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@Mikal
Well they explicitly said they had an innocent not a guilty so if they scum read Casey it’s because of some other context. Meaning that the innocent is likely one of those two. That’s why I don’t know how to read that from you, could be innocent naivety but like as scum you would be hyper aware of that fact and have pointed it out earlier, or it could indicate scum partner that you don’t seem to be factoring them in and are wanting them out of the like light. lol I’m 50/50 on it
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@Mikal
I am not leaving them out? I am saying it's Casey or Me. I know I am town so when Casey flips it confirms me and RM. Last scum is between those 2. What do I need to analyze at that point?
Your post 258 doesn’t seem to consider either of those two as pies potential investigation targets though.
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@Mikal
What am I missing?
Whiteflame and ultra are consistently left out of your every analysis. I can get forgetting about ultra based on his low posting but Whiteflame being forgotten is stunning to me lol.
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@Mikal
Either way if Pie confirms. I know I am town, so casey flipping confirms me and RM. Assuming whether he picked RM or Caseydon't matter at this pointIf he picked RM, it's casey which is why he is only focusing on that poe.
the fact that you keep missing a big part of something in your analysis here is fvcking with me. It either means your town naive, or this person is your scum partner lol.
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I think Casey is probably just scum here and a lot of this is over thinking but yeah literally no reason to rush anything here and it’s good to talk out all the possibilities.
Remember even if Casey flips that doesn’t necessarily mean both scum weren’t in the results. The way RM answered about how his dream works allows for up to both scum to be in the results.
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@WyIted
I don't know then you still get into another WIFOM game. Who is Mason? Who is cop? It's still a mind fuck with open speculation.
I mean yeah. But it still isn’t good to theorize like that publicly. Just something that slightly pings me as scummy, but he has a lot of town sh1t going for him to so I’ll just take it all in context.
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@Mikal
Pie has a guilty on casey
Pretty sure they said they have an innocent not a guilty. I think I know who it is also, though I won’t publicly speculate my theory, just seems obvious based on whose being left out of every POE analysis lol. I think they are scum reading Casey based on some other context.
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@Mikal
POEI think we have enough to end the game if that's actually true. It wont matter
if that was there actual plan why risk foiling it like that, how does that even help town to do that lol
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@Mikal
Want to think more but what I actually think is happening is wylted is not cop. I think Pie is cop and wylted is mason
…. Why would you openly speculate that?
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@WyIted
Yeah pie said you were doctor in the PM. Probably at least one scum team member picked up on it also. No major loss to claim here.
Yeah kind of figured scum would, mentioned that earlier, which is why I wasn’t crazy opposed to claiming.
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@ILikePie5
Ya but you also have to consider that Wylted doesn’t know if I’m town or scum. He could have recruited scum in which case POE is easier for scum to do.
Under the theory he is just scum though, it also makes sense why he never seemed to have any wavering doubt that you were town though…
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Well both pie and Wylted said they are indifferent so I guess I’ll just claim. I am the doctor. My character is is Ulfric the leader of the stormcloaks and the Jarl of wind helm. My justification is basically that after I learned the voice from the greybeards I became disillusioned from the state of the empire and ran off to form the stormcloaks. Since I eventually killed the high king of Skyrim and started a war, I am the doctor because I protected my people with my life.
Night phase one I targeted pie because he is often an early kill and he was claiming to be confirmed with Wylted so I thought there was a high chance scum would have motive to kill him.
There was no night kill last night. So either I protected him or that gamble I referred to earlier happened and pie took the most astronomical guess ever that I was the doctor and targeted him and forfeited the night kill for confirmation. There is technically a 5% chance that happened but again I don’t really but that at all.
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@ILikePie5
Why would the mod randomly say that in our channel?
Like I said, it just makes it a strong scum role since it appears to confirm him, though it technically doesn’t have anything to do with confirming him.
Well I’m only confirmed because of you. Otherwise I could still be in a pool with myself + 1 of myself + Wylted. It’s not really that broken.
