Why are so many resilient to fact-based truth regarding black criminality?

Author: TWS1405

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oromagi
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@TWS1405
Just made a comment on FascistBook on a video depicting black criminals thieving from a high end store in droves, made the obvious comment “blacks people thieving again,” and I get kicked off (FB jail) for two days!!! 
Hmm, your OP claimed that you were permanently banned from Facebook.

To date I have been permanently suspended from Instagram, Facebook and Twitter directly
Which one of these was the lie and why did you feel to compelled to lie about it?
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@PREZ-HILTON
An unfortunate result of not being able to think 5 minutes into the future. There is a reason luxury brands target young black people.

There is a reason rent a centers and payday advance places are able to do so well in those areas. It wouldn't be possible with a group of people that can delay gratification 
if i were comparing roughly equal job applications, would you recommend i skip over the one with the more ethnic sounding name ?
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@TWS1405
ENOUGH WITH THE ANTI-WHITE NARRATIVE:
hold on, are you pro-freee-speeech or not ?
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@3RU7AL
if i were comparing roughly equal job applications, would you recommend i skip over the one with the more ethnic sounding name 
I was a hiring manager before. My technique was to hire everyone who applied and then just be quick to fire the ones who are bad elements. 

If you feel somebody is performing shitty though, just talk to them and ask them why. Maybe they are having a hard time at home. Maybe they are depressed. Maybe they are a drug addict. I try to get the person help or personally help them no matter what.

Statistics are useful for knowing what communities are facing problems so we can target that community for help. Black crime statistics mean a disproportionate of pullback people are victims of crime as well, so increasing policing in that community really helps the average black person.

In all seriousness. Even if in your business it takes a lot of money to train somebody. Even if they are shitty at interviewing. Make your decision based on how much effort they are putting into trying to get the job. If they are professionally dressed and well groomed. Hire them.

Don't let HR check their resume. If they lied, they can still be a great employee. Don't base hiring decisions on whether you personally liked them in an interview. Studies show that interviewing well is not correlated with job performance.

Keep that shit out of the work place. The work place is a solace from the divisive shit that occurs in the rest of society 
TWS1405
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@oromagi
I didn’t lie. 

I had two FB accounts. One was personal and one was fake in order to debate. The latter one got me banned. 

I don’t typically make comments on political/social posts using my personal FB account. Did one time and off yo FascistBook jail I went for two days. 

Apologies for not being crystal clear for those in the back of the room. 
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@PREZ-HILTON
if i were comparing roughly equal job applications, would you recommend i skip over the one with the more ethnic sounding name 
I was a hiring manager before. My technique was to hire everyone who applied and then just be quick to fire the ones who are bad elements. 

If you feel somebody is performing shitty though, just talk to them and ask them why. Maybe they are having a hard time at home. Maybe they are depressed. Maybe they are a drug addict. I try to get the person help or personally help them no matter what.

Statistics are useful for knowing what communities are facing problems so we can target that community for help. Black crime statistics mean a disproportionate of pullback people are victims of crime as well, so increasing policing in that community really helps the average black person.

In all seriousness. Even if in your business it takes a lot of money to train somebody. Even if they are shitty at interviewing. Make your decision based on how much effort they are putting into trying to get the job. If they are professionally dressed and well groomed. Hire them.

Don't let HR check their resume. If they lied, they can still be a great employee. Don't base hiring decisions on whether you personally liked them in an interview. Studies show that interviewing well is not correlated with job performance.

Keep that shit out of the work place. The work place is a solace from the divisive shit that occurs in the rest of society 
shockingly reasonable

so, what exactly is someone supposed to do (you know, in practical terms) if they accept that "black culture" is "toxic" ?
Public-Choice
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Welp... I'd have to state that, to boot, criminological studies and data has also asserted the FBI crime stats are subject to racial bias.

