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YouTube's advertisers pulled out because PewDiePie paid Indians on Fiver to hold up "death to all J***", Twitch with the prominence of hot tub streams made an entire separate category for it (even though the hot tub streams is pretty much sexual content and they will have to eventually make a stance on it or lose advertisers).I think you are bogged down by the debate title. If you go by any other really popular site they did tend to move into the family friendly area by promoting family friendly content and removing controversial stuff. You can have debates outside of controversial topics, now have things gone to far or will they get to a point maybe but a businesses sole responsibly is making a profit.I don't know about debate.org's history which is why I didn't comment on it.
I am not sure I would say "bogged down by the debate title" is a good argument here. It being a debate site is what should make it unique right? Otherwise why not do our social networking elsewhere, like on facebook? I think the whole appeal of a site like this is to argue controversial opinions, and to get vindication for a stance you believe in, or see if that stance is widely unpopular.
Also I am aware of the pewdiepie debocle, and had a lot of opinions about that at the time. But in the end companies like youtube and twitch major faults rely more in how they decide to ban some stuff and let other stuff slide. Like youtube is banning the guy who does the disney voices because of couple of his videos have swear words in it, but the dude who was feeding to puppies to pythons on youtube went unbanned... Twitch honestly does a lot of the same stuff.
Regardless these debate communities really shouldn't even be in the same category as these companies, as the populations are much much smaller. If you want site growth on an already small website, why restrict the population further by enabling strict rules? I think Laissez faire moderation is the best type of moderation for site of this size. With companies like youtube and twitch I can at least take their unfair bans with a grain of salt knowing they probably didn't individually review the issue as deeply given they are probably constantly dealing with reports on a much larger scale.
By making an account you accept the terms the site lays out. You can of course protest and such but the rules are the rules. Even if they are given out inconsistently, too long or have little or no impact.
I mean I am only exorcising my freedom of speach and offering different alternatives that I think would help the site better. I am not denying the rules exist, but reccomending a change I feel will be productive for the website.
There doesn't have to be a good enough reason for rules to exist, they just need to be better than the other options. No rules will give them legal trouble and a bad image.
I am not suggesting no rules, I am suggesting less restriction and more discretion in applying them. The rules also say the mods have that ability.
The moderators retain the authority to interpret and apply all policies in the best interests of the site and users therein. In most cases, a “reasonable person” standard will be utilized.
Your suggestion could be entirely correct or completely missing the point. It doesn't matter because you have to convince the moderators and owners. If you can't convince them you should drop it because I don't think you will get anything out of it unless you have become more persuasive.
This whole thread is an appeal to the moderators and owners. I hoped by making a thread I could convince them. It's why I will continue to respond to people here, if it brings attention. I did "drop" it months ago, but since you are responding to me now, I'll happily re-engage the conversation. I highly doubt the mods are reading this, but in the off chance they are, maybe I can help change their mind.
I think in some cases cancel culture has gone too far but in other cases it is done well. This doesn't really change that cancel culture is a thing. I don't think it is fair for DA to take on responsibility for people not being able to have controversial topics. The blowback will lead to death threats, maybe doxxing and if big enough will pretty much be with them for the rest of their life. If DA wanted to have a strong stance on this stuff that would be cool but asking them puts them in jeopardy and I don't think they really want that hassle in their life.
I think you are using the slippery slope fallacy here quite a bit too much, and assuming an outcome based on a circumstance that hasn't occured because it isn't allowed to. Regardless, issues of doxxing and death threats can be dealt with as they happen. That's when the bans should happen, not pre banning people because you are afraid of the blowback of their controversial opinion. That's just an easy excuse to silence people's controversial opinions. As far as giving the mods a "hassle" in real life, I guarantee you taking a laissez faire style to modding decreases the hassle and stress of the job. They would have to deal with less people like me complaining about the bans, that's for sure ;-)
TBH Airmax has told me that his job got a whole lot easier when he started modding this way. When he first started as a mod on DDO he was much more strict, and it really didn't make things easier. Also it's not like he stopped banning people for death threats and doxxing.
