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@dustryder
You've proposed to send over the unskilled and the uneducated. How do these people gain residency?
I think Canada would accept them like they would any other immigrant. The US doesn't discriminate on wealth; they discriminate on the basis of if you would be a burden to American society. As long as it appears that they aren't a burden to Canadian society, Canada would probably accept them, just like America would accept legal immigrants from wherever.
You can't swear 40 million people to secrecy. It's as simple as that.
What incentive would they have to breach their contract and lose their nation expander salary? Only a fringe of people who would be interested would violate this aspect of the contract. They may say on social media, "Moving to Canada, escaping the US and it's lack of minimum wage" but Canada probably would accept this as anti-Trump immigrants and not as a threat to their sovereignty. Since China is getting very powerful, the US should start annexing land to stay on top.
And you've apparently decided to become the Mexico to their US.
What does this mean?
What advantages would this give the US? Why would you bother doing this?
To increase the GDP of the US. Our rival, China has 2/3 the GDP of the US, but their GDP is growing at about triple the rate the US is. If the US doesn't increase it's own GDP at the same rate, then China would overtake us and would influence the world stage more then the US. I don't want a communist, anti free speech country getting that power.
Why do you think private companies aren't currently "seizing the opportunity".
I think it's due to lack of interest. There are some people like Ellen Musk that interested in it, but Ellen Musk alone doesn't have the power to create alternative energy for the entire US. If the government stepped in, it would create so many jobs for people and the energy sales from the alternative energy once completed would help pay for the project and once that is completed, it would reduce taxes for American society to some level while being able to maintain current government services.
Bringing this around again, what reasons are there to reduce the minimum wage to 0?
The minimum wage is expensive for businesses and many businesses have to lay off workers in order to keep profits up. If the minimum wage was $0 an hour, then businesses could pay their workers anything mutually agreed.
You may say something like, "These businesses would cease to operate if all their workers left for government jobs". However, the businesses could automate and would be given low interest loans (slightly above inflation) to automate their businesses. Then, they can pay their workers nothing (since they are all machines) and businesses become way more common and the economy skyrockets.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I'm glad we agree on this.Adults choosing to go is on them.
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@dustryder
Probably the most polite liberal on this forum. May the other liberals follow your example.
Exception conversion therapy doesn't work
It might work. I think it's like a gym. It is hard and if you force fat people to go to a gym, they might develop mental health problems. However, if you want to be in a more fit shape, then you would enjoy the gym. Just as some people want to go to the gym, some people might want conversion therapy.
Banning conversion protection protects minors or otherwise vulnerable people from predatory practices, and this trumps anyone's right to self-delusion
What if it was legal but only for those 18 and older? This way, anyone who goes to conversion therapy does so on their own.
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@disgusted
And then comes the theocracy. Have fun with that.
Just because your pro life on the basis of scientific evidence does not make you theocratic. That's why I'm pro life; because of science and logic. Also, here's an offer that liberals like you might take; DACA rights in exchange for overturning Roe V Wade and making abortion illegal is our 28th amendment.
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@disgusted
For the gays that want it, they can go to counseling to become straight. They also can have conversion therapy if they want too. What's wrong with allowing them to become straight? You cite that it's "bad" however, lets say for the sake of big boy argument that it is bad. Smoking is bad for the individual, people have the right to do that. Just because something is bad does not mean it should be banned.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Conversion therapy and other ways to make gay people straight are legal in most states. The left wants to ban it nationwide. The right wants to keep them legal for gays who want to change.
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@Uther-Penguin
I understand that some people in the LGBT community are pressured, and they should not be pressured into it. However, some of them would want to get it on their own. If I were a religious LGBT person, I would want conversion therapy or something to make me straight and cis.
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@Uther-Penguin
Finally, something other then abortion for once.
Anyway, conversion therapy should be legal for religious gays who don't want to be gay anymore.