Fair but still otherwise scum would be forced to use a night kill on one of you to basically accomplish the same thing, and potentially up to two afterwards which can be argued to be kind of busted because they have to waste so many night kills or risk letting a confirmed player live after killing one while they hunt other PRs.
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@ILikePie5
@Mikal
@WyIted
If all three of you vote yes I’ll go ahead and claim. It’s no biggie if it helps us get a lynch through POE I’ll consider the trade worth it
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@ILikePie5
But what scum investigator explicitly says “XXXX is innocent.” Thats the issue here.
Why is that an issue?
That’s true, but it truly is a bastard role because the mod himself is involved in this. If there’s a scum role where Wylted forces Earth to say certain things like “XXXX is innocent” and “only in the night,” then I will chaulk it up to a bastard role/mod. You have to draw the trust line somewhere in a game of misinformation, otherwise you’re just going in circles. This is my line.
I’m fine with that but if it ends up being true I will laugh and probably point out that maybe we should change our mindset about stuff like that. But for the sake of argument I can accept that most people would probably feel that way and maybe earth would have taken that into account so I can agree to the logic. Also because I don’t remember earth ever really doing anything like that before. It honestly though just feels kind of broken to have two players that can be town confirmed like that from scum’s POV.
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@Mikal
Trying to think out every scenario and a lot of this hinges on RM claiming his character and role off the rip with no fake claims present. Same with wylted
I too give AR a lot of town cred for this, also his relentless and confident pursuit of savant “claiming he knew he was scum” etc. not sure if scum are capable of pretending to be that confident, reminds me of when Wylted did that as town in the last game.
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@Mikal
If you are sure then, you are sure. I won't question it but we should get results from both you and pie soon.
I am not directly opposed to this, but just pointing out I obviously will lose all value to my role as soon as I do. If it helps with the POE and eases people’s minds about pie though I am willing to claim.
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@ILikePie5
A role where scum Wylted forces Earth to say certain things in the channel? That’s the definition of bastard lol
I could see myself as mod making a role like that just to teach the lesson of “behavior over role analysis” but I do see why people feel that way .
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@Mikal
Pie saw a cop result. If Pie is town Wylted it town or we are already cooked. I am not even considering there is some role that gets fake investigation results.
I’m not even suggesting the results could be fake, just that it could be a scum investigator that shares results in a mason PM. Is it really that bastard or out of the question? Because if we are assuming it is and unwilling to consider it otherwise, and he is scum we are giving him the game.
I think it's more likely you result is fucked. Are you for certain, whatever you are reading him off of cannot have been altered?
Mine is more concrete than that and is extremely confirmable. Like i said there is a 5% chance i am wrong, based on pie pulling the craziest scum gambit I’ve ever seen based on the most wild guess that’s ever existed and happened to be right, which the odds of happening are astronomical, but it technically COULD have happened so I say there is a 5% chance that it did, though I don’t fully buy that happened in the slightest.
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@Casey_Risk
I understand the sus on me given that I am in PoE and in AR's dream. I just wish Wylted would be more forthcoming with info here.
That’s why I am asking pie so adamantly if he’s 100% sure here because if there’s some context he is missing, it kind of sucks to blindly trust someone when if we’re wrong I could later say “yeah I might have sensed a whole in that argument if I knew what said argument was”.
On the same hand I am technically asking people to do that with my pie confirmation though so if enough people want it I am willing to claim to make that understood, but I do think the majority would probably agree with me based on my claim that pie is town unless they just straight up thought me and him were the scum team.
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@whiteflame
I guess Earth really wanting to excessively and internally confirm WyIted within the group he recruits? So town has both an excess of investigatives and simultaneously a lot of internal confirmation?