I think interacting with debate websites gives unfair way of how things are. Majority of people don't really change their values, they stay the same even after counter-arguments whichever way it was given to them. I am lucky debating has changed me but I can't say the same for the people around me. My two parents are religious, my 3 siblings are religious and all of my cousins are religious. Even in my school I found like 6ish people who weren't religious. Now this doesn't mean people can't change their mind but it will require a lot of effort and understanding what kind of person they are.
Human nature makes us pretty stubborn. But there are many people who change their opinions over the course of getting beaten in debates, or seeing different arguments. You are also a case in point here it seems. Whether or not the majority of people's stances end up changing or not isn't really the point, but why deprive people the chance?
I think the start was boring and the ending was trash given what the sequel looked like. The middle was the best part and I only appreciated the guts' theme outside the anime.
To be honset I only liked the 90's version of the golden age arc. Literally everything else was crap, but I fell in love with that season.
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@TheRealNihilist
If you care about growth you ban wylted.
Dis-agree. Controversy is good and healthy for a debate site. Case in point, Debate.org. There were lots of controversial individuals there, but the site thrived until the spam bots came.
If you care about upholding the rules you ban wylted.
I've already pointed out multiple times that the "rules" are pretty flimsy. The mods use the site "rules" as an exccuse to play indifferent to making hard decisions, but the rules themselves say mods can enforce bans at their discretion anyway. Rules shouldn't be respected just because they are rules, there has to be good enough reason for those rules to exist. Since mods can use discretion, I am suggesting a better way to mod that doesn't hurt site population. Also bans are usually wayyyy too long here for things that are trivial at best.
Even if I agree this isn't illegal, it will bring about a bad image to this site. I think it is fair for sites to care about longevity even though it might go against what the site is about. It's a debating platform but it also works to provide users a worth-while service, having this baggage turns majority of people away. Competitors and news sites can also weaponise a brave stance on free speech.
I don't think the current state of this website's activity supports your theory about activity. Controversial opinions bring more activity. Why come to a debate site if you expect every one to have happy go lucky opinons that coincide with yours? The controversial topics on debate.org were some of the most poular threads they had. An idea shouldn't be banned because it is controversial. Provide a better reason then them for why that idea is bad, then you fulfill the nature and idea of the debate website.
Hopefully I showed you the other side or maybe think about it. I don't think I will respond, see that as I forgot or what you said doesn't influence me enough to make a response. That can be you missed the point or even if I answered what you said it is unlikely for you to see the other side.
I definitely understand the other side here, but I think it stems mostly from a new age sense of "you can't say that, it's offensive!". I think the world was a better time when comedians could make light of controversial topics wihtout getting witch burned, or people could go to a debate site with a controversial opinion and not get banned for it. Maybe they would be more likely to change their views on things. I was a right wing religious nut when I joined debate.org. Getting schooled argumentatively changed a lot of my ideas and opinions. If I was banned or silence from debate.org I'd probably still be there.
I really like this theme, shame that the dude died. :(
Agreed, it was an amazing show and the soundtrack was awesome, especially the one from the 90's adaptation.
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@warren42
How the hell do you regularly play on this site and keep up lol? Or is it just the championship games that are this big?
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Well, after 4000 posts, my team (town) won. I doubt I'll progress further in this but I am glad all my town reads were right and I was on the wagon of 2/3 scum that game.
The players on that site are pretty dang good.
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@Bullish
Do you think it would be good to use the generally accepted terms neighbor/masons? or at least preemptively clarify if your definition differs significantly from generally accepted definitions?
Quite frequently when I mod I do clarify this, danielle had copied and pasting my exact wording in her sign up threads for a while also clarifying that she does this. I assume most people who play in my games know I abide by a standard that generally encourages people to focus on behaviors instead of roles. Role experimentation, and changes is something I and many mods have done. That said, I still have seen many mafia masons in my time playing. I wasn't the person who invented that, and considering your history with the game is nearly as lengthy as mine and stems from the same website, I am rather surprises at your surprise at the inclusion of this role.
