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@Wylted
I don't think badger puts much thought into the game. Why does that come across as scummy?
The bandwagon on you for was shoddy to begin with, while he believes he is being tunneled is particularly interesting is it not? And the switch to chris without him even explaining why he voted you in the first place or what changed? None of that marks you as odd?
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@badger
I'm not being defensive. I just don't get your questions.
They aren't complicated questions though lol. "Why are you annoyed at me" and "why do you think I'm tunneling" are soft balls IMO.
Why else would you vote me except for a claim? Or to lynch me?
I voted you for pressure, and there was a gut tell to that first read. I am trying to figure out your thought processes, and figure out a reason to come to a conclusion that you are town. I don't need a claim to do that, and I haven't yet pursued a lynch on you. Vote's are needed for pressure and a sense of urgency, which is why I am keeping it on you. Dodging questions doesn't allieviate the suspicion though.
I don't scumread you. I just think you're tunneling and that my time would be better spent engaging with others.
You haven't explained why you think I am tunneling. You can engage with others while you engage with me can you not?
None of them are scumreads. Townreads are way easier to take in this game.
I agree but you said that was your pool for scum?
What changed between your vote for wylted to chris?
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@badger
VTL Wylted
Oof this is really scummy.
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@badger
I'm sorry TUF, but I'm not arguing this with you. It's my read and that's the only way it has any bearing on the game. You'll do what you'll do.
No one is trying to argue with you. The fact that you are taking it to that is just more evidence of defensiveness. I am asking you questions and you aren't answering them, or are answering them in ways that make no sense.
I want whiteflame active tbh. So far my pool for scum is Wylted, Earth, Poly, maybe Chris.
That's a lot of scum reads. They can't all be scum.
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@badger
I think you're still playing last game. It's common enough. I'll be reminding myself of that 100 times when reading whiteflame when he gets active.
What specifically about my behavior last game bears any resemblance to this game here? Especially when I barely interacted with you in this one, and you mentioned I was close to tunneling you in this one?
I'm not being defensive. These are my reads. If they annoy me, that's another thing lol.
No you are not really explaining your reads though. You make statements and when questioned about them backpedal or give a vague reply. Two times at least now.
First when I asked you why I was annoying you, you backpedal and say your not annoyed at me and that it has something to do with and poly. When I question what that has to do with me you say it's because you don't want to claim. I ask you where I asked you to claim, no answer. You dodged here which is defensive.
Second time you did it was just now when I asked you why you thought I was tunneling you and you gave a vague answer saying I wasn't tunneling you but won't explain now what you meant by that.
So you are kind of all over the place and are very bad at explaining why you are all over the place. My gut and feeling is that avoidance is a low key hope you are building to me dropping the situation and stopping in pursuing it, and you in general. Or just ceasing communication on the matter and hoping someone else gets the spotlight. I don't know, I am still looking for a reason to town read you. The day is young but I am not seeing it yet.
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@badger
You and I were the hammer, and whiteflame hammered you. I do think this is what you're up to tbh and I don't think there's much need of proving it, except that it is my read currently.
I was never lynched AKA "hammered" I was vigged. I am assuming that what you meant. Terminology for hammer means the person who places the last lynch vote thus killing them is a hammer.
And I don't think you are being very clear on what you think I am doing. You seem to be implying things but when asked about them your answers are all over the place, which pings a bit defensive. Can you be a bit clearer in what you are saying?
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Current Mafia:
ILikePie5 - Ancient Roman Battles Mafia
Signups:
In the Hopper:
Lunatic- TUF villains (No fake claims)
Wylted-
Earth - Fire Emblem
Supa -
On Hold
Virtuoso, PressF4Respect, RM, BearMan, That1User, Elminster, Speed, Danielle, Bullish
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@badger
Maybe. But this DP is a mirror of our final DP in the last game. It reads as a dick measuring contest tbh, only with town confidence this time. He was lynched over me, now he's putting it back on me. That reads like townie posturing to me. It's extracurricular agenda, if you get me.
I am confused, are you talking about me here? I wasn't lynched in the last game and I barely interacted with you in that game, especially in dp3, much less measured dicks.
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@Wylted
Oro is doing too much theme analysis. If he is town it is helping scum too much. Behavior reads as slightly scummy, since most town players would wait for theme analysis until scum is backed into a corner with claims.
