ILikePie5

Do you think we have enough info to not lynch blind currently?  If we target someone the character and role will get claimed anyway. I am just saying we pick that person off behavior and should not be to heavily swayed by their claim. 

If we keep outing stuff and not following through we are cucking ourself. If we actually stay with a lynch pool, I’m fine with that. 

Are those 3 hour final lynch pool. Cus they are not mine

I do not agree with one more claim for what’s it worth but we need to decide somrthing. I much prefer just picking and lynching. 

Love this reaction from Mharman... 

I can’t read through all this coherently atm but want to put out before we full pressure someone. We should absolutely make sure they are in a heavy lynch pool. If we start doing this shit where we push and all the claims start sounding good or well worded. Which I believe pie has already said about the two out there, we are going to take the risk of jumping between people and having to many claims come out. If much more come out this dp and we don’t commit to someone, we are giving mafia a huge advantage at night. 

We need to lock in on someone but need to lock in on behavior. Specially if there is a fake claim. I just can see this happening. We go person by person and every claim sounds good and then we’ve given up to much. 

There's a player here whose play I've been a little bit disappointed in. I wonder if everyone knows who I'm talking about.

Okay, so Austin is probably town. Gladiator is rarely a scum role, though I did put a scum Gladiator in my last 3v8 game. But I also added in the "Super Governor" that was specifically meant to help balance against it. (I was wondering if the town would realize that Bullish's role suggested that he and Cerulean were not on the same team, but that never happened.) I will say that if anyone else would make a Gladiator mafia, it would probably be Lunatic. But for now, Austin feels town behaviorally. Strong gut read. 

I just had an epiphany as I was typing that.  What if earth is town and scum are not pushing or jumping on the lynch because he is an easy Mislynch?

I need to go study, I'll be back in like 45 minutes. If anyone is around, please give a direction for me to explore, it can be a player, a particular section of the game, a specific interaction, etc, but I really need something to bite on to.

I don’t hate an earth lynch if there’s no better target but I gotta think the incentives for claiming something like that as scum are low…. The real question I’m grappling with is if Linatic would ever put that in a setup

Also just realized I forgot to claim my character (I was in a rush sorry), my character is Family Feud, because it's a gameshow that consists of two families directly competing against each other.

Seems like a pretty bad justification because there are lots of 1v1 gameshows, but that's just what Luna gave me so eh.

Okay I may regret this but I feel like it’s important. I’m a classic show. 

If that also helps while I’m curious about his claim. Add that to his behavior it may help you see why I’m “tunneling” 

Moozer defends a scum slip with another scum slip...

I mean irony aside, I'm not sure how AI this actually is. Pie reads a lot into wording like this and is usually wrong (though I think it's towny for Pie to be paying this much attention.)

Percentage you think he is actually town?

You think Moozer is TMIing because how could he know that those are all mislynches? I can see that.

Also I agree that the theme analysis is void. It’s why I’m not pressuring him on that and throwing it into the additive part of the read. 

It’s mostly behavior with the other parts adding back end validity. It’s just like the more that points to bullshit the more I think it’s bullshit. 

Why are you so sure his behavior is town? Or not scum ?

Can you at least fully admit if a normal person is playing like that. It’s highly indicative of scum. 

Yeah, I think you might be onto something. I wouldn't blow it out of proportion, but it's weird that 4 of his original five are clear mislynch targets. Like I said before, there's reasoning for three of them, but the fact that Banana got lumped in with them with little explanation makes me reconsider the whole bunch.

Also the part about “easy mislynches”

I feel like you guys are on nuts. 

You can think pie and I are theater. That’s fair but know. Between him and earth not reading a fucking thing I’m posting I genuinely want to punch myself in the dick. 

Yes my character makes me question his character as town.

You are saying scummy behavior is his town meta. I am not sure what to say to say that. I have not played with him in ages but disagree with letting scummy behavior slide because that’s just how he is. Anyone can abuse that

Actually I’m good with Austin claiming at this point. That or replace. I am not sure how else to deal with that issue atm beside intense pressure the second he types.

Yeah, I think you might be onto something. I wouldn't blow it out of proportion, but it's weird that 4 of his original five are clear mislynch targets. Like I said before, there's reasoning for three of them, but the fact that Banana got lumped in with them with little explanation makes me reconsider the whole bunch.

Waiting until Moozer posted could adjust if we want his claim. We had no idea what Moozer or Austin would post. Still don’t know about Austin. Maybe they come out the gate scummy as shit. It’s best to see given we still had like 2 days in the dp at that point.  As I said getting a full claim early is needed but we had time to see what they would do first. 

I am not sure if it’s a fake claim. I’m saying my character leads me to think things about the game so I think survivor could be a safe claim even without it being given by Luna . But the first person pressured would likely use a fake claim so it’s possible. 

I just think there are a lot of outs and I don’t really care about the character and justification in the moment until we see more from other people later on. I care about how he has acted and you can spit shit into your blue in the face and say that is meta earth behavior. You were on him early for his behavior but because you are comparing your character to his you think you are having some grand epiphany.

