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@Barney
@AustinL0926
Austin and I didnt yet state our roles, however, both of us made it clear its obviously confirmed once used or claimed.
That leaves Barney as the last role that is not "that easily confirmable".
I dont want to find out your role, I just want to know if you will be able to confirm yourself by dp3. Its very important, because if what austin is saying is true, we have only 4 lynch targets yet 3 available lynches to hit one scum, which basically guarantees hit if 2 scum is among those 4 targets.
However, if you dont confirm yourself, you will be 5th target which kinda makes the win not so certain.
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@n8nrgim
Yeah, it seems like it doesnt work. Maybe it collapsed because site cant handle sending that many notifications.
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@n8nrgim
Well, let me check. I will subsribe to this thread, and you post so I see if I get notified.
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@AustinL0926
Do you not find it strange in the slightest that whiteflame straight up and said "I'm confirmable" and it turns out his role, is, for all intents and purposes, equivalent to any visiting role (which conveniently, scum always has)? And that he clarified his role right after Earth revealed what flavor of investigative role he is?
I am willing to give him a chance to prove himself in np1. I have no reason to lynch him now, even tho if he remains unconfirmed by dp2, that could change a bit, but we have 4 targets and only 2 are scum, so we are wrong somewhere, but with 3 lynches, it should guarantee a hit unless more targets appear.
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@whiteflame
Dont say who you will protect, just make sure its lunatic or earth. Its gonna be a gamble, one that we might even win.
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@whiteflame
I dont think thats easily confirmable, since scum often has visiting roles as well. Not to mention that scum can also fake tracker role, its not that uncommon, but I am not sure if it could happen here.
I guess its only confirmable if you die protecting your target, which when 1x, I dont find likely.
So yeah, I think its not very confirmable, however, we can make use out of it to prevent confirmed town players from dying. This could be important for us, so I am not putting you in scum pile or anything like that yet. But its important that you use your role to protect confirmed town player.
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@AustinL0926
Honestly I'm becoming a little bit skeptical of all the people claiming "confirmable" roles if this is what they mean.
I guess I should have asked "how easily confirmable". I mean, joe's role is technically "confirmable" under some circumstances, but in 99% of games, we could never confirm it. So yeah, I think this hurt our game a bit, because Earth who is confirmable claimed to be non-confirmable, and apparently, players who are actually in reality non-confirmable claimed confirmable. This led us in wrong direction of going after Earth.
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@whiteflame
I'm the bodyguard. The way it's framed in my PM is that I have a phantom shield (had to look that up) that I can use to protect others
How is your role different from a doctor and how is your role confirmable?
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From what I see, casey pretty much abandoned the game and went silent for 2 days. I mean, even a town player with granny role is expected to participate and give opinions. From what I see, we can only confirm casey if town player dies, so lynching casey is beneficial because it decreases number of possible scum players. As an alternative to this, we could ask more role claims. I am not opposed to mass claiming, if for nothing at least to lock scum to their roles in dp1.
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@AustinL0926
I guess we can discuss now if joe or savant is a lynch in dp2, but still we must also discuss what to do now. We need a lynch by the end of a day, which is soon. How do you now feel about casey with granny role? Is it likely scum, null, or likely town?
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@Earth
@Lunatic
You said your role is non-confirmable, but your role is the most confirmable role there is in dp1. I wouldnt even ask your role this much if you just said it was confirmable. I guess now it makes a difference. Without any further role claims, the lynch is casey. But I can understand the desire to get more role claims now. I think we should let lunatic or Earth decide and make the choice if we lynch or insist on more claims, as they are about as confirmed town as it gets now.
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@Earth
We have less than one day left, so again, I want Earth's role claim.
You or granny are most likely a lynch anyway this dp, and not claiming wont save you at all. I dont know why are you refusing to give your role if its non-confirmable anyway. Honestly, I suspect casey, but I suspect you more because at least casey gave role very quickly, where with you it seems to be difficult.