I agree the theme analysis doesn't do much for us here, especially with the admittance of a potential fake character and pie's notoriety for complex splits, but in oro's defense I think he tends to put a lot of effort into themes he's interested. Occasionally he even guesses splits correctly, though I think more often than not he misses the mark with them.
The only thing is kind of null for me, but I do notice a tendancy of lurking when he is scum. He has other tells I am looking out for as well but nothing has stood out to me thus far.
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@badger
Tunneling is the other big towntell, like TUF is doing here.
Why do you classify this as tunneling?
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@badger
It's because I shouldn't claim, and I'm pretty sure Chris shouldn't claim eithers, and that's our votes currently. There's no path of least resistance here that ends up in anything good.
Oh I wasn't asking for a claim though
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@badger
Not really at you, you're playing the game. But Chris' vote is the worst possible vote.The vote on Earth is the only good one, and Poly's sus af too.
Hmm none of this explains why you were starting to get annoyed by me lol
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@badger
I'm on that list.I really don't think it's TUF, but he's starting to annoy me now tbh. I see this going wrong as could be with Chris' vote too.
Why are you annoyed?
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My big booty boudicca butt is tingling over badger. I smell something with him but im not sure watling is up with him. We will see as things progress I am sure. But he hasn't really alleviated my suspicions by aacting non chalant to them lol
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@Vader
I don't believe it's appropriate to scum read people based off of personal behaviors unless it's repeatedly brought up
I am not scum reading a personal behavior, I am wifoming about intentions ofa behavior (drinking) based on a what I myself similarly do while drunk. Town don't need to worry about slipping the same way mafia do.
Not a fan of doing mod pysch as a read to scum read someone. What you said is interesting about Pie, but I don't put enough warrant on it to get the ball rolling. I think his avert confidence with drlebronski being town is strange to a degree in my opinion is interesting and I think that's also noteable
It's an early day phase 1 read that I said was mostly gut based. To be frank it's equally a reaction test. I say that because I think he knows it is too which seems to be why he is trying to deflect or change topic away from it. I am not acting as if it's hard hitting analysis. Many chickens out of many feathers here. I do think there is something to the mod psyche thing, I wouldn't convict anyone over it but it is supplemental to my theory that he didn't want to drunk post because he was worried about slipping.
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@oromagi
Without revealing your battles, I would like to know if anybody's battle is NOT on this list:
Not on the list homie.
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I'll be looking for certain behaviors with oro. So far I am feeling more town vibes but it is very early.
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@oromagi
Fair or no, I agree that everybody who comes to table with an excuse loses a few points on the town-o-meter. It is just reality that scum wants to be less active and wants to give that inactivity a reason up front to seem less suspicious.So far, thats-whiteflame- wedding, hangoverbadger-Drunk*earth- sickmisterchris-work
fix'ed
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@badger
Out of Game Influence. I think it's kinda bullshit tbh. People should be allowed to lie about whatever they want. it's all still lies.I was sure we had it here too back in the day.
Oh sure, Out of Game Influence is bullshit. Most the time it's wrong too. I won't deny any of that. Making all the chickens out of all the feathers.
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@badger
No I was very drunk lol. Maybe that's the lie you picked up on.I did get vaccinated also though.
MMM I get worried about scum slipping when drunk too, I would have dipped as well. Don't blame ya
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@badger
The first bit of that is complete nonsense. I was hammered drunk lol. I tried to read a bit and give up.
I thought you said you just felt hammered drunk because of the vaccine!
I like the thinking to the second part but it's also incorrect. I could make my arguments here or meta the game also, but I think it's in bad faith.Either way, it's a wrong pressure.
Come on just admit it, you think it's good thinking because it actually happened. Right?!
I joined this game to redeem myself and made my stipulations to Pie about that. Now you can read that as lie or not, maybe it's OGI but you just leveraged OGI against me. I think it's fair.
Hey don't bring the Office of Geographic Information into this, this is between town and mafia buddy!
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I am going to get the ball rolling with a read right off the bat. MAking a bit of a mountain out of a molehill, none of these arguments are hard hitting analysis, mostly gut, but we've got to start somewhere and I actually feel pretty good about this one so far.
VTL badger.
This one's off to a livelier start. I got the Moderna vaccine today and I'm experiencing strange drunk-like side effects, as if I've ten beers drank, so I'll not be contributing much tonight. So far I believe that I am not mafia, but I can't be certain I read my role right.
