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Okay, I cant stop thinking about Earth's post.
Is BK even a new member? Seems like they could be an alt. Also kinda strange. I'm hanged up on their theme post, while they also seemed to do some research. I'm leaning towards town, however.
He claims at the end "I am leaning towards town".
But everything he says before that claim implies the opposite.
He made this one confusing post telling us basically nothing, and then went completely inactive.
This is not a behavior of town player.
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@badger
Who do you actually FOS?
I will read the thread over one more time and then I will give my final conclusion on who I think is most likely scum.
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Earth has low activity. Other than 1 comment about me being an alt, he didnt post anything else. It doesnt make sense.
Supa continues with his lies. After I pointed him to the posts where he made an obvious claim of me not being new, he resorts to denying it. However, he never explained what he meant by things he said in post 37, 38, and 40.
Next, he focuses on my "expanding lynch pool". However, what I did was not "expanding" any kind of lynch pool. I already explained that we are short on time and that we have to group people by probability of them being scum. The fact that he ignored my explanation is suspicious.
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More from AI:
"Figuring
out who the scum are in a forum mafia game can be a difficult task, but
there are a few strategies you can use to increase your chances of
success.
The first strategy is to pay close attention to the behavior of the players. It's important to look for clues in the players' posts and actions that may indicate which players are scum. For example, scum players often try to divert attention away from themselves by making false accusations and spreading misinformation. They may also try to form alliances with other players, or be overly aggressive in their posts. Additionally, look for players who make suspiciously contradictory or suspiciously similar posts, as this may indicate scum players trying to manipulate the game.
Another strategy is to analyze the voting patterns of the players. Look for players who are consistently voting against Town players and attempting to lynch them, as these are often scum players. Also, look for players who are consistently voting with scum players in an attempt to get them lynched, as well as players who are voting randomly or abstaining from voting.
Finally, you can look for players who are using the game mechanics to their advantage. This could include players who are using the night phase to their advantage, such as scum players who are using their night actions to target Town players. Additionally, look for players who are using the game mechanics to manipulate the Town, such as scum players who are trying to manipulate the voting patterns to get Town players lynched.
By paying close attention to the behavior of the players, analyzing their voting patterns, and looking for players who are using the game mechanics to their advantage, you can increase your chances of correctly identifying the scum players in a forum mafia game."
The first strategy is to pay close attention to the behavior of the players. It's important to look for clues in the players' posts and actions that may indicate which players are scum. For example, scum players often try to divert attention away from themselves by making false accusations and spreading misinformation. They may also try to form alliances with other players, or be overly aggressive in their posts. Additionally, look for players who make suspiciously contradictory or suspiciously similar posts, as this may indicate scum players trying to manipulate the game.
Another strategy is to analyze the voting patterns of the players. Look for players who are consistently voting against Town players and attempting to lynch them, as these are often scum players. Also, look for players who are consistently voting with scum players in an attempt to get them lynched, as well as players who are voting randomly or abstaining from voting.
Finally, you can look for players who are using the game mechanics to their advantage. This could include players who are using the night phase to their advantage, such as scum players who are using their night actions to target Town players. Additionally, look for players who are using the game mechanics to manipulate the Town, such as scum players who are trying to manipulate the voting patterns to get Town players lynched.
By paying close attention to the behavior of the players, analyzing their voting patterns, and looking for players who are using the game mechanics to their advantage, you can increase your chances of correctly identifying the scum players in a forum mafia game."
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This is what AI said, I just pasted it one by one:
"In forum mafia games, scum are a group of players who are working
together to deceive and manipulate the other players. The goal of the
scum is to deceive and manipulate the other players. The scum can also use
their knowledge of the game and the other players to their advantage.
They can make false accusations, spread misinformation and generally sow
chaos"
"In forum mafia games, the players are divided into two groups: the Town
and the Mafia. The Town consists of players who are trying to identify
and eliminate the Mafia, while the Mafia consists of players who are
trying to deceive and manipulate the Town to their own advantage. The
Town can win the game if they are able to identify and eliminate all of
the Mafia players, while the Mafia can win the game if they are able to
deceive the Town and manipulate them into voting for an innocent player."