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If Savant, Joe and Earth are all town, then town has lost this game unless some miracle happens with night actions. Still, I dont see why would mod put both Joe's role and Savant's role in the game. That would be a serious disadvantage for town, basically cost us 2 lynches.
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Pushing a lynch on Joebob is probably a very bad idea. I dont buy that scum would counter claim Savant in dp1. For scum, it would just mean that after Savant is lynched, joebob gets directly exposed as scum where previously he was very much safe. This push to lynch Joebob seems suspicious, and I dont know why are we even talking about it when neither Savant nor Joe are getting lynched this dp.
The obvious lynch is Earth or Casey. Since we have 3 lynches available, it means if one scum is among joe, savant, casey and earth, the somewhat logical lynch order would be Earth or casey first, then Savant, then if Savant innocent, Joe.
I know that we can do other way around, first lynch joe, then if joe is innocent, lynch Savant. However, I dont see how is Joe more likely scum than Savant. Joe's play doesnt fit in into scum play. He doesnt save anyone by counter claiming Savant. If Earth is his scum partner, it still wouldnt save Earth, but it would reveal Joe as scum, basically giving victory to town. It simply doesnt make much sense that Joe is scum.
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@Earth
I'm going to give you nothing today
There is still 1 more day of dp, I think.
If you dont give role by the end of dp, I will vote that Lunatic lynches you.
I mean, even if you are scum, isnt 2 days enough to come up with a fake role?
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Still, lets not get completely distracted by this. We do need Earth's role claim. We went the other path too quickly.
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@JoeBob
mine said mafia kill, but I thought night kill and mafia kill are used interchangeably
When mod makes a game, he likely uses same pattern of words.
For example, if he says to one player "mafia kill" instead of "night kill", its likely he repeats same pattern when giving similar description to other player.
Its not always 100% the case, but this does add up.
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@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
@Savant
@JoeBob
I can almost confirm joebob because the way his role is described is very similar to way my role is described, but the way savant described his role stands out. The key word being "mafia kill" instead of "night kill".
Its an interesting choice of words, and it seems same was used to describe joe's role and my role.
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@JoeBob
Roles which save you from mafia kills are almost never confirmable, even if they succeed in saving you from mafia kill.
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@Savant
Why did no one tag me about this?
Sorry about that, but still I think we agreed not to lynch you this dp anyway, but this does kinda make you the most likely scum currently. I would still like a claim from Earth tho. If for nothing, just to lock him to claim and check justification for role.
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@JoeBob
Thats almost the same power Savant has. He just lives another day.
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@Earth
You dont want to claim.
You dont want anyone else to claim.
You dont want to lynch casey.
We are not lynching Savant.
So, what are we suppoosed to do?
You said your role is non-confirmable, so scum isnt gonna target you.
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@AustinL0926
I am not sure if scum must log in to talk to scum partner. I know I didnt use discord as scum, so its maybe also possible that one of the scums doesnt have discord so they can only chat through site's chat, which means they must log in. But yeah, it can also happen that scum accidentally logs in, and it probably happens often as its kinda tricky to log out all the time.
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Similar for casey: was online, but didnt post in a long time. I dont know how to feel about this.
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Earth was online 53 minutes ago, but last comment posted over 5 hours ago. Reading behavior is something I am very bad at, but it seems a bit weird to log in but not post.
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@whiteflame
I’ve never seen my role given to scum, but it’s also going to be very difficult to firmly prove, so I doubt I’ll ever be fully townread once I claim it.
If your role is confirmed, I will townread you. I have no reason to believe scum was given confirmable non-scum role. It would be crazy, especially if we know mod was given advice on how to balance properly. If this game is balanced properly, scum cannot possibly have confirmable non-scum roles. It would be way too much in favor of scum, since town only has 3 lynches to hit scum.