Badger's first post already givesme red flags because he is outlining an excuse for him not to post based on his perception that his state of being will inhibited as if he were drunk. And it's not that I don't believe him that he feels drunk or whatever, it's the opposite. I do believe him and this sounds like something I have said in the past when drunk as mafia. Truth is when your town, you have a lot less reason to care about slipping when drunk then when you are mafia. I do post and often say some ridiculous goofy shit as town, but when I am town I am less focused on what others think of me and more focused on catching scum, so I don't really think about my drunken state as much at the time. But when I am mafia I know to stay far away from the game.
So already my warning flag is tripped up a bit here.
My second argument is much much worse for convincing the masses but my gut feels strongly about it; I think mod psyche plays a bit of a role here too. Badger is a returning player who pie would have to be unfamiliar, and I feel like pie would want to see from a mods perspective how badger plays as scum. I am sure he will claim everything is randomized, and I wouldn't go as far as to call him a liar or anything, but if he were to tweak badger into the scum team would it really take away the randomization from the rest of the players? Or you could always do the ol' randomize the list until the person you want end up in the scum slot. Regardless. I think there is incentive to see how badger plays and acts as scum, and pie is someone I think would be deeply interested in pursuing that avenue here as a mod. We don't know how many games we will get badger for, might as well see what he has as a scum player while we got him. Or at least I can see myself maybe doing that if I were mod here. We are making all the chickens out of all the feathers here.
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@oromagi
have you visited your page recently? The format was updated last week.
I had not. That is interesting 0.o
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@whiteflame
Pretty sure the answer to both of those is that I’m a moderator now.
ah congrats didnt know that
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@whiteflame
why is your profile red and if you visit your page its like all weird
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@DebateArt.com
If to be honest, I didn't understand the question, could you please provide some example of what those tentative time lines are? I've never heard this term before.
Rephrase: Do you have a guess for when the group messaging will be complete?
But bluntly put, Patreon money will never be enough to hire an additional developer, for example. I could change the priorities of the features according to the donations, and most likely the extra money would go into advertising the site.
good to know.
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@DebateArt.com
The website is still actively developed, just not exactly fast considering that I have a daily work and unfortunately have only a couple of free hours in the evenings.
I understand the issue with not having enough time. If you don't have time, you don't have time not much more to it than that. The site is free and a personal project you chose to do of your own volition, which we are greatful. I think the idea of the patreon is great, I am more just curious if you had like higher tiers other than the 3 dollars a month one if that would incentivize maybe a deeper interest in putting more of your valuale time into some of these developments?
For example, in the last 2-3 months, I've fixed a bunch of glitches on the forum, made it much better optimised for mobile users and made some changes to the way things work. After that, I worked on the auth system, same stuff here, mobile and design optimisations and the most important one was adding invisible Google 3 captcha, to make it harder on bots. Also not super exciting feature, but quite needed. Now I am working on the profile pages, which don't even have a mobile version at all. You can check the main profile page here and see a new design, which is not only mobile optimised and better looking, but will also allow users to upload "wallpapers" or "banners", whatever they are called.
I am aware that you do put a lot of effort into fixng bugs. Some of those other features are pretty nifty as well, specifically having wallpapers and backgrounds, I always loved doing that on myspace back when it was big.
When it comes to the group messages, believe me or not, I already have the code for that, but my idea was to first clean up the office space first: remove all those sections like "My debates" and "My forum topics" and "My questions" and move all of them to the profile pages, so all this info is in one place. And after I'd refactor the activities section, to make it much better and properly structured, I was planning to steal some ideas from GitHub, and of course the chat, make it mobile friendly and add group messages.
It is good to know the code is ready for group messaging! That is one of the core features this website was missing in my opinion that DDO had. It will make mafia games much easier as well, and coordinating group events that don't neccesitate forums. Do you by chance have a tenative time line for the group messaging system being implemented or are you playing it by ear?
So the bottom line is that it's still very actively developed and Patreon is there not only to cover the hosting costs, but also to see that all this effort is appreciated at least by a few people ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Coming from DDO where there was literally no effort put into development for several years, I can say I am very greatful for the time and effort. It's good to know that there are still developments being worked on and not being maintained. I hope this forum didn't come across as me being ungrateful for any of it. On the contrary I am trying to say I'd be willing to pay more money to reward such efforts as long as it seemed there was a significant effort being made into developments from the patreon costs.