I’m telling you, my character makes me question it. We don’t know enough to give a shit about theme or characters atm. Behavior is way more important. 

Again you are doing IIOA.

Stop getting bogged down on role and character justifications especially when portions of it could be fake claimed. 

The role analysis and obscurity part is additive. That is the only thing you are going on about and it’s the least important part. 

It’s not that the claim itself interferes with anything, it’s that it’s non-verifiable. You don’t just auto-lynch a miller (at least I don’t), but there is a meta around miller claims because they’re inherently unverifiable. When that kind of claim is paired with scummy behavior, it becomes a very plausible, even meta to lynch.

Let me lay this out again:

1. He started the game barely engaging or participating.
   

1. Only started contributing after getting pressure.
   

1. Claimed a very obscure role, and if he is mafia, his team knows he is under pressure.
   

1. It’s easy to manipulate investigations as scum. 
   

1. His role can’t be confirmed until endgame, and not even through night actions, unless he slips or is caught by an investigative role.
   

1. His response after claiming was overly defensive, saying “this isn’t a weird claim, it was used in another game,” as if that’s supposed to justify it. along with all the other defensive behavior. 
   

The whole thing just feels too convenient, like an easy way to avoid a counterclaim by being the first full claim under light pressure. And let’s not forget, he offered the full claim after being told not to, both by Savant and myself because we asked to wait for Moozer.

It's not the position I'd expect you to make as town. Claiming something passive, unconfirmable, rare, and highly situational does tilt scummy, especially in response to early game pressure. I think the fact that Earth claimed Survivor is a pretty strong redeeming factor, stronger than Mikal seems to think, but to say that the claim itself isn't convenient is just weird, downright wrong, even.

Bro it's additive. Why do you lynch a miller?

I agree with the second part, but the first argument feels really weird to see coming from Pie of all people.

At least frame my argument right. I'm saying behaviorally he seems off, and the claim seems convenient.

The portion about not being confirmable is a liability argument on the backend of the behavior. 

Clarifying, I am not saying it's definitively  scum. I'm saying it's convenient. Just like WFS claim seemed off and was convenient last game, this one seems really similar as the first claim.

My biggest problem with him is early game behavior and how defensive he got.

Add that in to the portion about him stating that role had been in another game recently and trying to justify the claim. It reads me wrong. 

Who said anything about a 1x Cop?

Is it not believable for Survivor to be a fake show claim? Luna gave you the main character in Invincible mafia. Also if one mafia uses the fake char and one uses the fake role, 2/3 of them get to fake claim.

He has heat. Let's say they lawyer him, or he is a Godfather. What way do you catch him if they don't have him kill.

If we accept his claim at face value, and he is scum. He can absolutely ride this to the end.

All I am saying with is IIOA is not the way you address him. Does the role make sense with the character, absolutely. If there is a fake claim or fake role involved in this, it skews the game.

It is not AI in any circumstance and is a reasonably safe claim with very little counter play to catch if he is lying. That is not saying we have to lynch him or he is scum, but that this is a perfect claim to just do nothing the entire game and be safe. Especially if a good scum player came up with it or at least a portion of it. 

His response to this pressure was:

• Full claim
  
• Becoming defensive
  
• Not engage until pressured
  

You're referring to the show, right? The role is soldier and I've gotten them confused since there's another role called survivor.

The main problem is like I mentioned above. If there are cop altering roles. God father, lawyer, bus driver, redirector, whatever all the possible roles are. That he is not confirmable. Nothing we do will validate him. He can’t be tracked. Can’t be watched. Can’t have that role last game where a pm Is given to someone. As scum, dude can just sit there until he needs to kill and coast. 

Doesn’t mean he is scum but just pointing out the issue with that claim. It’s so obscure and it was given as the first claim of the game 

Past the role or character. His behavior is just inherently scummy. I really really wana iso him 

I think Earth could have fought harder to keep his role secret at least. Claiming Survivor as the show may have been enough by itself.

I can give you a TLDR, but you're gonna need a TLDR for the TLDR

Speak for yourself. I got it wrong already 

That's the entire point of the soldier!!! To save the town if we can't win otherwise.

Soldier is an obscure role, and claiming it completely defeats the role's utility.

We're really active without your input for once, and now you're complaining about us being too active?

If Mikal will get off my ass and stop tunneling me, I am Survivor. I am the Soldier. Survivor is a show with 48 seasons all about surviving physical and mental challenges to the end. If I am the last surviving town member, town wins automatically. 

Back to Wylted

I felt his vote on Moozer was opportunistic. Sure, I had a reason, but that doesn’t mean he needed to join in.

And finally let’s talk about what I’m NOT seeing from Wylted. Behavioral thoughts, not even a blurb about it. In past town games of his, I’ve seen him give quick thoughts on small things about other behavior- sometimes it seems like he’s trying to insta-solve, other times it’s just reaction baiting. None of that to speak of here.

As Savant and I have already noted, Austin has shown up late at least three times and been town each time. This really isn't unusual for him, even if it's a bit annoying.

Whiteflame's reads seem very... noncommittal? Lots of null players and no strong reads. I don't particularly like that.