Is there a world where earth could have made a scum role that works this way? I know pie is convinced Wylted is town because results shared in a PM. Is it necessarily bastard though for him to do that? Because I’m not convinced this actually confirms Wylted, but it does make it a really good scum role. Just because I know pie is town doesn’t mean I am willing to accept Wylted is 100% town. I get pies logic but I wouldn’t necessarily call that role bastard either, just strong.
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@whiteflame
I had reason to allow it in DP1 because I felt there was a purpose to it
I too thought this was a gambit to zilch RM from the game lol
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@Mikal
So fine. Casey or RM is scumFine with lynching both
Why does Whiteflame keep being excluded from your Poe?
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@Mikal
What about a Casey Whiteflame team?
That’s my current thoughts based on POE but without knowing wylteds result it makes it hard. Kind of just have to trust those two atm the moment.
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@Mikal
Define how and I’ll drop it.Cus then it’s Casey or RM
the fact that you haven’t picked up on how I know this despite all the hints I’ve dropped mean you are likely town. Because mafia definitely should know how I know pie is town lol.
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@Mikal
I can confirm pie is town. All three of us can’t be scum so you have to either drop that as a scum team or you can think me and pie are paired, but I’m telling you with confidence pie is town.
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If you believe me then you need to believe Wylted. I’m in a PM with him. Earth literally gave the results in the PM last night. That XXX was innocent. There is no fake role/claim that exists where a mod would say that.
Fair enough. I basically know you are town so if Wylted is scum then it’s just bastard modding. Now are you 100% sure it’s Casey over Mikal? I’ll take your word for it if so, I just want you to make sure you have all the pieces of the puzzle since your not sharing the info, obviously I can’t tell you if there’s something your missing. But Im Just hoping you’ve considered all possibilities.
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@whiteflame
I got an absolutely awful night's sleep, so I will catch up on this DP... after I've injected caffeine into my veins and my vision is no longer double.
I feel that homie. I got like three hours yesterday, im ready to collapse. Interested in reading your thoughts though when I get back this evening.
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@Mikal
I agree with this. I think the difference is he publicly stated there would be no fake claims. Yours was off game mechanics “which we just talked past each other and you told me you would not confirm”Misunderstanding. But you didn’t type that in signups.The difference is this is pre game message about game design. So if he can’t confirm what he typed, there is an issue.
Im gonna trust earth on this one. Either way, if mafia got one fake claim, it doesn't impact things drastically. We just can't town confirm people off of character alone is all. Role claims can usually be confirmed in some capacity.
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@WyIted
WTF lol.You guys that beg mods need to stop and it's pretty transparent the goal is manipulation of predefined rules when it happens
You dont remember lol? You were in that pm silly.
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@Mikal
It’s not holding our hands. It changes the game dynamic. If he said there are no fake claims , role or character. It completely alters how you view someone willing to early claimYou operate under his word. None where given and it’s massive town credOr you don’t and it means nothing because fake claims exist.If you post that info and change it without saying. He’s that is definitely bastard moddingI’ll drop it but I want an answer
Lets not just jump to the conclusion he is bastard modding for no reason though. I don't think he's ever had issues with that in the past, he's a fair mod from my memory. Anyways I kind of understand where he was coming from after modding my last game. Normally I am pretty lenient with answering questions, but I was getting a ton of pressure from you in the mafia pm begging me not to answer mharmans questions, which were in my eyes harmless questions that I would normally answer with no problem, but I didn't want to fvck you over so I refrained. Could be the mafia team is pressuring earth in the same way not to answer that, so he is just taking the safe route here.
So I am just going to take him on his word and honor in the sign ups and assume there was no fake claims. Let's be mad at him after the fact if this doesn't hold true, but until then, I am not gonna begrudge him. Also like I said, people got savant lynched quickly when you dropped a time frame on the mass claim, so I think it's likely mafia wanted to shut that sh1t down, which is further evidence that they didn't have fakes prepared.