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@Greyparrot
Killing people is not a moral nor effective way to reduce overpopulation. You would have to kill 2.5 billion people to keep humanity at the carrying capacity. A more effective way to solve overpopulation is to increase the carrying capacity. A main argument concerning overpopulation is the fact that we use up Earth's natural resources. Provided this means fossil fuels, as society uses more renewable energy, the carrying capacity will increase, therefore not making overpopulation as big of a problem. Humans will inevitably colonize other planets and this would help reduce overpopulation without genocide to at least some extent. Also, in the US, overpopulation is not a problem. We have about 320 million people and comparably big places like Europe have had a similar lifestyle as America with over double the population. If Roe V Wade never existed, then the US population would be around 375 million. If Europe can thrive with 700 million people, I think the US can thrive with 375 million.
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@DBlaze
You might as well call masturbation murdering. Is sperm not alive? Where does the murder actually begin?
Sperm does not have all the necessary chromosomes to be a human being. A fetus does.
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@disgusted
What is an SCW? BTW, how is the pro life movement selfish? They have noting to gain from being pro life. If anything, they are selfless because their movement pretty much benefits only the unborn. I heard the left was into compromises. I got an offer for you. More environmental regulations in exchange for abolishing Roe V Wade.
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@DBlaze
it does not affect you in the least
Then that makes the movement selfless, since the pro lifers don't have much to gain or lose.
I just ask that you respect mine.
I respect beliefs. However, beliefs and actions are not the same thing. If your pro choice, that's fine. However, if you commit abortion, then that's where there is a problem. If you believe that speeding should be legal, that's fine; you're allowed to believe that. However, if you actually speed and get caught, then there is a problem.
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@DBlaze
Forgot to mention you. Read the comment above.
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Pro-choice people are not forcing anything onto other people
They force their will onto a fetus.
I don't care if your pro life or pro choice. I care if you commit abortion. If you don't want kids, either don't have sex, use an IUD, or set the kid up for adoption.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Human beings have no more right to be born then trees or dogs to live.
Then what separates murdering someone and eating their body any different from doing the same to corn? One is cannibalism, another is part of someone's dinner.
The unborn don't have rights
Currently they don't because of Roe v Wade. Neither did black people when they were slaves. Black people and fetuses both deserve protected rights under the law.
Because Jesus freaks are the only ones who need it banned to be happy.
I hate God because of something he said about hell and I still want abortion to be banned. Your argument here is stereotypical.
You would prevent those who disagree from having one.
I also would want to prevent pro slavery people fro getting slaves. The government forces it's anti slavery views on pro slavery people to not have slaves. Just like the government should force it's ideally pro life views on pro choice people because of science.
We are all due for a big war.
The conservatives tended to hate Obamacare. Yet they did not go to war over it. The left probably will hate the overturning of Roe v Wade. By going to war over a political disagreement, it's kindof like being a sore loser.
Also, you act as if abortion will be bane in every state. California will keep it legal. Connecticut will keep it legal. New York will keep it legal. It would only be the right wing states that would ban it. It would become a states issue instead of pro choice states forcing their views on pro life states.
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@Greyparrot
Why are you so extreme right?
Although I would describe myself as a strong conservative, I would fall left leaning on the following:
-Homosexuality
-Contraception
-AK 47s.
Almost everything else though I think I side with the conservatives on.
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@coal
Pence has zero chance of being president.
He has a 100% chance if Trump gets impeached or assassinated.
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@disgusted
How many aborted fetuses are you currently bringing up?
None, because I don't kill baby humans.
You seem like a schoolboy who's parents have indoctrinated you. You certainly have no knowledge of the topic under discussion. Left and right politics are absolutely meaningless.
My parents are liberals believe it or not. I'm the most conservative member of the nuclear family. My Dad's pro choice, so I know the pro choice arguments pretty well. I just strongly disagree with him on abortion and I disagree with him on a lot of issues, like taxes, military, and the border wall (I used to be for illegal immigration, but I changed my mind on that).
Every woman has an inherent right to the autonomy of her body, game over child.
I don't know what "game over child" means, but by stating that the woman owns the child, that's supporting the concept that humans own each other, which I'm not one that likes to label despite being labeled a lot, but how is that different from the concept of slavery?
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@Polytheist-Witch
I forgot to add you to the comment above. Sorry about that.
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Trees are live, dogs are alive.