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@ILikePie5
I mean if you want me to play I would just take into consideration that you might not want to give me a time important role because those three days I usually barely check the game so if you are waiting on a night action it will be my fault
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@Vader
Simple site updates like the widely requested group messaging system would be enough to satisfy me
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Not sure my schedule really works for mafia anymore since theres three days I cant play or contribute. I think I might need to opt out this one pie. sorry man.
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Is this starting like wednesday? I think I need to opt out, I dont wanna miss most of dp1. I wont be active wed-fri
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It does say you get this with the level 1 subscription, but I am not sure I have actually seen it at work.
"Faster development of the new features and fixes for the existing ones."
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Hi, I am making this forum in hopes that (was it Michael?) the owner of the website can see this and answer some questions.
I think you have a great idea with the website, and the patreon is also a good idea. I have donated myself a few times to the patreon, but have stopped because it seems like the sole purpose of the patreon is to just float hosting costs. How interested would you be in making useful updates to the website based on member suggestions? If this was the case I would be a lot more willing to donate more consistently to the site if I thought something was being done to improve the site rather than just maintain it's existence. I can't speak for others but I'd guess you would get more people willing to donate to the patreon.
One update I would like to see and feel like wouldn't be crazy expensive or hard to implement would be group messages, among other things.
Anyways, I just wanted to put it out there that I think you could probably not only make money for server costs but also make a little extra on the side if you were to implement community suggestions once in a while with the patreon page. Let me know what you think.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Lesson one: Lunatic is always scum.
Speedrace*
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@ILikePie5
Supa’s games are always this way sadly
I've played in more of his bad games then good ones but I feel like he's had a couple ones that I felt were balanced. I couldn't name them off the top of my head though. I think I liked naruto.
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@badger
I mean yeah it was townsided either way, but you guys lost by theme anyway.
I wouldn't rely too heavily on that in future games though. Mods frequently fvck with us by either giving mafia main characters as fake claims, or inverse the theme split. This was one of those rare games where that didn't happen, but usually relying on thematic analysis is pretty tricky til mid game when you have flips enough to kind of make determinations with that logic.
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@ILikePie5
Mafia should’ve had a roleblocker lol
Oh hell yeah, even if we had a counter to the vig I wouldnt feel as if I wasted my time as much
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@badger
Town shooting two mafia in an 8 player game... I can't argue or wifom my way out of a vig shot lol. I would have been okay with maybe a 1x vig but even that is pretty imbalanced since we don't really have a counter to it.
If you take logical deduction out of a game and make it reliant on night actions the game inevitably becomes a boring waste of time. Part of the reason these other sites are more succesful in activity. Mafia universe and mafia scum do not rely on powre roles. It's pretty behavior reliant. Dart hosts rarely use vanillas these days and if they do your lucky to see like 1
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Balance was whack as shit. The vig and the bullet proof combo in an 8 player game is actually insane. But GG
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@Earth
Wait has Lunatic full claimed? That doesn't really make sense. I mean, why do you need your role to catch mafia when its a 1/3 chance? And its PoE me? What? So your role was ultimately pointless.
Its not pointless. If someone is being lynched I can overturn it before supa posts the final vote count... We could have c aught scum if one tried to quick hammer
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I don't have time for this unfortunately. Wed-friday are my worst days for mafia. But I am the governor and can overturn the lynch of any player but myself. I was hoping to use my role to catch scum if they tried to quick hammer which is why I was saying claiming kind of hampers that.
Justification is basically that I am a fair leader who is protective of those he cares about and dis-likes killing.
I think earth is the last scum by POE.
vtl earth.
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@whiteflame
Honestly, I have a harder time believing it’s Earth. Can’t see a way by which Alphonse wouldn’t be in this game along with his brother, who we already know was in this game. It’s possible that he got pruned in the process of bringing the numbers down, but I think the likelihood of that is lower than with either Hohenheim or Armstrong. Maybe I’m too focused on theme here, but that’s how I see it.
I wouldn't clear him based on his character alone. That would be like clearing badger for claiming cop. chances are good fake role claims or characters were given. It would suck to lose a game to something like that
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Tbh a no lynch here isnt exactly the end of the world, but if we can lynch scum this day phase that would be optimal
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@badger
Does Ninja bypass a bodyguard?
Ninja should just bypass watcher or tracker reports
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