"In order to win a forum mafia game, you need to be able to outwit and
outmaneuver your opponents. The goal of the game is to identify and
eliminate the scum players while preventing them from manipulating the
Town. To do this, you need to be able to read the game and make accurate
predictions about who the scum are, as well as use your knowledge of
the game and the other players to your advantage. Additionally, you
should also be able to make strategic decisions about when to make
accusations and when to abstain from voting. Finally, you should be able
to work with the other Town players to coordinate your efforts and make
sure that you are all working towards the same goal."
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@ILikePie5
All I’m wondering is what was unclear to you from the guide and what did the AI say?
I obviously did not save what AI said, but I can recreate it easily.
I asked questions like:
"In forum mafia game, is scum and mafia the same?"
"In forum mafia game, how to win"
"In forum mafia game, how to figure out who is scum"
"In forum mafia, how many players are town"
"In forum mafia, how many players are scums"
"In forum mafia, what roles does town usually get"
And many more. You asked for AI answers for this. Ok, wait a second and I will post it.
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@ILikePie5
You clearly aren’t new lol. All the veterans including myself have seen noob play. You are far from it.
Well, are we supposed to trust that "seeing noob play" translates to "knowing how every noob plays"?
I am aggressive in this game, yes. I will go after anyone I suspect. It does not mean I am an experienced player.
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What I am seeing right now is:
There were 2 topics:
1) "new players are scum"
2) "suspicious union against new players".
The fact that 5 players decided to pile on topic 1, but not on topic 2, could tell us that the scum is likely among those 5 players.
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Now when I read the thread over, I noticed something that I missed before. It seems that 5 players were focused on attacking new players. Before, I read the union of 3 as "scum union" and assumed that at least one of them has to be scum pushing the topic.
But now, it is clear that being paranoid about new players is not an isolated case.
This makes things difficult. With 5 players focusing on me and austin, it is quite possible that 2 out of 5 are scum. But then again, this situation is strange. Usually, town players should not pile quickly on topic that already has 2-3 supporters. So this is either town playing extremely stupid, either last 2 players to pile on such topic are scums.
"Earth and pie" or "earth and supa" seems possible scum combo, but if they are town then they are playing extremely bad.
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My summary on this
At start, badger voted to lynch lunatic, so I did too to see a reaction.
Lunatic accused new players of being scums and vtl austin, also says "new players arent new".
Mhar starts defending new players, but just a couple of comments later changes story completely to opposite.
Pie votes to lynch me, makes a comment about Wylted "labeling me as new" being suspicious.
Supa also claims wylted is playing tricks and that I am not a new player. Later, Supa claimed that he didnt say how I wasnt new. However, he did in post 37, 38 and 40.
Pie asks me to tell him what I know about mafia. I assume he is trying to revive the topic "new players arent new".
I clearly told him that reading older games and guides got me confused. He questions this by saying "it doesnt seem confusing to me". This is an example of false logic, because "it is not confusing to person A" does not mean "it is not confusing to person B". I already explained that too much unknown terms were used. Plus, he assumed I dedicated myself to reading guides when I already explained to him at the start that AI browser explains things much better than any guide.
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@ILikePie5
Interesting, cause Earth also has roles listed on his guide. Earths roles meant nothing but MafiaScum did?
Making a guide that has too much unknown words without clear definitions is not suitable for a new player who never played mafia or any other forum game.
As I said, I only understood the basics of game when I asked AI.
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Second, he claims that he has read past games but doesn’t clarify which ones, yet he makes the numbers mistake.
Do I need to clarify which ones? I see that I made a mistake of even mentioning how I learned the basics of game. And I dont remember what "numbers mistake" I made. I merely suggested that this could be "5 - 3" or "5 - 2 - 1", due to the secret of set up.
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@ILikePie5
Common =/= desirable…
As I said, its about roles. You can figure out which ones are desirable from their description.
So you didn’t look at Earth’s guide and you found the MafiaScum guide as not too many roles?
