, Mharman could have just told them straight up what the theme split is, giving them every opportunity to ensure that accurate theme split analysis places them as obvious town. Neither of these would be firsts.
As far as I'm concerned, this comes down to behaviors. RM has jumped back and forth from considering behaviors to being more focused on theme splits, often leaving behind any reasoning on the former to push the latter (e.g. his going from pointing out that I'm behaviorally consistent with town to arguing that I'm a prime suspect who needs to full claim this DP). I'd take the time to list my views again of behaviors that look suspect to me, but I really don't have much time before the next leg of my flight. I posted plenty in my reads and in response to That2.
At this point, it's up to the rest of you because RM is clearly dedicated at this point. If you really feel it's necessary to out one of us, then put us at L-1. I think that would be a mistake and I've been saying that for much of this game, but RM and Pie have been directing a lot of the discussion in this DP and there's been very little cohesiveness behind any mode of action here. Seriously, I'd rather people worked to out us than just allow this rambling to continue (though, again, I think that would be a mistake), especially given how close we are to the end of the DP. That being said, it's up to you all to make that decision. RM isn't going to change his mind at this stage and Supa may or may not, but each of you can.
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Anyway, about to take off, so I won’t be on for another 4 hours.
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@RationalMadman
I don’t think we will find the theme split this early, regardless of how many of us claim. Chances are, we won’t figure out the theme split at all until we lynch scum. Focusing so much on theme analysis has led us astray far more often than it has helped us, especially if scum has fake claims available to them.
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I’m flying across country today, so I’ll be short on time to respond. Did catch up with the DP, though.
In general, I’m not fond of these early stage efforts (using a limited number of claims) to suss out scum based on theme analysis, and RM has an extensive history of becoming fixated on a theme splits that don't pan out. I also agree with Pie that it is a bad idea to out as many people as possible in this DP. Frankly, I think we’ve already given scum more information than I’m comfortable with in regards to claims. It sounds as though RM at least is still fine with leaning on people for claims, which I don’t believe he has justified well even with his role.
For now at least, my reads remain the same. I’ll check in again after we land in Chicago.
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@That2User
- He has made a habit of posting reads with a demonstrable lack of commitment to them (e.g. “this can change”, “I may be overreacting”) as though he is giving himself an out to discard them and hop on a wagon later.
- His basis for sussing me was on an isolated post, ignoring the context of other posts I’d made.
- He claimed that his pressure led me to expand on my reasoning (I didn’t) when he didn’t put any pressure on me (no VTL), which led him to suss me further.
- When I later provided much more expansive reasoning to give my reads, he not only didn’t suss me further for providing that expansion, he reverted to a null read on me.
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This is all looking pretty scattershot. We have three VTLs on three different people and everyone appears to be using entirely different reasoning to get there.
I'm not sure why RM decided to unvote Pie and then re-vote him over an unproven theory regarding Islamic-related conspiracies. If this was really cause for caution because RM thought he had something here, he wouldn't have turned around and reinstated his vote less than 30 minutes later with no new information.
GP just seems to have a problem with the weak analysis coming from Supa, and while I agree that there may be something there, this isn't new for Supa. He did have some decent analysis of the vanillizer role, but I hesitate to move on anything that involves that much mod psych. The hedging I'm seeing in multiple posts from Supa where he gives himself easy outs from sussing me (most recently ending one of his posts with "But this could certainly change"... as though that's something we didn't already know), claims that my initial response to him where I didn't actually expand on any of my reasoning "was pressured" by what he said without a VTL, and then responds to my reads where I did expand on my thoughts as being "more null now" all stand out to me as odd behaviors for town.
As for the vote on Earth... That2's reasoning is entirely derived from a post that RM made about plausible scum pairs that never got much in the way of explanation. It's unclear from That2's post why she buys into that list, and especially as she questions the basis for having Earth on so many possible scum teams, it's weird that she decided to put a vote down over it.
Supa still tops my list atm, so that's why my VTL is going for now.
VTL Supa
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