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@Bullish
So why is it okay to change the definition for "popular" and not for other roles? I think your argument that masons have to be town is semantics. The role functions completely differently than innocent child, as its primary purpose is communicative which shouldn't be alignment indicative. It's ironic also that RM is sucking you off here also considering he seemingly shares the same philosophy that behavior should trump role confirmation, as my entire role in his game was designed to make me look town.
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Current Mafia:
Signups:
Crocodile - Death Note
In the Hopper:
Danielle
ILikePie5 - Ancient Roman Battles Mafia
Bullish - special mechanics
Lunatic
On Hold
Virtuoso, PressF4Respect, RM, BearMan, That1User, Elminster, Speed, Earth
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@whiteflame
Don't blame you for feeling that way. Not sure if this one's going to happen, but hopefully things will pick up with whatever game we do next.
Maybe it will pick up in a few months. I'll keep an eye on things
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As much as I love the theme, I am too dis-appointed in the state of mafia right now to want to play any games. If this game goes anything like the last two, which I think it probably will, it will be inactive, boring, very little effort will be made, etc.
Speedrace posts like twice a game these days, supa is always too busy, Pie tries but will probably just die early or he'll be mafia, etc. idk what's going on with mafia rn but it's sad.
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@RationalMadman
Of course he does, it's exactly what the difference is between a neighborizer and a mason.
According to who lol
Was Bullish a townsided mason or a townsided jailkeeper when he died?
He was a jailkeeper. He never had any confusion about his role either, he was submitting his jailkeeps every night after he was recruited. You are the only one that seems so confused here. Even your attempt to wagon bullishes minor complaint seems to have backfired, since you don't seem to have understood what is argument was, but wanted to get back at me for telling you that you balanced your game around theme lol.
It's rich.
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@RationalMadman
A mafia-affiliated Mason is a Yakuza that doesn't die to convert.
No. If it were I would have explained that in the role mechanics. Not even bullish thinks that lol. You are pulling stuff out of your @ss now.
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@RationalMadman
Bullish is correct
No actually, he is not. Mods on DDO/DART have changed affiliation for commonly known roles since I've played the game. He himself has played in many of my own games where I've done this. He more than anyone should know better than to assume that something like mason is always town.
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@RationalMadman
Neighborizer isn't the same as Mason.
So? You are just repeating what bullish said, but this actually doesn't have anything to do with the argument you just made. It also doesn't address my response to him. You are all over the place here buddy.
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@RationalMadman
You knew what the theme was, you're scum and can interpolate other information vs the searches to asertain what isn't vs is a viable theme.
Mafia were not told what the theme split was, neither was town. Mafia were told it was not reccomended to claim their real characters, that's literally it.
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@RationalMadman
Someone recruited to scum multiple nights before they died...Flips Town.
Grey parrot wasn't an affiliation changing role. Mason is literally just for communication. You are thinking of a cult recruiter. Also how does that prove your point that this was scum sided, if people you thought were recruited got to stay as town? If anything that would be town sided...
Ability of the Town is why they lasted that long, not balance. You had a planted clear mason onnthe scum team that the Town would confirm as Town unless they voted that person before the converted.
Ability of town? This was an extremely low post count game, and roles are not confirmation of affiliation. Scum reading behavior should always be a priority over "Town confirming roles". If you haven't learned that lesson in mafia yet, then you haven't played enough mafia games.
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@RationalMadman
I'll let them tell you.
I mean my game made it to LYLO and lasted 5 day phases, yours barely made it two lol I hardly think you know much about balance.
Bullish flipping as Town was the biggest mod error.
Bullish isn't allowed to be town?
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@RationalMadman
And people will not blame the mod because it's Lunatic
Blame me for what lol
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@ILikePie5
That said no one really tried theme analysis so it didn't really hurt him in the end.:(I always look into theme for every game I play. Sometimes I find things and sometimes I don’t
Oh I know you figured it out. I was so scared the game was gonna end dp2 when you posted that list in post 32 lol. I knew people wouldn't be that familiar with King so I purposely made the theme pretty easy. A basic google search of each claimed character would tell you which two are not like the others. Mikal said in his PM he claimed his real character because he doubted anyone would research it lol. I know you always try to do research though. When Mike saw you post that he was trying to get quick hammered to end the DP so he could kill you lol.