I did take a look at Earth's guide. It didnt help me understand anything, so I didnt come back to it.
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@ILikePie5
The fact that he posted a link to MafiaScum roles as a response to my ask if him elaborating on which roles are desirable is extremely suspicious.
The link is about roles, and which ones are common.
they would look at the Guide created by our very own Earth or even look at the roles that Supa posted
I did check supa's link. The roles supa posted is what confused me. There were too many of them.
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@ILikePie5
That doesn’t answer my question.
Your question was: "Could you elaborate".
I dont really see what I need to elaborate.
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I think this depends on adults who are there, not on the drag show itself.
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How would these translate to an AI or sufficiently advanced animal gaining personhood?
If we look at human baby, we know it has less intelligence than AI. It has less intelligence than many animals. It also has less self-sufficiency than many animals. However, no one will point at the baby and say that its not a person.
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It may not be common, but I am pretty sure that there is a belief that semen is a person.
People do have some common beliefs, but also many different believes.
Most people agree that abortion at 8 months of pregnancy is wrong.
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I would not consider Earth to be scum.
He isnt even online. Maybe he doesnt even know that the game started.
We would really be gambling if we went on lynching for inactivity.
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There is no any indication that the war is winnable for Ukraine. A dozen new aircrafts wont change that.
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"This media is the enemy of democracy" is a correct statement.
Media is not owned by the public. Even the very "open to public" form of media like YouTube is subject to certain selection. For example, very important videos sometimes have very little views, while "cat videos" have millions of view.
If we are looking at very selective media like CNN, we can see that they are pushing the same views on citizens over and over.
People working in media are supposed to give you facts, not their opinions or the opinions of their guests.
Most people will blindly believe the large amount of things media tells them.
The whole point of democracy is citizens using their reason to make a judgment. That might be difficult to achieve, because the difference between "education" and "indoctrination" is too complicated to be understood properly by average citizen.
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@Mharman
1. The whole "Idk what to do" thing in Post #6, only to be followed up by a lot of comments that look like he's pretty sure of himself (a new example of this contradiction is found every time they post).
Actually, I clearly said "other than asking questions, I dont know what to do".
Yes, after that I chose an aggressive playstyle. Was it the right decision? I dont know. But it seemed like my only option. After it was clear that there is no any theme and that everything is randomized, asking questions would not work.
I have no idea how to reveal who is scum in a game that has no theme, other than playing aggressive.
The immediate town read of you in Post #7 based on your research. I'm not saying that announcing research is inherently scummy, but it's not inherently towny, either.
My decision was based on probability, not certainty. Probability is used to make decisions in a game where probability is everything.
then they go on to call out the illogical parts of Lunatic's sus on you, and then assert in Post #56 that Lunatic is scum because his instant scumread
Lunatic's behavior was rather suspicious. If he was town player, the only explanation could be that he was baiting scums in a rather bad way. If he is experienced player, that doesnt seem to make sense. However, if he is scum, he would want to desperately put someone else in focus using any invalid logic he can think of. As I said, my vote on him was shot in the dark. I wanted to see two things: 1) his reaction, 2) who else will vote on him.
No one voted on him after I voted, which is normal. It is not an indication of anything. His reaction is what seemed a bit off to me.
they ignore how their instant townread on you would be just as irrational.
I already explained reason for towning, as it is a probability, not certainty.
So it's not really that B.K's poor logic is the problem, it's the fact that they give so much thought to the idea of logic, EXCEPT when they make a conclusion.
Is a false claim. The logic behind the conclusion was "probability" and "suspicious reaction" and "suspicious union". These being the only clues I had, basing my logic on anything else was impossible.
With that in mind, the fact that they instantly called you "town" and than instantly called the one person who disagreed "scum" reeks of buddying.
Is a false claim. The person did not simply "disagree". He provided reasons such as "new players are usually scums" and "he doesnt ask us questions, so he must be scum" and for me he added "is he really a new player".