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@Savant
Saying that kind of gives away exactly what it is
There are no vanillas anyway. In games with vanillas, you pretty much hide important roles as much as you can. Here, any confirmable town role can be most important or most useless depending on how things develop. I agree that I may have rushed a bit there, and probably should have just said it can confirm me as town. Still, given the game setup, I think town can most likely win this, and I dont care if scum target me.
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@AustinL0926
they should also probably say whether their role confirms their affiliation
I think there are cases where scum is given an actual neutral role which can get confused for town role and even confirmed. Still, given that scum was also given fake claim of character, I find it very unlikely. Town needs to have a way to win, and it almost cannot win if scum has both main character claim and confirmable town-like role while town itself has 2 or more non-confirmable roles.
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@AustinL0926
My role 100% confirms me as town as soon as claimed.
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@AustinL0926
Yeah I guess. Still, I want to see if Earth's role was in previous game. I kinda find it odd that the granny is used twice. Maybe for the comedy effect. I want to see if any other uncommon role was used twice. And we need Earth's claim anyway, this is just extra.
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@JoeBob
this is now asking who to lynch today.
We must lynch someone to confirm Lunatic, however, we shouldnt lynch casey before we get role claim from Earth. His role might give us a clue, especially about if all roles from previous game are used, which is what I am wondering about.
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@Earth
I know that Lunatic should be leading this, but he is not online, so I might as well.
As it stands, people are considering between you and casey.
However, you still havent claimed your role. Do you have any reason not to claim it now, given that its non-confirmable anyway?
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Here is my latest opinion on the issue, so unless something changes, this is how it is.
We shouldnt lynch Savant now, even if he is scum, because its unfair to never let him get to dp2. Also, it is possible that we even confirm him somehow by dp2. So for these 2 reasons, I think we shouldnt lynch him.
Casey is granny, which means there is no way for us to confirm casey without significant casualties. She is the lynch anyway in dp2 or dp3, unless some cc happens which points us elsewhere. I guess what changes things a bit is that casey claimed early, which we also see from Greyparrot when he is scum. So its not out of this world that scum can claim early, and I guess with granny as a fake claim, it would be even mandatory. Still, why choose granny as a fake claim is what I dont understand, regardless of if mod gave it to scum or scum came up with it on their own.
Earth is suspicious. I remember when I first mentioned non-confirmable roles being targets, he quickly jumped to defend that confirmable roles can be scum. From this, I concluded that he either has non-confirmable role, or he is scum. Still, unlike granny, he can be somewhat confirmed by cop if cop chooses to target him, even tho cop should never say who will he target.
So I think, despite everything, these two are somewhat equal choices. I think we have about 50% chance, since I think two scums are between casey, savant and Earth.
All other players are confirmable, so must be let to dp2 to confirm themselves.
Between casey and Earth, I would very much like to get Earth's role claim first. It might give us something better to work with.
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@whiteflame
He would have had to receive a character as a fake claim that yours, mine and Earth’s seem to confirm should be in this game.He or his partner cribbed the Granny claim from the previous game, knowing that Moozer had a more than decent chance of including it in this game, and fake-claimed it in the hope that it could give him cover from investigations and lack of NKs while simultaneously allowing for a significant chance of being CC’d.
I agree that its a bit out of ordinary, but its not that unusual for scum to be given both fake claim of role and fake claim of character to one player.
The main problem with casey is that unless granny dies, or game ends, or town player dies, we will never know.
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@Savant
have more general information about what roles are available to claim
I assume you mean characters, but thats again equal to a fake claim, so again, I doubt mod would give 2 fake claims.
if they specify their role late
Possible, but that would be very risky. I agree that Earth is a bit suspicious for both claiming one of six and character late, thats how much I can say.
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@whiteflame
Earth is the only one I’m slightly off about because he claimed so late, as well as claiming to be one of the six rather late
I dislike that too, because scum would maybe risk it and wait for 5 players to claim, so he can fit in. Casey, on the other hand, could have been given fake claim of character, and granny is a cover to not get investigated.
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@Savant
Why is it unlikely?