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@Bullish
Being town is built in to the role mason. The none aff confirmed version is called neighborizer.
Maybe some websites treat it that way. but mods on DART/DDO have always changed what affiliations can have what roles. Town Mason is no more auto town in DDO/DART meta than roleblocker is automatically scum.
Goal of the game should always be to prioritize behavior. Even on mafia scum, mods usually only stick to strict rules like that for newbie games because they are more designed to teach game mechanics.
It's like last game with superstar/innocent child
Pretty different situation. I am okay with changing mechanics of a role. That wasn't even really a role. It was a flavor that could be applied to a role. Technically speaking I was vanilla. I think RM just phrased it superstar, because he was excited how well that sounded with his character.
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@Bullish
bruh scum mason is like scum innocent child
DDO had tons of these though lol. When magic recruited me to the masons inDanielle's recent Riddle mafia from 6 months ago, we were hella sus of each other the whole time.
Role Conf = / = Affil Conf
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@whiteflame
I’m honestly confused. How did Elm know I tracked him?
It was a gambit that paid off based on his suspicion that there would be a tracker. He thought there would be an everynight tracker, though later he ended up guessing it was more likely a JOAT, even before you claimed.
Otherwise, yeah, guess my inexperience with a mafia mason worked against me. Wasn’t expecting that.
Occasionally I'll design games like this where mafia don't have very powerful roles but have roles that are more commonly town aligned, to enforce the idea that behavior should always trump role confirmation.
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As far as Mike calling out the jailkeep and the tracker dp1, he completely pulled that out of his @ss based on a suspicion that he would be tracked since he hammered chris. He happened to be right, and I think that gambit being pulled off right had a lot of people confused lol.
I personally would have seen that and been like "Well we know that mafia have a rolecop then" and would have discounted GP as well. Was a random gambit but really worked well in their favor.
Only mistakes made was mikal hammering misterchris (earth would have taken the fall for it if he had abstaine) and claiming their real characters even after I advised them not to based on the theme being pretty easy to figure out. That said no one really tried theme analysis so it didn't really hurt him in the end. Mike made some pretty good calls after that with night kills and recruiting, etc.
GG's all.
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Vote Count
Earth- 2/2- Whiteflame, greyparrot
Earth was lynched! He was innocent!
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Mafia wins!
Greyparrot was the last one standing.
Theme split was Bachman books vs King books. Pie figured it out, but Mike quick hammered himsel before he could out the information.
Roles: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n5E8UjseLLhs6zWd7aoUMKKNB5iOOcd9B5lHNzoXTtc/edit?usp=sharing
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Dead Players
MisterChris- IT- Odd DP Popular- Town (Lynched DP1)
Elminster- Regulators- Roleblocker- Mafia (Lynched DP2)
iLikePie5- Doctor Sleep- Doctor- Town (Killed NP2)
Speedrace- The Shining- 1x Amnesiac- Town (Lynched DP3)
Supadudz- You are Rose Madder! “I’m really Rosie! And I’m Rosie real! You better believe me, because I am a great big deal!” This book is about a woman who escapes her abusive husband and starts a new life. You are the hider! Each night you may choose a person to hide behind. If that person is targeted for the night kill you will die to. Otherwise you will be unaffected by night actions. You win with the town. (Lynched DP4)
Bullish- You are Misery! This book is about an ex nurse, who kidnaps her favorite author whilst pretending to help him. Annie Wilkes is soon found out to be psychotic and ends up helping and harming her patient equally. You are the Jailkeeper! Each night you can protect a player. Protecting them will also roleblock them in the night phase. You win with the town. (Killed NP4)
Living Players
1. Earth
2. Whiteflame
3. Greyparrot
With 3 players, it takes 2 votes to lynch!