For instance, black people make up more than 50% of all exonerated persons. 54.21% to be more exact. [1] Additionally, according to the FBI, their official crime statistics are not actually complete. They often lack data and also do not take into account other factors. They state:

"Some factors that are known to affect the volume and type of crime occurring from
place to place are:
• Population density and degree of urbanization.
• Variations in composition of the population, particularly youth concentration.
• Stability of the population with respect to residents; mobility, commuting patterns, and
transient factors.
• Economic conditions, including median income, poverty level, and job availability.
• Modes of transportation and highway systems.
• Cultural factors and educational, recreational, and religious characteristics.
• Family conditions with respect to divorce and family cohesiveness.
• Climate.
• Effective strength of law enforcement agencies.
• Administrative and investigative emphases on law enforcement.
• Policies of other components of the criminal justice system (i.e., prosecutorial, judicial,
correctional, and probational).
• Citizens’ attitudes toward crime.
• Crime reporting practices of the citizenry." [2]
They also go on to state that using the UCR to quantify crimes is ill-advised because the UCR does not include convictions and also there could be other arrests (they call them clearances) that were not considered because they were considered "Part II offenses." They also state that the UCR does not take into account the policing policies and staffing availability of all the police precincts nationwide:

"Ranking agencies based solely on UCR data has serious implications. For example, if a user wants to measure the effectiveness of a law enforcement agency, these measurements are not available. As a substitute, a user might list UCR clearance rates, rank them by agency, and attempt to infer the effectiveness of individual law enforcement agencies. This inference is flawed because all the other measures of police effectiveness were ignored. The nature of the offenses that were cleared must be considered as those cleared may not have been the most serious, like murder or rape. The agency’s clearances may or may not result in conviction, the ultimate goal. The agency may make many arrests for Part II offenses, like drug abuse violations, which demonstrate police activity but are not considered in the clearance rate. The agency’s available resources are also critical to successful operation, so its rate of officers to population and budget should be considered. The UCR clearance rate was simply not designed to provide a complete assessment of law enforcement effectiveness. In order to obtain a valid picture of an agency’s effectiveness, data users must consider an agency’s emphases and resources; and its crime, clearance, and arrest rates; along with other appropriate factors." [2] 
So, in other words, stop using the FBI crime statistics as a reason black people supposedly commit more crimes. It is extremely incomplete data for such an assertion. For instance, the FBI has spent years secretly investigating the presence of White Supremacy in police agencies across the country. [3] The investigations were started because of startling reports like a 1991 Neo-Nazi gang of police officers who targeted Black Americans [4] and a 2008 report of a police detective who was fired after a report found he tortured 108 Black Americans over the course of his career. [5] As per The Intercept's extremely thorough article:

"Burge notoriously referred to an electric shock device he used during interrogations as the 'nigger box.' In Cleveland, officials found that a number of police officers had scrawled 'racist or Nazi graffiti' throughout their department’s locker rooms. In Texas, two police officers were fired when it was discovered they were Klansmen. One of them said he had tried to boost the organization’s membership by giving an application to a fellow officer he thought shared his 'white, Christian, heterosexual values.'" [3]
So it is apparent there is a number of white supremacist police officers in our police departments around the country, and their racist policing has contributed to unusually high arrest rates for Black Americans, as indicated by the exoneration rates by race.

Sources:
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@Public-Choice
For instance, black people make up more than 50% of all exonerated persons. 54.21% to be more exact.
good point
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@thett3
Your cited article states the following:

"while poor youth of all races were more likely than wealthy kids to go to prison, the likelihood of incarceration was higher for African Americans at every level of wealth compared to white youth." [1]
This is methodologically flawed for one obvious reason. The study authors did not compare incarceration rates between all races' total arrests and incarcerations. They simply compared incarceration numbers with the total population.

Additionally, the study authors reportedly did not look into the police procedures, backgrounds of the police departments, or any raw data about these police precincts' arrest statistics to determine if there is racism in the police force or not. [2]

This is not methodologically sound at all. It excludes key information that would interpret the data outside of the three options presented in the report. For instance, what if black people were arrested far more often than other races, but were convicted less than other races? This could mean that overpolicing of black people is responsible for the elevated incarcerations, not criminal activity. Or what if black people were convicted nearly 100% of the time, while every other race was convicted 50% of the time? This could indicate that, either black people almost always commit the crime they are arrested for, or there is a rigged system going on. These sets of data are just as important for studies claiming to investigate racial policing.

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Athias
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@Public-Choice
Well done. One of the things which vexes me most as it concerns participating in discussions such as this is the notion that "a source/report/study" etc. AUTOMATICALLY INFORMS THE VERACITY of an argument. As if there's nothing left to scrutinize once said source/report/study is referenced--i.e. as you pointed out, the METHODOLOGY and CONTROLS. While I take issue with the notion that one can investigate "racism,"or "racial bias," much less quantify it, I applaud your skepticism and your capacity to scrutinize and deconstruct these cited references.