Its very rare that scum gets 2 fake claims. Its usually one or none.
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@Greyparrot
I guess in your world, Trump and Putin are saving democracy.
LOL
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@AustinL0926
you're basically banking everything on the assumption of a simple themesplit and scum having just enough fakeclaims to blend in, but no more
Its possible, but unlikely, that there are 2 scums among those 6.
But as I said, I dont think Savant should be lynched this dp, if for nothing then at least his activity and what you said, they never let him to dp2.
But you must understand that other lynches are Casey and Earth unless we go after more role claims, which I feel would be a bit useless at this point when everyone else claims to be confirmable and wouldnt be able to be lynched anyway because "confirmable" basically means we have to let them to dp2 so they could confirm themselves.
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@FLRW
Yes, H.L. Mencken once described representative democracy as a system where “intellectually inferior men dominate their superiors.”
Trump is that intellectually inferior man.
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@Savant
BK is probably the main suspect for having the strong fake claim
My role is obvious town. Basically, at any point in game, as soon as I would claim it, it would be confirmed as town. Still, I am not going to claim it unless I am a lynch.
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@AustinL0926
There's a reason for me not to claim. It'll become apparent after N1
Ok. Then I guess we have all we need for dp1.
Unless someone thinks we should search for any more claims/soft claims, I think we can all put in our final thoughts before lunatic decides who will be lynched.
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@Earth
Okay, so 6 confirmable roles and 3 non-confirmable in total.
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@AustinL0926
You said that your role is negative utility.
Do you have any problem with claiming your role now, since I dont think scum will target you regardless?
Since its a negative utility role, it would help town to know what it is in advance, so if what you are saying is true, do you have any reason not to claim role?
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To be clear,
The game is divided on 6 main characters
And 3 (austin, lunatic, savant) who are not main characters.
Lunatic is pretty much confirmed town by the end of this dp.
Austin is, by his role description, most likely town, even tho I am curious about his role.
Now, I dont think scum was given 2 fake claims. They were likely only given 1.
So only 1 out of 6 main characters could be scum.
That leaves Savant as other scum.
I know this logic has its flaws, but I find it hard to believe that scum was given 2 fake claims or that scum had courage to fake claim to be two out of those 6, or that 1 scum was given fake claim of one out of 6 while the other also dared to fake claim one out of 6.
Maybe I am overthinking this, and yeah, I agree that we should let Savant play to dp2, and its up to lunatic to decide, but we are going to have to lynch someone this dp, as I dont think we can have no-lynch because lunatic needs to confirm his role this dp.
I still need to hear from Earth about if his role is confirmable, but so far the only non-confirmale roles are granny and bleeder.
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@AustinL0926
It depends on what scum was given, but in most games I have played, scum had non-confirmable fake roles.
At first, I thought scum is among 3 players who are not one of the 6 main characters.
But 2 out of 3 of those players have claimed an easily confirmable role, with lunatic being obvious town when he uses his role.
Basically, only Savant out of those 3 has non-confirmable role.
This makes me think 1 scum is among those 6 main characters.
The only other option is that you are scum, but given your role description, that seems unlikely.
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So at least 6 confirmable roles so far.
This is good, I guess, but all those roles need to be confirmed by dp3.
We can afford 2 mislynches, so if scum is among the non-confirmable roles, it basically means only 3 players are left with non-confirmable role.
I know two scum players can claim that they have confirmed each other, which is what we must look out for.
Now we just need to hear from Earth about his character.
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If we are mass claiming characters, I will start.
I am Mipha.
My role is confirmable.
I expect of everyone else to state their character and say if their role is confirmable or not.
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@Lunatic
In that case what do you think of the mass claim idea? At least characters wise
I think we already know almost all characters in game, we just dont know who has them, so mass claiming of characters could help a bit. I dont think we have other alternative. Currently, only granny or bleeder are possible lynches, so if we are not ready to lynch them right now, we must find some other options.
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