A fetus has all the necessary chromosomes to be a human being. Them being human separates them from plants and other animals.
Yes the fetus is human but it's not born and it's rights don't outweigh the mother until it's viable.
Would you say the same thing about someone on an anesthesia machine that is known to recover after 9 months? They certainly are dependent on others without those party's consent. People on welfare are dependent on taxpayers without their inherit consent. Is this situation worthy of a death sentence?
The only way Roe v. Wade is overturned is if the Supreme Court rules in favor of Jesus over rights.
Why is the pro life movement stereotyped as theocratic? There are secular organizations for life. I personally hate god, but I'm pro life because of science.
When that happens there will be war.
I don't think a war will happen for multiple reasons.
1: Both the left and the right want to keep America united.
2: The left has much less guns and much less military support then the right does. They would not win in a war for abortion rights. Outliers like people who support the military and guns will know that they are outmatched by the right.
3: I plan on giving the left something they want in exchange for outlawing Roe V Wade.
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@disgusted
I'm not going to jail for this. An SJW is a "social justice warrior".
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@Polytheist-Witch
No one should have to live a Christian life but Christians.
Thanks for being one of those pro choicers who doesn't insult me for being pro life as we both have seen in previous forums. There is scientific evidence confirming that a fetus is a human being. A fetus has all the necessary chromosomes to be alive and they meet all the necessary criteria for life.
Roe v Wade is not getting overturned.
The following could cause Roe V Wade to overturn:
- If Pro lifers get a majority in all 3 branches of government and ending Roe V Wade is the main focus of the Republican Party (Immigration is the main focus of the Republican party today).
- If The Republicans strike a deal with the democrats for ending Roe V Wade and returning the decision of abortion rights back to the states.
- If artificial womb technology increases(which is inevitable) to the extent that from conception, a woman could cheaply and safely relocate the fetus into an artificial womb, therefore any pain the woman endures during pregnancy can be solved with renting an artificial womb.
-As abortion rates decrease, therefore making abortion more easily viewed from those who have never had one and therefore, an increasing social desire to treat the few women that commit abortions like another rare group of killers; murderers.
So Roe V Wade's days are definitely numbered.
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@KingLaddy01
He's an actual conservative. I like his stance on social issues like the right to conversion therapy and I think more importantly, his desire to overturn Roe V Wade. I don't like his stance on contraception though, but I think him as president could pin that issue to the left in exchange for abolition of Roe V Wade.
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@Polytheist-Witch
This is why the site is the way it is. No decent debater would post here.
I think besides the SJWs on this site that believe I should go to jail for being pro life, most other people on the site are fine.
Should the SJWs that threatened me with jail time over my political ideology get blocked?
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@dustryder
To exceed those numbers would bring into question why so many Americans are leaving America.
Canada may think it is because of President Trump and if asked upon this, the "Canadians" could answer, "We are leaving because of Donald Trump. We're poor. We're trying to find a better job in Canada since Trump made the minimum wage $0.00/hour.". They then go through the legal process to become Canadian citizens, it would take some time, but Canada initially would be pleased with all this anglophone immigration. Basically anyone who meets the requirements for Canadian citizenship would get citizenship to Canada (https://www.immigration.ca/new-requirements-for-canadian-citizenship). It is a long process, but the US government could provide a nation expander salary for the time being.
Of course this assumes that each of those "immigrants" are able to keep their mouth shut.
They sign a contract stating that they won't reveal their true intentions until every single nation expander is in Canada and every single nation expander gets citizenship to Canada. Once they are in, lets say for the sake of argument that all the nation expanders tell vouch for US annexation. I don't think Canada will deport half of their current population back to the US.
why would the Canadian government allow for such a very obvious invasion?
If the Canadian government doesn't detect millions of, "refugees" fleeing the US due to a lack of minimum wage, then they would unexpectedly lose their sovereignty. Canada might predict it, but by the time they do, it might be too late. Due to Canada's liberal nature, the Canadian government might not want to prohibit immigration out of the fear that it is racist.