These reasons are all set up on the belief that new players are scums. Such belief doesnt help the town at all. If town happens to be wrong and lynches a new player, its pretty much game over for town. Wylted clearly said it was randomized, so the odds of new player being scum are "1 in 4" if there are 8 players and 2 of them are scum. That is way below 50%.
The whole "testing reactions" thing (as he claimed in Posts #54 and #61 looked legit to me for a bit, until I noticed how he did it. When he set up his "test" in Post #10, Lunatic didn't even respond to the vote itself (instead focusing on you), and yet by Post #19 they were already calling Lunatic "scum."
I already explained that I put pressure on lunatic to see if he will act reasonably(town) or unreasonably(scum). If we look at what lunatic did, we see that he focused the story on new players. It is something very unreasonable for town to do if the claim "everything is randomized" was said.
While they gave a different reason than their "test" in Post #19, he makes it clear in Post #56 that Lunatic's focus on you in Post #13 was a failure of his "test."
Yes, he failed the test badly. He happens to be the player who is most likely scum. He could be a town player who is out of touch, but it seems quite unlikely. The topics he is arguing for dont help the town at all. He only directed the topics towards new users, causing confusion. His topics give us no indication who is scum. We are supposed to trust his "judgment" and focus the story on new players. With the odds of 1 in 4 to be right after it was clearly stated game was randomized, he continued to insist that his judgment is right.
Not to mention the fact that Lunatic didn't even say you were scum; he only said in Post #13 and reiterated in Post #29 that you COULD be scum, based on you being a noob. Was it dumb? Yes. But it wasn't outright saying you were scum, as B.K claimed.
Saying "could be scum" in a guessing game intends to suggest great possibility. If he provided proper reasons for this and not go around saying "new players are usually scums", I wouldnt have any more doubts on him. However, what he is producing in this thread is greatly harming town and I am not yet ready to believe that it serves some different purpose.
It's completely unfair to test someone's reaction, and then say their lack of reaction is scummy
Is a sentence that makes no sense. Reasoning was already provided.
It's basically a test where Lunatic was damned if he did, damned if he didn't.
Is a false claim. I already explained what the test was about and how it was made. It was made to bait lunatic to make moves that are obviously harmful for town in order to expose him as scum. If he didnt make those moves, I would have unvoted and no harm would be done.
4. The idea in Posts #56 and #61 that Lunatic, Pie, and Supa are all somehow scum because they "baited" those three all into "uniting against" them.
Their union is highly suspicious. In a randomized game, new player has same chances of being scum as does any other player. Yet they insisted that new players are scums and that new players are not new players simply for claiming they were new. Their union doesnt make any sense. They are calling mod a liar. It could be that they are out of touch in the game, but what they are doing isnt helping town.
Ignoring the fact that they're basically claiming Pie and Supa also failed their "test," it is ridiculous to assert this game has 3 mafiosos
I admitted it was a small chance. But if 3 players united on a topic of "new players are scums", it doesnt make sense that any of those 3 players are town. It could be that one of them is simply testing things to lure actual scum to support them.
it just looks like they're expanding their lynch pool.
Quite the opposite. I am trying to separate "who is scum" from "who is pretending to be scum".
Without any theme and without any given set up, this game is scum favored. We dont even know if there is a 3rd party or not. My aggressive approach may seem strange, but its only 72 hours that we have and we have no clues other than people's reactions. If we get it wrong on day one, it will probably be "4 -2". At that point, our chances of winning are none.
So yeah, B.K has some poor logic, but it seems less like it's just plain wrong and more like it has a manipulative purpose behind it.
Is a false claim. I didnt claim my logic was 100% correct. I claimed it is most likely to be correct. I still stand by that claim.
At this point, it's more of a pattern than a mistake. He might be a noob, but I think he's a rather smart one.
My aggressive approach is not a scum pattern. The only other choices were "not being aggressive" and "being inactive". In a different game, not being aggressive may work. Not in this game.
As for the teammate, I suspect Badger right now, with a slight consideration over the other possibilities.
Badger was mostly inactive. Maybe I should have focused on him too, but he seems like a player who is unlikely to reveal of being scum.
I am not ruling out the possibility of weird set up.