Personally, I don't believe many members (here) look past the title when submitting their references. And if they do, they'll quote tidbits with little to no consideration for the methodology and controls. It's almost as if it's part of a routine they don't completely understand. As valuable as sources/reports/studies can be, especially in service to empirical arguments, the aforementioned are no substitute for a sound argument.
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@Athias
Thanks. I agree with your sentiment that appeals to authority are horrible substitutes for actual facts and logical atguments.
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@Public-Choice
A police report is a fact. 
That report added to the UCR remains a fact still. Since the UCR is made up of data acquires from police departments reporting on fact based crimes, makes the UCR factual, however incomplete due to not every agency providing copies of their crime reported for statistical analysis. Still facts. Not an appeal to authority. 
Same goes for NCVS and BOJ data. All fact driven. Not an appeal to authority. Clearly you and Athias  don’t comprehend the difference. 
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@TWS1405
The FBI themselves, the people compiling the data you are inaccurately using, state the UCR is an incomplete set of data. So to make any definitive conclusions from it is bad data science.

The same is true for basic statistics like the BOP and other data. Prisoner statistics ignore WHERE and WHO prosecuted the case and HOW the conviction came about. This is important information as, for example, Kamala Harris had a known history of planting evidence on black people just to get convictions.

As I stated earlier, and as the FBI stated earlier, you can't use the absence of data as an argument for something. The fact is the BOP data and FBI crime stats simply state an incomplete picture of the entire situation. There is known news reports about white supremacy being pervasive in out police departments. It white supremacists are the police, which race do you think is going to be affected most? Certainly not whites.
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@Public-Choice
I already said the data was incomplete because not all agencies report. 

Notwithstanding, the data collected still provides a factually based picture of what data has been collected. 

What I’ve asserted herein is fact based on that (UCR) and other fact based data driven sources cited. 

UCR data is arrests, not convictions. 
Other sources like/similar, basic reporting systems like NCVS. Not convictions. So your what what when why where of prosecutions is completely irrelevant. 
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@Public-Choice
The planting evidence spurious claim are exceptions, not the rule. 

There is no white supremacy, only racism. And it cuts both ways. Not one way. 
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@TWS1405
oi vey.

The planting evidence spurious claim are exceptions, not the rule. 
List of times police planted evidence: 

Story of a police officer who planted drugs on 12 victims:

100 cases under review due to body camera footage:

263 cases under review in 2018 over planting evidence, 48 cases were dropped, 8 people freed from prison:

NYPD detectives allegedly planted drugs in Queens Apartment:

And this is just WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT.

Point being, the UCR is an atrocious tool for estimating ANYTHING about crime UNLESS it is used alongside other datasets to create a more complete picture. This also would technically hold true for the BOP statistics, as these people count as exonerated. Some were released from jail after their convictions. This is why the Federal Exoneration rate exists. Because people are locked up unjustly in our system.

TWS1405
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@Public-Choice
oi vey is right. 

There are over 60 MILLION CONTACTS with police every year. 

Your 100 cases here, couple hundred there are EXCEPTIONS, not the rule!!!! 

The UCR is an accurate record of ARRESTS!!! Not convictions. When juxtaposes to other sources, they demonstrate an accurate picture of what race, gender, age groups commit the most crimes in the respective categories. 

The UCR is about 75%+ complete. It wouldn’t matter if it was 100% complete. The fact won’t change that a tiny % of black males commit over 50% of the entire nation’s violent person crimes. Period. Fact. Period. 
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@TWS1405
Do you have a source proving it is "75%+ complete"? Not even the FBI claims that. In fact, the FBI doesn't even fact check the data. It is just raw reporting based on police department numbers that are self reported. So we don't even know if it is correct data. We also don't know what each police department counts as white or black. Mixed-race people often get misclassified in these things as well.

Additionally, those 60 million interactions are not all arrest situations. Many of them are casual encounters.

Furthermore, you keep claiming black males commit half of all violent crimes, but you are ignoring that the UCR is not a conviction database. Nor it is even a complete database of all arrests. Arrests =/= convictions. Anyone can be arrested, even without any actual evidence being there, just ask the hundreds of people who were. But not everyone can be convicted for crimes through an impartial trial. The justice system is so messed up that an innocent man can get life in prison for a murder he never committed based on evidence that didn't exist. And you want to use statistics from the people who do this very thing as proof of a claim?