Also, lets say for the sake of argument that it is impossible to invade Canada in this manner. The US can still use nation expanders to go into US territories to turn them into states. We can do this to PR, the Northern Mariana islands, and American Samoa, generating 3 new states for America. These areas have open borders with the US.
Ont my 2nd proposed alternative job:
Because solar energy is controlled by private companies and not the government
Currently, private companies aren't seizing the opportunity. If they don't seize the opportunity, then the government would have to. Once the solar/wind fields are developed, the energy generated is sold nationally and internationally and this helps reduce taxes for everyone in the US.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
My ideology isn't communism, it's traditionalist Catholicism. You know, the philosophical and political system which built Europe up from an imperial backwater into the beating heart of the civilized world.
Where in the bible does it say to kill the rich as what you advocated for below:
We should put all of the rich people in televised death-matches
Next point:
You know, the philosophical and political system which built Europe up from an imperial backwater into the beating heart of the civilized world.
How is Europe a Catholic theocracy? Most Europeans are pro choice, most base their economic policies on what they think will be best for the country rather then what they believe God wants them to do, and many Europeans are atheists/agnostics.
All capitalism has done is plunder that civilization's corpse
This is a false accusation. Capitalism has made society great, increased lifespan, created technological progress, and created the huge GDP per capita of the west.
transforming it into drag queens, dragon dildos, and WalMart.
For those who don't know, a "drag queen" is a transgender. Capitalism did make these, I'll concede this point.
However, it created dildos, which I don't know too much about, so I don't know if this is like porn or like contraception.
Walmart is pretty legitimate. I mean, it's a profitable business that helps the American economy, prevents tens of thousands of people from being unemployed, and provides products to hundreds of millions of Americans and maybe some more people internationally.
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@mustardness
The 1% helped society significantly for their wealth. If it wasn't for the 1%, we would be living like the Amish. Who made computers? The 1%. Who made most to all of the artificial things that are good in our life? The 1%. The 1% delivers technological progress to the world. They should not be punished with communism or taxes for that.
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@mustardness
Apart from the fact that you seem seduced by filler words like, "forward" and "progress", why would I agree to a deal like that? Locking up people based off of their political stances is unconstitutional. Also, with nearly half of the nation's population supporting Trump (it's probably a little less, but about half) you would need a lot of jails to house all those people. Feeding them would be expensive, how would you pay for that? How long will they be in jail? How is your idea any different from full blown Cuban communism? They tried to "progress" and it made them a terrible country that many people fled.
I made an offer and I thought the left was willing to compromise on things. Maybe this is a chance to prove that claim.
You wouldn't be saying this if we were face to face, so you shouldn't use the internet to spout whatever BS goes into your head. What if your employer finds this and fires you because you stated that you wanted to lock up Trump supporters and he/she happens to be one?
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@coal
I'm pro life. I wouldn't call myself anti choice in that a woman should be allowed to have premarital sex under some circumstances, and contraception is fine. It's obvious by your language that your pro choice.
How would you feel about the following offer: Abortion is illegal and contraception is free.
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@coal
If he's pro choice (which I think he is although I don't have proof) then I think he's wrong on abortion.
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@coal
His youtube account is here:
While I admit that it was impulsive to say, some of his commonalities with you are:
-You both trash feminism with long rants.
-Despite this, you guys aren't Republicans.
-You both are very factual.
As of right now, I like Dr. Shaym even though I think he's wrong on one thing.
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@dustryder
If they take longer then 1 year, that's fine, the cutoff date would be 1 year after when the "Canadians" are complete with the citizenship process. They would be give government deadlines that they would sign up for that would help them infiltrate Canada and once they become citizens, they have 1 year to vote for US annexation and to appoint a prime minister who would support US annexation as well. This then makes Canada part of the US.
You didn't mention my alternative job.
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@coal
Do you know Dr. Shaym? You remind me of him.
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@mustardness
@disgusted
@these 2 SJWs.
What's in it is the woman's business it has nothing to do with a misogynist like you.
Hard to believe that the Republicans are misogynists when they did the following:
-Gave women the right to vote before the democrats.
-Oppose Shariah law, something that actually oppresses women.