Wylted said he wont reveal it, so that seems a bit off if set up is simply "6 - 2".
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If the set up is "6 - 2" as assumed, then town can only afford to make 1 mistake.
However, if town gets it right on day one, then it will be "5 - 1".
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@ILikePie5
How about you two explicitly tell us what you do know and what you don’t know about mafia in general and then forum mafia
This is my first mafia game, but I did spend a week reading older games. It got me confused, so I searched the internet for answers. Finally, the AI helped me to learn rules. Apparently, AI browser gives better explanations than regular browser.
I would say I didnt memorize the roles, but I noticed some were more desirable than others.
I want to say I wish this game had a theme. At this point, the topic is "are new players really new" and "suspicious unity against new players". I am not sure how this will turn out, but we will have to lynch someone eventually.
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Tyrannical governments in themselves are not a problem.
Its the war starting governments that I am concerned about.
"Taking away freedom of speech" is very low of importance when compared to "starting wars and doing mass killings".
There are levels of tyranny, and we shouldnt start a civil war over "little tyranny".
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@AustinL0926
That also depends on roles. Certain roles are better than others.
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@AustinL0926
If it is "6 - 2" and town gets it right, it becomes "5 - 1".
So basically, this first day is crucial for everyone in any ratio of town/mafia.
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@AustinL0926
It is hard to win a "5 - 3", but not impossible. As I said, town needs to get it right on day one.
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@Vader
Another thing is Austin is not new either, so if I understanding what you are going to reference, the opinion was changed once Austin revealed he was not new.
I already cleared this issue. It wasnt known from the start, but it helped reveal some other things.
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@Vader
Your words:
Korea knows a good amount about mafia to consider him new by any regards
You posted this after the mod said that I was new, only to withdraw it in a terribly unclear text.
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@AustinL0926
I was thinking that too at the start.
I thought it is either "6 - 2" or " 5 - 2 - 1".
However, their quick union on a single topic doesnt seem to make sense if they are town.
And I would not be surprised if the game is set up to "5 - 3". It is possible to play like that too, just the town has to get it right on day one so it is "4 - 2".
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@AustinL0926
I was mostly suspicious because Korea seemed eager to lynch Lunatic
I wasnt eager to lynch him. It was a shot in the dark.
Normally, it is in town's interest to lynch a scum. However, we can only expose scums by observing their reactions to lynch.
Sure, I might have pushed it too much. But if what I am seeing is right, we are against 3 scum players who are playing the "spread out, unite" tactic.
In this tactic, they appear to have separate targets and they each focus on different topic and arguing different points.
But at crucial moment, they unite on a single topic.
Such union is pie, supa, and lunatic suddenly agreeing on topic of "best korea is not a new player".
I was trying to provoke them to unite in some way. At this point, I am 90% sure that they are scum. It is a guessing game. We will see if I was right.
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@AustinL0926
Why were you so quick to label me a townie?
The claim that you are town is most likely correct, due to your post about being new and saying that you will "read through archives".
New player who is scum would be more likely to either "ask users about the game in private chat, not even mention being new in public chat" either "focus the talk on being new and questioning a lot". You did neither. You merely stated that you were new. This middle path doesnt seem like something scum would choose.
Why did you VTL Lunatic before he had even posted?
I was testing him to see his reaction and see who will come to defend him.
Why did you claim a theme when Wylted mentioned that there wasn't one?
Wylted said "I consider this gay", so I assumed users were grouped in a certain way. Once Wylted said that it was random, I accepted that and didnt claim theme again.
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My so far observations:
Austin - despite some confusion about being new or not, if he was scum he would either "make more posts about being completely new" either "not mention it at all". The road he took was to just hint us he is new. He didnt focus on it enough to convince us he is scum. He even admitted he played years ago, which is not something scum would likely say.
Lunatic - very suspicious from the start. As soon as I voted to lynch him, he started deflecing towards austin. My vote to lynch Lunatic was a shot in the dark. However, the behavior that he displayed after that convinced me that I am justified in my vote.