So you can't just pull statistics out of your ass because you want to believe them negroes are all out to get whitey. Ok billy-bob?

The fact is that your claim is unproven due to lack of evidence. And maybe the reason you keep getting banned is because these social media companies realized they didn't want an anti-black cuckservative spreading disinformation.

You make the rest of us normal people on the Right look like racist, confederate-flag-waving, jack-offs who have a grudge against black people because they lost the Civil War and didn't want to move on with the rest of the world and become enlightened human beings instead of owning people as property, like a couch or a coffee cup.

It's hard enough being on the right as it is without people going around claiming they're "conservative" blaming black people for society's troubles.
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@TWS1405
All fact driven. Not an appeal to authority. Clearly you and Athias  don’t comprehend the difference. 
First, if you have something to say to me, do me the courtesy of addressing me directly. Second, I never accused you of appealing to authority--though I could--only substituting references you haven't scrutinized for a sound argument.

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@Public-Choice
Additionally, those 60 million interactions are not all arrest situations. Many of them are casual encounters.
No shit Sherlock! 
The point of mentioning the 60+ million encounters is to rebut (more than adequately) your 100 or 200 or so exceptions to the rule. Doubling down on your failed point is not an impressive counter rebuttal. 

No, I do not have a source for the casual hasty generalization (for the sake of argument) % of how complete the UCR database is. It is a generalization. And a damn good one too.

“There are 17,985 police agencies in the United States which include city police departments, county sheriff's officesstate troopers, and federal law enforcement agencies.” - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_the_United_States

“The Uniform Crime Reporting Program (UCR) is a nationwide, cooperative, statistical effort of more than 18,000 law enforcement agencies voluntarily reporting data on crimes brought to their attention. ” (this includes universities, etc.) - https://health.gov/healthypeople/objectives-and-data/data-sources-and-methods/data-sources/uniform-crime-reporting-system-ucr

So yeah, the UCR has a participation rate of 75% or more.

Furthermore, you keep claiming black males commit half of all violent crimes, but you are ignoring that the UCR is not a conviction database
Again, no shit Sherlock! I have repeatedly said it is a database collating information on arrest records. Are you blind in one eye and cannot see out the other, or just lacking in reading comprehension skills. 

So you can't just pull statistics out of your ass because you want to believe them negroes are all out to get whitey. Ok billy-bob?
Ignorant strawman argument. 

The fact is that your claim is unproven due to lack of evidence. And maybe the reason you keep getting banned is because these social media companies realized they didn't want an anti-black cuckservative spreading disinformation.
No, it is not. It is a proven claim. Criminologists have been studying and reporting on it for decades. I know, as I have a degree in the field and have studied it myself. There are plenty of reports online you can Google to read/review for yourself.

I get banned because the left hates the truth because to them the truth sounds like hate. That is the ONLY reason why I get banned…for telling the truth. It’s their lying eyes that cannot accept the that truth. Fact. 

You make the rest of us normal people on the Right look like racist, confederate-flag-waving, jack-offs who have a grudge against black people because they lost the Civil War and didn't want to move on with the rest of the world and become enlightened human beings instead of owning people as property, like a couch or a coffee cup.
Nah, you do that all on your own. It’s called psychological projection for a reason. 

It's hard enough being on the right as it is without people going around claiming they're "conservative" blaming black people for society's troubles.
Yet another ignorant strawman argument. 
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@Athias
First, if you have something to say to me, do me the courtesy of addressing me directly.

I referenced you, I didn’t have anything directly to say to you. Big difference. 
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@TWS1405
I referenced you, I didn’t have anything directly to say to you. Big difference. 
You referenced some presumed authority over that which I do or do not understand. I'm not going to play games, so enjoy another night, sir.

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@Athias
You referenced some presumed authority over that which I do or do not understand. I'm not going to play games, so enjoy another night, sir.
False. I made no such presumed authority. I made two very clear statements. The first referenced you, the second addressed something else entirely. As such, only one playing childish games here is all on you. Good night. Don’t let the bedbugs bite. 

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@Public-Choice
Public-Choice…for your edification:













All posts within this thread that debunk your recent assertions.


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@TWS1405
If you had a degree in the field then I would have hoped you could have spotted methodological problems. But I guess not.