-Are against sex based abortions, something the democrats on capitol hill support(https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2012/h299). In other words, a party that champions it's self as supporters for the rights of females are willing to sacrifice those principals for abortion.
You and the other Trumpanzees need to get out more and open yourself to truth and facts
Apart from the fact that I want Trump to do something illegal enough to get impeached (so Pence replaces him), the right is the one with the scientific facts that confirm that a fetus is a human being. All SJWs like you have are feelings.
You state that I won't be pregnant ever. Although I won't be pregnant, you won't be aborted. Ever notice how every fucking person who supports abortion was already born, while there are many people against abortion that will get pregnant? In my family, the more female you are, the more pro life you are (unless your me). Women are only slightly more likely to be pro choice then a male is. I support restriction for men too. If a man causes a woman to get pregnant, the female should not be allowed to get an abortion but he should not be allowed to ditch the female he caused to get pregnant. I support restrictions for both sexes.
get off you high horse Alec
This is pretty rude. You seem to think that you are superior to not only a fetus, but also myself off of a political disagreement. I think your the one on a high horse.
the list of considerations that go threw a pregmant womans mind can be so much more than Alec can consider in a year of induced thought,
They think something along the lines of(in the vast majority of situations, something related to socioeconomic status. This can easily be solved with adoption or what I would call the 4 filter process(if you ask what that is, I can address it).
You claim abortion is a safe, legal way to end a pregnancy. If is legal? Sadly. Is it safe? Bullshit. Anything that kills a human being is not safe.
In the U.S., it’s about 1 in 5 (2). Of U.S. pregnancies that are unplanned, about 2 in 5 end in abortion (2).
This is a contradiction. Either 1/5 pregnancies end in abortion, or 2/5 do according to this statistic. Both can't be right, so you might have to get off that leftist source your on.
Abortion should be illegal because it kills an innocent human being. It does not matter how much pain the woman endures because since the woman chose to have the sex, she must live with the consequences. Since the fetus did not choose to exist, the fetus must live. Until you address this with something scientifically accurate, all your arguments are bullcrap.
Since you were being rude to me, I feel like being rude right back to avoid conceding in the name of your favor. I know Leftists like you 2 are being rude in the name of gloss words like, "progress", "hope", and "change". Well, rudeness doesn't work on me. I prefer relevant facts and not the contradictory off task facts you guys posted.
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@DebateArt.com
What would be your qualification for, "Varsity status" or "Professional status"?
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@DebateArt.com
In your professional debate idea, since we're not getting paid, what if you called it "The Varsity debates" instead?
Also, would I be in the squad? I'm currently ranked #4 on this site and I predict that since as of right now I have some easy wins coming in, and as of right now Virt has some losses coming in, I might be #2
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@blamonkey
@disgusted
@blamonkey
Most people aren't liberal or conservative on everything. Also, did you see RM's comment? Challange him to a debate on something that you guys disagree with so we have an idea on who's better.
@disgusted
This proves my point. How is this any different from communism? The Chinese government wanted to censor, "hate speech" towards the government and the term "hate speech" was coined by Mao. Also, how do I control a woman's body any more then I would control a rapist's body by telling him not to rape? I don't care about the woman's arm. I don't care about her leg. I don't even care about her uterus. I care about what's in it and that fetus's life is more valuable then a woman's convenience.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
Your communist ideology doesn't work in real life. It failed in Russia. It failed in China. It failed in Cuba. Left wing economic ideologies failed in most of Latin America and Africa.
Capitalism has partly made the USA the country with the highest GDP in the world.
Capitalism is an unequal blessing. Socialism is an equally shared misery.
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@dustryder
I'm glad you asked. Some ideas for the better job that the US government could provide the would be minimum wage workers are:
Job 1: Being a nation expander. The people the US government could hire for this job would sneak into a place the US would want to annex in numbers so numerous that they make up a majority of the population of the land the US wants to annex.
Lets say the US decided to annex Canada. Canada's population count is 37 million. If the US sends 40 million nation expanders (former near minimum wage workers) (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ocasio-cortez-is-wrong-most-workers-still-earn-living-wage-despite-middle-class-erosion-2019-01-25) to Canada for the purpose of expanding the country, and if all the nation expanders voted for US annexation once in Canada, then them plus the 20% of Canadians who already want to be annexed by the US would mean that 60% of Canadians would vote for US annexation; basically what Russia did to Crimea without the genocide.