Lunatic claims to be an experienced player, however, votes to lynch austin for a reason of "austin claims to be new player, but doesnt ask us questions", despite that austin previously said he will "research old games instead".
Lunatic provides a rather irrational reason for a lynch. It is something scum would do when under pressure.
Pie - Pie seems to jump to conclusion rather quickly and questions if I am a new player. However, what happened with him and supa makes me question them.
Supa - Supa and pie and Lunatic are joining in "korea is not a new player" union. This union is rather suspicious, due to previous behavior of lunatic.
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@Mharman
What’s with the near-instant conclusions from you?
The only way for this to get anywhere is to make conclusions and observe people's reaction.
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@Lunatic
you were asking questions and even pointed that out, this using the current player pool as a resource
New players could use current player pool as a resource to learn the game by asking questions. The other option is that they could "decide not to ask questions" and "not bother other players".
I wasnt sure about my guess of you until you started deflecting towards austin for no apparent reason. Now I am sure that you are not town.
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@Lunatic
You didn’t, you were asking questions and even pointed that out, this using the current player pool as a resource.
The thing I pointed out is "new players are more likely to observe previous games to learn from them, and say that they are doing so" if they are town players, where scum/mafia new player is more likely to ask his scum/mafia companions in private and not declare it publicly.
I just feel like I’ve seen the “researching old games” line before and usually I doubt people are actually doing that
Well, you can doubt. We can doubt everything here.
and already have some inside information and use it as a scapegoat
This seems unlikely. If we are going with "austin is a new player" vs "austin is a pro player deceiving us all", I would go with the first. However, I would expect mafia to say "austin is a pro player deceiving us all" to create confusion. Hence, why I think you are mafia and austin is town.
That’s what I’m saying though, I can see someone using the public statement about researching games as a scapegoat
You can see it! But is it likely? No.
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If everything is randomized, it will be difficult.
I think we can rule out austin to be mafia. He is most likely town. That being said, after NP we will have more clues as to who is mafia.
Right now, lunatic seems to be mafia, as he is trying to lynch a player who is "more likely not to be mafia".
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Why is a difficult question.
I am assuming that "Jesus" is valuable to them. It is also valuable to them to "spread the news about Jesus". It could be that they believe in being rewarded for such a thing, both in this world and the next.
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@Lunatic
Just curious how do you even know what a third party is?
I too looked through some games, but I also searched for instructions on the internet.
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@Lunatic
I feel like as a new mafia player you would probably want to scout out old games as scum more than town more to see how other players have tried disguising themselves in a game.
"Scouting old games to learn" applies to all new players, not specifically mafia players. However, I would assume that mafia player would be more likely to seek advice from his mafia companions, rather than publicly declaring he is looking through archive to learn how to play.
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@Lunatic
Wylted did say there is no theme he’s just calling it gay mafia
He did say he considers it gay. The only possible clue from that is that users were divided into town and mafia according to their usual behavior on the site.
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Christianity single-handedly almost wiped out the pagan religions of eastern and western Europe
Sadly, yes. Those are negative consequences of Christianity.
In my opinion, taking useful things from all religions is more beneficial than focusing on just one.
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There is a certain comfort in Christianity.
It promotes family, community and the value of sharing with those who are in need.
Those are the values that we cant simply throw away. They are important to us.
In that sense, Christianity is important to us. It doesnt matter if someone is not a Christian. There is a lot that can be learned from Christianity.
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I dont know why gays act feminine.
The explanation could be that "having sex with a man" or "dreaming of having sex with a man" starts a certain feminine behavior.
The other explanation could be that "being feminine makes them distinct from straight males" which leads to "being easier to identify".
The other explanation could be that "When gay guys reach a certain age and they find out that they are different from other guys", which motivates them to "act differently from other guys to show that they are different".
The other explanation could be that "When growing up, they learn that it is usually girls who are attracted to guys". This could lead to gay guys "finding similarities between themselves and girls".
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@AustinL0926
anyway currently reading through previous archived mafias to figure out what to do
This sentence implies that you are not part of mafia. I am guessing you are either town either 3rd party.
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