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out of all the hills to die on… we shouldn’t have to rely upon n the mods holding our hands to scum hunt
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I’m assuming there is no fake claims based on how quickly last day phase got shut down when you started talking about a 6 pm mass claim
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@Mikal
Chill on earth bro mods technically don’t have to tell us sh1t. I think I started the trend about mods giving set up info like that but it used to not be a thing.
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@Mikal
Once during the game target a dead player and get all mod information that was given.
That was literally a fake claim we talked about using in the last game lol
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@Casey_Risk
(sigh)
Casey I know there's not a lot to defend here... but thoughts?
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@WyIted
So if you are wrong here, you would understand being strongly suspected next day phase?
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@WyIted
I have no ideal. This was hoping for trust not expecting it. I think if the information is revealed we would definitely lynch Casey and keep the utility of something while lynching her. If it's revealed we lynch Casey but lose the utility of it.
Is the information like damning damning? Because if not we are giving mikal a free pass here, you too technically.
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@WyIted
I have information that will 100% condemn Casey but I think town should just trust me. I also think I shouldn't reveal my result because it's an innocent and by not revealing yet it protects who I copped innocent from being the NK giving us a confirmed town in DP3.But everyone should trust me when I say that Casey is scum here.
Part of me wants to trust you because pie trusts you and I am fairly confident pie is confirmed town, but with you being on the dreamer results I am a little bit dubious. Tell me if it were me telling you "I think town should just trust me" and roles were reversed what would your reaction be? Just curious, but try to answer that honestly af. If your lying to hype your own argument up I will know.
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@AdaptableRatman
By massclaim.
Wait what? Are we talking about the same thing anymore?
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@AdaptableRatman
And how will we figure that out without character claims?
Common sense.
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@AdaptableRatman
I want Pie to char claim it is essential to plausibly crack the themesplit.
Pie is confirmed town 95% imo. If I ever have to claim or if I die you will know why, but I don't want to waste time getting his claim. I think we focus on getting claims from your dreamer results for now, and figure out who to lynch between mikal, casey, and Wylted. I am not entirely sure what wylted claimed, I'll have to go back and see if he actually claimed or not.
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@AdaptableRatman
I dont expect people to buy it. I do buy it for now.
You are obviously not picking up on something then. I thought and hoped you were smarter but I guess it's going over your head. Oh well.
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@ILikePie5
Casey is scum. I’ll explain why tomorrow. I have to sleep. Got to work tomorrow
It is a scummy role claim. I do think its interesting that mafia did not even try to interupt a claimed dreamers results though.
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@Casey_Risk
Very well. I am Serana, an ancient vampire. Basically, there was an ancient prophecy that vampires could lose their weakness to the sun, but I would have to sacrificed first for it to occur. Therefore, I am the Martyr.
oh my bad, you literally just claimed okay.
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@Casey_Risk
Alright, so a couple things to note. First of all no NK! Always good to see.Second, AR's dream. I don't buy Wylted being scum for a minute, mostly for very obvious reasons. So that means either Mikal or AR is scum. (I guess they tech could be a team and this is a bus, but I don't really buy that, either at this point). Now, I suppose Ratman could be scum and he just came on super strong, super early, obviously buddying me and claiming Dreamer early, and relying on WIFOM and his own audacity to carry him. I just don't think he did, however. I feel like I have to go with Mikal here.If you really did get scum for the third game in a row after coming back here tho, Mikal, then I feel for you lol. Gotta avoid falling victim to the gambler's fallacy tho
I would say out of the three names I'd probably lean the most towards mikal just because some of his logic last day phase was questionable, which as pie pointed out is probably a scum tell. That said I would like claims from you and wylted as well (did wylted already claim? I can't remember).
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@ILikePie5
We received a result, but we will hold off on it until everyone says what they did.
I can say with 95% certainty you are town btw. There is an extremely narrow chance I am wrong, but it literally makes no sense in my head for that narrow chance to be plausible at this point, so not gonna say how yet, but will it probably be clear if I die. So right now you are my top town confirm next to RM.
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