Anywho, according to the FBI THEMSELVES for the 2019 UCR, which is the most recent:

Of the 18,667 federal, state, county, city, university and college, and tribal agencies eligible to participate in the UCR Program, 16,554 agencies submitted data in 2019. [1]
Let's run some numbers here... 16554/18667 = 88.6%. This means that, for 2019, the FBI WAS MISSING MORE THAN 1 OUT OF EVERY 10 POLICE DEPARTMENTS.

So, AT BEST, you can claim that we have 88% of all reported police department arrest statistics. However, this would be wrong:

These and additional data are presented in the 2019 edition of the FBI’s annual report Crime in the United States. This publication is a statistical compilation of offense, arrest, and police employee data reported by law enforcement agencies voluntarily participating in the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program. [1]
In other words, the FBI is simply just republishing raw data. There are undoubtedly mistakes in the data. Furthermore, every police department has different classifications for race and, in many cases, race isn't even reported. So for many crimes we have no idea if the race was even properly attributed.

This is what leads them to state:

Caution Against Ranking—Each year when Crime in the United States is published, some entities use the figures to compile rankings of cities and counties. These rough rankings provide no insight into the numerous variables that mold crime in a particular town, city, county, state, tribal area, or region. Consequently, they lead to simplistic and/or incomplete analyses that often create misleading perceptions adversely affecting communities and their residents. Valid assessments are possible only with careful study and analysis of the range of unique conditions affecting each local law enforcement jurisdiction. The data user is, therefore, cautioned against comparing crime data of individual reporting units from cities, metropolitan areas, states, or colleges or universities solely on the basis of their population coverage or student enrollment.
If the people COLLECTING THE DATA say it is not complete enough to infer any real statistics about crime rates, then who are you to suggest any different?
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@Public-Choice
There are NO methodological problems in the argument that I have put forth. 
Your lack of reading comprehension skills are the problem here. 
Sources have been given that back my position up 100%.
You have provided nothing to contradict any of it. That includes the numerous red herrings and doubling down on irrelevant issues of contention. 
Simple as that. 
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@TWS1405
I edited my previous comment.
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@Public-Choice
I edited my previous comment.
And? You’re still wrong.

The FBI is not “republishing” the “raw data.” The data is being collated and extrapolated into the various UCR reports, tables, etc. for criminological statistical analysis. Which is precisely why there are numerous reports, tables, etc. that respectively cover the numerous variables the “raw data” contains so as to make the research more viable, as well as the data.  

And my initial claim of the UCR being more than 75% complete is still accurate. Which supports my OP that a small percentage of black males in this country commit over 50% of the nation’s violent crimes (based on arrest records -  cause one can still be guilty of a crime but via jury nullification or prosecutorial misconduct, could be freed with prejudice),

And you are wrong when it comes to your assertion cities have different meanings for race. I worked in law enforcement, which includes records updates to the Law Enforcement Data System (LEDS). The racial classification is the same as the US Census. The only real racial classification that gets screwed up where data reporting is concerned regards Hispanics, since that is not a race; and we have no other appropriate classification for those of Spanish speaking descent. So they often get lumped in as white, which really skews the data. 

The ranking comment, that’s ranking for an entirely different purpose than what the UCR and other data sources are specifically used for (i.e., it is not data reporting for criminological purposes). So again, you are still wrong. 

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@TWS1405
And my initial claim of the UCR being more than 75% complete is still accurate.

If by "complete" you mean "contains all reported crimes from police departments," then I will agree with you.

The FBI themselves stated they received more than 75% of the police departments' reported data.

The FBI is not “republishing” the “raw data.”

Yes they are. Hence the phrase "statistical compilation":

This publication is a statistical compilation of offense, arrest, and police employee data reported by law enforcement agencies voluntarily participating in the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program. [1]
They did not analyze, fact check, or scrutinize the data. They simply compiled it.

Source (I forgot to post it earlier):
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@Public-Choice
There’s that lack of reading comprehension skills again.

Raw data is given via police reports, the FBI breaks it down into “statistical compilation,” which is basically what I said in my comment here (and you ignored): “The data is being collated and extrapolated into the various UCR reports, tables, etc. for criminological statistical analysis. Which is precisely why there are numerous reports, tables, etc. that respectively cover the numerous variables the “raw data” contains so as to make the research more viable, as well as the data.  ”

You’re being an intellectual coward here. Incapable of admitting when you’re wrong and continuing to double down on irrelevant red herring and strawman arguments. Pretty sad.