Day Phase ends in 3 days. DP ends at 5/13/21 at 8 pm CST)
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Vote Count
Supadudz- 3/3- whiteflame, bullish, earth
Whiteflame- 1/3- supadudz
Supadudz was lynched! He was innocent! Night actions due within 24 hours.
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@Lissa
Hey there added you on discord, what do I need to do?
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@Greyparrot
Ask role related questions in pm please
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Vote Count
Supadudz- 1/3- whiteflame
Whiteflame- 1/3- supadudz
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@Earth
@Greyparrot
@Vader
@whiteflame
@Bullish
DP4
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Dead Players
MisterChris- IT- Odd DP Popular- Town (Lynched DP1)
Elminster- Regulators- Roleblocker- Mafia (Lynched DP2)
iLikePie5- Doctor Sleep- Doctor- Town (Killed NP2)
Speedrace- You are The Shining, easily one of King’s most known books. This book is honestly pretty terrifying, and has one of the scariest scenes I’ve ever read when Danny enters a tunnel in a frozen playground. Since the hotel basically possesses people, you are the 1x amnesiac. You may select a person in the graveyard and inherit their role. You win with the town. (Lynched DP3)
Living Players
1. Earth
2. Whiteflame
3. Greyparrot
4. Supadudz
5. Bullish
With 5 players, it takes 3 votes to lynch!
Day Phase ends in 3 days. DP ends at 5/13/21 at 12 pm CST)
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Vote Count
Speedrace- 4/4- Bullish, Greyparrot, earth, whiteflame
Speedrace was lynched! He was innocent! Night actions due in 24 hours.
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Vote Count
Speedrace- 2/4- Bullish, Greyparrot
Supadudz- 1/4- whiteflame
Not Voting: Earth, Speedrace, supadudz
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Vote Count
Speedrace- 1/4- Bullish
Supadudz- 1/4- whiteflame
Not Voting: Earth, Speedrace, Greyparrot, supadudz
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Vote Count
Speedrace- 1/4- Bullish
Bullish- 1/4- Supadudz
Supadudz- 1/4- whiteflame
Not Voting: Earth, Speedrace, Greyparrot
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Speedrace- 1/4- Bullish
Earth- 1/4- Supadudz
Supadudz- 1/4- whiteflame
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Vote Count
Speedrace- 2/4- Bullish, whiteflame
Earth- 1/4- Supadudz
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@Earth
@Greyparrot
@Vader
@whiteflame
@Speedrace
dp3
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Dead Players
MisterChris- You are It! An evil clown haunts a small town called “Derry” and kills children every 27 years. At least until a brave group of children finally stand up against Pennywise.This long and exciting novel is easily one of King’s most popular novels. You are the odd day popular townie. On odd day phases you require one extra vote to lynch. You win with the town. (Lynched Day Phase 1)
Elminster- You are the Regulators! This is an intense and rather crazy book filled with constant death and a feeling of inescapable relentlessness from a murderous bunch roaming a previously peaceful neighborhood and mowing down the residents in drive by’s from differently colored vans. It is later revealed that the occurrences are happening from the mind of a young boy named who’s been possessed by a demon named Tak. Tak uses Seth’s favorite T.V. Show “The Regulators” to his advantage by creating real life MotoKops to kill the innocents anytime they attempt to leave their home. You are the Roleblocker, and can prevent a player from using their role each night. You win with the mafia. (Lynched DP2)
iLikePie5- You are Doctor Sleep! This movie is about a nurse with a dark past who helps the elderly pass peacefully. He befriends a young girl named Abra through telepathic powers and assists her in escaping some life sucking vampires called the “True Knot”. You are the doctor, and can protect a person from dying in the night phase. You win with the town. (Killed NP2)
Living Players
1. Earth
2. Whiteflame
3. Greyparrot
4. Supadudz
5. Speedrace
6. Bullish
With 6 players, it takes 4 votes to lynch!
Day Phase ends in 3 days. DP ends at 5/11/21 at 5 pm CST)
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Vote Count
Elminster- 5/5- Whiteflame, Bullish, speed, greyparrot, elminster
Elminser was lynched. He was guilty! Night actions within 24 hours please.
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