I'm kindof a neo colonialist who wants to expand America's borders. To get the low wage workers willing to do this, they get paid $2 an hour (keep in mind they would be getting paid for 24 hours). $48 a day($6 per hour if their pay was condensed to only 8 hours per day) doesn't seem like a lot, but if they get a job in Canada, they would be getting paid at least $11 an hour(https://www.retailcouncil.org/resources/quick-facts/minimum-wage-by-province/), bringing the pay of the lowest paid worker in Canada to $17 an hour for the time being. In exchange, the US gets Canada, which would be fine since most of the "Canadians" would be fine with it.
The steps to get Canada to be in the US (assuming this plan gets put into action January 1 2020) are:
-Any worker that gets paid $15 or less per hour agrees to sign up gets $2 an hour for 24 hours a day for one year. The nation expanders would protest for US annexation within one year of the above date.
-Canada inevitably does a poll on if they are okay with the US annexing their land. About 60% of the population of Canada would vote yes if all the nation expanders cooperate.
-Once this happens, the US annexes Canada and the nation expanders continue to receive nation expanding benefit for 5 years. After these 5 years, the Canadians would get used to being in the US and probably would want statehood instead of independence, just as most people in Texas who previously were against US annexation got over it and almost no one in Texas advocates for independence now. If Canada doesn't become part of the US by Jan 1 2021, the nation expanders are stuck in Canada and their nation expanding salary ceases to pay salaries.
This would cost the US government about $105 billion, and the US would get the entirety of Canada's GDP in return; about 20x what we invest in the place with nation expanders.
Job 2: Installing solar power in the American desert. It would create more jobs then the 50000 coal jobs lost and the coal jobs can join the workers in solar panel installing in the South West. The US can then sell the energy to other countries and the money from that can help pay off our debt. Education on how to install panels can be provided; it would still be profitable for the US.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
Putting the top 1% to death for being rich is unconstitutional. You shouldn't use the internet to state claims that you wouldn't be willing to say in real life. This means putting to death many Americans since worldwide, many are in the top 1%. Because of capitalism, in the US, 90% of the US population is above the global average. The same can not be said of China.
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The minimum wage should be $0.00. If a poor person doesn't like their job due to lack of salary, the government could provide them with a better job.
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Because unlike the Conservative caveman-mentality which thinks words don't hurt or matter, we know they do.
Why do you mention "we"? I'm not a liberal. Conservatives believe that hate speech should be classified as free speech partly because what counts as hate speech? Who decides? Will being pro life one day be a hate crime towards women?
This is why we are so excellent at using words on platforms where gang bullying and abuse is banned and prevented, such as in a 1v1 debate where only the opponent can gang on us.
I don't think much of the left is excellent at using words on platforms. Many leftists label conservatives as bigots. On DDO, conservatives dominated the leader board and this was when DDO was not a dead website (https://www.debate.org/people/leaders/)
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@Polytheist-Witch
@ResurgetExFavilla
@Mharman
@Polytheist-Witch
Individual native Americans can own land, they should own it under the American banner rather then the banner of their reservations.
@ResurgetExFavilla
Wishing death upon someone for their ideology is unconstitutional.
Thanks for sticking up for me. We don't have to agree on whether or not to invade Africa, but if you want to discuss whether or not it would be a good idea, you can comment on the form I dedicated to that. I don't want to go off on a tangent on this form. THe Africa invasion form if you wnt to comment on that invasion is below:
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If this is true, then why do they need safe spaces to defend their ideas? Can you provide an objective source to back up your claim?There is actual link between being good at debating, thinking and general intelligence and leaning to the left.
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@IlDiavolo
If California did that, I would worry that many in the region would want to break away and form their own countries, just like many in PR want to do.What's next? Recognise Spanish as second language?
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@Jhhillman
I don't like RM either.
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How does this happen?
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@3RU7AL
This shows a picture of an aborted baby at 14 weeks:
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